Raag Naiki Kanhra - recommendations?
Vasudev Murthy
Are there any masterpieces out there in this Raag? I only
have two pieces, one by Shruti Sadolikar and the other by
Budhdhadev Dasgupta (Raga Records). Where should I look for
more examples?
Thanks!
Vasudev
--
Vasudev Murthy Any opinions expressed are strictly
mur...@asl.dl.nec.com my own and have nothing to do with
(214) 518-3602 Advanced Switching Lab, NEC America, Inc.
1525 Walnut Hill Lane Irving TX 75038
Jyothi Rengarajan
sing it in concerts very often and there are at least a couple of
recordings, details of which I cannot remember offhand. His rendition is
absolutely sublime, he weaves through the raag with astounding grace and
lyricism. I think he has personalised it for me to the extent that I am
horribly biased when I hear other people singing it ( although I admit
Shruti does a commendable job)! But then again, I have a special place
for Mansoor in general....!
Jyothi
John Campana
I'm afraid this wont be of any help to you Vasu, but the only recs. I
can recommend are not commercial: the Jaipur-Atraulis first of all,
MM, Kishoritai, Mogubai, Kesarbai - all doing "Mero piya". Then there
is Roshanara, Nissar Hussein and Yunus Hussein Khan, son of Agra's
Vilayat H. Khan. If you're stuck, there is a comm. Jasraj rec., I think.
John Campana
Arthur Levine
23:00) is on Chhanda Dhara SNCD 74289. I am listening to it - again -
as I write this. As usual, I find his music sort of "off-putting". I
don't know what it is. He's a seriously popular musician. But for me,
always this undertow of mannerism. It may be that I've heard "tricky"
music from him too many times in public, and that my response to those
live situations, where he seems to be into crowd-pleasing, is
influencing my evaluation of this performance. Actually, it's not bad
at all. And beautifully recorded, with Zakir & Sultan Khan. The other
rags: Adana (16:52), Raga Bhajan (6:36), Bhairavi (16:08).
And Ramesh in particular (and John-ji of course) may notice
the inclusion in the above list of a rag which is , if anything, even
rarer than the elusive Deepak: a rare sighting of Raga Bhajan!! Just
in case you thought that the Gramophone Company of Indian had the
market cornered on sleazy production standards.
Another recording: Kumar Gandharva "Begi yar sai ya"; "Lagi Lagi re
sanwariya" (29:00) CBS Swarashree KG 001. Haven't listened to it in
some time, and don't remember. What do folks think of Kumarji? My
sense is that opinions are sharply divided regarding his music, with
some people thinking that he was a great genius, and others finding
his music contrived and uninteresting. I have a feeling that I tend
towards the former, positive assessment. I think John doesn't like KG
because of the invented rags, in addition to questions about style.
I'd be interested in hearing what people think/feel.
Regards
Art
Murali Shurmat
>Another recording: Kumar Gandharva "Begi yar sai ya"; "Lagi Lagi re
>sanwariya" (29:00) CBS Swarashree KG 001. Haven't listened to it in
>some time, and don't remember. What do folks think of Kumarji? My
>sense is that opinions are sharply divided regarding his music, with
>some people thinking that he was a great genius, and others finding
>his music contrived and uninteresting. I have a feeling that I tend
>towards the former, positive assessment. I think John doesn't like KG
>because of the invented rags, in addition to questions about style.
>I'd be interested in hearing what people think/feel.
well, the pieces you have quoted are on the other side of the LP and in
multani. 'Naina nahin maane' in vilambit ek taal and 'aaye mandrarwa'
drut teentaal I think are the Nayaki Kanada pieces.
Murali
.
Murali Shurmat
Jyothi Rengarajan
I am almost sure that the 'nahin mane' bandish is in Bhoopali. I have a
recording of Pt K G Ginde singing this composition --but perhaps a
similar nayaki kanhra exists as well.
About Kumar Gandharva. I found it a bit difficult to like his music
initially because of his voice. It is not the most melodious and having
only one lung probably didn't help in improving timbre. However, as I
listened more, I found him to be musically enthralling. The bhava in his
voice in a simple Nirguni bhajan is moving, to say the least. He lends
such a distinctive style to the bhajans that hearing anybody else sing
them is somehow never the same. In general, his meditative style and
almost austere development of the raag appeals to me. What doesn't are
the harsher aspects of his music, especially in the upper ranges when he
sometimes seems to cackle.
Overall, I find him to be considerably better live than in recordings.
His voice, in my opinion, apart from not being his strong point, is not
very conducive to recording. This holds true for Pt. K G Ginde as well.
jyothi
John Campana
>The Roshanara Begum perf. is on EMI Pakistan. Jasraj-ji's perf. (ca.
>23:00) is on Chhanda Dhara SNCD 74289. I am listening to it - again -
>as I write this. As usual, I find his music sort of "off-putting". I
>don't know what it is. He's a seriously popular musician. But for me,
>always this undertow of mannerism. It may be that I've heard "tricky"
>music from him too many times in public, and that my response to those
>live situations, where he seems to be into crowd-pleasing, is
>influencing my evaluation of this performance. Actually, it's not bad
>at all. And beautifully recorded, with Zakir & Sultan Khan. The other
>rags: Adana (16:52), Raga Bhajan (6:36), Bhairavi (16:08).
I agree with you re Jasraj-ji, but gee, another recording of Adana. Is
this a different one than the usual "MAtA KAli"? Wow, RAg Bhajan -- it
must be set to ati vilambit Keherwa.
> And Ramesh in particular (and John-ji of course) may notice
>the inclusion in the above list of a rag which is , if anything, even
>rarer than the elusive Deepak: a rare sighting of Raga Bhajan!! Just
>in case you thought that the Gramophone Company of Indian had the
>market cornered on sleazy production standards.
>
>Another recording: Kumar Gandharva "Begi yar sai ya"; "Lagi Lagi re
>sanwariya" (29:00) CBS Swarashree KG 001. Haven't listened to it in
>some time, and don't remember. What do folks think of Kumarji? My
>sense is that opinions are sharply divided regarding his music, with
>some people thinking that he was a great genius, and others finding
>his music contrived and uninteresting. I have a feeling that I tend
>towards the former, positive assessment. I think John doesn't like KG
>because of the invented rags, in addition to questions about style.
>I'd be interested in hearing what people think/feel.
>
>Regards
>
>Art
Although I recognize the genius of Kumar-ji, I'm afraid I belong to
the 50% who are wahed by his music. Invented rAgs, contrary to what
you think I think, are interesting, to say the least, if many times
too derivative and blatant palimsests. You of course know of the
RAgKosh project Corvin and I are undertaking with respect to invented
rAgs. We are starting with the creations of Ust. Ali Akbar Khan, since
we feel they should be documented. Corvin will post more on this. I
hope I can count on you to document Kumarji's rAgs and perhaps
Amjadji's too.
While I'm at this, I invite submission of invented rAgs from the
netters. So far, our list includes (besides the aforementioned trio,
Nikhil Banerjee, Amir Khan, Vilayat, Imrat, Salamat, et al. Does
anybody know if the rare rAgs the Begum Parveen (Sarang Kauns, for
example) are invented or part of the general repertoire of aprachalit
rAgs? I am also interested in the Bombay branch of the Agra gharana
(Ginde, Bhatt, Kaikini et al), Gunidasses and Ratanjankars and their
inventions and undocumented rAgs. RAg Vihang, for example, is sung by
Dinkar Kaikini, but recently there was a release by Mallikarjun. What
suggest thou Rameshji? Rajan babu?
John Campana
Balu Nadig
gasps of wah wah's from me...
John, I was wondering if Bhimasen Joshi's 'Kalashree' made it to your list
of invented rAgs...
Regards,
Balu Nadig.
John Campana
In article <1993May3.2...@lehman.com> bna...@mbsdev35.shearson.com (Balu Nadig) writes:
>gasps of wah wah's from me...
>
>John, I was wondering if Bhimasen Joshi's 'Kalashree' made it to your list
>of invented rAgs...
>
>Regards,
>
>Balu Nadig.
I'm still having a little problem with that one Balu. Amir Khan Sahib
was also supposed to have sung it. That makes me wonder about
Bhisenji's claim to it. I will have to ask him personally. The fact is
too, that AK's Kalashree is unvariably Kalavati only to my ears. There
is no doubt though concerning the inventor of Marwa-Shree, a bold
attempt at mixing oil and water.
John Campana
K. N. Raghavan
[with regard to Jasraj's nAyaki kAnaDa, adAna, ... recording]
>
>rags: Adana (16:52), Raga Bhajan (6:36), Bhairavi (16:08).
>
> And Ramesh in particular (and John-ji of course) may notice
>the inclusion in the above list of a rag which is , if anything, even
>rarer than the elusive Deepak: a rare sighting of Raga Bhajan!! Just
>in case you thought that the Gramophone Company of Indian had the
>market cornered on sleazy production standards.
Could someone please identify the raga of the bhajan? It sounds like
bhImpalAs to me, but for all I know it could be a differnt raga.
Aside to Art: I was just listening to the Jasraj recording too, and I
find the music sublime except for the aDAna. There is a little too much
showmanship in the aDAna, particularly at the end. This opinion may,
however, be as much due to the subjective fact that I have listened to
other renderings by Jasraj of the aDAna piece but not of the others, as
to any objective evaluation of the recording.
---Raghavan
Rajan Parrikar
<deleted>
>
>Aside to Art: I was just listening to the Jasraj recording too, and I
>find the music sublime except for the aDAna.
Amen! Count me in too as a die-hard Jasraj-phile, his recent alleged
forays into showmanship notwithstanding.
On the topic of showmanship, I think the rot has already set in. With
our North Amrikan fans spinning the "wheels of fortune" before our
Pandits, the inevitable seems to have happened.
Here's an amusing anecdote: Recently, I wrote to the son of
one of the great pandits(dead) of this century requesting some
biographical material on his illustrious father. He wrote back
promptly with the plea "please invite me to America for programs...I'll
send you my resume...."!!!!! And this, coming from a learned,
respected music pandit!
Rajan Parrikar
==============
email: parr...@mimicad.colorado.edu
parr...@spot.colorado.edu
Corvin Russell
North American audiences bear the brunt of responsibility for
the vulgarization of Indian Classical performances. We all know
that most North Indian audiences are pretty atrocious nowadays too.
Corvin
Rajan Parrikar
>Rajan, perish the thought that you should mean to imply that
>North American audiences bear the brunt of responsibility for
>the vulgarization of Indian Classical performances.
Why? Just because it has a ring of truth to it? And
don't try putting words in my mouth.
The implication in my posting was: The yatras in
North America and Europe have turned into cash cows and
are increasingly being viewed by Indian classical
musicians, both established and tyros, as "collection
drives." This isn't a very healthy trend, in my opinion.
If it is, then we shouldn't be complaining about faltering
standards in performances.
>We all know
>that most North Indian audiences are pretty atrocious nowadays too.
>
If you have honest differences of opinion, let's hear them.
Outpourings of knee-jerk, pristine piffle from your
end - I can live with.
Rajanator:-)
=========
Jyothi Rengarajan
I agree that north american concerts have become cash tours with each
musician having whirlwind schedules and often indifferent concerts.
However, from my own experience in Bombay I know that audiences
there are often no better. Several of the big music festivals in the
city have become fashionable as 'ethnic' events where individuals can
flaunt their khadi kurtas and kolapuri chappals. Of course, I do not
imply that everyone who comes to these concerts or that all big concerts
are this way, but certainly the trend in for more glamour. The adulation
is sometimes sickening....and it is sad to see musicians embroiled in
this. And I think this attitude is more prevalent with Hindustani
musicians and within this more so with instrumentalists.
I can fully understand having a profound respect and admiration for
a person and her/his music.....that is only natural, and also
desirable-- but to fling gold chains at Zakir Hussein ( I have seen
this!) drooling over Amjad Ali Khan's changing his kurta during the
intermission, scurrying to touch Pt Ravi Shankar's feet or ooohing and
aaaahing at a particulary noisy Shiv Kumar Sharma-Zakir extravaganza, is
to me highly distasteful. Is this really a way to show one's love for
music, is this in any way dignifying the musician? I think not. I know a
lot of musicians cultivate the fan followings but I think audiences and
to some extent organizers are to blame as well.
It is getting such that I believe the perception among younger,
upcoming artistes is that, in order to be revered and make it in the
music world, one has GOT to cultivate the "temperament" and attitude.
There is a distinct difference in the way Pt Jasraj's disciples behave,
for example, compared to N. Rajam's.
The reasons for the north american concert circuit, increasing
arrogance etc are I think many, and complex. To mention a few:
It is I think increasingly harder for a person to think of being a
professional musician in India as a viable career. However talented, it
is a big risk for anybody. With the tradional guru shishya parampara
phasing out, royal patronage abolished and replaced by negligible
state/institutional funding for musicians, the north american circuit
has become not only lucrative but sometimes obligatory. One of the
reasons why more musicians in the West can opt to devote their lives to
music is because there *are* avenues...symphonies, orchestras,
universities.....you can be in music without being a maestro. You can
make a living.
In India, on the other hand, we cater ONLY to maestros. Granted: the
nature of OUR music is more individualistic etc etc, however, there is
simply not enough support to speak of.
The situation I believe, is extremely grave, the future is not promising.
We also have to ask what we, as a society want. Do we consider our
music and musicians to be a national treasure? If yes, what are we
willing to do to foster this? How are we to ensure a continuum? Is
classical music growing to be increasingly elitist, with less and less
people actually listening, attending concerts? If not enough seem to
feel that it is important, is it still desirable to promote this? If
yes, how? If no, where do such feelings stem from?
Why is music not being taught in schools so that every child may
have the oppurtunity to be exposed? Will a greater cross section of
people grow interested this way?
These are only some of the disturbing questions....many, many more
lurk behind the curtains.
For me, music has been and is, a joyful, exhilarating and enriching,
experience...and almost necessary for existence.....and a lot of these
questions sadden me, anger me, fill me with frustration, dread,
helplessness, but also a desire to do something, at least attempt to, by
discussing it with other music lovers....
What do you all feel about these and related issues?
Jyothi
jr...@andrew.cmu.edu
Dept of Biological Sciences
Carnegie Mellon University
Ramesh Gangolli
>You of course know of the
>RAgKosh project Corvin and I are undertaking with respect to invented
>rAgs. We are starting with the creations of Ust. Ali Akbar Khan, since
>we feel they should be documented. Corvin will post more on this. I
>hope I can count on you to document Kumarji's rAgs and perhaps
>Amjadji's too.
Am looking forward to your postings on this.
>While I'm at this, I invite submission of invented rAgs from the
>netters. So far, our list includes (besides the aforementioned trio,
>Nikhil Banerjee, Amir Khan, Vilayat, Imrat, Salamat, et al. Does
>anybody know if the rare rAgs the Begum Parveen (Sarang Kauns, for
>example) are invented or part of the general repertoire of aprachalit
>rAgs? I am also interested in the Bombay branch of the Agra gharana
>(Ginde, Bhatt, Kaikini et al), Gunidasses and Ratanjankars and their
>inventions and undocumented rAgs. RAg Vihang, for example, is sung by
>Dinkar Kaikini, but recently there was a release by Mallikarjun. What
>suggest thou Rameshji? Rajan babu?
I think I have a pretty complete list of those ragas that the folks of the
Bombay branch of the Agra gharana have composed. Gindeji and Bhatsaab have
scrupulously resisted the new raga bug however, often stating that the
existing ragas offer them sufficient challenges. Ratanjankar introduced
many Karnatak ragas to the north Indian milieu by composing some engaging
pieces in ragas not often performed by northern musicians e. g,
Nata-Bhairavi, Bilahari, Charukeshi, Basant-Mukhari. The last two have
gained in the frequency with which they are played in the thirty+ years
since Ratanjankar composed some pieces in them, but the first two are still
relatively unknown to North Indian audiences. Ratanjankar composed a few
ragas, one of them being Viyoga-Varali, the piece being composed specially
on the occasion when Gindeji left Lucknow, where he had gone assome twenty
five+ years before as a young boy, and where Ratanjankar had looked after
him as his own son. Other persons associated with this circle of people,
who composed new ragas were Chidanand Nagarkar, J.D. Patki (both now
deceased) and C. R. Vyas. I will post you a list of those that I know about
soon.
--
Ramesh Gangolli (gang...@math.washington.edu)
Dept. of Mathematics GN-50
University of Washington
Seattle WA 98195.