distractions such as education?
Imnot Apadmashri
<QUOTE>Whereas the great artistes of the past used to train for 10-12
hours a day for 15-20 years before they were allowed to give a public
performance. The younger generation has too many distractions such as
education, TV, Movies, Internet cafes and the list goes on. I am not
very hopeful for the future of HCM</QUOTE>
Is the much better level of education among artists that one sees
today good or bad for HCM? I think this deserves a thread of its own.
The traders of my childhood took their sons* out of school early to
learn the ropes. Today the B-school graduates are giving traditional
traders a run for their money.
DG
* For the "gender studiers" among us, those traders also took their
daughters out of school early because the little-educated boys of the
community would not marry highly educated girls!
Vishwaroopa Sharma
> today good or bad for HCM? I think this deserves a thread of its own.
I think the word 'level of education' has some ambiguity. As far as
the commercial education (as prevailing in all corners now) may not do
much good for the artiste in making. It may at times surely distract
him, I feel. Talking about the professional attributes of education,
it is many a times disjointed with their career as artistes. But there
seems to be a fine mean. Despite the inherent malfunctions of our
university based educative systems, it is still a better choice to
learn music at academic levels. It may help to build a well-structured
perception and a good temperament. Therefore, my point is, art at the
academic levels would prove slightly better elevation for ICM, if not
more.
> The traders of my childhood took their sons* out of school early to
> learn the ropes. Today the B-school graduates are giving traditional
> traders a run for their money.
> * For the "gender studiers" among us, those traders also took their
> daughters out of school early because the little-educated boys of the
> community would not marry highly educated girls!
Do they have the same turn-over as did their forefathers? Perhaps how
many traditional traders have been left? I wonder.
~
VS
Imnot Apadmashri
> the word 'level of education' has some ambiguity.
You are right. Let me ask more specifically
1. Is completing school upto class 12 good for every HCM practitioner?
2. Would a short course on managing finances with a wildly variable
income be good for every HCM practitioner
2. Is a bachelor's degree in one of the following good for some
particular HCM practitioner? Mind you I am not suggesting every
practitioner needs one, but do you see that it may somehow contribute
to one's art and/or general well-being as an individual.
(a) Mathematics
(b) Physics
(c) Biology
(d) Law
(e) Medicine
(f) Engineering
(g) Architecture
(h) Psychology
(i) Literature
(j) Sculpture
(k) Theatre
(l) European Art Music
We'll postpone discussion of Masters and Ph D
DG
Asha
wrote:
See the link below
http://www98.griffith.edu.au/dspace/bitstream/10072/18936/1/48887_1.pdf
This does not answer the question on distractions due to life style or
school/college education. However, this paper examines and provides a
point of view on the Guru-Shishya-Parampara in today's context. The
case study is based on the music class by Pt. Hariprasad Chaurasia at
the Rotterdam Conservatoire, where Pt. Chaurasia has been artistic
director of the Indian classical music degree course since the 1990s.
-Asha
Balwant Dixit
would be very useful to most musicians. ................BND
"Imnot Apadmashri" <imnotap...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:274cef32-a3f9-43e9...@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
Imnot Apadmashri
article about Pt. Hariprasad Chaurasia's teaching at the Rotterdam
Conservatory.
I don't see the connection. We are discussing general education
here. If you want to discuss methods of teaching music, will you
please start a new thread? Thanks.
:
On Dec 15, 12:09 pm, "Balwant Dixit" <bdi...@pitt.edu> wrote:
> A course in ETHICS/ETHICAL BEHAVIOR ... would be very useful to most musicians.
Dr. Dixit, you have decades of experience dealing with musicians as
well as organizers, in your capacity of an organizer of US tours of
artists from India. Would you say that musicians are _as a class_
more in need of such a course than organizers?
> and a course in COMMUNICATION SKILLS
I think that nails the case for school education, at least.
DG
Balwant Dixit
with a total of 81 concert tours I had numerous occasions to deal with all
types of musicians from India (e.g. Hindustani & Karnatic, Seniors, Juniors
and not so juniors, Padmashrees, Padmabhushans, Padmavibhushans and even
Bharat Ratna, Ustads and Pandits, Instrumentalists and Vocalists, various
types of accompamists and the main musicians, Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs,
Bengalis, Maharashtrians, North Indians (so called) etc.). And since almost
all of them stayed with us in our house (with our family) for several days
at a time, we (my wife and I and my sons) were rewarded with observing them
in many situations, such as how they behave "on and off " the stage, how
they interact among themselves and with others, how they intearact with the
audience, how they deal with financial matters, their dietary, drinking and
smoking habits and their dietary demands, their personal habits, their
interest and abilities in "acquiring" items (by various means) that they may
not get back home and many other aspects of their behavior. Among some 160
musicians we hosted ONLY a very few would be considered having a knowledge
of "normal" behavior. My conclusions are many but I think that almost all
Indian musicians will benifit from learning "how to comminucate" with the
audience about themselves and about their music, and how to manage their
financial affairs "correctly." Almost all of them have two track minds; one
deals with "music" and other deals with "money." So my wife used to say
that they are like "M &M"s. As each one of them was learning music from
GURUS each one also unknowingly or willingly picked up "bad and not so bad
habits" of their GURUS, that at times even included GURU's allergies. I
hope I have given some idea about our "musicians." .............BND
"Imnot Apadmashri" <imnotap...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:de51e8c2-a4ac-4c77...@z35g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
Warren
> My conclusions are many but I think that almost all
> audience about themselves and about their music...
>
Agreed. I have heard the most astonishing public statements coming
out of the mouths of performers who really should know better:
historical errors, technical errors, irrelevancies, insults to the
intelligence of the audience, absurd self-aggrandizement, veiled and
not-so-veiled insults to other styles...you name it.
Some of my favorites:
A medium-famous tabla player, discussing different styles of vocal
music in a lecture demonstration: "The most important thing about
Dhrupad is that it is very loud."
A famous instrumentalist, performing for an all-Indian audience in
America: "The alap is where the most delicate and subtle music is
heard, but since we're in America, we'll skip it and go straight to
the fast stuff."
A Moderately Famous Vocalist in a lecture demonstration: MFV:
(speaks): "In this raga we avoid Re in the ascent, like
this:" (sings): S R G M P. My student (in the audience; raises hand):
"When you sang just now, you sang SRGMP. Was this an exception to the
rule?" MFV (speaks angrily): "I just told you! In this raga we avoid
Re in the ascent, like this:" (sings): S R G M P. My student (looks
at me and shrugs).
The same Moderately Famous Vocalist, later on in the same lec-dem:
(speaks) "In our gharana we cultivate perfect vocal technique. All
movement of the jaw while singing taans is strictly forbidden.
See!" (sings a taan with continuous up-and-down jaw motion
throughout.)
A famous instrumentalist, giving explanatory remarks before commencing
a performance: "I will play a composition in teental, a rhythmic cycle
of sixteen beats. It is counted like this: One, Two, Three, Four,
Five, Six, Seven, Eight, Nine, Ten, Eleven, Twelve, Thirteen,
Fourteen, Fifteen, Sixteen, One."
These are the ones that come to mind at the moment. If anyone has any
other gems to contribute I'd love to hear them.
WS
Imnot Apadmashri
experiences. This is the only allusion to unethical behaviour is his
mention of the artists'
> interest and abilities in "acquiring" items (by various means)
There is nothing wrong in having
> two track minds; one
> deals with "music" and other deals with "money."
That is probably how God has intended it, since He gave us left and
right hemispheres with their distinct functions.
Perhaps the good doctor will be more specific about ethics (without
mentioning names, of course). I have no first-hand experience, but I
have listened to both sides. The most frequently cited transgressions
on the part of touring musicians is making phone calls to India from
the home phone (that used to cost a lot, remember?) and drinking the
host's whiskey. The typical tour organizer arranges for the artist to
be deposited in a different stranger's home each Monday, there to
remain by himself till Friday, often separated from even his
accompanists. And he is immoral if he calls his wife or helps himself
to a drink?
You can always count on Pandit Senders to bring cheer to a thread. On
Dec 17, 7:09 pm, Warren <war...@aol.com> wrote several anecdotes about
communication, most very funny. But,
> A Moderately Famous Vocalist in a lecture demonstration: MFV:
> (speaks): "In this raga we avoid Re in the ascent, like
> this:" (sings): S R G M P.
Was that a Carnatic vocalist by any chance? They sometimes refer to R
(natural second) by the alias Ga 1. see Table II in
http://www.indianmelody.com/carnaticintro.htm, about 1/4 of the way
down on that long page.
The way Warren describes it, this
> teental, a rhythmic cycle
> of sixteen beats. It is counted like this: One, Two, Three, Four,
> Five, Six, Seven, Eight, Nine, Ten, Eleven, Twelve, Thirteen,
> Fourteen, Fifteen, Sixteen, One."
sounds weird. Is the artist teaching the listeners to count or what?
But when accompanied by the hand gestures conventionally used for the
purpose, this narrative makes more sense.
DG
Warren
>
> You can always count on Pandit Senders to bring cheer to a thread. On
> Dec 17, 7:09 pm, Warren <war...@aol.com> wrote several anecdotes about
> communication, most very funny. But,
>
> > A Moderately Famous Vocalist in a lecture demonstration: MFV:
> > (speaks): "In this raga we avoid Re in the ascent, like
> > this:" (sings): S R G M P.
>
> Was that a Carnatic vocalist by any chance? They sometimes refer to R
> down on that long page.
No...Hindustani, which could have been inferred from the subsequent
clip of the same vocalist using the term "gharana."
> The way Warren describes it, this
>
> > teental, a rhythmic cycle
> > of sixteen beats. It is counted like this: One, Two, Three, Four,
> > Five, Six, Seven, Eight, Nine, Ten, Eleven, Twelve, Thirteen,
> > Fourteen, Fifteen, Sixteen, One."
>
> sounds weird. Is the artist teaching the listeners to count or what?
> But when accompanied by the hand gestures conventionally used for the
> purpose, this narrative makes more sense.
>
> DG
This particular artifact is on a recording; there are no sounds of
handclapping audible. In any case, counting and making hand gestures
is, to a Western audience, just another source of bafflement.
Exegesis of taal structure cannot be done that way with any hope of
success.
WS