RapCity: UnderHouston
Jonathan Lindemann
it's the infamous "Joe Clair freestyle" show (missed some) but I caught
enough of it.
Thing that stood out to me was when Bun-B talked to ESG. ESG said that of
his last LP, he'd already hit 100,000 in sales, and that he was moving
3,500 units a week. Holy shit, that's a LOT of money. Say they sold that
album for even $5 a pop, that's $17,500 in his pocket for a week. Damn.
I can't see this type of deal being possible in the suburbs. Or am I just
talking out my ass? I don't think the word of mouth is there, the demand
isn't there, the hip-hop population isn't there. Not enough population
density to create an interest, a really dispersed market I'd say. This
strikes as a particularly "ghetto" phenomenon, just because that (as an
outsider) it seems that these areas are a lot more tightly knit than
burbs, and would have a much more unified opinion of good music.
Get back at me everybody.
known
Mr Bass
money. I doubt though that he is putting near that much money in his
pocket every week.
I will agree with you on that not being able to happen in the 'burbs
though. Plus add an extra reason. To many hip hop "purist" trying to
diss anything not coming from Rawkus or some other underground cats like
Acey or Common. We all know there is to many peeps in the burbs jockin
metaphores and multi-sylabil rhymes as the measure of flow to see some
music is dope with out it.
Big Mike
"We're standing on the edge of the third milenieum and peeps still
worrying about inter-racial dating. Forget that ish soon we going to
have to worry about interplanetary dating." ~ My boy Ray
Jonathan Lindemann
> I dont know about ESG's label or contract so I want disagree on the
> money. I doubt though that he is putting near that much money in his
> pocket every week.
I agree, but if that dude's moving 3500 units a week he must be making
more dough than the average joe on the street, that's for sure.
> I will agree with you on that not being able to happen in the 'burbs
> though. Plus add an extra reason. To many hip hop "purist" trying to
> diss anything not coming from Rawkus or some other underground cats like
> Acey or Common. We all know there is to many peeps in the burbs jockin
> metaphores and multi-sylabil rhymes as the measure of flow to see some
> music is dope with out it.
I don't really know about this (I see mad kids jocking Master P) but
you're right in the sense that it's a very fickle, fragmented market.
Nobody likes the same thing, and everybody is quick to diss.
But the suburbs are so generic, everybody wants to be different. I think
it's just the nature of the burbs.
known
OT
100...@panther.uwo.ca>,
Jonathan Lindemann <jpli...@julian.uwo.ca> wrote:
> Just watched BET's UnderHouston show, hosted by Bun-B. I don't know if
> it's the infamous "Joe Clair freestyle" show (missed some) but I caught
> enough of it.
>
> Thing that stood out to me was when Bun-B talked to ESG. ESG said that of
> his last LP, he'd already hit 100,000 in sales, and that he was moving
> 3,500 units a week.
And that's probably in the city of Houston alone.
> Holy shit, that's a LOT of money. Say they sold that
> album for even $5 a pop, that's $17,500 in his pocket for a >week. Damn.
It's damn-near like he was sellin' DOPE. Now you see whut
Master P means when he says, "Geto Dope"
This is what i was trying to say on that thread about g-rap aint
dead.
Independents make about $5 per album sale, this plus the
revenue from doing tons of local shows (Houston has one of the
biggest hip-hop-related club venues in the WORLD) equals
Ballerdom for most artists who get a hit on the streets OR the
radio down in these parts.
People forget that Houston is the Fourth largest city.
I we havent even factored in local mixtape sales like from DJ
Screw, DJ Bone, or the Swisha House on the Northside.
DJ Screw has probably sold at least 1,000,000 mixtapes LOCALLY
since 1992.
> I can't see this type of deal being possible in the suburbs. Or
>am I just
> talking out my ass?
It probably caint happen. Hip-hop that is REALLY street goes by
word of mouth and the clubs FIRST....erebody who's on the scene
is looking for what's hittin' NOW, not who has the best skills.
> I don't think the word of mouth is there, the demand
> isn't there, the hip-hop population isn't there. Not enough >population
> density to create an interest, a really dispersed market I'd say.
Not really, the product would just have to be marketed in a
different way. People in the Geto stay true to the street, THAT's
why Master P made all the money he did. Originally, it was the
folks in the HOOD who bought all his records, not all the people in
the suburbs.
>This
> strikes as a particularly "ghetto" phenomenon, just because that (as an
> outsider) it seems that these areas are a lot more tightly knit >than
> burbs, and would have a much more unified opinion of good music.
People in like circumstances tend to cling together.
And like I said once before, the people in the hood arent trying
to decipher the messages in the music, they ALREADY overstood
it before it was delivered, that's why all the 'lyricism' doesnt sell
in the hood.
I dont need big words to say something simple, and confuse half
my audience, I want EREBODY to overstand my message down to
the lowest common denominator.
This is the part that most 'critics' caint overstand, and they caint
figure out why certain artists that they think are 'dumb' sell so
many records.
best to start paying attention...them boys down in the dirty got
this industry in a headlock.
ESG aint sayin' he's "Shinin' & Grind'n" fo nothing.
Again, you need to hear the Botnay Boys too.
They have two full length lp's, one's a double album and they are
still indie and local.
The other part that folks dont realize is that all these artists
network TOGETHER. they're doing alot more than selling tapes.
they own stores, detail shops, studios, barbershops, etc etc
Puttin all they homeboys down with the lick.
> Get back at me everybody.
>
> known
Stay UP!!
OT
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Jonathan Lindemann
> And that's probably in the city of Houston alone.
Yeah, he was just referring to his area.
> > Holy shit, that's a LOT of money. Say they sold that
> > album for even $5 a pop, that's $17,500 in his pocket for a >week. Damn.
>
> It's damn-near like he was sellin' DOPE. Now you see whut
> Master P means when he says, "Geto Dope"
Yeah, that's ridiculous payola.
> This is what i was trying to say on that thread about g-rap aint
> dead.
>
> Independents make about $5 per album sale, this plus the
> revenue from doing tons of local shows (Houston has one of the
> biggest hip-hop-related club venues in the WORLD) equals
> Ballerdom for most artists who get a hit on the streets OR the
> radio down in these parts.
I remember you saying that in Houston you can just go from club to club to
club all night. Pretty fresh.
> People forget that Houston is the Fourth largest city.
>
> I we havent even factored in local mixtape sales like from DJ
> Screw, DJ Bone, or the Swisha House on the Northside.
>
> DJ Screw has probably sold at least 1,000,000 mixtapes LOCALLY
> since 1992.
Screw definitely has it locked down...I never realized how big he is down
there.
> > I can't see this type of deal being possible in the suburbs. Or
> >am I just
> > talking out my ass?
>
> It probably caint happen. Hip-hop that is REALLY street goes by
> word of mouth and the clubs FIRST....erebody who's on the scene
> is looking for what's hittin' NOW, not who has the best skills.
We don't really have this type of scene in my city (all local groups are
pretty well corny, and the "network" of kids are all a bunch of punks that
I know from way back in the day) so I can't relate to it. All I know is
that it's vastly different from what one would need to have a thriving
mix-tape market, for example.
> Not really, the product would just have to be marketed in a
> different way. People in the Geto stay true to the street, THAT's
> why Master P made all the money he did. Originally, it was the
> folks in the HOOD who bought all his records, not all the people in
> the suburbs.
Yeah. Hmmm, I wonder how you could reach the suburbs in a grass-roots
way...maybe sell them over the internet, or in convenience stores. *Jon
ponders the possibilities of being a suburban hip-hop mogul*
> People in like circumstances tend to cling together.
> And like I said once before, the people in the hood arent trying
> to decipher the messages in the music, they ALREADY overstood
> it before it was delivered, that's why all the 'lyricism' doesnt sell
> in the hood.
Spirit might have something to say about this one. What it be fair to
say, then, that people in the hood have no time to debate the complexities
of life when they're just trying to survive?
> I dont need big words to say something simple, and confuse half
> my audience, I want EREBODY to overstand my message down to
> the lowest common denominator.
Q-Tip used to straddle this line nicely. Very few MCs do, or at least do
it in a way that's appealing. You don't have to be lyrcially complex to
communicate complex ideas.
> This is the part that most 'critics' caint overstand, and they caint
> figure out why certain artists that they think are 'dumb' sell so
> many records.
> best to start paying attention...them boys down in the dirty got
> this industry in a headlock.
I'll buy that.
> The other part that folks dont realize is that all these artists
> network TOGETHER. they're doing alot more than selling tapes.
>
> they own stores, detail shops, studios, barbershops, etc etc
Overall the scene seemed really tight, like when Bun B went to visit Dope
House Records. Latinos and everybody was tight. That one dude that
kicked a freestyle was wack though.
Their cars were also crazy...neon in the trunks, TVs in the
dashboard...nuts.
known
Michael Noschese
> Just watched BET's UnderHouston show, hosted by Bun-B. I don't know if
> it's the infamous "Joe Clair freestyle" show (missed some) but I caught
> enough of it.
>
> Thing that stood out to me was when Bun-B talked to ESG. ESG said that of
> his last LP, he'd already hit 100,000 in sales, and that he was moving
> 3,500 units a week. Holy shit, that's a LOT of money. Say they sold that
> album for even $5 a pop, that's $17,500 in his pocket for a week. Damn.
Minus the cost of pressing each copy of tape, CD, and vinyl. And minus the
cost of printing up covers and sleeves for each copy. Minus the expense of
either paying stores to carry your album or the cost of going around and
selling the album yourself. As well as paying off any types of debt incurred
in producing and recording the album. And of course taxes. Still a good
amount of money but there is no way he pockets every dollar he earns.
How long has the album been out?
> I can't see this type of deal being possible in the suburbs. Or am I just
> talking out my ass? I don't think the word of mouth is there, the demand
> isn't there, the hip-hop population isn't there. Not enough population
> density to create an interest, a really dispersed market I'd say. This
> strikes as a particularly "ghetto" phenomenon, just because that (as an
> outsider) it seems that these areas are a lot more tightly knit than
> burbs, and would have a much more unified opinion of good music.
It doesn't happen because the suburban market is already owned by the
major record stores. The market is pretty well saturated. Without a club
scene to spark word of mouth most suburban fans hear about music through,
MTV or BET, local radio, ads and what passes for reviews in magazines, the
Internet. The major labels obviously get preference in the stores in terms
of product placement, discounts therefore making it hard for an independent
to make it big.
It seems to me that both groups are pretty unified if you look at
national appeal. Local artists will almost always thrive in a city. The
suburbs are way too spread out.
Spirit68
>suburbs are way too spread out.
>
just out of curiosity, how do you explain, say, ska or punk (in the 80s) in
Orange County CA? The rave scene?
>sold that
>> album for even $5 a pop, that's $17,500 in his pocket for a week. Damn.
>
>Minus the cost of pressing each copy of tape, CD, and vinyl. And minus the
>cost of printing up covers and sleeves for each copy.
yo, I can tell you now, if he orders in bulk from someone like Discmakers,
those costs are miniscule. For a run of 1000 tapes, my crew only paid like 0.79
a tape. And the per copy cost keeps dropping the more you press. Since ESG
pressed 100,000, I would say that he is paying an extremely lost cost per CD.
He is indeed pocketing a lot of that money.
>Minus the expense of
>either paying stores to carry your album
In the South, the game is different. You can push 100,000 selling at mom and
pop shops. The major record stores also WANT your product, because local rap is
outselling national rap.
> As well as paying off any types of debt incurred
>in producing and recording the album
I guarantee you ESG owns a studio. And prolly has local fools paying to record
there to subsidize that.
> And of course taxes
Now that will take out a chunk of the change, but that's a business expense,
the cost of being legal.
The indie game in the g-rap world is way different from the metaphor-indie
scene.
Peace,
Spirit
Spread Love/Amphibians
The Amphibians' debut single "Lettuce (Entertain You)" b/w "Journey" is
available NOW, on vinyl ($5) and cassettes ($3), add $2 for shipping tapes, $3
for shipping vinyl. E-mail me for more details...
Pushermat1
population of people in NY, LA, Chicago, Cleveland, Philly, DC, Dallas, all
kinds of places, but no rap scene boasts the local support that houston does. i
have said for a long time that houston is the realest. Very independent minded
and extrememly supportive of local dope talent. Plenty of clubs, supportive
commercial radio, a mix tape DJ that is the back bone of the whole scene and a
whole lot of folks in them streets working towards the same goal. To get paid
legitimately as an artist/entrepreneur, whatever. It's not happenning on that
level in any other city in the world.
The bay area and Houston have a lot of similarities though. Can't front.
PEACE
pusherman matt stonedalla
Jonathan Lindemann
> Houston is a very special place too. Unlike no other. There's a seriously dense
> population of people in NY, LA, Chicago, Cleveland, Philly, DC, Dallas, all
> kinds of places, but no rap scene boasts the local support that houston does. i
> have said for a long time that houston is the realest. Very independent minded
> and extrememly supportive of local dope talent. Plenty of clubs, supportive
> commercial radio, a mix tape DJ that is the back bone of the whole scene and a
> whole lot of folks in them streets working towards the same goal. To get paid
> legitimately as an artist/entrepreneur, whatever. It's not happenning on that
> level in any other city in the world.
Would you say then, that perhaps Houston is the way that hip-hop should be
everywhere? Is it a hip-hop utopia?
known
OT
I don't think its hip-hop Utopia, but its pretty close to being the
hip-hop Mecca of the South.
People come from erewhere come to kick it/live in Houston,
becuz for the most part we don't hate...we innovate and
congradulate.
Master P lives in Houston but is from New Orleans, Eightball &
MJG live in Houston but are from Memphis, and the list goes on.
Literally i havent been to too many other places that has as
many hip-hop related clubs with live performances that aint
overpriced (Pheonix, Chocolatetown, Jamaica-Jamaica has been
open for 11 years, The Roxy, Riddims for the dancehall,
Carringtons, Coco Loco, Studio 44, just to name a few) were you
can take folks to have a good time.
plus, H-town is the city of the vehicle fashion show, we got the
carfreaks, hoppers, and the boppers 4REALª.
You'll some some shit you aint seen before i garawn-tee.
From candied 'Lacs on swangaz & vogyes to the foreign big-
bodies with 4 tv's in the headrests.
And pound fo pound, the only place that I've seen as many fine
gals as here have been in Louisiana, Virginia, and Philadelphia.
Even the laws dont hate for the most part, they're all getting
paid to be security for the events. I've gone to a club and a law
walked up to the ride when we were smokin' & leanin' and gave
us a flyer for a pool party at some other spot the next day.
Plus, Houston has the Kappa Beach Party and the Texas Freaknic
that was held last weekend. I'm sure at least 25,000 people
were there.
Mane I hate I crashed the big purple trophy truck.
It used to be the boppa-stoppa.
Come down and see whut we all about!!
They don't call H-town 'The Space-City' fo nothin'!!!
Pushermat1
>everywhere? Is it a hip-hop utopia?
I'll say this. My father moved to Houston when I was 8 years old (1980) and
from then I spent every summer of my life till age 17 there, and after high
school I lived in Houston for just under 6 years and Austin for just under 3.
Spent crazy time in houston. Come up in Houston. Probably end up in Houston
after my nomad license runs out. I used to do radio in Houston and run an open
mic spot and I wouldn't say that it is a hip hop utopia, but it is damn close.
I've lived in NY, I've lived in Amsterdam, and now I live in Chicago. No city
compares to what Houston has going on.
If you live in houston, you're gonna complain about 97.9 The Box (the
commercial urban station out there) but after being gone for a couple months
you'll miss that station like crazy and appreciate it like a mahfucker. Best
urban station in the nation. (hold up I'ma cut it on right now. www.kbxx.com)
O.K. got it on. They are right now announcing a party this Saturday night and
said some shit about DJ DMD with Kid Capri. I know most heads on this newsgroup
don't feel straight southern shit (cept me, Overtime, Les, kool Aid and them)
but this new DJ DMD is off the heezay! Some of the best MC's I've heard in a
while represent on this disc, Boonie Loc, Superb Herb, all kinds of folks from
Port Arthur to Houston (not a long drive but a musically significant one) and
it's pretty much the best record out right now to me.
But back to Houston. There's a lot of love in that town. Everything Overtime
said in his post is true. Crazy clubs, most pumpin all week long, them laws
aren't as bad as a lot of cities. You can catch heat real easy and it can get
hostile and fucked up, but for the most part you're just as likely to see a cop
chillin at an event as you would to see him lording over the place.
And the music, I'm trying to tell y'all, the music is everywhere. Hip Hop
reigns over a big part of Houston. I'm serious. Everything from K-Otix to Screw
to Destinys Child is fat to me out there. I don't jam a lot of Screw tapes
myself, but I'll tell you that mahfucker is the biggest selling hip hop artist
in the world hands down from Houston alone! Do you understand that he has 1000s
of tapes out and kids out there fiend to have every one of them? Yeah many kids
dub shit but that fool sells tapes consistently, all day everyday. Has a store
right in the cut with like 300 Screw tapes available at all times. He's that
large. This place (Screwed Up Records and Tapes) don't sell anything else.
Nothing. You walk into this empty room and see this girl behind the bulletproof
glass and tell her what tape you want and slide the money underneath.
Seriously. It's like a dope spot, only you're gettin them tapes. It's off the
hook. Trips me out everytime.
Many ghetto entrepreneurs came up in and have flocked to Houston. It's a very
diverse city, but like most of the south it keeps to itself. There's not a lot
of hype attached to Texas, and that's part of what has nurtured this healthy
hip hop hub and allowed it to remain so dope.
Everything you love from the south is because it's some quality shit. Not
because some fucking marketing department amped you all up to hear it.
PEACE
pusherman matt stonedalla
da One and Only Jazzman
: In article <Pine.SOL.3.95q.990715091743.8425C-
: 100...@panther.uwo.ca>,
: Jonathan Lindemann <jpli...@julian.uwo.ca> wrote:
: > On 15 Jul 1999, Pushermat1 wrote:
: > Would you say then, that perhaps Houston is the way that hip-hop should be
: > everywhere? Is it a hip-hop utopia?
: > known
:
:
: I don't think its hip-hop Utopia, but its pretty close to being the
: hip-hop Mecca of the South.
That's interesting. I wouldn't disagree with you. it's just kinda funny
that in the early 90s, folks were saying Atlanta was the "Motown of the
South." What happened with the ATL?
:
: People come from erewhere come to kick it/live in Houston,
: becuz for the most part we don't hate...we innovate and
: congradulate.
So, are you just as likely to get love if you're performing some live
hip-hop with jazzy tracks as if you were performing the "get krunk" type
stuff? Just wondering. Philly is on the come up in that cats are doing
their ghetto thing, their thug thing, and their
"Roots"-type/artsy/experimentalist thing. Just wondering if Houston is
the same.
:
: Master P lives in Houston but is from New Orleans, Eightball &
: MJG live in Houston but are from Memphis, and the list goes on.
:
: Literally i havent been to too many other places that has as
: many hip-hop related clubs with live performances that aint
: overpriced (Pheonix, Chocolatetown, Jamaica-Jamaica has been
: open for 11 years, The Roxy, Riddims for the dancehall,
: Carringtons, Coco Loco, Studio 44, just to name a few) were you
: can take folks to have a good time.
I think the club-scene down there is different from here.
:
: plus, H-town is the city of the vehicle fashion show, we got the
: carfreaks, hoppers, and the boppers 4REALª.
: You'll some some shit you aint seen before i garawn-tee.
: From candied 'Lacs on swangaz & vogyes to the foreign big-
: bodies with 4 tv's in the headrests.
What gets me about the Gulf Coast in general is the emphasis on cars and
stuff in them. My girl down there used to tell me if you had wood-grain
on your car, you was the tru balla and mad folks would sweat you. And
I'm like what? Wood-grain? You've got to be kiddin'. She used to tell
me about folks with 'Burbans who had Playstations in their jawns and I
used to be like why? I'm thinkin' why, but hey... I guess that's the
difference between cities with subways and cities without them. It also
ahs to do with the fact that, like that other cat said, Houston is spread
out. Folk don't live on top of each other like in Philly, Boston, NY,
Chi, DC, etc. LA is similar.
:
: And pound fo pound, the only place that I've seen as many fine
: gals as here have been in Louisiana, Virginia, and Philadelphia.
that's 'cause we got the fly jawns. MY boi in NY, when he first came to
Philly, used to tell me the philly jawns were easy. I still dispute
that, but they are type nice though.
:
: Plus, Houston has the Kappa Beach Party and the Texas Freaknic
: that was held last weekend. I'm sure at least 25,000 people
: were there.
I still say there ain't nothin' like Philly Greek and tryin' to get
around Center City and down Broad Street afterwards. If you're in that
jawn, don't expect to get home 'til dawn.
:
: Mane I hate I crashed the big purple trophy truck.
: It used to be the boppa-stoppa.
:
: Come down and see whut we all about!!
: They don't call H-town 'The Space-City' fo nothin'!!!
I am interested in the history of Houston as a city and the history of
the hip-hop scene there. Why has it been that they can really, REALLY
support their own and attract artist whereas other cities have trouble or
go through phases. Really, in terms of local support, their only three
other ares I've ehard of which have done it consistently... NY (of
course), LA, and the Bay Area. NY and LA can be attributed to size
alone, but I'm really wondering why and how the Bay Area has kept it's
hip-hop scene so vivrant? If you're in the Bay Area, and you do hip-hop,
you're likely to get mad support from alot of folks including known cats
in and outside of the hip-hop arena. Why is it that these places can
actively support their own but other areas have trouble?
--
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OT
sjac...@nimbus.temple.edu (da One and Only Jazzman) wrote:
> OT (over...@ev1.net) wrote:
> : In article <Pine.SOL.3.95q.990715091743.8425C-
> : 100...@panther.uwo.ca>,
> : Jonathan Lindemann <jpli...@julian.uwo.ca> wrote:
> : > On 15 Jul 1999, Pushermat1 wrote:
> : >
> : > Would you say then, that perhaps Houston is the way that hip-hop
should be
> : > everywhere? Is it a hip-hop utopia?
> : >
> : > known
> :
> :
> : I don't think its hip-hop Utopia, but its pretty close to being
the
> : hip-hop Mecca of the South.
>
> That's interesting. I wouldn't disagree with you. it's just kinda
funny
> that in the early 90s, folks were saying Atlanta was the "Motown of
the
> South." What happened with the ATL?
ATL is still doing its thang. I went to ATL last summer for the Vibe
VRS Seminar. I kicked at a bunch of spots (112, the Wu-Club, and a
strip joint in eastpoint)
I think the difference has something to do with locality and the
different collogiate based atmosphere in ATL. ATL is a colletge town,
and not just a college town, it has a number of Black colleges.
Alot of the college students in ATL come from the eastcoast, which
kinda gave ATL an eastcoast-vibe to me, becuz often alot of them live
there after they finsih college. They also have alot of Black artists
and afrocentrics in ATL.
Houston has colleges and two black colleges in close proximity, but
for the most part people are here puttin' it down trying to make money.
From oil to cattle, to agriculture, you can get paid.
Right now me and a potna of mine haul watermelons to the city in a big
Ford 1 ton. The farmer pays us$175 cash each trip. If you're humpin'
you can make 4-8 trips PER DAY. Its not work for slackers or lite-
weights though, its physical labor in 100 degree heat. But its worth
it to get $500+cash a day. You can bust yo azz for two weeks and make
what a clock puncher makes in 2 months.
> :
> : People come from erewhere come to kick it/live in Houston,
> : becuz for the most part we don't hate...we innovate and
> : congradulate.
>
> So, are you just as likely to get love if you're performing some live
> hip-hop with jazzy tracks as if you were performing the "get krunk"
type
> stuff? Just wondering.
There's a venue for pretty much erethang, but hip-hop-wise, most
folks this way aren't really on an eastcoast vibe.
I know a few jazzy spots though, the crowd is a lil older though than
your average 'hip-hop' spot. me personal, I like all types of vibes.
I sometimes prefer going to a jazzy venue.
To give you an idea, Maxwell has a concert scheduled for next month,
both shows sold out in five minutes.
>Philly is on the come up in that cats are doing
> their ghetto thing, their thug thing, and their
> "Roots"-type/artsy/experimentalist thing. Just wondering if Houston
is
> the same.
Erebody here is on a come up. Its up to you to make it happen!
> :
> : Master P lives in Houston but is from New Orleans, Eightball &
> : MJG live in Houston but are from Memphis, and the list goes on.
> :
> : Literally i havent been to too many other places that has as
> : many hip-hop related clubs with live performances that aint
> : overpriced (Pheonix, Chocolatetown, Jamaica-Jamaica has been
> : open for 11 years, The Roxy, Riddims for the dancehall,
> : Carringtons, Coco Loco, Studio 44, just to name a few) were you
> : can take folks to have a good time.
>
> I think the club-scene down there is different from here.
What do you think is the difference?
> :
> : plus, H-town is the city of the vehicle fashion show, we got the
> : carfreaks, hoppers, and the boppers 4REALª.
> : You'll some some shit you aint seen before i garawn-tee.
> : From candied 'Lacs on swangaz & vogyes to the foreign big-
> : bodies with 4 tv's in the headrests.
>
> What gets me about the Gulf Coast in general is the emphasis on cars
and
> stuff in them.
Yeah, i told yall we been doing the vehicle fashion show thang fo a
lotta years. The only other place that I know they really get into
cars the same way is in Cali. Personally, I think its becuz we are so
close to the Mexican border and alot of Mexicans who are into lowriding
in Cali have relatives here in Tejas, and they do the same type thangs
here. Houston is the home of Los Manificos, the largest lowrider
competition in the world.
I'm not being funny when i say there are alot of Mexicanos, Cubanos,
etc here. Houston Independent school district is something like 47-
percent spanish speaking, and for the most part they jam Tejano and the
same music the Blackfolks do, i.e. hip-hop.
> My girl down there used to tell me if you had wood-grain
> on your car, you was the tru balla and mad folks would sweat you.
And
> I'm like what? Wood-grain? You've got to be kiddin'.
Yeah, woodgrain is fo playaz only. I had a wood MoMo steering wheel and
a wooded-out interior on my truck, with the chariot lights. I think
you are thinking of the wrong thang. She's not talking about wood
paneling like on a station wagon, she's talkin bout the dash and doors
having woodgrain like in an expensive luxury car.
> She used to tell
> me about folks with 'Burbans who had Playstations in their jawns and
I
> used to be like why?
Mane, people put playstations, vcr's, small bars, neon in the trunk,
gangsta pop-trunks on fifth wheels, etc in their loads, becuz its all
part of the vehicle fashion show. whenever an event goes down, the
parking lots and streets surrounding the event are usually packed
bumber to bumper, with folks walking around conversating, etc.
shinin' all there space-age technology.
Boppers (gals who jump into fly rides at said events) love that type
shit.
>I'm thinkin' why, but hey... I guess that's the
> difference between cities with subways and cities without them. It
also
> ahs to do with the fact that, like that other cat said, Houston is
spread
> out. Folk don't live on top of each other like in Philly, Boston,
NY,
> Chi, DC, etc. LA is similar.
Houston is damn-near 100 miles across. It's almost impossible to get
across town if you dont have one. Houston was built without zoning on
purpose to be able to seperate the neighborhoods by socio-economic
status.
I literally know people who live on the Northside who never go on the
Southside, and vice versa. I think this also helped the scene to
develop becuz the city is so big that people on the Northside dont have
to go to the Southside becuz there are club venues on both sides of town
> :
> : And pound fo pound, the only place that I've seen as many fine
> : gals as here have been in Louisiana, Virginia, and Philadelphia.
>
> that's 'cause we got the fly jawns. MY boi in NY, when he first came
to
> Philly, used to tell me the philly jawns were easy. I still dispute
> that, but they are type nice though.
They're pretty easy, but not any easier than anyplace else I've been.
I liked their accents and the different styles they had, when I was
there gals were wearing fly-azz short haircuts.
> :
> : Plus, Houston has the Kappa Beach Party and the Texas Freaknic
> : that was held last weekend. I'm sure at least 25,000 people
> : were there.
>
> I still say there ain't nothin' like Philly Greek and tryin' to get
> around Center City and down Broad Street afterwards. If you're in
that
> jawn, don't expect to get home 'til dawn.
I already went to the greek, and i can tell you that the BeachParty
can fade the Greek becuz its on the beach and all the gals are nekked,
plus erebody PLANNED on staying the weekend at the beach so all the
hotels are full of partys & bullshit.
> :
> : Mane I hate I crashed the big purple trophy truck.
> : It used to be the boppa-stoppa.
> :
> : Come down and see whut we all about!!
> : They don't call H-town 'The Space-City' fo nothin'!!!
>
> I am interested in the history of Houston as a city and the history
of
> the hip-hop scene there. Why has it been that they can really,
REALLY
> support their own and attract artist whereas other cities have
trouble or
> go through phases.
I think its becuz for so long nobody else showed us love. We didnt
just start rappin' when the geto Boys dropped, we been doin this shit
too.
And its a policy down this way to neva dis a local, that's what haters
do. How you gone get somebody else to love it if half the folks in its
home are hatin on it?
> Really, in terms of local support, their only three
> other ares I've ehard of which have done it consistently... NY (of
> course), LA, and the Bay Area. NY and LA can be attributed to size
> alone, but I'm really wondering why and how the Bay Area has kept
it's
> hip-hop scene so vivrant?
The Bay is the most similar place to Houston hip-hopwise i've been.
I think its also attributed to the fact that Oakland has been a Black
city for a LOOONG time (let's not forget where the Panthers were, the
Bay is also the home of Frankie Beverly)and people created their own
styles. They aren't really trying to imitate new york, they are on
their OWN shit, just like here. Artists from the Bay get alotta of
love down here too. The Urban radio stations here will play it if
Black folks like it, not just becuz it fits the format.
>If you're in the Bay Area, and you do hip-hop,
> you're likely to get mad support from alot of folks including known
cats
> in and outside of the hip-hop arena. Why is it that these places can
> actively support their own but other areas have trouble?
To me its becuz we don't fake the funk, playa!!!
If its hittin' people will praise you, if not people will tell you to
get the hell own.
Now that's REAL.
Stay UP!!
OT
> --
> Brought to you by:
> --
> "da One & Only Jiggy Jazzman"
> Steve S. Jackson
> (Instrumentalist, Lyricist, Philospher, Poet, Bitter Smurf)
>
> sjac...@nimbus.temple.edu*|*jiggyj...@collegeclub.com
>
> "God is..."
>
> **************************************************
> www.phillyword.com-- the Final Say in Hip-Hop
> **************************************************
> http://thunder.ocis.temple.edu/~sjackson...sign my guestbook!!!
please:)
> **************************************************
> Official I-Phunk Homepage:
> http://thunder.ocis.temple.edu/~sjackson/iph.html
> **************************************************
> Proud supporter of rmhh.com
> Free email, voicemail, website, and bunches of other free goodies at
> htt://www.collegeclub.com
>
> And the letter igriega.
>
OT
sjac...@nimbus.temple.edu (da One and Only Jazzman) wrote:
> : In article <Pine.SOL.3.95q.990715091743.8425C-
> : 100...@panther.uwo.ca>,
> : Jonathan Lindemann <jpli...@julian.uwo.ca> wrote:
> : > On 15 Jul 1999, Pushermat1 wrote:
> : >
> : > Would you say then, that perhaps Houston is the way that hip-hop
should be
> : > everywhere? Is it a hip-hop utopia?
> : >
> : > known
> :
> :
> : I don't think its hip-hop Utopia, but its pretty close to being
the
> : hip-hop Mecca of the South.
>
> That's interesting. I wouldn't disagree with you. it's just kinda
funny
> that in the early 90s, folks were saying Atlanta was the "Motown of
the
> South." What happened with the ATL?
ATL is still doing its thang. I went to ATL last summer for the Vibe
VRS Seminar. I kicked at a bunch of spots (112, the Wu-Club, and a
strip joint in eastpoint)
I think the difference has something to do with locality and the
different collogiate based atmosphere in ATL. ATL is a colletge town,
and not just a college town, it has a number of Black colleges.
Alot of the college students in ATL come from the eastcoast, which
kinda gave ATL an eastcoast-vibe to me, becuz often alot of them live
there after they finsih college. They also have alot of Black artists
and afrocentrics in ATL.
Houston has colleges and two black colleges in close proximity, but
for the most part people are here puttin' it down trying to make money.
From oil to cattle, to agriculture, you can get paid.
Right now me and a potna of mine haul watermelons to the city in a big
Ford 1 ton. The farmer pays us $175 cash each trip. If you're humpin'
you can make 4-8 trips PER DAY. Its not work for slackers or lite-
weights though, its physical labor in 100 degree heat. But its worth
it to get $500+cash a day. You can bust yo azz for two weeks and make
what a clock puncher makes in 2 months.
> :
> : People come from erewhere come to kick it/live in Houston,
> : becuz for the most part we don't hate...we innovate and
> : congradulate.
>
> So, are you just as likely to get love if you're performing some live
> hip-hop with jazzy tracks as if you were performing the "get krunk"
type
> stuff? Just wondering.
There's a venue for pretty much erethang, but hip-hop-wise, most
folks this way aren't really on an eastcoast vibe.
I know a few jazzy spots though, the crowd is a lil older though than
your average 'hip-hop' spot. me personal, I like all types of vibes.
I sometimes prefer going to a jazzy venue.
To give you an idea, Maxwell has a concert scheduled for next month,
both shows sold out in five minutes.
>Philly is on the come up in that cats are doing
> their ghetto thing, their thug thing, and their
> "Roots"-type/artsy/experimentalist thing. Just wondering if Houston
is
> the same.
Erebody here is on a come up. Its up to you to make it happen!
> :
> : Master P lives in Houston but is from New Orleans, Eightball &
> : MJG live in Houston but are from Memphis, and the list goes on.
> :
> : Literally i havent been to too many other places that has as
> : many hip-hop related clubs with live performances that aint
> : overpriced (Pheonix, Chocolatetown, Jamaica-Jamaica has been
> : open for 11 years, The Roxy, Riddims for the dancehall,
> : Carringtons, Coco Loco, Studio 44, just to name a few) were you
> : can take folks to have a good time.
>
> I think the club-scene down there is different from here.
What do you think is the difference?
> :
> : plus, H-town is the city of the vehicle fashion show, we got the
> : carfreaks, hoppers, and the boppers 4REALª.
> : You'll some some shit you aint seen before i garawn-tee.
> : From candied 'Lacs on swangaz & vogyes to the foreign big-
> : bodies with 4 tv's in the headrests.
>
> What gets me about the Gulf Coast in general is the emphasis on cars
and
> stuff in them.
Yeah, i told yall we been doing the vehicle fashion show thang fo a
lotta years. The only other place that I know they really get into
cars the same way is in Cali. Personally, I think its becuz we are so
close to the Mexican border and alot of Mexicans who are into lowriding
in Cali have relatives here in Tejas, and they do the same type thangs
here. Houston is the home of Los Manificos, the largest lowrider
competition in the world.
I'm not being funny when i say there are alot of Mexicanos, Cubanos,
etc here. Houston Independent school district is something like 47-
percent spanish speaking, and for the most part they jam Tejano and the
same music the Blackfolks do, i.e. hip-hop.
> My girl down there used to tell me if you had wood-grain
> on your car, you was the tru balla and mad folks would sweat you.
And
> I'm like what? Wood-grain? You've got to be kiddin'.
Yeah, woodgrain is fo playaz only. I had a wood MoMo steering wheel and
a wooded-out interior on my truck, with the chariot lights. I think
you are thinking of the wrong thang. She's not talking about wood
paneling like on a station wagon, she's talkin bout the dash and doors
having woodgrain like in an expensive luxury car.
> She used to tell
> me about folks with 'Burbans who had Playstations in their jawns and
I
> used to be like why?
Mane, people put playstations, vcr's, small bars, neon in the trunk,
gangsta pop-trunks on fifth wheels, etc in their loads, becuz its all
part of the vehicle fashion show. whenever an event goes down, the
parking lots and streets surrounding the event are usually packed
bumber to bumper, with folks walking around conversating, etc.
shinin' all there space-age technology.
Boppers (gals who jump into fly rides at said events) love that type
shit.
>I'm thinkin' why, but hey... I guess that's the
> difference between cities with subways and cities without them. It
also
> ahs to do with the fact that, like that other cat said, Houston is
spread
> out. Folk don't live on top of each other like in Philly, Boston,
NY,
> Chi, DC, etc. LA is similar.
Houston is damn-near 100 miles across. It's almost impossible to get
across town if you dont have one. Houston was built without zoning on
purpose to be able to seperate the neighborhoods by socio-economic
status.
I literally know people who live on the Northside who never go on the
Southside, and vice versa. I think this also helped the scene to
develop becuz the city is so big that people on the Northside dont have
to go to the Southside becuz there are club venues on both sides of town
> :
> : And pound fo pound, the only place that I've seen as many fine
> : gals as here have been in Louisiana, Virginia, and Philadelphia.
>
> that's 'cause we got the fly jawns. MY boi in NY, when he first came
to
> Philly, used to tell me the philly jawns were easy. I still dispute
> that, but they are type nice though.
They're pretty easy, but not any easier than anyplace else I've been.
I liked their accents and the different styles they had, when I was
there gals were wearing fly-azz short haircuts.
> :
> : Plus, Houston has the Kappa Beach Party and the Texas Freaknic
> : that was held last weekend. I'm sure at least 25,000 people
> : were there.
>
> I still say there ain't nothin' like Philly Greek and tryin' to get
> around Center City and down Broad Street afterwards. If you're in
that
> jawn, don't expect to get home 'til dawn.
I already went to the greek, and i can tell you that the BeachParty
can fade the Greek becuz its on the beach and all the gals are nekked,
plus erebody PLANNED on staying the weekend at the beach so all the
hotels are full of partys & bullshit.
> :
> : Mane I hate I crashed the big purple trophy truck.
> : It used to be the boppa-stoppa.
> :
> : Come down and see whut we all about!!
> : They don't call H-town 'The Space-City' fo nothin'!!!
>
> I am interested in the history of Houston as a city and the history
of
> the hip-hop scene there. Why has it been that they can really,
REALLY
> support their own and attract artist whereas other cities have
trouble or
> go through phases.
I think its becuz for so long nobody else showed us love. We didnt
just start rappin' when the geto Boys dropped, we been doin this shit
too.
And its a policy down this way to neva dis a local, that's what haters
do. How you gone get somebody else to love it if half the folks in its
home are hatin on it?
> Really, in terms of local support, their only three
> other ares I've ehard of which have done it consistently... NY (of
> course), LA, and the Bay Area. NY and LA can be attributed to size
> alone, but I'm really wondering why and how the Bay Area has kept
it's
> hip-hop scene so vivrant?
The Bay is the most similar place to Houston hip-hopwise i've been.
I think its also attributed to the fact that Oakland has been a Black
city for a LOOONG time (let's not forget where the Panthers were, the
Bay is also the home of Frankie Beverly)and people created their own
styles. They aren't really trying to imitate new york, they are on
their OWN shit, just like here. Artists from the Bay get alotta of
love down here too. The Urban radio stations here will play it if
Black folks like it, not just becuz it fits the format.
>If you're in the Bay Area, and you do hip-hop,
> you're likely to get mad support from alot of folks including known
cats
> in and outside of the hip-hop arena. Why is it that these places can
> actively support their own but other areas have trouble?
To me its becuz we don't fake the funk, playa!!!
If its hittin' people will praise you, if not people will tell you to
get the hell own.
Now that's REAL.
Stay UP!!
OT
> --
> Brought to you by:
> --
> "da One & Only Jiggy Jazzman"
> Steve S. Jackson
> (Instrumentalist, Lyricist, Philospher, Poet, Bitter Smurf)
>
> sjac...@nimbus.temple.edu*|*jiggyj...@collegeclub.com
>
> "God is..."
>
> **************************************************
> www.phillyword.com-- the Final Say in Hip-Hop
> **************************************************
> http://thunder.ocis.temple.edu/~sjackson...sign my guestbook!!!
please:)
> **************************************************
> Official I-Phunk Homepage:
> http://thunder.ocis.temple.edu/~sjackson/iph.html
> **************************************************
> Proud supporter of rmhh.com
> Free email, voicemail, website, and bunches of other free goodies at
> htt://www.collegeclub.com
>
> And the letter igriega.
>
Spirit68
>> : Master P lives in Houston but is from New Orleans
Huh? I thought P lived in the Red Stick (baton Rouge).
Jonathan Lindemann
> plus, H-town is the city of the vehicle fashion show, we got the
> carfreaks, hoppers, and the boppers 4REALª.
> You'll some some shit you aint seen before i garawn-tee.
> From candied 'Lacs on swangaz & vogyes to the foreign big-
> bodies with 4 tv's in the headrests.
Yeah, I was blown away by the cars they had on RapCity. TVs on the dash,
neon in the trunks, massive stereos, damn. I'm more a fan of sports cars,
but those caddies were SWEET.
> And pound fo pound, the only place that I've seen as many fine
> gals as here have been in Louisiana, Virginia, and Philadelphia.
Southern women. Mmmmmmm.
> Even the laws dont hate for the most part, they're all getting
> paid to be security for the events. I've gone to a club and a law
> walked up to the ride when we were smokin' & leanin' and gave
> us a flyer for a pool party at some other spot the next day.
That's cool...up here the cops only hassle and break up a good party.
> Mane I hate I crashed the big purple trophy truck.
> It used to be the boppa-stoppa.
Yeah, I was feeling the one boppa on RapCity at the end (on the right,
with Bun-B). She was fine in a skanky sort of way, she had a nice face
and the body was there too. Bit big for a skinny white boy like me, but
it was there.
> Come down and see whut we all about!!
> They don't call H-town 'The Space-City' fo nothin'!!!
Ok, can I stay at your place, eat your food and mooch some money off of
you? If so, I'm down.
known
OT
yeah, just be ready to do some work , (we get up at the crack of dawn
to goto the farm if we havent stayed up all nite- so you can earn your
own money), be ready for the heat & humidity (100 degrees at 8:30am), be
ready to be around a bunch of farm animals and horses (might let you get
chased by a bull or something for fun), be ready to eat bbq ereday (or
catfish, we just licked a catfish farm the otha nite for about 80 pounds
of catfish) and be ready to run from the laws in case they pull a kick
doe!!! We desperados playa, 4REAL™!!! ;-)
Stay UP!!
OT
'...Ain't nuthin but some pirates own this ship!!'