Why do Black youth discourage academic success?
Ant
students in school, you would have read about a troubling trend. Black
students discourage academic achievement in their peers. When a Black
student tries signs up for AP or honors classes, studies hard, or get
high grades, other Black students accuse them of "acting white" or call
them "oreos". It has even gotten to the point where Black kids cannot
speak correct English in front of their Black friends without being
harassed or ridiculed for it. This may be the biggest reason that
Black students lag behind all other races in test scores. We know this
is happening- but the question is why. Why do Black Students tend to
discourage their peers from succeeding in school? I don't see any
reason for it. It makes no sense.
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Lateef Kirk
somebody down other than calling them nerds or geeks or some shit like that
because of their grades but thats in every race i never heard anyone say thir
acting white because of their grades i dont know where the fuck that shit came
from , you might have made it up but regardless thats bullshit
reply to: Latee...@aol.com Murda...@aol.com ICQ#13503160
Da5Venoms
>put
>somebody down other than calling them nerds or geeks or some shit like that
>because of their grades but thats in every race i never heard anyone say
>thir
>acting white because of their grades i dont know where the fuck that shit
>came
>from , you might have made it up but regardless thats bullshit
>
He's not making it up. My ex-girl, my friends, and I had to put up with this
ignorant bullshit all throughout high school. I don't know . . . I do live in
the New York area. So maybe it's a New York thing . . .regardless, it had
nothing to with being a nerd. I played on several sports teams, was invited to
most of the parties and everything. But still, I caught a lot of ice grills
from other brothers and sisters whenever I talked about my college plans,
preparing for SAT's, or even going home to study. White kids, well . . . my
academic performance made them respect me even more. I know it's not that
simple, but I'm saying . . . what this kid is talking about is a real problem.
Da 5th Venom
Rane82
better grades, the people usually getting shitted on are the flunkie
mothafuckas who don't do shit with their lives, I guess we might be smarter
here in philly
Reginald Singletary
and most people were very supportive(I.Q. 135).
Things changed a little bit when I got older and started
hanging with my homies. But the bottomline is you
have to decide what you want out of life. Academic
success is no measuring stick for how good a person
you are but some people get jealous when they realize
that you're probably going to be in a position to earn
a lot of money(which I don't). As long as you stay true to your heritage
and show love for your people, it doesn't matter how you
talk.
Look at Tiger Woods:
Plays Golf
Went to Stanford
Talks "proper"
Dates white girls
Pays tribute to those who paved the way
Works with inner city kids.
No sellout IMHO.
deejay...@webtv.net
out of jail than comin out of college"
Tlalocelotl Tlatoani
____ goes on between other races too, and yeah whites. Seen it with my
own eyes and heard it with my own ears.
-TT
Tlalocelotl Tlatoani
>
> I didn't really apply myself at school until the 11th grade, and when I did,
> my "friends" started bitching about how I was never around anymore and that I
> was acting like I was better than them. I just told all of those guys that I
> was studying because I wanted to do something with my life other than work at
> a McDonald's. After that, none of those guys really hung out with me, but I
> made the right choice because I am now in college, getting decent grades and
> have a future, while those guys still live at home with their parents and have
> dead-end jobs.
>
> There is indeed a certain stigma to being smart and the attitudes cross racial
> lines. When I got serious about school and started hitting the books, I was
> labeled as a nerd and looked down upon as a result. That's one of the reasons
> I like college. If you are smart, you are respected rather than ridiculed.
I guess the positive side of things, placing the race aspect out of it,
is yeah your friends might dis you... maybe people you go to school with
will dis you. But once you're out in the real world you're going to be
around people who respect who you are and what you do.
-TT
THATCAT
it up. But if what you are saying is the common trend of the article then I
must say that the General Media again goes above and beyond the call of
duty in order to place Blacks on a lower level. Without getting into a
whole thing, all I have to say is that most of the "Hardcore" or older
brothers that weren't the best of students or dropped out of school try as
hard as possible to encourage those who they see have the potential to do
well. Now of course there are always losers in every generation and from
what I'm seeing more in the younger generations now than ever that think it
is "cool" to be uneducated and lounge around not doing anything with their
lives. Just like I said I don't feel like getting into it right now but if
you want a more indepth answer E-mail me but for now I'm going to say that
the article is full of crap (based off of your assumptions). With that I'm
going out to peep it for myself.
SpaceOrbit
Even though I'm not black, I can see where this is coming from. It's not
necessarily just black students, but a lot of minorities in general.
Last year I took two AP courses, and I remember hating one, even though I liked
the course. There were practically no minorities in the classroom, and it had
an air to it that I was unaccustomed to. It wasn't that everyone was a nerd,
but it was most of the popular people who came from "good" families and to them
a class with three people from different backgrounds was a class that was
diverse. A reason why I didn't want to attend honors or AP courses was that I
knew that the minority percentage would be lower, and I didn't know how
comfortable I would feel in a situation such as that. Now, I know.
Black students discouraging academic achievement is only one factor of the
equation. No one wants to be called a nerd. No one in high school and middle
school wants to be different. So, rather than excelling themselves, these
young people instead stay and play the roles that today's society expects them
to.
Unfortunately in this world, there isn't a publicized minority Bill Gates in
America, nor is there a multitude of minority role models. It's hard for the
youth to identify with someone academically, but this is more out of society's
color-blindness (as in being blind to people of color) than a severe lack of
people to look up to. There are successful blacks, hispanics and asians and
native americans out there, but you'll have to look hard.
At least, that's one theory.
Another is that minority students face and deal with stereotypes negatively.
For instance, an intelligent young black male could be also a wonderful
basketball player, and that's all that he's known as, the guy on the team, not
as someone who could apply his brain as well as his brawn. He's a victim of
that particular stereotype. I've also read that some asians who can't cope
with being viewed as the "model minority" that they do anything and everything
to rebel against the stereotype that they are good little workers and
super-smart. In their rebelling they hurt themselves trying to prove to
everyone else that they're not your stereotypical asian.
It's crazy. It's all crazy.
Those are just a few ideas that I have that I can put into words.
Peace
NyceStylez
:::tedious talk, this:::
-------
From the Infamous Miss NyceStylez
Subscribe to Hip-Hop's "News You Can Eat" nyces...@hotmail.com
"By sharing your thoughts, you help everyone work toward a new perspective."
David Butler Jr
are doing better than them. Its called jealousy and last time I checked, black
people aren't the only ones who are able to be jealous. I went to a nearly all
white high school and many of them discouraged those students who got good
grades. Instead "acting white" they were acting like "nerds" or "dorks" and so
on. This didn't originate with black people.
"I'll make your hardest tightest rapper brush his teeth with my dick"
--Mystikal
M. Ahmad
Show
>Yeah, black people are the only group who
>does this. All people dog those who are doing
>better than them. Its called jealousy and last
>time I checked, black people aren't the only
>ones who are able to be jealous. I went to a
>nearly all white high school and many of them
>discouraged those students who got good
>grades. Instead "acting white" they were acting
>like "nerds" or "dorks" and so on. This didn't
>originate with black people.
I agree. What I would really like do is read the article before I pass
judgement on it though.
Can the original poster (Ant) let us know what date this appeared in the
NY Times?
S2
Mr Bass
playing football in gym and one black sudent used some 4 or 5 sylabil
word and another black student turned around and said "yo why you tryin'
to talk all white you knows you aint nothin but a nigga like the rest of
us." I also seen several examples of this in highschool. Like the time
one guy told another he was a sell out because he was trying to make
good enough grades to become an FBI agent in the future.
I am not saying that all blacks are this way I am just saying from
several experiences it would seem this does happen a bit. Then again I
have also seen it happen with kids of all races coming from lower and
middle class economic classes. So is it really a result of race or a
cycle of a poverty mentality on people from that type of back ground?
Big Mike
"Me and hip hop on some mariage sh*t like till death do us part/ Its
more than art its whats in my heart/Start a family with kids named
Technics and Rakim/ Feed them Soul Food so they wont be Outkast/
Everlasting will be my dedication to h.e.r /" ~ Me
or...@weiss.che.utexas.edu
Ant <a_p...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> This may be the biggest reason that
> Black students lag behind all other races in test scores.
No. Lack of quality education is why black students lag behind
all other races in test scores. White America has it's own
negative social commentary for their academic achievers, they are
called "Nerds". I'm willing to bet my salary for this year, that
more than half of the rmhh readership falls into this nerd category...
(I know I do, and I'm still down with Urkel till the day I die.)
But White Nerds move run Amazon, Yahoo, and Microsoft, despite the
social stigmatization throughout their early education careers. I'm
sure Bill Gates didn't take the head cheerleader to his prom.. feel me.
But the real reasons for dismal performance can be traced to a couple
of things
- lack of quality education in schools - Lots of schools that are
majority African American or Latino, tend to be the most ramshackle
in the country (Indeed, if you look at schools in poor areas both
urban and rural, I'm sure the test scores won't compare to their
suburban and private school counterparts)
- When minority children are in white majority schools, they often
suffer social stigmatization like the ones that you mention. But more
importantly, a signficant percentage of minority kids in majority school
are labeled learning disabled or requiring special education.
- Minority Parents by and large do not know the school system mechanism,
and how to get better schools, What needs to happen at school, and how
they can help their children with their homework. This is particularly
true of the Black middle class, who have seemingly made it, but don't
really understand how White America truly operates. Indeed, even those
in the best position to help out black students often drop the ball.
(That's part of the reason I tutor for free at my local library)
It is also a sad fact of life that often Black parents do not have good
educations themselves. So when Andre comes home, Mom can't really help
him with his fractions. The other scenario is that the parents don't
have the skills to recognize if Andre really can do math, if he really
can comprehend and understand.
We won't even mention other environmental factors that affect learning,
such as neighborhood culture, lack of jobs, hunger, and countless other
things that plague black america... scratch that, all of America.
So believe, despite being called a nerd throughout my school career,
when I was an honor graduate at high school, all of my black folks were
cheering me on. Even though they cracked on me for those long 13 years,
they knew what time it was at the end of the journey, and were kicking
themselves for not hooking up with me sooner.
peace
k. orr
house of phat beats
or...@weiss.che.utexas.edu
> Another is that minority students face and deal with stereotypes
negatively.
> For instance, an intelligent young black male could be also a
wonderful
> basketball player, and that's all that he's known as, the guy on the
team, not
> as someone who could apply his brain as well as his brawn. H
This is a great point. Often smart black students that are also
athletically talented are tracked into athletics. One of my boys
from School, the only other black person in the top 10 percent, was
trapped in the football program. He was an alright ball player, but he
would have been much more valuable as a scholar. But you know Texas
High School Football...
peace
k. orr
or...@weiss.che.utexas.edu
"Reginald Singletary" <r.j.sin...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> Look at Tiger Woods:
> Plays Golf
> Went to Stanford
> Talks "proper"
> Dates white girls
> Pays tribute to those who paved the way
> Works with inner city kids.
> No sellout IMHO.
But Tiger does not consider himself to be African American, and
prefers to emphasize his multicultural heritage. (and there isn't
anything wrong with that, other than it's very annoying to us Americans
who will see him as Black before we see anything else. )
You don't ever here him say "my name is Eldrick" do you?
peace,
k. orr
house of phat beats
Ant
Yeah, I apologize for not posting a link before. The article is
titled "Reason is Sought By Lag by Blacks in School Effort", and it
appeared front page of the July 4th New York Times. The URL is
http://search.nytimes.com/search/daily/bin/fastweb?
getdoc+site+site+27436+0+wAAA+%22Reason%
Here are some excerps:
"Some of the most compelling insights come from students like Akilah
Rogers, who just completed her junior year at Evanston Township High
School taking advanced placement and accelerated classes, and helped
organize a day of student discussion about minority achievement this
spring.
I would say that the most African-Americans in one of my honors classes
is three," said Akilah, who is 17. Early on, she said, "People were
like, 'Oh, you're an oreo.' Getting good grades was always connected to
white people. So they're like, 'Are you going to be white and
achieve?' "
"Students at Evanston and elsewhere say doing well in school is not
always accepted by their peers.
Fitzroy Dennison, 18, said he was so conscious of the stigma that he
avoided speaking grammatically correct English with friends.
You learn to switch it off," said Fitzroy, whose parents are from
Panama and Belize. "When you're on the streets, you speak Ebonics. When
you're at home, you speak Creole. When you're in school, you speak
proper English. But when you talk too proper, your peers will call you
white and say you're a cracker."
Here are some problems resuling from this:
"At Evanston, 42 percent of the high school's 2,900 students are black.
And while there is poverty here -- about 30 percent of the students,
mostly blacks, receive free or reduced-price lunches -- there is also a
solid black middle class. Evanston provides after-school, summer and
weekend programs for struggling students, and honors and advanced
placement courses are open to any student who wants to enroll.
Still, the numbers at Evanston have been disappointing. A study of the
first semester of the 1997-1998 school year found that nearly 25
percent of black students had failed at least one class, compared with
4 percent of white students. Seven percent of black students' grades
were A's, compared with 25 percent for whites.
In 1996, on a state reading test, 49 percent of African-Americans at
the school were reading below grade level, compared with 9 percent of
whites. And while the college attendance rate of both blacks and whites
here is above the national average, 66 percent of blacks go to college,
compared with 95 percent of whites."
or...@weiss.che.utexas.edu
>If you are smart, you are respected rather than ridiculed.
Respected by who?
Before graduating with a good for nothing liberal arts degree, I spent
my first three years in engineering. Believe me, when everyone around
you took AP calculus, chemistry and biology, the "true" intellects are
reviled and not revered. I'm talking about the whiz kid/wunderkind,
cats who feel more at home at a comic book convention than a club. They
get no kind of love. It all reverts back to high school, but instead of
being the nerd who is out of place, you are just one hundreds of other
former nerds. It's a mutual admiration society, ala cool kids in high
school.
I remember even the professors getting aggravated over Mr. 160 egghead.
It's only after you've made a billion dollars, came up with a new cure
for cancer, that some of the respect comes, and really that's only from
your peers. The other love you get is for the gobs of cash you have
made. (hopefully for yourself, but often for other people)
peace
k. orr
house of phat nerds
peace,
k. orr
house of phat beats
or...@weiss.che.utexas.edu
> Like the time
> one guy told another he was a sell out because he was trying to make
> good enough grades to become an FBI agent in the future.
I could see the law enforcement angle, but not the grades.
peace
k. orr
Omega XL
the outcasts. As an aside, my best and only "friend" was mentally retarded and
he got picked on all the time for it--and the kids picked on me too for having
anything to do with him. While the "popular" kids sat together in masses at
long rows of tables, we sat together at lunch, alone, and we'd talk or do
schoolwork. He was really cool and I thought it was sad that the only stigma
associated with him was the fact that he was in love with one of the prettiest
girls in the school and people called him "Boner" because of that. Personally,
I was always the chubby kid that kept to himself. People would call me Piggy.
I did terribly in school, I would come home with GPA's under 2 and I just felt
like a failure. In 10th grade, I enrolled in a class for "slow" kids. I did
well, earning a 3.0 GPA the first marking period. Thanks to this class and in
no small part to my guidance counselors, I started building up some pride and
self-respect. They made me realize that I was only hurting myself and making
things tough for myself. I still didn't get along with many of the kids, but I
didn't care. In Study Hall, instead of listening to the kids call me Piggy and
joking about me and throwing erasers and whatnot at me, I'd crack the books and
study extra hard or spend time with the English and Math tutors. At the end of
my Sophomore year, I had raised my cumulative GPA to 2.6 I was also known as
the Spanish king because I would have more credit than was possible in the
class (I scored perfect on everything and did extra credit). The kids in my
Spanish class started accepting me and I guess that once the other kids saw
this, they eased up too. It wasn't like we were great friends, but I at least
felt like I was part of the school. I was no longer Piggy, the kid that
everyone wanted to beat up for the hell of it, I was Ignacio the Spanish
master. In my Junior and Senior years, I skipped levels in Spanish and English
and enrolled in Advanced Placement courses. Now, the kids that called me
"stupid" because I was in the slow class were the ones that were coming to me
for help with their work and begging me to be in their project groups.
To end this story, I just want to say that nothing felt better than getting up
on stage and getting that diploma after I thought I'd never see the day. I
ended up with a 3.8 cumulative high school GPA and that carried onto college
where I maintained a 3.6 GPA. So, although it's true that some kids malign
others for being successful, being on the opposite end of the spectrum is just
as bad, I can attest to that. High school is only 4 years long. I know that
seems like a long time but it comes and goes like it was nothing. And all of
the people you were cool with in high school aren't going to be there once
you're in college and out in the real world. Just do what you have to do and
don't let people drag you down, no matter what race or gender or nationality
they are.
Dave P
http://soljaz4life.simplenet.com
http://soljaz4life.simplenet.com/loh
E-mail me at Omega X...@aol.com or DAPa...@aol.com
alan dickson
Ant <a_p...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:7lti0g$lfd$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> When a Black
> student tries signs up for AP or honors classes, studies hard, or get
> high grades, other Black students accuse them of "acting white" or call
> them "oreos".
Nah, you've been watching Jenny Jones too much. The episode intitled "Act
your colour" or something like that. Where white people acted too "black"
as they thought that they came from "the hood", and black people sounded and
acted "white" which their friends didn't like.
The purpose of school is to ultimately do well, and achieve as high a grade
as possible, whilst doing the least amount of work possible. Those who
don't do the work (and get shit grades) are the ones that everyone laughs
at, them and the *strange* kids (whether they are clever or not). If people
do the work, but are generally not clever, then so be it, at least they try.
The fact is that you and your peers all act differently depending on who
you are, the situation that you are in, and not what you look like.
Peace
--
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'arse'." - NyceStylez
"Alan Dickson, why that guy's the coolest cat on the block." - NyceStylez
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NyceStylez
"I almost love you alan, except you're a bloke" - dj applesauce
Alan Dickson
aland...@mailcity.com - use if replying does not work
Tre2
wrote:
>Even though I'm not black, I can see where this is coming from. It's not
>necessarily just black students, but a lot of minorities in general.
I don't know about in the US, but this shit happens in the UK all the
time. But here it's not a race thing, people just get ridiculed if
they do well at school. It encourages people to do bad just to fit in.
Tr...@FreeUK.Com
www.tre2.clara.net
Rane82
>For instance, an intelligent young black male could be also a wonderful
>basketball player, and that's all that he's known as, the guy on the team,
>not
>that particular stereotype
I can relate to this...
before I hit high school, I was a little dumb motherfucker doing dumb shit with
other dumb motherfucker...
well, I hit high school, and Im a big boy, so the football coach stopped me in
the hallway the first day of school and asked me to come to that practice, he
said if I didn't like it, he wouldn't bother me again...so I went to practice,
and I LOVED it, but the only thing was I wasn't used to playing organized
sports...so the coach put me on jv this year, not to brag, but when that first
jv game came, I injured two people in the first quarter...the coach said fuck
that, he's playing varsity...and so I got a little bit of playing time,not
enough to establish myself though, so I started slipping again...once again, I
was a dumb motherfucker doing stupid things with other dumb motherfuckers, I
probably showed up at practice at least once a week and I showed up on game
days, all the other days I was out getting high with these other thugged out
cats, doing dumb shit, causing trouble, etc....well, the end of the first
marking period came around and I wasn't eligable for football, so I was so mad
at the world instead of being mad at myself, so I just said fuck it, stopped
going to school for awhile...but I came to some senses and finished the year
with a d average...next season came around, and I had a starting spot, to this
day, there is no feeling that can compare to playing in an organized football
game in front of a crowd, not sex, not getting high, not drinking, absolutely
nothing...so Im doing my thing on the field, but I still haven't completely
come to my senses, Im still doing dumb shit with dumb motherfuckers, now when I
started starting in every football game...I started noticing something...girls
was starting to dig me, so I thougt damn, Im a broke nigga, I could never show
a girl a goodtime if Im a broke nigga...so I started selling weed and I sold
coke losely, I'd say about three of four times a month I would hustle coke,
whereas I would hustle weed everyday, so Im starting to get pussy on a regular
basis, running trains with two of my best friends from the football team and
shit...and by the end of the football season, around when basketball season
started...I noticed these girls hanging around with the basketball players
quite often, and I realized these bitches only liked us for our popularity, so
I just said fuck bitches, and I went without pussy the rest of the school year,
but I couldn't stop selling drugs, the money is LOVELY (I actually think
selling weed is more addicting than smoking it) we're talking 400 on a good
night, 200 on an average night...and near the end of my sophmore year, I got
pinched and since it was only my first offence, they gave me house arrest,
that's how I got my computer, my uncle gave it to me and said here, you know
you gonna be bored and he hooked me up with aol too....I couldn't look my
family in the eye no more, I was so ashamed...and I started realizing my
friends wasn't hanging out with me no more, noone even came to visit me, I
couldn't go off my porch...I couldn't run around and cause trouble with them,
so they stopped chillin', fuck 'em I thought (these kinda people are so
convincing though, you'll find out about that later)
so it's like june, Im on house arrest til febuary and there was only two things
I could focus on...school and football, so I was passing school with a breeze,
doing better than ever in football (I was on tv and in the paper a couple
times) it was cool, I was a nerd nigga...because of the publicity I had, I
became more and more popular but I was probably one of the quietest persons in
the school, didn't chill with many peeps or nothing..febuary rolls around, the
first day off house arrest, some of the peeps Iused to hang with greet me with
6 ounces of weed...smiling and all, they're convincing"yo man, we wasplanning
this!" "nah, we wasn't ignoring you" etc. so I start getting into a bad weed
habit...don't believe people when they tell you weed isn't addictive, Im proof
it is, it started out once a week...then twice a week...then three times, etc.
pretty soon, I was smoking weed everyday but I was still going to
school...well, except for the last two periods that is, chemistry and sat prep,
and ever since the season was over, I was getting letters by no name colleges
divsion 2 and 3 and shit...and around the middle of may, I get a letter from
OHIO STATE and Im like damn, shit, and Im excited and shit..so I talk to my
coach and he told me chemistry is mandatory for college...so I quit weed and
start coming to chemistry, and my teacher told me it was about impossible for
me to pass cause I missed 3 days already...Im months behind in work and my the
time the end of the year comes around, I find out I fail the 11th grade, Im
thinking damn, luckily for me, summer school is free this year, so Im going for
chemistry and if I pass this chemistry, then I'll be cool...in twelth next
year...so now here we are in the present and chemistry is SOOO fucking EASY, if
my dumb ass would have came to class all year, I would be chillin right now,
but Im stuck in class 2 hours a day, happy to say I know now Im completely
through with weed, I've turned down at least 20 blunts in rotation over these
months...and that's hard to do, and now Im more focused on going to college,
and playing ball, majoring in athletic traingin and sports journalism, and
minoring in coaching theory, those are fall backs, cause it's pretty hard to
get in the nfl, it doesn't matter if Im 6'7, 315 lbs., there's probably 5'7 250
lbs. people better than me, you may have noticed my majors and minors have to
do with sports...I know Im not a dumb nigga, but sports and writing rhymes is
all Im good at...when I was in like 6th-8th grade, I read alot of stephen king
books and he inspired me to write alot of short stories, but I haven't written
a short story since 8th grade... and plus, football is my love...the most
serious altimatum anyone could ever give me is choosing between hip hop and
football...but if someone had the power to banish either football or hip hop,
and they let the choice rest on my shoulders...ya'll wouldn't have a newsgroup
no more :o)
anyways...my point is...I was one of the quietest, nerdiest mothafuckas in
school (when I did go) and got a shitload of respect, but I watched other nerds
who didn't play sports get shitted on everyday
why should nerdy athletes get more respect than people who are just nerds?
by the way, people respect me that Im interested in academics because I wanna
play ball...I wonder if they would respect me if I wasn't playing ball and was
just a nerdy nigga...
sorry for the length of this post, I had alot to say
KSG
> In article <7lti0g$lfd$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> Ant <a_p...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > This may be the biggest reason that
> > Black students lag behind all other races in test scores.
>
> No. Lack of quality education is why black students lag behind
> all other races in test scores. White America has it's own
> negative social commentary for their academic achievers, they are
> called "Nerds". I'm willing to bet my salary for this year, that
> more than half of the rmhh readership falls into this nerd category...
> (I know I do, and I'm still down with Urkel till the day I die.)
True... this "acting white" thing is vastly overplayed... especially by the
media. It's easy to blame the problem on other blacks thereby ignoring the
problems that rest on the shoulders of institutions that were never meant to
teach us from the jump. Note: this isn't too say that there aren't internal
issues as well.
> But White Nerds move run Amazon, Yahoo, and Microsoft, despite the
> social stigmatization throughout their early education careers. I'm
> sure Bill Gates didn't take the head cheerleader to his prom.. feel me.
On a related sidenote. Bill Gates lack of success with women is legendary.
I'm sure this has all changed now.
> - lack of quality education in schools - Lots of schools that are
> majority African American or Latino, tend to be the most ramshackle
> in the country
The property tax based system in Cali certainly don't help.
> - When minority children are in white majority schools, they often
> suffer social stigmatization like the ones that you mention. But more
> importantly, a signficant percentage of minority kids in majority school
> are labeled learning disabled or requiring special education.
Excellent point.
> - Minority Parents by and large do not know the school system mechanism,
> and how to get better schools, What needs to happen at school, and how
> they can help their children with their homework. This is particularly
> true of the Black middle class, who have seemingly made it, but don't
> really understand how White America truly operates. Indeed, even those
> in the best position to help out black students often drop the ball.
> (That's part of the reason I tutor for free at my local library)
Another good point. When I was coming up (being the first child) my parents
really had very little clue and my counselors sure weren't concerned about
me. Fortunately, of all people, a librarian happened across me and was able
to greatly help out when it comes to maneuvering through the system. (For
example, I still see kids who don't take the PSAT their junior year...
that's where a lot of the money is. I was offered like five full ride
scholarships through it, but I almost didn't take it since I heard that only
the SATs count toward admissions.). Now my sister, seven years my junior,
has my experience and knowledge to help her out. These little things can
prove to be invaluable.
> We won't even mention other environmental factors that affect learning,
> such as neighborhood culture, lack of jobs, hunger, and countless other
> things that plague black america... scratch that, all of America.
And while these things plague America it is especially insidious in the
black community. For example have an 8% unemployment rate in the black
community. If that was the unemployment rate of the population in general
we'd be hearing every night on the news about us being in a massive
recession.
--
Peace,
KSG
Droppin' Science in REAL AUDIO on KSDT Sundays 8pm-10pm (PST)
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iLLosophy
read about it.....
iLLosophy
> I'm
> sure Bill Gates didn't take the head cheerleader to his prom.. feel me.
The way they had his character on that TNT movie, I don't even he knew what prom
was....
supastar
in the class of 30. By no means did I nor the other black student get great
grades but I did enough to graduate. Since we are in Canada the class was
made of about 70% ethnic minorities(Asian, Black Indian Europian) and 30%
white immigrants and several generation Canadians). Most of the students
called me by my name and many joked about how "white" I was. I would
usually smile and add to the joke. My "whiteness" was based mainly on the
manner in which I spoke. I didn't notice the other black kid getting labled
in this manner and I feel it was because he may have portrayed the
stereotypical black man in their eye; not interested greatly in school, low
marks, athletic, and interested in hip hop (some of these things catergorize
myself) but because I spoke more proper english(at least that is what i
think they believed) I was deemed to be more "white". This stigma must be
changed and I believe that black people must turn to education in order to
be taken more seriously and that this type of harrasment as described in the
NY times does occur.
iLLosophy <gpri...@uiuc.edu> wrote in message
news:3783ADAB...@uiuc.edu...
Soam Acharya
> In article <7luj9c$o5s$1...@news.cc.ukans.edu>,
>
> >If you are smart, you are respected rather than ridiculed.
>
> Respected by who?
>
> Before graduating with a good for nothing liberal arts degree, I spent
> my first three years in engineering. Believe me, when everyone around
[snipped]
> being the nerd who is out of place, you are just one hundreds of other
> former nerds. It's a mutual admiration society, ala cool kids in high
> school.
Let me see if I understand you Kari - in Engineering, the students hang
out with each other, they respect each other. But they are still reviled
outside the confines of the Engineering quads. So, in the end, they have
to pat each other on their backs because no one else will. Hence, their
situation remains the same as nerds in high school (and black students
that get clowned because of their desire to succeed).
There are a couple of differences though with the undergrads in
engineering, I think. First of all, if you are in one of the hotter
areas, you are greatly in demand. Anything computer related, you have
recruiters breathing down your neck. That's when the payback for being
a nerd for all these years comes through - all your artsy friends are
busy scrambling for loans for business school or are now picking up
Javascript while you get that $40K a year plus offer. This does not
ease your social life in the interim which brings me to the second
point. There's an incredible subculture that, in some sense, unites
all the nerds in the various college campuses together. I mean scifi -
books, movies, comics ... This is kinda ironic. One part of mainstream
Hollywood makes films like "Short Circuit" and "Revenge of the Nerds."
Stuff that shows that nerds are socially backward two left handed
half blind misfits. Another section makes Star Trek flicks, "Johnny
Mnemonic," and "The Matrix." It might be a mutual appreciation society
but it has a lot of members still.
> I remember even the professors getting aggravated over Mr. 160 egghead.
> It's only after you've made a billion dollars, came up with a new cure
> for cancer, that some of the respect comes, and really that's only from
> your peers. The other love you get is for the gobs of cash you have
> made. (hopefully for yourself, but often for other people)
This could also be partly due to the fear of technology that runs through
America. The common people are not likely to trust things they do not
understand. Right now, as you say, Bill Gates and Steve Jobs can get movies
made about them ("Pirates of Silicon Valley") but deep down, I think
there's distrust of computers and people who run them. If there are enough
viruses, stock market crashes or phone switch breakdowns, public opinion
could easily turn against the technocrats. And by the way, I didn't think
the portrayal of either Bill or Steve were too flattering in the film.
Money can buy you positive press but only up to a point.
Good to see you back consistently Kari. Certainly gets me out of lurk mode.
soam_acharya cornell edu "Posto ergo sum"
at dot http://www.cs.cornell.edu/home/soam/
or...@weiss.che.utexas.edu
soa...@Kornell.edu (Soam Acharya) wrote:
> Let me see if I understand you Kari - in Engineering, the students
hang
> out with each other, they respect each other.
No. There is a stratification even among the engineering cats. There
are racial/class/and pretty much your standard socioeconomic divisions.
But in terms of people respecting you because of your intellect, my
experience has been that is a fantasy. The kids I met, who were really
on point, didn't get any love for truly understanding. The vast
majority of the folks in engineering cliqued up using other factors than
intelligent.
But they are still
reviled
> outside the confines of the Engineering quads. So, in the end, they
have
> to pat each other on their backs because no one else will. Hence,
their
> situation remains the same as nerds in high school (and black students
> that get clowned because of their desire to succeed).
Outside of the College of Engineering, engineering students are regarded
as nerds. At UT, that designation is reserved for the Plan II/Honors
program folks. And the classic highschool definition of nerd is also
still in effect.
This does not
> ease your social life in the interim which brings me to the second
> point. There's an incredible subculture that, in some sense, unites
> all the nerds in the various college campuses together.
True that.
> Good to see you back consistently Kari. Certainly gets me out of lurk
mode.
Good to be back. I'm trying to hook up my own computer in the next
month or so, so that I can go back to reading the newsgroup the way
God/Allah/Yahweh/ELHM/Jehovah/Jah intended. With a newsreader, not some
damn web interface.
peace
k. orr
house of phat beats
sfl...@pobox.com
or...@weiss.che.utexas.edu wrote:
> But the real reasons for dismal performance can be traced to a couple
> of things
>
> suffer social stigmatization like the ones that you mention. But
> more importantly, a signficant percentage of minority kids in
> majority school are labeled learning disabled or requiring special
> education.
This is sooo true.
A friend of mine was often sent to the Principal's office and viewed
as a troublemaker throughout the earlier grades in high school (he
really wasn't). Luckily his parents were very supportive of him and
gave the school more than it's share of headaches due to these
accusations by Teachers, Counsellors, Senior Administrators, etc...
He's now in his 3rd year of Computer Science at Carleton University.
But we were chatting the other day about all those other students (in
his position) who didn't have parents who "understood the system" or
weren't supportive of their child (i.e. they figured something was
wrong with their child). I see so many people who could have done SOOO
much better if they had just a little more support & help from the
school system (or simply treated as equals with the rest of the
students).
It's amazing, but this seems to happen in EVERY high school that
features mostly white students (and white teachers & administration).
But most people really have no idea that this is going on...
Sean.
Ross A Macwhinney
well educated people in your everyday life exposes you to decision
making processes, more eloquent language use, and just more ideas in
general. This is especially important for children early on in their
lives. It's not only that Andre's parents can't help him with his
school work, it's that they haven't been able to teach him much of what
well educated parents teach their kids from birth. I'm not talking
about the parents home schooling an infant. I'm talking about the
children being exposed to higher intellectual levels by just overhearing
and witnesseing their parents' discussions and behavior.
This leaves Andre at a disadvantage when he gets to school and has to
learn alongside the kids who are, by now, weilding more developed
learning techniques and have a larger base of reference. Then Andre
gets frustrated when others are picking up the material faster than he
is => feedback loop => can make him give up. tough situation.
rossm
Excerpts from netnews.rec.music.hip-hop: 7-Jul-99 Re: Why do Black youth
disc.. by or...@weiss.che.utexas.ed
Michael Noschese
went to a Catholic school in the Bronx where the racial makeup was
something like, 60% white 40% Black/Hispanic. Overall I would say that
minorities did better than whites. Of the 12 kids admitted to Ivy League
schools in my class, 9 were minorities. Very few had any type of
behavioral problems, since I spent most of high school in detention I can
state that it was always predominantly white, 95% or so. White kids
screwed around more, didn't hand in homework, cheated on tests and
generally acted up. I can't really explain why, most likely minority kids
were more motivated. It doesn't have as much to do with income level,
there were a lot of poor white kids. It is worth noting because it goes
against everything being mentioned in this thread.
LaBlancita
Society, in a large way, nurtues us/makes us to be who we are. Lets say, for
simplicity and in the context of this discussion, that it boils down to success
for whites and the opposite for blacks.
This can be put into the school situation: whites are expected to succeed and
blacks arent.
Now, we all know that basically the reason people make fun of/rag on/ put down
other people is due to their own insecurity/jealousy, whatever. This is
especially true/popular among kids.
So when a one black student sees another suceeding for whatever reason, it is
not that he DOESNT want to suceed himself, ihe in fact DOES but doesnt know how
to/hasnt been given the opportunity to/has low self esteem about his potential,
and therefore puts the other kid down to make himself feel better.
And what better way to diss sombody then say they are acting white?? (Besides
the fact that they ARE suceeding)
Remember Im being very general here, and there are many many exceptions to this
rule.....
_Who Are You?_
"NOTICE: Persons attempting to find a motive in this narrative will be
prosecuted; persons attempting to find a moral in it will be banished; persons
attempting to find a plot will be shot." (Mark Twain)
Spirit68
>experience has been that is a fantasy
Yo, Kari, didn't you say you were considering law school? I would like to say
that my experience at Howard Law has been that intellect is respected. Maybe
because Howard has the big civil rights rep or whatever, so there's a general
love fest going on, but the really smart cats do get looked up to.
I felt the same thing about Howard undergrad. It is assumed that the smart kids
are going somewhere. Of course, in undergrad, my respect level was affected by
the fact that I had a wild Afro and wooly beard, making me appear to be one of
those "dangerous blacks". Hahahahha. Now that I am clean shaven, I am ready to
enter the bourgesis and am accepted as a potential future buppie. Heh.
Peace,
Spirit
Spread Love/Amphibians
The Amphibians' debut single "Lettuce (Entertain You)" b/w "Journey" is
available NOW, on vinyl ($5) and cassettes ($3), add $2 for shipping tapes, $3
for shipping vinyl. E-mail me for more details...
Spirit68
>example, I still see kids who don't take the PSAT their junior year...
>that's where a lot of the money is. I was offered like five full ride
>scholarships through it,
SAY WORD!
I pull young cats aside all the time and preach that gospel.