MURS is embarassing.
beezer
I can't understand gorwn men listening to him.
Self-absorbed kids? yes. Grown men? Grown men I respect the taste of?
Damn.
That is all.
bse
chak daddy dollar$
@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com:
he;s the only living legend i like
--
"Al Jefferson is a scientist." - Mark Jackson
R!cky
dudes. I'm not into anticon, but Murs can't afford to be a dipshit with the
image he's trying to pull off as "I'm a cool laid back skateboarder". I'm
really not into the "skateboard" rap shit. I think it's all lame. Lupe,
POS, Murs....
I saw this on the Sopranos last nite...
Q - "What's the worst thing about being a skateboarder?"
A - "Having to admit to your parents that you're gay..."
"beezer" <bee...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1175204346.4...@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
Brown Hornet
This is one of the rare rappers where I'll see the tracklist in a
compilation and actually check the song out while ignoring the
others. I think it's those MURS and 9th Wonder collabo albums that
made me check him out (no homo). What don't you like about the guy?
I know some of the songs are just corny but some of them are actually
good.
Jay Sidhu
- = k O e N s = -
he's good. i like him. depends if you like atmosphere i guess. which i
do. not as much as i did maybe but i can relate to the late 20s early
30s white hip hop guy getting fucked over by and fucking over chicks,
that's me in a nutshell i guess. plus i like they flows and beats and
humour. and he ripped it out of no where at the atmosphere gig a
couple years back when no one even know he was supposed to be there.
plus my ex was standing right next to me ignoring me...
- = k O e N s = -
> Yeah I read an article about him being a dickhead to one of the anticon
> dudes. I'm not into anticon, but Murs can't afford to be a dipshit with the
> image he's trying to pull off as "I'm a cool laid back skateboarder". I'm
> really not into the "skateboard" rap shit. I think it's all lame. Lupe,
> POS, Murs....
>
> I saw this on the Sopranos last nite...
>
> Q - "What's the worst thing about being a skateboarder?"
> A - "Having to admit to your parents that you're gay..."
that's funny, as skateboarders 18 years ago we used to use that same
joke but about rollerbladers...
R!cky
"- = k O e N s = -" <spe...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1175254949....@y66g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> not as much as i did maybe but i can relate to the late 20s early
> 30s white hip hop guy getting fucked over by and fucking over chicks,
> that's me in a nutshell i guess.
hahaha Then I guess I can relate to you. And we both can relate to Sage
Francis?
beezer
> he's good. i like him. depends if you like atmosphere i guess.
Not much. I liked some of the first EP but never felt the need for
more. Bought a couple more records from them and then gave them away.
>which i
> do. not as much as i did maybe but i can relate to the late 20s early
> 30s white hip hop guy getting fucked over by and fucking over chicks,
> that's me in a nutshell i guess.
Thats the thing see, that doesn't work for me at all. My relationships
with women preclude me from being as simlistic and bitter as him. Most
women I've been out with have overly depended on me for support and
not quite given me the nourishment I need in life but I'm not like
"fuck that bitch", even when shit gets dark. What kind of retard is
gonna carry on like that and still expect to be taken serously as an
intelligent and introspective man?
> plus i like they flows and beats and
> humour. and he ripped it out of no where at the atmosphere gig a
> couple years back when no one even know he was supposed to be there.
> plus my ex was standing right next to me ignoring me...
Heh. Yeah some of those 9th beats are nice.
I guess thats it then. He's singing someone's pain, its just not mine.
bse
R!cky
>> do. not as much as i did maybe but i can relate to the late 20s early
>> 30s white hip hop guy getting fucked over by and fucking over chicks,
>> that's me in a nutshell i guess.
>
> Thats the thing see, that doesn't work for me at all. My relationships
> with women preclude me from being as simlistic and bitter as him. Most
> women I've been out with have overly depended on me for support and
> not quite given me the nourishment I need in life
I can totally relate...
> but I'm not like "fuck that bitch", even when shit gets dark.
Shiiiit.. I am. Give me 2 drinks of whiskey, and just think about asking
me 1 question about my ex.. I may go on for 2-3 hours
>What kind of retard is gonna carry on like that and still expect to be
>taken serously as an intelligent and introspective man?
I'm gonna be the first to pull it off...
- = k O e N s = -
> "- = k O e N s = -" <spel...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:1175254949....@y66g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > not as much as i did maybe but i can relate to the late 20s early
> > 30s white hip hop guy getting fucked over by and fucking over chicks,
> > that's me in a nutshell i guess.
>
> hahaha Then I guess I can relate to you. And we both can relate to Sage
> Francis?
yeah i like some sage, some of his shit hits, some doesn't, i like
most of healthy distrust. saw him at dedbeat a couple
years back, a girl i know put me on to him, he was pretty good live,
just him and a cd player..
R!cky
> yeah i like some sage, some of his shit hits, some doesn't, i like
> most of healthy distrust. saw him at dedbeat a couple
> years back, a girl i know put me on to him, he was pretty good live,
> just him and a cd player..
>
I honestly didn't like him until Healthy Distrust (he picked the right beats
to work with on that album). . ....Which was about same time I first saw
him live w/ only a portable cd player on the beats. I'm hardcore Sage fan
now. He's probably the funnest hip hop show I've been to. Everytime he
does "Dance Monkey", it's funny as hell. The broccoli fights are fun too.
The past few Halloweens he's played here, in Tempe. So I've seen him break
out his Spiderman, Superman, and Evil Kneival costumes. Not your typical
hip hop show....
TJ Xenos
> On 30 Mar, 12:42, "- = k O e N s = -" <spel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > he's good. i like him. depends if you like atmosphere i guess.
>
> Not much. I liked some of the first EP but never felt the need for
> more. Bought a couple more records from them and then gave them away.
>
> >which i
> > do. not as much as i did maybe but i can relate to the late 20s early
> > 30s white hip hop guy getting fucked over by and fucking over chicks,
> > that's me in a nutshell i guess.
>
> Thats the thing see, that doesn't work for me at all. My relationships
> with women preclude me from being as simlistic and bitter as him. Most
> women I've been out with have overly depended on me for support and
> not quite given me the nourishment I need in life but I'm not like
> "fuck that bitch", even when shit gets dark. What kind of retard is
> gonna carry on like that and still expect to be taken serously as an
> intelligent and introspective man?
Co-sign. Seriously, how the fuck you gonna front like your deep when
your life in large part consists of fucking over other people? Live
it, then sing it.
- = k O e N s = -
>
> Co-sign. Seriously, how the fuck you gonna front like your deep when
> your life in large part consists of fucking over other people? Live
> it, then sing it.
i've never heard atmosphere say 'i'm deep' he just seems to rap about
his life,
which seems to be getting fucked over by a girl or girls, probably
being a bastard back,
trying to pick up girls. getting drunk, and does it pretty well. kinda
like bukowski. he
was a poet of his time...
a lot realer than a lot of these studio gangsta/player/whatevers these
days, shit gets tired.
saw state property 2 yesterday, that shit is straight ridiculous...
They love the taste of blood
Now I don't know what that means, but I know that I mean it
Maybe they're as evil as they seem
Or maybe I only look out the window when it's scenic
"Atmosphere finally made a good record."
Yeah right, that shit almost sounds convincing
The last time I felt a sinking contradictive as this
Was the last time we played a show in Cinnci'
"Get real." they tell me
If only they knew how real this life really gets
They would stop acting like a silly bitch
They would respect the cock whether or not they believed in it
Doesn't take much and that's messed up
Because these people do a lot of simple shit to impress us
While everyone was trying to out-do the last man
I was just a ghost trying to catch someone's[summers?] Pac-man
Hello ma'am, would you be into restin'
In some sexual positions and emotional investments
See, I'm not insane, in fact I'm kind of rational
When I be askin', "Yo, where did all the passion go?"
East coast, West coast, down South, Midwest
Nowadays everybody knows how to get fresh
Somebody give me a big yes (YES!)
God Bless America, but she stole the B from "Bless" (Accept it)
Now I'm too fucked up to dance
So I'ma sit with my hand down the front of my pants
You can't achieve your goals if you don't take that chance
So go pry open that trunk and get those amps (You know!)
[Chorus x2]
In the days of Kings and Queens I was a jester
Treat me like a God, oh they treat me like a leper
You see me move back and forth between both
I'm trying to find a balance
I'm trying to build a balance
[Slug]
So now I keep a close eye on my pets
Because they make most of they moves off of instinct and sense
It's eat, sleep, fuck in self defense
So straight you can set your clocks and place bets
Wait, let's prey on blind, deaf, dumb, dead
Hustle, maybe a couple will love what you said
Emcees drag their feet across a big naked land
With an empty bag of seed and a fake shake of hands
Yeah I got some last words, FUCK ALL OF YA'LL!
Stop writin' raps and go play volleyball
Gotta journey the world in a hurry
Cause my attorney didn't put enough girls on the jury
Guilty of droppin' these bombs in the city
But I'm innocent, love is the motive that's why you're killin 'em
Guilty of settin' my fire in all fifty
But I'm innocent, blame it on my equilibrium
[Chorus x2]
In the days of Kings and Queens I was a jester
Treat me like a God, oh they treat me like a leper
You see me move back and forth between both
I'm trying to find a balance
I'm trying to build a balance
I gotta find my balance
I gotta find my balance
[Slug]
Now all my friends are famous
It's either one thing or another
They all don't know what my name is
Probably know both of my brothers
The one is a hard workin' savior
The other's a hard workin' soldier
I'm just your next door neighbor
Workin' hard at tryin' to stay sober
You wait for the car at the corner
Pretend like you know what the pot is
Won't quit till I hit California
And make you my Golden State goddess
TJ Xenos
> On Apr 2, 9:05 am, "TJ Xenos" <talvi...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Co-sign. Seriously, how the fuck you gonna front like your deep when
> > your life in large part consists of fucking over other people? Live
> > it, then sing it.
>
> i've never heard atmosphere say 'i'm deep' he just seems to rap about
> his life,
> which seems to be getting fucked over by a girl or girls, probably
> being a bastard back,
> trying to pick up girls. getting drunk, and does it pretty well. kinda
> like bukowski. he
> was a poet of his time...
>
> a lot realer than a lot of these studio gangsta/player/whatevers these
> days, shit gets tired.
>
> saw state property 2 yesterday, that shit is straight ridiculous...
Bukowski never claimed to be a revolutionary or "conscious"
alternative to his competition while being every bit of the scumbag
they were. Bukowski was openly a scumbag. A dude who's whole steeze
is getting over at any cost, I find it much easier to accept treating
other people shittily.
mattmatical
>> > Co-sign. eriously, how the fuck you gonna front like your deep when
>> > your life in large part consists of fucking over other people? ive
>> > it, then sing it.
>>
>> i've never heard atmosphere say 'i'm deep' he just seems to rap about
>> his life,
>> which seems to be getting fucked over by a girl or girls, probably
>> being a bastard back,
>> trying to pick up girls. getting drunk, and does it pretty well. kinda
>> like bukowski. he
>> was a poet of his time...
>>
>> a lot realer than a lot of these studio gangsta/player/whatevers these
>> days, shit gets tired.
>>
>> saw state property 2 yesterday, that shit is straight ridiculous...
>
>Bukowski never claimed to be a revolutionary or "conscious"
>alternative to his competition while being every bit of the scumbag
>they were. Bukowski was openly a scumbag. A dude who's whole steeze
>is getting over at any cost, I find it much easier to accept treating
>other people shittily.
Is this about MURS or Slug? Neither gives me the
impression of advertising himself as being a
conscious alternative (maybe their fans are).
At least if we consider the usual battle rhetoric
to be just that (even if it contains the occasional
hint at them being deeper than competition).
From what I get both are quite proud of being
self-obsessed, messed up dudes. That doesn't
mean they can't offer the type of introspection
and observation that you usually wouldn't get
from inconsiderate assholes. It's called art.
Why is it these two suddenly gotta live up to
moral standards other rappers don't have to
live up to?
Matt
"Ich gsehn Illegali hustle im Nachbarshuus
ich gsehn Arbetslosi mit Talänt nüt mache drus
ich gsehn Droge bunkeret i Bluemebeet
gsehn falschi Vorbilder wo me Meitli und Buebe lehrt"
- = k O e N s = -
>
> Bukowski never claimed to be a revolutionary or "conscious"
> alternative to his competition while being every bit of the scumbag
> they were.
funny, i don't recall slug ever claiming that either...
Bukowski was openly a scumbag. A dude who's whole steeze
> is getting over at any cost, I find it much easier to accept treating
> other people shittily.
i don't know if you're reading to much into it or not enough. i don't
think he hides his
faults. that's exactly it, he opens them up and his wounds and
mistakes and successes
and delivers them with observational humour of dope beats.
personally i find that a bit more refreshing than describing how many
guns someone has
and how they kill all their enemies and how much rock they grind...
but then i don't dig on
c&s or grime either...
in fact i find it weird that if you read bukowski you don't dig slug
anyways murs aint on the same tip exactly but he and slug vibe well
together...
you know what, i mostly just heard him on felt records and only
checked for him after seeing him rip
it live but most of the felt stuff is just rhymes about girls, except
maybe this;
"The problem with hip-hop... shit nothing at all
It's an artform that ranges and it changes it evolves
It's not always for the better, but be patient with it yall
For our time will come and the wicked will fall
The problem with this song, is it's not long enough to say
How fucked up it is that we living this way
Nothing is alright, but everything is okay
So we plan for tomorrow but we live for today..." --- murs
- = k O e N s = -
thank you matt, you articulated that way better than i could have...
> Why is it these two suddenly gotta live up to
> moral standards other rappers don't have to
> live up to?
ditto
TJ Xenos
> personally i find that a bit more refreshing than describing how many
> guns someone has
> and how they kill all their enemies and how much rock they grind...
> but then i don't dig on
> c&s or grime either...
I'd rather hear about someones life thats semi-relevant to me, than
someone's life that sounds like my own....when I was 15. As for
killing all their enemies, show me one rapper other than prodigy that
is seriously on that? Most cats that rhyme about guns rhyme about
carrying for protection. As for selling drugs, fuck, man, what's
realer than work? Wasn't kanye's most propped song the one he wrote
about working? I think its fucked up that rappers are considered to
be deeper based on how deeply the critic chooses to look into their
work. It's like the minute you mention guns or drugs, it can't
possibly be a metaphor, it HAS to be taken at face value.
> in fact i find it weird that if you read bukowski you don't dig slug
I havent read bukowski since the 90s, but I dont recall him ever
coming across as trying to be the victim or self-pitying.
> anyways murs aint on the same tip exactly but he and slug vibe well
> together...
>
> you know what, i mostly just heard him on felt records and only
> checked for him after seeing him rip
> it live but most of the felt stuff is just rhymes about girls, except
> maybe this;
Exactly, and it mostly comes off as self-pitying, as if he doenst
deserve to get dogged out by girls when he rhymes about doing shit
jsut as shitty to women. These dudes who whine about how bad they get
treated by women, and yet do shit I'd never do to a girl in a million
years. You dug your grave, now lie in it and stop fronting like you
didnt deserve it. It's liek the token song on every devin record
where he fucks around on his woman and then she leaves him, except
without the humor and "NOW! WITH 100% MORE SELF-PITY!" like one of
those stickers on the box of cereal ad nauseum.
> "The problem with hip-hop... shit nothing at all
> It's an artform that ranges and it changes it evolves
> It's not always for the better, but be patient with it yall
> For our time will come and the wicked will fall
> The problem with this song, is it's not long enough to say
> How fucked up it is that we living this way
> Nothing is alright, but everything is okay
> So we plan for tomorrow but we live for today..." --- murs
Seriously, fuck this dude. If hiphop is gonna get better when this
dude is on top, please kill me when that happens. I dont ever want
shit to improve by this "27 syllables a line but only 2 rhyme because
I'm too busy whining about the shittiness of the women who're willing
to go for my herb ass" clown being on top. Seriously, the late 80s
and early 90s fucking killed nowadays, if only because back when it
wasnt ok for suburban white dudes to rap, you'd get one crappy emo/
indie rock band for every four or five of these herbs that did drama
in highschool. Now they all have solo rap careers and put out records
on the same crappy indie rock labels.
TJ Xenos
> > Why is it these two suddenly gotta live up to
> > moral standards other rappers don't have to
> > live up to?
>
> ditto
The only moral standards I expect anyone to live up to are the ones
they profess. By this I mean, if you put out seven records about how
shitty it is that women treat you bad, but are busy treating them bad
at the same time, you need to just shut the fuck up and work on living
up to your own moral expectations, then, just maybe, you can start
bitching about how others don't.
Wasteland Drifter
> On Apr 2, 5:53?pm, "- = k O e N s = -" <spel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > personally i find that a bit more refreshing than describing how many
> > guns someone has
> > and how they kill all their enemies and how much rock they grind...
> > but then i don't dig on
> > c&s or grime either...
>
> I'd rather hear about someones life thats semi-relevant to me, than
> someone's life that sounds like my own....when I was 15.
Are we in the fantasy world of TJ being a full time hustler because
you ride buses again?
> As for
> killing all their enemies, show me one rapper other than prodigy that
> is seriously on that? Most cats that rhyme about guns rhyme about
> carrying for protection. As for selling drugs, fuck, man, what's
> realer than work?
Rhyming about your *actual* job...
> Wasn't kanye's most propped song the one he wrote
> about working?
Jesus Walks was about work? That's some crazy job...
> I think its fucked up that rappers are considered to
> be deeper based on how deeply the critic chooses to look into their
> work.
Why do you care?
> It's like the minute you mention guns or drugs, it can't
> possibly be a metaphor, it HAS to be taken at face value.
Yeah duh! C'mon fellas, when they're talking about pushing weight,
they're really talking about pushing bits of paper around in their
office jobs... It's all a crazy metaphor... Damn call yourself Hip-Hop
fans???
Come on TJ you can do better than that.
> > in fact i find it weird that if you read bukowski you don't dig slug
>
> I havent read bukowski since the 90s, but I dont recall him ever
> coming across as trying to be the victim or self-pitying.
Just how much of Slug or MURS' work is this perspective based upon?
> > anyways murs aint on the same tip exactly but he and slug vibe well
> > together...
>
> > you know what, i mostly just heard him on felt records and only
> > checked for him after seeing him rip
> > it live but most of the felt stuff is just rhymes about girls, except
> > maybe this;
>
> Exactly, and it mostly comes off as self-pitying, as if he doenst
> deserve to get dogged out by girls when he rhymes about doing shit
> jsut as shitty to women.
Have you actually heard the Felt albums or are there special self-pity
versions of the 2 CD's I don't know about?
> These dudes who whine about how bad they get
> treated by women, and yet do shit I'd never do to a girl in a million
> years. You dug your grave, now lie in it and stop fronting like you
> didnt deserve it. It's liek the token song on every devin record
> where he fucks around on his woman and then she leaves him, except
> without the humor and "NOW! WITH 100% MORE SELF-PITY!" like one of
> those stickers on the box of cereal ad nauseum.
"NOW 100% GUARANTEED TO BE PLAYED AT THE WRONG SPEED AND FULL OF
STUDIO GANGSTERISM!"
See we can all do over generalisations, doesn't make any of the tripe
you're coming out with valid.
> > "The problem with hip-hop... shit nothing at all
> > It's an artform that ranges and it changes it evolves
> > It's not always for the better, but be patient with it yall
> > For our time will come and the wicked will fall
> > The problem with this song, is it's not long enough to say
> > How fucked up it is that we living this way
> > Nothing is alright, but everything is okay
> > So we plan for tomorrow but we live for today..." --- murs
>
> Seriously, fuck this dude. If hiphop is gonna get better when this
> dude is on top, please kill me when that happens. I dont ever want
> shit to improve by this "27 syllables a line but only 2 rhyme because
> I'm too busy whining about the shittiness of the women who're willing
> to go for my herb ass" clown being on top.
Where does he say in that quote that he's personally going to be on
top?
Let me guess... 'For *our* time will come and the wicked will fall'
now given the context he's not just talking about himself is he?
Firstly, it's directed at the audience including them in with himself.
At a guess the 'wicked' will be studio gangsters and the money men.
Now if the artists you listen to are as 'real' as you think they are
then you're particular choice of Hip-Hop is included in with the 'our
time will come' sentiment so why get all uppity and defensive about
it?
Let me guess it's another attack on the South... Yadda yadda yadda...
You're just as bad as the fans you are desperately trying to attack.
It's like 5 year olds in the sand pit...
"My Hip-Hop's realer! Yours sucks"
"No! Mine is! Your's sucks more!"
> Seriously, the late 80s
> and early 90s fucking killed nowadays, if only because back when it
> wasnt ok for suburban white dudes to rap, you'd get one crappy emo/
> indie rock band for every four or five of these herbs that did drama
> in highschool. Now they all have solo rap careers and put out records
> on the same crappy indie rock labels.
And there we have TJ's narrow perspective of Hip-Hop again...
It had nothing to do with the fact the best artists in that period
were trying to out do each other by making better albums rather than
trying to sound identical to the last album that went platinum, where
diversity of the sub-genres was more accepted by the audience as a
whole rather than feeling they had to compartmentalize themselves and
only listen to artists who talk about this and hate those who talk
about that...
No it's because there weren't white guys rapping about their lives...
TJ Xenos
wrote:
> On Apr 3, 11:41 am, "TJ Xenos" <talvi...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > On Apr 2, 5:53?pm, "- = k O e N s = -" <spel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > personally i find that a bit more refreshing than describing how many
> > > guns someone has
> > > and how they kill all their enemies and how much rock they grind...
> > > but then i don't dig on
> > > c&s or grime either...
>
> > I'd rather hear about someones life thats semi-relevant to me, than
> > someone's life that sounds like my own....when I was 15.
>
> Are we in the fantasy world of TJ being a full time hustler because
> you ride buses again?
Ummm. I have friends who do their thing, so hearing about selling
drugs to start a business or build a studio whatever is more relevant
than rhyming about how the girl you like doesnt give a fuck you dont
exist or treats you like shit. I got over that in high school.
>
> > As for
> > killing all their enemies, show me one rapper other than prodigy that
> > is seriously on that? Most cats that rhyme about guns rhyme about
> > carrying for protection. As for selling drugs, fuck, man, what's
> > realer than work?
>
> Rhyming about your *actual* job...
What's a job? The way you earn your living, no?
>
> > Wasn't kanye's most propped song the one he wrote
> > about working?
>
> Jesus Walks was about work? That's some crazy job...
Spaceship got way more props around here for its content than Jesus
Walks
> > I think its fucked up that rappers are considered to
> > be deeper based on how deeply the critic chooses to look into their
> > work.
>
> Why do you care?
Because if there's an "er" after an adjective it implies competition,
and someone is losing out and being disrespected because of the
ignorance of the judge.
> > It's like the minute you mention guns or drugs, it can't
> > possibly be a metaphor, it HAS to be taken at face value.
>
> Yeah duh! C'mon fellas, when they're talking about pushing weight,
> they're really talking about pushing bits of paper around in their
> office jobs... It's all a crazy metaphor... Damn call yourself Hip-Hop
> fans???
So you'd consider selling cd's to not be a real job? Selling Drugs =
Selling CDs = Selling Cars = Selling Rims = Selling Grills.
> Come on TJ you can do better than that.
Obviously its not a real job if you don't wear a tie and work in an
office pushing paper. Thank you for justifying my perceptions of
class warfare and the need for social revolution.
> > > in fact i find it weird that if you read bukowski you don't dig slug
>
> > I havent read bukowski since the 90s, but I dont recall him ever
> > coming across as trying to be the victim or self-pitying.
>
> Just how much of Slug or MURS' work is this perspective based upon?
>
> > > anyways murs aint on the same tip exactly but he and slug vibe well
> > > together...
>
> > > you know what, i mostly just heard him on felt records and only
> > > checked for him after seeing him rip
> > > it live but most of the felt stuff is just rhymes about girls, except
> > > maybe this;
>
> > Exactly, and it mostly comes off as self-pitying, as if he doenst
> > deserve to get dogged out by girls when he rhymes about doing shit
> > jsut as shitty to women.
>
> Have you actually heard the Felt albums or are there special self-pity
> versions of the 2 CD's I don't know about?
I havent listened to either of those dudes since the 90s or so. I
believe thats mentioned somewhere in this thread. You were probably
too busy talking around the water cooler to do that.
> > These dudes who whine about how bad they get
> > treated by women, and yet do shit I'd never do to a girl in a million
> > years. You dug your grave, now lie in it and stop fronting like you
> > didnt deserve it. It's liek the token song on every devin record
> > where he fucks around on his woman and then she leaves him, except
> > without the humor and "NOW! WITH 100% MORE SELF-PITY!" like one of
> > those stickers on the box of cereal ad nauseum.
>
> "NOW 100% GUARANTEED TO BE PLAYED AT THE WRONG SPEED AND FULL OF
> STUDIO GANGSTERISM!"
The fucked up thing is most shit I listen to ISN'T ABOUT GUNS.
> > > "The problem with hip-hop... shit nothing at all
> > > It's an artform that ranges and it changes it evolves
> > > It's not always for the better, but be patient with it yall
> > > For our time will come and the wicked will fall
> > > The problem with this song, is it's not long enough to say
> > > How fucked up it is that we living this way
> > > Nothing is alright, but everything is okay
> > > So we plan for tomorrow but we live for today..." --- murs
>
> > Seriously, fuck this dude. If hiphop is gonna get better when this
> > dude is on top, please kill me when that happens. I dont ever want
> > shit to improve by this "27 syllables a line but only 2 rhyme because
> > I'm too busy whining about the shittiness of the women who're willing
> > to go for my herb ass" clown being on top.
>
> Where does he say in that quote that he's personally going to be on
> top?
>
> Let me guess... 'For *our* time will come and the wicked will fall'
> now given the context he's not just talking about himself is he?
> Firstly, it's directed at the audience including them in with himself.
> At a guess the 'wicked' will be studio gangsters and the money men.
> Now if the artists you listen to are as 'real' as you think they are
> then you're particular choice of Hip-Hop is included in with the 'our
> time will come' sentiment so why get all uppity and defensive about
> it?
All I said was I dont like dudes rapping and I hope he's never on top
and for him achieving the top to be an improvement things would have
to be exremely shitty beforehand. I then elaborated as to why I think
his style sucks and hope he's never the big thing. Fuck man, I dont
want *ANYONE* to be on top, I want everyone to do their thing and
attract their own audience and play nice, and not talk shit they can't
back up. If you wanna talk shit, come with statistics. That is why
"im a doper emcee than you" will never be a valid argument and "more
people buy my records" will be. I dont think record sales necessarily
have anything to do with "dopeness" as that is in the eye of the
beholder, but they are definitely an actual measuring stick, and not
some abstract concept that can be redefined to meet the speakers needs
at that moment.
> Let me guess it's another attack on the South... Yadda yadda yadda...
Its the same tired untrue bullshit El-P was kicking in 97, and hiphop
was fine then.
> You're just as bad as the fans you are desperately trying to attack.
>
> It's like 5 year olds in the sand pit...
>
> "My Hip-Hop's realer! Yours sucks"
> "No! Mine is! Your's sucks more!"
I dont take issues until someone else says something first. Until you
start going "im real this other shit isnt" I don't care what the fuck
you're doing. This is why I liked KRS until 98 or so...
> > Seriously, the late 80s
> > and early 90s fucking killed nowadays, if only because back when it
> > wasnt ok for suburban white dudes to rap, you'd get one crappy emo/
> > indie rock band for every four or five of these herbs that did drama
> > in highschool. Now they all have solo rap careers and put out records
> > on the same crappy indie rock labels.
>
> And there we have TJ's narrow perspective of Hip-Hop again...
>
> It had nothing to do with the fact the best artists in that period
> were trying to out do each other by making better albums rather than
What makes a better album? Is that not in the eye of the beholder?
> trying to sound identical to the last album that went platinum, where
So the last album that the most people felt was better than the rest,
they're trying to make a record like that but better, no?
> diversity of the sub-genres was more accepted by the audience as a
> whole rather than feeling they had to compartmentalize themselves and
> only listen to artists who talk about this and hate those who talk
> about that...
There was less rappers so you had to take what you can get. Just as
simply one could say music was better before hiphop existed because
there was less subgenres of music and people could listen to a wider
variety without feeling they had to compartamentalize themselves and
only listen to hip hop and hate heavy metal. Please explain how this
last sentence is at all relevent to my favorite artists being
Devin
Z Ro
Mac Dre
Killer Mike
The Clipse (here's some drugs finally)
> No it's because there weren't white guys rapping about their lives...
White guys rapping about how much of a struggle it is being middle
class and single. I hate fucking emo rock, why the fuck am I gonna
listen to emo rap? I think hardcore was better in the early 80s
before there even was emo, and all these dudes just wrote bad poetry
and sulked in their rooms, so obviously I'm gonna feel the same way
about hiphop before they invaded it.
Wasteland Drifter
Fuck Google Groups...
I've replied to this one, if it doesn't turn up I'll respond again.
mattmatical
>I'd rather hear about someones life thats semi-relevant to me, than
>someone's life that sounds like my own....when I was 15.
Co-sign. Thankfully, no rapper has yet emerged to
rap about a life similar to my own. Now that'd be
some shit to hate on.
>As for
>killing all their enemies, show me one rapper other than prodigy that
>is seriously on that?
Prodigy is serious about stuff like that? How do you
conclude that?
>As for selling drugs, fuck, man, what's
>realer than work? Wasn't kanye's most propped song the one he wrote
>about working?
It seems like we've been there before. I was under the
impression that the drug game is nowhere near the
intensity of previous decades, which gives us a
generation of young rappers merely rapping about
dealing drugs without having the real-life background
story to have really been there and done that.
Even assuming that a rapper DID sell hard drugs,
I'll always consider someone rapping about his 9 to 5
to be realer because there's just too much factoring
into crack tales: the fact that it's a topic that sells
records, the fact that the topic has been beaten to
death by 100s of previous rappers.
If rapper A talks about working at McDonald's, I'm
just that much more inclined to believe him than
rapper B who talks about hustling drugs. Honestly,
can you blame me?
>It's like the minute you mention guns or drugs, it can't
>possibly be a metaphor, it HAS to be taken at face value.
Metaphor is probably the wrong word. That would mean
guns or drugs would stand in for something else. Show
me a song where that's the case, other than some clear
metaphor/simile a la Ice-T's "Lethal Weapon."
There's this Mac Mall song called "Serving Game" that for
the longest had me guessing if he was using 'game' and
the fact that he serves it to fiends as an analogy for the
rap game, or if 'game' was just another Bay slang term
for dope. That to me is an example of a (potentially) meta-
phorical hustling song.
What you probably mean is that guns or drugs can be
mere props in an insightful (true or false) story that can
have depth, where in the end it doesn't matter what the
rapper does (mop floors or sell drugs) because he tells
an interesting tale. I'd agree with that.
TJ Xenos
> "TJ Xenos" <talvi...@aol.com> wrote:
> >I'd rather hear about someones life thats semi-relevant to me, than
> >someone's life that sounds like my own....when I was 15.
>
> Co-sign. Thankfully, no rapper has yet emerged to
> rap about a life similar to my own. Now that'd be
> some shit to hate on.
Shit thats over and been with. Do you listen to bow wow and little
romeo rhyme about being little kids? I dont wanna hear 30 year old
men sound like teenage boys with hurt feelings either.
> >As for
> >killing all their enemies, show me one rapper other than prodigy that
> >is seriously on that?
>
> Prodigy is serious about stuff like that? How do you
> conclude that?
I just meant one rapper that rhymes that heavily about actually
murdering people.
> >As for selling drugs, fuck, man, what's
> >realer than work? Wasn't kanye's most propped song the one he wrote
> >about working?
>
> It seems like we've been there before. I was under the
> impression that the drug game is nowhere near the
> intensity of previous decades, which gives us a
> generation of young rappers merely rapping about
> dealing drugs without having the real-life background
> story to have really been there and done that.
The game isnt intense insofar as violence and shit, but there's TONS
of people out there taking and buying drugs, and by extension theres a
lotta motherfuckers out there slanging drugs. Heroin is bigger than
its ever been, and is heavily a lower class drug. Coke is still all
over the place. I know dudes who work labor and their foreman sells
them shit, or contractors who get shit from their laborers. And not
like a couple, like all of them. Shit is just more discreet now
because cats have cellphones and shit, so they dont need to be out on
the block fighting over whose corner it is, unless they're in the hood
near the tourist area. There may be some exagerration going on as far
as weight, and possibly even cats that just sold weed or pills or some
shit rhyming about coke or heroin, but I mean, people you'd never
expect have sold drugs at times. I mean, I don't think I've ever met
someone that didnt sell atleast SOME of their prescription meds on the
side for a few bucks. You even got professional football players and
shit getting involved in trying to do some sidework... The point is
though, I'd never disrespect the way a man gets his money and feeds
himself and his peoples.
> Even assuming that a rapper DID sell hard drugs,
> I'll always consider someone rapping about his 9 to 5
> to be realer because there's just too much factoring
> into crack tales: the fact that it's a topic that sells
> records, the fact that the topic has been beaten to
> death by 100s of previous rappers.
What hasn't been beaten to death by a hundred rappers or a hundred
singers? By your same logic, wouldnt the easy money have factored
into them selling drugs to get by prior to getting put on?
> If rapper A talks about working at McDonald's, I'm
> just that much more inclined to believe him than
> rapper B who talks about hustling drugs. Honestly,
> can you blame me?
Word, there aint nothing glamorous about mcdonald's, unless you're
trying to reach that "I dont believe in drug rap" demographic.
>
> >It's like the minute you mention guns or drugs, it can't
> >possibly be a metaphor, it HAS to be taken at face value.
>
> Metaphor is probably the wrong word. That would mean
> guns or drugs would stand in for something else. Show
> me a song where that's the case, other than some clear
> metaphor/simile a la Ice-T's "Lethal Weapon."
If a rapper hustles and slangs thousands of cd's prior to getting a
real deal, and then goes onto rhyme about hustling and slanging dope,
its the same thing. "hustle" is not exclusively a drug game word.
The dude selling bootleg cd's is a hustler too.
> There's this Mac Mall song called "Serving Game" that for
> the longest had me guessing if he was using 'game' and
> the fact that he serves it to fiends as an analogy for the
> rap game, or if 'game' was just another Bay slang term
> for dope. That to me is an example of a (potentially) meta-
> phorical hustling song.
Game means like any sort of information. Not necessarily rap game,
or drug game, it could be the industry game, or whatever. This is
exactly what I'm talking about. You can use a word that means drugs
to refer to slanging cd's. The rap game/crack game metaphor is so
cliche to be understood. You can use them interchangably, check the
"Make It Work For Ya" video by Juelz with Jeezy and Wayne
> What you probably mean is that guns or drugs can be
> mere props in an insightful (true or false) story that can
> have depth, where in the end it doesn't matter what the
> rapper does (mop floors or sell drugs) because he tells
> an interesting tale. I'd agree with that.
I meant even in a brag rap. I mean, bragging is bragging, whether it
be "my chain is bigger" or "my record sold more" or "I'll fuck you up
if i see you" or "I sold so much drugs" or "i got so much money" or
"Im the dopest emcee", it's irrelevent. It's all just window dressing
to the fact that you're talking about how bad you are. If anything it
provides a little insight into what the rapper thinks is "cool" or
what is "cool" where they come from. Which to me is what this shit
was all about was getting on the mic and tallking about who you are
and where you come from.
Seb
> Do you listen to bow wow and little romeo rhyme about being little
> kids?
Can't say that I do...
--Seb, "Try to wet me, I multiply like gremlins"
- = k O e N s = -
> On Apr 2, 5:53?pm, "- = k O e N s = -" <spel...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'd rather hear about someones life thats semi-relevant to me, than
> someone's life that sounds like my own....when I was 15.
i don't think most of the rap i grew up on was at all relevant to me,
black dudes in brooklyn and queens and me a white kid in australia?
but it sounded dope and they told good stories...
As for
> killing all their enemies, show me one rapper other than prodigy that
> is seriously on that? Most cats that rhyme about guns rhyme about
> carrying for protection.
i'm saying it's refreshing to hear something different, i still listen
to clipse
As for selling drugs, fuck, man, what's
> realer than work? Wasn't kanye's most propped song the one he wrote
> about working?
i grind, i hustle, i just don't think it's the original or interesting
topic as everyone
has done it to death, but i kinda like the way jay tells it
I think its fucked up that rappers are considered to
> be deeper based on how deeply the critic chooses to look into their
> work.
"how the critic chooses to look at their work" says it in a nutshell,
i guess you only see or hear what you want. i'm not saying anyone is
particularly deep,
i don't think getting drunk and picking up girls are particularly deep
subjects but you
cant front and say that they dont deal with slightly more complex
emotions than "you
touched my stash/girl/gun - i'll kill you"
It's like the minute you mention guns or drugs, it can't
> possibly be a metaphor, it HAS to be taken at face value.
i enjoy a good metaphor as much as the next and sometimes it's still
used
quite well these days but i think the majority of new school cats who
rhyme
about drugs and guns are trying to be taken seriously for credibility
and show
the experiences they came from...
> > in fact i find it weird that if you read bukowski you don't dig slug
>
> I havent read bukowski since the 90s, but I dont recall him ever
> coming across as trying to be the victim or self-pitying.
generally not no but where exactly are you saying slug and murs are?
> > anyways murs aint on the same tip exactly but he and slug vibe well
> > together...
>
> > you know what, i mostly just heard him on felt records and only
> > checked for him after seeing him rip
> > it live but most of the felt stuff is just rhymes about girls, except
> > maybe this;
>
> Exactly, and it mostly comes off as self-pitying, as if he doenst
> deserve to get dogged out by girls when he rhymes about doing shit
> jsut as shitty to women. These dudes who whine about how bad they get
> treated by women, and yet do shit I'd never do to a girl in a million
> years. You dug your grave, now lie in it and stop fronting like you
> didnt deserve it.
artists like pain. an art school chick said she broke up with me cos i
didn't
inspire her. then she said the break up was really good cos she made
lots of art,
go figure...
> > "The problem with hip-hop... shit nothing at all
> > It's an artform that ranges and it changes it evolves
> > It's not always for the better, but be patient with it yall
> > For our time will come and the wicked will fall
> > The problem with this song, is it's not long enough to say
> > How fucked up it is that we living this way
> > Nothing is alright, but everything is okay
> > So we plan for tomorrow but we live for today..." --- murs
>
> Seriously, fuck this dude. If hiphop is gonna get better when this
> dude is on top, please kill me when that happens. I dont ever want
> shit to improve by this "27 syllables a line but only 2 rhyme because
> I'm too busy whining about the shittiness of the women who're willing
> to go for my herb ass" clown being on top. Seriously, the late 80s
> and early 90s fucking killed nowadays, if only because back when it
> wasnt ok for suburban white dudes to rap, you'd get one crappy emo/
> indie rock band for every four or five of these herbs that did drama
> in highschool. Now they all have solo rap careers and put out records
> on the same crappy indie rock labels.
you realise murs is black right?
- = k O e N s = -
- = k O e N s = -
Which to me is what this shit
> was all about was getting on the mic and tallking about who you are
> and where you come from.
there ya go... nuff said... different strokes different folks... you
don't like it/don't relate
don't buy it, turn it off, i happen to like, jay-z, clipse AND slug
and murs...
they all rap in different ways about different things, different
styles, different flows,
some i can relate to some i can't but they do it well, obviously with
different levels
of commercial success...
oh, and i don't like aesop rock
mattmatical
>Do you listen to bow wow and little
>romeo rhyme about being little kids? I dont wanna hear 30 year old
>men sound like teenage boys with hurt feelings either.
It happens. I don't look for congruency with my
own age or my own reality. But I am occasionally
tempted to look for congruency with the rapper's
own reality.
>> >As for selling drugs, fuck, man, what's
>> >realer than work? asn't kanye's most propped song the one he wrote
Okay, I'm probably too much concentrating on crack here,
which from what I understand people like Clipse and Jeezy
are rhyming about. I don't mean to blast every single rapper
who sells drugs, I'm just hesitant to take their word for it
when it comes to getting involved in the production of
drugs (which brought us the various 'cooking' analogies)
and the sale of large amounts. Exaggeration and dramati-
zation (which are okay with me in a rap context) for me
simply get the way. I take someone rapping about a more
pedestrian topic that you can't glamourize as easily more
seriously.
>> Even assuming that a rapper DID sell hard drugs,
>> I'll always consider someone rapping about his 9 to 5
>> to be realer because there's just too much factoring
>> into crack tales: the fact that it's a topic that sells
>> records, the fact that the topic has been beaten to
>> death by 100s of previous rappers.
>
>What hasn't been beaten to death by a hundred rappers or a hundred
>singers? By your same logic, wouldnt the easy money have factored
>into them selling drugs to get by prior to getting put on?
Point taken. But selling drugs can get you jail time,
rapping about it won't. Then again, selling drugs is
in the short term probably more profitable than
making rap music. How would a reasonable person
act? What's reasonable under the given circum-
stances? Probably not my call.
>> If rapper A talks about working at McDonald's, I'm
>> just that much more inclined to believe him than
>> rapper B who talks about hustling drugs. Honestly,
>> can you blame me?
>
>Word, there aint nothing glamorous about mcdonald's, unless you're
>trying to reach that "I dont believe in drug rap" demographic.
I thought today's measuring stick was 'reality'? In
the end I'm probably in the "I don't believe in drug
rap" demographic, but I'll listen to it if it is able to
give me something of artistic value.
>> >It's like the minute you mention guns or drugs, it can't
>> >possibly be a metaphor, it HAS to be taken at face value.
>>
>> Metaphor is probably the wrong word. That would mean
>> guns or drugs would stand in for something else. Show
>> me a song where that's the case, other than some clear
>> metaphor/simile a la Ice-T's "Lethal Weapon."
>
>If a rapper hustles and slangs thousands of cd's prior to getting a
>real deal, and then goes onto rhyme about hustling and slanging dope,
>its the same thing. "hustle" is not exclusively a drug game word.
>The dude selling bootleg cd's is a hustler too.
If anything, 'hustle' rap has taught me that hustle is
not exclusively a drug game word. But just because
you rhyme about +some+ type of hustling activity
doesn't mean you're legitimized to talk about
selling drugs song after song and then turn
around and claim it's only a 'metaphor'. (Not that
I remember a rapper arguing like that.)
>> There's this Mac Mall song called "Serving Game" that for
>> the longest had me guessing if he was using 'game' and
>> the fact that he serves it to fiends as an analogy for the
>> rap game, or if 'game' was just another Bay slang term
>> for dope. That to me is an example of a (potentially) meta-
>> phorical hustling song.
>
>Game means like any sort of information. Not necessarily rap game,
>or drug game, it could be the industry game, or whatever. This is
>exactly what I'm talking about. You can use a word that means drugs
>to refer to slanging cd's. The rap game/crack game metaphor is so
>cliche to be understood. You can use them interchangably
The rap/crack game is probably an appropriate analogy.
You can even extend it, as you say. At some point I did
find out that Mall rhymes about 'any sort of information'.
But you do seem to have a very liberal interpretation of
rap about selling drugs where any ki, ounce, triple beam,
transaction could also stand for something else in a
different hustle. That's just too much generalization for
me. Only few songs work with this double entendre.
TJ Xenos
> >singers? By your same logic, wouldnt the easy money have factored
> >into them selling drugs to get by prior to getting put on?
>
> Point taken. But selling drugs can get you jail time,
> rapping about it won't. Then again, selling drugs is
> in the short term probably more profitable than
> making rap music. How would a reasonable person
> act? What's reasonable under the given circum-
> stances? Probably not my call.
Gotta go to work, but this is the most pertinent point here. No one
is talking about selling drugs their whole life. It's early to mid
20s cats rhyming about selling drugs before they got on. As for the
cooking, I know a lot of people who've cooked coke, mostly to smoke it
themselves, but its only a hop skip and a jump from cooking your own
to your dealer supplying you because you do so well on the come back.
Cooking is like a promotion from slanging. It's like making it to
middle management. I admit to skepticism when cats are talking about
100+ ki's, but I've known street cats that would get dozens of ki's
and middle man them out to street dudes. The drug game is probably
the biggest industry in the world, biggger than energy or banking....
Wasteland Drifter
>
> > Are we in the fantasy world of TJ being a full time hustler because
> > you ride buses again?
>
> Ummm. I have friends who do their thing, so hearing about selling
> drugs to start a business or build a studio whatever is more relevant
> than rhyming about how the girl you like doesnt give a fuck you dont
> exist or treats you like shit. I got over that in high school.
If you never have relationship problems then well done and I wish your
luck continues, maybe you should try giving counselling to people in
need of relationship advice or something, you'd make a killing...
In most other people's lives, they have relationship issues, even
those big tough gangsta's who front like they don't give a shit...
I don't know why an artist can't touch on that part of human existence
without you claiming they are acting like they are in High School...
> > > As for
> > > killing all their enemies, show me one rapper other than prodigy that
> > > is seriously on that? ?Most cats that rhyme about guns rhyme about
> > > carrying for protection. ?As for selling drugs, fuck, man, what's
> > > realer than work?
>
> > Rhyming about your *actual* job...
>
> What's a job? The way you earn your living, no?
What's that got to do with it being their actual job or not?
I'm sorry but I don't think everyone who's spit a rhyme about selling
drugs has actually sold drugs in the manner they are describing, if at
all.
> > > Wasn't kanye's most propped song the one he wrote
> > > about working?
>
> > Jesus Walks was about work? That's some crazy job...
>
> Spaceship got way more props around here for its content than Jesus
> Walks
I didn't know we were talking about here alone...
> > > I think its fucked up that rappers are considered to
> > > be deeper based on how deeply the critic chooses to look into their
> > > work.
>
> > Why do you care?
>
> Because if there's an "er" after an adjective it implies competition,
> and someone is losing out and being disrespected because of the
> ignorance of the judge.
Again why do you care?
It's like you yourself are being judged by the 'critics' rather than
the artist or their work.
> > > It's like the minute you mention guns or drugs, it can't
> > > possibly be a metaphor, it HAS to be taken at face value.
>
> > Yeah duh! C'mon fellas, when they're talking about pushing weight,
> > they're really talking about pushing bits of paper around in their
> > office jobs... It's all a crazy metaphor... Damn call yourself Hip-Hop
> > fans???
>
> So you'd consider selling cd's to not be a real job?
Where did I say that?
> Selling Drugs =
> Selling CDs = Selling Cars = Selling Rims = Selling Grills.
And that's every single reference to selling drugs ever put on wax by
a Hip-Hop artist is it?
I suppose the anti-crack tracks from years back were *all* really
about Hip-Hop becoming a commercial commodity and the effects of
crack on the community were really about the effects of
commercialisation on the culture of Hip-Hop...
You can't use "I'm Your Pusher" as the blueprint for every single drug
related rap in history...
> > Come on TJ you can do better than that.
>
> Obviously its not a real job if you don't wear a tie and work in an
> office pushing paper. Thank you for justifying my perceptions of
> class warfare and the need for social revolution.
Well done for seeing something that wasn't there and getting defensive
about it again.
It was a lame way to 'defend' something, a vast generalisation and I
would have expected a better reply from you - despite calling you a
retard or similar on a regular I don't actually think you're that
dumb.
>
> > Have you actually heard the Felt albums or are there special self-pity
> > versions of the 2 CD's I don't know about?
>
> I havent listened to either of those dudes since the 90s or so. I
> believe thats mentioned somewhere in this thread. You were probably
> too busy talking around the water cooler to do that.
So you're attacking artists for saying something in rhymes you've not
even heard...
Being intensely bitter about them, claiming they are full of self pity
or try to be on a moral high ground when you haven't listened to them
for about a decade.
Do you not see the problem in that?
> > > These dudes who whine about how bad they get
> > > treated by women, and yet do shit I'd never do to a girl in a million
> > > years. ?You dug your grave, now lie in it and stop fronting like you
> > > didnt deserve it. ?It's liek the token song on every devin record
> > > where he fucks around on his woman and then she leaves him, except
> > > without the humor and "NOW! WITH 100% MORE SELF-PITY!" like one of
> > > those stickers on the box of cereal ad nauseum.
>
> > "NOW 100% GUARANTEED TO BE PLAYED AT THE WRONG SPEED AND FULL OF
> > STUDIO GANGSTERISM!"
>
> The fucked up thing is most shit I listen to ISN'T ABOUT GUNS.
Well done, now where did I say it was?
> > > > "The problem with hip-hop... shit nothing at all
> > > > It's an artform that ranges and it changes it evolves
> > > > It's not always for the better, but be patient with it yall
> > > > For our time will come and the wicked will fall
> > > > The problem with this song, is it's not long enough to say
> > > > How fucked up it is that we living this way
> > > > Nothing is alright, but everything is okay
> > > > So we plan for tomorrow but we live for today..." --- murs
>
> > > Seriously, fuck this dude. ?If ?hiphop is gonna get better when this
> > > dude is on top, please kill me when that happens. ?I dont ever want
> > > shit to improve by this "27 syllables a line but only 2 rhyme because
> > > I'm too busy whining about the shittiness of the women who're willing
> > > to go for my herb ass" clown being on top.
>
> > Where does he say in that quote that he's personally going to be on
> > top?
>
> > Let me guess... 'For *our* time will come and the wicked will fall'
> > now given the context he's not just talking about himself is he?
> > Firstly, it's directed at the audience including them in with himself.
> > At a guess the 'wicked' will be studio gangsters and the money men.
> > Now if the artists you listen to are as 'real' as you think they are
> > then you're particular choice of Hip-Hop is included in with the 'our
> > time will come' sentiment so why get all uppity and defensive about
> > it?
>
> All I said was I dont like dudes rapping and I hope he's never on top
> and for him achieving the top to be an improvement things would have
> to be exremely shitty beforehand.
So that's in no way influenced by a misinterpretation of the lyrics
provided? Why else would you go on about being on top?
> I then elaborated as to why I think
> his style sucks and hope he's never the big thing. Fuck man, I dont
> want *ANYONE* to be on top, I want everyone to do their thing and
> attract their own audience and play nice, and not talk shit they can't
> back up. If you wanna talk shit, come with statistics.
Why?
> That is why
> "im a doper emcee than you" will never be a valid argument and "more
> people buy my records" will be.
Who's sold more Kanye or Kool G Rap? Who is generally considered the
better MC?
See below...
> I dont think record sales necessarily
> have anything to do with "dopeness" as that is in the eye of the
> beholder, but they are definitely an actual measuring stick, and not
> some abstract concept that can be redefined to meet the speakers needs
> at that moment.
It is an abstract concept but that doesn't make it an invalid one.
Record sales can be explained by many things one of which is actual
talent, it's also only one field in which 'competition' can be judged.
If sales and money are primary objectives of the artist or person
making the comparison then it will be the sole or primary basis in
which artists are judged that doesn't make them the only valid
measuring stick.
I really couldn't give a fuck about sales or whether an artist has
gone platinum, it means shit to me and artists who resort to such talk
at any opportunity bore me to tears...
If an MC says he's the best MC, and he's clearly not, so fucking what?
I still think that it's a better expression of competition within a
field of art than sales figures, which as previously said are
determined by more than purely the artists art.
Regardless, MURS doesn't even fucking say he's the dopest in the quote
given!
> > Let me guess it's another attack on the South... Yadda yadda yadda...
>
> Its the same tired untrue bullshit El-P was kicking in 97, and hiphop
> was fine then.
"The problem with hip-hop... shit nothing at all"
Nas is criticised for calling his album Hip-Hop Is Dead and now you're
criticising an MC for saying there's nothing wrong... Which is it?
> > You're just as bad as the fans you are desperately trying to attack.
>
> > It's like 5 year olds in the sand pit...
>
> > "My Hip-Hop's realer! Yours sucks"
> > "No! Mine is! Your's sucks more!"
>
> I dont take issues until someone else says something first. Until you
> start going "im real this other shit isnt" I don't care what the fuck
> you're doing. This is why I liked KRS until 98 or so...
Who gives a fuck if an artist says shit like that? Why do those words
hurt you so much that you have to stop liking an artist just because
they have an opinion or are just talking shit?
It's all just competition... Some will genuinely mean it... Who gives
a fuck?
The whole 'real' thing is played out and has been for a good while
now, it doesn't make me hate an artist if they say it. Those fans who
take it all too seriously and start hating for hating sake (or get
defensive for no reason) are the people who do my head in.
> > > Seriously, the late 80s
> > > and early 90s fucking killed nowadays, if only because back when it
> > > wasnt ok for suburban white dudes to rap, you'd get one crappy emo/
> > > indie rock band for every four or five of these herbs that did drama
> > > in highschool. ?Now they all have solo rap careers and put out records
> > > on the same crappy indie rock labels.
>
> > And there we have TJ's narrow perspective of Hip-Hop again...
>
> > It had nothing to do with the fact the best artists in that period
> > were trying to out do each other by making better albums rather than
>
> What makes a better album? Is that not in the eye of the beholder?
It's in the ear of the listener but look at the amount of almost
uniformly accepted classic albums then compared to the last decade.
Coincidence?
> > trying to sound identical to the last album that went platinum, where
>
> So the last album that the most people felt was better than the rest,
> they're trying to make a record like that but better, no?
It didn't have to be produced by the same producer, with the same
rhyme pattern, delivery, guest vocalists and lyrical content no.
> > diversity of the sub-genres was more accepted by the audience as a
> > whole rather than feeling they had to compartmentalize themselves and
> > only listen to artists who talk about this and hate those who talk
> > about that...
>
> There was less rappers so you had to take what you can get.
That's a poor excuse for accepting exclusivity in one style and
uniformly dissing people outside of that...
> Just as
> simply one could say music was better before hiphop existed because
> there was less subgenres of music and people could listen to a wider
> variety without feeling they had to compartamentalize themselves and
> only listen to hip hop and hate heavy metal.
They're idiots too.
> Please explain how this
> last sentence is at all relevent to my favorite artists being
>
> Devin
> Z Ro
> Mac Dre
> Killer Mike
> The Clipse (here's some drugs finally)
Is that list supposed to show your diverse taste?
> > No it's because there weren't white guys rapping about their lives...
>
> White guys rapping about how much of a struggle it is being middle
> class and single. I hate fucking emo rock, why the fuck am I gonna
> listen to emo rap?
Who said you have to?
> I think hardcore was better in the early 80s
> before there even was emo, and all these dudes just wrote bad poetry
> and sulked in their rooms, so obviously I'm gonna feel the same way
> about hiphop before they invaded it.
It's sad if you think that music should only be limited to one group
of people and express only their experiences and ideas.
beezer
Wasteland Drifter wrote:
> On Apr 3, 6:23 pm, "TJ Xenos" <talvi...@aol.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Are we in the fantasy world of TJ being a full time hustler because
> > > you ride buses again?
> >
> > Ummm. I have friends who do their thing, so hearing about selling
> > drugs to start a business or build a studio whatever is more relevant
> > than rhyming about how the girl you like doesnt give a fuck you dont
> > exist or treats you like shit. I got over that in high school.
>
> If you never have relationship problems then well done and I wish your
> luck continues, maybe you should try giving counselling to people in
> need of relationship advice or something, you'd make a killing...
>
> In most other people's lives, they have relationship issues, even
> those big tough gangsta's who front like they don't give a shit...
>
> I don't know why an artist can't touch on that part of human existence
> without you claiming they are acting like they are in High School...
Jeebus man you get really Questy sometimes. No one is saying having
relationship issues is sissy or some shit rather that the way MURS
deals with that shit is infantile. TJ was responding to me saying if
you deal with relationship problems by being all "fuck that bitch"
then you come of retarded.
> > Spaceship got way more props around here for its content than Jesus
> > Walks
>
> I didn't know we were talking about here alone...
Spaceship would be the track that people picked up on most off the
first album in my oppinion too. It's the one that WORKS. Reviews,
rmhh, people in the real world, whatever.
> Well done for seeing something that wasn't there and getting defensive
> about it again.
Seriously, who's the more defensive on this thread?
> So you're attacking artists for saying something in rhymes you've not
> even heard...
Where is attacking? This was a "I'm not feeling this shit" post.
> Being intensely bitter about them, claiming they are full of self pity
> or try to be on a moral high ground when you haven't listened to them
> for about a decade.
>
> Do you not see the problem in that?
I'm not sure that Listened to equates to Heard in this case. I heard a
MURS cd at work the other week. It was lyrically a lot like the MURS
cd I heard a year or so before. Any moments of good rhyming seemed
ruined by his victim-y bitching moments for me.
> Well done, now where did I say it was?
You like this smartarsed, picking shit apart argueing way more than
you like talking music. Shit is unhealthy.
> > I dont take issues until someone else says something first. Until you
> > start going "im real this other shit isnt" I don't care what the fuck
> > you're doing. This is why I liked KRS until 98 or so...
>
> Who gives a fuck if an artist says shit like that? Why do those words
> hurt you so much that you have to stop liking an artist just because
> they have an opinion or are just talking shit?
>
> It's all just competition... Some will genuinely mean it... Who gives
> a fuck?
>
> The whole 'real' thing is played out and has been for a good while
> now, it doesn't make me hate an artist if they say it. Those fans who
> take it all too seriously and start hating for hating sake (or get
> defensive for no reason) are the people who do my head in.
How is it hating for hatings sake? If I don't like KRS going from
being a "lets do this, and lets do that, I do this and I do that" MC
to a "you do this wrong, the correct way is this" MC then I'm doing
your head in? I'm hating for hatings sake? It's music, a music where
content is a fair chunk of what you're listening to.
> > What makes a better album? Is that not in the eye of the beholder?
>
> It's in the ear of the listener but look at the amount of almost
> uniformly accepted classic albums then compared to the last decade.
> Coincidence?
"uniformly accepted" is the thing though. We may all agree on Strictly
Business or Illmatic being a classic (we don't) but thats got a lot to
do with Hiphop being a vastly narrower channel then. I think
Madvillain is classic on a par with any golden age album but Hiphop's
listeners are so many and varied now that you won't get that kind of
concent. I think that Clipse album is some classic shit, TJ thinks the
Carter 2 is some classic shit, Alex Rinse thinks teh Foreign Beggers
have got classic shit, Quest thinks Immortal Technique has got classic
shit. We can't all even be LISTENING to the same artists nowadays
because theres too many let alone be calling the same albums classic.
It's too big for that now so you can't compare.
> That's a poor excuse for accepting exclusivity in one style and
> uniformly dissing people outside of that...
Who is doing that? TJ? By saying he doesn't like Slug adn Murs? That's
ridiculous. He has a niche but even that is way more varied than what
you suggest above.
> > Please explain how this
> > last sentence is at all relevent to my favorite artists being
> >
> > Devin
> > Z Ro
> > Mac Dre
> > Killer Mike
> > The Clipse (here's some drugs finally)
>
> Is that list supposed to show your diverse taste?
You think all of them are the same? The MUSIC they make?
> It's sad if you think that music should only be limited to one group
> of people and express only their experiences and ideas.
Who is really gonna be saying that? I'll just say "MURS is
embarassing" and I reckon that's what TJ would say as well. You're
just up to your old sport-argueing tricks.
bse
TJ Xenos
> >> If rapper A talks about working at McDonald's, I'm
> >> just that much more inclined to believe him than
> >> rapper B who talks about hustling drugs. Honestly,
> >> can you blame me?
>
> >Word, there aint nothing glamorous about mcdonald's, unless you're
> >trying to reach that "I dont believe in drug rap" demographic.
>
> I thought today's measuring stick was 'reality'? In
> the end I'm probably in the "I don't believe in drug
> rap" demographic, but I'll listen to it if it is able to
> give me something of artistic value.
My point is that mcdonalds isnt attractive to the rapper or ostensibly
to potential listeners so he's probably gonna rhyme about something
else, whereas if a dude sells drugs and knows that sells, he's gonna
put it down the way he sees the game. There's been studio gangsters,
but as far as I know there hasn't been a dude who fronted he worked at
mcdonalds. On the flip theres been cats who its been revealed worked
at mcdonalds but never rapped about it, or really brought it up in the
open, whereas with selling drugs, I can't think of too many dudes
who've said they didn't that actually did.
> The rap/crack game is probably an appropriate analogy.
> You can even extend it, as you say. At some point I did
> find out that Mall rhymes about 'any sort of information'.
> But you do seem to have a very liberal interpretation of
> rap about selling drugs where any ki, ounce, triple beam,
> transaction could also stand for something else in a
> different hustle. That's just too much generalization for
> me. Only few songs work with this double entendre.
The point is the lesson is the same. You can take the moral of dudes
story about slanging drugs and apply it to slanging cds, or to selling
vacuums or selling cars. It's like you said about how the drugs can be
props to a story that has a lesson. Typically the lesson involves
handling business and generating revenue. It's like a hood MBA.
TJ Xenos
> which from what I understand people like Clipse and Jeezy
> are rhyming about. I don't mean to blast every single rapper
> who sells drugs, I'm just hesitant to take their word for it
> when it comes to getting involved in the production of
> drugs (which brought us the various 'cooking' analogies)
cooking crack isn't really drug _production_ , it's like the cocaine
equivalent of making hash lol. I almost feel like i should be x-
posting to some rec.drugs group at this point...
cyrb...@gmail.com
> On 2007-04-03, TJ Xenos <talvi...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > Do you listen to bow wow and little romeo rhyme about being little
> > kids?
>
> Can't say that I do...
>
> --Seb, "Try to wet me, I multiply like gremlins"
the fact that this thread even exists disturbs me. knock a dude for
doing what he intended for the game. hard in any walk of life. murs is
real. i respect him. quixotic kid
beezer
> the fact that this thread even exists disturbs me. knock a dude for
> doing what he intended for the game. hard in any walk of life. murs is
> real. i respect him. quixotic kid
"for doing what he intended"?
I started the thread by saying I find him embarassing. Literally. I
put the CD on at work and I'm embarassed by it.
bse
suntzu
> Really.
>
> I can't understand gorwn men listening to him.
>
> Self-absorbed kids? yes. Grown men? Grown men I respect the taste of?
>
> Damn.
>
> That is all.
>
> bse
>
the only thing i've heard him on is the 2nd felt album, which i liked a
lot (and thought murs was pretty good on).
anything specific that sparked this post?
suntzu
are we talking about slug or murs?
i think slug pretty openly admits his scumbag tendencies. murs i don't
really know, i haven't heard a whole lot by him.