White old school rapping spotted?

[mattmatical]

Came across this 1980 12" called "TSOB" ('The Sound
of Brooklyn', likely named after the imprint it was released
on) by Master Jay and Michael Dee.

Since I think I have an ear for spotting white (US) rappers,
I imagine I found a very early specimen in Michael Dee
(AKA Mikey D, no relation to the more famous Mikey D).
He's the first to go. Tell me if you hear it too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHaFM8ZAJuI


Matt...rip Whitney

[Luca]

Yup. Definitely Italian... wait... half-Italian half Boricua... yeah. no
doubt.

Wow, way to ride piggyback on that Sugarhill tune. ;)

[mattmatical]

Not sure if you're trolling me. Are you?

I actually meant so white that he wouldn't even be
Italian.

>Wow, way to ride piggyback on that Sugarhill tune. ;)

Hm... which one again? Sorry I don't understand
Twitterish. I need precise and extensive answers to my
questions.


Matt

[Luca]

On 02/14/2012 05:43 PM, mattmatical wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 14:27:28 +0100, Luca wrote:
>
>> On 02/12/2012 06:51 PM, mattmatical wrote:
>>> Came across this 1980 12" called "TSOB" ('The Sound
>>> of Brooklyn', likely named after the imprint it was released
>>> on) by Master Jay and Michael Dee.
>>>
>>> Since I think I have an ear for spotting white (US) rappers,
>>> I imagine I found a very early specimen in Michael Dee
>>> (AKA Mikey D, no relation to the more famous Mikey D).
>>> He's the first to go. Tell me if you hear it too:
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHaFM8ZAJuI
>>>
>>>
>>> Matt...rip Whitney
>>
>> Yup. Definitely Italian... wait... half-Italian half Boricua... yeah. no
>> doubt.
>
> Not sure if you're trolling me. Are you?

Nope, only exaggerating a bit. If I had to guess, and if I wasn't
slightly suspicious of color or ethnic codes, I would probably say
Italian American.

> I actually meant so white that he wouldn't even be
> Italian.
>
>
>> Wow, way to ride piggyback on that Sugarhill tune. ;)
>
> Hm... which one again? Sorry I don't understand
> Twitterish. I need precise and extensive answers to my
> questions.

I meant the rhymes. Totally modelled on Rapper's Delight. Caz should get
co-writing credits for this one, too. But the beat is better.

Luca

[mattmatical]

On Wed, 15 Feb 2012 00:14:42 +0100, Luca wrote:

>if I wasn't
>slightly suspicious of color or ethnic codes

Looking at the history of the genre, I'd say white (oops,
sorry for the 'coding') emcees at a rather early stage do
have some significance.

Some folks barely acknowledge the Hispanic presence in
old school rap.

We're not talking about Mel Brooks and Thomas Gott-
schalk here.


Matt

[Luca]

On 02/19/2012 09:45 AM, mattmatical wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Feb 2012 00:14:42 +0100, Luca wrote:
>
>> if I wasn't
>> slightly suspicious of color or ethnic codes
>
> Looking at the history of the genre, I'd say white (oops,
> sorry for the 'coding') emcees at a rather early stage do
> have some significance.

See, I don't see race, but I do see class, in terms of where and with
what means you get to carve out your life. So in my mind, hip-hop
started out in predominantly poor/working class places, where kids
celebrated in public function rooms and parks, instead of one's tennis
club or one's boat house upstate. And among poor people in America you
tend to find more black as well as immigrant folks with little education
or people whose degrees aren't valued (taxi driving engineers).
This whole "modern-day griot" thing, this retroactive interpretation as
continuing something in an African tradition sounds nice, and it may
well be a subconscious result of traditions from the other side of the
Atlantic, but it was scarcely the first thing on people's minds when
they wanted to show off the bone-shattering power of their bass bins,
brag about their finesse and skill at keeping a party moving, or boots
knocking. The African-ness of hip-hop is more of a reverse conclusion
from the mere fact that there are a whole bunch of black folks in the
projects. Or else Poor Righteous Teachers and X Clan wouldn't have had
to wait that long to make an appearance.

This discussion just reminded me of this scene from Do the Right Thing.
http://tdf165.wordpress.com/2010/09/24/cultural-stereotypes-do-the-right-thing/

> Some folks barely acknowledge the Hispanic presence in
> old school rap.

Amen.
And the greek! They invented everything. ;) JULIO204 and TAKI183 say hi.
(I know nobody gives two shits about graf.)

It just gets stupid if you consider there are black Hispanics, and white
Hispanics and brown ... etc. (In Latin American countries, those color
shadings matter a lot for a lot of people. And the Spanish language was
brought to America by what was seen as whites.) What about black or
Chinese Jews, Christian Arabs, Muslim Irishmen and those who trace back
1/32nth of themselves to a Native American tribe, and brag about it at
every college party?
There is just a point where it all gets pretty damn pointless, is all
I'm saying. If you're saying, hey, here's a white rapper nobody seems to
have noticed, who was before the Beastie Boys came out and took all the
credit for being the white rappers, fine. But then the next guy will try
to make Jewish kids something other than Anglo Christian white kids,
etc. It just don't stop. And since hip-hoppers have learnt the lesson,
and it will not be taken away from black people and turned into an
ostensibly white (=non-black) thing like rock-n-roll, I think we can relax.

Luca

[mattmatical]

On Sun, 19 Feb 2012 15:41:16 +0100, Luca wrote:

>On 02/19/2012 09:45 AM, mattmatical wrote:
>> On Wed, 15 Feb 2012 00:14:42 +0100, Luca wrote:
>>
>>> if I wasn't
>>> slightly suspicious of color or ethnic codes
>>
>> Looking at the history of the genre, I'd say white (oops,
>> sorry for the 'coding') emcees at a rather early stage do
>> have some significance.
>
>See, I don't see race, but I do see class, in terms of where and with
>what means you get to carve out your life. So in my mind, hip-hop
>started out in predominantly poor/working class places, where kids
>celebrated in public function rooms and parks, instead of one's tennis
>club or one's boat house upstate. And among poor people in America you
>tend to find more black as well as immigrant folks with little education
>or people whose degrees aren't valued (taxi driving engineers).

And yet it was them that came up with hip-hop, not poor
white communities.

>This whole "modern-day griot" thing, this retroactive interpretation as
>continuing something in an African tradition sounds nice, and it may
>well be a subconscious result of traditions from the other side of the
>Atlantic, but it was scarcely the first thing on people's minds when
>they wanted to show off the bone-shattering power of their bass bins,
>brag about their finesse and skill at keeping a party moving, or boots
>knocking. The African-ness of hip-hop is more of a reverse conclusion
>from the mere fact that there are a whole bunch of black folks in the
>projects. Or else Poor Righteous Teachers and X Clan wouldn't have had
>to wait that long to make an appearance.

Agreed on the overinterpretation of rap's 'African' roots
(although I guess if you really look at it, a lot of the evidence
presented makes sense).

Rap always came across as mainly 'American' to me. Then
again I only have vague clichéd impressions of 'America' as well
as of 'Africa'.

I guess you won't dispute that nevertheless rap is steeped deeply
in black music tradition, and that includes political concerns.

Brother D - How We Gonna Make The Black Nation Rise:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-HQR2-s1J4

>This discussion just reminded me of this scene from Do the Right Thing.
>http://tdf165.wordpress.com/2010/09/24/cultural-stereotypes-do-the-right-thing/

You must disagree with A LOT OF rap music I regularly
listen to.

>There is just a point where it all gets pretty damn pointless, is all
>I'm saying. If you're saying, hey, here's a white rapper nobody seems to
>have noticed, who was before the Beastie Boys came out and took all the
>credit for being the white rappers, fine.

I'm perfectly okay with the Beasties being regarded as
white rap pioneers. Personally I don't see that as a
claim to fame, and neither do the Beasties or (hopefully)
their fans.
All I'm saying there are possibly white Americans on this
early rap record from New York. A novelty item maybe,
but to my knowledge not yet registered by the all-knowing
cyberspace.

>And since hip-hoppers have learnt the lesson,
>and it will not be taken away from black people and turned into an
>ostensibly white (=non-black) thing like rock-n-roll, I think we can relax.

You're an optimist. I predict we'll see more and more WHITE people
in commercial/mainstream hip-hop. Being signed, played and listened
to because of their color of skin.

Iggy Azalea - Pu$$y (nsfw):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2GCga7YLCU


Matt