It's good to see promotion still controls everything...
Sco Dylan
dick.
oh and he can't rap.
--
Sco Dylan...
disoBAYish to the core...
Dani Sdao
> dick.
Jesus Walks.
d
locdogjr
"Sco Dylan" <hex...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:HQLWb.296663$na.451089@attbi_s04...
oh come on!
its better than SOOOO much other shit coming out,
he's not the greatest rapper who ever lived but he makes banging beats and
has dope topics and concepts.
IMO he's just a breath of fresh air.....
he'd NEVER have this buzz if it weren't for the internet and people
generally feeling him, this is NO major company created buzz.
-loc
jess
> dick.
who currently is more deserving of attention?
> oh and he can't rap.
he's not the best, but he ain't bad.
bozak
> dick.
agreed...
> oh and he can't rap.
i think i summed it up over a month ago when i said he makes
dre sound like rakim...
Sco Dylan
"jess" <jessic...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c0g94u$h2j$1...@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk...
>
> "Sco Dylan" <hex...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:HQLWb.296663$na.451089@attbi_s04...
> > cuz that Kanye West is NOT deserving of so much attention...get off his
> > dick.
>
> who currently is more deserving of attention?
ANYBODY.
Subliminal
>dick.
It's a real good album, and rap needed one.
Subliminal
jess
>
> "jess" <jessic...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:c0g94u$h2j$1...@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk...
> >
> > "Sco Dylan" <hex...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> > news:HQLWb.296663$na.451089@attbi_s04...
> > > cuz that Kanye West is NOT deserving of so much attention...get off
his
> > > dick.
> >
> > who currently is more deserving of attention?
>
> ANYBODY.
come on.
he's cool.
the way he says insecure is wicked.
A to the L
said:
>
>"Sco Dylan" <hex...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:HQLWb.296663$na.451089@attbi_s04...
>> cuz that Kanye West is NOT deserving of so much attention...get off his
>> dick.
>
>who currently is more deserving of attention?
Tony Toca
PEACH
A to the L
"I hope ya family got love for you soldier - cos one of them gon be your organ donor"
"Fuck the cup, pour it in my hand for a dime."
"I start what I finish, and I end what I start - look at my jeans they got starch."
quest19...@webtv.net
<<cuz that Kanye West is NOT deserving of so much attention...get off
his dick.>>
Co-signing of the highest order.
<<oh and he can't rap.>>
Typical. He's a producer---from Timbaland to Jay Dee he falls right in
line.
quest19...@webtv.net
<<who currently is more deserving of attention?>>
For starters:
Immortal Technique
virtually ALL artists from Rhymesayers Ent.
Jean Grae(I'd wager she'd smoke him)
J-Live
People Under The Stairs
<<he's not the best, but he ain't bad.>>
If he's not the best, who is? And when did Hip Hop start settling for
wack so-called MCs? This sounds like a generational thing because he
would've gotten laugh at everywhere he went just a decade ago---well, a
15 years ago. The art of MCing has regressed.
Pizon
>would've gotten laugh at everywhere he went just a decade ago---well, a
>15 years ago.
Yeah, but so would 95% of the MCs that are out today. And if you try playing
an "old school" hip hop record at a club today, the dance floor will probably
empty. Times change. Get over it, man.
Get at me,
Pizon
http://www.lascalaentertainment.com
--
...P.I. till I die and I just laugh at you cats...
Sir
There's better chances of him masturbating to the Blueprint album.
Sir...
Subliminal
>virtually ALL artists from Rhymesayers Ent.
blah, boring music.
Technique sounds soft.
Rhymesayers are good writers and bad rappers.
Subliminal
quest19...@webtv.net
<<Yeah, but so would 95% of the MCs that are out today. And if you try
playing an "old school" hip hop record at a club today, the dance floor
will probably empty. Times change. Get over it, man.>>
Agreed with your percentage. Which goes back to the original poster's
position. These "artists" are wack, but majors sign them and push that
mess. And since radio/TV aren't quite balanced, it's not hard to impress
impressionable youth and novices of the music/culture. It actually
speaks to the apathy of the fans or the fans simply accepting whatever's
given to them 15 times a day. Whenever someone says just "get over it",
what they're trying to say is accept whatever the mess is. And lastly,
with club owners doing the "18 to party, 21 to drink thing", I can see
where you'd say the dancefloor becoming empty(but classic hits are
classic hits)---that's a whole other thread. If I'm 37, why would a 19
year old be allowed "in da club" knowing how some youth have a
propensity to "tear up da club"?
quest19...@webtv.net
<<There's better chances of him masturbating to the Blueprint album.>>
Not really. But you listening to "Kristyle" and coming away a better
human being would be akin to giving Superman kryptonite---both would
prove lethal.
quest19...@webtv.net
<<blah, boring music.
Technique sounds soft.>>
An amazing assessment and this shows us where the youth are headed.
<<Rhymesayers are good writers and bad rappers.>>
An oxymoron to be sure.
mattmatical
Brother Ali says hi. And damn, even when it comes to Slug,
I can't see anyone claiming he's a 'bad rapper'. In fact, he's
better at rapping than he's at writing.
Matt
endus
wrote:
Yea Brother Ali has got it...for sure. As far as Slug...dude has it
too, but doesn't show it off enough. He can write and he can rap, but
he gets too mired in doing boring shit most of the time for me. He
makes one really super-ill song and the rest is filler.
----- endus at endus dot com ----
Tryin to minimize the issue but I'm keepin it large
I Love the place that I live but I hate the people in charge
-Immortal Technique
jess
<quest19...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:1927-402...@storefull-3132.bay.webtv.net...
> jess rhetorically asks:
> <<who currently is more deserving of attention?>>
nah, not rhetoric, geniune interest. although i could guess the kinda stuff
josh woulda reccomended.
> For starters:
>
> Immortal Technique
never heard of him. what to check?
> virtually ALL artists from Rhymesayers Ent.
ironically their website's hottest new release is actually kanye west :p
> Jean Grae(I'd wager she'd smoke him)
> J-Live
> People Under The Stairs
hmmm. not more deserving imo. perhaps equally. but they don't have new
records out right? which is why he's getting more attention right now.
> <<he's not the best, but he ain't bad.>>
>
> If he's not the best, who is? And when did Hip Hop start settling for
> wack so-called MCs? This sounds like a generational thing because he
> would've gotten laugh at everywhere he went just a decade ago---well, a
maybe, i've never listened to uch of the older stuff. all i can say is i
like him and he's a good mc.
Sco Dylan
>
> <quest19...@webtv.net> wrote in message
> news:1927-402...@storefull-3132.bay.webtv.net...
> > jess rhetorically asks:
> > <<who currently is more deserving of attention?>>
>
> nah, not rhetoric, geniune interest. although i could guess the kinda
stuff
> josh woulda reccomended.
Big Gipp.
quest19...@webtv.net
<<nah, not rhetoric, geniune interest. although i could guess the kinda
stuff josh woulda reccomended.>>
Point made. This makes sense in light of the fact that Josh recommended
stuff.
<<never heard of him. what to check?>>
I got wind of him back in October. I was reading his interview in
Elemental Magazine. And he just piqued my interest. Then, there's been
the feature of him over at Allhiphop.com. Before all of that, RMHH
members, endus and HoopKing33 have co-signed him. I had to see for
myself---I'm glad I did. Upon hearing this man, it was instant love--so
much so, I had to kiss the CD case, clinch my fist and say, "YES!". He's
the truth. You're checking for "Revolutionary vol. 2".
<<ironically their website's hottest new release is actually kanye west
:p>>
Indeed.
<<hmmm. not more deserving imo. perhaps equally. but they don't have new
records out right? which is why he's getting more attention right now.>>
People Under The Stairs dropped "...Or Stay Tuned" in early fall '03
while "Through The Wire" was shoved down our throats. Jean Grae's "The
Bootleg Of The Bootleg" dropped during this time as well. Marketing has
a way of drowning out all the real good stuff that's out.
<<maybe, i've never listened to uch of the older stuff. all i can say is
i like him and he's a good mc.>>
Right and that's typically the case. Because Hip Hop has a way of
virtually wiping out all that classic material or showing those videos
today, kids really think Hip Hop took off with Tupac and them---a lot of
kids simply don't know any better. Again, "the machine" has a lot to do
with shaping these kids perception and appreciation of the past. And
lastly, you like what you like and I respect that. I, on the other hand,
have heard a plethora of contemporary artists(in conjunction with West)
that are worlds better than this kid. PEACE!
Sir
>human being would be akin to giving Superman kryptonite---both would
>prove lethal.
You don't know shit about what kind of hip hop I listen to, so the merit in
that statement is non-existant like John Kruk's second testicle. I let my ears
do the approving/disapproving of music, not my eyes...by trashing any record
with a label logo on the back that I disapprove of.
Sir..
Dippi
> with club owners doing the "18 to party, 21 to drink thing", I can see
> where you'd say the dancefloor becoming empty(but classic hits are
> classic hits)---that's a whole other thread. If I'm 37, why would a 19
> year old be allowed "in da club" knowing how some youth have a
> propensity to "tear up da club"?
>
so you're saying that other people shouldn't be allowed to go to a club and
have fun listenin to the music they wanna listen to because thats not what
you want to listen to? Thats some selfish bullshit. I think its sad that
most people dont really feel the old school shit but hey, hip-hop has
changed alot since its started and everything has to change.
you wanna open yourself up a an over the hill hip-hop club? Have fun keepin
it open old man...
eventually as hip-hop moves more mainstream, we're gonna get a "classic
hip-hop" radio station like they have these classic rock stations,
personally I can't wait for one... and maybe you'll be able to have a club
like that,
but face it, its about money, there's not enough middle aged hip-hoppers
that go out to clubs, so why's the dj gonna be spinnin mad cuts from 20
years ago? Sure he'll throw in some old shit, or atleast shit but why should
he. The club demographic is people in their early 20's, and most of them
want to grove to somethin they know, so why is the dj gonna play a bunch of
joints from when their audience was like 3?
--
Dippi
"my life, seems like a movie but its real to me
and i aint feelin yall so I make music for me
yall hate me, but god did that up already
dont give a fuck no more, down to duel wit machettes"
Dippi
<quest19...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:18505-402...@storefull-3137.bay.webtv.net...
"emcees witout a voice should write a book"
Pizon
>
Ohh shit, it's on! Did DOC ever respond to that?
jess
news:28439-402...@storefull-3134.bay.webtv.net...
> jess says:
> <<never heard of him. what to check?>>
>
> I got wind of him back in October. I was reading his interview in
> Elemental Magazine. And he just piqued my interest. Then, there's been
> the feature of him over at Allhiphop.com. Before all of that, RMHH
> members, endus and HoopKing33 have co-signed him. I had to see for
> myself---I'm glad I did. Upon hearing this man, it was instant love--so
> much so, I had to kiss the CD case, clinch my fist and say, "YES!". He's
> the truth. You're checking for "Revolutionary vol. 2".
cool, thanks for the tip. hopefully this will be playing in the club, if not
could someone do the honours?
> <<hmmm. not more deserving imo. perhaps equally. but they don't have new
> records out right? which is why he's getting more attention right now.>>
>
> People Under The Stairs dropped "...Or Stay Tuned" in early fall '03
> while "Through The Wire" was shoved down our throats. Jean Grae's "The
> Bootleg Of The Bootleg" dropped during this time as well. Marketing has
> a way of drowning out all the real good stuff that's out.
k, my bad, didn't know they'd had stuff out recently.
> <<maybe, i've never listened to uch of the older stuff. all i can say is
> i like him and he's a good mc.>>
>
> Right and that's typically the case. Because Hip Hop has a way of
> virtually wiping out all that classic material or showing those videos
> today, kids really think Hip Hop took off with Tupac and them---a lot of
> kids simply don't know any better. Again, "the machine" has a lot to do
> with shaping these kids perception and appreciation of the past. And
> lastly, you like what you like and I respect that. I, on the other hand,
> have heard a plethora of contemporary artists(in conjunction with West)
> that are worlds better than this kid.
yeh, i think we'll have to agree to disagree. i accept that there may be
loads of people better than him but i haven't heard them. ateotd liking
something and it being good are two different issues, although i happen to
both like kanye west and think he's good.
Pizon
>that go out to clubs, so why's the dj gonna be spinnin mad cuts from 20
>years ago?
Exactly. Quest, as a 37-year-old hip hopper (and one that still goes to clubs,
no less) you're a minority to say the least.
I do understand that you acknowledge this, and that your argument is outside
the realm of this point. You're saying that most of the hip hop of today pales
in comparison to that of your generation. Fair enough, but realize this is
something everyone says as they get older. Ask your parents whose
music/culture was better, theirs or yours. As a member of the "new school" hip
hip generation, I'm sure I'll be saying the same thing in 20 years. And as
proposterous as it may sound to you, I'd rather listen to Kanye West than, say,
Biz Markie. I guess the joke's on me.
TJ Xenos
word. a breath of fresh air & a pleasnt surprise & alladat.
T.J. Xenos
"English? Who needs that? I'm never going to England. Let's go smoke." -
Homer Simpson
"great music is better than average sex" - Merle Haggard
quest19...@webtv.net
<<You don't know shit about what kind of hip hop I listen to, so the
merit in that statement is non-existant like John Kruk's second
testicle. I let my ears do the approving/disapproving of music, not my
eyes...by trashing any record with a label logo on the back that I
disapprove of.>>
I know enough to know that you are a bumbling idiot who goes throughout
this forum spewing ignorant lines about Hip Hop. Both eyes(and
definitely your ears) are non-discerning when it comes to music. This
shell of an explanation above proves this beyond words.
TJ Xenos
>People Under The Stairs dropped "...Or Stay Tuned" in early fall '03
>while "Through The Wire" was shoved down our throats. Jean Grae's "The
>Bootleg Of The Bootleg" dropped during this time as well. Marketing has
>a way of drowning out all the real good stuff that's out.
which is why everyone didnt hear thru the wire when it first came out over a
year ago. I agree, capitalism sucks.
quest19...@webtv.net
<<so you're saying that other people shouldn't be allowed to go to a
club and have fun listenin to the music they wanna listen to because
thats not what you want to listen to? Thats some selfish bullshit. I
think its sad that most people dont really feel the old school shit but
hey, hip-hop has changed alot since its started and everything has to
change.>>
That's exactly what I'm saying with a venue that carries alcohol on its'
premises. If you're under 21, you shouldn't be allowed in clubs that
have it. If you can't go to a regular liquor store and purchase it
because you're 19, why be allowed in the club? That's some REAL shit.
It's not about whether or not they "feel" the classics, I totally
understand that new music is coming---to imply your view here is crazy
at the least. The artists should step up with better work or balance it
out with the not-so-commercial. I've always said that. Your view here
goes nowhere.
<<you wanna open yourself up a an over the hill hip-hop club? Have fun
keepin it open old man.>>
You're being rhetorical as well as stupid. The ones geared toward that
fusion of young and old are having problems staying economically solvent
as well snot-nose. The youngsters are shooting them up damn near every
weekend.
<<eventually as hip-hop moves more mainstream, we're gonna get a
"classic hip-hop" radio station like they have these classic rock
stations, personally I can't wait for one... and maybe you'll be able to
have a club like that>>
Cool, this is about the most intelligent point you've had in your
diatribe. I agree. Since Hip Hop is ubiquitous, that time surely is now.
We shouldn't have to wait 20 more years---again, I call it balance
because the more mainstream artists are making a minstrel show of Hip
Hop, straight up.
<<but face it, its about money, there's not enough middle aged
hip-hoppers that go out to clubs, so why's the dj gonna be spinnin mad
cuts from 20 years ago? Sure he'll throw in some old shit, or atleast
shit but why should he. The club demographic is people in their early
20's, and most of them want to grove to somethin they know, so why is
the dj gonna play a bunch of joints from when their audience was like
3?>>
Hip Hop has become more business. And in so doing, a lot of what made
this culture attractive has waned. Kids equate skills with controversy.
This is where the "generational thing" doesn't add up. Everyone knows
Hip Hop culture is geared toward younger listeners, but the message was
always partying and learning. I believe if the music is banging, they
will come. The Legends Of Hip Hop tour proved this to me, bar none. I'm
also well versed in the club scene---$4 waters, $6 Budweiser, $1 bag of
Doritos, security screens. Yes, Hip Hop is doing fine along with the
music.....
quest19...@webtv.net
<<yeh, i think we'll have to agree to disagree. i accept that there may
be loads of people better than him but i haven't heard them. ateotd
liking something and it being good are two different issues, although i
happen to both like kanye west and think he's good.>>
Yes sir. And this strikes at the heart of the original post. Marketing
sways public opinion and to go outside of that is blasphemous to many.
What's REALLY hilarious is that MANY so-called underground MCs actually
have projects carried by FYE(which stands for F*ck You Everytime) and
other chain stores while the staff in these stores are some of the most
misinformed if you're looking for something different. I actually had
one guy at FYE tell me, after I asked him about Jedi Mind Tricks, "oh, I
think they're in the video game section". I've always said radio/video
should but the unknowns on their forums and let the fans decide instead
of force-feeding us.
quest19...@webtv.net
<<which is why everyone didnt hear thru the wire when it first came out
over a year ago. I agree, capitalism sucks.>>
I don't know how long West has been signed to Wack-A-Fella, but it
sounds like a label thing. Memphis Bleek's album was pushed back
although it was done. He said that it was due to his brother's injury
and Jigga-boo's impending retirement. That's not capitalism, more or
less label politics. P.U.T.S. and Jean Grae had albums out that unless
you happen to be a fan or a frequent visitor to this medium, it wouldn't
be a stretch to say that you might miss or never have heard of them. On
the other hand, with all the West hype---that's oversaturation.
bse
rocks...@aol.commonsense (Pizon) wrote:
> >This sounds like a generational thing because he
> >would've gotten laugh at everywhere he went just a decade ago---well, a
> >15 years ago.
>
> Yeah, but so would 95% of the MCs that are out today. And if you try playing
> an "old school" hip hop record at a club today, the dance floor will probably
> empty. Times change. Get over it, man.
I disagree with this "They wouldnt have cut it ten years ago" shit.
Bollocks. There were just different styles back then so whats hot now
wouldnt have been hot then. Now you cant play the generational card on
me cos I fukcing lvoe old hiphop, and saying things have regressed is BS
in the fullest.
Were Onyx much better rappers than the Eastside boyz? Not particularly.
Were Whodini much better than Twista? No.
It's all jsut silly. yes Rakim and Kool G Rap were awesome in 88, but
were they the best selling artists then? hell no. Doom and J-Live are
superb now and sell enough to go on. While back then you had Kid n Play
selling silly units with not too much skills, and now you have Kanye
West who cant really rap all that good but has a nice heart selling
units. ITS ALL THE SAME.
bse
--
"Most incredibly!"
To reply by email, remove "YOURHANDSFROMYOURLAP".
http://www.ukseen.com/nice
http://www.ukseen.com/kmd
bse
quest19...@webtv.net wrote:
> <<oh and he can't rap.>>
>
> Typical. He's a producer---from Timbaland to Jay Dee he falls right in
> line.
What about KRS-One, hes a producer can he rap?
How about EPMD?
How about Lord Finesse?
How about Diamond D?
How about Doom?
Stupidness.
Sco Dylan
"TJ Xenos" <talv...@aol.comeinureye> wrote in message
news:20040213162133...@mb-m17.aol.com...
> >
> >>cuz that Kanye West is NOT deserving of so much attention...get off his
> >>dick.
> >
> >It's a real good album, and rap needed one.
> >Subliminal
>
> word. a breath of fresh air & a pleasnt surprise & alladat.
A breath of fresh air to the ignorant.
Nothing new about it.
At all.
Twista is killin Kanye.
So is The Jacka.
And Turf Talk.
I'd rather listen to "My Street" by Bad Azz or something...
quest19...@webtv.net
<<What about KRS-One, hes a producer can he rap?
How about EPMD?
How about Lord Finesse?
How about Diamond D?
How about Doom?
Stupidness.>>
All of the people you mentioned here are known primarily for the lyrical
skills. These skills inspire folks like West who clearly do a booty job
of keeping the fire going. You, of all people, should know that. To
compare Kanye West to any one of these artists shows all that know Hip
Hop your all-encompassing stupidity. I'm ashamed of you.
bse
quest19...@webtv.net wrote:
What West hype? Some source adds? Some radio play?
The real reasons why people are hyped is:
The respect gained from 5 odd years of dope beats, and not so many that
people are tired of him.
A hot single.
Positive rhymes (Quest isn't feeling Kanye's positive shit but does feel
Dead Prez? whatever, admit you just dont like to see people get on, shit
is tired)
Word of mouth. If everyone is being spoonfed by radio djs and adverts
how comes no one can say his fucking name properly? WORD OF MOUTH and
people liking the track today. i heard a girl at work today ask "Whats
that track with the speeded up soul sample" answered "through the wire
by Cain West", "I wish that guy had a CD. I like how he appologises for
sounding shit cos he got mashed by a car". Proper.
This is the best example ever of quest's self proclaimed principles
being bare faced lies. Perpetration.
quest19...@webtv.net
<<I disagree with this "They wouldnt have cut it ten years ago" shit.
Bollocks. There were just different styles back then so whats hot now
wouldnt have been hot then. Now you cant play the generational card on
me cos I fukcing lvoe old hiphop, and saying things have regressed is BS
in the fullest.>>
It's not a "card" that I'm playing. This is history. Skills are skills
in any era. You're trying to attach booty rappers of today on par with
pioneering heavyweights---bollocks. If you love old school like you say,
you can't sit there in good conscious and say the stupid line you just
said.
<<Were Onyx much better rappers than the Eastside boyz? Not
particularly.>>
Sticky Fingaz ALONE pisses on Lil Jon---remarkable that you'd make this
comparison.
<<Were Whodini much better than Twista? No.>>
You tell me. "Friends", "Five Minutes Of Funk", "One Love" to "Emotions"
and now, "Slow Jam"---you tell me.
<<It's all jsut silly. yes Rakim and Kool G Rap were awesome in 88, but
were they the best selling artists then? hell no. Doom and J-Live are
superb now and sell enough to go on. While back then you had Kid n Play
selling silly units with not too much skills, and now you have Kanye
West who cant really rap all that good but has a nice heart selling
units. ITS ALL THE SAME.>>
No, your view is silly and bordering on insanity. And the "it's all the
same" theory shows us as much. What would've been "droppin' knowledge"
is now "preachy" and "thuggin'" is "keepin' it real". An interesting
twist on MCing. It's just that heads have settled on booty MCs and
labels passing them off(through heavy marketing) dope that folks believe
that mess. Selling units does not equate to skills, no sir.
Nestajones
>Date: 2/13/2004 8:02 PM Eastern Standard Time
><<What about KRS-One, hes a producer can he rap?
>How about EPMD?
>How about Lord Finesse?
>How about Diamond D?
>How about Doom?
>Stupidness.>>
>
>All of the people you mentioned here are known primarily for the lyrical
>skills.
right, diamond made his name as an mc.
Subliminal
>too, but doesn't show it off enough. He can write and he can rap, but
>he gets too mired in doing boring shit most of the time for me. He
>makes one really super-ill song and the rest is filler.
>
Slugs the only one of all them I like.
Subliminal
Nestajones
>Date: 2/13/2004 8:20 PM Eastern Standard Time
><<It's all jsut silly. yes Rakim and Kool G Rap were awesome in 88, but
>were they the best selling artists then? hell no. Doom and J-Live are
>superb now and sell enough to go on. While back then you had Kid n Play
>selling silly units with not too much skills, and now you have Kanye
>West who cant really rap all that good but has a nice heart selling
>units. ITS ALL THE SAME.>>
>No, your view is silly and bordering on insanity. And the "it's all the
>same" theory shows us as much. What would've been "droppin' knowledge"
>is now "preachy" and "thuggin'" is "keepin' it real". An interesting
>twist on MCing. It's just that heads have settled on booty MCs and
>labels passing them off(through heavy marketing) dope that folks believe
>that mess. Selling units does not equate to skills, no sir.
you're insane.
it's time to upgrade your software, because the Quest Automated Response System
just can't keep pace in these changing times. you have like 5 ideas you pass
off in response to every thread, in addition to the childish repartee with
every poster who doesn't subscribe to your gospel of hip-hop. it's just
remarkable, for all your constant yammering about people lacking reading
comprehension, you manage to miss the point of every post you read. and then
you spit out your predictable bullshit, which is only entertaining due to your
completely convoluted prose.
read what you just wrote. you come out calling bse's statement crazy, and end
up agreeing with what he just fuckin said.
this is more proof you're just a bot. your software is incapable of
comprehending an entire paragraph. it scans for keywords, and then posts the
prescripted response which seems to correspond. but it's just missing the
target again and again, and we've seen it all before anyway.
upgrade, quest, upgrade!
bozak
"Dippi" <dippi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a39Xb.5016$cE3.3...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
> And lastly,
> > with club owners doing the "18 to party, 21 to drink thing", I can see
> > where you'd say the dancefloor becoming empty(but classic hits are
> > classic hits)---that's a whole other thread. If I'm 37, why would a 19
> > year old be allowed "in da club" knowing how some youth have a
> > propensity to "tear up da club"?
> >
>
> so you're saying that other people shouldn't be allowed to go to a club and
> have fun listenin to the music they wanna listen to because thats not what
> you want to listen to? Thats some selfish bullshit. I think its sad that
> most people dont really feel the old school shit but hey, hip-hop has
> changed alot since its started and everything has to change.
>
> you wanna open yourself up a an over the hill hip-hop club? Have fun keepin
> it open old man...
>
> eventually as hip-hop moves more mainstream, we're gonna get a "classic
> hip-hop" radio station like they have these classic rock stations,
> personally I can't wait for one... and maybe you'll be able to have a club
> like that,
they already have them on directv digital radio as well as sirrus,
and that other satellite radio company...
bse
quest19...@webtv.net wrote:
> bse amazingly tells us:
>
> <<What about KRS-One, hes a producer can he rap?
> How about EPMD?
> How about Lord Finesse?
> How about Diamond D?
> How about Doom?
> Stupidness.>>
>
> All of the people you mentioned here are known primarily for the lyrical
> skills.
WHAAAT?
Daimond D is known primarily for his lyrical skills? Are you crazy? You
think people spend $150 on his album for his RHYMES and hunt down his
guest appearances for his RAPPING and not his beats?
You listen to EPMD albums and think the lyrics are better than the beats?
The others I'll give you.
bse
reasons outlined nicely by Nesta on teh next post.
In article <14455-402...@storefull-3136.bay.webtv.net>,
quest19...@webtv.net wrote:
> <<Were Onyx much better rappers than the Eastside boyz? Not
> particularly.>>
>
> Sticky Fingaz ALONE pisses on Lil Jon---remarkable that you'd make this
> comparison.
Kind of, but you think SLAM has much better lyrics than Get Low?
Technically and musically?
> <<Were Whodini much better than Twista? No.>>
>
> You tell me. "Friends", "Five Minutes Of Funk", "One Love" to "Emotions"
> and now, "Slow Jam"---you tell me.
YOU DIV! You just said skills in the previous bit and now your saing
SONGS????!!!!!! I much prefer the songs you mention by Whodini to Slow
Jams but we were talking skills right? So stop being a doofus and argue
properly. You REALLY think that Whodini had more skills?
AND DONT COME BACK WITH HOW PIONEERING THEY WERE COS THATS NOT WHAT WERE
TALKING ABOUT.
> <<It's all jsut silly. yes Rakim and Kool G Rap were awesome in 88, but
> were they the best selling artists then? hell no. Doom and J-Live are
> superb now and sell enough to go on. While back then you had Kid n Play
> selling silly units with not too much skills, and now you have Kanye
> West who cant really rap all that good but has a nice heart selling
> units. ITS ALL THE SAME.>>
>
> No, your view is silly and bordering on insanity.
What do you MEAN by "no"? You mean NO kid and play had more skills than
Kanye?
or do you mean "NO im not playing and Im taking my ball with me"?
> And the "it's all the
> same" theory shows us as much. What would've been "droppin' knowledge"
> is now "preachy" and "thuggin'" is "keepin' it real".
YOURE BLIND BABY... some people were allways calling knowledge dropping
rappers preachy. FACT. Knowledge rappers still put DANCE cuts on thier
albums back then, they DONT now and get called boring and preachy
because of that. FACT. I fucking love intelligent, socially aware
hiphop, but half the acts you hammer on about have forgotten the MUSIC.
The ISIS album has a hip-house track for the clubs on it. Can you
possibly imagine that now?
> An interesting
> twist on MCing. It's just that heads have settled on booty MCs and
> labels passing them off(through heavy marketing) dope that folks believe
> that mess.
But Quest, what about the fact that MF Doom and Siah are in my top 6
rappers of all time? Who told me to listen to them? and if itwasnt the
radio does that mean Im not just settling for booty MCs? and then maybe
is my oppinion on the ones you call booty not valid? Or is it just me
and all who can see the world in less than black and white being brain
washed?
>Selling units does not equate to skills, no sir.
fix up look sharp. Like nesta says, get an upgrade, you must be boring
yourself.
suntzu
> In article <14459-40...@storefull-3136.bay.webtv.net>,
> quest19...@webtv.net wrote:
>
>
>>bse amazingly tells us:
>>
>><<What about KRS-One, hes a producer can he rap?
>>How about EPMD?
>>How about Lord Finesse?
>>How about Diamond D?
>>How about Doom?
>>Stupidness.>>
>>
>>All of the people you mentioned here are known primarily for the lyrical
>>skills.
>
>
> WHAAAT?
>
> Daimond D is known primarily for his lyrical skills? Are you crazy? You
> think people spend $150 on his album for his RHYMES and hunt down his
> guest appearances for his RAPPING and not his beats?
>
> You listen to EPMD albums and think the lyrics are better than the beats?
>
> The others I'll give you.
>
> bse
>
i'd say doom is just as known for his beats as for his lyrics.
bse
suntzu <sun...@freeshell.org> wrote:
> bse wrote:
> > WHAAAT?
> >
> > Daimond D is known primarily for his lyrical skills? Are you crazy? You
> > think people spend $150 on his album for his RHYMES and hunt down his
> > guest appearances for his RAPPING and not his beats?
> >
> > You listen to EPMD albums and think the lyrics are better than the beats?
> >
> > The others I'll give you.
> >
> > bse
> >
>
> i'd say doom is just as known for his beats as for his lyrics.
I think he CAN be as nice with his beats as he is with his rhymes but he
is KNOWN for his rhymes. Certainly in the last couple of years. The
superiority of Vik Vaughn over Ghidrah has solidified that.
I likes em both but hes more solid with his rhymes than beats. his best
beats are the bestest. bse.
quest19...@webtv.net
<<right, diamond made his name as an mc.>>
I first came across him as an MC with "Best Kept Secret". Later on, I
found out that he produced. Same with Zev Love X. So you say this to say
what?
quest19...@webtv.net
<<What West hype? Some source adds? Some radio play?>>
Yes, West hype! Some radio play?! How about that one song coming on 3
times in 2 hours---daily--here in the Illadelph. I'm sure it's like that
across the country.
<<The real reasons why people are hyped is:
The respect gained from 5 odd years of dope beats, and not so many that
people are tired of him.
A hot single.
Positive rhymes (Quest isn't feeling Kanye's positive shit but does feel
Dead Prez? whatever, admit you just dont like to see people get on, shit
is tired)>>
As I've said, I like Talib Kweli's politics but not necessarily his
rhyme style. Kanye West, hype notwithstanding, is in this category
irrespective of his actual politics. He's just booty to me from what
I've heard. And yes, I feel dead prez much more so. You and I are both
here talking about them. No one knows you or I, so I say more power to
them both professionally. To me, Kanye is booty and I like dead prez.
You may feel in the reverse. My view is just a tired as yours is, but
I'm much more consistent than your wishy-washy ass.
<<Word of mouth. If everyone is being spoonfed by radio djs and adverts
how comes no one can say his fucking name properly? WORD OF MOUTH and
people liking the track today. i heard a girl at work today ask "Whats
that track with the speeded up soul sample" answered "through the wire
by Cain West", "I wish that guy had a CD. I like how he appologises for
sounding shit cos he got mashed by a car". Proper.
This is the best example ever of quest's self proclaimed principles
being bare faced lies. Perpetration.>>
What?! You are a fool. So what people mispronounce this kid's name. I
heard it done over the weekend by an annoucer at a charity b-ball game
he was to perform at. If this is your best defense showing why I'm a
liar about what I stand for and the like, you have no defense. You want
to talk to make yourself look like an idiot.
quest19...@webtv.net
<<you're insane.
it's time to upgrade your software, because the Quest Automated Response
System just can't keep pace in these changing times. you have like 5
ideas you pass off in response to every thread, in addition to the
childish repartee with every poster who doesn't subscribe to your gospel
of hip-hop.>>
Here's the deal: You dick-ride a lot and that's cool if that makes you
feel like you're a part of the group. I have ideas and you just latch on
to ones you wished you thought of. This is apparent in the way you
consistent piggyback other's posts. I don't ask that anyone subscribe to
how I view Hip Hop nor do I profess to know everything that IS Hip Hop.
One thing I do know is that you obviously read my views with
fervor--that's good, I suppose. But you really should get your own
thinking together.
<<it's just remarkable, for all your constant yammering about people
lacking reading comprehension, you manage to miss the point of every
post you read. and then you spit out your predictable bullshit, which is
only entertaining due to your completely convoluted prose.>>
That's your story, one that is clearly off the mark. Again, I am glad
that you read my posts so carefully. You actually may be learning
something, but your pride obviously is getting in the way. Keep reading.
<<read what you just wrote. you come out calling bse's statement crazy,
and end up agreeing with what he just fuckin said.
this is more proof you're just a bot. your software is incapable of
comprehending an entire paragraph. it scans for keywords, and then posts
the prescripted response which seems to correspond. but it's just
missing the target again and again, and we've seen it all before
anyway.>>
Where is this "proof". It takes a droid like yourself to take things out
of context. If my views are so "predictable", you can always just NOT
respond to them or at the very least try not to dick-ride other people
who may/may not agree with what I said here. I ONLY respond to your
stupidity whenever you do the dick-riding. I think it is you that is
most predictable. How can you live with yourself being like that? You're
like a kid in school wanting to be down so bad that you'll eat shit just
to be noticed. "We've seen it all before..", I laugh at you.
mochaspresso
wrote:
>
>As I've said, I like Talib Kweli's politics but not necessarily his
>rhyme style. Kanye West, hype notwithstanding, is in this category
>irrespective of his actual politics. He's just booty to me from what
>I've heard. And yes, I feel dead prez much more so. You and I are both
>here talking about them. No one knows you or I, so I say more power to
>them both professionally. To me, Kanye is booty and I like dead prez.
What exactly don't you like about Kanye? Why exactly is he "booty"?
......I don't think it's relevant to the above question but FWIW, I
like Kanye and Dead Prez.
-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->
Mochaspresso
To know how to choose a path with heart is to learn
how to follow intuitive feeling. Logic can tell you
superficially where a path might lead to, but it cannot
judge whether your heart will be in it.
-- Jean Shinoda Bolen
Nestajones
>Date: 2/16/2004 8:00 PM Eastern Standard Time
>I have ideas and you just latch on
>to ones you wished you thought of.
right, seeing how often i agree with you, it's obvious you've just stolen all
my ideas.
>This is apparent in the way you
>consistent piggyback other's posts.
your disses don't even make sense. see, the way usenet works is people post,
and others respond, creating a "thread." i guess to some folks that's
"dickriding" or "piggybacking." the rest of us usually call it "conversing,"
"building," or maybe even "arguing." didn't we just go through this a couple
weeks ago?
ISV
> <<oh and he can't rap.>>
>
> Typical. He's a producer---from Timbaland to Jay Dee he falls right in
> line.
Just like Dj Quik right? Like Daz maybe.
ILL
bse
quest19...@webtv.net wrote:
Diamond is not best known as an MC. Thats what we were talking about,
remember. Are you saying he is best known as an emcee because YOU didn't
know he produced?
bse
quest19...@webtv.net
<<What exactly don't you like about Kanye? Why exactly is he "booty"?>>
When I first heard "Through The Wire". I'd say for me, it's his "flow".
Not quite like Kweli where he tries to cram a dissertation into one
verse(that's my biggest turn-off with him), but basically how he rhymes.
<<I don't think it's relevant to the above question but FWIW, I like
Kanye and Dead Prez.>>
Well that good. We all have our own tastes for whatever reason. Even if
West was "conscious" as is attributed to Kweli, it would be more or less
"how" he rhymes.
quest19...@webtv.net
<<right, seeing how often i agree with you, it's obvious you've just
stolen all my ideas.>>
a disagreement with a response of mine, you'll paste that onto yours,
then go, "we've all seen this before". In essense, a dick-rider.
<<your disses don't even make sense. see, the way usenet works is people
post, and others respond, creating a "thread." i guess to some folks
that's "dickriding" or "piggybacking." the rest of us usually call it
"conversing," "building," or maybe even "arguing." didn't we just go
through this a couple weeks ago?>>
Yes, we went through it and are repeating the cycle again because you
love to dick-ride others. It's not a dis, but a matter of fact. Thanks
for your "instruction", but you yourself don't attempt to do any of the
stuff you're talking about here. Which makes you a hypocrite. All you do
is wait for someone else to make a disparaging comment(this almost
always the case with you) about whatever, then go "see, that's what I'm
talking about, too". You're consistent with this.
quest19...@webtv.net
<<Just like Dj Quik right? Like Daz maybe.>>
Just like that--you guessed right.
quest19...@webtv.net
<<Diamond is not best known as an MC. Thats what we were talking about,
remember. Are you saying he is best known as an emcee because YOU didn't
know he produced?>>
No, ACTUALLY, we were discussing how promotion puts a relatively new
artist over the top. That's what this thread was originally, was it not?
And as is the case with many in our collective, they'll ensure that the
thread takes goes on a serious tangent. Now that we're back on track,
I'll say that a few months later after I first heard "Best Kept Secret",
I was informed that he produced; sort of like Large Professor. I didn't
know at first that he dabble into producing while he was the lead for
Main Source(liner notes wasn't my thing back then).
mochaspresso
wrote:
>mochaspresso asks:
><<What exactly don't you like about Kanye? Why exactly is he "booty"?>>
>
>When I first heard "Through The Wire". I'd say for me, it's his "flow".
>Not quite like Kweli where he tries to cram a dissertation into one
>verse(that's my biggest turn-off with him), but basically how he rhymes.
>
Fair enough........although, I wonder if you've heard any other songs?
I only ask because I don't think "Through The Wire" on it's own is a
fair song to judge his flow on because he's really singing. I also
think the flow that he chose for "Through The Wire" actually fits the
song. Sometimes it's not just about how well you can flow.....but
also well you can flow to whatever beat you're working with.
><<I don't think it's relevant to the above question but FWIW, I like
>Kanye and Dead Prez.>>
>
>Well that good. We all have our own tastes for whatever reason. Even if
>West was "conscious" as is attributed to Kweli, it would be more or less
>"how" he rhymes.
I think the "conscious" label attributed to Kweli is a bit of a
misnomer anyway.
-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->
Mochaspresso
When it comes to being true....at least true to me
One thing I found (one thing I found)
Oh no, you'll never let me down,
-- Kanye West "Never Let Me Down"
mochaspresso
<mochas...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>Fair enough........although, I wonder if you've heard any other songs?
>I only ask because I don't think "Through The Wire" on it's own is a
>fair song to judge his flow on because he's really singing. I also
>think the flow that he chose for "Through The Wire" actually fits the
>song. Sometimes it's not just about how well you can flow.....but
>also well you can flow to whatever beat you're working with.
>
I see that I'm jumbling thoughts and songs this morning. Sorry.
"Slow Jamz" is the song where he's singing and "Through the Wire" is
the song that he made while his jaws were still recouperating from
reconstructive surgery. Despite the mix up, neither one is a fair
song to judge his flow on.
bse
quest19...@webtv.net wrote:
> bse says:
> <<Diamond is not best known as an MC. Thats what we were talking about,
> remember. Are you saying he is best known as an emcee because YOU didn't
> know he produced?>>
>
> No, ACTUALLY, we were discussing how promotion puts a relatively new
> artist over the top. That's what this thread was originally, was it not?
> And as is the case with many in our collective, they'll ensure that the
> thread takes goes on a serious tangent.
Heheh. You talk like a crazy man. We were talking about producer/rappers
because you said Kanye sucked like most Producers who rapped, and I was
listing some dope producers then rapped. Not exactly a crazy tangent.
> Now that we're back on track,
> I'll say that a few months later after I first heard "Best Kept Secret",
> I was informed that he produced; sort of like Large Professor. I didn't
> know at first that he dabble into producing while he was the lead for
> Main Source(liner notes wasn't my thing back then).
Dabbled? I like that. The man is a stone cold producer. The rapping is
on top of that.
quest19...@webtv.net
<<Heheh. You talk like a crazy man. We were talking about
producer/rappers because you said Kanye sucked like most Producers who
rapped, and I was listing some dope producers then rapped. Not exactly a
crazy tangent.>>
No, I think you wish that view were crazy and it's not. I said that I
don't think he's not good--yet I co-signed the fact that regardless of
whether or not we thought he was dope, the wheels of marketing continue
to turn. That's my stance in a nutshell, no more no less.
<<Dabbled? I like that. The man is a stone cold producer. The rapping is
on top of that.>>
I'm glad you like that. I'd dare say that most of the Hip Hop world
first got wind of Diamond D. as an MC(ala Large Professor). As you
research, you find out that he produces(ala LP). If you want me to defer
to the fact that he's more known as a producer, cool. I'd like to know
when this came about. I'm wagering that most of heads knew him "first"
as an MC.
quest19...@webtv.net
<<I see that I'm jumbling thoughts and songs this morning. Sorry. "Slow
Jamz" is the song where he's singing and "Through the Wire" is the song
that he made while his jaws were still recouperating from reconstructive
surgery. Despite the mix up, neither one is a fair song to judge his
flow on.>>
It's alright, mocha. No need for disclaimers or the like. Sometimes in
our group however, I can understand where you're coming from, but that's
not me. I realize that he was healing from his wreck when he did that
song. He also made a point(I believe on MTV2) to say what great a thing
it was for him to do the song while being medicated for the pain he
endured. I'm thinking, "wow, he's really dedicated".
quest19...@webtv.net
<<Fair enough........although, I wonder if you've heard any other songs?
I only ask because I don't think "Through The Wire" on it's own is a
fair song to judge his flow on because he's really singing. I also think
the flow that he chose for "Through The Wire" actually fits the song.
Sometimes it's not just about how well you can flow.....but also well
you can flow to whatever beat you're working with.>>
beats, to sing a "rap song" is an oxymoron isn't it? I think, as Hip
Hoppers, we've adjusted to fighting through that and we hear a "flow"
regardless. Like "Through The Wire" it was also the case in "Slow
Jamz"---it's rap done to a "sing-songy" flow. Nelly is blamed for this
as well.
<<I think the "conscious" label attributed to Kweli is a bit of a
misnomer anyway.>>
I think in today's atmosphere, he's definitely conscious relative to
socio-political issues. In that realm, most reporters(news agencies)
almost never seek out "gangsta" rappers for their take on issues of the
day when they're trying to get perspective from the "Hip Hop" community.
It's not to say that 50 Cent doesn't have an opinion on global
terrorism, it's just that what you hear in his content would make you
think his view isn't at all that deep. That's a very consistent pattern
that the media stays on, and from what I've seen and read, Kweli
consistently shines relative to current affairs.
bse
quest19...@webtv.net wrote:
> <<Dabbled? I like that. The man is a stone cold producer. The rapping is
> on top of that.>>
>
> I'm glad you like that. I'd dare say that most of the Hip Hop world
> first got wind of Diamond D. as an MC(ala Large Professor). As you
> research, you find out that he produces(ala LP). If you want me to defer
> to the fact that he's more known as a producer, cool. I'd like to know
> when this came about. I'm wagering that most of heads knew him "first"
> as an MC.
This is of course, of no consequence, but I should think most people
first noticed him as the only person to guest produce a track on Low End
Theory. That is a big deal.
Other than that a bunch of people will have known him from "I cant take
no more", a track which I would assume most people thought he was just
the DJ on.
quest19...@webtv.net
<<This is of course, of no consequence, but I should think most people
first noticed him as the only person to guest produce a track on Low End
Theory. That is a big deal.>>
How is it "of no consequence"? This is his history we're discussing. I'm
of the opinion that most heads trace him to "Best Kept Secret"---and
then they discover that he produces. I'm sure many are like that about
LP. I believe the single(and his album)"Best Kept Secret" was out before
"The Low End Theory", so his history predates what you assert here.
<<Other than that a bunch of people will have known him from "I cant
take no more", a track which I would assume most people thought he was
just the DJ on.>>
I'd dare say that this would be heads coming into his history later. I
find this to be true with Twista. LOTS of people I hear talking about
Twista think he's a new artist. They don't know about "Tung" Twista,
"Emotions", his work with The Union, or Do Or Die, or the Guiness
Book/World Records.
Steve S. Jackson
> mochaspresso says:
>
> <<I think the "conscious" label attributed to Kweli is a bit of a
> misnomer anyway.>>
>
> I think in today's atmosphere, he's definitely conscious relative to
> socio-political issues.
If i'm remembering correctly, in an okayplayer interview a few years
ago (after Reflection Eternal came out), he said he wasn't or didn't
want to be known as a conscious rapper. He didn't want to be
classified with PE or X-Clan or any of those cats. He said that
limits him and unfairly puts him on a pedestal. I agree. Listening
to Kweli's last jawn, he's just a Brooklyn MC who's talks about more
than guns and blunts and hos. But he still talks about them.
> In that realm, most reporters(news agencies)
> almost never seek out "gangsta" rappers for their take on issues of the
> day when they're trying to get perspective from the "Hip Hop" community.
> It's not to say that 50 Cent doesn't have an opinion on global
> terrorism, it's just that what you hear in his content would make you
> think his view isn't at all that deep. That's a very consistent pattern
> that the media stays on, and from what I've seen and read, Kweli
> consistently shines relative to current affairs.
I agree... somewhat. What makes you think 50 doesn't have a deeper
understanding on current affairs?
BTW, sorry I'm like mad late on this discussion.
Nestajones
>Date: 2/18/2004 11:34 PM Eastern Standard Time
>> It's not to say that 50 Cent doesn't have an opinion on global
>> terrorism, it's just that what you hear in his content would make you
>> think his view isn't at all that deep.
>I agree... somewhat. What makes you think 50 doesn't have a deeper
>understanding on current affairs?
nah you misread it...he's saying 50 cent may well have a deep understanding,
but he doesn't give off that impression through his music, and thus he's not
the token mc media would ask for an opinion.
mochaspresso
wrote:
>
>I think in today's atmosphere, he's definitely conscious relative to
>socio-political issues. In that realm, most reporters(news agencies)
>almost never seek out "gangsta" rappers for their take on issues of the
>day when they're trying to get perspective from the "Hip Hop" community.
>It's not to say that 50 Cent doesn't have an opinion on global
>terrorism, it's just that what you hear in his content would make you
>think his view isn't at all that deep. That's a very consistent pattern
>that the media stays on, and from what I've seen and read, Kweli
>consistently shines relative to current affairs.
Thing is, I didn't get the impression that PE was "all that deep" from
their first album. Nor from KRS-1's.
From listening, I don't think the stretch between 50 and Talib Kweli
is as wide as folks want to make it out to be. Also from listening, I
think that Kanye West is actually much closer to Kweli on that
spectrum than he is to 50.
mattmatical
> of the opinion that most heads trace him to "Best Kept Secret"---and
> then they discover that he produces. I'm sure many are like that about
> LP. I believe the single(and his album)"Best Kept Secret" was out before
> "The Low End Theory", so his history predates what you assert here.
I know "Low End" was '91, while "Stunts, Blunts" was '92. Don't
know about "Best Kept Secret" though. However, I have to agree
with quest here. Unless you were checking for producer credits on
Lord Finesse's first or the Showbiz & AG EP, most people probably
first knew about Diamond with "Best Kept Secret".
Matt
Pizon
>think that Kanye West is actually much closer to Kweli on that
>spectrum than he is to 50.
There's no doubt about that. The difference is that Kanye has the commercial
appeal, and Kweli doesn't. So Kanye's blowing up is a great thing for the game
(to those of us tired of all the stale shit, anyway).
Get at me,
Pizon
http://www.lascalaentertainment.com
--
...P.I. till I die and I just laugh at you cats...
quest19...@webtv.net
<<If i'm remembering correctly, in an okayplayer interview a few years
ago (after Reflection Eternal came out), he said he wasn't or didn't
want to be known as a conscious rapper. He didn't want to be classified
with PE or X-Clan or any of those cats. He said that limits him and
unfairly puts him on a pedestal. I agree. Listening to Kweli's last
jawn, he's just a Brooklyn MC who's talks about more than guns and
blunts and hos. But he still talks about them.>>
I think I may have read that as well. Unfortunately, he's labelled as
such and I agree that any label, other than "human", limits or
categorizes you. And him talking about it(and their effects) is not
nearly as bad as relishing in the fact that you have an excess of them.
If this is the core of your lyricism---what are you really saying?
Akrobatik---even KRS-One put them in rhymes, but they also have and end
road that's not pretty.
<<I agree... somewhat. What makes you think 50 doesn't have a deeper
understanding on current affairs?>>
I know, Steve. I think you were chomping at the bit to respond to this
part. Amazingly, Nestajones rightly interpreted what the point was.
<<BTW, sorry I'm like mad late on this discussion.>>
Better late than never---just take your time reading.
quest19...@webtv.net
<<nah you misread it...he's saying 50 cent may well have a deep
understanding, but he doesn't give off that impression through his
music, and thus he's not the token mc media would ask for an opinion.>>
No words from this respondent other than, "props".
quest19...@webtv.net
<<Thing is, I didn't get the impression that PE was "all that deep" from
their first album. Nor from KRS-1's.>>
So I don't make an assumption, in your view, what is "all that deep" to
you?
<<From listening, I don't think the stretch between 50 and Talib Kweli
is as wide as folks want to make it out to be. Also from listening, I
think that Kanye West is actually much closer to Kweli on that spectrum
than he is to 50.>>
Really?! If you would, just a quick tally on how you think they're even
in the same orbit---save for being from NYC, 50 Cent being XXL's editor
for an issue(that interviewed Kweli), and are rappers. The West-Kweli
theory could be possible, but as I said earlier(and often), I agree with
most of the latter's politics, it's just his MCing that's in question to
me. And after hearing West's debut, he didn't move me with his rhymes.
What he says on some of his tracks, Baby Blak does so as
well---eloquently.
mochaspresso
wrote:
>mochaspresso believes:
><<Thing is, I didn't get the impression that PE was "all that deep" from
>their first album. Nor from KRS-1's.>>
>
>So I don't make an assumption, in your view, what is "all that deep" to
>you?
>
Maybe I should have asked you that question at first as well? "All
that deep" was in quotes because based on your remark about 50's
possible views on issues like global terrorism, I made an assumption
that by "all that deep", you were speaking of lyrics that were
politically/socially conscious. Which were themes that were not
always present in all of PE's and BDP's earliest work.
Now, what does "all the deep" mean to me? I personally don't think
one has to necessarily rhyme about socially conscious or political
issues to be considered "deep". In that respect, I think that a song
like 50's "21 Questions" is deep in the sense that it's
introspective. To me "deep" means lyrics that express emotions or
feelings. It's also lyrics that are descriptive and paint a vivid
mental image or tell a story eloquently. If I can make any sort of
personal connection w/ the lyrics in some respect, I think that they
can be considered "deep".
><<From listening, I don't think the stretch between 50 and Talib Kweli
>is as wide as folks want to make it out to be. Also from listening, I
>think that Kanye West is actually much closer to Kweli on that spectrum
>than he is to 50.>>
>
>Really?! If you would, just a quick tally on how you think they're even
>in the same orbit---save for being from NYC, 50 Cent being XXL's editor
>for an issue(that interviewed Kweli), and are rappers.
If you're just going by the singles, I guess it's harder to see. When
I listen to their albums......imo, the topics aren't all that much
different. Talib does his fair shair of bragging and he also talks
about his fair shair of women. Mos Def too. They just don't do it on
the "gangsta" or "thuggish" tip that 50 does.
>The West-Kweli
>theory could be possible, but as I said earlier(and often), I agree with
>most of the latter's politics, it's just his MCing that's in question to
>me. And after hearing West's debut, he didn't move me with his rhymes.
>What he says on some of his tracks, Baby Blak does so as
>well---eloquently.
What a strange/interesting comparison.....in that spectrum that I was
talking about earlier, I'd actually put Baby Blak somewhere closer to
50 than to kweli.....mostly due to language but for other reasons as
well. If we're talking technical skills and nothing more, Baby Blak
is definitely the better MC....but I tend to pay more attention to the
total package and how much I enjoy it rather than individual pieces of
it. Being the best rapper doesn't automatically mean that I'm going
to like your album the best. Like I said in an earlier
post....Bahamadia is the better rapper but imo, Angie Martinez made
the better album. I guess I'll chalk that one up to personal tastes
and personal experiences. Nothing against him.....he's OK. I just
like Kanye's album better. Probably due in part to production and I
think I probably just identified more w/ it.
-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->
Mochaspresso
Let my tombstone read "I tried and from the start
everything that I wrote was from the heart.
So it will always be number one on my chart"
I get sensitive with my shit. Don't fuck with my art.
--50 Cent "The Good Die Young"
bse
quest19...@webtv.net wrote:
> bse says:
> <<This is of course, of no consequence, but I should think most people
> first noticed him as the only person to guest produce a track on Low End
> Theory. That is a big deal.>>
>
> How is it "of no consequence"? This is his history we're discussing.
I'm saying it doesnt matter what was first, cos we were talking about
what hes BEST known for, and we are now talking about FIRST known for.
> I'm
> of the opinion that most heads trace him to "Best Kept Secret"---and
> then they discover that he produces. I'm sure many are like that about
> LP. I believe the single(and his album)"Best Kept Secret" was out before
> "The Low End Theory", so his history predates what you assert here.
Well a hell of a lot more people will have heard Low End Theory than
Diamond's album, especially bearing in mind that Diamonds album had no
vinyl print run innitially other than the promos and that it really got
its shine after it had been out some time.
> <<Other than that a bunch of people will have known him from "I cant
> take no more", a track which I would assume most people thought he was
> just the DJ on.>>
>
> I'd dare say that this would be heads coming into his history later. I
> find this to be true with Twista.
"I cant take it no more" is like 88 or something right? Somebody?
Anyway....
He is VERY respected as a producer, but he can also flip a rap.
quest19...@webtv.net
<<I'm saying it doesnt matter what was first, cos we were talking about
what hes BEST known for, and we are now talking about FIRST known for.>>
I'm saying that it does matter. As for today, sure many younger heads
will say producing---assuming that they know him at all.
<<Well a hell of a lot more people will have heard Low End Theory than
Diamond's album, especially bearing in mind that Diamonds album had no
vinyl print run innitially other than the promos and that it really got
its shine after it had been out some time.>>
You seemed to have forgotten one medium---VIDEO. Thanks to "YO! MTV
Raps", I knew about Diamond D. as a rapper(as I'm sure tons of kids do)
long before discovering that he also produced.
<<"I cant take it no more" is like 88 or something right? Somebody?>>
If you say it was.
<<Anyway....
He is VERY respected as a producer, but he can also flip a rap.>>
You emphasize "very" here as though it isn't a known fact that he's
respected for both. This certainly won't be West's destiny.
quest19...@webtv.net
<<Maybe I should have asked you that question at first as well? "All
that deep" was in quotes because based on your remark about 50's
possible views on issues like global terrorism, I made an assumption
that by "all that deep", you were speaking of lyrics that were
politically/socially conscious. Which were themes that were not always
present in all of PE's and BDP's earliest work.>>
You could have...no problem. You were right with your assumption, but as
I said, it's not that an artist like 50 Cent doesn't have some sort of
intelligent opinion but based on his subject matter and interviews I've
seen of him, forgetaboutit. And from the time I heard of both P.E. and
B.D.P. knowledge was always first and foremost--Chuck and KRS-One went
on to collaborate with Kool Moe Dee for "Rise & Shine", one of the most
"deep" Hip Hop songs ever.
<<Now, what does "all the deep" mean to me? I personally don't think one
has to necessarily rhyme about socially conscious or political issues to
be considered "deep". In that respect, I think that a song like 50's
"21 Questions" is deep in the sense that it's introspective.>>
Really?! 50 Cent asking a young woman to "stick with him mentally" for
25 years AFTER he's committed a crime isn't deep and it borders on
insane. I roll with Apache("Gangsta B*tch") on that score--"she's gone
now/so I had to make my switch". Asking if she's "down to ride" on
enemies and all the self-defeating behavior typical in his rhymes...they
aren't introspective, but destructive.
<<To me "deep" means lyrics that express emotions or feelings. It's
also lyrics that are descriptive and paint a vivid mental image or tell
a story eloquently. If I can make any sort of personal connection w/
the lyrics in some respect, I think that they can be considered
"deep".>>
Cool. The stuff that an artist like 50 Cent says or even the "high life"
lyrics of ballin', MOST of the listeners of this stuff aren't anywhere
close to living that lifestyle. For many, that's just not realistic.
However, getting an understanding of history, culture, politics,
religion, etc. these never go out of style and actually bolster you more
as a human being. Lyrics that convey this message, I consider "deep".
<<If you're just going by the singles, I guess it's harder to see. When
I listen to their albums......imo, the topics aren't all that much
different. Talib does his fair shair of bragging and he also talks about
his fair shair of women. Mos Def too. They just don't do it on the
"gangsta" or "thuggish" tip that 50 does.>>
But that would be considered "Hip Hop" if an MC big-ups himself, right?
But is there a balance between fact and fiction? Akrobatik summed it up
nicely on the title track of his debut "Balance".
<<What a strange/interesting comparison.....in that spectrum that I was
talking about earlier, I'd actually put Baby Blak somewhere closer to 50
than to kweli.....mostly due to language but for other reasons as well.
If we're talking technical skills and nothing more, Baby Blak is
definitely the better MC....but I tend to pay more attention to the
total package and how much I enjoy it rather than individual pieces of
it. Being the best rapper doesn't automatically mean that I'm going to
like your album the best. Like I said in an earlier post....Bahamadia is
the better rapper but imo, Angie Martinez made the better album. I guess
I'll chalk that one up to personal tastes and personal experiences.
Nothing against him.....he's OK. I just like Kanye's album better.
Probably due in part to production and I think I probably just
identified more w/ it.>>
Agreed, one song does not a great or dope MC make--it's the total
package. I'd say having marketing tools in place in order to hype a new
artist(like West) doesn't make them a great or dope either. I think
Bahamadia is way better than Martinez, and agreed it comes down to
personal taste. But we always end up saying "no disrespect" to the
artist you didn't co-sign or whatever. I've felt like why should you
have to put a disclaimer on your feelings? They're yours, express them.
Being a "hater" is one thing that I absolutely have no fear of being
called. As you said, personal taste.
bse
quest19...@webtv.net wrote:
> <<Anyway....
> He is VERY respected as a producer, but he can also flip a rap.>>
>
> You emphasize "very" here as though it isn't a known fact that he's
> respected for both. This certainly won't be West's destiny.
You are a worry. All that turmoil inside you.
mochaspresso
wrote:
>
>Really?! 50 Cent asking a young woman to "stick with him mentally" for
>25 years AFTER he's committed a crime isn't deep and it borders on
>insane.
Maybe.....but I've known plenty of women who love and stick faithfully
by their men in jail. I've been fortunate and have never been in that
situation, but I can see how it happens and wouldn't necessarily be so
quick to call it "insane". I have an uncle in jail in Florida that I
send things to and visit when I'm down there. Should I turn my back
on him because he's incarcerated?
Maybe 50 meant one specific thing w/ that line......maybe he meant
more....but I heard it and thought of the bigger expanded picture of
it.
>I roll with Apache("Gangsta B*tch") on that score--"she's gone
>now/so I had to make my switch". Asking if she's "down to ride" on
>enemies and all the self-defeating behavior typical in his rhymes...they
>aren't introspective, but destructive.
>
Those are the only lines that you heard in the entire song? You didn't
hear the lines before and after that....
"If I went back to a hoopty from a Benz,
would you poof and disappear like some of my friends?
If I ain't rap 'cause I flipped burgers at Burger King
would you be ashamed to tell your friends you feelin' me?"
He's essentially asking her would she still love him and be with him
if he weren't successful.
> <<To me "deep" means lyrics that express emotions or feelings. It's
>also lyrics that are descriptive and paint a vivid mental image or tell
>a story eloquently. If I can make any sort of personal connection w/
>the lyrics in some respect, I think that they can be considered
>"deep".>>
>
>Cool. The stuff that an artist like 50 Cent says or even the "high life"
>lyrics of ballin', MOST of the listeners of this stuff aren't anywhere
>close to living that lifestyle. For many, that's just not realistic.
I don't think you necessarily have to live a lifestyle to be able to
understand or identify w/ a song.
>However, getting an understanding of history, culture, politics,
>religion, etc. these never go out of style and actually bolster you more
>as a human being. Lyrics that convey this message, I consider "deep".
>
Well, I don't listen to music to be a better human being. I listen
purely for enjoyment. And I don't subsribe to the notion that what
type of art you enjoy determines what kind of human being you are.
But going w/ your point of view, I think in a way, someone's tales of
street life is in itself an understanding of history, culture and
politics. I can listen to it and approach some of the things that he
talks about in the same manner in which I'd read a slave narrative or
a Native American narrative. You're hearing someone's story.
I'm not trying to imply that I believe wholeheartedly everything every
rapper says and take it for truth. That's not what this is about.
But I look at it in this manner.....being bulemic or anorexic is
self-destructive behavior. Abusing drugs or alcohol is also
self-destructive. Would you refuse to hear that person's story simply
because you think it's self-destructive?
I also don't think every rapper who talks about the more negative
aspects of life is necessarily glorifying them.
>
>Agreed, one song does not a great or dope MC make--it's the total
>package. I'd say having marketing tools in place in order to hype a new
>artist(like West) doesn't make them a great or dope either. I think
>Bahamadia is way better than Martinez, and agreed it comes down to
>personal taste. But we always end up saying "no disrespect" to the
>artist you didn't co-sign or whatever. I've felt like why should you
>have to put a disclaimer on your feelings? They're yours, express them.
>Being a "hater" is one thing that I absolutely have no fear of being
>called. As you said, personal taste.
No argument there. I just mention it so that people clearly
understand my position. Sometimes, people interpet me saying that I
didn't like MC so and so's album as me saying that I don't like
him/her or that I think he/she's not a good rapper.
A to the L
>> I'd rather listen to Kanye West than, say,
>Biz Markie.
oh no you fuckin' didn't...
grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
PEACH
A to the L
"I hope ya family got love for you soldier - cos one of them gon be your organ donor"
"Fuck the cup, pour it in my hand for a dime."
"I start what I finish, and I end what I start - look at my jeans they got starch."
A to the L
>And from the time I heard of both P.E. and
>B.D.P. knowledge was always first and foremost--Chuck and KRS-One went
>on to collaborate with Kool Moe Dee for "Rise & Shine", one of the most
>"deep" Hip Hop songs ever.
and also a horrible horrible track that sounds cut and pasted
together...
PE on the first album were much less socially concious than on later
albums... Yo Bumrush The Show is about um... bumrushing a club and
getting rowdy... You're Gonna Get Yours is Chuck big-upping his car...
etc etc...
in fact I'd argue that the only socially concious songs on there are
Megablast, Sophisticated Bitch and Rightstarter... most other shit is
"i'm so nice, my crew is def - don't mess with me etc etc"
BDP too - Criminal Minded was very much about letting people know that
BDP were from the Bronx where Hiphop started, and that KRS and Scott
LA Rock were fresh... anything else came AFTER this...
now yes on later albums both artists came with the concious stuff
first... but those first albums aren't a world away from most other
hiphop out at the time, or most hiphop at at ANY period in terms on
lyrics... "I'm good - you're not. Don't battle me. My crew is large
and we get honies and have fly rides." Even Chuck D says all this...
quest19...@webtv.net
<<You are a worry. All that turmoil inside you.>>
No sir. Life is good here, I think this is your best argument against
the points I've shown. And as such, you have no argument---it's just
your sorry assumption on how you think I am. You lose....
quest19...@webtv.net
<<and also a horrible horrible track that sounds cut and pasted
together.>>
Did you add the words to your conclusion here? That song was dope all
the way around. If production is your only barometer, no wonder you'd
say this.
<<PE on the first album were much less socially concious than on later
albums... Yo Bumrush The Show is about um... bumrushing a club and
getting rowdy... You're Gonna Get Yours is Chuck big-upping his car...
etc etc...>>
Cool. If you think of these two acts, you know from the gate who and
what they are about. I thought MCs did brag about themselves in songs.
You speak as if these two acts did have a balance...or better still, you
sound as if the high life is their signature for their content. Overall,
you know what these MCs are about, let's not be facetious.
<<in fact I'd argue that the only socially concious songs on there are
Megablast, Sophisticated Bitch and Rightstarter... most other shit is
"i'm so nice, my crew is def - don't mess with me etc etc"
BDP too - Criminal Minded was very much about letting people know that
BDP were from the Bronx where Hiphop started, and that KRS and Scott LA
Rock were fresh... anything else came AFTER this.>>
Agreed. And I my response to that is, "see above". We all know the
history as to why BDP came out dissing crews. And actually, that's in
the spirit of the battle. Unlike today, it was more friendly competition
then and you know it.
<<now yes on later albums both artists came with the concious stuff
first... but those first albums aren't a world away from most other
hiphop out at the time, or most hiphop at at ANY period in terms on
lyrics... "I'm good - you're not. Don't battle me. My crew is large and
we get honies and have fly rides." Even Chuck D says all this.>>
Right and again, you know overall what these MCs are about. All of that
boasting is right in line with Hip Hop, and it was fun to boot. Your
speaking as if this was a secret or something.
bse
quest19...@webtv.net wrote:
Yup. You called it Quest. That's how it happened.
You are totally sane and we don't worry about you at all.
quest19...@webtv.net
<<Maybe.....but I've known plenty of women who love and stick faithfully
by their men in jail. I've been fortunate and have never been in that
situation, but I can see how it happens and wouldn't necessarily be so
quick to call it "insane". I have an uncle in jail in Florida that I
send things to and visit when I'm down there. Should I turn my back on
him because he's incarcerated?>>
This is where disclaimers and things are bad. Depending SOLELY on the
situation, if someone murders another human being in cold blood over
drug turf(property that belongs to the public), that person(family
member or not) needs to turned on because they turned on society. If
someone has been framed or the like, clearly, that's a different
scenario and any support is due. A free-incarcerated scenario serves no
purpose for real...how? My thing has always been, "what did you DO to
put yourself in a compromised position".
<<Maybe 50 meant one specific thing w/ that line......maybe he meant
more....but I heard it and thought of the bigger expanded picture of
it.>>
You can only go on what he said. If he did what he did, how is his woman
going to respond to the repercussions of his actions. We can conjecture,
but....
<<Those are the only lines that you heard in the entire song? You didn't
hear the lines before and after that....
"If I went back to a hoopty from a Benz, would you poof and disappear
like some of my friends?>>
Again mocha, disclaimers. All of us have heard the song ad nauseum.
Isn't love unconditional or contingent on what I'm driving or my bank
account? To ask this question, 50 Cent wonders if I lost the "material",
how is she going to treat him now.
<<If I ain't rap 'cause I flipped burgers at Burger King would you be
ashamed to tell your friends you feelin' me?"
He's essentially asking her would she still love him and be with him if
he weren't successful.>>
Again, is love based on love or is it contingent on something else? And
if you love someone, you stand up for them regardless what they do so
long as it's productive.
<<I don't think you necessarily have to live a lifestyle to be able to
understand or identify w/ a song.>>
Agreed, but that's also contentious. Kids I come in contact with here in
the Illadelph say that they "relate" to the thug/ballin'/gangsta
aesthetic.
<<Well, I don't listen to music to be a better human being. I listen
purely for enjoyment. And I don't subsribe to the notion that what type
of art you enjoy determines what kind of human being you are.>>
It's not designed for that as we know, and we all know it's
entertainment. But if art imitates life, what are we to make of artists
who say their lyrics "reflect the streets?". Agreed, the type of human
being you become is based on individual experiences and upbring. If
anything the reverse is true, who you are may slant you toward a certain
art or genre.
<<But going w/ your point of view, I think in a way, someone's tales of
street life is in itself an understanding of history, culture and
politics. I can listen to it and approach some of the things that he
talks about in the same manner in which I'd read a slave narrative or a
Native American narrative. You're hearing someone's story.>>
Street tales typically are grim aren't they? As is street life
generally. The history, politics, and culture of street life is an
ongoing cycle, as Ice-T puts it, of "dead friends and time in jail". On
the other hand, slave/Native American narrative typically give hope(and
inspiration) to those coming up who didn't live under the yoke of
oppression/exploitation, right? This, by definition, is a positive.
<<I'm not trying to imply that I believe wholeheartedly everything every
rapper says and take it for truth. That's not what this is about. But I
look at it in this manner.....being bulemic or anorexic is
self-destructive behavior. Abusing drugs or alcohol is also
self-destructive. Would you refuse to hear that person's story simply
because you think it's self-destructive?>>
Yes ma'am and I took that into my own understanding. But to take 50 Cent
and counter that with KRS-One, most heads know what the content will
contain. You can hear the stories and that's cool, but you usually
know(or are fairly sure) what's the deal. If they don't come out of a
"bulemic", "anoxeric", "alcoholic", or "gangsta" condition--we all know
the ends those stories.
<I also don't think every rapper who talks about the more negative
aspects of life is necessarily glorifying them.>>
If not, and that's the crux of who they are as MCs---what are they doing
then? If that's the content for 12 of the 16 tracks, what are we to come
away with. You're entertained, but what's your overall take of them as
artists?
<<No argument there. I just mention it so that people clearly understand
my position. Sometimes, people interpet me saying that I didn't like MC
so and so's album as me saying that I don't like him/her or that I think
he/she's not a good rapper.>>
As I was saying earlier, you feel how you feel for a myriad of reasons.
Period, end of story. Folks want "quantification" and "clarification"
for everything lest your view "get taken out of context". This is why
when I bang Wack-A-Fella, I'm letting you know where I stand and how I
feel about them as artists. I worry not what someone else thinks of my
view, I defend it(and not for a person's approval) and keep it moving.
Culturally speaking, people have gotten so shook to really speak how
they really feel because of what the consensus runs with or "negative
feedback" we get for our view. An artist like Jigga-boo can sell
diamond, to me, he's garbage as a rapper, game over and I ain't scared
to say it to whomever.
quest19...@webtv.net
<<Yup. You called it Quest. That's how it happened.>>
No sir, the way it happened is your obsessive groping for some
intellectual victory and you're not quite there yet. You do get a "star"
for your numerous attempts.
<<You are totally sane and we don't worry about you at all.>>
Keeping sanity in an insane world or having to cut down an insane
respondent or two is a job onto itself..trust. But speak for yourself,
the "we" thing is not a good look for you. And while you "don't worry",
you clearly "respond" enough---which is, if nothing else, concern.
Thanks, I think....
mochaspresso
wrote:
>
>This is where disclaimers and things are bad. Depending SOLELY on the
>situation, if someone murders another human being in cold blood over
>drug turf(property that belongs to the public), that person(family
>member or not) needs to turned on because they turned on society. If
>someone has been framed or the like, clearly, that's a different
>scenario and any support is due. A free-incarcerated scenario serves no
>purpose for real...how? My thing has always been, "what did you DO to
>put yourself in a compromised position".
>
I don't think it's my place to question why a mother continues to love
her incarcerated son or why a wife / girlfriend stands by her man in
jail or why dudes stay down w/ their friends who are locked up even
though they know that person is guilty. In fact, I don't need to
question it. It's a kind of love that even though I've never had to
experience in quite that manner.......I think I can understand it.
Therefore, hearing that type of thing mentioned in a song doesn't give
me pause. It's an emotional situation that actually does exist in our
world and I think it's good that someone is addressing it through
their lyrics. Whether someone agrees or disagrees w/ it is
irrelevent. There shouldn't be anything wrong w/ writing about it.
><<Maybe 50 meant one specific thing w/ that line......maybe he meant
>more....but I heard it and thought of the bigger expanded picture of
>it.>>
>
>You can only go on what he said. If he did what he did, how is his woman
>going to respond to the repercussions of his actions. We can conjecture,
>but....
>
If we were discussing literature, you'd be getting into what's
commonly referred to as author's point of view. The answer to the
question that your posing is in "HER" song.....not 50's. Wherther
those answers make sense to you or not is "YOUR" song.....not 50's.
The song is called "21 Questions".....not "21 Questions and her
answers too and why she answered the way she did and do her answers
make sense to me?".
>
><<I don't think you necessarily have to live a lifestyle to be able to
>understand or identify w/ a song.>>
>
>Agreed, but that's also contentious. Kids I come in contact with here in
>the Illadelph say that they "relate" to the thug/ballin'/gangsta
>aesthetic.
>
Did you ask them why they relate to it? If you did, what was their
response? I think that's an important question that needs to be
answered.
Everybody has their own reasons, but there really are some people who
may be relating because they are in that type of environment. Not
solely because they're seeing it on TV or hearing someone like 50 cent
rap about it.
>
>Street tales typically are grim aren't they? As is street life
>generally. The history, politics, and culture of street life is an
>ongoing cycle, as Ice-T puts it, of "dead friends and time in jail". On
>the other hand, slave/Native American narrative typically give hope(and
>inspiration) to those coming up who didn't live under the yoke of
>oppression/exploitation, right? This, by definition, is a positive.
>
Yes.....but is it an absolute requirement that everything has to be
presented in a positive light? I don't think so.
It also depends on perspective. To bring this discussion back to the
original topic......Kanye has a song on his album called "We Don't
Care". In it's own way it's a song of hope and inspiration. But it's
got a bit of a twist to it and it's addressed to people in society
that many choose to ignore, turn their back on, turn a blind eye to
and often write off. It's basically another "Keep Your Head
Up".....and you really need to listen to the entire song
(verses....not just the chorus) to get the full impact of what he's
trying to say.
This isn't necessarily the best verse in the song, but it's the one
that caught my ear......
"You know the kids gonna act a fool
When you stop the programs for after school
And they DCFS them some of them dyslexic
They favorite 50 Cent song's 12 Questions
We scream rock, blow, weed, park...see now we smart
We aint retards the way teachers thought
Hold up hold fast we make mo'cash
Now tell my momma i belong in the slow class
It's bad enough we on welfare
You trying to put me on the school bus with the space for the wheel
chair
I'm trying to get the car with the chromy wheels here
You tryin to cut our lights like we dont live here
Look at what's handed us our father's abandoned us
When we get the hammers gone and call the ambulance
Sometimes i feel no one in this world understands us
But we dont care what people say"
.....whether you agree or disagree w/ the content or sentiment.....I
can wholeheartedly vouch for the fact that this verse is 100% real for
some young people and I think there is nothing wrong w/ a rapper
choosing to talk about it. I also don't think that expressing a
reality is automatically "glorification".
You also need to listen to the skit before it and the skit after to
realize that while some parts of it are "real", the song was also
intended to be a bit of a joke.
>
>Yes ma'am and I took that into my own understanding. But to take 50 Cent
>and counter that with KRS-One, most heads know what the content will
>contain.
Maybe that's so for most heads. But me....I don't presume to know
anything until I've listened to it.
>You can hear the stories and that's cool, but you usually
>know(or are fairly sure) what's the deal. If they don't come out of a
>"bulemic", "anoxeric", "alcoholic", or "gangsta" condition--we all know
>the ends those stories.
><I also don't think every rapper who talks about the more negative
>aspects of life is necessarily glorifying them.>>
>
>If not, and that's the crux of who they are as MCs---what are they doing
>then? If that's the content for 12 of the 16 tracks, what are we to come
>away with. You're entertained, but what's your overall take of them as
>artists?
>
I think you need to listen to what they are saying and also make an
effort to understand the context of what they are saying. I think
that's why hip-hop has always been so misunderstood. Folks don't
always take the time to listen. They'll hear a line or a hook and
overlook everything else in the song.....thus, missing the whole point
entirely.
>
>As I was saying earlier, you feel how you feel for a myriad of reasons.
>Period, end of story. Folks want "quantification" and "clarification"
>for everything lest your view "get taken out of context". This is why
>when I bang Wack-A-Fella, I'm letting you know where I stand and how I
>feel about them as artists.
That's fine....but aren't we talking about 50 cent and Kanye West
right now?
>I worry not what someone else thinks of my
>view, I defend it(and not for a person's approval) and keep it moving.
>Culturally speaking, people have gotten so shook to really speak how
>they really feel because of what the consensus runs with or "negative
>feedback" we get for our view. An artist like Jigga-boo can sell
>diamond, to me, he's garbage as a rapper, game over and I ain't scared
>to say it to whomever.
That's all fine.....but aren't we talking about 50 cent and Kanye West
right now?
bse
>
> Keeping sanity in an insane world or having to cut down an insane
> respondent or two is a job onto itself..trust. But speak for yourself,
> the "we" thing is not a good look for you. And while you "don't worry",
> you clearly "respond" enough---which is, if nothing else, concern.
> Thanks, I think....
You are right of course, I am concerned. I also know that I really
shouldn't respond. "We" is not really playing fair but everyone else
other than Nes and Mocha seem to have given up on you.
quest19...@webtv.net
<<You are right of course, I am concerned. I also know that I really
shouldn't respond. "We" is not really playing fair but everyone else
other than Nes and Mocha seem to have given up on you.>>
Well starting now, you can stop. The "we" is typical from hangers-on
like yourself. And I'll still put my take out there regardless whether
"YOU" respond or not, actually that way, that's less clutter of "our"
board if limit your mumbo-jumbo.
TJ Xenos
>You seemed to have forgotten one medium---VIDEO. Thanks to "YO! MTV
>Raps", I knew about Diamond D. as a rapper(as I'm sure tons of kids do)
>long before discovering that he also produced.
how much of this is due to the less prominent producers role in the 80s/early
90s it seems ilek it wasnt til the mid-90s heads started jocking beatsmiths so
hard, i mean all this "who produced this" for every new track, etc
T.J. Xenos
"English? Who needs that? I'm never going to England. Let's go smoke." -
Homer Simpson
"great music is better than average sex" - Merle Haggard
TJ Xenos
>to Kweli's last jawn, he's just a Brooklyn MC who's talks about more
>than guns and blunts and hos. But he still talks about them.
so hes real basically? i liked the 2nd kweli more then blackstar or RE
TJ Xenos
>This is where disclaimers and things are bad. Depending SOLELY on the
>situation, if someone murders another human being in cold blood over
>drug turf(property that belongs to the public), that person(family
>member or not) needs to turned on because they turned on society.
to get into something here. All the erth beongs to the peope so technically
any goverment that institutionalizes property ownership of the earth has turned
their back on civiiliztion and should be turned on as should those who choose
to commit violence at the behest of the extortionist govt/landowners. In other
words, fuck the cops, fuck the army, fuck the government. this is my world and
you cant take it from me, assholes.
TJ Xenos
>It also depends on perspective. To bring this discussion back to the
>original topic......Kanye has a song on his album called "We Don't
>Care". In it's own way it's a song of hope and inspiration. But it's
>got a bit of a twist to it and it's addressed to people in society
>that many choose to ignore, turn their back on, turn a blind eye to
>and often write off. It's basically another "Keep Your Head
>Up".....and you really need to listen to the entire song
>(verses....not just the chorus) to get the full impact of what he's
>trying to say.
best song on the album. once i heard this i nknew kanye was the way to go
bse
> bse says:
> <<You are right of course, I am concerned. I also know that I really
> shouldn't respond. "We" is not really playing fair but everyone else
> other than Nes and Mocha seem to have given up on you.>>
>
> Well starting now, you can stop.
Thanks.
> The "we" is typical from hangers-on
> like yourself.
So if I'm a hanger-on and Nes is too, then who are we hanging on to
since were the only ones gunning you?
> And I'll still put my take out there regardless whether
> "YOU" respond or not,
Doubtless, you seem to not care how little people think of you.
Impressive.
>actually that way, that's less clutter of "our"
> board if limit your mumbo-jumbo.
Very good.
quest19...@webtv.net
<<Thanks>>
No problem.
<<So if I'm a hanger-on and Nes is too, then who are we hanging on to
since were the only ones gunning you?>>
No sir, there is difference between the dick-riding tactics of
Nestajones and your attempt to to be the collective's mouthpiece. I know
it's hard, but keep your ignorance to a mininum. And ignorance in
dialogue being you guys signature, I think, intellectually speaking, you
all have turned the guns on yourself.
<<Doubtless, you seem to not care how little people think of you.
Impressive.>>
Try not to dumb-down yourself, then again, I have to respect your honest
self-analysis. It's really not that hard to take you serious---this line
proves that YOU don't take yourself serious. My point reinforced by you,
thanks.
<<Very good.>>
I know and you lose....
bse
quest19...@webtv.net wrote:
!
Your writing is pure poetry.
It really is. I hope everyone is reading this and drinking in the
majesty of your delusion.
quest19...@webtv.net
<<Your writing is pure poetry.
It really is. I hope everyone is reading this and drinking in the
majesty of your delusion.>>
No, I wouldn't say poetry. I just use what many people fail or are too
incompetent to use---common sense. The delusion of grandeur are yours.
Steve S. Jackson
Y'all are crazy. I'm glad I'm just looking at this thread. Oh, and
really, Diamond is much better known as a producer. Try and name 10
tracks he rhymed on (outside his own album) versus 10 tracks he
produced. Trust you'll be able to name the produced tracks quicker
even if you didn't realize Diamond produced them. Kinda like Lord
Finesse and DITC stuff (didn't Diamond do alot of DITC stuff also?
are they both part of DITC... can't remember). I remember after
hearing Best Kept Secret someone told me he was a known producer. And
I was like... for what? THen they started running down the list and I
was like ooooooh. Go figure. There was someone else I could argue
was better known for producing then MCing but I can't remember who
y'all were talking about.
Anyway, I'm feeling Kanye's album (which is how the thread started,
right?) AND... I will argue that your rhyme skills do not have to be
supreme to have a good album. I'm sure we can name dozens of MCs who
have less than spectacular rhymes but good albums. The Fugees anyone?
No one in that crew had spectacular rhymes (no, not even Lauryn) but
the album was excellent.