Re: A good way to kick off your week
theothr1
"The Lord of Eltingville" wrote ...
: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQgJULYwxsA
-- - -
All hail the god of blues!
Neil X.
>
> All hail the god of blues!
B.B. King and Muddy Waters are scratching their heads over this
post........
Peace,
Neil X.
volkfolk
"Neil X." <nei...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1172509993....@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
Don't be dissin' the Hook. He's definitely got a spot in the Pantheon.
Scot
Neil X.
>
> Don't be dissin' the Hook. He's definitely got a spot in the Pantheon.
Well, maybe if he buys a ticket........
Nah, I like JLH just fine. But any talk of the God of the blues has
got to include the King. And the Waters, too. Hooker was a lot
better in his 70s and 80s than Muddy was, and King is, but in their
prime, it was a different story. Folks tend to forget just how damn
good Muddy and B.B. once were.
Peace,
Neil X.
Joker
Are you out of your mind?!?! We agree on a lot of stuff Neil, but BB
"King" aint the the King of anything. He stands head and shoulders
*below* both Albert King and Freddie King, as far as blues go. Yea, he
can croon a tune, but aside from some signature licks, he can't play
much guitar, let alone carry water for folks like Albert, Freddie,
Muddy. And he aint got a shadow of the soul that John Lee had. Don't
even get me started on howlin' Wolf over BB King.
BB is that clean smooth pop blues that's sold to keep the "good folks"
from being frightened of the intense power of the blues...the raw,
nasty power of the blues. If BB was ever "damn good", it must have
been before he got packaged and sold to mainstream America as "easy
listening blues."
Don't even try to argue this, just flame away. I will NOT be swayed
here...
Larry
Joker
Lfh
> "King" aint the the King of anything. He stands head and shoulders
> *below* both Albert King and Freddie King, as far as blues go. Yea, he
> can croon a tune, but aside from some signature licks, he can't play
> much guitar, let alone carry water for folks like Albert, Freddie,
> Muddy. And he aint got a shadow of the soul that John Lee had. Don't
> even get me started on howlin' Wolf over BB King.
> BB is that clean smooth pop blues that's sold to keep the "good folks"
> from being frightened of the intense power of the blues...the raw,
> nasty power of the blues. If BB was ever "damn good", it must have
> been before he got packaged and sold to mainstream America as "easy
> listening blues."
Larry, while I appreciate your entusiasm for the greats, there ain't
no need to chop off the head of BB in order to make them appear tall.
First off, your take on his playing is not only misguided, but what
you say about "aside from some signature licks, he can't play much
guitar" applies equally or moreso to Albert and certainly Muddy and
John Lee. But all of those guys had that signature aspect to their
playing that was unique to them. Hell, John Lee said it best. "I ain't
only got but one lick, but it's mine." And how true that was.
Howlin' Wolf couldn't play all that much at all, but oh, my god, what
a blues voice. Muddy also didn't have a wide range of stuff, but lord,
he had his own style and when he let loose on that slide, it cut right
through everything and penetrated as deep as ya could bear. And, like
Wolf, he had just an amazing voice.
Look, BB did turn into a shell of himself over the last few decades,
but he could fucking wail back in the 50-70's. His style cannot be
compared to Waters or Wolf or Hooker, cause he was uptown while they
were downhome, and they are just different schools entirely. BB's
roots are more T-Bone Walker than the delta, and not only could he
more than croon, but he had soul to spare, but it wasn't gutbucket, it
was uptown.
Fred
Bobby McGee
> Don't be dissin' the Hook. He's definitely got a spot in the Pantheon.
>
> Scot
Exactly!
theothr1
"Joker" wrote
:
- - -
Amen brother Larry!
BB does represent that pop side of blues, which is okay...
but getting back to that raw, nasty power!
Neil X.
>
> Look, BB did turn into a shell of himself over the last few decades,
> but he could fucking wail back in the 50-70's.
B.B. has been in decline for nearly my entire lifetime. He's been a
poppy shadow of what he once was for a good three decades now. He's
been mediocre for so long, I think a lot of folks simply don't
remember what he once was. That's something to give Hooker a lot of
credit for--he was amazing up until the day he died.
> His style cannot be compared to Waters or Wolf or Hooker,
> cause he was uptown while they were downhome, and they
> are just different schools entirely.
I'm an urban boy, I came of age in Chicago sitting in Theresa's on
46th and Indiana, and up the street at the Checkerboard on 43rd before
it moved and got all yuppie, and over in Domino's on Cermack Street,
before they buldozed it for a parking lot. These clubs were in the
most gawdaful, gang infested, bombed out neighborhoods that one could
imagine. They make East LA look like paradise in comparison. But the
blues coming out of these bars was something special, you could see
Junior Wells, Buddy Guy, other local Chicago lumiaries just wailing in
front of audiences that sometimes numbered about a dozen. And all of
them, audience and musicians, knew that B.B. was the King.
It is indeed a stylistic thing. I love Howlin' Wolf, JLH, Muddy
Albert King, etc. but the blues of the delta isn't the blues of the
city. It's a different thing, and I'll always prefer the blues I grew
up with in my hometown over the blues of far off rural swamps........
Peace,
Neil X.
Lfh
<tthomas@[REMOVE_TO_REPLY]ogre.net> wrote:
> > Listen to Riding With The King (him with Clapton) and get back to me.
> > It's great even though some might consider it fluff.
>
> Aural Sominex...
Don't know about that one, but where would you place Live at Cook
County Prison on the sleep o' meter, Ted?
Fred
Lfh
> > Fred wrote:
>
> > Look, BB did turn into a shell of himself over the last few decades,
> > but he could fucking wail back in the 50-70's.
>
> B.B. has been in decline for nearly my entire lifetime. He's been a
> poppy shadow of what he once was for a good three decades now. He's
> been mediocre for so long, I think a lot of folks simply don't
> remember what he once was. That's something to give Hooker a lot of
> credit for--he was amazing up until the day he died.
I saw both of them in the 70's, so I can't speak to Hook's holding up.
He sure was awesome when I saw him, though. One of my most cherished
memories is him not only playing a song for me, but telling the
audience he was doing so. Thrilled my little teenaged heart no end.
I went up to him at a set break as he was just sitting by himself over
on the side of the little room he was playing outside Philly. I had a
copy of The Return of the King in my back pocket, so I thought it
would be cool to have the king of boogie sign it. He did, and while
doing so, I asked him if he would play TB Sheets, a nice little tune
about dying in a TB ward. He said, no, he couldn't cause it was just
too sad, so I just thanked him and let him chill.
At the start of the second set, he starts talking to the audience
about how this nice young man asked him to do a song, but he couldn't
because it was just too sad. But he had thought about it, and decided
that he was going to play it for him.
I damn near fainted.
> > His style cannot be compared to Waters or Wolf or Hooker,
> > cause he was uptown while they were downhome, and they
> > are just different schools entirely.
>
> I'm an urban boy, I came of age in Chicago sitting in Theresa's on
> 46th and Indiana, and up the street at the Checkerboard on 43rd before
> it moved and got all yuppie, and over in Domino's on Cermack Street,
> before they buldozed it for a parking lot. These clubs were in the
> most gawdaful, gang infested, bombed out neighborhoods that one could
> imagine. They make East LA look like paradise in comparison. But the
> blues coming out of these bars was something special, you could see
> Junior Wells, Buddy Guy, other local Chicago lumiaries just wailing in
> front of audiences that sometimes numbered about a dozen. And all of
> them, audience and musicians, knew that B.B. was the King.
Ah, now that's some spice there, Neil. I drool at the sets you must
have seen. I saw Buddy and Junior in Philly and it was hellacious. Did
you ever see Jimmy Dawkins?
I've saw lots of blues shows back in the day, legends and unknowns
alike, and whatever the venue, it was always 95% percent white at the
least. One time, however, I went to a show in Philly with BB "way on
the outskirts of town" (Buddy Guy reference, for those in the don't
know), and it was at least 5,000 folks in an ampitheater. And me, my
friend, and his tall blond girlfriend were the only white people
there. The black lady at the entrance told my friend's girlfriend,
"honey, when this show is over, you hold on tight to your purse, and
you go straight to your car as fast as you can."
Smooth pop blues, my ass. BB proceeded to burn that place *down.*
> It is indeed a stylistic thing. I love Howlin' Wolf, JLH, Muddy
> Albert King, etc. but the blues of the delta isn't the blues of the
> city. It's a different thing, and I'll always prefer the blues I grew
> up with in my hometown over the blues of far off rural swamps........
Well, Chicago is the nexus of both, so you have both schools coming
together. Muddy deserves all the credit in the world for melding the
two, and he is as Chicago as it gets, though his roots are on the
delta. Same with Wolf. But I agree with ya that it's all about that
urban edge.
Fred
Neil X.
>
> Did you ever see Jimmy Dawkins?
No, I think he lived in Europe during most of the 80s, Denmark or
somewhere like that. I recollect it being a big deal once when he
came to town, but we didn't see it, probably cost too much.
> Well, Chicago is the nexus of both, so you have both schools coming
> together. Muddy deserves all the credit in the world for melding the
> two, and he is as Chicago as it gets, though his roots are on the
> delta. Same with Wolf. But I agree with ya that it's all about that
> urban edge.
An old college buddy recently sent me some CDs of a show we saw that
Muddy did at the Checkerboard circa 1982. I gotta go find that now.
Yeah, no doubt, everyone loved Muddy in Chicago. It was different
seeing him from our usual diet of Buddy, Junior (and the occasional
appearance of BB) though, his playing was often sort of calming,
whereas the other guys created tension in the room when they played.
I don't know, that description is not quite right, but it's the best I
can do.
The old 'Board was an amazing place--there was a continuous poker game
going on there that had not ended before I graduated from the U of
Chicago and left town. Oh, it stopped when the Board closed sometime
between 4 and 6 AM, but it started up again right at opening the next
afternoon. I don't much like to gamble, but if you joined the game,
you could be sitting opposite Buddy, Muddy or Junior, or even once
Eric Clapton. You let them win all your money (well, you lost all
your money, let's just put it that way), then usually they would buy
you Old Styles for the rest of the night. They cost 50 cents a
bottle.
To an odd extent, us whitebread UofC students fit in very well with
the poor urban blacks that surrounded us, as we never had any money
either. The big difference was, of course, that we had certainty that
we eventually would have money, and they had certainty that they
wouldn't. But no one seemed to hold that against us. When any of us
did have some bucks, we would spend it lavishly on everyone, and so
did the regulars who were black. One of my friends, Rockin' Tom
Heimdahl, is an amazing keyboard player, and he actually was made a
member of Junior Wells' band for a few years in the mid 80s. He ended
up with the gig by playing at Open Mike Night at Theresa's, I think
that might have been every Tuesday, can't remember now. That was big
fun, having a friend in the house band at Theresa's. It neant never
having to pay the $2 cover, which was a big deal for us then.
Peace,
Neil X.
Joker
If BB King ever burned anything down, I'd love to hear it. Hip me to
something that smokes anywhere near as hot as Albert King or even
Freddie King. Those guy could flat out play. And no one would ever
call Albert a "crooner", which is entirely appropriate to BB in the
last few decades, at least.
Now, I spent some time in Chicago, not Hyde Park, but furthur on down
south near the US Steel plant where I worked. (Sadly, it was too late
in the game for me to hear Paul Butterfield at some little joint which
would have been alright with me.) Once or twice I made it over to
Theresas' but I don't remember the other place Neil mentioned. Mr.
Morganfield and Wolf are indeed the nexus for delta blues melding with
northern urban blues, and that's exactly where the edge got edgy, hot,
and nasty. That edge is what BB has lacked for years. And that edge is
exactly what Albert King, John Lee, Willie Dixon, and cats like that
never lost. To the day they died, especially Albert King and Howlin'
Wolf both had that griity, soulful edge.
Freddie King, to me, represents another melding of country blues with
the urban edge, albeit from a wholly different region. But again, he
never lost his grit and soul, as has, imho, BB King. Maybe these other
guys all died too young, but they are all far more interesting to me
than anything that I've ever heard from BB King. It's like Robert
Cray. Okay, he's talented, but I don't think of what he does as blues
so much as a pop version of something like the blues. It's all a
little bit too pretty. But, I've never seen Cray live, so I could be
wrong there. But the stuff of his that get radio play is so...plain.
SRV's introduction of Albert King in the youtube clip I posted above
is right on; he knows how much respect that man deserved!
So, where's this smoking BB stuff to be found?
Larry
Joker
<tthomas@[REMOVE_TO_REPLY]ogre.net> wrote:
> wouldn't register too high (that being a good thing). IIRC, it was
> recorded sometime around '69/'70 and his playing still had some stink on
> it (again, another good thing).
>
> I've got a few of BB's mid 60s shows that are excellent. As I mentioned
> in an earlier post, he used to be able to kick it with the best of them.
Oddly enough, I bought a copy of Live At Cook County Jail about two
years ago while on this same topic with another friend, i.e., looking
for some good BB King. I played it once and put it away. But I can't
remember why I never dug deeper into it. I'll have to pull it out and
give it a listen again.
I'm not saying BB King never did anything good, it's more that I've
just been deeply disapointed with everything he's played (that I've
heard) in the last twenty-five years or so.
Before I was even old enough to understand what the blues was, I saw
Albert King at the Fillmore, co-billed with Jimi Hendrix in 1967. I
was 15 years old, and came to see Jimi. And Hendrix did not
disappoint. But I think me and my buddies talked more about Albert
King on the ride home than we did about Hendrix. As they say, he came
to play and he played his ass off that night!
Larry
Neil X.
>
> So, where's this smoking BB stuff to be found?
These old B.B. LPs are special (gotta confess, I don't own much blues
on CD):
Mr. Blues 1962 (ABC 456)
My Kind of Blues 1956 (Crown 5188)
The Jungle 1956 (Kent 5061)
Anthology of the Blues: B.B. King 1949-1958 (KST 9011)
Confessin' the Blues 1966 (ABC 528)
Blues is King 1966 (BL6001)
I don't know if every old BB album has been digitized. But here's a
few links to amazon.com listings for CD remasters of the above:
http://urlcut.com/1ehye
http://urlcut.com/1ehyf
http://urlcut.com/1ehyg
http://urlcut.com/1ehyh
Peace,
Neil X.
Lfh
> If BB King ever burned anything down, I'd love to hear it. Hip me to
> something that smokes anywhere near as hot as Albert King or even
> Freddie King. Those guy could flat out play. And no one would ever
> call Albert a "crooner", which is entirely appropriate to BB in the
> last few decades, at least.
Well, it's interesting here, Larry, the way you say "or even Freddie,"
because I think of the three Kings, Freddie was easily the best flat-
out player, so we're probably going to remain out of accord on this.
Still, it's great to have someone who's got a passion for blues like
you obviously do weigh in.
As for the crooner, no Albert wasn't. But BB wasn't solely a crooner,
either. The man could also shout. When I think of crooner's the
obvious example for me is T-Bone, who was on record as not liking the
shouters. Me, I'm a shouter kind of guy. My favorite voices are Wolf,
Muddy, Buddy, and Stevie.
I'd say that if Cook County Jail, specifically Worry, Worry, Worry,
How Blue Can You Get, and Sweet Sixteen don't work for you, nothing
will. But it's a whole different animal than what Albert was doing.
Uptown is uptown, and that is that. And BB is the undisputed master of
it. When I said he burned the house down when I saw him, I mean he had
that fucking place in the palm of his hand and those folks was
testifyin' aggresively. He had the whole place rockin' and his singing
and playing were spot on.
> Mr. Morganfield and Wolf are indeed the nexus for delta blues melding with
> northern urban blues, and that's exactly where the edge got edgy, hot,
> and nasty. That edge is what BB has lacked for years. And that edge is
> exactly what Albert King, John Lee, Willie Dixon, and cats like that
> never lost. To the day they died, especially Albert King and Howlin'
> Wolf both had that griity, soulful edge.
YRYK.
> Freddie King, to me, represents another melding of country blues with
> the urban edge, albeit from a wholly different region.
Hey, god bless Texas when it comes to the blues, sir. After Chicago,
it's the most important region for electric blues. Freddie, Gatemouth,
Lightnin', not to mention Johhny Winter and Stevie Ray.
> But again, he
> never lost his grit and soul, as has, imho, BB King. Maybe these other
> guys all died too young, but they are all far more interesting to me
> than anything that I've ever heard from BB King.
I don't want to get painted into a corner as a BB advocate, because he
isn't on my list of top faves, though I don't think he was always the
shell he is now. I like all the guys you mention better than BB, but
it's a mileage thing. At the top of his game, he did his thing easily
as well as they did theirs, and his influence is as pervasive or
moreso than theirs.
> It's like Robert Cray. Okay, he's talented, but I don't think of what he does as blues
> so much as a pop version of something like the blues. It's all a
> little bit too pretty. But, I've never seen Cray live, so I could be
> wrong there. But the stuff of his that get radio play is so...plain.
Well, everything you say about Cray is right on target. I can't stand
his weak shit, and I've always called him the "whitest" bluesman out
there. And live ain't much better than on record. But BB was in a
whole 'nother league than Cray.
> SRV's introduction of Albert King in the youtube clip I posted above
> is right on; he knows how much respect that man deserved!
SRV absolutely adored Albert, and with good reason. Albert's influence
on Stevie's playing is fundamental. One of the finest things on the
long list of fine things about Stevie is that he had an unabashed
worship of the giants that came before him. Just pure unadulterated
love and respect for them. (And they loved him right back.) He was
just the sweetest soul and reveled in his roots.
Of course, put him toe to toe with his heroes and he could burn them
alive, but he did so with respect. There's that story of BB having to
tell him to not hold back when they were playing together, cause he
didn't want to show him up. "Go on and do your thing, son. It's ok." I
love that. Man, on that Blues at Sunrise cd, he plays with Albert
Collins and Albert King on different cuts and he just scorches 'em
both.
Oh, btw. When asked what was the best blues album of all-time, Stevie
was adamant: BB King, Live at the Regal. Go figure, huh?
Fred
Lfh
> Man, on that Blues at Sunrise cd, he plays with Albert
> Collins and Albert King on different cuts and he just scorches 'em
> both.
Oops. I meant Johnny Copeland (another Texas great), not Albert
Collins.
Fred
Joker
Yep, currently my favorite blues album. And I guess I don't really
mean to dismiss all of BB Kings' work. It just that he has coasted on
his early stuff for a long time and a lot of his fans seem to "love
the blues" based on his later work.
And, in reference to your post above, I didn't mean to sound like I
would ever slight Freddie King. He was simply amazing as a player. To
the end.
Now, lets talk about getting Paul Butterfield into the RRHOF...
Larry
Lfh
> > > Man, on that Blues at Sunrise cd, he plays with Albert
> > > Collins and Albert King on different cuts and he just scorches 'em
> > > both.
> Yep, currently my favorite blues album.
Oh, it is a monster, is it not? I also have a special spot for Buddy
Guy's Stone Crazy.
> And, in reference to your post above, I didn't mean to sound like I
> would ever slight Freddie King. He was simply amazing as a player. To
> the end.
Yup. He just ripped it. Had one of my favorite tones, too.
Fred
Lfh
> > And, in reference to your post above, I didn't mean to sound like I
> > would ever slight Freddie King. He was simply amazing as a player. To
> > the end.
>
> Yup. He just ripped it. Had one of my favorite tones, too.
Now that you got me thinking about Freddie, I think if it were
possible to encapsulate everything I love most about the blues, it
would be on Tain't Nobody's Bizness If I Do, from Freddie King
(1934-1976). Especially the opening lick. Just Exactly Perfect.
Fred
Neil X.
>
> I don't really mean to dismiss all of BB Kings' work. It just that
> he has coasted on his early stuff for a long time
It's the curse of being great. If you die in your prime, you are an
all-time superstar who died before his time. If you live beyond the
period when you are able to truly be a god in your field, you are
"coasting" or "declining." It's tough up in Olympus.
> a lot of his fans seem to "love the blues" based on his later work.
Two thoughts here. First off, it's quite the curious assumption that
people like B.B. for his mediocre work, not his stellar early music.
Secondly, even if that's true, he has probably done more to generate
interest in the blues than any other musician, save possibly for
Muddy. Not that this is really relevant to the current discussion,
but it is a very good thing.
Peace,
Neil X.
Joker
> > Larry wrote:
>
> > I don't really mean to dismiss all of BB Kings' work. It just that
> > he has coasted on his early stuff for a long time
>
> It's the curse of being great. If you die in your prime, you are an
> all-time superstar who died before his time. If you live beyond the
> period when you are able to truly be a god in your field, you are
> "coasting" or "declining." It's tough up in Olympus.
As I stated in earlier posts, several of the players that I prefer
over BB, while they may have died too soon, didn't especially die
young. And they played for keeps up to the end. Howlin' Wolf, Albert
King, Freddie King, etc. I still think BB has not just coasted for a
decade or so, but really for the last 30 years, at least.
>
> > a lot of his fans seem to "love the blues" based on his later work.
>
> Two thoughts here. First off, it's quite the curious assumption that
> people like B.B. for his mediocre work, not his stellar early music.
> Secondly, even if that's true, he has probably done more to generate
> interest in the blues than any other musician, save possibly for
> Muddy. Not that this is really relevant to the current discussion,
> but it is a very good thing.
>
> Peace,
> Neil X.
First off, let me be more precise (always a good thing for me, I
know): it's not an assumption that I made about people who like BB for
his mediocre work. I know a few, and I bet you've known a few as well.
I know some of those folks described so well in another post who stand
around at the company picnic with a plate of potato salad tapping
their toe to "The Thrill Is Gone" and telling you what a great artist
BB King is. Ask them who else they like for blues and the silence is
telling. I have friends (deadheads and non-heads) who really fit this
picture.
Perhaps he has generated a lot of interest, but not any more than a
number of musicians, including Muddy Waters, but also the Rolling
Stones, Eric Clapton and Duane Allman. All of whom at various points
in their stellar careers not only extolled the influence of black
American blues artists, but put their money/prestige where their
mouths were.
The Rolling Stones, in one of their early (but not first) American
teevee appearances on Hullabaloo demanded that Howlin' Wolf be on
before them. The producers of the show, which was purely aimed at
white teens, had no idea who Wolf was. Not only did Wolf get on the
show, the Stones went out of their way to praise his work to a vast
new audience that tuned in for some Brit invasion rock.
Some years later, Wolf was going to London to do one of the famous
sessions that became a small series with various blues giants jamming
with British guitar heroes like Page, Clapton, etc. The label wanted
Wolf but not his band. Clapton said he wouldn't be a part of it unless
the whole band, particularly Hubert Sumlin, all made the trip.
Okay, small anecdotes I guess, but it's hard to argue that American
blues didn't benefit hugely from the success of the "British Invasion"
and it's pantheon of guitar heroes, most of whom cut *their* teeth on
American blues and R&B players who were virtually unknown here. I'd
even bet that's a small part--in a round about way-- of why the locals
at Theresa's were fond of the kids from UC when you were there. No
doubt they loved BB, but they also knew what the white kids from
England did for the music.
Just more random thoughts...
Larry
Neil X.
>
> I'd even bet that's a small part--in a round about way-- of why the locals
> at Theresa's were fond of the kids from UC when you were there. No
> doubt they loved BB, but they also knew what the white kids from
> England did for the music.
Uh, well, I'd take that bet. I'm quite certain that virtually none of
the South Side blacks in Theresa's had any clue about the existence of
whiteboy English "blues" musicians.
Peace,
Neil X.
Lfh
I'd bet you are right, Neil. But to me the worst part is that, as you
say, there were a dozen folks in the clubs. I've always found it a
travesty that blacks don't support the blues in more than, er, token
numbers. I don't think it's an overstatement at all to say that if the
British blues guys didn't come along, or that Bill Graham didn't get
some of those greats on the bill at the Fillmore, that the blues would
have died out long ago.
I was teaching a class of high school seniors one time and a group of
black students asked me if I liked rap. When I said I didn't, they
said it was because I didn' t like black music. I told them I liked
lots of black music, just not rap, and asked if they knew any blues
musicians.
The only one they knew was BB King. I asked them how they knew him and
they said cause he was on a Taco Bell commercial. There's a metaphor
in there somewhere.
Fred
Ken Fortenberry
> "Neil X." <nei...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Uh, well, I'd take that bet. I'm quite certain that virtually none of
>> the South Side blacks in Theresa's had any clue about the existence of
>> whiteboy English "blues" musicians.
>
> I'd bet you are right, Neil. But to me the worst part is that, as you
> say, there were a dozen folks in the clubs. I've always found it a
> travesty that blacks don't support the blues in more than, er, token
> numbers.
You ever been to a Chicago blues club ? The music is supposed to
start at 10, around 11 the band takes the stage, no front man,
just the band. The band plays til midnight than takes a set break,
around 12:45 they come back on stage, still no sign of the guy
you paid a cover to see. A little after 1, three hours late, the
bluesman finally makes an appearance, plays a lackluster set for
forty-five minutes and that's that, it's 2 o'clock. And the guy
acts like he's doing *you* a favor !! I think it's a friggin'
miracle anybody ever shows up at all.
--
Ken Fortenberry
Brad Greer
>On Feb 28, 8:31 pm, "Neil X." <nei...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > Larry wrote:
>>
>> > I'd even bet that's a small part--in a round about way-- of why the locals
>> > at Theresa's were fond of the kids from UC when you were there. No
>> > doubt they loved BB, but they also knew what the white kids from
>> > England did for the music.
>>
>> Uh, well, I'd take that bet. I'm quite certain that virtually none of
>> the South Side blacks in Theresa's had any clue about the existence of
>> whiteboy English "blues" musicians.
>
>I'd bet you are right, Neil. But to me the worst part is that, as you
>say, there were a dozen folks in the clubs. I've always found it a
>travesty that blacks don't support the blues in more than, er, token
>numbers. I don't think it's an overstatement at all to say that if the
>British blues guys didn't come along, or that Bill Graham didn't get
>some of those greats on the bill at the Fillmore, that the blues would
>have died out long ago.
Well, died out is a strong statement, but there's no doubt the British
blues guys did a lot to help the careers of B.B., Muddy, etc.
But why should black people be obligated to support the blues? After
all, nobody's asking white people to go out and buy Pat Boone records.
theothr1
"Ken Fortenberry" <> wrote
: Lfh wrote:
: > "Neil X." <wrote:
That's because the real
fun was out in the alley!
Sounds like you caught more
than one of Junior Wells'
shows :')
My deadhead boyfriend was big
on the blues circuit in the late 80's.
Loved Monday nights at the
Kingston Mines, where it
was open jam night. However,
the cover for me back in the
day was $9. Hello! And there's
always a 2 drink minimum.
Add doing this 4 times a week
and it nearly broke my newbie-
teacher's salary! We showed up
once at the KM on a weekend
and as he was waved in and I paid
the cover, the owner said,
"Man he can play! Wish he
were black. I'd hire him."
Neil X.
>
> nobody's asking white people to go out and buy Pat Boone records.
Well, I think Pat Boone is........
Peace,
Neil X.
Neil X.
>
> You ever been to a Chicago blues club ? The music is supposed to
> start at 10, around 11 the band takes the stage, no front man,
> just the band. The band plays til midnight than takes a set break,
> around 12:45 they come back on stage, still no sign of the guy
> you paid a cover to see. A little after 1, three hours late, the
> bluesman finally makes an appearance, plays a lackluster set for
> forty-five minutes and that's that, it's 2 o'clock. And the guy
> acts like he's doing *you* a favor !! I think it's a friggin'
> miracle anybody ever shows up at all.
Uh, well, that is the way it often (maybe even usually) went down at
the North Side Lincoln Park blues bars like Kingston Mines and
B.L.U.E.S. And indeed, it went down like that sometimes in the old
Theresa's and the old 'Board. But it wasn't always like that, it
wasn't even usually like that. Before Junior bought Theresa's, he
would sit in the audience and drink when he wasn't playing, chatting
up the crowd, often buying beers for folks who couldn't afford
another. He would be present for hours, often played 3-4 sets in a
night until 4 AM. After he bought Theresa's and made himelf the house
band, he was more involved in management, but the house band almost
always was on stage and playing, with Junior, for hours every time I
went.
Buddy was the worst for that kind of thing, even in the 80s, getting
to see him to play seriously, for an extended period of time, was the
exception. But hell, the covers wre usually $2, you took what you
could get, and Buddy almost always showed up unannounced (there would
be rumors floating around that he was going to show up, sometimes they
were right, sometimes not), so it was a treat no matter how long he
chose to play.
Peace,
Neil X.
Ken Fortenberry
It happened that way often enough to turn me off to the scene.
There's not a musician on earth who's a bigger prima donna than
the typical Chicago bluesman, and the more minor the talent the
bigger the prima donna. Perhaps that's because come sunrise the
bluesman is gonna be picking up your trash or delivering your
mail, so in the club you gotta "Give it up !" before he deigns
to make a late cameo.
And like you say, Buddy Guy is the exception to the rule. He's
a huge talent *and* a huge prima donna.
--
Ken Fortenberry
Tim Donohoe
I saw Buddy Guy play at a small theater in Huntington LI in the early
90s. He got on stage at precisely 9pm 20 minutes after his band started
playing, played 2 great sets, 45 minutes each, and hung around to chat
with people after the show. He had a few moments which were annoying
(Eric Clapton stole this riff from me ... blah blah blah) but overall he
did a great show and nothing about him was prima donna.