Worst setlist ever!
Steve Terry
Apparently no recording exists, but check it out:
06-11-69 California Hall, San Francisco, Ca. (Wed)
1: Let It Be Me, Silver Threads, Mama Tried, Cathy's Clown, Me & My
Uncle, Slewfoot, Dire Wolf, Games People Play, Race Is On, Green Green
Grass
2: Tiger By The Tail, I've Just Seen A Face, All I Have To Do Is
Dream, Wabash Cannonball, Railroading Great Divide
Bobby Ace And His Cards From The Bottom Of The Deck - Weir, Garcia,
Lesh, Hart and Constanten - with John Dawson and David Nelson on
guitar, autoharp and vocals and with Peter Grant on pedal steel
grunk
It is '69 after all, and it has a distinct lack of Samba in the Rain/
Childhood's End/Midi/Bralove/Hornsby/Welnick going for it.
On Top of that, what if Games People Play includes a 15 minute howling
Feedback interlude?
frndthdevl
it.
> On Top of that, what if Games People Play includes a 15 minute howling
> Feedback interlude?
Plus it is the reason I have posted this not so now blind link and
lyrics in the past. lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5znh58WITU8
If you can't imagine this being played in 1969,and it being a good
choice,one might not have been alive or aware.
Games People Play
Lyrics: Joe South
Music: Joe South
Played once on 11 June 1969 at a concert billed as "Bobby Ace And The
Cards From The Bottom Of The Deck." Not clear who sang it, but Bob
Weir seems the most likely.
Oh the games people play now
Every night and every day now
Never meaning what they say now
And never saying what they mean
And they while away the hours
In their ivory towers
'Till they're covered up with flowers
In the back of a black limousine
Though we make one another cry
Break our hearts when we say goodbye
Cross our hearts and we'll hope to die
Said the other was to blame
Neither one will ever give in
Though we gaze on an eight by ten (note 1)
Thinking 'bout the things that might have been
And it's a dirty rotten shame
Talking about you and me
And the games people play
People walking up to you
Singing glory hallelujah
And they're trying to sock it to you
In the name of the Lord
Gonna teach you how to meditate
Read your horoscope and cheat your fate
And furthermore to hell with hate
Come on get on board
Look around tell me what you see
What's happening to you and me
God grant me the serenity
To remember who I am
'Cause you've given up your sanity
All your pride and your vanity
Turn your back on humanity
And you don't give a damn
Talking about you and me
And the games people play
august
"Steve Terry" <paul_...@att.net> wrote in message
news:bda59552-9144-4ae8...@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
Cathy's Clown would be a perfect cover tune for John Dawson & David Nelson.
Joe South rocked in case you never caught him live.
Merle - enuf said
George Jones? another solid Hall of Famer
& the beatles?
ok, the dead could make beatles tunes suck but to me it sounds like an
interesting setlist worth paying for admission and some beers. AW
Steve Terry
> "Steve Terry" <paul_te...@att.net> wrote in message
Maybe "worst" was a bad choice of words. Weirdest or most eclectic
might have been better. This is definitely not your typical setlist
from '69, though. I'd love to give this one a listen in order to prove
myself wrong.
volkfolk
>
> - Show quoted text -
I suspect that it probably kicked ass. I love those weird setlists.
Scot
frndthdevl
>
Cathy's Clown
Lyrics: Don and Phil Everly
Music: Don and Phil Everly
This was apparently played during two Dead shows billed as Bobby Ace
And The Cards From The Bottom Of The Deck (on 6/11/69 and 4/17/70). No
tapes of these shows circulate. It was reportedly also played at the
Hell's Angels benefit on 11/23/70, though it does not appear in the
DeadBase list.
Green Green Grass Of Home
Lyrics: Curly Putman
Music: Curly Putman
Played a few times by the Grateful Dead in 1969-70 --in a pretty
straight rendition, similar to the original:
I've Just Seen A Face
Lyrics: Lennon/McCartney
Music: Lennon/McCartney
Played once on 11 June 1969 at a concert billed as "Bobby Ace And The
Cards From The Bottom Of The Deck." Not clear who sang it, but Bob
Weir seems the most likely.
Silver Threads And Golden Needles
Lyrics: Reynolds/Rhodes
Music: Reynolds/Rhodes
Played by the Grateful Dead from their first days in 1966 through to
1970, but then dropped from their repertoire. The version below is one
they sang in 1970 acoustic sets (with some variations). Earliesr
versions from 1966 omit the first verse, with Bob Weir instead singing
the first verse twice. (Thanks to Lucius for help with the lyrics)
All I Have To Do Is Dream
Lyrics: Boudleaux Bryant
Music: Boudleaux Bryant
Played once on 11 June 1969 at a concert billed as "Bobby Ace And The
Cards From The Bottom Of The Deck."
Wabash Cannonball
Lyrics: Traditional
Music: Traditional
Played once by the Grateful Dead on 11 June 1969 at a concert billed
as "Bobby Ace And The Cards From The Bottom Of The Deck." No tape
exists, so these are the lyrics from the version recently recorded by
Bob Weir with Dan Zanes
I've Got A Tiger By The Tail
Lyrics: Owens, Howard
Music: Owens, Howard
Played on 11 June 1969 by Garcia, Lesh, Hart and Constanten (with John
Dawson, David Nelson and Peter Grant) at a concert billed as "Bobby
Ace And His Cards From The Bottom Of The Deck." The list is from
DeadBase - no known tape of the performance exists. These are the
lyrics from the original Buck Owens version:
Railroading On The Great Divide
Lyrics: Sara Carter
Music: Sara Carter
The Dead played this once, on 11 June 1969 at a concert billed as
Bobby Ace and the Cards from the Bottom of the Deck. The song was
originally performed by the Carter Family, but it seems most likely
that the Dead learnt it from the New Lost City Ramblers' version.
There is no known tape of the Dead's performance in circulation, so
the lyrics below come from other versions
Let It Be Me
Lyrics: Curtis, Becaud
Music: Curtis, Becaud
Played once on 11 June 1969 at a concert billed as "Bobby Ace And The
Cards From The Bottom Of The Deck."
frndthdevl
Andrew
> On Apr 9, 8:52 pm, "august" <august_west...@nospam.com> wrote:
>> "Steve Terry" <paul_te...@att.net> wrote in message
>>
>> news:bda59552-9144-4ae8...@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>> Can anyone top this? The bad trip tent was surely full that day.
>>> Apparently no recording exists, but check it out:
>>> 06-11-69 California Hall, San Francisco, Ca. (Wed)
>>> 1: Let It Be Me, Silver Threads, Mama Tried, Cathy's Clown, Me & My
>>> Uncle, Slewfoot, Dire Wolf, Games People Play, Race Is On, Green Green
>>> Grass
>>> 2: Tiger By The Tail, I've Just Seen A Face, All I Have To Do Is
>>> Dream, Wabash Cannonball, Railroading Great Divide
>>> Bobby Ace And His Cards From The Bottom Of The Deck - Weir, Garcia,
>>> Lesh, Hart and Constanten - with John Dawson and David Nelson on
>>> guitar, autoharp and vocals and with Peter Grant on pedal steel
>>
>> Joe South rocked in case you never caught him live.
>>
>> Merle - enuf said
>>
>> George Jones? another solid Hall of Famer
>>
>> & the beatles?
>>
>> ok, the dead could make beatles tunes suck but to me it sounds like an
>> interesting setlist worth paying for admission and some beers. AW
>
> Maybe "worst" was a bad choice of words. Weirdest or most eclectic
> might have been better. This is definitely not your typical setlist
> from '69, though. I'd love to give this one a listen in order to prove
> myself wrong.
I dunno. Worst may be right on. That has the capacity to be one friggin'
terrible show.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
eclect...@yahoo.com
Cathy's Clown? With a 4 minute Phil solo and a furious melt-down from
Jerry right before the last verse?
Looks like an interesting show. All it needs is a version of "The
Master's Bouquet" and "Let Me In 86938" to be a complete collection of
every loveable late '60s oddity they covered. :) It was the band's
ability to switch between stuff like this and The Other One or Dark
Star (sometimes all in the same song) that kept things interesting.
6-27-69 has a truncated version of The Eleven>Green Green Grass of
Home.
Lance
miracle...@yahoo.com
green green grass of home!..you have to do your homework to hang.
Kirk McElhearn
> Maybe "worst" was a bad choice of words. Weirdest or most eclectic
> might have been better. This is definitely not your typical setlist
> from '69, though. I'd love to give this one a listen in order to prove
> myself wrong.
It's not a Dead show, though. With Dawson and Nelson, it's more of a
"Mother McGee's" show. I think it would be something to hear...
Kirk
--
Read my blog, Kirkville
http://www.mcelhearn.com
pbuzb...@yahoo.com
country songs. Kind of a research period which helped them write and
perform the Workingman's/American Beauty material. They probably
weren't advertised as Dead shows.
Pat Buzby
Chicago, IL
Douglas T Lilley
> 2nd set from 8/29/82
>
> Keep Your Day Job > Samson And Delilah ; He's Gone > Drums > Space >
> Not Fade Away > Wharf Rat > Sugar Magnolia Encore U.S. Blues
>
> There were some really dull sets in 1995 as well, but that goes
> without saying . . .
That does look like one of those "man there are some cute groupies in
the front row/let's get this done and go catch a buzz" second sets.
Lfh
> 6-27-69 has a truncated version of The Eleven>Green Green Grass of
> Home.
That cut is cruel. It would have been cool to hear if that was a
transition. You hear Bob say "green green grass of home" as the Eleven
is slowing down to a crawl, but it is hard to imagine it being a real
transition instead of a Dead stop.
That show is also noteworthy for the Dire Wolf with the Bobby vox and
Jer's steel, which was a cool little touch there for the few times
they did it.
Fred
Neil X.
>
> 2nd set from 8/29/82
>
> Keep Your Day Job > Samson And Delilah ; He's Gone > Drums > Space >
> Not Fade Away > Wharf Rat > Sugar Magnolia Encore U.S. Blues
Uh, what exactly is wrong with that setlist? If you told me before a
second set that I'd be hearing Samson, He's Gone, NFA and Wharf Rat,
I'd be a very happy camper.
Peace,
Neil X.
Andrew Murawa
Looks like a complete snoozer to me.
JimK
Yeah, the post-drums is okay as setlists from after the 70's go, but
no more than that. If pre-drums was more than 30 minutes I'd be
surprised. Day Job to open a 2nd set is a disaster, and while I like
Samson and He's Gone well enough, neither is my idea of a 2nd set
focal point. Where's the jamming here? Maybe a few minutes out of He's
Gone? If you told me before the set that I'd be hearing these songs,
I'd be happy, too....as long as I'd also be hearing Playing>Terrapin
or Scarlet>Fire.
JimK
Andrew Murawa
> On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 14:32:22 -0700 (PDT), Andrew Murawa
>
Yeah, exactly. About the only jamming here is out of He's Gone (and
while I like the song, it generally ain't my favorite jam vehicle) and
out of Wharf Rat, although perhaps the NFA in that position in that
era is opened up slightly more than I expect.
Chris
<eclect...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:95e7be10-b50f-43b8...@a5g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
not going to confirm or deny ?
shimmy
Early shades of Ratdog creeping in even in '69.
Pepe Papon
And this setlist is bad because...?
--
~ Seth Jackson
MySpace URL - http://www.myspace.com/sethjacksonsong
Songwriting and Music Business Info: http://www.sethjackson.net
Pepe Papon
<marks...@gmail.com> wrote:
>2nd set from 8/29/82
>
>Keep Your Day Job > Samson And Delilah ; He's Gone > Drums > Space >
>Not Fade Away > Wharf Rat > Sugar Magnolia Encore U.S. Blues
I was at that show. I liked it quite a bit.
>There were some really dull sets in 1995 as well, but that goes
>without saying . . .
Pepe Papon
Man, you folks are a tough crowd. That was a fine show if a bit on
the short side. Other than the length of the show, I can't find a
thing wrong with the song selection.
JimK
Have you considered that you maybe you're too easy? If I ever went to
a show and got Day Job>Samson>He's Gone into the drums, I'd be
seriously disappointed unless those songs were a helluva lot better
than average. As I said before, I could live with the post-drums
segment.
JimK
Neil X.
<hitmeister.at.mindpring.dot.c...@earthlink.invalid> wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 20:02:52 -0700 (PDT), Andrew Murawa
>
>
>
Yah, any time I go to a show with a He's Gone, Wharf Rat and NFA, I'm
not going to be complaining about the setlist. And I'm certainly not
nominating the show as one of the worst setlists ever.
Peace,
Neil X.
JerseyMike
thing is I have the CD and like it. :)
10/16/89
Picasso Moon [6:44] ; Mississippi Half-Step Uptown Toodeloo [6:32] ;
Feel Like A Stranger [7:08] ; Never Trust A Woman [6:24] ; [2:27] ;
Built To Last [4:38] ; Stuck Inside Of Mobile With The Memphis Blues
Again [8:46] ; Let It Grow [11:55] ; Deal [8:20]
Dark Star [10:42] (1) > Playing In The Band [7:27] > Uncle John's Band
[8:53] > Playing In The Band Jam [8:31] > Drums [6:21] > Space [4:#22]
> I Will Take You Home [4:10] > I Need A Miracle [3:47] > Dark Star
[5:06] (2) > Attics Of My Life [4:23] > Playing In The Band Reprise
[3:03]
Encore And We Bid You Good Night [2:31]
Maybe seeing the Stones open up the '89 tour a month earlier had
something to do with it.
Cheers
Brad Greer
While I think this show tends to be a little overrated (due to the
outstanding second set setlist, I thought 10/14 was a better overall
show) I can't imagine walking out of this show thinking "that's it,
I'm done with the Dead." A Dark Star, a Playin', an Uncle John's
Band, what more do you need? Plus the fact that Dark Star had been in
mothballs for so long until they broke it out in Hampton a week or so
before.
JerseyMike
much better. The Picasso Moon opener was really tight and rockin' and
they finished off the first set here quite well. Dark Star and the
spacey stuff takes time to settle in and you really need to be in the
mood for it. If that's not what you want to hear, well, that can be a
real bummer. The sound quality of the Cd's are really terrific and I
appreciate the show more now than I did then.
Cheers
JimK
wrote:
I know it's being a little picky (hey, I'm a Deadhead), but more than
20 minutes out of the drums would have been nice. Even with the D.S.
coda, there's not much meat on those bones. And IWTYH is a huge
negative, although it's offset a bit by the Let It Grow>Deal first set
closer.
JimK
Brad Greer
wrote:
Yeah, the post-drums was short, but all and all a good set. Not as
good an overall show as two nights before, but hardly a show I'd walk
out of and say "I'm done seeing the Dead."
Lfh
Neil X. wrote:
> > Man, you folks are a tough crowd. That was a fine show if a bit on
> > the short side. Other than the length of the show, I can't find a
> > thing wrong with the song selection.
>
>
> Yah, any time I go to a show with a He's Gone, Wharf Rat and NFA, I'm
> not going to be complaining about the setlist. And I'm certainly not
> nominating the show as one of the worst setlists ever.
Seems a little, oh, I don't know, uh, 80's generic to me.
Fred
Avant Grape
You had me until NFA. I could have done without that song from show two
on.
-JC
Avant Grape
> Can anyone top this? The bad trip tent was surely full that day.
> Apparently no recording exists, but check it out:
>
> 06-11-69 California Hall, San Francisco, Ca. (Wed)
> 1: Let It Be Me, Silver Threads, Mama Tried, Cathy's Clown, Me & My
> Uncle, Slewfoot, Dire Wolf, Games People Play, Race Is On, Green Green
> Grass
> 2: Tiger By The Tail, I've Just Seen A Face, All I Have To Do Is
> Dream, Wabash Cannonball, Railroading Great Divide
I take it you don't like ol' school country music. Jerry's playing is
rooted in a lot of country music actually, so I can never understand why
a lot of heads write these classics off. Yeah, Weir was never
authentically very country sounding, but it was always a hoot to hear
Jerry do a little Bakersfield boogie. Looks a like one hell of a fun
time to me. Now, whether they actually played it well or not, I haven't
a clue.
-JC
Avant Grape
> actually a very tight performance and a great audience recording! Only
> their imagination was lacking, but the prior day's blowout in Veneta
> likely had some lingering effects.
>
> http://www.archive.org/details/gd82-08-29.fob-nak300.miller.17957.sbeok.shnf
"Imagination" is often overrated. I don't subscribe to the "if they
play long jams and/or have a creative set list, then it's a guaranteed
great show" crowd. The band is tight and listening well to each other
here. I like it.
-JC
Douglas T Lilley
> On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 11:21:40 -0400, Brad Greer <jjh110...@yahoo.com>
Amen. Either one of those would have been great to end a first set.
Deal from say 1989 onwards was an absolute killer first set ender IMO,
you knew Jerry wanted to rock. Perhaps truer of the JGB than the
Dead, but still. All in all this looks like a great show, I'll have
to investigate...
Steve Terry
wrote:
Oh, I dig old school country music alright. With the right band I
would certainly be digging that setlist. But the Grateful Dead? I just
don't see any jams in there, no Dark Stars or Other Ones and such.
That's what draws me to '69. I've recently listened to 6/28/69. Those
C&W experiments just don't do it for me. I'd rather hear Jim and Jesse
do Slewfoot. Silver Threads and Golden Needles? Ugh! The vox are weak.
Even the MAMU is lame. Jerry is always a treat to listen to in any
style and I understand that this was a transitional period for the
band, but thank god they didn't end up being strictly a country and
western band. Of course, this show was supposedly never recorded so
who knows. Maybe they nailed it. However, judging from their similar
material from the period I just can't imagine that they did. I've said
too much.
Neil X.
>
> You had me until NFA. I could have done without that song from show two
> on.
Really? It did grow short and formulaic through a lot of the 80s, but
almost any NFA from the 70s, either early 70s or late, it's usually
one of the highlights of the night during that decade. Lots of
inspired playing during NFA in the 70s.
Peace,
Neil X.
Brad Greer
wrote:
Up until NFA became a second set closer only I really liked the song.
In '83 they started the Throwing Stones->NFA combination and NFA lost
something. The first couple of times I experienced the audience
sing-along and clapping I liked it, but after a short while it got
old. Prior to that NFA was a great vehicle for jamming.
JimK
I think it's a fine setlist unless you went to the show with a head
full of acid, in which case your original point about the bad trip
tent being full makes perfect sense.
JimK
Pepe Papon
wrote:
You might actually try listening to the performances. Also, Day Job
was a brand new song at the time. The breakout occurred the previous
night, making this one only the second performance. Y'know, some
folks actually were *excited* to hear new tunes.
Out of curiosity, and since I was there and enjoyed the show, I went
back and downloaded it from the archive. Now, I'm *certain* that you
folks are crazy. This is one helluva show.
The setlist also doesn't mention the nice, long, tight, stretched out
jam after He's Gone. It's exactly the kind of jam that used to draw
me to Dead shows. Prime quality.
So, it's not the longest show in the world, but it's very, very good.
Pepe Papon
But that's *always* what I was in the mood to hear at a Dead show!
Pepe Papon
<q3j...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Deal from say 1989 onwards was an absolute killer first set ender IMO,
>you knew Jerry wanted to rock.
You can go back 8 years on that.
Pepe Papon
Funny, because that was always one of the songs I went to shows hoping
to hear. At least until somewhere in the mid-'80s. Even then, I
always liked it.
Pepe Papon
<paul_...@att.net> wrote:
Was this an acoustic set or electric?
JimK
<hitmeister.at.mindpring.dot.com.@earthlink.invalid> wrote:
I was usually up for hearing most of the new tunes, too, but Day Job
would not have been one of them. And I don't think it's a terrible
song. It had it's place, though, and opening the second set wasn't it.
As far as listening to the performances, I've heard dozens and dozens
of versions of Samson and He's Gone (both fine songs), and the only
way I wouldn't be disappointed in this pre-drums setlist would be if
both were all-timers. Even then, Samson at its best was never a
vehicle for jamming, which is what I'm looking for in a second set. So
that He's Gone would have to have been really off the charts.
>
>Out of curiosity, and since I was there and enjoyed the show, I went
>back and downloaded it from the archive. Now, I'm *certain* that you
>folks are crazy. This is one helluva show.
>
>The setlist also doesn't mention the nice, long, tight, stretched out
>jam after He's Gone. It's exactly the kind of jam that used to draw
>me to Dead shows. Prime quality.
>
>So, it's not the longest show in the world, but it's very, very good.
I guess it depends on what you're looking for in a Dead show. For me,
it was the jamming and one nice jam during pre-drums isn't going to
cut it.
JimK
Neil X.
<hitmeister.at.mindpring.dot.c...@earthlink.invalid> wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 09:40:32 -0700 (PDT), JerseyMike
>
> >Ooops, my last show was actually a few days later in Philly which was
> >much better. The Picasso Moon opener was really tight and rockin' and
> >they finished off the first set here quite well. Dark Star and the
> >spacey stuff takes time to settle in and you really need to be in the
> >mood for it. If that's not what you want to hear, well, that can be a
> >real bummer. The sound quality of the Cd's are really terrific and I
> >appreciate the show more now than I did then.
>
> >Cheers
>
> But that's *always* what I was in the mood to hear at a Dead show!
Yeah, no kidding. Can one really be a Deadhead if one isn't in the
mood to hear Dark Star at a GD show?
Peace,
Neil X.
SkyYellow...@hotmail.com
That is THE litmus test for Heads.........if you dont like the jamming
or have a hankerin' for a live Dark Star, you really dont "get" it.
Neil X.
<hitmeister.at.mindpring.dot.c...@earthlink.invalid> wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 09:26:00 -0400, JimK <jkezwind@comcastDOTnet>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 02:46:57 -0700, Pepe Papon
> ><hitmeister.at.mindpring.dot.c...@earthlink.invalid> wrote:
>
> >>On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 20:02:52 -0700 (PDT), Andrew Murawa
Well now, in fairness to the haters, we weren't really talking about
whether or not the performance was good, we were talking about whether
this qualifies as one of the "worst setlists ever." You don't need to
hear a single note of the show to have an opinion about how much the
setlist interests you. I would not have minded this setlist, I would
have liked it. I am sure I could find dozens of shows with setlists
that I would rather hear less.
Just a quick comment on He's Gone: I LOVE those post-He's Gone jams.
So fine. The one from the 1981 Dick's Pick is truly sublime, but
that's just one among many. So many times, the primal-ness just
exudes from these jams.
Peace,
Neil X.
Lfh
Yes, one *can* truly and absolutely really be a Deadhead if one isn't
in the mood to hear a Dark Star at a GD show. No ifs, ands, or buts
about it.
Fred
Andrew Murawa
<hitmeister.at.mindpring.dot.c...@earthlink.invalid> wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 09:26:00 -0400, JimK <jkezwind@comcastDOTnet>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 02:46:57 -0700, Pepe Papon
> ><hitmeister.at.mindpring.dot.c...@earthlink.invalid> wrote:
>
> >>On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 20:02:52 -0700 (PDT), Andrew Murawa
Well, there is certainly a difference between a discussion about
"worst show ever" and "worst setlist ever". I've certainly made no
comments about the relative strength of the show, because I haven't
heard... What I've said is that the setlist looks like a friggin'
snoozer.
dyrewlf@v.n
"SkyYellow...@hotmail.com" <SkyYellow...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
I remember that wonderful night I saw my 1sy Dark Star. The rains
stopping..the sky starting to clear as the opening notes of Dark Star
come forth. I remember the joy of listening to those notes and being
treated to a Dark Star that turned an already magical night into a
memorable one. Steve
Pepe Papon
wrote:
BTW, the more I think about this comment, the more ludicrous it seems.
Imagine going to a show with my favorite band and actually *enjoying*
the music instead of whining about the selection of songs!
>If I ever went to
>>>a show and got Day Job>Samson>He's Gone into the drums, I'd be
>>>seriously disappointed unless those songs were a helluva lot better
>>>than average. As I said before, I could live with the post-drums
>>>segment.
>>>
>>>JimK
>>
>>You might actually try listening to the performances. Also, Day Job
>>was a brand new song at the time. The breakout occurred the previous
>>night, making this one only the second performance. Y'know, some
>>folks actually were *excited* to hear new tunes.
>
>I was usually up for hearing most of the new tunes, too, but Day Job
>would not have been one of them.
Uh, how would you know if it was new and you hadn't heard it?
> And I don't think it's a terrible
>song. It had it's place, though, and opening the second set wasn't it.
Except on 8/28 and 8/29/82.
>As far as listening to the performances, I've heard dozens and dozens
>of versions of Samson and He's Gone (both fine songs), and the only
>way I wouldn't be disappointed in this pre-drums setlist would be if
>both were all-timers. Even then, Samson at its best was never a
>vehicle for jamming, which is what I'm looking for in a second set. So
>that He's Gone would have to have been really off the charts.
I'm also looking for jamming, and I'm thrilled with the jam after He's
Gone. NFA was also a jamming vehicle back then, although not to the
extent it was in the '70s. The NFA from this night was sweet.
>>Out of curiosity, and since I was there and enjoyed the show, I went
>>back and downloaded it from the archive. Now, I'm *certain* that you
>>folks are crazy. This is one helluva show.
>>
>>The setlist also doesn't mention the nice, long, tight, stretched out
>>jam after He's Gone. It's exactly the kind of jam that used to draw
>>me to Dead shows. Prime quality.
>>
>>So, it's not the longest show in the world, but it's very, very good.
>
>I guess it depends on what you're looking for in a Dead show. For me,
>it was the jamming and one nice jam during pre-drums isn't going to
>cut it.
>
>JimK
Then you must have been disappointed quite a bit after 1981. Very
few shows had more than one nice jam in the second set unless you
count "Space". Many shows had no jams at all.
I looked for jams as much as anyone, and I was also disappointed a lot
during the '80s and '90s. But when I hear a good recording, I enjoy
it. Setlists are irrelevant.
Pepe Papon
wrote:
>On Apr 15, 3:56 am, Pepe Papon
I suppose, but I'm with you on the setlist. Fine if you don't like
Day Job, but I don't see a thing wrong with the remaining song
selection other than that the set is short. The first set from that
night is longer than usual, so it balances out. You'll never hear me
complain about He's Gone or NFA -> Wharf Rat.
The later versions of Samson I can take or leave, but it was still a
pretty smokin' song in '82.
>Just a quick comment on He's Gone: I LOVE those post-He's Gone jams.
>So fine. The one from the 1981 Dick's Pick is truly sublime, but
>that's just one among many. So many times, the primal-ness just
>exudes from these jams.
The one of DP13 is the ultimate. Arguably the best post-hiatus jam,
bar none.
The He's Gone jam from 8/29/82 is really, really good.
Pepe Papon
I disagree with that, but I also disagree with the fundamental idea
that you can tell much about the quality of a show from the setlist.
Pepe Papon
>I remember that wonderful night I saw my 1sy Dark Star. The rains
>stopping..the sky starting to clear as the opening notes of Dark Star
>come forth. I remember the joy of listening to those notes and being
>treated to a Dark Star that turned an already magical night into a
>memorable one. Steve
I don't remember my first Dark Star. I heard it but I didn't know it
was Dark Star. In fact, I didn't find out till years later that
they had played it.
I knew exactly zero Dead songs at my first show. That was probably
the best way to see the Dead - no possible disappointment over
setlists.
JimK
<hitmeister.at.mindpring.dot.com.@earthlink.invalid> wrote:
Enjoying the band and being critical of the music, including the song
selections, aren't mutually exclusive. Part of the Dead's magic, at
least for me, was putting together a group of songs that worked
together. Usually they were successful, sometimes they weren't. Of
course, everyone has their own opinion as to what worked and what
didn't. I don't hate the song, but Day Job opening the second set
wouldn't work for me. If you want to call that whining, have at it.
>
>
>>If I ever went to
>>>>a show and got Day Job>Samson>He's Gone into the drums, I'd be
>>>>seriously disappointed unless those songs were a helluva lot better
>>>>than average. As I said before, I could live with the post-drums
>>>>segment.
>>>>
>>>>JimK
>>>
>>>You might actually try listening to the performances. Also, Day Job
>>>was a brand new song at the time. The breakout occurred the previous
>>>night, making this one only the second performance. Y'know, some
>>>folks actually were *excited* to hear new tunes.
>>
>>I was usually up for hearing most of the new tunes, too, but Day Job
>>would not have been one of them.
>
>Uh, how would you know if it was new and you hadn't heard it?
Well, a song is usually considered new for at least a little while
after its first performance. Having heard Day Job once, it would not
be a song that I would particularly look forward to hearing again. As
I said earlier, I don't hate the song but it's certainly not among my
top 100 Dead tunes either.
>
>> And I don't think it's a terrible
>>song. It had it's place, though, and opening the second set wasn't it.
>
>Except on 8/28 and 8/29/82.
Just because they played in that slot doesn't mean it belonged there.
>
>>As far as listening to the performances, I've heard dozens and dozens
>>of versions of Samson and He's Gone (both fine songs), and the only
>>way I wouldn't be disappointed in this pre-drums setlist would be if
>>both were all-timers. Even then, Samson at its best was never a
>>vehicle for jamming, which is what I'm looking for in a second set. So
>>that He's Gone would have to have been really off the charts.
>
>I'm also looking for jamming, and I'm thrilled with the jam after He's
>Gone. NFA was also a jamming vehicle back then, although not to the
>extent it was in the '70s. The NFA from this night was sweet.
I'm sure the jam after He's Gone is fine, but during the 80's and 90's
the pre-drums segment was where most of the Dead's heavy jamming took
place. Personally, I'd be disappointed if I only got one jam in that
segment. I wouldn't whine about it and it wouldn't totally ruin the
show for me as long as they played what they played well, but it would
be a lesser experience than I always hoped for when I went to a Dead
show. What's wrong with having high expectations?
As far as NFA and the rest of the post-drums, we have no argument. My
criticism has been limited to that pre-drums segment where one
normally expects the meat of the show.
>
>>>Out of curiosity, and since I was there and enjoyed the show, I went
>>>back and downloaded it from the archive. Now, I'm *certain* that you
>>>folks are crazy. This is one helluva show.
>>>
>>>The setlist also doesn't mention the nice, long, tight, stretched out
>>>jam after He's Gone. It's exactly the kind of jam that used to draw
>>>me to Dead shows. Prime quality.
>>>
>>>So, it's not the longest show in the world, but it's very, very good.
>>
>>I guess it depends on what you're looking for in a Dead show. For me,
>>it was the jamming and one nice jam during pre-drums isn't going to
>>cut it.
>>
>>JimK
>
>Then you must have been disappointed quite a bit after 1981. Very
>few shows had more than one nice jam in the second set unless you
>count "Space". Many shows had no jams at all.
Very few shows during the 80's and 90's had more than one jam??
Really?
>
>I looked for jams as much as anyone, and I was also disappointed a lot
>during the '80s and '90s. But when I hear a good recording, I enjoy
>it. Setlists are irrelevant.
So you admit that you were disappointed when you didn't get jams, but
I'm whining? What's the difference?
JimK
JimK
That's ridiculous. Anyone who's listened to the number of Dead shows
that most of us have can usually get some idea of how good a show was
from the setlist. If I see Touch>Women Are Smarter>Ship of
Fools>Sailor>Saint, I can make an educated guess that this would not
be a particularly hot show. That doesn't mean that any or all of those
songs suck, just that it's not a combination that would generally
result in a hot set. I will admit that there are shows where the
setlist looks really good but the actual playing was less than
stellar. But at least you can look at that setlist and know that the
potential was there for a great show. If the setlist is like my
example above, you can be pretty sure that you're not going to be
hearing a barnburner.
JimK
SkyYellow...@hotmail.com
<hitmeister.at.mindpring.dot.c...@earthlink.invalid> wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 22:07:21 GMT, dyre...@v.n wrote:
> >I remember that wonderful night I saw my 1sy Dark Star. The rains
> >stopping..the sky starting to clear as the opening notes of Dark Star
> >come forth. I remember the joy of listening to those notes and being
> >treated to a Dark Star that turned an already magical night into a
> >memorable one. Steve
>
> I don't remember my first Dark Star. I heard it but I didn't know it
> was Dark Star. In fact, I didn't find out till years later that
> they had played it.
>
> I knew exactly zero Dead songs at my first show. That was probably
> the best way to see the Dead - no possible disappointment over
> setlists.
> --
> ~ Seth Jackson
>
> Songwriting and Music Business Info:http://www.sethjackson.net
I never saw them play a Dark Star. The closest I got to it was a
tease, albeit a very slight one, at a Rosemont show in the 90s. While
it'd be great if I did hear one live, I can take solace in all the
great recordings of it from years past.
Lfh
Pepe Papon wrote:
> Then you must have been disappointed quite a bit after 1981. Very
> few shows had more than one nice jam in the second set unless you
> count "Space". Many shows had no jams at all.
None at all? Seth, could you define what you mean by "jam"? This term
seems to be a slippery little devil. By my lights, I find this comment
wildly off-base, but you are no dope when it comes to the Dead, so I
gotta think it's a definition of terms thing.
Fred
LP
>
> I never saw them play a Dark Star. The closest I got to it was a
> tease, albeit a very slight one, at a Rosemont show in the 90s. While
> it'd be great if I did hear one live, I can take solace in all the
I was present for only one GD Dark Star - 12/30/90. A treat, but it
wasn't quite the same as the Stars of old.
Truly my Dark Star highlight was playing the song in my old band with
Tom Constanten sitting in on keyboards. He came to our practice space
and played it with us, and a few days later did it again with us at
the gig we had practiced for. His instantly recognizable sounds were a
joy beyond measure for me.
LP
JimK
wrote:
Yeah, I'm a bit confused myself. When I refer to jamming in terms of
the Dead, I'm including the improvised parts within or coming out of
standard songs as well as pure jams that aren't based on any
particular song. I think Seth may be referring to the latter.
JimK
Douglas T Lilley
>
> also, the dynamic around heads during a good stretch of the 80s,
> between Go to Heaven and In the Dark, was like, "is the band EVER gonna
> record another *new* studio album?
Which of course was followed by much bitching and moaning about the
tune choice/singer choice/mix/producer/cover photo/general perceived
lameness of whatever studio album heads had been waiting years for.
In some ways we were so spoiled...one could always find a couple dozen
new bootlegs to listen to when the new studio stuff got old.
LP
> On 2008-04-17 22:27:43 +0900, JimK <jkezwind@comcastDOTnet> said:
>
> > Enjoying the band and being critical of the music, including the song
> > selections, aren't mutually exclusive. Part of the Dead's magic, at
> > least for me, was putting together a group of songs that worked
> > together. Usually they were successful, sometimes they weren't. Of
> > course, everyone has their own opinion as to what worked and what
> > didn't. I don't hate the song, but Day Job opening the second set
> > wouldn't work for me. If you want to call that whining, have at it.
>
> said, *at the time (1982),* being present at the introduction of new
> tunes was pretty cool in the whole scheme of things. also making their
> first appearance around that year were touch of grey and throwing
> stones...
I was at the show that debuted Touch of Grey. I liked it right away,
but I may have been in the minority.
LP
Gladys
> I was at the show that debuted Touch of Grey. I liked it right away,
> but I may have been in the minority.
I also loved it the first time I heard it (though I thought they were
playing Bertha LOL).
This is a very strange GD song for me though - I like the studio version
the best. Love the Garcia solo.
Gladys.
Lfh
Douglas T Lilley wrote:
> Which of course was followed by much bitching and moaning about the
> tune choice/singer choice/mix/producer/cover photo/general perceived
> lameness of whatever studio album heads had been waiting years for.
> In some ways we were so spoiled...one could always find a couple dozen
> new bootlegs to listen to when the new studio stuff got old.
Or just skip the albums altogether. To this day, I have still never
heard Shakedown Street or Go to Heaven in thier entirety.
Fred
Pepe Papon
wrote:
Since it seemed that you were referring to the latter, so was I. If
you were referring to the former, then you wouldn't have said that
Samson wasn't a jamming vehicle.
Pepe Papon
<1...@456.com> wrote:
>On 2008-04-17 14:56:52 +0900, Pepe Papon
><hitmeister.at.mindpring.dot.com.@earthlink.invalid> said:
>
>> Arguably the best post-coitus jam,
>> bar none.
>
>well then!
If you can think of a better one, then I want to hear it.
Pepe Papon
wrote:
>>I disagree with that, but I also disagree with the fundamental idea
>>that you can tell much about the quality of a show from the setlist.
>
>That's ridiculous. Anyone who's listened to the number of Dead shows
>that most of us have can usually get some idea of how good a show was
>from the setlist. If I see Touch>Women Are Smarter>Ship of
>Fools>Sailor>Saint, I can make an educated guess that this would not
>be a particularly hot show. That doesn't mean that any or all of those
>songs suck, just that it's not a combination that would generally
>result in a hot set. I will admit that there are shows where the
>setlist looks really good but the actual playing was less than
>stellar. But at least you can look at that setlist and know that the
>potential was there for a great show. If the setlist is like my
>example above, you can be pretty sure that you're not going to be
>hearing a barnburner.
Sorry, but the very example that started this thread refutes your
assertion. You seem to be assuming that 8/29/82 was a snoozer based
on the setlist. In fact, the CD has been stuck in my player since I
downloaded it a few days ago. I just wish for a better quality
recording.
JimK
<hitmeister.at.mindpring.dot.com.@earthlink.invalid> wrote:
>On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 16:42:44 -0400, JimK <jkezwind@comcastDOTnet>
>wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 09:49:15 -0700 (PDT), Lfh <onetas...@yahoo.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Pepe Papon wrote:
>>>
>>>> Then you must have been disappointed quite a bit after 1981. Very
>>>> few shows had more than one nice jam in the second set unless you
>>>> count "Space". Many shows had no jams at all.
>>>
>>>None at all? Seth, could you define what you mean by "jam"? This term
>>>seems to be a slippery little devil. By my lights, I find this comment
>>>wildly off-base, but you are no dope when it comes to the Dead, so I
>>>gotta think it's a definition of terms thing.
>>>
>>>Fred
>>
>>Yeah, I'm a bit confused myself. When I refer to jamming in terms of
>>the Dead, I'm including the improvised parts within or coming out of
>>standard songs as well as pure jams that aren't based on any
>>particular song. I think Seth may be referring to the latter.
>>
>>JimK
>
>Since it seemed that you were referring to the latter, so was I. If
>you were referring to the former, then you wouldn't have said that
>Samson wasn't a jamming vehicle.
Yes, I would. Or at least, it's not what I would consider one of the
Dead's major jamming vehicles. I'm a bit reluctant to rely on length
as a barometer for quality, but the fact is that with the Dead longer
*usually* meant better. While they jammed a little in Samson, the jams
were relatively short and didn't really get outside the song. Samson
as an exploratory vehicle that opened up was not in the same class as
songs like Playing, Other One, Help On The Way, Terrapin,
Scarlet/Fire, UJB, Eyes, and early versions of Truckin'. We all talk
about the various epic versions of these songs, compiling best ever
lists. Have you ever seen a discussion of the best ever version of
Samson? It's a good song, but it's just not in the same league as the
songs I mentioned as a jamming vehicle.
JimK
JimK
No, it doesn't refute my assertion. I have never asserted that a
setlist was an absolute predictor of the quality of a show, only that
it was a fairly reliable indicator. And I never assumed that 8/29/82
was a snoozer, although after I listen to it I may well reach that
conclusion. But the fact is that I've limited my reservations about
the show to the pre-drums segment (which I do consider a crucial part
of any modern era show); the rest of the setlist looks fine.
JimK
JerseyMike
<SkyYellowSunUSBl...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> That is THE litmus test for Heads.........if you dont like the jamming
> or have a hankerin' for a live Dark Star, you really dont "get" it.
LOL!
You make it sound like Dark Star is the GD's number one song. Sorry,
no way Jose. Would you mind explaining what it is that I don't "get."
Amuse me some more please.
Cheers
Gladys
> Would you mind explaining what it is that I don't "get."
Whatever floats your boat. What you don't "get" is what SkyYellowSun
"gets", nothing more, nothing less.
Gladys.
Lfh
> >Since it seemed that you were referring to the latter, so was I. If
> >you were referring to the former, then you wouldn't have said that
> >Samson wasn't a jamming vehicle.
>
> Yes, I would. Or at least, it's not what I would consider one of the
> Dead's major jamming vehicles.
Gotta admit that your mention of S&D as not being a jamming vehicle
confused me as well. Not a major vehicle does clear that up.
> I'm a bit reluctant to rely on length
> as a barometer for quality, but the fact is that with the Dead longer
> *usually* meant better. While they jammed a little in Samson, the jams
> were relatively short and didn't really get outside the song. Samson
> as an exploratory vehicle that opened up was not in the same class as
> songs like Playing, Other One, Help On The Way, Terrapin,
> Scarlet/Fire, UJB, Eyes, and early versions of Truckin'. We all talk
> about the various epic versions of these songs, compiling best ever
> lists.
Help on the Way? Never heard one that wasn't merely a nice little
stroll, giving one time to adjust one's helmet for Slipknot!, but I'm
guessing you really meant that beasty anyway.
> Have you ever seen a discussion of the best ever version of
> Samson? It's a good song, but it's just not in the same league as the
> songs I mentioned as a jamming vehicle.
I agree, although there are some fiery fuckers tucked away in 83-84.
But you knew I was gonna say that. And that said, it still isn't gonna
make my eyes light up if I see it on a setlist, though I remember
liking it a bunch back in the shows I saw from 76-79. After my hiatus,
I didn't care for it near as much.
Fred
Lfh
> > > But that's *always* what I was in the mood to hear at a Dead show!
>
> > Yeah, no kidding. Can one really be a Deadhead if one isn't in the
> > mood to hear Dark Star at a GD show?
>
> > Peace,
> > Neil X.
>
> That is THE litmus test for Heads.........if you dont like the jamming
> or have a hankerin' for a live Dark Star, you really dont "get" it.
Whoa, I don't know how I missed this before I responded to Neil's
post, but here we are.
Nothing against the jamming or the hankering for a Dark Star, given
that I have been spending the last two days tucked into the glory of
the 4/8/72 gem over and over again and am presently listening to
5/11/72 DS (which, btw, though longer than 4/8, just can't hold a
candle to it), but the idea that such is THE litmus test is
unmitigated bullshit.
And this idea that they weren't jamming unless they went "out" is
just, well, out to lunch. They jammed their asses off on lots of tunes
that never went anywhere near "out," such as Scarlet Fire, China
Rider, Franklin's, Caution, etc.
For all the playing "out" the Dead did over their careers, they spent
prolly triple that time playing "in," and this idea that you are only
"really" a head if you treasure the "out" is ridiculous. The undying
legacy of the Dead is their ability to play in and out with equal
facility and felicity, which is what made them so fucking great. It
was the balancing of both poles that made it so magical, and much as I
adore the "out" stuff, there are certainly many, many times when I am
not at all in the mood for it and don't go near it.
Fred
Andrew
Just within the last few months I have finally taken the opportunity to
purchase both the first Grateful Dead album and Blues for Allah. I had
heard the first album once, never heard the Blues for Allah album.
And, after listening to Blues for Allah at least, the question that came
to my mind was, wtf took so long? There are some disconcerting things on
that album (TMNS is pretty bad IMO), but all in all, that is a pretty
damn good studio album.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
Andrew
My two cents on Samson: love it. If it shows up on a setlist, as a 2nd
set Sunday opener or a little further back in the setlist or something,
I know that I'll be enjoying it. But as far as jamming, I don't consider
Samson to be a vehicle for jamming. While there are of course breaks in
Samson, they usually stay within the song, don't stray too far and are
fairly compact. And, Samson in '77 is not a whole lot different than
Samson in the 90s; the structure always remained the same.
Again, not anything against Samson as it is a ripping little tune, it is
just not something that the boys are really gonna open up.
As for best Samson ever? Howzabout 10/4/81 out of a 2nd set opening
CR&S, just a ripping little thing, despite a couple attempts by Bob to
muck it up. Nice touch by Bob at the end though, after the final "if I
had my way, I would tear this ol' building down" when he slips in a
"wouldn't be hard" at the end... 10/8/84 is another very good one,
slighly more inventive jamming than normal. And of course, just about
every version from '77 is an all-timer.
Andrew
> On Apr 15, 1:21 pm, "SkyYellowSunUSBl...@hotmail.com"
> <SkyYellowSunUSBl...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> That is THE litmus test for Heads.........if you dont like the jamming
>> or have a hankerin' for a live Dark Star, you really dont "get" it.
>
> LOL!
>
> You make it sound like Dark Star is the GD's number one song.
Um. Hmmmm.
Andrew
> And this idea that they weren't jamming unless they went "out" is
> just, well, out to lunch. They jammed their asses off on lots of tunes
> that never went anywhere near "out," such as Scarlet Fire, China
> Rider, Franklin's, Caution, etc.
I dunno. All of those tunes seem to get jammed "out" in my definition of
the term.
Lfh
> Lfh wrote:
> > And this idea that they weren't jamming unless they went "out" is
> > just, well, out to lunch. They jammed their asses off on lots of tunes
> > that never went anywhere near "out," such as Scarlet Fire, China
> > Rider, Franklin's, Caution, etc.
>
> I dunno. All of those tunes seem to get jammed "out" in my definition of
> the term.
Ok, I don't mean jamming out as in taking it and going and going and
going, but jamming "out" as in getting atonal or not being based on
the changes of the tune. Those tunes listed may jam out, but the
certainly don't jam "out." That's why I put it in quotes.
Fred
SkyYellow...@hotmail.com
My suggestion was somewhat tongue in cheek but still, there is a grain
of truth to it. Outside of the blend of country/blues/rock that the GD
have, its the improvisation/'out there" stuff that really makes them
unique and interesting. Why would the moths (heads) be attracted to
the flame (GD) if they didnt care for the light (improv)?
Lfh
> My suggestion was somewhat tongue in cheek but still, there is a grain
> of truth to it. Outside of the blend of country/blues/rock that the GD
> have, its the improvisation/'out there" stuff that really makes them
> unique and interesting. Why would the moths (heads) be attracted to
> the flame (GD) if they didnt care for the light (improv)?
Improvisation/out there is *not* one catagory. That's my point.
Scarlet Fire or Franklin's were not "out there" by any stretch of the
imagination, but they were improv as could be.
As for the "out there" stuff, nothing before hiatus approached the
total outfreakage that was latter day Space, yet somehow the latter
doesn't count and the boys were never as "out" as before hiatus. Uh,
sure.
A lot of it is packaging, too. You take the weirdest space shit from a
garden variety latter day Space and tuck a Dark Star head on it and
it's like "wow, man they are really out there" (see 10/26/89). Take
off the Dark Star head, and it's a bathroom break for lots and lots
and lots of folks.
Fred
Andrew
Right, I understand that, but while Scarlet>Fire or China>Rider or HSF
or Caution that you mention above may not drop off the cliff into atonal
space, they are all jammed well out of the original structure of the
song. That's generally what I think of when I see the term "out". Rather
than just a jam on the theme and structure of the particular song (such
as Samson), jams outside of the original theme and structure (such as,
well, all those songs you mention).
Andrew
And I think a lot of that has to do with context. To have a He's Gone,
for instance, just sorta fizzle out and then all of a sudden the
drummers start playing weird shit for no apparent reason is an entirely
different thing than space that is contextually relevant to the song
that preceded it.
Steve Terry
> Truly my Dark Star highlight was playing the song in my old band with
> Tom Constanten sitting in on keyboards. He came to our practice space
> and played it with us, and a few days later did it again with us at
> the gig we had practiced for. His instantly recognizable sounds were a
> joy beyond measure for me.
Now that is way cool!
JerseyMike
<SkyYellowSunUSBl...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> My suggestion was somewhat tongue in cheek but still, there is a grain
> of truth to it. Outside of the blend of country/blues/rock that the GD
> have, its the improvisation/'out there" stuff that really makes them
> unique and interesting.
No doubt and I agree with you completely.
Cheers
LP
"In The Dark" was the first record they did set up "live" and after
road testing the songs for as long as 5 years. The results were
excellent.
As for "Touch" - give a re-listen to 6-15-85 Greek, the opening song.
It cooks like no other.
LP
Pepe Papon
wrote:
I've always been partial to the 12/31/83 version of "Touch"
Pepe Papon
wrote:
>> Have you ever seen a discussion of the best ever version of
>> Samson? It's a good song, but it's just not in the same league as the
>> songs I mentioned as a jamming vehicle.
>
>I agree, although there are some fiery fuckers tucked away in 83-84.
>But you knew I was gonna say that. And that said, it still isn't gonna
>make my eyes light up if I see it on a setlist, though I remember
>liking it a bunch back in the shows I saw from 76-79. After my hiatus,
>I didn't care for it near as much.
I also loved Samson the first few years. It got a bit old after a
while. Nowadays, though, find myself enjoying a good, smokin'
version of Samson.
Pepe Papon
wrote:
>As for best Samson ever? Howzabout 10/4/81 out of a 2nd set opening
>CR&S, just a ripping little thing, despite a couple attempts by Bob to
>muck it up. Nice touch by Bob at the end though, after the final "if I
>had my way, I would tear this ol' building down" when he slips in a
>"wouldn't be hard" at the end... 10/8/84 is another very good one,
>slighly more inventive jamming than normal. And of course, just about
>every version from '77 is an all-timer.
>** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
It's hard to pick a best ever, as they're not all that different, but
a few that stand out for me are 5/7/77, 2/31/78, 5/14/78, and the
newly rediscovered 8/29/82.
Pepe Papon
wrote:
Basically, it sounds to me as if you're really just complaining about
one song. What if they'd opened with, say, Bertha instead of Day
Job?
JimK
<hitmeister.at.mindpring.dot.com.@earthlink.invalid> wrote:
Make that Shakedown and you'd be getting warmer. I did give most of
the show a listen last night and to be honest, I think my assessment
of the show based on the setlist is fairly accurate. The first set is
solid but not spectacular, with the set ending Let It Grow the only
song that really stands out. Day Job has no business opening a second
set; to be charitable, I'm guessing they planned on closing the first
set with it but forgot to play it. Samson is maybe a bit above average
as Samsons go, and yes, He's Gone is outstanding. NFA is well-done if
unexceptional, but the Wharf Rat is a gem, very bluesy and soulful. I
didn't really pay close attention to Sugar Mag; it sounded okay.
Standard U.S. Blues encore.
All in all, it's a show that's worth a listen or two but I wouldn't
bother to download it. Based just on the setlist, that's about what I
would have expected. On a scale of 10, I'd give this show a 5 or 6.
JimK
Pepe Papon
wrote:
>
>
>Pepe Papon wrote:
>
>> Then you must have been disappointed quite a bit after 1981. Very
>> few shows had more than one nice jam in the second set unless you
>> count "Space". Many shows had no jams at all.
>
>None at all? Seth, could you define what you mean by "jam"? This term
>seems to be a slippery little devil. By my lights, I find this comment
>wildly off-base, but you are no dope when it comes to the Dead, so I
>gotta think it's a definition of terms thing.
>
>Fred
Well, I finally downloaded and listened to the legendary Lake Placid
show. While the first set is kickass, and the 2nd set is high
energy, it's an example of a jamless 2nd set unless you include Space
and the little 2-minute outro to The Wheel. Still a great show, but
no jams at all after the break.
Pepe Papon
wrote:
Whatever. I like it better than that. To me, the first set is
great. The 2nd set smokes, but is shorter than usual probably due to
the fact that the first set is longer than usual.
Even as you describe Set 2, it sounds great. An above average
Samson, an outstanding He's Gone, a well-done NFA, and a gem of a
Wharf Rat sounds pretty damn good to me.
Lfh
<hitmeister.at.mindpring.dot.c...@earthlink.invalid> wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 09:49:15 -0700 (PDT), Lfh <onetaste2...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >Pepe Papon wrote:
>
> >> Then you must have been disappointed quite a bit after 1981. Very
> >> few shows had more than one nice jam in the second set unless you
> >> count "Space". Many shows had no jams at all.
>
> >None at all? Seth, could you define what you mean by "jam"? This term
> >seems to be a slippery little devil. By my lights, I find this comment
> >wildly off-base, but you are no dope when it comes to the Dead, so I
> >gotta think it's a definition of terms thing.
>
> >Fred
>
> Well, I finally downloaded and listened to the legendary Lake Placid
> show. While the first set is kickass, and the 2nd set is high
> energy, it's an example of a jamless 2nd set unless you include Space
> and the little 2-minute outro to The Wheel. Still a great show, but
> no jams at all after the break.
Well, right you are. I imagine some exist, though I don't think "many"
would be right. Another I can think of off the top of my head is
11/1/85. With the exception of the little jam in Saint, that set is
jam free. And yet, it is one of the tippy-top shows of the year, and
believe me, folks were fucking *howling* about how good it was on the
way out. There was considerable magic in the air that night.
Fred