From the Site Admin at VinceWelnick.com
Andrew Murawa
here it is:
"Vince Welnick is gone. He was the sweetest human I have ever known. Kind,
generous, funny and warm hearted. He was my friend. He was talented, so
fucking talented. I was lucky to know him. So, damned lucky to know him and
Lori. God bless you, Lori. I'm so, so sorry.
Vince never got over the cruel way that the Grateful Dead band members
treated him after Jerry died. He never got over the sorrow of losing Jerry,
facing his own demons without his friend and could not understand how the
remaining fellow band-members treated him like shit the past several years.
I cannot possibly describe to you the hurt and anguish he felt when "The
Dead" decided to have a "Family Reunion of the SURVIVING MEMBERS" of
Grateful Dead, a band that he was no mere sideman for its last five years,
but a full member of by order of Jerry Garcia. How damned insulting was it
to have a "surviving members family reunion" and not invite your brother?
Did it occur to you how that hurt him, Bill, Bob, Phil, Mickey? The truth is
that you selfish bastards did not care if it hurt him. He's a big boy, he
just had to get over it, right?
I remember seeing Todd Rundgen at the "Walk Down Abbey Road" show in
Concord, CA around the same time when that "Family Reunion" was booked. He
asked how Vince was, and I told him about this "family reunion" concert of
SURVIVING MEMBERS and how Vince was specifically not invited, but in fact
was playing a gig at a campground not far from the show. Todd said, "Uh,
Vince isn't dead, isn't he a surviving member?" He got the irony. I got the
irony, but I also saw the hurt like none of you can believe. Vince kept a
brave face about it, trying to remain cheerful, hoping that somehow, someday
the tide would turn, the phone would ring and it would be Bob Weir calling
him. Calling just to say, "How are you, Vinny?" Something. Anything.
I am certain that Jerry would have been completely disgusted with the
terrible, cruel and despicable way that Vince was treated by the band, the
management, etc. following his death. The lack of compassion displayed
toward him, the ostracizing he felt burned and hurt Vince very deeply. He
was a sensitive, sweet soul. He just couldn't handle the rejection. He and I
spent hours and hours talking about these things, trying to get the demons
out, which led to him pouring out his heart when that show happened, right
on this website.
I told Vince to get his story out, tell everybody what happened on that
Ratdog bus, tell them everything. Tell them how Bob and Ratdog sent him,
having overdosed on the tour bus, to a hospital in the back of a taxi cab,
without a friend in site, and had him checked in as John Doe, and played the
show anyway. Tell them, Vince how you were despondent over facing
life-threatening cancer, a simultaneous diagnosis of Emphysema, and instead
of staying home to try to heal and get immediate surgery, how you chose to
give the fans the ill-fated summer 95 Dead tour. Tell them how nobody in the
band even acknowledged, though they damned well knew, that Vince was very
sick.
Tell them Vince, I said, how you didn't want to let the fans and the band
down, and how eery it was on the tour knowing all these people who were your
"friends" never asked how you were while on the road or even stepped aside
with you to acknowledge that struggle you were facing. Tell everyone, Vince,
how when you returned from the road, and Jerry was dead, how you were flung
into the hell of depression facing lung disease, cancer and now your friend
dying, and how you saw your world crash around you ever more when months
later the band unceremoniously announced it was over. Tell them Vince, tell
everyone and get the demons out.
Even more amazing than the band being cold to him, I could never understand
why so-called "dead heads" and "fans" spent hours coming into this site and
fucking with Vince, taunting him, posting evil, nasty lies about him. I
finally had to turn this into a registration-only website to help shield my
friend from the cruelness that some people took sport in on the message
boards. Vince could take a joke, he could take a lot, but he finally
couldn't take any more.
I had long, heart to heart talks with him for months before he told some of
that story to you here, though not even close to all that detail. Vince
didn't want to hurt the other guys, he just fucking wanted to play with
them.
Do you hear me, Phil? Do you hear me, Mickey? Do you hear me, Bobby? Do you
hear me, Bill? That's all he fucking wanted, was to play music with you
guys. He loved you and you fucking treated him like shit. To see your
"heartfelt" message on Dead.net today sickens me to no end, you fucking
bunch of lying hypocrites. There is nothing left to hold back on now. Is it
so hard to return the man's phone calls? Is it so hard to understand what he
went through back then and how far he had come since that dreadful night on
that Ratdog bus? Where is the love? Where is the compassion? Hippy love?
Bull-fucking-shit. You guys could have been nice to him, invited him along,
not made him feel like an ass and like he was bugging you if he called. Are
you happy, Cameron? Are you? Go fuck yourself. "
Bzl.
"Andrew Murawa" <gennynd...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:4ecu9gF...@individual.net...
This is pretty devastating. Very sad, and probably 95% true.
Gladys
Andrew Murawa wrote:
>
> How damned insulting was it
> to have a "surviving members family reunion" and not invite your brother?
> Did it occur to you how that hurt him, Bill, Bob, Phil, Mickey? The truth is
> that you selfish bastards did not care if it hurt him.
I remember feeling this way at the time and it still holds true today.
This was un-fucking-believable. The surviving members of the GD are
indeed a bunch of self serving hypocritical assholes who lucked into
playing with one of the greatest guitarists of all time. The only thing
decent remaining about any of them are the tapes of what they used to
be, and a halfway decent usenet newsgroup. What a legacy.
Gladys.
scarlet...@hotmail.com
now.
Theresa
jay m
I find it kind of unbeleivable that a band/group of people/family,
like the Grateful Dead, who seem so 'enlightened', could be so
unenlightened.
First is Pigpen, member, brother, suffering alchoholic. Allowed to
drink himself to death without any intervention, from his 'brothers'.
Second, Keith. A once brilliant piano player, slides into a very
public Heroin addiction to the point he's nodding out mid-performance.
Again, a hands off policy seems to be the order of the day.
Third, along comes Brent. Again open drug abuse is apparently
condoned. No effort appeared to be made to address is worsening
situation. (though I wasn't there and can't say, evidence points to
this).
And of course there was Jerry. The main guy, gets no love in his
battle w/ drug addiction. As long as he could make it to the shows, to
make the money, to pay for everyones houses and BMW's, all was well.
Not that the touring, pressure and responsibility kept him from taking
care of himself, didn't seem to matter. Again, lets not say or do
anything, lest they be seen as intruding on another persons, personal
space.
Now Vinces story has yet to be fully told. Though it seems the Dead,
kind of chews people up, and spits them out. Like it was said, too bad
if you can't handle it. Only the tough survive, or the lucky ones.
Another sad day in the history of a group I happen to
love,(musically), though I'm glad I don't have to rely on these guys
for support.
I don't think this will chang much though, I guess that's show
business for ya.
On Sat, 03 Jun 2006 06:30:49 -0600, Gladys <just...@say.it.anymore>
wrote:
AirtimeJunkie
reunion. It just didn't look right. Vince was their friggin' keyboard
player for several years. What justification did they use to not
invite him? Anyhow, I'm saddened to see that Vince is no longer with
us and even more saddened to hear that he was treated like shit from
the Dead.
Kevin
bradish
"Gladys" <just...@say.it.anymore> wrote in message
news:448180F9...@say.it.anymore...
>
>
> Andrew Murawa wrote:
>>
>> How damned insulting was it
>> to have a "surviving members family reunion" and not invite your brother?
>> Did it occur to you how that hurt him, Bill, Bob, Phil, Mickey? The truth
>> is
>> that you selfish bastards did not care if it hurt him.
>
> I remember feeling this way at the time and it still holds true today.
> This was un-fucking-believable. The surviving members of the GD are indeed
> a bunch of self serving hypocritical assholes who lucked into playing with
> one of the greatest guitarists of all time.
I agree, at least somewhat.
The part about being lucky is crap. Life plays its hand and you don't ever
know what is gonna happen. Sure, they were fortunate to be around when Jerry
was there, but so what? Without the rest of them, there was no GD and I
wouldn't have had such a great time enjoying their music.
But yes, the remaining band members were a bit cold towards Vince.
I haven't seen any GD related music since June 95 and have no desire to.
Especially when it seems the remaining members are just proving the point
that it was all about Jerry after all. I don't remember coming out of my
first shows in '77 and saying "wow! Weir was amazing during Begonias!"
Ken Fortenberry
> No holds barred here... Doesn't confirm my suspiscions exactly, but, well...
> here it is:
Even if what Site Admin says is 100% true, and I have no
reason to doubt that it is, it's still only one side of
the story. The post-Jerry shows I've seen appeared to be
very family oriented with lots of little kids backstage.
Who wants their kids to find the keyboard guy passed out
and OD'd on the tour bus ? Perhaps with Jerry gone the
rest of the band decided enough with the junkies already.
It's a very sad story in any case and I'm saddened to hear
of Vince's passing.
--
Ken Fortenberry
don...@gmail.com
Its sad.... Life has many dark twists and not so nice stories of what
really happens in the back alleys of life... Somehow I thnink, if
Garcia was around alot of things would have been different, then again
as Bob Marley said "what is to be must be"..... I personaly wish the
Welnick family my condolences. Its good the stories get out , even if
many had heard them often before. If you use the wisdom or not, love is
the key to everything.
Bean
JimK
wrote:
Be wary of making judgments about people you don't really know based
on what you read on the internet. There are always two sides to every
story, and sometimes more.
JimK
jay m
Well thats just my opinion...... And by the way I know a little about
addiction, co- dependence, and and dysfunctional familys....the Dead
were totally co dependant in their dealings with each of these guys.
They should have helped them, either by getting them the proper
treatment, or kicking them out of the band. This includes Garcia. They
should not have kept that machine running, just for the purpose of
enriching their employees, and yes their fans. No life is worth that.
Garcia could have gone on to kill himself as he did, or perhaps gotten
some help. who knows. By propping him up in front of a teleprompter,
was not serving the band, the audience, and especially him very
well.
And maybe they could have learned a thing or two from the previous
situations, to come to terms with it.
I realize everyone is human, with all the character defects, but as a
unit, I felt they were a little more evolved than it turns out they
were.
I'm not condeming anyone by the way, just voicing my opinion, God
forbid.
>
>
>Sure is easy to condemn people for actions they might have taken.
>Ever try and get a full blown addict help? Were you successful? If
>you were, please share with those of us who are not as good at being
>our brother's keepers.
>
>Unfortunately, you can't keep people from themselves.
yoker
reflect on Vince's passing.
Very sad indeed.
:_(
Yoker.
volkfolk
"DG" <x...@xxxcast.net> wrote in message
news:9t93825cqjg6p2v6e...@4ax.com...
> jay m wrote:
> Sure is easy to condemn people for actions they might have taken.
> Ever try and get a full blown addict help? Were you successful? If
> you were, please share with those of us who are not as good at being
> our brother's keepers.
>
> Unfortunately, you can't keep people from themselves.
God it is a very rare day when DG and I agree about anything, but
H100%RYK
Addiction one of the worst demons that can own a man's soul And no matter
how good or nice Vince may have been, it seems as though he had a few
demons. I only know what I have heard thtough the rumor mill, but Vince's OD
on the Ratdog tour bus seemed like it may have been the straw that broke the
camel's back with the Dead and Vince. Anyway as someone else pointed out,
Vince and the Dead were never a good fit for either the Dead or Vince
No matter, it is very tragic. Hopefully his soul is at peace.
Scot
RandyStoner
jay m wrote:
> I find it kind of unbeleivable that a band/group of people/family,
> like the Grateful Dead, who seem so 'enlightened', could be so
> unenlightened.
>
because I haven't found anything more authoritative than Dead.net and
VinceWelnick.com and am therefore speaking without all the facts), I
find it strange to see you (and others) ratbag the Dead for enabling
the addictions of Pigpen, Keith, Brent, and Jerry by not taking time
off to allow them to deal with their addictions, while complaining that
those same band members didn't throw Vince into the tour grind with a
Dead reunion.
Given that his site administrator says he OD-ed before one Ratdog show
and had to go to the hospital while the rest of the band put on the
show without him, it would seem that the best thing to do in such a
circumstance would have been to let Vince deal with his problems and
not to put him under the pressure that comes with a big tour. Sending
him to the hospital in a cab seems kinda harsh, but could have happened
right when everybody had to be at the venue working. Mike Lawson
doesn't give all the detail and his anger seems excessive -- a fact
that I'll put down to the loss of a friend.
I doubt the guys in the Dead are living saints, but over the years they
have shown themselves to be more "conscious" than your average
schmucks.
Either way, I'll miss Vince. I've been a fan of his since I first saw
him at the release party for the Tubes' first album until the last time
I saw him playing at the Dore Alley Street Fair a few years ago.
JB
> jay m wrote:
>> I find it kind of unbeleivable that a band/group of people/family,
>> like the Grateful Dead, who seem so 'enlightened', could be so
>> unenlightened.
>>
> Although I find myself agreeing with you on a number of points (and
> because I haven't found anything more authoritative than Dead.net and
> VinceWelnick.com and am therefore speaking without all the facts), I
> find it strange to see you (and others) ratbag the Dead for enabling
> the addictions of Pigpen, Keith, Brent, and Jerry by not taking time
> off to allow them to deal with their addictions, while complaining that
> those same band members didn't throw Vince into the tour grind with a
> Dead reunion.
First of all, they could have *invited* him. He, then, could have
determined whether he was physically and emotionally up to it.
>
> Given that his site administrator says he OD-ed before one Ratdog show
> and had to go to the hospital while the rest of the band put on the
> show without him, it would seem that the best thing to do in such a
> circumstance would have been to let Vince deal with his problems and
> not to put him under the pressure that comes with a big tour. Sending
> him to the hospital in a cab seems kinda harsh, but could have happened
> right when everybody had to be at the venue working. Mike Lawson
> doesn't give all the detail and his anger seems excessive -- a fact
> that I'll put down to the loss of a friend.
Was the band forced to play without him? No, they *chose* to. Lots of
concerts have been canceled due to last minute health issues (or OD's)
of the performers. You make it sound as though his problems were an
inconvenience to what was really important to them (or at least Bobby).
And if, in fact, they sent Vince to a hospital *alone* in the back of a
taxicab, then they should be ashamed of themselves. That is the bottom
line. Hell, I have dropped everything and accompanied total strangers
to the emergency room before. The least they could have done is send
one of the roadies or support personnel to be with him. (Granted, we
are only hearing/reading one side of the story here, but it seems
consistent with other things I've heard/read).
> I doubt the guys in the Dead are living saints, but over the years they
> have shown themselves to be more "conscious" than your average
> schmucks.
The evidence does not support that conclusion, or at least it does not
seem to be the case when it comes to helping people (and their supposed
"brothers") cope with emotional issues, health problems, and drug
addictions.
BVT
I guess I find it incredulous that us fans think it's any of our
business what the guys in the band do. We enabled these folks just as
much as any Ignatz-type dealers with our blind devotion to them. Their
music was superhuman, but they were not.
This crap that Mile Lawson puts out there is only one side of the
story. I'm sure there are 6 more sides. Mickey employed Vince, as did
Weir and Lesh, at different times after Jerry croaked. The OD thing
certainly played into Weir's feelings about using Vince anymore, and
that spilled over into the reunion thing. Lawson blames everyone for
this tradgedy except the one guy who's completely to blame: Vince
Welnick. A sweet man, but not superhuman, as evidenced by news reports
that he did, in fact, take his own life.
Play in a band full of former or current junkies, and everything is
dysfunctional, including their rabid fans.
Jim Morrison
>
> Its sad.... Life has many dark twists and not so nice stories of what
> really happens in the back alleys of life... Somehow I thnink, if
> Garcia was around alot of things would have been different, then again
> as Bob Marley said "what is to be must be"..... I personaly wish the
> Welnick family my condolences. Its good the stories get out , even if
> many had heard them often before. If you use the wisdom or not, love is
> the key to everything.
> Bean
>
well said.
Jim
The Lord of Eltingville
>
> I was also shocked when Vince was specifically not invited to the Dead
> reunion. It just didn't look right. Vince was their friggin' keyboard
> player for several years. What justification did they use to not
> invite him? Anyhow, I'm saddened to see that Vince is no longer with
> us and even more saddened to hear that he was treated like shit from
> the Dead.
Sadly, a number of the Dead's fans treated him like shit too. As harsh
as the original message was upon the first reading, I can't say that
there was too much that could really be disputed.
I liked occasionally reading through some of the forums on Vince's
site. It always impressed me that he took the time to answer questions,
give opinions, or just chat with people. You don't find that too often
with people who've had music careers as long as he'd had.
The world needs more people willing to take a moment or two out of their
day and do something that might make another person smile, or at least
feel like they weren't being ignored.
--
.
kpn...@yahoo.com
The Lord of Eltingville wrote:
> AirtimeJunkie wrote:
> >
> > I was also shocked when Vince was specifically not invited to the Dead
> > reunion. It just didn't look right. Vince was their friggin' keyboard
> > player for several years. What justification did they use to not
> > invite him? Anyhow, I'm saddened to see that Vince is no longer with
> > us and even more saddened to hear that he was treated like shit from
> > the Dead.
>
> Sadly, a number of the Dead's fans treated him like shit too. As harsh
> as the original message was upon the first reading, I can't say that
> there was too much that could really be disputed.
I agree. I find all this outpouring of love for "Wince" a bit odd.
While I
don't think I have said anything venomous (I'd have to check), I have
definitely read it here. I may not have thought he was a good fit, but
he was part of that family.
Kurt
The Lord of Eltingville
--
Grateful Dead keyboardist dies
21 minutes ago
SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - Vince Welnick, who took over as the Grateful
Dead's keyboard player in 1990 after a succession of predecessors met
untimely deaths, has died at the age of 55, according to an announcement
on his Web site.
"Vince passed from this earth on June 2, 2006 ... after a decade of
battling tragedy while creating beauty and light around him," the
announcement said. It did not give a cause of death.
The San Jose Mercury News said he died in a hospital on Friday after
being taken from his home in Forestville, California, and it quoted a
person at his home as saying "it looks like he took his own life."
Welnick had previously spoken of a deep depression after Jerry Garcia,
founding guitarist of the iconic psychedelic rock band, died in 1995 and
the group disbanded.
Welnick is the fourth keyboard player for the band to have died, and his
Web site referred to the position as a "particularly doomed spot."
He once told an interviewer, "A lot of people ask about that and my
stock answer is that I am aware of the fact that you could die doing
this job, but I was somewhat dying of boredom before the job came up so
I thought I'd take my chances."
Originally a member of the 1970s rock band "The Tubes," Welnick joined
the Grateful Dead after longest-serving keyboard player Brent Mydland
died in 1990 of a drug overdose.
Previously, pianist Keith Godchaux died in a car accident in 1980, a
year after he left the band, and founding vocalist and keyboard player
Ron "Pigpen" McKernan died in 1973 of a gastrointestinal hemorrhage.
After the Grateful Dead broke up and ended its 30-year run as one of
America's biggest touring acts, Welnick formed his own group, Missing
Man Formation. He also toured with other groups including Grateful Dead
drummer
Mickey Hart's band.
He did not take part in various reunions of the Dead's other surviving
members.
"His service to and love for the Grateful Dead were heartfelt and
essential. He had a loving soul and a joy in music that we were lucky to
share," the band said in a statement.
In an extension of the band's "curse of the keyboard player," Scott
Larned, cofounder and keyboard player for the nationally-touring
Grateful Dead tribute band Dark Star Orchestra, died last year of a
heart attack.
--
Source: "http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060603/music_nm/welnick_dc_1"
--
.
Hump
remaining members would do this. Fuck the remaining players. They're
not jack shit without Jerry Garcia anyway. They're a bunch of has
beens cashing in before they die soon because of their own abuses. I
do like Phil and friends when Trey's the friend though.
HuMp
The Lord of Eltingville wrote:
SteveASmith
> well...
> here it is:
I clearly felt that Vince was best keyboardist that the Dead had after the
passing of PigPen. I never felt Brent fit in. Keith also did a great job the
time he was here. I
recently went to a funeral for my best friend's son who died from heroin. It
has killed so many and ruined so many lives. As the other posters have
stated, there are two sides to every story. Maybe the Dead family was more
myth than truth. Everything was fine when it just acid and grass. Once "H"
entered the picture everything had changed. It's very sad.
JimK
wrote:
>On Sat, 03 Jun 2006 08:18:41 -0700, DG <x...@xxxcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>Well thats just my opinion...... And by the way I know a little about
>addiction, co- dependence, and and dysfunctional familys....the Dead
>were totally co dependant in their dealings with each of these guys.
>They should have helped them, either by getting them the proper
>treatment, or kicking them out of the band. This includes Garcia. They
>should not have kept that machine running, just for the purpose of
>enriching their employees, and yes their fans. No life is worth that.
>Garcia could have gone on to kill himself as he did, or perhaps gotten
>some help. who knows. By propping him up in front of a teleprompter,
>was not serving the band, the audience, and especially him very
>well.
>
>And maybe they could have learned a thing or two from the previous
>situations, to come to terms with it.
>
>I realize everyone is human, with all the character defects, but as a
>unit, I felt they were a little more evolved than it turns out they
>were.
>
>I'm not condeming anyone by the way, just voicing my opinion, God
>forbid.
>
Jerry may have been a heroin user, but by all accounts he was in full
possession of all his faculties until the time of his death. To say
that the other members of the band "propped him up in front of a
teleprompter" is unfair to the band and to Jerry. Nobody held a gun to
his head and made him continue touring. It was his decision and his
alone. That he may have made his decision because of a sense of
responsibility (perhaps misplaced) to the Dead organization and family
doesn't change that fact. Please don't make it sound like he was some
senile, drooling old fool who was taken advantage of.
JimK
Bzl.
"AirtimeJunkie" <airtim...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1149344587.1...@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>I was also shocked when Vince was specifically not invited to the Dead
> reunion. It just didn't look right. Vince was their friggin' keyboard
> player for several years. What justification did they use to not
> invite him?
** "Let's see... We can play with Vince and give him his usual full share,
or we can play with Barraco and Chimenti, and pay them their usual
pittance." Just my suspicions: It's all about the $$$ with these guys, and
has been since 8/9/95 or so.
Richard Morris
"jay m" <nfanine...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:mba3825cftipnuc5t...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 03 Jun 2006 08:18:41 -0700, DG <x...@xxxcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> Well thats just my opinion...... And by the way I know a little about
> addiction, co- dependence, and and dysfunctional familys....the Dead
> were totally co dependant in their dealings with each of these guys.
> They should have helped them, either by getting them the proper
> treatment, or kicking them out of the band.
Eh? Essentially what the original post says is that they kicked Welnick
out. I thought you were objecting to that.
> This includes Garcia. They
> should not have kept that machine running, just for the purpose of
> enriching their employees, and yes their fans. No life is worth that.
Let's see ... there were two interventions with Garcia that I know of. A
variety of attempts to help him get clean. A stint at a methadone clinic.
A stint at Betty Ford. Clearly, Garcia made his own choices, and if you
somehow think that everyone else is responsible for that you don't "know a
little about
> addiction, co- dependence, and and dysfunctional familys".
> Garcia could have gone on to kill himself as he did, or perhaps gotten
> some help. who knows. By propping him up in front of a teleprompter,
> was not serving the band, the audience, and especially him very
> well.
Yes, they held a gun at his head every night, and kept his family hostage in
order to make him play. ###
> And maybe they could have learned a thing or two from the previous
> situations, to come to terms with it.
>
> I realize everyone is human, with all the character defects, but as a
> unit, I felt they were a little more evolved than it turns out they
> were.
Then the issue isn't their evolution ... it is your perception, or lack
thereof.
> I'm not condeming anyone by the way, just voicing my opinion, God
> forbid.
I understand that you are voicing your opinion ... that is what people
mostly do here. But just because you are voicing your opinion does not mean
that your opinion rests on reality, or that it is valid. Opinions are like
assholes ... everyone has one ... but that does not make them all valid.
Bzl.
"Hump" <through...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1149352764....@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> This will be my 1 and only post on this board, but I'm ashamed that the
> remaining members would do this. Fuck the remaining players. They're
> not jack shit without Jerry Garcia anyway. They're a bunch of has
> beens cashing in before they die soon because of their own abuses. I
> do like Phil and friends when Trey's the friend though.
>
> HuMp
>
Walter Karmazyn
> This will be my 1 and only post on this board, but I'm ashamed that the
> remaining members would do this. Fuck the remaining players. They're
> not jack shit without Jerry Garcia anyway. They're a bunch of has
> beens cashing in before they die soon because of their own abuses. I
> do like Phil and friends when Trey's the friend though.
>
> HuMp
>
>
Don't let the door hit ya on the way back to rmp.... This guy has over
700 posts on rmp, according to Google. Now what tipped me off he might
be from there?
W
Richard Morris
> well...
> here it is:
snip
> I am certain that Jerry would have been completely disgusted with the
> terrible, cruel and despicable way that Vince was treated by the band, the
> management, etc. following his death.
snip
There was a quote in one of Garcia's biographies from the early days of
Garcia's organizing bluegrass and old-timey music bands. It goes something
like this:
"You haven't been dropped until you have been dropped by Garcia."
The point being that he could be just as ruthless in using people as anyone
else.
Whenever I hear anyone invoke the saintly name of Garcia, I am automatically
suspicious of motive. And in this case, I don't think it is necessary to
make the point that the writer wants to make.
For sure, the other members of the band quickly distanced themselves from
Welnick after the GD dissolved. We don't really know why. Was it shabby?
From the outside, it looks that way, but we don't know why they did. Could
it have been his musicianship?
Rogues Island's finest
Bzl. wrote:
> "AirtimeJunkie" <airtim...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:1149344587.1...@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >I was also shocked when Vince was specifically not invited to the Dead
> > reunion. It just didn't look right. Vince was their friggin' keyboard
> > player for several years. What justification did they use to not
> > invite him?
>
> ** "Let's see... We can play with Vince and give him his usual full share,
> or we can play with Barraco and Chimenti, and pay them their usual
> pittance." Just my suspicions: It's all about the $$$ with these guys, and
> has been since 8/9/95 or so.
At the risk of sounding harsh, perhaps the remaining members of the
Dead realized what so many of us in the crowd did: Vince was not a good
choice to play in the Grateful Dead. This says nothing about him as a
man or a musician, just how he fit into the band. Add to that the
ugliness with Ratdog, and perhaps they just decided it was not a good
fit to have him at Alpine.
NFA Vince. I enjoyed meeting and chatting with you at Toads a few
years back. Say hey to Jerry for us
Mark
wyeknot
> At the risk of sounding harsh, perhaps the remaining members of the
> Dead realized what so many of us in the crowd did: Vince was not a good
> choice to play in the Grateful Dead. This says nothing about him as a
> man or a musician, just how he fit into the band. Add to that the
> ugliness with Ratdog, and perhaps they just decided it was not a good
> fit to have him at Alpine.
>
> NFA Vince. I enjoyed meeting and chatting with you at Toads a few
> years back. Say hey to Jerry for us
The most I ever enjoyed him musically was a solo tour a few years back
at a bar. I thought it was pretty good.
And I don't mind sounding harsh, but I'm sure glad I don't have
thousands of strangers speculating about who I should or should not be
in business with....or be friends/family with.
Doesn't it strike anybody odd that this guy latched onto Garcia so much
after a mere 5 year professional relationship? I certainly do not blame
any Dead member for the obvious demons this troubled person battled.
And my heartfelt human soul says godspeed, and may he rest in peace.
Matt
LoneStarDead®
JB
> day and do something that might make another person smile, or at least
> feel like they weren't being ignored.
I had to repost that. It is very well put and right on the mark.
I will only add that more people should do that for strangers as well as
those they interact with on a daily basis.
JB
> Please don't make it sound like he was some
> senile, drooling old fool who was taken advantage of.
>
When I saw him up close at Highgate in 1994, he looked nearly that bad.
JB
> Opinions are like assholes ... everyone has one ...
> but that does not make them all valid.
Are you really questioning the validity of the hole in some people's
asses? WIIAAHSWYP?
Richard Morris
"JB" <JayB...@nospam.gmail.com> wrote in message
news:9cednfPAqsSUUBzZ...@suscom.com...
Heh! (tm) Ironmuffin
R.
Andrew Murawa
news:1149354432....@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
Yeah, I agree with this for the most part (and lemme just say in passing
that seeing Missing Man Formation in '96 or '97 or something at some little
roadhouse out in the desert out here, were Vince and his band played a long
and great show, was a highlight of any post-95 even remotely GD related
shows)... Vince wasn't a good fit for the Dead and quite apparently the Dead
weren't a great fit for Vince, musically, stylistically, and emotionally...
The Ratdog incident probably ended all working involvement the "core four"
were interested in having with him....
And still, it would have been the right thing to do to at least invite him
to Alpine, maybe have him play an hour set during the daytime w/ whatever
conglomeration he wanted to put together, and then invite him up for a song
or two during the main event...
But aside from all that, there were obviously quite a lot of issues with the
man in his own head... Mark him down as just another tortured soul in the GD
keyboard slot... I would guess (randomly, unknowingly and completely
meaninglessly) that if the GD had never come knocking on Vince's door, it
would have been better for him in the end, and perhaps this sad news of
yesterday doesn't happen...
Brad Greer
wrote:
[snip]
Jay - I'd say you know very little (if anything) about the inner
workings and personal relationships of the Grateful Dead. From all
reports they tried to get help for Pig (perhaps too late, perhaps they
tried earlier) and they tried to get help for Jerry (which he
ignored). They may well have tried to get help for Keith.
The Grateful Dead had a very dark side which many fans choose to
ignore. It was apparently not an easy environment to exist/work in.
Could they have treated Vince better after Jerry's death? Undoubtedly
so, but we've only heard Vince's side of it. Perhaps they reached out
to him and he didn't want their help (perhaps not). I don't have
nearly enough information to feel like I can judge their actions, I
seriously doubt that you do either.
Neil X.
> Hump wrote:
>
> This will be my 1 and only post on this board
Great news!
Peace,
Neil X.
JimK
?? What's the difference between a valid asshole and an invalid one?
JimK
Ed Chapin
Bzl. wrote:
>
> This is pretty devastating. Very sad, and probably 95% true.
Devastating indeed...
To the best of my knowledge, I only ever posted one thing to/about
Vince Welnick on this newsgroup, which was the following, and which I
felt was appropriate at the time:
I am saddened to be around to mourn his death, as I was happy to be
around to sing for his birthday.
Given that Nick was the other recipient of my song, I guess this is a
good time to point out that it is always a good thing to be as nice as
you can to those around you. You never know when they might not be
around. Specifically, Nick is a good man with a devastating disease
who has sometimes taken a lot of grief on this newsgroup--undoubtedly
by folks who don't understand the gravity of his situation.
Be good, people.
RIP Vince!
Ed
JimK
Let's not forget that Jerry was ready to fire Pigpen and Bobby in 1968
and would have done so had they not refused to go away.
JimK
bradish
"JimK" <jkezwind@comcastDOTnet> wrote in message
news:q8f382d352ri58jgj...@4ax.com...
>. Please don't make it sound like he was some
> senile, drooling old fool who was taken advantage of.
No, that would have been the audience.
theothr1
"Ed Chapin" wrote ...
I am saddened to be around to mourn his death, as I was happy to be
around to sing for his birthday.
Given that Nick was the other recipient of my song, I guess this is a
good time to point out that it is always a good thing to be as nice as
you can to those around you. You never know when they might not be
around. Specifically, Nick is a good man with a devastating disease
who has sometimes taken a lot of grief on this newsgroup--undoubtedly
by folks who don't understand the gravity of his situation.
Be good, people.
RIP Vince!
Ed
~~~~~
It well may be
That we will never meet again
In this lifetime
So let me say before we part
So much of me
Is made of what I learned from you
You'll be with me
Like a handprint on my heart
And now whatever way our stories end
I know you have re-written mine
By being my friend:
Like a ship blown from its mooring
By a wind off the sea
Like a seed dropped by a skybird
In a distant wood
Who can say if I've been changed for the better?
But because I knew you:
~excerpt from "For Good"
in the musical, Wicked
band beyond description
Ed, are you speaking of the Nick that also lives in Maine?
--
Peace,
Steve
Lest the amnesiacs forget:
http://www.workingforchange.com/comic.cfm?itemid=20086
http://www.workingforchange.com/comic.cfm?itemid=20111
BVT
Let's not forget that Garcia was Welnick's meal ticket as well......now
at least they get to eat together at the eternal sushi bar.
The Lord of Eltingville
>
> On 2006-06-04 04:01:25 +0900, "Ed Chapin" <edcha...@hotmail.com> said:
>
> >
> > Bzl. wrote:
> >>
> >> This is pretty devastating. Very sad, and probably 95% true.
> >
> > Devastating indeed...
> >
> > To the best of my knowledge, I only ever posted one thing to/about
> > Vince Welnick on this newsgroup, which was the following, and which I
> > felt was appropriate at the time:
> >
> > http://tinyurl.com/ej3se
> >
> > I am saddened to be around to mourn his death, as I was happy to be
> > around to sing for his birthday.
> >
> > Given that Nick was the other recipient of my song, I guess this is a
> > good time to point out that it is always a good thing to be as nice as
> > you can to those around you. You never know when they might not be
> > around. Specifically, Nick is a good man with a devastating disease
> > who has sometimes taken a lot of grief on this newsgroup--undoubtedly
> > by folks who don't understand the gravity of his situation.
> >
> > Be good, people.
> >
> > RIP Vince!
> >
> > Ed
>
> Ed, are you speaking of the Nick that also lives in Maine?
The one and the same. I know he lurks from time to time, but it'd be
nice to hear from him occasionally.
--
.
The Lord of Eltingville
>
> On Sat, 03 Jun 2006 14:21:48 GMT, jay m <nfanine...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> Jay - I'd say you know very little (if anything) about the inner
> workings and personal relationships of the Grateful Dead. From all
> reports they tried to get help for Pig (perhaps too late, perhaps they
> tried earlier) and they tried to get help for Jerry (which he
> ignored). They may well have tried to get help for Keith.
>
> The Grateful Dead had a very dark side which many fans choose to
> ignore. It was apparently not an easy environment to exist/work in.
A year or so ago, Annabelle was interviewed in Rolling Stone. IIRC, it
was part of a 10 years gone type retrospective on the band.
She mentioned that she could never quite figure out how/why so many fans
thought of them as saints who'd never hurt anyone, but the reality was
that they were a group of guys who had a very dark sense of humor, and
that she'd always likened them to a group of pirates.
> Could they have treated Vince better after Jerry's death? Undoubtedly
> so, but we've only heard Vince's side of it. Perhaps they reached out
> to him and he didn't want their help (perhaps not). I don't have
> nearly enough information to feel like I can judge their actions, I
> seriously doubt that you do either.
--
.
moonca...@yahoo.com
very disconcerting. What matters is that Mr. Welnick has passed away.
How very sad and tragic. Hopefully the Good Lord will comfort his
family and friends.
JonP
<gennynd...@verizon.net> wrote:
>Vince never got over the cruel way that the Grateful Dead band members
>treated him after Jerry died. He never got over the sorrow of losing Jerry,
>facing his own demons without his friend and could not understand how the
>remaining fellow band-members treated him like shit the past several years.
He tried to kill himself on their bus...And probably more that we do
not know about..Sounds like he really had a hard time just dealing
with regular life...Maybe he just projected his problems onto his
departure from the band...
JonP
JonP
If he wants to lash out at someone it should be vince....Not the
people that gave him a shot...
jonp
cassidyuk
cassidyuk
God bless Vince
If your envolved with hiting the big time with any band you have to
have the strength to handle the stress. Its not a question of looking
after a fellow brother their there to do their job. Poor Vince he
deserved respect but the limelight of the dead was maybe too much.
cassidyuk
jay m wrote:
> On Sat, 03 Jun 2006 08:18:41 -0700, DG <x...@xxxcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> Well thats just my opinion...... And by the way I know a little about
> addiction, co- dependence, and and dysfunctional familys....the Dead
> were totally co dependant in their dealings with each of these guys.
> They should have helped them, either by getting them the proper
> should not have kept that machine running, just for the purpose of
> enriching their employees, and yes their fans. No life is worth that.
> some help. who knows. By propping him up in front of a teleprompter,
> was not serving the band, the audience, and especially him very
> well.
>
> situations, to come to terms with it.
wow man Jerry just loved to play he would run though his fret board 4
hours a day before a gig
if he didnt play with the dead he would be gigging somewhere else the
guy loved the stage and would never stop playing. drug habit. i'll
health, would noyt stop the guy that was his life PLAYING
>
> I realize everyone is human, with all the character defects, but as a
> unit, I felt they were a little more evolved than it turns out they
> were.
>
> I'm not condeming anyone by the way, just voicing my opinion, God
> forbid.
>
> >
> >
> >Sure is easy to condemn people for actions they might have taken.
> >Ever try and get a full blown addict help? Were you successful? If
> >you were, please share with those of us who are not as good at being
> >our brother's keepers.
> >
> >Unfortunately, you can't keep people from themselves.
matthew
On 3 Jun 2006 17:49:54 -0700, "cassidyuk" <cassid...@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:
elver
> No holds barred here... Doesn't confirm my suspiscions exactly, but,
> well... here it is:
>
> "Vince Welnick is gone. He was the sweetest human I have ever known.
> Kind, generous, funny and warm hearted. He was my friend. He was
> talented, so fucking talented. I was lucky to know him. So, damned
> lucky to know him and Lori. God bless you, Lori. I'm so, so sorry.
>
> Vince never got over the cruel way that the Grateful Dead band members
> treated him after Jerry died. He never got over the sorrow of losing
> Jerry, facing his own demons without his friend and could not
> understand how the remaining fellow band-members treated him like shit
> the past several years.
>
> I cannot possibly describe to you the hurt and anguish he felt when
> "The Dead" decided to have a "Family Reunion of the SURVIVING MEMBERS"
> of Grateful Dead, a band that he was no mere sideman for its last five
> years, but a full member of by order of Jerry Garcia. How damned
> insulting was it to have a "surviving members family reunion" and not
> invite your brother? Did it occur to you how that hurt him, Bill, Bob,
> Phil, Mickey? The truth is that you selfish bastards did not care if
> it hurt him. He's a big boy, he just had to get over it, right?
>
> I remember seeing Todd Rundgen at the "Walk Down Abbey Road" show in
> Concord, CA around the same time when that "Family Reunion" was
> booked. He asked how Vince was, and I told him about this "family
> reunion" concert of SURVIVING MEMBERS and how Vince was specifically
> not invited, but in fact was playing a gig at a campground not far
> from the show. Todd said, "Uh, Vince isn't dead, isn't he a surviving
> member?" He got the irony. I got the irony, but I also saw the hurt
> like none of you can believe. Vince kept a brave face about it, trying
> to remain cheerful, hoping that somehow, someday the tide would turn,
> the phone would ring and it would be Bob Weir calling him. Calling
> just to say, "How are you, Vinny?" Something. Anything.
>
> I am certain that Jerry would have been completely disgusted with the
> terrible, cruel and despicable way that Vince was treated by the band,
> the management, etc. following his death. The lack of compassion
> displayed toward him, the ostracizing he felt burned and hurt Vince
> very deeply. He was a sensitive, sweet soul. He just couldn't handle
> the rejection. He and I spent hours and hours talking about these
> things, trying to get the demons out, which led to him pouring out his
> heart when that show happened, right on this website.
>
> I told Vince to get his story out, tell everybody what happened on
> that Ratdog bus, tell them everything. Tell them how Bob and Ratdog
> sent him, having overdosed on the tour bus, to a hospital in the back
> of a taxi cab, without a friend in site, and had him checked in as
> John Doe, and played the show anyway. Tell them, Vince how you were
> despondent over facing life-threatening cancer, a simultaneous
> diagnosis of Emphysema, and instead of staying home to try to heal and
> get immediate surgery, how you chose to give the fans the ill-fated
> summer 95 Dead tour. Tell them how nobody in the band even
> acknowledged, though they damned well knew, that Vince was very sick.
>
> Tell them Vince, I said, how you didn't want to let the fans and the
> band down, and how eery it was on the tour knowing all these people
> who were your "friends" never asked how you were while on the road or
> even stepped aside with you to acknowledge that struggle you were
> facing. Tell everyone, Vince, how when you returned from the road, and
> Jerry was dead, how you were flung into the hell of depression facing
> lung disease, cancer and now your friend dying, and how you saw your
> world crash around you ever more when months later the band
> unceremoniously announced it was over. Tell them Vince, tell everyone
> and get the demons out.
>
> Even more amazing than the band being cold to him, I could never
> understand why so-called "dead heads" and "fans" spent hours coming
> into this site and fucking with Vince, taunting him, posting evil,
> nasty lies about him. I finally had to turn this into a
> registration-only website to help shield my friend from the cruelness
> that some people took sport in on the message boards. Vince could take
> a joke, he could take a lot, but he finally couldn't take any more.
>
> I had long, heart to heart talks with him for months before he told
> some of that story to you here, though not even close to all that
> detail. Vince didn't want to hurt the other guys, he just fucking
> wanted to play with them.
>
> Do you hear me, Phil? Do you hear me, Mickey? Do you hear me, Bobby?
> Do you hear me, Bill? That's all he fucking wanted, was to play music
> with you guys. He loved you and you fucking treated him like shit. To
> see your "heartfelt" message on Dead.net today sickens me to no end,
> you fucking bunch of lying hypocrites. There is nothing left to hold
> back on now. Is it so hard to return the man's phone calls? Is it so
> hard to understand what he went through back then and how far he had
> come since that dreadful night on that Ratdog bus? Where is the love?
> Where is the compassion? Hippy love? Bull-fucking-shit. You guys could
> have been nice to him, invited him along, not made him feel like an
> ass and like he was bugging you if he called. Are you happy, Cameron?
> Are you? Go fuck yourself. "
>
>
>
Good Comedy piece...Vince was a grown man. He alone is responsible for
dealing with his demons. Rat dog is a professional buisness...They cant
have some zonked out scumbag destroying their run. Too many livings
depended on his having his shit toghether. Granted..People get
depressed and need to drop out..but don't pin it on the band.. Thier
plates are already full.. They have their own families to comfort..Fuck
you idiot.
elver
> kind of chews people up, and spits them out. Like it was said, too bad
> if you can't handle it. Only the tough survive, or the lucky ones.
10 years after Jerry's death. Vince needed to die so he offed himself like
a selfish coward. To blame anyone but Welnick is pitiful.
elver
> should not have kept that machine running, just for the purpose of
> enriching their employees, and yes their fans. No life is worth that.
> Garcia could have gone on to kill himself as he did, or perhaps gotten
> some help.
Garcia died in rehab douche bag...He was getting "help"
elver
FHLhzZnZ2dn...@suscom.com:
> Was the band forced to play without him? No, they *chose* to. Lots of
> concerts have been canceled due to last minute health issues (or OD's)
> of the performers. You make it sound as though his problems were an
> inconvenience to what was really important to them (or at least Bobby).
>
It is show biz...The show must go on...Fuck you
elver
news:e5t2m...@news2.newsguy.com:
> Annabelle
Annabelle is a whore. she is a dog shit eating whore.
elver
news:1149344587.1...@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
> I was also shocked when Vince was specifically not invited to the Dead
> reunion. It just didn't look right. Vince was their friggin' keyboard
> player for several years. What justification did they use to not
> invite him?
he was a risk to the tour. millions were at stake. there was no room for
someone who can't handle their dope.
elver
> Sadly, a number of the Dead's fans treated him like shit too
like what?
elver
news:i72dnTkHKtA_IxzZ...@trueband.net:
> Let's see... We can play with Vince and give him his usual full share,
> or we can play with Barraco and Chimenti, and pay them their usual
> pittance." Just my suspicions: It's all about the $$$ with these
> guys, and has been since 8/9/95 or so.
>
>
"You know he had to die...You know he had to diiieee!"
jay m
wrote:
>
Well I saw Jerry many times, and he couldn't even lift up his head,
from staring at his toes. He couldn't remember the words to Warf Rat
for cryin out loud. this was at the 30th anniversary,(not official)
show at Giants Staduim June '95. weeks before his death.
Jerry himself said he would have loved to do other things if he
didn't have the responsibility of all the people GDP, and their
respective mortgages,health care benefits etc.
To be honest there were many times that Jerry shouldn't have been on
tour, in my opinion.
That said, I was just picking up on the site admins anger towards
these guys. My feelings towrds Vince however, are that they did not
enable him to continue the party on their dime. He apparently never
got over Jerrys passing, and probably the end of that lifestyle, as
well as th "Golden Days".
It is sad about Vince, and Jerry, and Keith and Pigpen and Brent. I
didn't mean to condemn or judge anyone in my rant. If it came off as
that I regret it. I was trying to make a point that seemed to have
been lost in the chatter, as often happens when responding to a post
in this group.
Needless to say, we are all human, with human faults. I know we are
not are brothers keepesr, and everyone is responsible for their own
actions. Still if you saw someone trying to jump in front of a train,
and you could, wouldn't you try to stop him? Or would you just
say,"hey it was his decision"?
Sometimes people whos brains are addled by drugs, depression whatever,
don't really know what they are doing. I've heard several people who
were stopped from committing suicide, and were glad they had a secon
chance.
I do not know the inner wokigs of the Dead, true, but so much is
written and said here and other places, I feel I have the right to
offer my opinion. Thats what discussion groups are for.
>>
>Jerry may have been a heroin user, but by all accounts he was in full
>possession of all his faculties until the time of his death. To say
>that the other members of the band "propped him up in front of a
>teleprompter" is unfair to the band and to Jerry. Nobody held a gun to
>his head and made him continue touring. It was his decision and his
>alone. That he may have made his decision because of a sense of
>responsibility (perhaps misplaced) to the Dead organization and family
>doesn't change that fact. Please don't make it sound like he was some
>senile, drooling old fool who was taken advantage of.
>
>JimK
elver
4ax.com:
> He tried to kill himself on their bus...And probably more that we do
> not know about..Sounds like he really had a hard time just dealing
> with regular life...Maybe he just projected his problems onto his
> departure from the band...
>
Yeh...I wonder why they wouldnt want him around again?? Duh
Millhaven
I don't think I have ever seen you post before but I have to say I
agree with all the ones I can understand. Whether Vince was truly
suicidal or just being a drama queen, that kind of behavior can place
the tour and mental well being of the other members at risk.
The Lord of Eltingville
I thought garnet was the whore. I must be mistaken...
--
.
The Lord of Eltingville
Millhouse & wormdigga... Now *there's* a meeting of the minds.
--
.
wyeknot
> Jerry himself said he would have loved to do other things if he
> didn't have the responsibility of all the people GDP, and their
> respective mortgages,health care benefits etc.
While this may be true, show me one citation where Jerry said that.
Matt
Chris
"elver" <worm...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns97D8622201247w...@216.196.97.142...
I hope for the members sake they don't know you from Adam. You spread the
kind of vibe that ruined it in the end. Since when did people become
expendable commodities in our world?I have no idea if the interactions with
the remaining members was as this site admin says and i can see fireing
somone for incompetence. There's no reason hard working people should
suffer from an irresponsible influence and it may only have appeared harsh
from Vince's end but your jive is bunk and serves no good purpose.You should
STFU.
Julia
responsible for the choices people make. Just hope you make the right
ones at the right time.
This band always rode the highs & lows which included everything from
disputes & personal demons to maintaining a run & catalog of musical
enjoyment for the masses who never cared they were lacking a large
number of mainstream hits.
There's an awareness in the negative & I, like Gladys, lost the spark
after Jerry left us. There was no communal feeling left regardless of
who was on the stage. And who was on that stage wasn't suppose to matter
much anyway. How did that happen?
I like to see people celebrated in passing for the good they left
behind. View from the Vault II with 6/14/91, for example where Vince &
Bruce feed off each other. Combining the key work, improvising - that
takes some talent. Thanks, Vince! Hope you find the peace there you
might not have gotten here.
Art
Andrew Murawa wrote:
> No holds barred here... Doesn't confirm my suspiscions exactly, but, well...
> here it is:
>
>
<petty sniping snipped>
Apologies if the following thoughts have been posted already; I'm not
going to go through this entire thread, at least not yet...
Obviously that Mike guy was in mourning and just let it all go. Perhaps
he should have waited till he calmed down a little bit to express his
thoughts, but it was completely out of line to go off on the GD and
essentially blame them for Vince's suicide. The bottom line is that
life's not fair and it never has been or will be. If every time someone
was made to "feel bad" they went and killed themselves, there would be
nobody left. It's unfortunate about what happened, but to go and blame
somebody else is completely irresponsible.
Elver
news:iMmdnYTd_uXhgR7Z...@adelphia.com:
> Since when did people become
> expendable commodities in our world?
Dont be naive!!! capitalism exploits people. Are you that far out of touch
with buisness and the bottom line??
Elver
> Millhouse & wormdigga... Now *there's* a meeting of the minds.
>
Please explain this?
Elver
> I thought garnet was the whore. I must be mistaken...
yeh...You were mistaken.
John
Andrew Murawa ha escrito:
> No holds barred here... Doesn't confirm my suspiscions exactly, but, well...
> here it is:
>
Even if all of this is true, so what? The fact that the guy reacted
this way to it, speaks volumes about him and his problems. Where does
it say that if you work/hang out with someone that you have to continue
to do so for the rest of your life? Vince hit the luck jackpot when he
was picked to join the Dead. The guy needed to move on, since they were
not interested in playing with him for the reunions. Can you imagine
committing suicide just because some guys won't play music with you?
Please.
sci...@zzz.com
are many others. Some are supportive, most aren't, It's a difficult
business to make money from year to year to sustain the group.
Everybody wants a bigger piece of the pie, and their are managers,
record labels and hanger-ons.
jay m wrote:
> I find it kind of unbeleivable that a band/group of people/family,
> like the Grateful Dead, who seem so 'enlightened', could be so
> unenlightened.
>
> First is Pigpen, member, brother, suffering alchoholic. Allowed to
> drink himself to death without any intervention, from his 'brothers'.
>
> Second, Keith. A once brilliant piano player, slides into a very
> public Heroin addiction to the point he's nodding out mid-performance.
> Again, a hands off policy seems to be the order of the day.
>
> Third, along comes Brent. Again open drug abuse is apparently
> condoned. No effort appeared to be made to address is worsening
> situation. (though I wasn't there and can't say, evidence points to
> this).
>
> And of course there was Jerry. The main guy, gets no love in his
> battle w/ drug addiction. As long as he could make it to the shows, to
> make the money, to pay for everyones houses and BMW's, all was well.
> Not that the touring, pressure and responsibility kept him from taking
> care of himself, didn't seem to matter. Again, lets not say or do
> anything, lest they be seen as intruding on another persons, personal
> space.
>
> Now Vinces story has yet to be fully told. Though it seems the Dead,
> kind of chews people up, and spits them out. Like it was said, too bad
> if you can't handle it. Only the tough survive, or the lucky ones.
>
> Another sad day in the history of a group I happen to
> love,(musically), though I'm glad I don't have to rely on these guys
> for support.
>
> I don't think this will chang much though, I guess that's show
> business for ya.
>
>
>
> On Sat, 03 Jun 2006 06:30:49 -0600, Gladys <just...@say.it.anymore>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >Andrew Murawa wrote:
> >>
> >> How damned insulting was it
> >> to have a "surviving members family reunion" and not invite your brother?
> >> Did it occur to you how that hurt him, Bill, Bob, Phil, Mickey? The truth is
> >> that you selfish bastards did not care if it hurt him.
> >
> >I remember feeling this way at the time and it still holds true today.
> >This was un-fucking-believable. The surviving members of the GD are
> >indeed a bunch of self serving hypocritical assholes who lucked into
> >playing with one of the greatest guitarists of all time. The only thing
> >decent remaining about any of them are the tapes of what they used to
> >be, and a halfway decent usenet newsgroup. What a legacy.
> >
> >Gladys.
neurodancer
I guess this guy is trying to make up for lost time and rectify the sad
fact that we've missed all his wonderful previous posts by setting the
new single day posting record. Lucky rmgd.
ND
Chris
"Elver" <worm...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns97D8D0033BEB7w...@216.196.97.142...
God in Heaven ,I HOPE SOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!
The Lord of Eltingville
That's right. She was the skank. I always get those two mixed up.
--
.
The Lord of Eltingville
No.
--
.
bradish
<sci...@zzz.com> wrote in message
news:1149468652.0...@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>A lot of groups are like what you wrote, the Band comes to mind, there
> are many others. Some are supportive, most aren't, It's a difficult
> business to make money from year to year to sustain the group.
> Everybody wants a bigger piece of the pie, and their are managers,
> record labels and hanger-ons.
You left out the fans!
Ed Chapin
The Lord of Eltingville wrote:
> band beyond description wrote:
> >
> > Ed, are you speaking of the Nick that also lives in Maine?
>
> The one and the same. I know he lurks from time to time, but it'd be
> nice to hear from him occasionally.
>
Sorry I didn't get back to this thread in a timely manner, Steve.
Looks as though Ted answered my question though, as this is indeed the
Nick to whom I was referring. For all concerned parties, I saw Nick
today for the first time since Thanksgiving and he appears to be doing
very well indeed. In fact, he looks better than I do (not that this is
a great personal milestone or anything :^)
I know that Nick has mentioned his MS on this newsgroup on a few
occasions, but personal issues sometimes get buried in the day-to-day
noise around here. When I first met Nick five years ago, he was using
a walker to get around. His MS is a particularly aggressive form, and
has required some rather radical chemotherapy over the past few years
(which carries some serious health risks of its own). For obvious
reasons, I don't want to say any more online than he himself has, but I
am glad to see him in good health and spirits, and looking forward to
living a good, long life.
Ed
band beyond description
Well, not having known the situation, that's good to hear, and
understandable that more hasn't been publicly said. I just posted a
Montel Williams news item; not to make light of this in any way, but
maybe it could be applicable? At any rate, thanks for apprising me...
--
Peace,
Steve
Lest the amnesiacs forget:
http://www.workingforchange.com/comic.cfm?itemid=20086
http://www.workingforchange.com/comic.cfm?itemid=20111
dyrewlf
"JimK" <jkezwind@comcastDOTnet> wrote in message
news:o0n382hv58u93fnm4...@4ax.com...
>>
>
> ?? What's the difference between a valid asshole and an invalid one?
The wheelchair???
Ray
lol.
band beyond description
"band beyond description" <1...@456.com> wrote in message
news:4ep8d6F...@individual.net...
It also puts his sparky tie-dyes in a whole new light and dynamic! Be well,
Nick!
k sturm
"Ed Chapin" <edcha...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1149721804....@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
One of my sisters has MS, so I know a little about what it's like. I'm glad
to know that Nick is doing well. Thanks, Ed.
theothr1
"k sturm" > wrote ...
"Ed Chapin" wrote
--- -- -
Ditto. However, I've never hear of chemo for MS.
Anyway you look at it, it has to be a real struggle,
especially when you have young children to care
for as well. Wherever you are Nick, hope life is
taking it easy on you :')
Millhaven
My crazy uncle had MS. Then he died.