... and other wanderings in the mind of Dick Latvala.
So, we just returned from the DP14 release "party" at the Ocean Mist in Manutuck, RI. For spatial reference, a stones throw from Weekapaugh, RI, on the south ocean facing shore of South County. Fabulous digs, rustic beach bar with stage, 4 pool tables, bar, friendly waitstaff, fabulous view of the Atlantic Ocean and Block Island off in the distance, and Dick. Who had had a few drinks. Ahem.
So, Dick, what is the best Dark Star, -ever-? "Oh, man, to hell with those Hampton and Meadowlands shows, the best Dark Star -ever- is 10.26.89 MIAMI, BROTHER!" So, OK, me, reaching out to his shoulder, more to steady him than anything...."Dude, 10.26.EIGHTY-9?, I'm talking about the best Dark Star EVER, not on that TOUR!" "You heard what I said, MAN". I gave him like four opportnities to "adjust" his perspective, but no. With Pam Settle as my Presidential witness, that is the "Best Dark Star Ever." Discuss amongst yourselves.
I'll let the prez narrate from here, but other highlights of the evening included a bizarre exchange during "Q&A" where:
* September 73 was denegrated as if it were a disease: "September 73 is the worst bullshit excuse for music that I've ever heard in my LIFE, man." Uh OK, "next question!"
* Get ready for the 80s and 90s. Dick was overboard apologetic that "this is the last 70s you'll see in a long, long while, gotta keep the buying masses happy." Silly me, I made the aparently criminal suggestion that, if he was in the 80s anyway, that he consider such things as 6.20.83 ("someone ELSE has control of that, BRO!"), 11.1.85 ("Bunch of horseshit garbage, BRO"), 4.4.85, 7.19.87, 6.25.85, et cetera... <SNL Scotish Store Skit> "If it isn't 70s, its CRAP!</SNL Scotish Store Skit>, but that is what the public wants, ya KNOW?!?
* Me: "So, Dick, saw you at the Phil & Phriends gigs in April up at the BAR... I'm off to Merriweather to see those Phish guys tomorrow..." Dick: "DAMN, I wish I was doing that instead of doing this jive "Dicks Picks" mombo... fuckin' 38 minute VIOLA LEE BLUES dude, Trey kicks my ASS, and Kevin Shapiro is a cool dude that I trade tapes with, TABOOT, TABOOT!" Gotcha, Dick.
The prez sure got his attention, though, as she was a couple rows back Jerry side for the shows-o-de-release, 11.30 & 12.1.73... "Damn, I wish *I* was at those shows!"
So, to sum up: Venue: by the beach, lots o salt air, good grub, low-grade Scotch. Show: Some band, with Buddy Cage on pedal steel. They were kinda cute, but not really anything to pay attention to. Dick: having a REAL good time thank you. DP14: Buy it and buy it now, if you have read this far and haven't yet ordered it, I'm coming to kick your ASS, man.
Phillip Zerbo wrote: > So, Dick, what is the best Dark Star, -ever-? "Oh, man, to hell with those > Hampton and Meadowlands shows, the best Dark Star -ever- is 10.26.89 MIAMI, > BROTHER!" So, OK, me, reaching out to his shoulder, more to steady him than > anything...."Dude, 10.26.EIGHTY-9?, I'm talking about the best Dark Star EVER, > not on that TOUR!" "You heard what I said, MAN". I gave him like four > opportnities to "adjust" his perspective, but no. With Pam Settle as my > Presidential witness, that is the "Best Dark Star Ever." Discuss amongst > yourselves.
'Tis true! I also asked him if he was for real about this DS being the best ever, and he was adament about it. It kinda conflicted with his later statement to me that he never ever listens to the crap from the 80's and 90's. Then I asked him what his favorite Dew was, and he said that was impossible to answer and that's like picking your best orgasm ever. Then I told him how the 12/2/73 is my favorite, and I described the audiance reaction to it, which he was very much into hearing about: Several people got up and fled the Music Hall when Jerry broke into that Dew shrieking out : "I can't handle this!" as the rest of us were in a state of paralysis/bliss.
Later, I asked him to sign my new DP14 CD, and he had trouble spelling my name, writing: " To Ram (instead of Pam), especially gd strange to feel so familiar". I listened to him ramble on about all sorts of things, including how great his sound system was at home (!), and how he's gotta keep the music on at high volumes all the time. Hey, I can relate! :) He was very down to earth, and thanked me for being theraputic, as he apparently thinks he is unpopular. He asked my permission for a kiss even. A real gentleman!
So who's got that 10/26/89?
Pam
PS Later, Phillip and I did a comparison listen to the 2 Dews on DP14. Oh yeah, the 12/2 clearly rules!
> I'll let the prez narrate from here, but other highlights of the evening > included a bizarre exchange during "Q&A" where:
> * September 73 was denegrated as if it were a disease: "September 73 is the > worst bullshit excuse for music that I've ever heard in my LIFE, man." Uh OK, > "next question!"
> * Get ready for the 80s and 90s. Dick was overboard apologetic that "this is > the last 70s you'll see in a long, long while, gotta keep the buying masses > happy." Silly me, I made the aparently criminal suggestion that, if he was in > the 80s anyway, that he consider such things as 6.20.83 ("someone ELSE has > control of that, BRO!"), 11.1.85 ("Bunch of horseshit garbage, BRO"), 4.4.85, > 7.19.87, 6.25.85, et cetera... <SNL Scotish Store Skit> "If it isn't 70s, its > CRAP!</SNL Scotish Store Skit>, but that is what the public wants, ya KNOW?!?
> * Me: "So, Dick, saw you at the Phil & Phriends gigs in April up at the BAR... > I'm off to Merriweather to see those Phish guys tomorrow..." Dick: "DAMN, I > wish I was doing that instead of doing this jive "Dicks Picks" mombo... fuckin' > 38 minute VIOLA LEE BLUES dude, Trey kicks my ASS, and Kevin Shapiro is a cool > dude that I trade tapes with, TABOOT, TABOOT!" Gotcha, Dick.
> The prez sure got his attention, though, as she was a couple rows back Jerry > side for the shows-o-de-release, 11.30 & 12.1.73... "Damn, I wish *I* was at > those shows!"
> So, to sum up: Venue: by the beach, lots o salt air, good grub, low-grade > Scotch. Show: Some band, with Buddy Cage on pedal steel. They were kinda cute, > but not really anything to pay attention to. Dick: having a REAL good time > thank you. DP14: Buy it and buy it now, if you have read this far and haven't > yet ordered it, I'm coming to kick your ASS, man.
I've got 10.26.89 on CDR.... it's an FOB-dAUD, and it sounds GREAT and it's not cut and spliced like the soundboard copy that's been floating around for years.... if someone has 10.11.89 or 10.9.89 on CD i'd be glad to make copies of what i have or seed a tree/vine.
> Phillip Zerbo <pze...@aol.com> wrote: > : I'll let the prez narrate from here, but other highlights of the evening > : included a bizarre exchange during "Q&A" where:
> : * September 73 was denegrated as if it were a disease: "September 73 is the > : worst bullshit excuse for music that I've ever heard in my LIFE, man." Uh OK, > : "next question!"
> I have to say that I think the "Dead with Horns" from 73 (was that in > September) are vastly overrated. I have yet to hear a show where Martin > Fierro plays in tune, and the horns really don't add much (if anything) to > the songs they play on. Great idea, lousy execution.
I agree - especially the out of tune, off-key horn playing on many of the versions of Truckin'. One thing I think that was a good addition was the flute in a couple of the versions of WRS. The WRS Prelude is definitely enhanced with that flute in a couple of those shows 9/11 comes immediately to mind.
}From: "Mitch Gilbert" <mgilb...@pdit.com> }Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 16:45:57 GMT }Scratchie <upset...@ziplink.net> wrote in message }news:%d3h3.1261$6M6.390196@news.shore.net... }> Phillip Zerbo <pze...@aol.com> wrote: }> : I'll let the prez narrate from here, but other highlights of the evening }> : included a bizarre exchange during "Q&A" where:> }> : * September 73 was denegrated as if it were a disease: "September 73 isthe }> : worst bullshit excuse for music that I've ever heard in my LIFE, man."Uh OK, }> : "next question!"> } }> I have to say that I think the "Dead with Horns" from 73 (was that in }> September) are vastly overrated. I have yet to hear a show where Martin }> Fierro plays in tune, and the horns really don't add much (if anything) to }> the songs they play on. Great idea, lousy execution. } }I agree - especially the out of tune, off-key horn playing on many of the }versions of Truckin'. One thing I think that was a good addition was the }flute in a couple of the versions of WRS. The WRS Prelude is definitely }enhanced with that flute in a couple of those shows 9/11 comes immediately }to mind. } }Mitch
Me three.
I've had 9/15/73 in my car for a month because I'm too lazy to change it, and everytime I listen to it, it reminds me of that cheesy Phil and Friends where the sax player played Jerry's leads (though I could only listen to that once).
Interesting idea, just didn't work, leave the saxes in jazz.
: }Scratchie <upset...@ziplink.net> wrote in message
: }news:%d3h3.1261$6M6.390196@news.shore.net... : }> Phillip Zerbo <pze...@aol.com> wrote: : }> : I'll let the prez narrate from here, but other highlights of the : evening : }> : included a bizarre exchange during "Q&A" where:> : }> : * September 73 was denegrated as if it were a disease: "September 73 : isthe : }> : worst bullshit excuse for music that I've ever heard in my LIFE, : man."Uh OK, : }> : "next question!"> : } : }> I have to say that I think the "Dead with Horns" from 73 (was that in : }> September) are vastly overrated. I have yet to hear a show where Martin : }> Fierro plays in tune, and the horns really don't add much (if anything) : to : }> the songs they play on. Great idea, lousy execution. : } : }I agree - especially the out of tune, off-key horn playing on many of the : }versions of Truckin'. One thing I think that was a good addition was the : }flute in a couple of the versions of WRS. The WRS Prelude is definitely : }enhanced with that flute in a couple of those shows 9/11 comes immediately : }to mind. : } : }Mitch
: I've had 9/15/73 in my car for a month because I'm too lazy to change it, : and everytime I listen to it, it reminds me of that cheesy Phil and Friends : where the sax player played Jerry's leads (though I could only listen to : that once).
I laughed out loud when i first heard the horns in Truckin'... they sound ridiculous; i don't think the boys put much thought into the horn arrangments.
I don't think there are many Dead songs that could benefit from horns, though, except for Weather Report--that flute is *perfect* for the intro. I also dig the horns in Stella blue.
: Interesting idea, just didn't work, leave the saxes in jazz.
Not sure i'm with you on this one. Take a listen to 3/30/90 and 9/10/91 w/Branford Marsalis.
I don't know about it being the "best ever"...lots of competition from '69, '72, '74 in that category. But, it is the longest post 70s Dark Star they ever played.
>Interesting idea, just didn't work, leave the saxes in jazz.
Try 9/17/73.....The jam that comes out of Let It Grow before it segues into Stella is AWESOME! I do agree that some of those horns don't really fit in at times but there are other times when Fiero & Ellis are blowing some great stuff!
Also, I think Clarence, Branford, Ornette & Murray sound great on the tapes I have. I was also lucky enough to see Branford twice & Murray once w/ The Dead & I thought they were great. They all added their own unique "flavor" to the music & in some cases blew my mind. Throw on 2/23/93 w/ Ornette. The Space through the end of the show kicks!!
>I have to say that I think the "Dead with Horns" from 73 (was that in >> September) are vastly overrated. I have yet to hear a show where Martin >> Fierro plays in tune, and the horns really don't add much (if anything) to >> the songs they play on. Great idea, lousy execution.
>I agree - especially the out of tune, off-key horn playing on many of the >versions of Truckin'.
Try 9/17/73.....The jam that comes out of Let It Grow before it segues into Stella is AWESOME! I do agree that some of those horns don't really fit in at times but there are other times when Fiero & Ellis are blowing some great stuff!
On a different horn note, I think Clarence, Branford, Ornette & Murray sound great on the tapes I have. I was also lucky enough to see Branford twice & Murray once w/ The Dead & I thought they were great. They all added their own unique "flavor" to the music & in some cases blew my mind. Throw on 2/23/93 w/ Ornette. The Space through the end of the show kicks!!
Mark Henteleff wrote: > I don't know about it being the "best ever"...lots of competition > from '69, '72, '74 in that category. But, it is the longest > post 70s Dark Star they ever played.
Haberberger, George wrote: > I've had 9/15/73 in my car for a month because I'm too lazy to change it, > and everytime I listen to it, it reminds me of that cheesy Phil and Friends > where the sax player played Jerry's leads (though I could only listen to > that once).
> Interesting idea, just didn't work, leave the saxes in jazz.
Dave Ellis, Branford Marsalis and I had a good laugh over that one.
10/26/89 might be the best Dark Star of the 80's (only seven performances or so as I recall), but please don't encourage Dick to release more post 70's stuff. I have copies of plenty of stellar-sounding performances from the 80's and 90's which pale in comparison to pre-break material.
At some point in every Dead show (whatever the era) there is something magical in the music never to be repeated, and for that I applaud the Dead and enjoy listening to the archival record. What I will take with me to my grave is the memory of the musical synergy created by the Dead in their prime (DP 14 for example).
Forget the 80's Dick, give us the cleansed and rinsed 11/8/69 for DP 15!
On Dead with horns, David Gans has supplied us with a nice sample of an experiment best laid to rest - I've had sufficient, thanks.
> I've got 10.26.89 on CDR.... > it's an FOB-dAUD, and it sounds GREAT and it's not cut and spliced like the > soundboard copy that's been floating around for years.... > if someone has 10.11.89 or 10.9.89 on CD i'd be glad to make copies of what i > have or seed a tree/vine.
> but i'll do it for Pam for blanks and postage:)
Hey Captain,
On second thought, I see that this is the best quality you've kindly offered, and in light of the quality of the music, I think I would like to go for this if it's OK.
Very spacey tonight, recovering from a late one at the DP thing, and just got home from work.
I don't care what anyone says: IMHO, the best Dark Star ever was at Woodstock 8/16/69 !!! Listen to it. The members of the band are the last opinions that should count on this 1) because they had a bad trip and 2) because any musician is going to be critical and biased with their own work and their own personal experiences (just like the listener)...
mglory wrote: > > I've got 10.26.89 on CDR.... > > it's an FOB-dAUD, and it sounds GREAT and it's not cut and spliced like the > > soundboard copy that's been floating around for years.... > > if someone has 10.11.89 or 10.9.89 on CD i'd be glad to make copies of what i > > have or seed a tree/vine.
> > but i'll do it for Pam for blanks and postage:)
> Hey Captain,
> On second thought, I see that this is the best quality you've kindly > offered, and in light of the quality of the music, I think I would like > to go for this if it's OK.
> Very spacey tonight, recovering from a late one at the DP thing, and > just got home from work.
}From: casa...@aol.com (Casable) }Subject: Re: 10.26.89 is the "Best Dark Star EVER"... }Date: 08 Jul 1999 22:42:55 GMT } }>Interesting idea, just didn't work, leave the saxes in jazz. } }Try 9/17/73.....The jam that comes out of Let It Grow before it segues into }Stella is AWESOME! I do agree that some of those horns don't really fit in at }times but there are other times when Fiero & Ellis are blowing some great }stuff!
Aha, on my list to track down.
} }Also, I think Clarence, Branford, Ornette & Murray sound great on the tapes I }have. I was also lucky enough to see Branford twice & Murray once w/ The Dead & }I thought they were great. They all added their own unique "flavor" to the }music & in some cases blew my mind. Throw on 2/23/93 w/ Ornette. The Space }through the end of the show kicks!!
Oh yeah, I keep forgetting there are dead shows after 1974...
Also broadcast as GD Hour 255 Gans referred to it as "the musical launching pad" crisp un-cut soundboard.
The Estimated ~ Blow Away {which was broadcast right before Dark Star in this GD Hour} were no slouches either.
GD Hour 256 the following week was amazing as well, beautiful Dark Star Jam to open the show 2-18-71, then we shift ahead to 7-27-73 the infamous Watkins Glen Soundcheck where the boys perform a _30 _minute _jam from a 'dead' start which goes into the outer limits of the universe. : : )
On Thu, 08 Jul 1999 15:12:59 GMT, Scratchie <upset...@ziplink.net
>: So, Dick, what is the best Dark Star, -ever-? "Oh, man, to hell with those >: Hampton and Meadowlands shows, the best Dark Star -ever- is 10.26.89 MIAMI, >: BROTHER!" So, OK, me, reaching out to his shoulder, more to steady him than >: anything...."Dude, 10.26.EIGHTY-9?, I'm talking about the best Dark Star EVER, >: not on that TOUR!" "You heard what I said, MAN". I gave him like four >: opportnities to "adjust" his perspective, but no. With Pam Settle as my >: Presidential witness, that is the "Best Dark Star Ever." Discuss amongst >: yourselves.
>Discuss, hell! Does that mean he's going to release it as a DP? Definitely >the best Dark Star of the 80s, for whatever that's worth.
Dunno, but I've heard comments that it won't happen because of how ragged Jerry's voice was. If you can image Elmer Fudd singing "Daaaaawk Staw cwashes..."
And I thought 9-11-73, with Phil's bone-rattling transition from Dark Star to Morning Dew was a fine piece of music.
pze...@aol.com (Phillip Zerbo) wrote: }... and other wanderings in the mind of Dick Latvala. }I'll let the prez narrate from here, but other highlights of the evening }included a bizarre exchange during "Q&A" where: } }* September 73 was denegrated as if it were a disease: "September 73 is the }worst bullshit excuse for music that I've ever heard in my LIFE, man." Uh OK, }"next question!"
Here's what Dick had to say about 9/73 a while back, presumably when he was sober, or at least closer to it:
This being the best year of all-time, as far as uniqueness and jamming and variety are concerned, I must say that this is a very brief over-all attempt at putting some kind of order to the immensity of brilliance delivered during this year. Also, this is to be considered a work in progress please, and NOT anything resembling a final say on my part. Besides, there are quite a few shows that I need to hear again before I can consider this to be competent. With all these reserve clauses intact, here we go:
<snip>
8) That takes us up to the September run. (we really do not need to get into the soundcheck dealy right!!) Well right away 9/8/73 sticks out begging for attention. Even the night before (9/7/73) had fairly thrilling versions of TLEO, Jack Straw, PITB, WRS-
>Let it Grow.There is not a weak moment from "Truckin' "
through the ending tune "Sugar Magnolia". Even as good as this night must sound, the following night things really explode. I really can't put my finger on it because from the songlist, there is nothing apparently compelling. Well, you guys will soon find out what I mean, since I intend to release this one whenever the time is right.
9) The 9/11/73-Williamsburg, Va. show is another favorite of mine. Well actually it isn't a favorite in the sense of the whole show, but it certainly has one of the finest examples of the famous medley "Dark Star->Morning Dew". (which, BTW, I find the 9/10/74- Alexandra Palace to be one of the highest of the high versions!!!) For the remainder of this month, I will have to pass on since I have never been able to get past the horns.
There is something especially stand-outish about that Miami Darkstar. I think it had to do with this being some of the early "Midi" work for the band. I'm not sure, but I think that tour was really the first time that they really started to play w/midi sounds in their songs. I know that Brent used it well before (as it is native to Keys) and I think I remember hearing Jerry and Bob use it during space in the spring and summer of '89 (didn't jerry use a black Strat that was Midi equiped for space then...? anyone??). In that Darkstar you can hear all sorts of crap....horns of every variety....bells, whistles, pipe organs, percussion..and some stuff that I can't place. Some of that is what makes it so good. When they calm down and start to go into the riff for the 2nd verse...very, very nice moment.
As for Horns w/the Dead. I love it. The '73 stuff makes me laugh, but it does have some moments. Branford, damn...he just sounds like he rehearsed for years with them, though he didn't. I always wondered what his brother thought of that.....I bet he frownded upon it. "Not close to REAL Jazz"....I can hear him say. The Ornette shows...I have only heard the Mardi Gras 2-23-93 and I thought it was very good. I do like the David Murray (9-22-93) gig. The end of Estimated is like a dual between Bobby and the Sax. The super low tones that David produces durning Darkstar are funky. It really gives the music a strange texture. It's not as synchronized as Branfords stuff, but it's out there man... way out there.
> }... and other wanderings in the mind of Dick Latvala. > }I'll let the prez narrate from here, but other highlights of the evening > }included a bizarre exchange during "Q&A" where: > } > }* September 73 was denegrated as if it were a disease: "September 73 is the > }worst bullshit excuse for music that I've ever heard in my LIFE, man." Uh OK, > }"next question!"
> Here's what Dick had to say about 9/73 a while back, presumably when he > was sober, or at least closer to it:
> This being the best year of all-time, as far as uniqueness and > jamming and variety are concerned, I must say that this is a very > brief over-all attempt at putting some kind of order to the > immensity of brilliance delivered during this year. Also, this is to > be considered a work in progress please, and NOT anything > resembling a final say on my part. Besides, there are quite a few > shows that I need to hear again before I can consider this to be > competent. With all these reserve clauses intact, here we go:
> <snip>
> 8) That takes us up to the September run. (we really do not need > to get into the soundcheck dealy right!!) Well right away 9/8/73 > sticks out begging for attention. Even the night before (9/7/73) > had fairly thrilling versions of TLEO, Jack Straw, PITB, WRS- > >Let it Grow.There is not a weak moment from "Truckin' " > through the ending tune "Sugar Magnolia". Even as good as this > night must sound, the following night things really explode. I > really can't put my finger on it because from the songlist, there is > nothing apparently compelling. Well, you guys will soon find out > what I mean, since I intend to release this one whenever the time > is right.
> 9) The 9/11/73-Williamsburg, Va. show is another favorite of > mine. Well actually it isn't a favorite in the sense of the whole > show, but it certainly has one of the finest examples of the famous > medley "Dark Star->Morning Dew". (which, BTW, I find the > 9/10/74- Alexandra Palace to be one of the highest of the high > versions!!!) For the remainder of this month, I will have to pass > on since I have never been able to get past the horns.
}From: Nick Georges <ngeor...@infonow.com> }Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 11:22:23 -0600
ok, now for my $.02......
}There is something especially stand-outish about that Miami Darkstar. I think it }had to do with this being some of the early "Midi" work for the band. I'm not }sure, but I think that tour was really the first time that they really started to }play w/midi sounds in their songs. I know that Brent used it well before (as it }is native to Keys) and I think I remember hearing Jerry and Bob use it during }space in the spring and summer of '89 (didn't jerry use a black Strat that was }Midi equiped for space then...? anyone??). ~snip~
I agree, the Miami 89 Star is great...in fact, the 1989 fall tour was probably my favorite fall tour that I got to see. IMHO....the 10/16/89 DS edges that one out for the real jewel of that fall tour. Especially, the jam that follows it into space....epic journey. However, I think the Playin jam in that same second set contains maybe what is the best Jerry MIDI(flute) solo of that tour.
>Dunno, but I've heard comments that it won't > happen because of how ragged Jerry's voice > was. If you can image Elmer Fudd singing > "Daaaaawk Staw cwashes..."
Funny, I've always called 12-31-90 the "Elmer Fudd Dark Star", but as Robin Williams did Elmer Fudd doing Bruce Springsteen's "Fire".
OK, I dug it out for today's listening ... a fairly unexciting version (especially compared with the 4/27/69 I had in the car), and Jerry's voice sucked. Best ever? I sneer at the very notion.
zagef...@zearthlinkz.zcomz (Andy Gefen) wrote: }OK, I dug it out for today's listening ... a fairly unexciting version }(especially compared with the 4/27/69 I had in the car), and Jerry's }voice sucked. Best ever? I sneer at the very notion.
I also checked out 10.26.89 II last night. Thoroughly uninspired, unfocused, and uninteresting. Dick must have been WAYsted to say such a thing. I've had DP 11 iii in the car all week, and *that* is a Dark Star. Not necessarily the best, but certainly the Real Deal.
I believe that was also my first encounter with the rat-turd of a song called "Blow Away". Ugh!!! Bleechhh!!!
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