60-CD Europe '72 box set to be released?
Light Into Ashes
22).
My first thought was, "This has to be a hoax..."
But here it is:
DEAD REACH BACK TO LEGENDARY 1972 TOUR FOR MASSIVE BOX SET
Due in fall, the 60-plus CD release includes every show from European
trek.
On April 1st, 1972, the Grateful Dead arrived in Britain for the
opening dates of their first European tour. The timing was perfect -
"the feast of fools," guitarist Bob Weir says, laughing. "There was a
challenge for us, playing for people not familiar with what we were up
to. But we were ready for fresh ears...we were hot."...
In the fall, the tour will be released by Rhino as a limited-edition
beast: 22 shows on more than 60 CDs. The lavish set, available by pre-
order from the Dead's website, will cost over $400 and is
unprecedented even by their archive-box standards.
"By the time we're finished, we'll have put two years into this," says
producer David Lemieux, who expects mixing and mastering to wrap by
June. "If there was ever a tour that needed a complete release, it was
Europe '72. It's one of the top three tours the Dead ever did, and
there's a pristine 16-track recording of every show..."
"I remember that tour clearly," says bassist Phil Lesh, noting that no
one in the band had been to Europe before. [SIC] "In Hamburg, we
played in the hall where Brahms played. In Paris, I literally felt the
spirits of Chopin and Debussy. I think that made us play better. I
remember being on..."
"Someone would catch fire, and that would spread," Bob Weir says. "I'd
catch a riff everyone coalesced around. Then someone else would come
up with something that took us another way. It was a collective flash
- time to move on."
The Dead were in dramatic transition that spring, emboldened by the
jazzy ambitions of new pianist Keith Godchaux. "It was amazing how
tuned in he was to our music," Lesh says. "In Paris, he played like a
god."
The European tour was also the Dead's last with ailing singer-organist
Ron 'Pigpen' McKernan, who died in 1973. "He didn't have as much
energy as before," Weir says, "but he was trying his best to deal with
it."...
Lemieux says other Dead tours deserve full release, such as the fall
of '73 and spring 1990: "It's such a diverse band. You can do boxes
from '72 and '89 back-to-back, and there's nothing similar about them,
except it's Grateful Dead music."
"It all boils down to, 'Is there a story there?'" says Weir. "If we
can find an era like this, with a story line and development - and I
have a feeling there is - there would be merit in doing this again."
WeReo_BoY
Kirk McElhearn <kirkmc (at) mac (dot) com> wrote:
> Thinking more about this as I spin 4/26/72....
>
> There's a total of 22 shows in the tour, and there's only two shows
> officially released (4/26 and 5/24), plus the 4-CD England box. So
> there'd be a lot of new stuff here (at least new in the sense of
> cleaned up and remastered). In spite of the price, this'd be a sweet
> set to have...
>
> Kirk
MY GOD....have you NO LiFE AT AWL???
--
"Then I started having sex with one of the guys. He was kinda good-
looking and blond and legal age. And he had a real nice ass. There was
some play; and he liked me too and even initiated the play. I put my
finger in his ass and he shit awl over my hand." - Scott Lifshine,
June 2nd 2009
yoker
> This is an article from this week's Rolling Stone (Feb 3 '11, page
> 22).
> My first thought was, "This has to be a hoax..."
> But here it is:
>
> DEAD REACH BACK TO LEGENDARY 1972 TOUR FOR MASSIVE BOX SET
> Due in fall, the 60-plus CD release includes every show from European
> trek.
>
> On April 1st, 1972, the Grateful Dead arrived in Britain for the
> opening dates of their first European tour. The timing was perfect -
> "the feast of fools," guitarist Bob Weir says, laughing. "There was a
> challenge for us, playing for people not familiar with what we were up
Hoax.
Questions arise:
What about the existing releases from this tour: Europe 72, Hundred
Year Hall, & Rockin' The Rhein? Will Rockin' be re-released without
the bonus tracks on disc 2? Will Hundred Year Hall be released as a
full show? Will Europe 72 be used as a 2 disc sampler such as the FW
69 3 disc set? Will less expensive Download FLAC, ALAC, mp3 versions
be available? Is a bonus disc going to be included with early
dead.net orders? Are there any video discs included, Blu-ray and/or
DVD?
Who is doing the mixing?
*If Weir said this, it's one of the reasons why the recordings from
this tour are so popular,imo.
yoker
A link to it in your original post would have been helpful, although
not necessary. Thank you for posting this article/story/rumor/hoax.
yoker
>
> So wait and see...
>
I will.
I think I read a much less detailed story in RS about this subject a
few years ago, sometime after the FW 69 Complete was released.
bzl...@aaool.com
(dot) com> wrote:
>Thinking more about this as I spin 4/26/72....
>
>There's a total of 22 shows in the tour, and there's only two shows
>officially released (4/26 and 5/24), plus the 4-CD England box. So
>there'd be a lot of new stuff here (at least new in the sense of
>cleaned up and remastered). In spite of the price, this'd be a sweet
>set to have...
>
>Kirk
$400 doesn't seem out of line at all. They listed the Warlocks shows
at $50 each, and the Winterland '73 and '77 shows at $33 each.
Casey Jones
> On 2011-01-19 14:37:06 +0100, bzl...@aaool.com said:
>
> >> There's a total of 22 shows in the tour, and there's only two shows
> >> officially released (4/26 and 5/24), plus the 4-CD England box. So
> >> there'd be a lot of new stuff here (at least new in the sense of
> >> cleaned up and remastered). In spite of the price, this'd be a sweet
> >> set to have...
>
> >> Kirk
>
> > $400 doesn't seem out of line at all. They listed the Warlocks shows
> > at $50 each, and the Winterland '73 and '77 shows at $33 each.
>
> steep. And comparing with classical music (which I buy a lot of), it's
> exteremely expensive (per disc).
>
> I'd go for it anyway, though.
>
> Kirk
> --
>
> Kirkville --http://www.mcelhearn.com
> Writings about more than just Macs
> Take Control of iTunes 10: The FAQ:http://www.mcelhearn.com/itunes
Right before Road Trips subscriptions were up at dead.net, someone
posted on The 30 Days of the Dead thread that someone in charge of
marketing for GDM was on Tales From The Golden Road saying the Dead
were going to start offering subscriptions as well as a massive Europe
'72 box being planned for 2011.
bzl...@aaool.com
I wish they'd sell 24/96 downloads...
Kirk McElhearn at dot
> I wish they'd sell 24/96 downloads...
How much of a difference would it make on recordings mastered from
analog tapes nearly 40 years old?
Kirk
--
Kirkville -- http://www.mcelhearn.com
sweetbac
Think about it though...if most heads had one
request for a box set, this would be it.
How would ya top this?
Impossible.
What needs to happen is a pay download/stream service
for every digitized GD show in the vault.
$8-10 a month for unlimited streaming subscription...
or lets say $8 a show per FLAC download.
Kirk McElhearn at dot
> I'm calling hoax until we hear otherwise.
> Think about it though...if most heads had one
> request for a box set, this would be it.
> How would ya top this?
> Impossible.
Yep. And after this, it's all downhill...
> What needs to happen is a pay download/stream service
> for every digitized GD show in the vault.
> $8-10 a month for unlimited streaming subscription...
> or lets say $8 a show per FLAC download.
I'd probably pay for a streaming subscription, but that much? $120 a
year, every year? Tough to justify unless there's a lot of stuff
available that is better than the SBDs that circulate.
yoker
THIS HOAX or RUMOR IS JUST ABOUT ...
*TRUE*!
I just read my email and got an email from dead.net:
As one of the Grateful Dead’s biggest fans, and as our way of thanking
you for subscribing to the Road Trips series...
We want to give you a heads up to keep your eyes peeled for a major
announcement from Dead.net, today at 12pm PST.
Something BIG is coming.
It might just blow your mind.
Dead.net 3400 West Olive Ave. Burbank CA 91505
Kirk McElhearn at dot
> As one of the Grateful Dead’s biggest fans, and as our way of thanking
> you for subscribing to the Road Trips series...
>
> We want to give you a heads up to keep your eyes peeled for a major
> announcement from Dead.net, today at 12pm PST.
>
> Something BIG is coming.
>
> It might just blow your mind.
Dude, I'll have to check the site at 9pm my time... Way cool if it's true.
I didn't subscribe to the RT series, but I've bought plenty; I'm
surprised they didn't send emails to everyone.
Kirk McElhearn at dot
Futzing around with URLs using their standard scheme, I found it:
http://store.dead.net/live-shows/europe-72-complete-recordings
Awesome... Gonna order asap.
3jane.
> of '73 and spring 1990: "It's such a diverse band. You can do boxes
> from '72 and '89 back-to-back, and there's nothing similar about them,
> except it's Grateful Dead music."
> "It all boils down to, 'Is there a story there?'" says Weir. "If we
> can find an era like this, with a story line and development - and I
> have a feeling there is - there would be merit in doing this again."
Well Lemeiux says it's one of the top three tours they ever did (and
apparently one of the best recorded), I'm sure everyone agrees with
that at least. Then he mentions fall 73 (probably lots af agreement
there too) and spring 90, which I find kind of surprising. I'd rather
have spring 77 or one of the 1970 tours than spring 1990-it sounds
like a marketing thing to drum up interest in the later years since
that's what they have a lot of-llok at the 89 dvds out there.
That said, the Europe 72 box set looks fantastic, though pricey as
hell. I can think of a few people it would be the perfect gift for-
how to bowl over a seasoned deadhead in one fell swoop...
Kirk McElhearn at dot
> Well Lemeiux says it's one of the top three tours they ever did (and
> apparently one of the best recorded), I'm sure everyone agrees with
> that at least. Then he mentions fall 73 (probably lots af agreement
> there too) and spring 90, which I find kind of surprising. I'd rather
> have spring 77 or one of the 1970 tours than spring 1990-it sounds
> like a marketing thing to drum up interest in the later years since
> that's what they have a lot of-llok at the 89 dvds out there.
Heck, if they sell enough of this, maybe they'll do a spring 77; I'm
sure that'd be a good seller, given the general familiarity people have
with many of the shows.
Andrew
> On Jan 18, 10:37 pm, Light Into Ashes <thehor...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Lemieux says other Dead tours deserve full release, such as the fall
> > of '73 and spring 1990: "It's such a diverse band. You can do boxes
> > from '72 and '89 back-to-back, and there's nothing similar about them,
> > except it's Grateful Dead music."
> > "It all boils down to, 'Is there a story there?'" says Weir. "If we
> > can find an era like this, with a story line and development - and I
> > have a feeling there is - there would be merit in doing this again."
>
> Well Lemeiux says it's one of the top three tours they ever did (and
> apparently one of the best recorded), I'm sure everyone agrees with
> that at least. Then he mentions fall 73 (probably lots af agreement
> there too) and spring 90, which I find kind of surprising. I'd rather
> have spring 77 or one of the 1970 tours than spring 1990-it sounds
> like a marketing thing to drum up interest in the later years since
> that's what they have a lot of-llok at the 89 dvds out there.
Yeah, I did a double-take when I read that too. On a list of all the
Dead tours ever, Spring '90 is certainly on there. I'll say that much.
On a list of the greatest Dead tours ever, that had better be an
awfully long list for Spring '90 to make an appearance. I'd buy your
interpretation of Lemiuex's comment as well.
> That said, the Europe 72 box set looks fantastic, though pricey as
> hell. I can think of a few people it would be the perfect gift for-
> how to bowl over a seasoned deadhead in one fell swoop...
Why yes, I would love a set... Thanks for thinking of me!
Kirk McElhearn at dot
"As a special bonus, the first 3,000 boxed sets issued will be
personalized editions. This unprecedented release will be limited to
orders placed, with a maximum of 7,200 boxes produced."
I wonder what "personalized" means - your name on it? Signed by Bob and Phil?
Walter Karmazyn
> On 2011-01-19 16:36:12 +0100, bzl...@aaool.com said:
>
>> I wish they'd sell 24/96 downloads...
>
> How much of a difference would it make on recordings mastered from
> analog tapes nearly 40 years old?
>
> Kirk
It would make a difference, regardless of the age of the material. I'm
noticing that the upcoming release will be mastered to HDCD specs, which
is 20 bit. So, I'm venturing that the analog to digital conversion will
be 24/192, which is the current standard. 24 bit sampling comes closer
to the real thing, esp in the higher frequencies.
W
Kirk McElhearn at dot
>>> I wish they'd sell 24/96 downloads...
>>
>> How much of a difference would it make on recordings mastered from
>> analog tapes nearly 40 years old?
>
> It would make a difference, regardless of the age of the material. I'm
> noticing that the upcoming release will be mastered to HDCD specs,
> which is 20 bit. So, I'm venturing that the analog to digital
> conversion will be 24/192, which is the current standard. 24 bit
> sampling comes closer to the real thing, esp in the higher frequencies.
And you can hear those higher frequencies? :-)
Randy G
> They say:
>
> "As a special bonus, the first 3,000 boxed sets issued will be
> personalized editions. This unprecedented release will be limited to
> orders placed, with a maximum of 7,200 boxes produced."
>
> I wonder what "personalized" means - your name on it? Signed by Bob and Phil?
>
> Kirk
>
> --
>
> Writings about more than just Macs
> Take Control of iTunes 10: The FAQ:http://www.mcelhearn.com/itunes
The set lists were hand written by ..... shit I forgot her name. Jane?
Ann? Gladys?
Walter Karmazyn
> On 2011-01-19 18:42:55 +0100, Walter Karmazyn <walterk...@yahoo.com>
> said:
>
>>>> I wish they'd sell 24/96 downloads...
>>>
>>> How much of a difference would it make on recordings mastered from
>>> analog tapes nearly 40 years old?
>>
>> It would make a difference, regardless of the age of the material. I'm
>> noticing that the upcoming release will be mastered to HDCD specs,
>> which is 20 bit. So, I'm venturing that the analog to digital
>> conversion will be 24/192, which is the current standard. 24 bit
>> sampling comes closer to the real thing, esp in the higher frequencies.
>
> And you can hear those higher frequencies? :-)
>
> Kirk
Not at all, I don't hear anything above 10k or thereabouts, as tested by
a local company my venue has an association with, Meyers Sound Labs.
Still, there are a bunch of folks who can hear a lot of stuff I miss,
and the much higher sampling rate also enhances reproduction of the mid
and low fq I can hear. Overall, it's closer to analog than 16 bit and
imo, analog is where you want to be :-) .
W
gratefuljoe
> Well Lemeiux says it's one of the top three tours they ever did (and
> apparently one of the best recorded),
That is an interesting topic-the best Dead tours ever.
bt.etree is posting the Jan 1978 Californey Tour, that was a good one.
Light Into Ashes
from Rolling Stone magazine.
Personally I thought it was an elaborate hoax. Not only is over 60 CDs
outrageous, but the thing isn't even due for almost another year,
making this a very premature announcement... And financially, it seems
like Rhino would be better-advised to save shows from the tour as
'golden egg' releases in the future, rather than releasing them all at
once in an exorbitantly priced limited-edition set.
So I can't believe there's an actual website now! (Although for me at
least, it's still blank.)
I guess we have a long time to start saving up...
In the past, their box sets have been only 2-3 shows. It would be sad
(but understandable) to see the entire tour get pulled off the Archive
streams, and even sadder if shows aren't available to buy
individually....
DGDevin
"Kirk McElhearn" wrote in message
news:4d36b078$0$5394$ba4a...@reader.news.orange.fr...
> This said, $400 seems a bit steep, given the per-disc price of current
> sets.
It comes with a free sticker and mini-poster.
pbuzb...@yahoo.com
> Heck, if they sell enough of this, maybe they'll do a spring 77; I'm
> sure that'd be a good seller, given the general familiarity people have
> with many of the shows.
They have probably short-listed spring 90 since that was also recorded
in multitrack. Some of spring 77 reportedly isn't in the vault.
Pat Buzby
Chicago, IL
bzl...@aaool.com
I can hear it. I seem to have more sensitive hearing than most 50
year olds.
I find the difference between 24 and 16bit is most evident in the
bass.. just sounds fuller and more natural to me.
yoker
- This product is build to order; based on a 3,000 unit minimum and
all units ordered by April 1, 2011
- First 3,000 units will get a personalized version of the product
- Individually numbered limited edition to orders placed, 7,200
maximum.
A return to the "Fillmore West 1969 - The Complete Recordings" sell-
out problems and ebay high mark-up re-sellers.
Did they ever learn? I guess not.
That's a bummer, man.
sniffle, sniffle.
Light Into Ashes
http://www.dead.net/features/release-info/holy-s-it-s-complete-europe-72-box-over-60-discs
"Because you dared dream this might happen one day… Because you went
down to the Gypsy Woman and offered up your first-born to try to make
it happen… Because there are enough passionate Dead Heads at Rhino/GD
who thought it might be cool for this to happen… It’s happening!
Coming in September is a gargantuan, beautifully designed EUROPE ’72
MEGA-BOX SET containing ALL 22 SHOWS of what is arguably the greatest
tour the Grateful Dead ever played, on a whopping 60+ DISCS (over 70
hours of music!). Bet you didn’t see that comin’! ...
Through the years, there have been a few releases of material from the
Europe tour—starting with the 3-album Europe ’72 which knocked our
socks off in the fall of that year, and followed many years later by
material from a pair of German shows and the fantastic 4-CD Stepping
Out, culled from the group’s eight shows in England. Incredibly,
though, only one full show from the tour has come out previously: the
excellent 4/24 concert in Dusseldorf, Germany, released as Rockin’ the
Rhein in 2004.
Until now, that is. Jeffrey Norman, who has been the primary mixer of
Dead archival multi-track material for the past 15 years, has spent
many months toiling over the 16-track masters from the tour, and will
continue working on the mixes through the Winter and Spring, employing
the high-tech Plangent Processes transfer and restoration tools,
trying to get every show to sound “just exactly perfect” (as Bob Weir
says) for this release. You might think you’ve heard that intense
“Dark Star” > “Sugar Mag” > “Caution” from Copenhagen, but I guarantee
you’ve never heard it sound this alive! Mastering to HDCD specs was
two-time Grammy-winning engineer David Glasser of Airshow Mastering.
Needless to say, all the songs that turned up on previous Europe
compilations will be appear their proper show contexts, and in the
case of songs from the Europe ’72 album, without overdubs that were
added later (where possible).
The packaging is, as you might expect first rate. Each show is its own
Digipak, with its own liner notes by top Dead scholars (including
David Gans, Steve Silberman, and Nicholas Meriwether) and attendees of
some of the concerts, and many never-before-seen photos. Additionally,
there is an enormous book worthy of coffee table treatment featuring
hundreds more photos and a comprehensive essay by yours truly (Blair
Jackson). The box will also contain other memorabilia and ephemera
from the tour.
At $450, this clearly will not be a box for everyone. In fact, this
individually numbered boxed set will be limited to orders placed with
a maximum of 7,200 boxes produced. As a special bonus, the first 3,000
orders will receive a personalized copy. Due to the huge manufacturing
costs (wait 'til you see it! We're doing something unlike any other
boxed set release ever! It's exceptional!!), we need to hit 3,000
sales before we even go into production. If we don't reach 3,000 by
April 1st, the boxed set won't be able to happen. This isn't a gun-to-
your-head sales pitch. Rather, we want to be open with you about the
realities of this release's massive scope and ambition.
So dig deep, raid the penny jar, take a weekend job at Jack-in-the-
Box, beg your kindly ol’ grandma for some of your inheritance early…
Yes, it’s an extravagance, but jeez, you (or your loved one) deserve
it! This is way cool."
The order site adds that the set will include "every single note"
recorded on the tour:
"This unprecedented release will be limited to orders placed, with a
maximum of 7,200 boxes produced.
Additionally, to reward those loyal fans who have to wait until
September to receive the final box set, Dead.net will offer several
exclusive goodies over the coming months.
All shows included in their entirety.
This boxed set will not available in stores or from any other online
retailer – only at Dead.net.
Includes: 60+ discs, Book with Liner Notes, Replica Steamer Trunk Box
and other memorabilia
Price includes free domestic shipping.
Kirk McElhearn at dot
Not only that, but it seems that the order process doesn't work. It
definitely won't let international orders go through (it tells me to
choose a shipping option among the, well, zero shipping options
displayed), and it seems that some domestic orders don't work either.
Pretty much every time they've released a big set there have been order
problems.
Kirk
--
Kirkville -- http://www.mcelhearn.com
Edwin Hurwitz
Kirk McElhearn <kirkmc (at) mac (dot) com> wrote:
> DUDE! It's true!
>
> Futzing around with URLs using their standard scheme, I found it:
>
> http://store.dead.net/live-shows/europe-72-complete-recordings
>
> Awesome... Gonna order asap.
>
> Kirk
+1!
My credit card is ready. This is my favorite era, so I'm all over it. I
might have to go pay David Glasser a visit and see how it's going! He's
got a great job.
Edwin Hurwitz
<cbc129f5-47b8-4177...@e4g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>,
yoker <yok...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jan 18, 10:37 pm, Light Into Ashes <thehor...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > This is an article from this week's Rolling Stone (Feb 3 '11, page
> > 22).
> > My first thought was, "This has to be a hoax..."
> > But here it is:
> >
> > DEAD REACH BACK TO LEGENDARY 1972 TOUR FOR MASSIVE BOX SET
> > Due in fall, the 60-plus CD release includes every show from European
> > trek.
> >
> > On April 1st, 1972, the Grateful Dead arrived in Britain for the
> > opening dates of their first European tour. The timing was perfect -
> > "the feast of fools," guitarist Bob Weir says, laughing. "There was a
> > challenge for us, playing for people not familiar with what we were up
> > to. But we were ready for fresh ears...we were hot."...*
>
>
>
>
> Hoax.
>
> Questions arise:
> What about the existing releases from this tour: Europe 72, Hundred
> Year Hall, & Rockin' The Rhein? Will Rockin' be re-released without
> the bonus tracks on disc 2? Will Hundred Year Hall be released as a
> full show? Will Europe 72 be used as a 2 disc sampler such as the FW
> 69 3 disc set? Will less expensive Download FLAC, ALAC, mp3 versions
> be available? Is a bonus disc going to be included with early
> dead.net orders? Are there any video discs included, Blu-ray and/or
> DVD?
> Who is doing the mixing?
Jeffrey Norman is mixing and Boulder homie and firefighter David Glasser
is mastering at Airshow. It's going to sound great.
Edwin Hurwitz
Kirk McElhearn <kirkmc (at) mac (dot) com> wrote:
> On 2011-01-19 16:36:12 +0100, bzl...@aaool.com said:
>
> > I wish they'd sell 24/96 downloads...
>
> How much of a difference would it make on recordings mastered from
> analog tapes nearly 40 years old?
>
> Kirk
It could make a big difference. The GD recorded with good gear on decent
tape stock. If it's handled well (and Plangent technology transfer is
good handling), it could sound quite a bit better than anything we've
heard from that tour so far. Given that it's multitrack and not 2 tracks
that are the sources, there's an opportunity for quite high quality.
sweetbac
"Edwin Starkey Hurwitz" <ed...@indra.com> wrote in message
> I might have to go pay David Glasser a visit and see
> how it's going!
Any chance Dave G. can slide ya a promo copy and you
throw the FLAC files up on a public server?
Thanks, Ringo!
Edwin Hurwitz
Walter Karmazyn <walterk...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Actually, the bit depth has nothing to do with frequency response. It
has to do with dynamic range. The sampling rate determines frequency
response. So, I record at 44.1khz at 24 bit all the time and it sounds
great. I never record record at anything less than 24 bits, but sampling
frequency is a little bit more controversial. The Nyquist theorem states
that anything more than 2 times about the highest frequency you want to
reproduce is wasted and since no one hears much about 22khz, 44.1 should
cover it all. However, there are other issues, mostly having to do with
the brickwall filters necessary to keep the aliasing under control as
well as the math involved in DSP have lead some leading engineers to
opine that somewhere around 60khz is an optimum tradeoff. I've recorded
at 88.2 and 96khz and found an improvement over 44.1khz. Bob Katz is
considered an expert in this stuff and his book Mastering Audio, The Art
and the Science, is a classic and recommended reading to everyone. His
website, digido.com, is also very educational.
You are very right, though. It will make a big difference.
Edwin Hurwitz
Walter Karmazyn <walterk...@yahoo.com> wrote:
It also makes a difference when mixing, eq'ing, compressing, etc. Using
a higher sampling rate and bit depth keeps the math from rounding off
too much during all of the processes which keeps the fidelity intact.
Edwin
Edwin Hurwitz
bzl...@aaool.com wrote:
Bit depth has no influence on frequency response (within reason). you
can get just as much frequency resolution whether a signal is 16 bit or
24 bit. Sampling rate, on the other hand, has everything to do with
frequency response.
this guy has a good handle on the two:
http://www.tweakheadz.com/16_vs_24_bit_audio.htm
Edwin
Brad Greer
wrote:
Your contrast of bit depth versus sampling rate is spot on. Generally
speaking, going beyond 96 Khz is overkill - you've gone beyond any
capabilities of human hearing and generally ruled out brickwalling.
But is sure sounds impressive to say you recorded at 24/192 :)
>You are very right, though. It will make a big difference.
Agreed, assuming decent playback equipment.
Kirk McElhearn at dot
everything fixed.
bzl...@aaool.com
wrote:
That's the thing that keeps my HDCD player alive. Generally,
streaming sounds at least as good as silver discs (on my system), but
doing an A:B comparison of streaming vs. HDCD disc gives a noticeable
edge to the disc. It's gotta be those extra 4 bits.
bzl...@aaool.com
(dot) com> wrote:
>I was able to order this morning, Europe time. Seems like they got
>everything fixed.
>
>Kirk
not in Virginia. It's still (again?) hosed.
bzl...@aaool.com
wrote:
>In article <7seej6t5e3tq9v999...@4ax.com>,
Thanks! I think that is the clearest explanation/description I have
read.
Kirk McElhearn at dot
>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>> noticing that the upcoming release will be mastered to HDCD specs,
I've looked in the past, and just looked again, and I can only find one
HDCD player easily available here (Cambridge Audio blu-ray player,
€689), so that really doesn't make much of a difference. I don't listen
to CDs any more - I rip to my Mac - but I'd be curious to know if
there's a noticable difference.
BTW, the only HDCDs I've ever come across are Dead CDs. I review
classical CDs, and I've never seen any (but do see SACDs).
bzl...@aaool.com
(dot) com> wrote:
>
>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>> noticing that the upcoming release will be mastered to HDCD specs,
>
>I've looked in the past, and just looked again, and I can only find one
>HDCD player easily available here (Cambridge Audio blu-ray player,
>€689), so that really doesn't make much of a difference. I don't listen
>to CDs any more - I rip to my Mac - but I'd be curious to know if
>there's a noticable difference.
>
>BTW, the only HDCDs I've ever come across are Dead CDs. I review
>classical CDs, and I've never seen any (but do see SACDs).
>
>Kirk
A lot of bluegrass releases on Rounder and Sugar Hill are HDCD.
Whether or not that is still the case, I don't know, but it was pretty
prevalent 5 years ago.l
gwatts
> ...
>
> Bit depth has no influence on frequency response (within reason). you
> can get just as much frequency resolution whether a signal is 16 bit or
> 24 bit. Sampling rate, on the other hand, has everything to do with
> frequency response.
>
> this guy has a good handle on the two:
>
> http://www.tweakheadz.com/16_vs_24_bit_audio.htm
>
> Edwin
Another interesting article about sampling rates is by Jim Gamble,
http://www.gambleboards.com/Viewpoint.htm
It's more towards digital console sampling rates but the general theory
applies to all digitized signals.
Jim Gamble designed and supervised the construction of the consoles the
GD used and some of the descendant bands still use.
Edwin Hurwitz
gwatts <gwa...@frontiernet.net> wrote:
Nice link! I agree with what he says to a certain extent. It's certainly
true when comparing a Gamble console run by a competent engineer (those
things are like race cars, they like to run hot, but one slip up and
your gain structure runs off the track with a spectacular crash!).
I think that digital consoles have improved since the article was
written although maybe not in terms of what most large venues get. I'd
put my Metric Halo ULN-8 up against any analog console out there, but it
is apples and oranges.
thanks for the link!
Edwin Hurwitz
Kirk McElhearn <kirkmc (at) mac (dot) com> wrote:
> >>>>>> I'm
> >>>>>> noticing that the upcoming release will be mastered to HDCD specs,
>
> I've looked in the past, and just looked again, and I can only find one
> HDCD player easily available here (Cambridge Audio blu-ray player,
> €689), so that really doesn't make much of a difference. I don't listen
> to CDs any more - I rip to my Mac - but I'd be curious to know if
> there's a noticable difference.
>
> BTW, the only HDCDs I've ever come across are Dead CDs. I review
> classical CDs, and I've never seen any (but do see SACDs).
>
> Kirk
It does make me wonder why they didn't just release this on a hard
drive. It would have made a lot more sense.
Edwin
Edwin Hurwitz
bzl...@aaool.com wrote:
These days I'm doing most of my listening with a Grace 902 into a pair
of AGK 702s. What a great combination!
Edwin Hurwitz
"sweetbac" <swee...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Oh yeah, you betcha! I'll head down there with my laptop and start
streaming at 192khz!
sweetbac
"Edwin Hurwitz" <ed...@indra.com> wrote in message
> Oh yeah, you betcha! I'll head down there with my laptop
> and start streaming at 192khz!
Fo' Reals?
Could ya get this cat to start with the Paris show?
182hkj?....is that the MP3G shit?...whatEVER!
I'll leave that technical shit to you!
Walter Karmazyn
I'll bet it does! I'm currently looking around for a DAC to interface
between my hard drive and MX 117 preamp. Any suggestions? Sounds like
I could bypass the preamp with the 902 and run straight to the amps, but
I don't think I'm ready to go that route just yet, still have analog I
listen to.
W
band beyond description
> In article <4d384c04$0$7686$ba4a...@reader.news.orange.fr>,
> Kirk McElhearn <kirkmc (at) mac (dot) com> wrote:
>
>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>> noticing that the upcoming release will be mastered to HDCD specs,
>>
>> I've looked in the past, and just looked again, and I can only find one
>> HDCD player easily available here (Cambridge Audio blu-ray player,
>> there's a noticable difference.
>>
>> BTW, the only HDCDs I've ever come across are Dead CDs. I review
>> classical CDs, and I've never seen any (but do see SACDs).
>>
>> Kirk
>
> It does make me wonder why they didn't just release this on a hard
> drive. It would have made a lot more sense.
>
> Edwin
Now *that* is a great idea, but it probably never occurred to the record
company wankers as it would throw them out of work...it would take the GD
to shepherd something like that to fruition, but would even they be up for
it...?
--
Peace, Steve
Kirk McElhearn at dot
<shadowbo...@apocalypse.com> said:
>>
>> It does make me wonder why they didn't just release this on a hard
>> drive. It would have made a lot more sense.
>>
>> Edwin
>
> Now *that* is a great idea, but it probably never occurred to the record
> company wankers as it would throw them out of work...it would take the GD
> to shepherd something like that to fruition, but would even they be up for
> it...?
I've only seen that done for a couple of magazines: The New Yorker and
Playboy. I've yet to see music released like that.
In a way, it's risky; if the drive crashes, you don't have the music.
However, releasing on a flash drive would be more realistic. It's not
that expensive to get a 64 GB drive these days; certainly less than
what it costs for all that packaging.
Kirk McElhearn at dot
> I'll bet it does! I'm currently looking around for a DAC to interface
> between my hard drive and MX 117 preamp. Any suggestions? Sounds like
> I could bypass the preamp with the 902 and run straight to the amps,
> but I don't think I'm ready to go that route just yet, still have
> analog I listen to.
I've got a Cambridge Audio DacMagic, which is a very good, affordable
DAC. I don't have anything to compare it to, but when I inserted it
into my sound chain, it made a big difference.
Brad Greer
(dot) com> wrote:
>On 2011-01-22 06:19:51 +0100, band beyond description
><shadowbo...@apocalypse.com> said:
>
>>>
>>> It does make me wonder why they didn't just release this on a hard
>>> drive. It would have made a lot more sense.
>>>
>>> Edwin
>>
>> Now *that* is a great idea, but it probably never occurred to the record
>> company wankers as it would throw them out of work...it would take the GD
>> to shepherd something like that to fruition, but would even they be up for
>> it...?
>
>I've only seen that done for a couple of magazines: The New Yorker and
>Playboy. I've yet to see music released like that.
>
>In a way, it's risky; if the drive crashes, you don't have the music.
>However, releasing on a flash drive would be more realistic. It's not
>that expensive to get a 64 GB drive these days; certainly less than
>what it costs for all that packaging.
>
Just FLAC downloads with an option to purchase the booklet would work
for me. I have no need for 60 CDs (plus, if they released it as
lossless downloads we could get better than 16 bit audio).
Walter Karmazyn
> On 2011-01-22 03:49:12 +0100, Walter Karmazyn <walterk...@yahoo.com>
> said:
>
>> I'll bet it does! I'm currently looking around for a DAC to interface
>> between my hard drive and MX 117 preamp. Any suggestions? Sounds like
>> I could bypass the preamp with the 902 and run straight to the amps,
>> but I don't think I'm ready to go that route just yet, still have
>> analog I listen to.
>
> I've got a Cambridge Audio DacMagic, which is a very good, affordable
> DAC. I don't have anything to compare it to, but when I inserted it into
> my sound chain, it made a big difference.
>
> Kirk
Thanks, it is affordable and what caught my eye was multiple inputs (2
sp/dif or toslink, along with 1 usb), so I can run both hd and enhance
my cd/dvd player, which has a sp/dif output. Not all DACs I've looked
at offer that. Its specs are also impressive. Think I'll be reading
various reviews before coming to any decision, but this is now a front
runner.
W
marcman
> On 2011-01-22 06:19:51 +0100, band beyond description
>
>
>
> >> It does make me wonder why they didn't just release this on a hard
> >> drive. It would have made a lot more sense.
>
> >> Edwin
>
> > Now *that* is a great idea, but it probably never occurred to the record
> > company wankers as it would throw them out of work...it would take the GD
> > to shepherd something like that to fruition, but would even they be up for
> > it...?
>
> I've only seen that done for a couple of magazines: The New Yorker and
> Playboy. I've yet to see music released like that.
>
> In a way, it's risky; if the drive crashes, you don't have the music.
> However, releasing on a flash drive would be more realistic. It's not
> that expensive to get a 64 GB drive these days; certainly less than
> what it costs for all that packaging.
>
> Kirk
> --
>
> Writings about more than just Macs
> Take Control of iTunes 10: The FAQ:http://www.mcelhearn.com/itunes
This has been done. Not sure if this was the first time, but when I
was out in Indio for Phish Festival 8 they were selling the shows on
little mini drives rather than on CDs.
I think part of the deal here with the Europe set, is that many people
will actually want the packaging.
Now I also recall at some Ratdog and Phil shows that you can buy a
copy of that nights show before and during the show and get a
bracelet, then wait in line after the show to pick up your already
paid for copy of the show you just saw. It would occur to me that
considering the minimalistic packaging on *those* show CDs, a mini
thumb drive housing the show files would be a much better alternative
than actually burning the shows to CD. First and foremost it would
save time and get the line moving faster and the people out of the
venue quicker, and secondly it would cut down on waste. Those mini
thumb drives could be reused again once you get the files home and
onto your own hard drive. If they really wanted to get organized about
it, they could allow people to bring the old drives from previous
shows with them and if they turned them in, maybe even get a small
credit towards the cost of that night's show.
Edwin Hurwitz
Walter Karmazyn <walterk...@yahoo.com> wrote:
The 902 also has analog inputs, balanced and unbalanced. I also like the
USB connection because now that Pro Tools is freed up from Avid/Dig
hardware, I can use it for mixing!
They just came out with the 903, so you might be able to get a good deal
on a 902 if they blow out remaining stock (I think Mike said they had 30
or so left when I saw him last).
Edwin
Edwin Hurwitz
Kirk McElhearn <kirkmc (at) mac (dot) com> wrote:
> On 2011-01-22 06:19:51 +0100, band beyond description
> <shadowbo...@apocalypse.com> said:
>
> >>
> >> It does make me wonder why they didn't just release this on a hard
> >> drive. It would have made a lot more sense.
> >>
> >> Edwin
> >
> > Now *that* is a great idea, but it probably never occurred to the record
> > company wankers as it would throw them out of work...it would take the GD
> > to shepherd something like that to fruition, but would even they be up for
> > it...?
>
> I've only seen that done for a couple of magazines: The New Yorker and
> Playboy. I've yet to see music released like that.
>
> In a way, it's risky; if the drive crashes, you don't have the music.
> However, releasing on a flash drive would be more realistic. It's not
> that expensive to get a 64 GB drive these days; certainly less than
> what it costs for all that packaging.
>
> Kirk
Flash drives also fail and with a lot less warning. However, CDs also
fail after time. It's turning out that a lot of digital music is being
lost quicker than analog. However, if I were to get it on a drive I'd
make sure I had a backup.
Another option, although I have my reservations about it, is to purchase
server access where you can stream as needed. I heard rumors about 6 or
7 years ago that this was the future of media releases and so far with
things like Netflix/Apple TV, it looks like it is heading that way. I
actually like that combination pretty well. For a $100 investment and
less than $10/mo, I have access to a lot of movies and TV shows (albeit
not as they are released). Hell, Sweets has been operating on a similar
model for quite a while now!
bigrr
McElhearn wrote:
> Cambridge Audio DacMagic
Now this is funny Kirk. I was going to ask your opinion about whether
it was really worth the $400+ I found that it cost but I saw an article
in the google search and read it first. After reading the article,
which I found interesting & eye-opening, I found that I had gotten your
opinion. It was an article you wrote for PC World.
Well, it persuaded me. I run my computer to my home stereo & listen to
my music thusly. I'm looking forward to adding this device & upgrading
the sound.
Thanks for bringing this up.
Peace, Rick
Kirk McElhearn at dot
>
>> Cambridge Audio DacMagic
>
> Now this is funny Kirk. I was going to ask your opinion about whether
> it was really worth the $400+ I found that it cost but I saw an article
> in the google search and read it first. After reading the article,
> which I found interesting & eye-opening, I found that I had gotten your
> opinion. It was an article you wrote for PC World.
Actually, I wrote it for Macworld. It sucks that other IDG publications
- all the "-World" ones - use our articles and often their pages get
higher placements in Google search results. But, no matter, you do see
exactly how I feel about it.
>
> Well, it persuaded me. I run my computer to my home stereo & listen to
> my music thusly. I'm looking forward to adding this device & upgrading
> the sound.
>
> Thanks for bringing this up.
I hope you like it. It's quite a surprising device.
bzl...@aaool.com
(dot) com> wrote:
>On 2011-01-22 06:19:51 +0100, band beyond description
><shadowbo...@apocalypse.com> said:
>
>>>
>>> It does make me wonder why they didn't just release this on a hard
>>> drive. It would have made a lot more sense.
>>>
>>> Edwin
>>
>> Now *that* is a great idea, but it probably never occurred to the record
>> company wankers as it would throw them out of work...it would take the GD
>> to shepherd something like that to fruition, but would even they be up for
>> it...?
>
>I've only seen that done for a couple of magazines: The New Yorker and
>Playboy. I've yet to see music released like that.
>
>In a way, it's risky; if the drive crashes, you don't have the music.
>However, releasing on a flash drive would be more realistic. It's not
>that expensive to get a 64 GB drive these days; certainly less than
>what it costs for all that packaging.
>
>Kirk
Presumably anyone who ordered the hard drive version would know
enought to back the sucker up upon receipt.
I wish they'd do this. 24bit por favor.