US troops drape Old Glory on Saddam statue (NDC)
John Doherty
demolition, and our zealous marines made a big no no.
They draped a US flag over the Saddam statue in this Baghdad square, in
front of hundreds of Iraqis.
Within minutes, the brass was on the phone to get the damn flag off
Saddam's head, it counters our assertions that we are "liberators" not
"occupiers".
Hey, our Preznit's a unifier, not a divider! Just ask the rest of the
world: they're all united in oppositon to us right now!;-)
But seriously, this little vignette just shows a peek at the problems
we are going to have in the weeks, months (& years?) ahead there.
Now all over the world, people will be waking up to this image at the
breakfast table-- Marines draping the stars & stripes over the Saddam
staue they are about to tear down.
But don't worry, back at home, you can be sure the media will bury the
story: can't ruffle the feathers of the war machine...
JD
Jperdue4
>demolition, and our zealous marines made a big no no.
>
>They draped a US flag over the Saddam statue in this Baghdad square, in
>front of hundreds of Iraqis.
this is where i got disgusted and had to turn it off..... propaganda in its
highest form...its so freakin disgusting, the arrogance of the united
states......im not hoping for its demise really...but i hope someday we are
taught a lesson somehow that makes us see that we arent the "best" or
"greatest" or ordained by god etc...its truly disgusting to me...
JonP
SCIncident2
this morning. Each one taking swings at the base with a sledge hammer. Men
climbing on top of the base to attach ropes to it so that our tanks could pull
it down. How can you question our motives in Iraq when it seems that more and
more of the citizens are rallying against Saddam. When will the idea that we
are occuppiers going to leave the American psyche? Perhaps when we pull out
our troops and leave it up to the new Iraqi government. I can't wait to be
able to watch all of the naysayers faces and hear what they have to say then.
Don't hate our government for something it hasn't done yet. I'm sure you
wouldn't appreciate being ridiculed for something you say repeatedly that you
are not going to do, or even before you have had the chance to do it.
I honestly believe that the voice of the iraqi people will take over in the
Arab world and Arabs everywhere will soon see that the Iraqis are free and
happy and living their own terror free lives becuase there were people in the
world who took up their plight and helped them to secure a futurre for
themselves and their country. Just my opinion though. Peace Jimm
Olompali4
Iraqi men jumping on the fallen statue was exhilarating.
SCIncident2
anything in this conflict. Not by draping a flag or by stealing ashtrays from
the palace. Just thought I would mention that before I get flamed! Peace Jimm
Phreedom
fucking excited...get over it.
This type of action has been going on for years when war is on. Yah, we
want to occupy Iraq, that's what we want. We are never leaving! Come
on...you would honestly have to be stupid to believe that.
You guys will always be "different" outcast hippies that are loosers. You
were not with America, with our troops, with our Prez, and so on......so
once again, you you have no idea on what it feels like to be a
winner....victoriuos in your mission. You will always be outcasts loosers
in America, which is why you always bash America.
Again, Fuck off, he threw the flag up for like 20 seconds while being
cheered on by Iragi's who were also waving a few american flags from what I
could see.
In summary,
You America and Troop Bashers = Loosers
Troops = Gutsy heros who have WON by meeting their objective in a quick time
frame with minimal casualties.
But yah, get all hung up on that flag buddy....it is your flag too if you
haven't forgoten. Do you have any pride for your county?? Any pride for
the troop that risked his life and decided to put up the flag for a minute
in the excitement of the moments. The troops want to get home so fast they
can't stand it...but they guy put up that flag so he can stay in the shitty
100 degree desert and occupy Iraq for the rest of his life.
Get real....THERE IS NO STORY!!!
Chuck Gregg
"Phreedom" <phre...@columbus.rr.com> wrote in message
news:B1OdnaG06p-...@wideopenwest.com...
FWIW. Fuck you.
Hope this helps.
John Doherty
<phre...@columbus.rr.com> wrote:
> You guys will always be "different" outcast hippies that are loosers.
Looser than whom? ;-)
> You
> were not with America, with our troops, with our Prez, and so on......so
> once again, you you have no idea on what it feels like to be a
> winner....victoriuos in your mission. You will always be outcasts loosers
> in America, which is why you always bash America.
it is the duty of every patriot to keep an eye on what his country does
in his or her name. You seem to gravitate more toward the ideals of
Stalin than Jefferson, with your attitude.
>
> Again, Fuck off, he threw the flag up for like 20 seconds while being
> cheered on by Iragi's who were also waving a few american flags from what I
> could see.
> In summary,
> You America and Troop Bashers = Loosers
> Troops = Gutsy heros who have WON by meeting their objective in a quick time
> frame with minimal casualties.
Minimal US casualties. The Red Cross says they are inundated to the
point where they can no longer count the number of Iraqi cviilians who
are dead or injured. Did you cath the story about the Iraqi boy who
had both arms blown off by US bombs while we were granting his freedom?
> But yah, get all hung up on that flag buddy....it is your flag too if you
> haven't forgoten. Do you have any pride for your county??
Plenty-- but it's not an ignorant "my country right or wrong" type of
pride. It's based on the noble ideals on which this country was
founded, of which you seem ignorant. it's not based on firepower or
colored bunting. I love the flag, but it is a piece of cloth that
represents something far greater and much more important- The US
Constitution, which guarantees our liberty, freedom of speech, right to
dissent, etc.
> Any pride for
> the troop that risked his life and decided to put up the flag for a minute
> in the excitement of the moments.
I have plenty of sympathy for the troops over there right now. I saw
one on the CBS News last night observe that " a lot of these bad guys
(bin ladin, Hussein) seem to have been on our payroll over the years"
This soldier's intelligence filled me with pride, and admiration that
even though "his is but to do & die" , he's managed to understand the
broader context of this maneuever.
As far as the soldier "risking his life" to put a flag on the statue,
two notes:
1.) This boneheaded move was contrary to his stated mission policy. I
wouldn't be surprised if his superiors reprimand him for this stupid &
macho overkill, which will certainly be exploited by America's
opponents in the PR war.
2.) If my son were killed doing a stunt like this, I would think it was
a horrible waste of a promising young life, akin to a high school kid
falling to his death while spray painting graffiti on a water tower.
do you think he was doing something positive?
> Get real....THERE IS NO STORY!!!
Oh, there's a story all right, and there will be plenty more stories in
the days ahead, but don't expect the cable news to tell you about them.
Looser than you,;-)
JD
George The Kat
> staue they are about to tear down.
>
> But don't worry, back at home, you can be sure the media will bury the
> story: can't ruffle the feathers of the war machine...
bad call there, Dr. Chomsky. It's all over the news right now...
Phreedom
> two notes:
>
> 1.) This boneheaded move was contrary to his stated mission policy. I
> wouldn't be surprised if his superiors reprimand him for this stupid &
> macho overkill, which will certainly be exploited by America's
> opponents in the PR war.
>
> 2.) If my son were killed doing a stunt like this, I would think it was
> a horrible waste of a promising young life, akin to a high school kid
> falling to his death while spray painting graffiti on a water tower.
> do you think he was doing something positive?
>
>
> > Get real....THERE IS NO STORY!!!
>
> Oh, there's a story all right, and there will be plenty more stories in
> the days ahead, but don't expect the cable news to tell you about them.
A. I wasn't saying he was risking his life to put up the flag, but rather
risking his life to free Iraq and then he got a little over excited and put
up the flag when he thought he had reached his "end game" after traveling,
fighting, and not sleeping for the last 3 weeks. I wouldn't call it "macho
overkill" b/c I have never had that kind of adrenalin before. Have you?
B. I still don't think there is a story, but the press and people like you
will try to make one out of it. The KID made a mistake plain and simple.
We all make them...like me responding to this post in the first place.
But, how often do our mistakes get played on tv thousands of times. The
deserves a break instead of being called a macho, dumb, to American troop.
I have no idea what was going on in his mind and heart at that moment he
pulled out the flag, but to him at that moment, I bet it was pure and real
with lots of pride while not thinking twice about it and how it would be
perceived.
John Doherty
<George...@hotmailclaws.com> wrote:
Well, I'm glad to be wrong on this. I suspect the US troops firing
yesterday on the Baghdad hotel full of reporters may elicit a more
truthful reporting in the near future.
I'd be thrilled to be wrong about the post war Iraq scenario, too,
FWIW.
& I have no use for Dr. Noam...
JD
Munexus3
proud about, your ignorance or your arrogance?
Frndthdevl
>You guys will always be "different" outcast hippies that are loosers.
why are you here then?
>Troops = Gutsy heros who have
troops+brave heros who had no place else to go for a job or college education.
because the republicraps would rather spend money on tax cuts for the rich,and
the democraps on money for welfare cradle to the grave.
>.it is your flag too if you
>haven't forgoten. Do you have any pride for your county??
times like this yes, then the realization that we are still fighting a drug war
in our country on our minority communities and non violent pot smokers.
BTW, Freedom is spelled with a F not a fucking PH. Anybody who spells shit with
a Ph should go to Phrance
George The Kat
> yesterday on the Baghdad hotel full of reporters may elicit a more
> truthful reporting in the near future.
The U.S. troops were taking fire from Iraqi forces INSIDE the hotel. WTF
were they supposed to do? The reporters were fully aware that they were in
the middle of a war. That's why they were there in the first place. That
doesn't make their deaths less tragic, but don't make the U.S. troops out to
be cold-hearted butchers intent on killing reporters.
I didn't support the decision to invade Iraq, but making U.S. troops out to
be war criminals is bullshit.
Frndthdevl
>"Chuck Gregg" wrote:
>>
>>"Phreedom" wrote
>>> Again, Fuck off,
>>FWIW. Fuck you.
>It's eloquent responses like yours that help people change their
>mind... NOT...
well DG I think the phishphuck was the first one to tell everybody to fuck
off. Always funny when one responds with the same type of language to a post
and get flamed for it. While the one who started the flame gets away with it.
What are you some docent lover too?
Peace and Sashimi
Jeff
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
president, or that we are to stand by the president,
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American Public."
- - Theodore Roosevelt
Frndthdevl
>The U.S. troops were taking fire from Iraqi forces INSIDE the hotel. WTF
Who says? oh the army. Must be true then, after all they said they never did
LSD experiments so they must never lie to cover up mistakes.. Why is it every
reporter said they heard nothing? Are you saying all the press there got
together and said hey lets cover up for the sniper? Info I heard was there may
have been snipers on the bottom floor,ok,why shoot at the 15th floor?
"Restriction of free thought and free speech is the
most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one
un-American act that could most easily defeat us."
--Justice William O. Douglas
Olompali4
>with
>a Ph should go to Phrance<
Bravo!
Phreedom
But, I did go off on policits b/c of John's post.
> BTW, Freedom is spelled with a F not a fucking PH. Anybody who spells shit
with
> a Ph should go to Phrance
The screen name is intentional...been having phun with it for over a month
now.
Phreedom
taking fire from Iraqi forces INSIDE the hotel. WTF
>
> Who says? oh the army. Must be true then, after all they said they never
did
> LSD experiments so they must never lie to cover up mistakes.. Why is it
every
It always comes back to drugs and drug freedom on groups like this doesn't
it.
You're right, the soldiers should have stood there, done nothing, and
allowed themselves to be shot dead.
Good idea. But you know what, maybe nobody was even shooting at
them....maybe they were just tripping and thought they
were being shot at. I bet that is it.
PS- War is HELL.....get the HELL out of there!!!!
Frndthdevl
>> why are you here then?
>For the music, not the scene, hippies, drugs, or politics
the music of which you speak was spawned by hippies on drugs, having sex and
going against the political grain of the time. So yes, many "elders" might not
hold the same views as you, and may even express them more stridently than is
always helpful. But that is the way it is.
JC Martin
news:090420031108217381%jgnospa...@attbi.com...
> I was just watching the live CNN feed from a Baghdad Saddam statue
> demolition, and our zealous marines made a big no no.
>
> They draped a US flag over the Saddam statue in this Baghdad square, in
> front of hundreds of Iraqis.
Probably.
> Within minutes, the brass was on the phone to get the damn flag off
> Saddam's head, it counters our assertions that we are "liberators" not
> "occupiers".
If you paid attention, the flag was up there for about 1 minute. I don't
think the brass had time to tell him to take down the flag and it was
reported as such. Plus, that soldier wasn't going to let the flag go down
with the statue, just as he didn't let Iraq's flag do the same.
> Hey, our Preznit's a unifier, not a divider! Just ask the rest of the
> world: they're all united in oppositon to us right now!;-)
>
> But seriously, this little vignette just shows a peek at the problems
> we are going to have in the weeks, months (& years?) ahead there.
>
> Now all over the world, people will be waking up to this image at the
> breakfast table-- Marines draping the stars & stripes over the Saddam
> staue they are about to tear down.
>
> But don't worry, back at home, you can be sure the media will bury the
> story: can't ruffle the feathers of the war machine...
Actually, CNN has been reporting various Arab networks view on that
particular incident.
-JC
Jim K
<phre...@columbus.rr.com> wrote:
>
>You guys will always be "different" outcast hippies that are loosers.
Yeah, but at least we'll be able to spell "losers."
JimK
Frndthdevl
>You're right, the soldiers should have stood there, done nothing,
they could have ducked into their M1 Abrahms tank. Which they could have then
drove over to the hotel and check it out if it was such a threat. Sending one
round into a hotel known to be full of "reporters" to me does not seem the
thing to do. obviously YMMV, who needs reporters anyway right?
JC Martin
> point where they can no longer count the number of Iraqi cviilians who
> are dead or injured. Did you cath the story about the Iraqi boy who
> had both arms blown off by US bombs while we were granting his freedom?
The truth is however that if Saddam were left in power, more Iraqis would
die. War is a horrible thing, and the Bush administration didn't handle
what led up to the war in a very civil way. But it's a great thing that
Saddam's regime is done with. I'm sure Iraq's people are experiencing some
relief because of it. What the future holds, I don't know. I only hope and
pray that we can do what we've never done before in the Middle East before.
I do sense more of a commitment to our obligations this time around, if not
for our *kind hearts*, then for our need to protect our country from
terrorism.
-JC
slenon
shoot at the 15th floor?
I'd tend to believe the guys on the ground taking fire as to where that fire
was coming from. A sniper has a much better field of fire from an elevated
position than from a ground level. But all you guys who've never worn a
uniform or been shot at somehow know better than the troops on the ground.
I suspect this to be yet another case of Iraqi troops hiding behind
civilians.
--
Stev Lenon MT(ASCP)
Confused? Listen to the music play!
Save a cow, eat a PETA member
sle...@tampabay.rr.com
http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/index.html/slhomepage92kword.htm
Phreedom
slenon
then
>drove over to the hotel and check it out if it was such a threat. Sending
one
>round into a hotel known to be full of "reporters" to me does not seem the
>thing to do. obviously YMMV, who needs reporters anyway right?
An Abrams carries only it's own crew. It does not shelter or transport
infantry. Futher, troops don't eliminate snipers or ambushes by pulling out
of them or by backing away, but by going through them and then eliminating
any surviving enemy. This was a tactical situation not a political
situation. Our troops aren't going to make a practice of targeting the
press. Neither are they going to hunker down and take fire without
returning it. You seem all to willing to believe that no one was firing at
them. Do you also believe the Iraqi press releases that say our troops in
Baghdad are committing suicide in large numbers?
Phreedom
>
> the music of which you speak was spawned by hippies on drugs, having sex
and
> going against the political grain of the time. So yes, many "elders" might
not
> hold the same views as you, and may even express them more stridently than
is
> always helpful. But that is the way it is.
That was then, this is now. Good music transcends time and can always be
re-interpreted by open minds. Just like then, I am going against the
"grain," but from inside the same "scene." I enjoy many musicians who I
disagree with on various personal and political levels.
Olompali4
>now.<
The confession of a troll.
JC Martin
news:ZJYka.4134$JX2.3...@typhoon.sonic.net...
> "John Doherty" <jgnospa...@attbi.com> wrote in message
> news:090420031108217381%jgnospa...@attbi.com...
> > I was just watching the live CNN feed from a Baghdad Saddam statue
> > demolition, and our zealous marines made a big no no.
> >
> > They draped a US flag over the Saddam statue in this Baghdad square, in
> > front of hundreds of Iraqis.
>
>
> Probably.
Just so ya know, my reference was meant to agree that it was a no-no to
drape the American flag on the statue's head. But given that they didn't
keep it up there long, I don't think it's a big deal, especially with the
cheering Iraqis all around who are glad Saddam has been ousted. Even
Al-Jazeera is reporting about the happy and cheering Iraqi civillians.
-JC
Frndthdevl
>A sniper has a much better field of fire from an elevated
>position than from a ground level
duh! the info that a sniper was on the bottom floor came out from Armed forces
sources. Why did the press not hear the smiper? Sure, in the big picture this
means nothing, but I believe in an America that acts American all the time.
>But all you guys who've never worn a
>uniform
YMMV, but just because YOU have done the above, does not give you more rights
or necessarily insight. Just better experience not questioning authority and
distrusting everybody unlike you.
Neil Krueger
phre...@columbus.rr.com wrote on 4/9/03 1:51 PM:
Cool. Then you completely understand why you're going to take the heat:
going against the grain causes a lot of friction.
Peace,
Neil X.
Frndthdevl
>Do you also believe the Iraqi press releases that say our troops in
>Baghdad are committing suicide in large numbers?
It is so fucking funny when anybody whether on the rabid right, or the lunatic
left
think that just because one does not believe the same as them, that one must
believe the total opposite. The question is do you believe all those
international press people were lying about not hearing snipers?
Frndthdevl
>The explanation I heard was best. The cameraman looked like he had a
>missle launcher (which was his camera). The tank gunner spotted him
>and took the shot.
>
this sounds plausible, so why not just say like Gen. Myers did today about
the death of 11 innocent Afghani's? that it was a mistake .Instead of some
absurd sniper cover story.
Zenobios
<<Bravo!>>
But there is one exception. "Phat"
I (and people I grew up with) was using "phat" as the description for big,
rockin, gorgeous Black-girl asses since before I ever heard of Phish, and I
first caught Phish in concert in 1990.
Of course we were just saying it, not spelling it in school reports, but it
was always considered to be "phat" when used in that context.
There is a big difference between someone who is "fat" and someone who has a
"DAMN she has a phat ass!!" ass.
To put it another way... "Fat" can be a health risk. "Phat" is a gift from
God. =)
A Black girl can have a luscious, killin, high-water booty that is phat as
fuck, even though she isn't fat in any way.
Venus, Serena, Brandy, Jill Marie Jones, Honey Love, etc... all have
seriously phat booties. But they aren't fat.
Aside from that though, I agree. Phuck, Phirst, Phinest, Philthy, Phierce,
etc... Fuck that.
John
John Doherty
<George...@hotmailclaws.com> wrote:
> > Well, I'm glad to be wrong on this. I suspect the US troops firing
> > yesterday on the Baghdad hotel full of reporters may elicit a more
> > truthful reporting in the near future.
>
> The U.S. troops were taking fire from Iraqi forces INSIDE the hotel. WTF
> were they supposed to do?
According to a Boston Herald American Reporter who was on-scene with
the tank crew:
"The tanker had seen RPG crews operating AROUND the hotel,
headquarters for hundreds of foreign journalists, and someone peering
out an upper window with binoculars."
(emphasis added)
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/war/jule04092003.htm
this by the way, is the most sympathetic take I've heard from the press
on this. Many say there was no action near the hotel...
So because there was action around the hotel, and because someone used
binoculars AT the hotel, they opened fire on them?
JD
MDZamboni
celebrating! I love it. Those people know what it was like to be
under the thumb of Saddam. I hope they interview them in bunches.
Might just open a few eyes here in RMGD. >>
I doubt it, very seriously.
Grant Wilcox
<nos...@nospam.nospam> wrote:
> >well DG I think the phishphuck was the first one to tell everybody to
> >fuck
> >off.
>
> Must have been in another thread.
>
> >Always funny when one responds with the same type of language to a post
> >and get flamed for it. While the one who started the flame gets away
> >with it.
>
> Must have been in another thread.
>
DG, I don't often agree with your politics, but at least you usually
seem to have some reading comprehension and don't gloss over facts, but
here you go:
From Response 6 in THIS thread:
In article <B1OdnaG06p-...@wideopenwest.com>, "Phreedom"
<phre...@columbus.rr.com> wrote:
> Again, Fuck off, he threw the flag up for like 20 seconds while being
> cheered on by Iragi's who were also waving a few american flags from what
He very clearly told everyone to f*** off. Sorry to have to point that
out to you.
-Grant
Kyleolso
communists will have to find somethng else to bitch about
Frndthdevl
>Yea- America. Go- America.. The War will soon be over. Then you no good
>communists will have to find somethng else to bitch about
is it ok to bitch about the drug war that continues to waste money that could
be used for counter terrorism and really is a war on the black community? Is it
ok to bitch about locking up non violent pot smokers while rapist, robbers and
murderers get paroled regularly? Is it ok to bitch about idiots who think
everybody who disagrees with them is a "commie" BTW,if your still worried abut
communism your really in a sad state. Is it ok to bitch about the people you
have never seen on this board before who step forth and proffer nothing but
jingoistic fervor?
Neil Krueger
kyle...@aol.comedy wrote on 4/9/03 2:50 PM:
> Yea- America. Go- America.. The War will soon be over. Then you no good
> communists will have to find somethng else to bitch about
OK, and you're it.
Toad The Dead Vegan
>
> I was just watching the live CNN feed from a Baghdad Saddam statue
> demolition, and our zealous marines made a big no no.
>
> They draped a US flag over the Saddam statue in this Baghdad square, in
> front of hundreds of Iraqis.
Who were cheering.
> Within minutes, the brass was on the phone to get the damn flag off
> Saddam's head, it counters our assertions that we are "liberators" not
> "occupiers".
And it was immediately replaced with an Iraqi flag.
> Hey, our Preznit's a unifier, not a divider! Just ask the rest of the
> world: they're all united in oppositon to us right now!;-)
>
> But seriously, this little vignette just shows a peek at the problems
> we are going to have in the weeks, months (& years?) ahead there.
This little vignette shows this: an American soldier was excited about
remaining alive after going through the 3 most hellacious weeks of his
life. He very understandably wanted to do a bit of celebrating. He was
quickly corrected and the flag was removed, demonstrating that the US
military has no desire whatsoever to appear as conquerors.
> Now all over the world, people will be waking up to this image at the
> breakfast table-- Marines draping the stars & stripes over the Saddam
> staue they are about to tear down.
>
> But don't worry, back at home, you can be sure the media will bury the
> story: can't ruffle the feathers of the war machine...
To extrapolate the actions of one excited soldier into some sort of US
conspiracy simply shows that many Americans have lost all sense of
reason and look for the most minute event to support their position. As
attention spans have been reduced to "instant", we now also see critical
thinking and an understanding of human emotions reduced to "agenda laden
nit picking and reality ignoring".
Have a thoughtful day,
TDV
Toad The Dead Vegan
> So because there was action around the hotel, and because someone used
> binoculars AT the hotel, they opened fire on them?
Sound about right to me. I guess the rest of the people in the world,
including US soldiers who have taken fire from mosques, schools,
pregnant women, and hospitals, aren't as perfect as you and make some
mistakes in the heat of combat. I'm certain you would never wheel and
fire too quickly if something threatened your life in an instant; I'm
sure you would calmly and rationally analyse the situation every time.
Maybe you should have volunteered; we could always use more pros such as
yourself.
Personally, I'm far more saddened by the small number of innocent
civilians killed in the war than I am by a handful of reporters who by
their own choice placed themselves in the middle of a war under the
"protection" of a bunch of murderous thugs.
TDV
Jim K
wrote:
>well DG I think the phishphuck was the first one to tell everybody to fuck
>off. Always funny when one responds with the same type of language to a post
>and get flamed for it. While the one who started the flame gets away with it.
>
The refs always call the second foul after missing the first one.
JimK
Scranjuber
>celebrating! I love it. Those people know what it was like to be
>under the thumb of Saddam. I hope they interview them in bunches.
>Might just open a few eyes here in RMGD.
FWIW, i don't think anyone is a big fan of saddam. As far as being agianst the
war I think it is more of a, "do the ends justify the means?"
Jim K
<phre...@columbus.rr.com> wrote:
>Ok, you guys are good, my spell check is not, you got me on the "losers."
>
Just so you know, we let a couple of other mistakes go......gave you
the benefit of the doubt that they might be typos.
JimK
Phreedom
read the post and responded
I didn't have time to mellow first.
Anyways, right on!!
Phreedom
The rest of the fucks and fucking were not directed at anyone on here.
Scranjuber
>forces
>sources.
i'm as liberal as they come but to give shit to our troops for returning fire
is pathetic. till you are actually in combat i don't think you have any idea
what it is like.
Do you think they were actually trying to hit reporters?
pops
Frndthdevl
>i'm as liberal as they come but to give shit to our troops for returning fire
>is pathetic.
who gave shit to the troops? The shit was seemingly given with regards to our
government's lame excuse of a sniper. Instead of a simple apology as they did
today regarding another 11 innocent Afghani's killed.
What is pathetic imho is believing the government is right at all times. What
is more pathetic is that voicing an opinion unpopular is seen as "against the
troops"
> till you are actually in combat i don't >think you have any idea
>what it is like.
>Do you think they were actually trying to hit reporters?
Do you think all the reporters were lying?
Again, was the world press there on scene,not in a tank across the river, lying
about not being a sniper?
Liberal as they come huh? well you must be for gun control. Iraq had gun
control, perhaps if it did not Saddam would not have lasted as long.
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
president, or that we are to stand by the president,
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American Public."
- - Theodore Roosevelt
Ken Kaufman
>>>BTW, Freedom is spelled with a F not a fucking PH. Anybody who spells
>shitwitha Ph should go to Phrance<<
>
><<Bravo!>>
> But there is one exception. "Phat"
...
> Aside from that though, I agree. Phuck, Phirst, Phinest, Philthy, Phierce,
>etc... Fuck that.
One exception. "Phucking Philadelphia Phlyers" and other such variants
have nice alliteration to them.
==Ken
Phreedom
> Just so you know, we let a couple of other mistakes go......gave you
> the benefit of the doubt that they might be typos.
Wow, I feel special. Thank you. I should really waste even more of my time
and go over my posts with a fine tooth comb.
Phreedom
come but to give shit to our troops for returning fire
> is pathetic. till you are actually in combat i don't think you have any
idea
> what it is like.
> Do you think they were actually trying to hit reporters?
> pops
Hey, it's pops from rmp. Sweeet!!
They don't like my Phreedom bullshit much here either.
Oh well, different newsgroup, same liberals. ;)
Anyways, good point pops.
Scranjuber
>government's lame excuse of a sniper. Instead of a simple apology as they did
>today regarding another 11 innocent Afghani's killed.
i stand corrected
>What is pathetic imho is believing the government is right at all times.
that is so far from how i feel
>Do you think all the reporters were lying?
never said that, was commenting on what the troops saw as a threat, it could
have been imaginary but to a soldier in combat who hasn't slept for a few days
a perceived threat can be just as real as an actual threat. i do agree that if
a mistake was made there is no need to spin it, just apologize and get opn w/
it
>Liberal as they come huh? well you must be for gun control. Iraq had gun
>control, perhaps if it did not Saddam would not have lasted as long.
I'm for gun control when it comes to hand guns and assault riffles not hunting
rifles. w/ the firepower that our army has do you really think that a well
armed populance is any real threat to our armed forces should they get out of
control?
you were the one who made the gun control to saddam comparison
pops
slenon
>international press people were lying about not hearing snipers?
No, I don't believe that they are lying. However, a sniper's rifle can be
silenced and often is. Further, if the angle of fire is away from you the
first thing you hear may be return fire. And in a noisy combat situation in
an urban setting it can be difficult to hear single shots in such a
situation or to determine the location of said sniper. I still trust the
guys on the ground and my own experience.
--
Stev Lenon MT(ASCP)
Confused? Listen to the music play!
Save a cow, eat a PETA member
sle...@tampabay.rr.com
http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/index.html/slhomepage92kword.htm
haole
in America, which is why you always bash America" (won't even go there),
Iraqis, American, Losers, heroes, forgotten, country
Only story here is that someone (Phreedom) needs to get a spelling and
grammar lesson.
"Phreedom" <phre...@columbus.rr.com> wrote in message
news:B1OdnaG06p-...@wideopenwest.com...
> There is no fucking story....you just want there to be one. The troops
are
> fucking excited...get over it.
> This type of action has been going on for years when war is on. Yah, we
> want to occupy Iraq, that's what we want. We are never leaving! Come
> on...you would honestly have to be stupid to believe that.
>
> You guys will always be "different" outcast hippies that are loosers. You
> were not with America, with our troops, with our Prez, and so on......so
> once again, you you have no idea on what it feels like to be a
> winner....victoriuos in your mission. You will always be outcasts loosers
> in America, which is why you always bash America.
>
> Again, Fuck off, he threw the flag up for like 20 seconds while being
> cheered on by Iragi's who were also waving a few american flags from what
I
> could see.
> In summary,
> You America and Troop Bashers = Loosers
> Troops = Gutsy heros who have WON by meeting their objective in a quick
time
> frame with minimal casualties.
> But yah, get all hung up on that flag buddy....it is your flag too if you
> haven't forgoten. Do you have any pride for your county?? Any pride for
> the troop that risked his life and decided to put up the flag for a minute
> in the excitement of the moments. The troops want to get home so fast
they
> can't stand it...but they guy put up that flag so he can stay in the
shitty
> 100 degree desert and occupy Iraq for the rest of his life.
>
> Get real....THERE IS NO STORY!!!
>
>
slenon
forces
this
>means nothing, but I believe in an America that acts American all the time.
See my previous post as to why the press may not have heard a sniper.
Situations get confused and troops under fire don't always have time to
worry about being politically correct.
>>But all you guys who've never worn a uniform
>YMMV, but just because YOU have done the above, does not give you more
rights
>or necessarily insight. Just better experience not questioning authority
and
>distrusting everybody unlike you.
How about better experience at surviving in a battlefield situation and
determining whether or not it is appropriate to return fire? You've no
knowledge of whether or not I questioned or question authority then or today
save what you believe based upon my posts. I don't distrust everyone unlike
me. I do have a closer affinity to people who have been under fire. So
would you.
Frndthdevl
> I do have a closer affinity to people who have been under fire.
I understand and respect your feelings for that. But this leads to an us versus
them mentality does it not? Especially as perpetuated by law enforcement And I
do not think that is necessarily a good thing regarding truth. And I think in
the US there is already enough
"us versus them"
Peace
jeff
"Blues for Allah, Insh'Allah
Let's see with our heart these things our eyes have seen
And know the truth must still lie somewhere in between"
Hunter
John Doherty
Vegan <Dav...@sprintmail.DLGDLV.com> wrote:
> John Doherty wrote:
>
> > So because there was action around the hotel, and because someone used
> > binoculars AT the hotel, they opened fire on them?
>
> Sound about right to me. I guess the rest of the people in the world,
> including US soldiers who have taken fire from mosques, schools,
> pregnant women, and hospitals, aren't as perfect as you and make some
> mistakes in the heat of combat. I'm certain you would never wheel and
> fire too quickly if something threatened your life in an instant; I'm
> sure you would calmly and rationally analyse the situation every time.
> Maybe you should have volunteered; we could always use more pros such as
> yourself.
We are not talking about a rash decision to fire on an ambiguous target
later shown to be innocuous.
this was the central hotel housing the international press corps,
(including many American journalists).
According to the reports, the tank operator saw fire from "around the
hotel". so he chooses to fire a round into the 15th floor.
When did binoculars becomes wepons of mass destruction?
Isn't it logical that reporters would have binoculars?
>
> Personally, I'm far more saddened by the small number of innocent
> civilians killed in the war
what gives you the idea it's a "small number, American TV reports?
The red cross says they were overwhelmed with civilians killed &
injured, and gave up counting...
JD
M.A Newbury
this morning.Each one
>taking swings at the base with a sledge hammer.
Were you expecting *more* than just the negative
from this NG? The flag thing was a very small
mistake from a few over zealous soldiers.
Oh, I forgot, a tank full of very proud marines
represent all of America and the"flag order"
came direct from the "B-Man" himself.
Once again......Silly Me...
What *was* I thinking?
Mark
M.A Newbury
f**king excited...get over it.
Of course they want to make it an issue. At this
point they'll do or say *anything* to draw attention
away from the fact that are about to be proven
horribly wrong about protesting the war. The
excited cheers from now FREE Iraqi's means
NOTHING to these people. They're all so wrapped
up in their hatred of America and Bush that they
effectively and collectively shut their eyes to
what was *really* happening as that ugly
statue came down. All they saw was the flag.
Peace,
Mark
***( 12/08/80 )*** Lennon.
***( 08/09/95 )*** Garcia.
***( 09/11/01 )*** WTC.
***( 02/01/03 )*** Columbia. ***( 01/28/86 )*** Challenger.
May the four winds blow them safely home.
M.A Newbury
>under the thumb of Saddam. I hope they
> interview them in bunches.
>Might just open a few eyes here in RMGD.
IMPOSSIBLE!
After this "flag" issue dies down, they'll
find something else to hate America for.
Peace,
Mark
M.A Newbury
>
Ask some Iraqi's in about a years time.
Peace,
Mark
M.A Newbury
> to go for a job or college education.
Well, it's time to go and throw up now.
You make me SICK!
Paul Mcfadyen
"JC Martin" <jcma...@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:eiZka.4143$JX2.3...@typhoon.sonic.net...
>
>
Even Al-Jazeera is reporting about the happy and cheering Iraqi civillians.
>
> -JC
I presume that's from somewhere other than their Baghdad office then?
(what's the excuse for that little F*@#-up, I wonder? or doesn't it matter,
in their case??)
Paul
M.A Newbury
>
Usenet Disclaimer
Being the benevolent person that I am, I came upon a scheme to make all Usenet
readers feel better about themselves. I always put at least one error in my
Usenet messages. That way, almost everyone who reads my post can say, “At
least I know how to spell that word.” and feel better about themselves.
Of course, with some people with lower clue level, I do have to go the extra
mile and put more than one typo in my message to make them feel superior. In
fact, there are instances with the severely clue challenged that I have had to
put in upwards of ten and twenty typos.
This does, however, have the drawback of the "Spelling Flamer" or "Grammar
Flamer. These flamers have so little respect, either from others or for
themselves, in real life that they feel that they have to show the entire
Usenet world that they know how to spell a simple four or five letter word by
exclaiming, “Learn how to spell, moron.” (often including typos in their
own message and/or without quoting).
These flames don’t really bother me, except that they clutter up the
newsgroup with the lamest possible flame in Usenet. If anyone feels that they
must respond to a spelling or grammar flame, please be kind. These poor
clueless twits deserve our sympathy, not our ire. In addition, a harsh retort
may be just enough to send some poor lamer with no self esteem over the edge.
I know I don’t want to be responsible for that.
BTW In keeping with the spirit of this disclaimer, if you do find the error in
this message, please keep it to yourself.
Frndthdevl
>they'll
>find something else to hate America for.
"Restriction of free thought and free speech is the
most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one
un-American act that could most easily defeat us."
--Justice William O. Douglas
M.A Newbury
> waste even more of my time
>and go over my posts with a fine tooth comb.
Why bother? you'll never get any respect at all
with the "PH" in your address. In here that's
*almost* as bad as the "AOL" as with mine. :-)
I lost a good 90% of them when I admitted that
I (better sit down dude!).............. like Bush.
*plonk* as they may, I'm not going anywhere.
Peace,
Mark
M.A Newbury
***( 12/08/80 )*** Lennon.
b becker
wrote:
>>There is no f**king story....you just want there to be >one. The troops are
>f**king excited...get over it.
>
>Of course they want to make it an issue. At this
>point they'll do or say *anything* to draw attention
>away from the fact that are about to be proven
>horribly wrong about protesting the war. The
>excited cheers from now FREE Iraqi's means
>NOTHING to these people. They're all so wrapped
>up in their hatred of America and Bush that they
>effectively and collectively shut their eyes to
>what was *really* happening as that ugly
>statue came down. All they saw was the flag.
> Peace,
> Mark
Did school just get out ?
peace and love, bb
M.A Newbury
I'm sure they have a list. :-)
It's most likely so big it can't be posted
here. Maybe it's in a binary group somewhere. :-)
Peace,
Mark
Frndthdevl
Hey, i'll take credit for making you sick. and I hope you spewed some through
your nose while you were at it.
Actually it was suppose to be
"troops=brave heros".
And what should make you sick is that most in the armed forces are there for
the simple reason that they want a better life. Not to protect your right to be
sickened by some other American's freedom of speech.
Orsome shining patriotic duty(sure some have it, and they all surely are
soaking in it now.) But if this was so absolute, why did we hear all the
whining by families of reserves who got called up?
What should sicken you is that good jobs and college are unavailable to them.
Like the brave Private Lynch, she joined to escape the poverty of west Virginia
not to free Iraq. And what is sickening is that college and job training is
not more available to minority communities and other poverty stricken areas
without them having to pay the ultimate price. Yet tax breaks for the rich are
called for.
If you think I derided the brave folks serving you should take off your
jingoistic glasses and face reality. And wipe the puke from your chin.
Funny how anytime anybody says anything that those on the right disagree with,
they are called America haters. Yet if those on the left say those on the right
kiss falwell's and robertson's butt they rise in indignation.
The Iron Muffin
Toad the Dead Vegan wrote:
> > Personally, I'm far more saddened by the small number of innocent
> > civilians killed in the war
>
> what gives you the idea it's a "small number, American TV reports?
>
> The red cross says they were overwhelmed with civilians killed &
> injured, and gave up counting...
--
The Iron Muffin
DEAD FREAKS UNITE
Who are you? Where are you?
How are you?
M.A Newbury
> needs to get a spelling and grammar lesson.
Usenet Disclaimer
M.A Newbury
>is the real loser.
Havanos
Matt Archer
> <<Have you seen the thousands in Dearborne, Michigan who are
> celebrating! I love it. Those people know what it was like to be
> under the thumb of Saddam. I hope they interview them in bunches.
> Might just open a few eyes here in RMGD. >>
>
Are'nt we forgetting what this war really is about? It has nothing to
do with the Iraqi people or their suffering. It is taking the Baath
party out of power because they are a rogue state run by criminal
dictator who posseses weapons of mass destruction that jeaopordize US
security. Yes, its great that the Iraqi people have been freed, but
if we celebrate that fact, then that would lead us to "free" every
citizen that is ruled by a dictator, and that is not the job of the US
Government.
Matt Archer
M.A Newbury
>nit picking and reality ignoring".
I've been trying to think of a good name for
a new newsgroup for these people and
that's perfect!
alt.music.gdead.political.nitpicking.reality-ignoring
. AND
alt.music.gdead.political.nitpicking.reality-ignoring2
there should be *at least* 2 of them to handle
all the traffic. :-) 3 would be most effecticve.
Peace,
Mark
M.A Newbury
The most biting words come easier
before calming down though. Why
hold back? They sure as hell don't!
Peace,
Mark
Frndthdevl
>a new newsgroup for these people
"these people" such a ring to it. Think I have heard that used before. Perhaps
those you do not agree with can have their own water fountains and bathrooms
too.
>there should be *at least* 2 of them to handle
>all the traffic. :-) 3 would be most effecticve.
hmm, perhaps that speaks for the demographics of this room. Perhaps you are in
the wrong room. As are all on either the rabit right or lunatic left who
believe American's acting like Iraqi's with a bit of freedom are evil.
Jim K
wrote:
>>Yeah, but at least we'll be able to spell >"losers."
You misspelled "I'm a boring and annoying twit who's so full of myself
I have no sense of humor."
JimK
M.A Newbury
bathrooms too.
There are no bathrooms in cyberspace....Silly!
Toad The Dead Vegan
> In article <3E947288...@sprintmail.DLGDLV.com>, Toad The Dead
> Vegan <Dav...@sprintmail.DLGDLV.com> wrote:
> > John Doherty wrote:
> > > So because there was action around the hotel, and because someone used
> > > binoculars AT the hotel, they opened fire on them?
> > Sound about right to me. I guess the rest of the people in the world,
> > including US soldiers who have taken fire from mosques, schools,
> > pregnant women, and hospitals, aren't as perfect as you and make some
> > mistakes in the heat of combat. I'm certain you would never wheel and
> > fire too quickly if something threatened your life in an instant; I'm
> > sure you would calmly and rationally analyse the situation every time.
> > Maybe you should have volunteered; we could always use more pros such as
> > yourself.
> We are not talking about a rash decision to fire on an ambiguous target
> later shown to be innocuous.
Maybe that's exactly what we're talking about. The reality is we don't
know what happened other than the obvious fact that some US troops felt
threatened and fired at the location they perceived was firing or about
to fire on them.
It's a war, this happens all the time. It's one reason war is so
terrible.
> this was the central hotel housing the international press corps,
> (including many American journalists).
And it could have been a source of fire for all the troops knew. After
all, pregnant women were blowing themselves up, and hospitals, schools,
and mosques had all been used as military positions. The press isn't
targeted, if they were they'd all be dead. If a policy to kill
reporters existed there most certainly would be no reporters left, just
like there is no longer an Iraqi dictatorship.
> According to the reports, the tank operator saw fire from "around the
> hotel". so he chooses to fire a round into the 15th floor.
>
> When did binoculars becomes wepons of mass destruction?
Are you saying the guy who fired should have used his Superman X-ray
vision to determine what the threat was? Maybe he made a mistake, shit
happens in a war.
> Isn't it logical that reporters would have binoculars?
I'm sure that was foremost in the mind of the guy who perceived a threat
to his life.
> > Personally, I'm far more saddened by the small number of innocent
> > civilians killed in the war
> what gives you the idea it's a "small number, American TV reports?
Yup, and facts.
> The red cross says they were overwhelmed with civilians killed &
> injured, and gave up counting...
There's about 200 hospital beds in the whole city. That only a small
number of civilians were killed in this entire conflict is
indisputable. Even Mr. Magoo Information Minister (who claimed US
troops aren't in Baghdad and that hundreds were committing suicide) only
claimed a few thousand deaths. That is undoubtedly exaggerated. The
physical evidence is that almost every single missile & bomb hit it's
military target. Some civilians worked in those buildings and died.
Some were nearby and died. Some were killed by the tiny number of off
target munitions.
If only a few thousand civilians were killed (I believe a few hundred,
maybe a thousand or two) yes, that is a very small number of civilian
casualties. We have taken an entire nation the size of California,
including a city of 5 million. Saddam and his sons used to eat more
civilians for breakfast than died in this war.
It's a terrible tragedy that any civilians died, but when looking at
this conflict in the context of military history, it is the biggest
accomplishment with the smallest loss of innocent life in the history of
modern warfare.
TDV
Sherlock
news:f%Yka.119813$j8.26...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
> >Info I heard was there may have been snipers on >the bottom floor,ok,why
> shoot at the 15th floor?
>
> I'd tend to believe the guys on the ground taking fire as to where that
fire
> was coming from. A sniper has a much better field of fire from an
elevated
> position than from a ground level. But all you guys who've never worn a
> uniform or been shot at somehow know better than the troops on the ground.
> I suspect this to be yet another case of Iraqi troops hiding behind
> civilians.
>
Hell, given what I've seen of their reporting, I figure it was the Al
Jazeera reporters taking the shots themselves.
Sherlock
John Doherty
Vegan <Dav...@sprintmail.DLGDLV.com> wrote:
>
> > The red cross says they were overwhelmed with civilians killed &
> > injured, and gave up counting...
>
> There's about 200 hospital beds in the whole city. That only a small
> number of civilians were killed in this entire conflict is
> indisputable. Even Mr. Magoo Information Minister (who claimed US
> troops aren't in Baghdad and that hundreds were committing suicide) only
> claimed a few thousand deaths. That is undoubtedly exaggerated. The
> physical evidence is that almost every single missile & bomb hit it's
> military target. Some civilians worked in those buildings and died.
> Some were nearby and died. Some were killed by the tiny number of off
> target munitions.
>
> If only a few thousand civilians were killed (I believe a few hundred,
> maybe a thousand or two)
So "a few thousand" is a small number? It was only a few thousand that
died on 9/11 , right?
Is that a small number?
You say you believe a few hundred; the web page Iron Muffin cited puts
a hard count now at about a thousand, and ABC News tonight stated
"thousands".
> yes, that is a very small number of civilian
> casualties. We have taken an entire nation the size of California,
> including a city of 5 million. Saddam and his sons used to eat more
> civilians for breakfast than died in this war.
Eat more for breakfast?! this is macho BS.
Is there a semi-accurate count of deaths in Iraq caused by Saddam's
regime?
If so, it's hardly more than a thousand a week...
>
> It's a terrible tragedy that any civilians died, but when looking at
> this conflict in the context of military history, it is the biggest
> accomplishment with the smallest loss of innocent life in the history of
> modern warfare.
The accomplishment remains to be seen for what it is; conquering
Saddam's regime was never in doubt.
Whether this is good for the US or the Middle East is still very much
an open question. Undoubtedly, citizens of Iraq will be safer under an
American protectorate than they were under Saddam, but this is not the
only piece of the puzzle.
Islamic sentiment has been inflamed against the US; Kurds are seeking
to unite with their turkish brethren (perhaps undermining the one
functioning Islamic democracy in the region), and Turks are crossing
the border into northern iraq to keep that from happening; the Shi'ites
may seek to align with Iran in the South.
Only a fool would think the fall of Baghdad is the end of the story
here. This is the potential Yugoslavia of the middle east, and we've
just signed on as the new sheriff in town.
JD
Phreedom
out ?
Yes it did.
Do you feel any smarter, b/c you all just got schooled by Phreedom and
Newbury.
Thanks for the evening backup...love the grammar 'template' post Mark.
Phreedom
seen of their reporting, I figure it was the Al
> Jazeera reporters taking the shots themselves.
Funny shit, but I wouldn't doubt it at the same time.
It's like the corporate tent at a golf tournament, but here all the Al
Jazeera friends are lining up their weapons in the hotel room.
Neil Krueger
mnew...@aol.comNoHate wrote on 4/9/03 5:46 PM:
> Silly Me...
> What *was* I thinking?
> Mark
You were thinking? When was this? Perhaps now you might consider trying to
think while typing.
Peace,
Neil X.
-mike-
>
> I just have to add to my diatribe, that I in no way support our troops claiming
> anything in this conflict. Not by draping a flag or by stealing ashtrays from
> the palace. Just thought I would mention that before I get flamed! Peace Jimm
I was disgusted to read stories about our soldiers looting.
They bragged about swiping "painted glassware" (good luck
getting that back to Peoria in one piece), artwork and
searching corpses for cigarettes.
And let me add my observation that the statue toppling
ceremony was very sparsely attended. Maybe the majority are
too scared to come out yet, and maybe it wasn't near a large
population. But a pack of several hundred people from a
city of 5 million seemed like a minor "welcome".
Congratulations, you broke the regieme and managed to keep
collateral damage to an amazingly low number. Now what? A
US Pro-consul, or a trained seal thrust upon them by Rummy,
will have a devil of a time bringing any order to the chaos.
All right, Mr. I'm-a-uniter-not-a-divider.... let's see what
you do now.
-m-
-mike-
>
> The U.S. troops were taking fire from Iraqi forces INSIDE the hotel. WTF
> were they supposed to do? The reporters were fully aware that they were in
> the middle of a war. That's why they were there in the first place. That
> doesn't make their deaths less tragic, but don't make the U.S. troops out to
> be cold-hearted butchers intent on killing reporters.
Gee, funny how a building full of professionals who earn a
living observing things didn't notice the sniping coming
from the hotel. I will not try to second guess the
commander in the field who made a decision, right or wrong.
He probably did what he felt best at the time under
difficult circumstances and should not be pilloried for it.
But I will feel free to ridicule the people who try to make
it out to be a black/white, with us/ against us argument.
-m-
Neil Krueger
mnew...@aol.comNoHate wrote on 4/9/03 6:19 PM:
>> troops+brave heros who had no place else
>> to go for a job or college education.
>
> Well, it's time to go and throw up now.
> You make me SICK!
>
Does this mean you're leaving the newsgroup again?
Hopefully Yours,
Neil X.
-mike-
> It always comes back to drugs and drug freedom on groups like this doesn't
> it.
No, it always comes back to the music (eventually). BTW,
"Phreedom", if that *IS* your real name, you don't seem very
up on a little combo we used to know called The Grateful
Dead. What's your favorite Spanish Jam? Most of the people
I argue with on this NG I forgive for their political views
because we share something else in common.
-m-
-mike-
>
> Liberal as they come huh? well you must be for gun control. Iraq had gun
> control, perhaps if it did not Saddam would not have lasted as long.
>
This is an interesting point. Didn't I hear that ever
household in Iraq had a firearm of some sort? How did
Sadaam manage to stay in power without doing a lot of prying
from cold, dead fingers?
-m-
Neil Krueger
mnew...@aol.comNoHate wrote on 4/9/03 6:30 PM:
>> Yeah, but at least we'll be able to spell >"losers."
>>
>
> Usenet Disclaimer
>
><repetitive crap snipped>
> Peace,
> Mark
Yeah, we saw this yesterday. Here's a new vocabulary word for you: SPAM. I
bet if you try, you can spell it right more than 50% of the time.
If you post drivel like this over and over again, you're really going to
irritate people. I know you're a peaceful man (from your signature), and a
simple man (from what comes above it). So cut it out.
Peace,
Neil X.
Scranjuber
>ceremony was very sparsely attended. Maybe the majority are
>too scared to come out yet, and maybe it wasn't near a large
>population. But a pack of several hundred people from a
>city of 5 million seemed like a minor "welcome".
and aren't these people programmed to rally around whoever is in power?
Not saying they loved saddam, they most likely didn't, but i doubt they love us
either.
pops
volkfolk
"John Doherty" <jgnospa...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:090420031247566802%jgnospa...@attbi.com...
> In article <v98iorj...@corp.supernews.com>, George The Kat
> <George...@hotmailclaws.com> wrote:
>
> > Marines draping the stars & stripes over the Saddam
> > > staue they are about to tear down.
> > >
> > > But don't worry, back at home, you can be sure the media will bury the
> > > story: can't ruffle the feathers of the war machine...
> >
> > bad call there, Dr. Chomsky. It's all over the news right now...
>
> Well, I'm glad to be wrong on this. I suspect the US troops firing
> yesterday on the Baghdad hotel full of reporters may elicit a more
> truthful reporting in the near future.
They are WAR CORRESPONDENTS, that is part of the inherent risk of their
jobs. They might be non combatants, but they volunteered to go into a free
fire zone in order to cover a story. Shit happens. I feel badly that they
got killed, but I don't have a lot of sympathy for their complaining about
getting shot at. If they can't take the heat, maybe they should be doing the
cooking segment on the 5PM News back home,
> I'd be thrilled to be wrong about the post war Iraq scenario, too,
> FWIW.
I think that Iraq (and the middle east) will be a much better place if we
can allow them self determination and get our troops the fuck out. If we do
that, then we will disprove all the people both here and around the world
who said that we did it for Oil or because we are imperialist aggressors
etc.
Scot
BZLRBI
>> point where they can no longer count the number of Iraqi cviilians who
>> are dead or injured. Did you cath the story about the Iraqi boy who
>> had both arms blown off by US bombs while we were granting his freedom?
>
>
>The truth is however that if Saddam were left in power, more Iraqis would
>die. War is a horrible thing, and the Bush administration didn't handle
>what led up to the war in a very civil way. But it's a great thing that
>Saddam's regime is done with. I'm sure Iraq's people are experiencing some
>relief because of it. What the future holds, I don't know. I only hope and
>pray that we can do what we've never done before in the Middle East before.
>I do sense more of a commitment to our obligations this time around, if not
>for our *kind hearts*, then for our need to protect our country from
>terrorism.
>
>-JC
What HE said.
The Ostrich
>>I was just watching the live CNN feed from a Baghdad Saddam statue
>>demolition, and our zealous marines made a big no no.
>>
>>They draped a US flag over the Saddam statue in this Baghdad square, in
>>front of hundreds of Iraqis.
>
>this is where i got disgusted and had to turn it off..... propaganda in its
>highest form...its so freakin disgusting, the arrogance of the united
>states......im not hoping for its demise really...but i hope someday we are
>taught a lesson somehow that makes us see that we arent the "best" or
>"greatest" or ordained by god etc...its truly disgusting to me...
>JonP
Just curious, who is the "best" or "greatest"?
Toad The Dead Vegan
> In article <3E94BFE9...@sprintmail.DLGDLV.com>, Toad The Dead
> Vegan <Dav...@sprintmail.DLGDLV.com> wrote:
> > > The red cross says they were overwhelmed with civilians killed &
> > > injured, and gave up counting...
> > There's about 200 hospital beds in the whole city. That only a small
> > number of civilians were killed in this entire conflict is
> > indisputable. Even Mr. Magoo Information Minister (who claimed US
> > troops aren't in Baghdad and that hundreds were committing suicide) only
> > claimed a few thousand deaths. That is undoubtedly exaggerated. The
> > physical evidence is that almost every single missile & bomb hit it's
> > military target. Some civilians worked in those buildings and died.
> > Some were nearby and died. Some were killed by the tiny number of off
> > target munitions.
> >
> > If only a few thousand civilians were killed (I believe a few hundred,
> > maybe a thousand or two)
> So "a few thousand" is a small number?
When discussing the taking of an entire nation, YES!
> It was only a few thousand that
> died on 9/11 , right?
YES! But that happened in one incident in one city on one morning, and
happened ON PURPOSE. There is no comparison when talking about the
removal of a government, the destruction of an entire military, and the
occupation of an entire nation.
> You say you believe a few hundred; the web page Iron Muffin cited puts
> a hard count now at about a thousand, and ABC News tonight stated
> "thousands".
Whether it be a few hundred, a thousand or two, or a few thousand, it is
a small number considering what was accomplished.
> > yes, that is a very small number of civilian
> > casualties. We have taken an entire nation the size of California,
> > including a city of 5 million. Saddam and his sons used to eat more
> > civilians for breakfast than died in this war.
> Eat more for breakfast?! this is macho BS.
I thought it was hyperbole.
> Is there a semi-accurate count of deaths in Iraq caused by Saddam's
> regime?
We'll have a rough idea in the near future as the Iraqi people tell
their stories and documentation becomes available.
> If so, it's hardly more than a thousand a week...
Tens of thousands a year?
> > It's a terrible tragedy that any civilians died, but when looking at
> > this conflict in the context of military history, it is the biggest
> > accomplishment with the smallest loss of innocent life in the history of
> > modern warfare.
> The accomplishment remains to be seen for what it is; conquering
> Saddam's regime was never in doubt.
Yes it was. Many here, yourself included I believe, claimed there would
be massive casualties in some seriously ugly urban warfare. People were
acting like this was going to be Stalingrad. It was more like Grenada.
> Whether this is good for the US or the Middle East is still very much
> an open question. Undoubtedly, citizens of Iraq will be safer under an
> American protectorate than they were under Saddam, but this is not the
> only piece of the puzzle.
>
> Islamic sentiment has been inflamed against the US; Kurds are seeking
> to unite with their turkish brethren (perhaps undermining the one
> functioning Islamic democracy in the region), and Turks are crossing
> the border into northern iraq to keep that from happening; the Shi'ites
> may seek to align with Iran in the South.
>
> Only a fool would think the fall of Baghdad is the end of the story
> here. This is the potential Yugoslavia of the middle east, and we've
> just signed on as the new sheriff in town.
It's gonna be a real mess, no doubt. Worse than the war, as I've said
from the very beginning.
TDV
slenon
versus them mentality does it >not?
That, I can not help. If you did not serve and I did, then I am not
responsible for the differences that such choices create. We have, as you
emphasize, the same happening among those who go to university and those who
don't, those who feel rioting after ball games is ok and those who feel it
isn't. We are a nation marked by differences. Lots of folks want prayer in
schools. I hate that thought. Yet, I will defend your right to pray as you
want as long as you don't inflict it upon me.
But I trust my experience in this matter and while I am sorry the reporters
were injured and killed, such are the fortunes of war. They went there
knowing this could happen and I do not believe that they were targetted. I
believe the troops acted in good faith.
--
Stev Lenon MT(ASCP)
Confused? Listen to the music play!
Save a cow, eat a PETA member
sle...@tampabay.rr.com
http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/index.html/slhomepage92kword.htm