The true dick story as posted on DNC...
Veggi hed
twice about buying his "picks".....
*********
The Big Bopper - 08:07pm Jan 7, 1999 PDT (#1301 of 1674) I love "garage"
Dancin's
Being Jewish, I HATE all Nazis.
Dick Latvala - 12:39pm Jan 10, 1999 PDT (#1429 of 1674)
In regard to post #1309, by the Big Bopper, i have to say that "not only do I
hate all Jews, I hate all Nazis, but I hate all spics niggers wopes cunts and
most specialally Jew-fucks from the city of New York City, who think they have
the answers to all questions related to the G.D. If you idiots think that you
are somehow uniquer and special, then I say that you are full of shit. There
are only human beings, and all those other dvisions such as race, gender,
nationality, are only excuses to continue to divide us. So screw you rscist ass
wipes.
****
Dick Latvala - 11:20pm Jan 14, 1999 PDT (#1718 of 1718)
I have several apologies to confess. Firstly, I have not posted something
sooner because I have been feeling like I have committed something awful, like
having tortured a cat or something like that. Since January 10th when I posted
that message, I have been trying to come to terms with myself regarding what I
said, and I felt it necessary to read all the posts that ensued, so that I
would have a solid sense of what I have done. And, as you know, there have been
quite a few comments since that time! Since it doesn't appear that the
reactions are going away, I thought that I should just start out talking about
what was going on in my mind at the time, and just maybe some explanations will
surface.
The statements that I made really had nothing to do with anyone in particular,
especially not the Bopper. I was primarily reacting to some past emotions about
tapers and their need to get the tapes that they desire at almost any cost. I
have been getting frustrated about reading hundreds of pages consisting of who
owes who tapes, rather than commentary on the nature of the music. Another
thing that has especially bothered me is that "Latvala's Corner" amd "OMGWAMS"
has seemingly turned into some kind of boy scouts club, where the operative
expression is "ensuction". In other words, we have as a record of our
discourses that sounds like a bunch of juvenile delinquents rambling about
their sexual proclivities. It also seemed that many of the more intelligent
posters have just taken leaves of absence. I realize that I could have tried
stimulating the discussions, but I don't feel right about directing the flows
that develop.
So, my second apology is to all of the individuals that I have offended by the
gross language that I chose to make a point. And that point is probably well
understood by now after all the various posts that tried to put my comments
into some kind of perspective. Those people that tried to cover for me, like
Rob and Tom and Jim Wise and several others of you that seemed to understand my
drift were somewhat of a consolation, but I couldn't shake the feeling that I
had really done a poor job at my primary goal of trying to get everyone to see
that the only quality that will insure peace is a sense of one's humanity, and
that any other ways of identifying oneself (i.e., democrat, male, or female or
nationality and skin color) are exactly the reasons that we can feel so
different from each other. I made a huge mistake that night and I hope that
somehow we will be able to get passed this, and get back to that thing that we
all do so well which is talk about the Grateful Dead. I no longer think
anything that I said was humorous, and I feel a bit dirty about it all.
There are some other things that I could bring up in this context, but I feel
that I have at least made an initial attempt to explain myself. Obviously I
will respond to any specifics that any of you may want to bring up, but I have
shot my wad for now. I guess that I will understand any permanent rejection by
some of you, but my hopes are that you will try and forgive my distasteful
diatribe. Thank you for trying to understand. (end of post on DNC)
joel c marckx
think
: twice about buying his "picks".....
Sorry folks, I know this has been a difficult time for some, but it's still
the Grateful Dead's music. Dick is not the only one to profit from those
CD's, so it's not like you're going to *get him back* for his statements.
Besides, I want to hear every show in CD quality!!!
I'll never invite him to my Family's house for Thanksgiving dinner, but I'm
still buying the CD's!!!
joel
Snepog
>still buying the CD's!!!
Joel hit the nail on the head, so what if Dick is an asshole, he still puts
out great "greatful dead" shows. I dont care if its "hitler's hits" if its a
high quality dead show on cd, its getting my 15 bucks!
toonda,
fenTon
Judd L
high quality dead show on cd, its getting my 15 bucks!
that is a pathetic comment.
Snepog <sne...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990117033731...@ng-fw1.aol.com...
Steve McHenry
> I dont care if its "hitler's hits"
"Honey, would you please put on that swinging new SS Marching Band cd?
I'd just love to hear that phat 3/26/38 of 'Deutschland Uber Alles'"
Steve
Corky
you don't like is withholding your spending power. Don't fund shit you
don't agree with...
For me this case won't affect my purchase...I won't stop buying a Dick's
pick if I wanted one just because he is truly a "Dick"... but with real
serious and fucked up things I regularly watch where my money goes..
Jonathan
time)?"
A dangerous path you're starting down...
On 17 Jan 1999 08:37:31 GMT, sne...@aol.com (Snepog) wrote:
>>I'll never invite him to my Family's house for Thanksgiving dinner, but I'm
>>still buying the CD's!!!
>
joel c marckx
: pick if I wanted one just because he is truly a "Dick"... but with real
: serious and fucked up things I regularly watch where my money goes..
Yeah. People need to think to themselves..."Were my Nike's or Reeboks made
in a sweatshop in Taiwan?" "Does the produce I bought at the supermarket
come from a field full of migrant workers making $2.00 per hour?"
Dick may be a dick, but there are dick's everywhere. I know that doesn't
make it right, but let's not be hypocrites!
joel
MindSpring User
it I wanted to put my $.02 worth. I have several points i would like to
make.
#1-We are ALL prejudiced....all of us. EVERYBODY has preformed, preconcived
notions and ideas about people based on race, gender, religion, sexual
preference, type of dress, hair length, weight.....you name it. Anyone who
denies this is a liar. I do, and I have to fight the urge to to succumb to
my baser instincts every day. I try not to think that way but sometimes I
find myself falling into the trap of relating to someone based on a
perception(MY PERCEPTION)
that may or may not be the way someone really is...and probably isn't
#2-Everybody at some point or another in their life says something that they
regret the moment that it leaves their mouth, place it in the mailbox or
click the send button. I have on numerous occasions said things that were
hurtful or hateful or thoughtless......and always regretted imediately. It
always comes out in anger, sometimes BECAUSE I know that it will hurt and
anger and sometimes without thought to reaction that my words will have.
#3-It does show character when someone recognizes their mistake and owns up
to it.....Dick
has apologised for his for his insensitive comments, and IMHO should be
forgiven. Let bygones by bygones and move on. Dick is an important member of
our community and has
put together some great music for everybodys enjoyment. I am not a religous
person but i am a spiritual one and Jesus said "Let those without sin cast
the first stone". Without forgiveness you become a bitter soul and part of
the problem instead of the solution
peace
Scot
volk...@mindspring.com.nospam
Veggi hed wrote in message <19990116174726...@ng-ch1.aol.com>...
>someone had to post it again.....this is unbelievable..i hope you wil all
think
>twice about buying his "picks".....
>
Gitzy
Corky wrote in message ...
... but with real
>serious and fucked up things I regularly watch where my money goes..
still, you fill yer gas tank, no?
Gypsyman3
particulary disgusting and has no place in our community. What makes it worse
is that he is a member of the Grateful Dead family. Regardless of the context,
what he said was terrible and sickening. And his lame apology where he
feels; "Awful, like having tortured a cat or something," is also disturbing.
Dick wants us to "understand" where he was coming from when he made his post.
Like all racists, it is apparent that Dick still doesn't "get it." I'm sorry,
but "I'm sorry," just doesn't cut it. There can be no other choise. The truth
is, that Dick Latvala represents THE GRATEFUL DEAD ORGANIZATION in his capacity
of keeper of the vault. The Grateful Dead must distance themselves from this
loose cannon and do the right thing. They must act swiftly and fire his racist
ass.
No apologies needed!
Tim
>
> Dick Latvala has crossed the line here.
<warning rant on>
First Dick claimed to respond to post #1309 by
the Big Bopper which reads:
"I am not Elmer Fudd - I always thought he was Scott Banfield."
In this context Mr. Latvala's lack of discussion of WB characters
is quite puzzling, and the inclusion of a racist remarks even
more so.
But the Big Bopper said in post #1301
"Being Jewish, I hate Nazis".
I assume Dick made a typo (given other contents of the post not
a far fetched assumption).
Let's take out the noun's of Big Bopper's post and it distills to:
"Being X, I hate Y".
Dick responded "Not only do I hate X and Y, I hate <offensive
spew edited>... We are all human beings".
Doesn't anybody else get that Dick's gut instinct, which
some are calling "racist" was to look at a post that
says "Being X, I therefore hate Y". Doesn't such a blanket
statement offended you? It appears to have offended Dick.
Why not say "Being white, I hate blacks"? Would this
not offend you? How about "Being heterosexual, I hate gays".
Is that okay?
Now give that the Big Bopper also named a post:
"Take THAT You 70's Nazi's"
A regular reader could think that his use of the word "Nazi"
was expandable beyond the the Third Reich and include all
those who prefer 1970's Dead shows. This new use of
post: "Being Jewish, I hate Nazis" expandable into:
"Being Jewish I have all those who push 1970's shows on me".
By the over use of the word "Nazi" Big Bopper's post has
itself many interpretations. While the above interpretation is
somewhat silly, it never the less follows by his caviler
use of the word "Nazi".
So you have problems with the Big Bopper's post:
1. His logic can be expanded into saying that because
you are part of one group it is acceptable and even
perhaps expected to hate another group. This would
bring the ire of many.
2. The group in which the Big Bopper's hate is focused
on, Nazi's, has been expanded to include Dick himself
by none other than the Big Bopper.
So I ask given the above what is your response to:
"Being Jewish, I hate Nazis."
Why does it offend so many people that a person, given what
I have stated about, would find this offensive? He himself
probably (at the time) felt he was included in the Big
Bopper's hatred.
Dick was responding by saying if you hate anybody why
not hate all? Why draw the line? Once you start hating, you have
crossed the line. He "showed" us this. Agreed his method in
relating this message was poor beyond belief. Agreed he used
words that triggers a response of anger and hatred, but he was
responding to hatred just as so many of you responded to his
response in hatred. Does this chain of hatred have to remain
unbroken? Can't you see that your own responses confirm part of
what Dick was trying, in apparent vain, to say?
If you still feel that Dick did wrong then please try and
response with kindness not hatred. Try and break the circle that
Dick expanded which the Big Bopper started, not in seriousness, but as
a flippant remarked which Dick took the wrong way. Is this all
worth the wrath which as sense followed?
<rant off>
tim
Tim
lines due the use of "cut and paste". For those
who care here is my thoughts restored:
a the term Nazi could make the contents of the post
"Being Jewish, I hate Nazis" expandable into:
"Being Jewish I hate all those who push 1970's shows on me".
Doug Otto
[snip]
> But the Big Bopper said in post #1301
>
> "Being Jewish, I hate Nazis".
[snip]
> Why not say "Being white, I hate blacks"?
Are you sure you need the difference between these two remarks
explained?
......Douger
"No need to worry the jury,
they'll probably take care of themselves"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
douger...@unix.asb.com - remove .bounce to email
http://www.gdlists.org/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Aiko2x
>Tim (trying to make a point) wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>> But the Big Bopper said in post #1301
>>
>> "Being Jewish, I hate Nazis".
>
>[snip]
>
>> Why not say "Being white, I hate blacks"?
>
>
>Are you sure you need the difference between these two remarks
>explained?
>
>......Douger
Hey Douger
Good question
Peace
Larry
Gitzy
Tim wrote in message
>Doesn't anybody else get that Dick's gut instinct, which
>some are calling "racist" was to look at a post that
>says "Being X, I therefore hate Y".
man, why are you jumping through such tiny hoops to defend this asshole?
Gitzy
I don't know why but I took offense at Dick head's use of his right to free
speech. I may be over sensitive, but I took it personally. Somehow I felt
like
he was directing his invective at me, rather than at intolerant drunks, as
was clearly the case. Why can't I overstand that this man is trying to rid
the world of evil and racism by railing at jew fucks from new york? it's
obvious that he is doing more for the world (as the rest of us mere mortals
know it) than just imposing his brilliant INSIDERS vision of what the
grateful dead's music REALLY "means". It is always the tiny minds that
misunderstand the genius' pronouncements. I must look beyond my petty
greviances and learn to cast aspersions upon all Jew Fucks just as this
humble servent of the dead head community does. I must learn to rail
against myself too, i guess, who am I to doubt the wisdom of the masters?
Ah, the masters guarding the masters. The symetry of genius! "Jew fucks
go to the ovens!": my humble attempt at emulating the great one. Free
speech is great! Why make him pay? He is giving wisdom freely! Nimble
minds are springing to his defense! Clearly this is the wave of the future.
I
propose the next DicksPicable: "A Garden Full of Jew Fucks" Madison
Square Garden '81. ('80 was a good show too)
Steve Weiss
>
> Snepog wrote:
> > I dont care if its "hitler's hits"
>
> I'd just love to hear that phat 3/26/38 of 'Deutschland Uber Alles'"
Actually, the string quartet version recorded as, "The Kaiser Quartet"
by J Haydn, is better than the SS Marching Band version.
-S
--
"If you watch TV news, you know less about the world than if you just
drank
gin straight from the bottle." - Garrison Keillor