Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss

Phrasing emphasizing coloration

0 views
Skip to first unread message

Jeff DeMarco

unread,
Dec 4, 2009, 8:09:08 PM12/4/09
to earl...@wu-wien.ac.at
I am fortunate enough to be singing the tenor part of "Ther is no rose
of swych vertu" in an upcoming concert. (15th c. England). Most of you
are probably familiar with this piece. Just for fun, I took a look at
the digital image of the manuscript Cambridge O.3.58 which contains an
instance of the setting (the only one?), and noticed that there is
coloration in the verse in the tenor part. (I am a bit confused as to
the coloration, as there does not appear to be an actual shortening of
the note values if the transcription is to add up.) It is in the Latin
line of the verse, beginning at the third syllable and consisting of
two minims going into a ligature that translates as two semi-breves
(leading upward stem). My question is this: Does the coloration
influence the phrasing? Specifically, my own vocal talents are not
sufficient to make it to the end of the line without a breath. I had
been breathing after the non-colored semi-breve just following the
coloration and before the four minims that lead to the cadence. I am
wondering if there is any musicological reason to breath between the
coloration and the following note instead to emphasize the grouping of
three as a phrase.

Here is a link to the digital image:
http://www.diamm.ac.uk/jsp/DisplayImage.jsp?imageKey=346

If you don't have an account, you can quickly set up a free one by
going to the MyDIAMM tab. It is a wonderful resource.

Thanks!

Jeff DeMarco

John Howell

unread,
Dec 4, 2009, 10:37:16 PM12/4/09
to Jeff DeMarco, earl...@wu-wien.ac.at
At 5:09 PM -0800 12/4/09, Jeff DeMarco wrote:
>I am fortunate enough to be singing the tenor part of "Ther is no rose
>of swych vertu" in an upcoming concert. (15th c. England). Most of you
>are probably familiar with this piece. Just for fun, I took a look at
>the digital image of the manuscript Cambridge O.3.58 which contains an
>instance of the setting (the only one?), and noticed that there is
>coloration in the verse in the tenor part. (I am a bit confused as to
>the coloration, as there does not appear to be an actual shortening of
>the note values if the transcription is to add up.) It is in the Latin
>line of the verse, beginning at the third syllable and consisting of
>two minims going into a ligature that translates as two semi-breves
>(leading upward stem). My question is this: Does the coloration
>influence the phrasing? Specifically, my own vocal talents are not
>sufficient to make it to the end of the line without a breath. I had
>been breathing after the non-colored semi-breve just following the
>coloration and before the four minims that lead to the cadence. I am
>wondering if there is any musicological reason to breath between the
>coloration and the following note instead to emphasize the grouping of
>three as a phrase.

Wow, what faded, smeared, difficult-to-read manuscript! It took me
a while to locate the place you referred to, since there are at least
3 examples of coloration on that page, but I finally spotted the
ligature. I have to say that I can't read a single word of the text,
but I have to remind you that you CANNOT assume that any apparent
text underlay in a ms.--or in a print, for that matter--is a true
underlay.

Looking at all 3 examples of coloration on that page, I would have to
guess that they indeed do not indicate a change in mensuration. (So
much for Philip de Vitry!) It seems much more likely that they
indicate what we would today call a shift in emphasis, or hemiola.
But since the notes immediately after the passage you cited are
totally unreadable, and there's no indication of a rest/breath mark
in the cantus to match the one that may or may not be in the tenor
after the red ligature, it's difficult to imagine how it continues.
(And I did NOT look at the transcription, since I didn't want to be
influenced by it.)

As far a phrasing goes, I think it has to be a 2-part answer. The
composer started with the text, so we have to assume that the notes
fit with the syllables. The scribe did not necessarily keep that
relationship clear--indeed may not have been a musician at all. So
the only way we can approach it today is to make very sure of the
note values, very sure of the phrasing implied by the notes, and then
reverse-engineer the text to fit the notes.

Your breath extension depends entirely on how fast you take the
music, of course, so you can't really use that as a factor in
planning your phrasing. Too slow a tempo and you'll run out of
breath. But I don't see a mensuration sign anyplace, so we're
missing the very basic information that might suggest an intended
tempo. And you CANNOT just take the tempo you've heard on people's
recordings, because there was remarkably little recording equipment
in the 15th century. In fact we're looking at it!!!!

If one interpretation of coloration doesn't make sense in the work of
a particular scribe, it's simply necessary to try a different
interpretation. Consider the hemiola interpretation and see whether
it makes musical sense to you. After all: (1) they didn't use or
think in bar lines (although they DID think in perfections); and (2)
every composer was trained as a boy in chant interpretation, which
makes all polyphony a combination of different single-line phrasings
and not a single, bar-line-mediated phrasing in all parts.

All the best,

John

--
John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music
Virginia Tech Department of Music
College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences
Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240
Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034
(mailto:John....@vt.edu)
http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html

"We never play anything the same way once." Shelly Manne's definition
of jazz musicians.

Jeff DeMarco

unread,
Dec 4, 2009, 11:26:03 PM12/4/09
to John Howell, earl...@wu-wien.ac.at
Hi John,

Thanks for all of your thoughts. I'm surprised you don't know this
piece, as it is a real chestnut. A couple of things. I think you are
right about the hemiola/coloration assessment. Assuming that to be the
case, do you think a phrase break after the hemiola is preferable to
one one note later. I agree that the ms is particularly hard to read
in this image. However, if you look carefully, you can see that the
first note after the hemiola is a semi-breve C (and I'm not attempting
to reflect the correct octave in my notation) followed by four minims
A C B G cadencing on an F bottom space. Despite the lack of a
mensuration sign, the piece is pretty clearly in triple meter given
the several occurrences of two minim rests followed by a minim.

Also, the text underlay is interesting. The "lu" syllable of
"alleluia" (and equivalent syllables in subsequent verses) is clearly
placed under the first note (F) in the coloration. This seems
intentional, as opposed to just writing the whole word at the
beginning of the line.

I'm wondering if there is another ms with this same piece, as most
transcriptions I see have a third part in the burden.

Again, my question is whether or not to use the end of the hemiola as
a phrasing point to take a breath, or if that is an irrelevant
consideration.

(Isn't that DIAMM site great?)


Jeff DeMarco

John Howell

unread,
Dec 5, 2009, 12:05:52 AM12/5/09
to Jeff DeMarco, earl...@wu-wien.ac.at
At 8:26 PM -0800 12/4/09, Jeff DeMarco wrote:
>Hi John,
>
>Thanks for all of your thoughts. I'm surprised you don't know this
>piece, as it is a real chestnut.

Oh, I know it, and we've performed it, of course. Just last year, I
think, or the year before. But I'd never seen the ms., just the
transcription in the Musica Britanica volume, which is what we've
used.

>A couple of things. I think you are
>right about the hemiola/coloration assessment. Assuming that to be the
>case, do you think a phrase break after the hemiola is preferable to
>one one note later.

My feeling about that is that the phrasing has to go to the cadences,
which are pretty regular with an occasional extension (like in just
that place!). So if there isn't a cadence after the ligature, I
probably wouldn't take a break there. Of course if there's
punctuation there (not in the original, of course, but possibly in a
modern rendering of the English/Latin), that's a different story. So
again, it's a combination of the music phrasing and the text phrasing.

>I agree that the ms is particularly hard to read
>in this image. However, if you look carefully, you can see that the
>first note after the hemiola is a semi-breve C (and I'm not attempting
>to reflect the correct octave in my notation) followed by four minims
>A C B G cadencing on an F bottom space.

Are you sure you're reading the right clef? What I seem to see,
although it's faint, is a semibreve G followed by four minims D(?) F
E D cadencing on C bottom space. But it also looks like a semi-minim
rest before the semibreve G (????). (I discovered the "Digitally
enhanced image, which makes it a LITTLE clearer.)

>Despite the lack of a
>mensuration sign, the piece is pretty clearly in triple meter given
>the several occurrences of two minim rests followed by a minim.

Oh, sure, it's in perfect time all right--which makes the hemiola
concept likely--but the question would be whether it's tempus
perfection or tempus perfection diminutum, which would be faster if
not twice as fast. (That's another "absolute" interpretation that
doesn't necessarily always work in practice.)

>
>Also, the text underlay is interesting. The "lu" syllable of
>"alleluia" (and equivalent syllables in subsequent verses) is clearly
>placed under the first note (F) in the coloration. This seems
>intentional, as opposed to just writing the whole word at the
>beginning of the line.

Maybe and maybe not. Don't forget that the same text underlay has to
work for BOTH staves, and the two staves are NOT lined up perfectly
by any means. Closer than some mss., but still not perfectly. I
have a healthy respect for the ability of scribes to mess things up!

>
>I'm wondering if there is another ms with this same piece, as most
>transcriptions I see have a third part in the burden.

You're right, now that I think of it. There are at least two
possibilities. The third part could be in un-notated faburden, which
they would have added on the fly. I'd have to check the Musica
Britanica transcription to see whether they notated it that way. Or
it could have been present in another ms., which would strongly
suggest the existence of at least one other ms. if not more.

>
>Again, my question is whether or not to use the end of the hemiola as
>a phrasing point to take a breath, or if that is an irrelevant
>consideration.

Well, if you're correct that the word there is "alleluia" (and I
think you absolutely are, after staring at it in the enhanced
reading), you'd be breathing in the middle of a word, right? And
that's a no-no! Unless that flyspeck really is a semi-minim rest, of
course, but then you'd really have to rethink the underlay of the
"alleluia" and repeat it, because that longa on the end is definitely
a final cadence.

>
>(Isn't that DIAMM site great?)

I'm chagrined that I didn't even know about it, but it's been too
many years since grad school! Yes, it seems to be amazing, although
it took me a while to figure out the navigation rubrics to move
around the page. They make sense once you know how to use them.

John

Jeff DeMarco

unread,
Dec 5, 2009, 9:39:29 AM12/5/09
to John Howell, earl...@wu-wien.ac.at
Thanks for all the detailed analysis, John. I'm pretty sure the MB
transcription does not indicated the unnotated fauxburdon, as some of
the other carols have.

You're right about the clef, of course. It's a C5, and cadences on C.
I spaced out because we're singing it in F, and I was concentrating on
the rhythmic points in my post. My bad. (Hate that expression!)

Let me remind you of my original post - I acknowledged that in an
ideal world there should be no breath in that line. However, my vocal
abilities are insufficient, and I must breathe at some point. I had
been breathing between the semi-breve G and the minims. My question is
whether musically the phrase would work better to breathe between the
colored hemiola and the semi-breve G.

Speaking of breathing during a word, there are plenty of times that
that is acceptable. There are dozens (if not hundreds) of incidences
in Bach where a single word has an extremely long melisma, and then
there's the Kyrie from the Machaut mass that has almost the entire
movement sung on the "Ky" syllable. As my voice teacher once (or
probably thousands of times, really) put it - you want the listener
not to think "he's taken a breath," rather "what nuanced phrasing!"

Jeff DeMarco

0 new messages