"Song" v. work, or piece, etc., Does this bother you?
scsigurl2020
is, if it's *not* a song -- if it's *not* an aria, or art song, or
country song, or pop song, etc. Granted, the pieces in the Suzuki book
are "songs" up to but not including the first Minuets. And I can
accept that. But why call a symphony or sonata or even an opera a
"song?"
I have this odd prejudice that the use of language precisely is an
indication of intellectual development. And I will be the first to
admit my own use of language is far from perfect. But this bothers me.
Anyone else?
Paul Magnussen
Funny you should mention that: I've started a discussion about it on the
Amazon reviewers discussion list.
Yes, it drives me crazy. But it seems only to be American usage.
Paul Magnussen
John Howell
>Does it bother you when people call a piece of music a "song"? That
>is, if it's *not* a song -- if it's *not* an aria, or art song, or
>country song, or pop song, etc. Granted, the pieces in the Suzuki book
>are "songs" up to but not including the first Minuets. And I can
>accept that. But why call a symphony or sonata or even an opera a
>"song?"
Of course it bothers me! But I teach a Survey of Music course for
non-music majors (but required for Music Minors)--in other words, for
general students who may have no background in classical music or its
terminology at all--and they use the only words they are familiar
with even though they are incorrect.
I do attempt to educate them. Even the way of typing the name of a
complete piece as opposed to the names of its individual movements is
foreign to them, as is the concept that a single piece can have
several movements, but I relate it to the use of typography in
speaking about books, chapters, and articles in journals: Italics
for the overall title, quotation marks for individual parts of the
larger work.
>
>I have this odd prejudice that the use of language precisely is an
>indication of intellectual development. And I will be the first to
>admit my own use of language is far from perfect. But this bothers me.
As it should. I would jump on music majors for making this mistake.
But for the general population, I can't expect them to be familiar
with the particular jargon that we use almost without thinking about
it. And that's true of EVERY field, because every field has its
jargon that communicates very precisely to others in the field, but
fails to communicate those differences to those outside the field.
When I sat on the College of Arts and Sciences Curriculum Committee,
it was a constant fight to get new course proposals to include a
catalog course description that was NOT dependent on jargon, and some
professors in some fields simply couldn't understand the problem, or
communicate without their familiar jargon.
John
--
John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music
Virginia Tech Department of Music
College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences
Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240
Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034
(mailto:John....@vt.edu)
http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html
"We never play anything the same way once." Shelly Manne's definition
of jazz musicians.
Jethro Van Thuyne
scsigurl2020 wrote:
>> I have this odd prejudice that the use of language precisely is an
>> indication of intellectual development. And I will be the first to
>> admit my own use of language is far from perfect. But this bothers me.
Why shouldn't it bother you? A lot of people are using incorrect words,
day after day, without realizing what they are saying. I cannot see any
reason not to correct them. There is nothing wrong with accurate
terminology.
Paul Magnussen wrote:
> Yes, it drives me crazy. But it seems only to be American usage.
In Dutch and Flemish, the exact same thing occurs. A lot of people
(mostly young people) use the word "liedje" (= song) for any piece of
music. I think there might be a certain shyness holding them back from
using the correct word, if they are vaguely familiar with the terminology.
Jethro.
John Howell
>
>Yes, it drives me crazy. But it seems only to be American usage.
That may be true, but from an American's point of view I would call
it rather a pop culture usage. "Songs" are what they know, and ALL
they know. (Aside from movie sound tracks, of course, but those
don't come with bothersome titles and subtitles! And technically
they're known as "cues," not symphonic movements.)
erilar
<4ce7dc1a-22d2-4d7e...@k33g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>,
scsigurl2020 <sunmusi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Does it bother you when people call a piece of music a "song"? That
> is, if it's *not* a song -- if it's *not* an aria, or art song, or
> country song, or pop song, etc. Granted, the pieces in the Suzuki book
> are "songs" up to but not including the first Minuets. And I can
> accept that. But why call a symphony or sonata or even an opera a
> "song?"
There are people who do that? How infantile!
>
> I have this odd prejudice that the use of language precisely is an
> indication of intellectual development. And I will be the first to
> admit my own use of language is far from perfect. But this bothers me.
>
> Anyone else?
I've never encountered it, but I would likely laugh in the person's
face if I did.
--
Erilar, biblioholic
bib-li-o-hol-ism [<Gr biblion] n. [BIBLIO + HOLISM] books, of books:
habitual longing to purchase, read, store, admire, and consume books in excess.
scsigurl2020
URL?
Alain Naigeon
list
>
> URL?
URL, ... please ?
Just to help you getting the answer (that I haven't) ;-)
--
Fran�ais *==> "Musique renaissance" <==* English
midi - facsimiles - ligatures - mensuration
http://anaigeon.free.fr | http://www.medieval.org/emfaq/anaigeon/
Alain Naigeon - anai...@free.fr - Oberhoffen/Moder, France
http://fr.youtube.com/user/AlainNaigeon
mikea
Yes, rather. I've been involved in early music for a long time, and was
an early promoter of it in a group that IIRC Erilar and I both belong
to. I'm also a late-middle-aged fuddy-duddy, and was a young fuddy-duddy
when I started, and have hated that usage all this time.
"Tune" I will accept. "Song"? No, thanks very much.
--
Mike Andrews, W5EGO
mi...@mikea.ath.cx
Tired old sysadmin
Paul Magnussen
>>> Amazon reviewers discussion list
> URL?
Paul Magnussen
Sal Salvaggio
--- On Thu, 10/1/09, scsigurl2020 <sunmusi...@gmail.com> wrote:
Anyone else?
_______________________________________________
earlym-l mailing list
earl...@wu-wien.ac.at
https://lists.wu-wien.ac.at/mailman/listinfo/earlym-l
Oliver Webber
it a US thing? Or do I mix with the wrong types...?
Oliver
On 2 Oct, 00:53, mikea <mi...@mikea.ath.cx> wrote:
howard posner
On Oct 4, 2009, at 1:20 PM, Oliver Webber wrote:
> I'm pretty sure it would bother me, too - but I've never heard it! Is
> it a US thing? Or do I mix with the wrong types...?
The types you mix with say "fong."
scsigurl2020
think this is funny; if you don't, you have no sense of humor:
• Open Question: What is the name of this violin music? I don't know
where it's from or how to explain it but it sounds dramatic. Any
guesses you might have would be helpful. =] (Ed. note: no link
included in question)
• Open Question: need a new classical violin song to learn. any
suggestions? Just for background: ive been playing for 12 years. some
songs im learning are : bach partita III, bruch concerto, mozart
concerto V, rode caprices
• Open Question: songs for the violin? ok well i dont take violin
lessons any more cuz my skool doesnt have them so i was wondering if
anyone new any websites with songs on them but no too hard ons and not
too easy thx!!!!!
from Humorous Questions
http://beststudentviolins.com/Quik_FAQ.html#Humor
Note: In case anyone cares to suggest that these are anecdotal
examples, that would be true if these examples were evident only a few
times in every few days. But let me disabuse you of that notion.
YahooAnswers has a function whereby you can request an RSS feed on a
word or phrase. I have RSS feeds on violin, viola, piano, orchestra
and musicology. There are hundreds of such ill-conceived missives,
every single day.
Does it bother me that most people appear not to be able to spell,
follow simple rules of grammar, or think logically? There's not much
I can about it, so no.
Does it bother you?
Alain Naigeon
83d0de7f-979d-4cf5...@m33g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...
Does it bother me that most people appear not to be able to spell,
follow simple rules of grammar, or think logically? There's not much
I can about it, so no.
Does it bother you?
In deade eat doz.