Report- Bob Dylan to tour China and Korea in April
52stations
http://www.examiner.com/x-21829-Bob-Dylan-Examiner~y2010m1d6-Rumor--Bob-Dylan-to-tour-China-and-Korea-in-April
Mr Jinx
> Report- Bob Dylan to tour China and Korea in Aprilhttp://www.examiner.com/x-21829-Bob-Dylan-Examiner~y2010m1d6-Rumor--B...
Korea Korea, gal where you been so long?
Mr Jinx
really real
> Report- Bob Dylan to tour China and Korea in April
> http://www.examiner.com/x-21829-Bob-Dylan-Examiner~y2010m1d6-Rumor--Bob-Dylan-to-tour-China-and-Korea-in-April
Amazing that Bob will finally penetrate the bamboo curtain.
When the Stones played China, they were given a list of songs they
weren't allowed to play, including Let's Spend The Night Together.
What will Bob do when they tell him he can't play Talking John Birch?
Mr Jinx
> > Report- Bob Dylan to tour China and Korea in April
>
> Amazing that Bob will finally penetrate the bamboo curtain.
>
> When the Stones played China, they were given a list of songs they
> weren't allowed to play, including Let's Spend The Night Together.
>
> What will Bob do when they tell him he can't play Talking John Birch?
It's not about the songs; it's a marketing push for SUVs.
Mr Jinx
khematite
> > Report- Bob Dylan to tour China and Korea in April
>
> Amazing that Bob will finally penetrate the bamboo curtain.
>
> When the Stones played China, they were given a list of songs they
> weren't allowed to play, including Let's Spend The Night Together.
>
> What will Bob do when they tell him he can't play Talking John Birch?
The ChiComs killed John Birch. They shouldn't have any problem with
the song.
Just Walkin'
> Report- Bob Dylan to tour China and Korea in Aprilhttp://www.examiner.com/x-21829-Bob-Dylan-Examiner~y2010m1d6-Rumor--B...
Beyond the horizon is where he'll be...
really real
>> When the Stones played China, they were given a list of songs they
>> weren't allowed to play, including Let's Spend The Night Together.
>>
>> What will Bob do when they tell him he can't play Talking John Birch?
>
>
> The ChiComs killed John Birch. They shouldn't have any problem with
> the song.
Don't underestimate the inscrutability of the ChiCom mind. Keith
Richards figured out that the reason they wouldn't allow Let's Spend the
Night Together is that it was banned from the Ed Sullivan show. I bet
Talking John Birch will be on the top of the ChiCom list of banned songs.
adamlynn
> Report- Bob Dylan to tour China and Korea in Aprilhttp://www.examiner.com/x-21829-Bob-Dylan-Examiner~y2010m1d6-Rumor--B...
Bob Dylan has always championed the individual.
The mere concept of the individual is an anathema
to the rulers of China. If there was ever any doubt,
the recent execution of Akmal Shaikh starkly
demonstrates that the government of China is
morally bankrupt. Remember Sun City? Boycott China!
http://www.thelinkpaper.ca/index.php?subaction=showfull&id=1262638050&archive=&start_from=&ucat=1
crazytimes
Nah... A country like China needs Dylan to play there... Maybe there
will be a cult of Bob Dylan after he's been there and gone... A cult
of several million wouldn't be bad... He needs to do a little bigger
tour there, though; 2 cities on the mainland ain't much... 'Average'
provincial cities there nowadays are of the 7-million-people variety...
really real
>
> Bob Dylan has always championed the individual.
> The mere concept of the individual is an anathema
> to the rulers of China. If there was ever any doubt,
> the recent execution of Akmal Shaikh starkly
> demonstrates that the government of China is
> morally bankrupt. Remember Sun City? Boycott China!
>
> http://www.thelinkpaper.ca/index.php?subaction=showfull&id=1262638050&archive=&start_from=&ucat=1
It would be nice if we could boycott every country that executes people
who obviously shouldn't have been executed, but even if such boycotts
were possible, we really can't afford to lose the economic disadvantages
of not having their cheap labour to make our stuff.
As a Canadian, I certainly don't like the way the country to the south
of me executes children, but economically and culturally, a boycott
would be totally out of the question.
Janice
> Bob Dylan has always championed the individual.
> The mere concept of the individual is an anathema
> to the rulers of China. If there was ever any doubt,
> the recent execution of Akmal Shaikh
>
> http://www.thelinkpaper.ca/index.php?subaction=showfull&id=1262638050...
Geez... echoes of Midnight Express...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35es5cSX_7Y
~`~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
badlands420
> As a Canadian, I certainly don't like the way the country to the south
> of me executes children,
When did this happen?
really real
>> As a Canadian, I certainly don't like the way the country to the south
>> of me executes children,
>
> When did this happen?
They got arrested for crimes when they were children and then they were
executed.
badlands420
> They got arrested for crimes when they were children and then they were
> executed.
By the United States?
M. Rick
Let's say at age 16 I go on a killing spree and murder 16 Canadian
tourists. I'm arrested, convicted and sentenced to the death
penalty. Bob Dylan writes a song in my defense. Judge Jinx, a big
Dylan fan, is so moved by the song that he throws out the death
penalty and sentences me to 50 years in prison, with the stipulation
that I devote my life to Dylan and Bible study. Is that really better
than execution?
badlands420
> Let's say at age 16 I go on a killing spree and murder 16 Canadian
> tourists. I'm arrested, convicted and sentenced to the death
> penalty. Bob Dylan writes a song in my defense. Judge Jinx, a big
> Dylan fan, is so moved by the song that he throws out the death
> penalty and sentences me to 50 years in prison, with the stipulation
> that I devote my life to Dylan and Bible study. Is that really better
> than execution?
No, capital punishment is only morally excusable when Fidel Castro does it.
Mr Jinx
Banging my gavel with mirth.
Judge Jinx ;-)
really real
> Let's say at age 16 I go on a killing spree and murder 16 Canadian
> tourists. I'm arrested, convicted and sentenced to the death
> penalty. Bob Dylan writes a song in my defense. Judge Jinx, a big
> Dylan fan, is so moved by the song that he throws out the death
> penalty and sentences me to 50 years in prison, with the stipulation
> that I devote my life to Dylan and Bible study. Is that really better
> than execution?
Why only 50 years in prison? What happened to life without parole or
those thousand year sentences?
The nice thing about not executing people is that you can let people go
free when the DNA test shows an injustice was done. Bring back the
Scotsboro boys!
And in prison, a person can be of great benefit to the state. In
America, you can put them to work doing telephone calls for major companies.
badlands420
> And in prison, a person can be of great benefit to the state. In
> America, you can put them to work doing telephone calls for major
> companies.
"America" this, "America" that, blah blah freaking blah.
I have never encountered a person who was less able to wrap their head
around the concepts of state sovereignty and a representative republic. It
wouldn't be so bad if you didn't try to speak authoritatively on subjects
where your misunderstanding of the American system of government renders
your views utterly nonsensical.
gemjack
wrote:
>Why only 50 years in prison? What happened to life without parole or
>those thousand year sentences?
In cases like that I say just take em out. Particularly when there's
no question of guilt.
-gj
really real
>> Why only 50 years in prison? What happened to life without parole or
>> those thousand year sentences?
>
> In cases like that I say just take em out. Particularly when there's
> no question of guilt.
There's never any question of guilt in the mind of the executioners.
And what's badlands getting so upset about? You'd expect that the
greatest nation in the world would lead the world in many things.
US LEADS WORLD IN EXECUTION OF CHILD OFFENDERS
Amnesty International Press Release 7-22-3
The USA's willingness to execute prisoners for crimes committed when
they were children puts it in a world of its own, Amnesty International
said today, as it published a new report on global adherence to the ban
on the death penalty against child offenders - - those under 18 at the
time of their crimes.
"Two thirds of the world's known executions of child offenders in the
past decade occurred in the USA, including the only four in the past 18
months," Amnesty International said. "This is now the only country that
openly continues to carry out such executions within the framework of
its regular criminal justice system."
"The execution of child offenders has become rare relative to the wider
use of capital punishment, with the USA by far the leading perpetrator."
The organization recorded 22,588 executions in 70 countries between 1994
and 2002. Nineteen of these executions were of child offenders, put to
death in five countries. Twelve of these internationally illegal
killings occurred in the USA.
"Questions have been raised about the USA's commitment to international
standards of justice since 11 September 2001.Here is the prime example
of a longer-standing US tendency to adopt a selective approach to
international human rights law." Amnesty International said.
The international community has adopted four human rights treaties of
worldwide or regional scope which explicitly exclude child offenders
from the death penalty. This exemption is also contained in the Geneva
Conventions and their two Additional Protocols. The ban is so widely
recognized and respected that it has become a principle of customary
international law.
In today's report, Amnesty International calls for the prohibition to be
recognized as a peremptory norm of general international law (jus
cogens), binding on all countries regardless of which treaties they have
or have not ratified, and regardless of any conditions they may have
attached to such ratifications. The Inter-American Commission on Human
Rights reached this conclusion last October in a case of an inmate on
death row in Nevada for crimes committed when he was 16.
"Half a century after the Fourth Geneva Convention was adopted, three
and a half decades since the adoption of the International Covenant on
Civil and Political Rights, and over a decade since the Convention on
the Rights of the Child came into force, it is surely time for the USA
to admit that it is clinging to an unacceptable practice of the past,"
Amnesty International said.
The UN Convention on the Rights of the Child has been ratified by 192
countries, and is the most widely ratified human rights treaty in
history. No state party has entered a specific reservation to its
provision excluding child offenders from the death penalty. The USA made
such a reservation when it ratified the International Covenant on Civil
and Political Rights in 1992. This US reservation has been widely
condemned, including by several other countries as well as the expert
body set up to oversee implementation of the treaty.
Background
In 2002, a US government delegation told the United Nations General
Assembly Special Session on Children that the USA was "the global leader
in child protection". Meanwhile, some 80 prisoners await executions on
US death rows for crimes committed when they were 16 or 17. There is
also concern that a Canadian national currently held at the US Naval
Base in Guantnamo Bay could yet face the death penalty if selected for
trial by military commission. Omar Khadr was reported to have been 15
years old when he was captured in Afghanistan in 2002. He may be a
suspect in the shooting of a US soldier.
gemjack
wrote:
>There's never any question of guilt in the mind of the executioners.
If we're talking a guilty confession, crime on camera, solid
evidence... I don't see the logic of paying for and putting the effort
into keeping someone behind bars for life when they're a threat to a
civilized society. I'm all for being humane and extending empathy but
I'm not so out of it that I don't acknowledge there is true evil
amongst us that actually needs to be eradicated.
>
>And what's badlands getting so upset about? You'd expect that the
>greatest nation in the world would lead the world in many things.
He's likely upset at your somewhat skewed statistics used to support a
biased and fanatical obsession. For example...
>US LEADS WORLD IN EXECUTION OF CHILD OFFENDERS
>Amnesty International Press Release 7-22-3
In the last 10 years Iran has 2-3 times more executions of child
offenders, some as young as 13 or 14. The US is a good 2nd with every
offender being 17 years of age except for one 16 yr old. A 17 yr old
is certainly capable of a crime deserving of the death penalty.
http://www.amnesty.org/en/death-penalty/executions-of-child-offenders-since-1990
-gj
gemjack
wrote:
>US LEADS WORLD IN EXECUTION OF CHILD OFFENDERS
>Amnesty International Press Release 7-22-3
Also, your article is from 2003 or earlier.
You're not half-ass into your causes are you? I know the lack of
desire to look beyond the surface isn't a Canadian thing, look at Neil
Young.
-gj
really real
>> There's never any question of guilt in the mind of the executioners.
>
> If we're talking a guilty confession, crime on camera, solid
> evidence... I don't see the logic of paying for and putting the effort
> into keeping someone behind bars for life when they're a threat to a
> civilized society. I'm all for being humane and extending empathy but
> I'm not so out of it that I don't acknowledge there is true evil
> amongst us that actually needs to be eradicated.
A lot of people get goaded into false confessions. There's no such thing
as mistakes not being made.
Someone who refuses to stop drinking and driving is a threat to
civilized society, but if we killed him, our society would no longer be
civilized.
>> > You're not half-ass into your causes are you? I know the lack of
> desire to look beyond the surface isn't a Canadian thing, look at Neil
> Young.
I just copied out the first article that came up about America executing
children, because badlands seemed to deny there could be such a thing.
It's not one of my causes, I only mentioned it because we tend to judge
China by standards that we don't always live up to.
Like Neil Young, I go from the gut.
badlands420
> And what's badlands getting so upset about?
This is typical for you, announcing that someone else is "upset" rather than
trying to address any of the points raised.
Do you think anyone still doesn't see through your weak-ass tactics after
all these years?
Also, why do you consistently refuse to criticize capital punishment when
it's carried out by countries and governments you claim to like?
badlands420
> A lot of people get goaded into false confessions. There's no such thing
> as mistakes not being made.
First of all, that's a horrible double negative. Second of all, ever heard
of DNA?
> Someone who refuses to stop drinking and driving is a threat to civilized
> society, but if we killed him, our society would no longer be civilized.
This is a typically clumsy RR strawman. I don't recall where anyone
suggested executing drunk drivers.
> I just copied out the first article that came up about America executing
> children, because badlands seemed to deny there could be such a thing.
Sweet jesus, you still don't know what my point was, even after I explained
it. I find it troubling, given how intellectually stunted your thought
processes invariably are, that Canada used to allow you access to
impressionable young minds.
gemjack
wrote:
>I just copied out the first article that came up about America executing
>children, because badlands seemed to deny there could be such a thing.
>It's not one of my causes, I only mentioned it because we tend to judge
>China by standards that we don't always live up to.
But you're ignoring the fact that you're incorrect. As shown, they
were all 17 except for the one 16 yr old. That's not *children*.
After high school I moved to FL and lived on cocoa beach when I was
17. I was no child.
-gj
Just Walkin'
>
> This is a typically clumsy RR strawman. I don't recall where anyone
> suggested executing drunk drivers.
>
routinely executed drunk drivers for years. Why? Because if they were
driving, they must have been a party member (and only party members
had cars) and driving while drunk was considered to be a bad example
and conduct unbecoming of a party member, worthy of execution.
Incidentally, back in those halcyonic Hoxha years, tourists were
required to pick potatoes for at least one week for every four in-
country. Or maybe it was two. It may have depended on which bloc you
hailed from. Anybody know for sure?
badlands420
Not as far fetched as you think. The Enver Hoxha regime in Albania
routinely executed drunk drivers for years. Why? Because if they were
driving, they must have been a party member (and only party members
had cars) and driving while drunk was considered to be a bad example
and conduct unbecoming of a party member, worthy of execution.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I fail to see how this relates to the matter at hand, unless RR really meant
"Albania" when he typed "America."
khematite
> On Fri, 08 Jan 2010 14:56:59 -0800, really real <reallyr...@shaw.ca>
> wrote:
>
> >US LEADS WORLD IN EXECUTION OF CHILD OFFENDERS
> >Amnesty International Press Release 7-22-3
>
> Also, your article is from 2003 or earlier.
>
In fact, quite a different story since 2005:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A62584-2005Mar1.html
really real
> Also, why do you consistently refuse to criticize capital punishment when
> it's carried out by countries and governments you claim to like?
In general, I am opposed to capital punishment. In some issues, like
with Ceaus,escu and his wife, I'm not so sure.
really real
>> A lot of people get goaded into false confessions. There's no such thing
>> as mistakes not being made.
>
> First of all, that's a horrible double negative. Second of all, ever heard
> of DNA?
>
Yes indeed, DNA has been freeing a lot of people who have been serving
life sentences because they really looked guilty at the time.
really real
> Not as far fetched as you think. The Enver Hoxha regime in Albania
> routinely executed drunk drivers for years. Why? Because if they were
> driving, they must have been a party member (and only party members
> had cars) and driving while drunk was considered to be a bad example
> and conduct unbecoming of a party member, worthy of execution.
As much as I'd hate to be the guy pulling the trigger, I think if a
death sentence could function as a deterrent, it might be acceptable.
If you could cut down drunk driving by 900% by executing a few
drunkards, then I think it's worth looking at.
khematite
It's the first 100% that's the easiest. Once you've reduced drunk
driving by 100%, it gets a lot harder to make further reductions.
M. Rick
Those are for Buddhists.
> The nice thing about not executing people is that you can let people go free when the DNA test shows an injustice was done. Bring back the Scotsboro boys! And in prison, a person can be of great benefit to the state. In America, you can put them to work doing telephone calls for major companies.
We could do a prisoner swap with Cuba: five murderers for one "enemy
of the state." Or since you're such a fan of lifetime incarceration
and forced labor, we could make prisoners to build more prisons. As
for me, I would decline the opportunity to serve Jesus or the State,
and go Gary Gilmore.
frinjdwelr
"gemjack" <geminij...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:pqefk5l1p0urebu2e...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 08 Jan 2010 14:56:59 -0800, really real >
> offenders, some as young as 13 or 14. The US is a good 2nd with every
> offender being 17 years of age except for one 16 yr old. A 17 yr old
> is certainly capable of a crime deserving of the death penalty.
>
> http://www.amnesty.org/en/death-penalty/executions-of-child-offenders-since-1990
> -gj
Well gee, being second to Iran is sooooo much better. Three cheers for the
great U.S. of A. on it's status of being less evil than Iran.
badlands420
> In general, I am opposed to capital punishment.
In the past, you've defended Castro's public executions of political
dissidents (i.e. people who have never harmed anyone else) on the grounds
that they were "criminals."
You claim to be a supporter of abortion rights, while ignoring the fact that
abortions are nearly impossible to get in Cuba, and are 100% illegal after
the 10th week of pregnancy.
You claim to be a supporter of gay rights, yet you apparently don't have a
problem with your beloved Castro regime's 50-year track record of
repressing, imprisoning, and executing homosexuals.
gemjack
You'd prefer otherwise? Give us a few years, maybe we can overtake
them again. Seriously though-big difference between executing a 17 yr
old murderer and a 13 yr old. If you can't see it maybe we can just
cover our eyes and all sing Kum ba ya instead.
My point being that RR uses old data to support an untrue claim to
pass his opinion as fact. Unheard-of on usenet!
-gj
gemjack
wrote:
And it's been April 3, 2003 since we've carried it out. It's nice to
think there are alternatives. One thing's for sure though- hard,
violent crimes are being committed by younger people these days. Do
we blame our culture, tv, or non-dylan related music???
-gj
Jumbo
> On Fri, 08 Jan 2010 14:56:59 -0800, really real <reallyr...@shaw.ca>
> wrote:
>
> >There's never any question of guilt in the mind of the executioners.
>
> If we're talking a guilty confession, crime on camera, solid
> evidence... I don't see the logic of paying for and putting the effort
> into keeping someone behind bars for life when they're a threat to a
> civilized society. I'm all for being humane and extending empathy but
> I'm not so out of it that I don't acknowledge there is true evil
> amongst us that actually needs to be eradicated.
If the executed came from across the economic spectrum, this argument
might hold.
really real
>
> In the past, you've defended Castro's public executions of political
> dissidents (i.e. people who have never harmed anyone else) on the grounds
> that they were "criminals."
This is a total lie, of course. There were public executions right after
the war, I think, or was that George Washington who was doing that?
I remember when Castro executed his General friend who had been running
the dope trade. I'm in favour of legalizing all drugs, but if a general
is so corrupt at that level, I can understand why a public execution
might work as a deterrent in this case.
>
> You claim to be a supporter of abortion rights, while ignoring the fact that
> abortions are nearly impossible to get in Cuba, and are 100% illegal after
> the 10th week of pregnancy.
Of course I'm in favour of abortion rights. What maniac wouldn't be in
favour of abortion rights? And if a country has abortion laws I don't
like, then it makes me feel like organizing an invasion of that country!
>
> You claim to be a supporter of gay rights, yet you apparently don't have a
> problem with your beloved Castro regime's 50-year track record of
> repressing, imprisoning, and executing homosexuals.
What did Castro do, put pink stars on the homosexuals and execute them
all? You really do get carried away here with your hate rhetoric, don't you?
The repression of gays in Cuba was deplorable, and apparently is much
better now. Many countries have gone through stages like this. It's
apparently a Latin American machismo problem
really real
> We could do a prisoner swap with Cuba: five murderers for one "enemy
> of the state." Or since you're such a fan of lifetime incarceration
> and forced labor, we could make prisoners to build more prisons. As
> for me, I would decline the opportunity to serve Jesus or the State,
> and go Gary Gilmore.
Those prisons in America must be good for the economy because it sure is
a growth industry. Iran might be executing more children than the USA,
but is there a country that imprisons more of its citizens than the USA?
Just Walkin'
>
> Those prisons in America must be good for the economy because it sure is
> a growth industry. Iran might be executing more children than the USA,
> but is there a country that imprisons more of its citizens than the USA?
>
gemjack
So the times I've been homeless and broke would've justified me
killing someone? There's no argument that poverty creates desperation
and can lead someone to commit crimes. But I'm not talking stealing
bread.
-gj
gemjack
Indeed, and this is a disgrace. Particularly since we imprison
non-violent offenders and drug users as though they're a threat to
society. I expect it to get worse now that private prisons are
gaining even more popularity. The dark side of capitalism.
-gj
Just Walkin'
> On Sat, 9 Jan 2010 07:32:39 -0800 (PST), "Just Walkin'"
>
Where's the light side?
really real
>> Indeed, and this is a disgrace. Particularly since we imprison
>> non-violent offenders and drug users as though they're a threat to
>> society. I expect it to get worse now that private prisons are
>> gaining even more popularity. The dark side of capitalism.
>> -gj
>
> Where's the light side?
Sweden
tif
> On Sat, 9 Jan 2010 07:32:39 -0800 (PST), "Just Walkin'"
>
> >On Jan 9, 9:17 am, really real <reallyr...@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
> >> Those prisons in America must be good for the economy because it sure is
> >> a growth industry. Iran might be executing more children than the USA,
> >> but is there a country that imprisons more of its citizens than the USA?
>
> >Nowhere in the world.
>
gj, was this meant to be a pun?
>Particularly since we imprison
> non-violent offenders and drug users as though they're a threat to
> society.
You pinned that one down. A business it is, a very unenlightened
business.
>I expect it to get worse now that private prisons are
> gaining even more popularity. The dark side of capitalism.
> -gj
Very, very dark indeed.
It does not have to be that way, it could get lighter. In a fair and
enlightened society, where compassion and capitalism (or whatever
system is in place) go hand in hand ... Those Prisoners That Are Not
A Threat To Society Would Get Released from their prison cells,
entrepreneurs would apply for permits, knock down walls, open the
gates, make improvements to the building i.e. install a better light
system etc... i hope you get the just gist of it ... et voila ....
with a little imagination and a certain amount of good will, from that
rotten old spreading out could arise the new to house us, We, the
People.
Is this being too much of a dreamer? Are there better things to do?
Maybe... maybe no. Mahself I just know of the importance of following
one's own destiny. I also know that new dreams are clearly being
called for in 2010, and that to dream the world anew, no more no
less, one needs good dreamers and a certain amount of good will.
Better to dream the new and manifest a clear vision than to blindly go
charging against the old and the unjust... and while doing so, run the
risk of becoming one of 'em that gets imprisoned, new fodder for the
money machine. What good would you be then, heh?
Ho!
Sometimes one needs to transcend before coming down again.
Once a worthy dream is put in place, righteous action will find a way
to follow since "in dreams begin responsibility." It's team work and
without an animating dream for the team to start from, one remains
too blind to see. It's like having the filth of this society caked in
one's eyes and yet know it not, see it not. Because by fighting far
too long in an oppositional way, one becomes part of the problem and
derives one's identity from it.
Oh, but this part of the discussion belongs to the other thread,
doesn't it?
Or does it?
You tell me.
badlands420
>> In the past, you've defended Castro's public executions of political
>> dissidents (i.e. people who have never harmed anyone else) on the grounds
>> that they were "criminals."
>
> This is a total lie, of course.
I'll repost what you said a bit later and we'll let the newsgroup decide for
itself. Maybe between now and then you can come up with some more ways to
run from your own words like a coward.
badlands420
> Those prisons in America must be good for the economy because it sure is
> a growth industry. Iran might be executing more children than the USA, but
> is there a country that imprisons more of its citizens than the USA?
No, but this has far more to do with drug laws than anything else.
gemjack
wrote:
>On Jan 9, 8:22�am, gemjack <geminijackso...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 9 Jan 2010 07:32:39 -0800 (PST), "Just Walkin'"
>>
>> <kensh...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> >On Jan 9, 9:17�am, really real <reallyr...@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>
>> >> Those prisons in America must be good for the economy because it sure is
>> >> a growth industry. Iran might be executing more children than the USA,
>> >> but is there a country that imprisons more of its citizens than the USA?
>>
>> >Nowhere in the world.
>>
>.> Indeed, and this is a disgrace.
>
> gj, was this meant to be a pun?
Ha! No.
>
>�>Particularly since we imprison
>> non-violent offenders and drug users as though they're a threat to
>> society.
>
> You pinned that one down. A business it is, a very unenlightened
>business.
>
>�>I expect it to get worse now that private prisons are
>> gaining even more popularity. �The dark side of capitalism.
>> -gj
>
>Very, very dark indeed.
>
>It does not have to be that way, it could get lighter. In a fair and
>enlightened society, where compassion and capitalism (or whatever
>system is in place) go hand in hand ... Those Prisoners That Are Not
>A Threat To Society Would Get Released from their prison cells,
>entrepreneurs would apply for permits, knock down walls, open the
>gates, make improvements to the building i.e. install a better light
>system etc... i hope you get the just gist of it ... et voila ....
>with a little imagination and a certain amount of good will, from that
>rotten old spreading out could arise the new to house us, We, the
>People.
So, sort of a chain-gang, public service thing?
>
>Is this being too much of a dreamer? Are there better things to do?
>Maybe... maybe no. Mahself I just know of the importance of following
>one's own destiny. I also know that new dreams are clearly being
>called for in 2010, and that to dream the world anew, no more no
>less, one needs good dreamers and a certain amount of good will.
>Better to dream the new and manifest a clear vision than to blindly go
>charging against the old and the unjust... and while doing so, run the
>risk of becoming one of 'em that gets imprisoned, new fodder for the
>money machine. What good would you be then, heh?
I'm with ya...
>
>Ho!
>
>Sometimes one needs to transcend before coming down again.
>Once a worthy dream is put in place, righteous action will find a way
>to follow since "in dreams begin responsibility." It's team work and
>without an animating dream for the team to start from, one remains
>too blind to see. It's like having the filth of this society caked in
>one's eyes and yet know it not, see it not. Because by fighting far
>too long in an oppositional way, one becomes part of the problem and
>derives one's identity from it.
Ever notice it's the one's that raise their voice the loudest about
peace & equality get kiiled: Ghandi, MLK, Lennon... Rightious action
needs to happen in larger numbers for security.
>
>Oh, but this part of the discussion belongs to the other thread,
>doesn't it?
>
>Or does it?
>
>You tell me.
I'm just not sure.
-gj
Janice
> . . . One thing's for sure though- hard,
> violent crimes are being committed by younger people these days. Do
> we blame our culture, tv, or non-dylan related music???
Yes.
I'm currently reading Obama's biography Dreams from My Father (for the
first time). After attempting to help an isolated housing area in
Chicago (Altgeld) with issues like working toilets, a job database, &
asbestos removal, with a few small victories (but not enough to
notice), I am at the chapter where he decides that if it reform
doesn't start in the schools, in education, then it won't be able to
take hold and sustain anyplace else.
p. 256:
"The more I learned about the system, the more convinced I became that
school reform was the only possible solution for the plight of the
young men I saw on the street; that without stable families, with no
prospects for blue-collar work that could support a family of their
own, education was their last best hope."
He was talking about the state of affairs for inner city Chicago in
the 80's, specifically for young black men... but at this point I'd
say the problem has progressed to apply to all young men of any race
looking for some sort of meaningful and sustaining direction in this
country (and so many other countries) now.
The book is an easy, excellent read. He is as personable in print as
he is on camera.
~`~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jumbo
You mistake my point. Put it this way:
When was the last time anyone who paid for their own defence was
executed?
gemjack
Valid point. It is rare.
-gj
tif
> On Sat, 9 Jan 2010 10:17:46 -0800 (PST), tif <pasterna...@gmail.com>
I'm just not sure. What I wrote is only a little fragment of a
dream I dreamt, a few nights ago. You know how dreams are, ethereal
little spots of consciousness, a gift from the gods, better left
floating around. I would not want to betray the integral fullness of
it by attempting to interpret it prematurely.
>
>
>
> >Is this being too much of a dreamer? Are there better things to do?
> >Maybe... maybe no. Mahself I just know of the importance of following
> >one's own destiny. I also know that new dreams are clearly being
> >called for in 2010, and that to dream the world anew, no more no
> >less, one needs good dreamers and a certain amount of good will.
> >Better to dream the new and manifest a clear vision than to blindly go
> >charging against the old and the unjust... and while doing so, run the
> >risk of becoming one of 'em that gets imprisoned, new fodder for the
> >money machine. What good would you be then, heh?
>
> I'm with ya...
And I with YaH.... yeah, yeah, bim bam bom.
Always have been there. Before soul's descent into matter to
clothe self in it, and then since. And beyond the horizon, always.
Am I close enough?
>
>
> >Ho!
>
> >Sometimes one needs to transcend before coming down again.
> >Once a worthy dream is put in place, righteous action will find a way
> >to follow since "in dreams begin responsibility." It's team work and
> >without an animating dream for the team to start from, one remains
> >too blind to see. It's like having the filth of this society caked in
> >one's eyes and yet know it not, see it not. Because by fighting far
> >too long in an oppositional way, one becomes part of the problem and
> >derives one's identity from it.
>
> Ever notice it's the one's that raise their voice the loudest about
> peace & equality get kiiled: Ghandi, MLK, Lennon...
Heh, heh gj, don't you forget it was not only men who raised the
stakes and died for it. Witness Joan of Arc too!! It must not have
been fun to burn, burn, burn, Baby, but what a ride it must have been
for her when she held that flag in her hand and rode with the wind.
>Rightious action
> needs to happen in larger numbers for security.
Good point, a measure of safety has its place in a dangerous and
tricky war. Large numbers of people have been swallowed in the
nightmare and need to awaken from it and leap on that 'one better
dream" train, aligning their emotions and vibrations with it before
the tide changes in a visible way. The "few chosen" are and will be
the ones who choose themselves, who free themselves. Something to do
with believing in and awakening the divine spark within, however one
wishes to call that process, (terminology is far less important than
the vibratory level) After awakening it, or should I say allowing it
to awaken, not getting in the way, it can become a life affirming
bonfire.
Even in January, there are still chestnuts that can be roasted in the
fire, ya know. I have heard it said that Christmas is not truly over
until the fat lady sings.
>
>
>
> >Oh, but this part of the discussion belongs to the other thread,
> >doesn't it?
>
> >Or does it?
>
> >You tell me.
>
> I'm just not sure.
At times not being sure is good, from that the next step of truth
can arise. Uncertainty can be the guiding light that precedes it so
let it be, just let it be for now.
Be cool, be hot, be you, be ya, be with i, be i & i & yah, yah, yah.
> -gj
gemjack
wrote:
> Heh, heh gj, don't you forget it was not only men who raised the
>stakes and died for it. Witness Joan of Arc too!! It must not have
>been fun to burn, burn, burn, Baby, but what a ride it must have been
>for her when she held that flag in her hand and rode with the wind.
And more recently Benazir Bhutto.
-gj
M. Rick
collar guillotine. We can prime the machine with a few paparazzi.
Rockinghorse Winner
>It would be nice if we could boycott every country that executes people
>who obviously shouldn't have been executed, but even if such boycotts
>were possible, we really can't afford to lose the economic disadvantages
>of not having their cheap labour to make our stuff.
>As a Canadian, I certainly don't like the way the country to the south
>of me executes children, but economically and culturally, a boycott
>would be totally out of the question.
Sure it would.
So how are things up in the 51st state? Haven't been there in ages. Do they
still speak French? Crazy Canadians....
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badlands420
> So how are things up in the 51st state? Haven't been there in ages. Do
> they
> still speak French? Crazy Canadians....
Best thing I ever saw in Canada:
A kids' ride at Walmart with a big sign that said "LOONIES ONLY."
tif
That's good to know. Tomorrow I'll jump in a Greyhound bus and head
north. My present neighborhood is too mighty serious.
badlands420
>> A kids' ride at Walmart with a big sign that said "LOONIES ONLY."
>That's good to know. Tomorrow I'll jump in a Greyhound bus and head
>north. My present neighborhood is too mighty serious.
In case you didn't know, a Loonie is a Canadian dollar coin.
really real
> So how are things up in the 51st state? Haven't been there in ages. Do they
> still speak French? Crazy Canadians....
Things are not going well in Canada. We have a right wing prime minister
and now Canada is the pariah of the environmental movement. Also, our
troops have become cannon fodder in Kandahar, and our government
prorogued Parliament rather than face up to the charges that we've been
turning over captives to the Afghanistan military so they could be
tortured (the government attacked the whistle blower when this news came
out.)
But yes, the 30% of Canada that is French still speaks their own language.
Meanwhile, the warm heavy rain is falling in Vancouver, washing the snow
off the mountains, and threatening the success of our winter Olympics
next month.
Mr Jinx
On the plus side you still have the Mounties. Or are they part of the
cut-backs and general entropy too?
Mr Jinx
really real
>
> On the plus side you still have the Mounties. Or are they part of the
> cut-backs and general entropy too?
It turns out the Mounties have been tasering people to death and then
lying about it. Our wonderful mounted police are in disgrace.
Mr Jinx
Here in England the queen kills swans and (laughing like a drain) eats
them whole. Whereas if we so much as wound a swan our gallant MET
force come, break our kneecaps and force us to drink warm beer with
Cockney Madonna.
Hope this helps.
Mr Jinx
gemjack
wrote:
Cold weather does that to a man. I'm about to snap myself.
-gj
Rockinghorse Winner
>On Jan 12, 3:19=A0pm, really real <reallyr...@shaw.ca> wrote:
>> > So how are things up in the 51st state? Haven't been there in ages. Do =
>they
>> > still speak French? Crazy Canadians....
>>
>> Things are not going well in Canada. We have a right wing prime minister
>> and now Canada is the pariah of the environmental movement. Also, our
>> troops have become cannon fodder in Kandahar, and our government
>> prorogued Parliament rather than face up to the charges that we've been
>> turning over captives to the Afghanistan military so they could be
>> tortured (the government attacked the whistle blower when this news came
>> out.)
>>
>> But yes, the 30% of Canada that is French still speaks their own language=
>.
>>
>> Meanwhile, the warm heavy rain is falling in Vancouver, washing the snow
>> off the mountains, and threatening the success of our winter Olympics
>> next month.
>On the plus side you still have the Mounties. Or are they part of the
>cut-backs and general entropy too?
>Mr Jinx
Whenever I hear 'mountie' my mind flashes back to my youth and Dudley Do
Right.
http://picpaste.com/dudley_do_right.jpg
LOL!
frinjdwelr
"really real" <reall...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:lq03n.8909$V_3....@newsfe09.iad...
I spent time with some Canadian friends over the holidays and they were
lamenting about some of these same issues. They said they've always
considered Canada a much superior country to the U.S. but now it's catching
down fast.
gemjack
<frinj...@charter.net> wrote:
>I spent time with some Canadian friends over the holidays and they were
>lamenting about some of these same issues. They said they've always
>considered Canada a much superior country to the U.S. but now it's catching
>down fast.
Yep, they sound Canadian. Was one of their last name 'Real'?
-gj
badlands420
> I spent time with some Canadian friends over the holidays and they were
> lamenting about some of these same issues. They said they've always
> considered Canada a much superior country to the U.S. but now it's
> catching down fast.
Maybe it's because of all the Hollywood types who threatened to move there
if Bush got re-elected in '04. If they actually followed through on that, I
can see how Canada would go to hell really fast.
Just Walkin'
>
> Whenever I hear 'mountie' my mind flashes back to my youth and Dudley Do
> Right.
>
> http://picpaste.com/dudley_do_right.jpg
>
> LOL!
Youngster...
Sgt. Preston of the Yukon.