Empire Burlesque - some notes
David Wright
This album is not as bad as people think. There are three groups of songs,
and a afterthought (Dark Eyes), the latter which should be on another album.
The first group is really soulful and good:
1 - Tight Connection, Something's Burning
The music and melodies are are actually very nice. A mellow version on
Biograph of Tight Connection is great, but still the record version I like.
But, and here's the issue with the album - the synths. Take out the synth and
the electric guitar, and the driving electric drum, and you have some real
quality.
The same is true for the Nightmarish 'Night Comes Falling from the sky'. The
song itself is similiar in chords and structure to All Along the Watchtower,
'Hurricane', and many others that start with the relative minor and go the
subdominant. It's a great rock sound, used by Neil Young and others. Once
again, the problem is that synths and electric guitar get out of hand. Worst
still is the loud drum beat. The Biograph version lacks the horrible synths
and electric leads, but it's chord structure is way too major and pretty for
me. The rythem change is almost silly. But, many people prefer this version.
The second group are less well written songs, but with nice rock music. With
a different producer, could have sounded as good as something on Slow Train
or Shot of Love:
Seeing the Real you at Last
Clean-Cut Kid
Trust Yourself
These songs are poorly written in the sense they are a bit clumsy and lack
depth, spirit and climax. However, they do have a nice message, and the music
is kind of nice rock sound, it is possible to see them with a Mick Taylor on
Shot of Love even. And, no synths.
The third group is the romantic trash songs. They lack irony, depth,
originality, but are sort of nice in a Hallmark kind of way - or perhaps you
might argue so:
I'll Remember You
Never Gonna Be the Same Again
Emotionally Yours
I'll remeber you has the kind of soul as the first group - with the offkey
background singing that maks it sound more authentic but the others can't
really recover from thier simplicity and lack of realism.
In hindsight, Emotionally Yours became a hit with ? Nevile.
Emotionaly yours has the same descending bass lines as Is Your Love in Vain
or Elvis' 'Falling in Love with You' (that Dylan covered).
The reason why people dislike this album is because they confuse what is
wrong on some songs and wrong on others, and it becomes a dim blur of
obnoxiousness. I think this is unfair.
Bob Hughes
wrote:
Find the bootleg version without the synths and 80's compression. It
sounds like a half decent r&b album.
Bob Hughes
"I am perpetually awaiting a rebirth of wonder." Lawrence Ferlinghetti
chuck
> In hindsight, Emotionally Yours became a hit with ? Nevile.
>
You're probably thinking of Aaron Neville — however,
it wasn't him but the O'Jays, back in '91. They sang
it the following year at Bob's 30th anniversary
tribute concert.
I do hear a few "Nevillisms" here & there in the O'Jays
version, though.
—CK
badlands420
> This album is not as bad as people think.
Empire Burlesque makes Self Portrait sound like Blonde on Blonde.
The Hysterical Bride
> > This album is not as bad as people think.
>
> Empire Burlesque makes Self Portrait sound like Blonde on Blonde.
That's because it wasn't written for you.
The Hysterical Bride
> On Jul 10, 6:47 pm, David_wri...@spra.com (David Wright) wrote:
>
> > This album is not as bad as people think. There are three groups of songs,
> > and a afterthought (Dark Eyes), the latter which should be on another album.
>
> better, though.
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yeah, When the Night Comes Falling on Bootleg was *just* awful. He
definitely needed help with that. Boy, that song *really* fucking
sucks.
The Hysterical Bride
> > Yeah, When the Night Comes Falling on Bootleg was *just* awful. He
> > definitely needed help with that. Boy, that song *really* fucking
> > sucks.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Oh c'mon. I thought it was so obvious that I was being facetious. I
mean, I contemplated adding a wink emoticon, but then I thought, no,
it's so ridiculously obvious, it would be INSULTING to the songs to
think that I need to qualify my sarcastic answer.
I LOVE Empire Burlesque.
And some of the other versions of the songs I know, like I'll Remember
You from Hard to Handle, or When the Night Comes Falling from Bootleg,
and Hard to Handle, to a lesser degree, just BLOW ME AWAY!!!!!!! (And
they are just beautiful on Empire Burlesque itself.)
DON'T LISTEN TO THE NAYSAYERS, MR. DYLAN! YOUR WORK IS PERFECT!
Martin
> Night Comes Falling is alright to my ears...not as great as I've heard
> people tell. But I like this stanza. I figure he's referring to
> child support. Notice that he doesn't specify what the "feelings"
> were in his letter. For all we know they could easily NOT have been
> the expressions of a gentleman:
>
> Well, I sent you my feelings in a letter
> But you were gambling for support.
> This time tomorrow I'll know you better
> When my memory is not so short
Actually, the whole record has plenty of great lines. I think it just
got dragged in a direction that has turned out to be a bad one. I
remember it sounded pretty good on a cassette in about 1986. I think
if it had been recorded with a totally different sound - maybe
something like Knocked Out Loaded - and had some song changes and
rearrangements, it could have been a great album
Will Dockery
Love the version on Masked And Anonymous.
Will Dockery
> > > I'll Remember You
>
> > Love the version on Masked And Anonymous.
>
> is made to be about father. About how the whole movie is about that.
I find myself watching it fairly often, and still finding new bits on
changing persepctive and mood at the moment, like the best of Dylan
always does for me. And yes, the film is sort of an alternate dream
sequence autobiography... in the MAA ''universe'', the father is the
president rather than the funiture store owner, but Fate's rebellion
against the future his parents had laid out for him worked in much the
same way...
> > > Never Gonna Be the Same Again
> > > Emotionally Yours
>
> > > I'll remeber you has the kind of soul as the first group - with the offkey
> > > background singing that maks it sound more authentic but the others can't
> > > really recover from thier simplicity and lack of realism.
>
> > > In hindsight, Emotionally Yours became a hit with ? Nevile.
>
> > > Emotionaly yours has the same descending bass lines as Is Your Love in Vain
> > > or Elvis' 'Falling in Love with You' (that Dylan covered).
>
> > > The reason why people dislike this album is because they confuse what is
> > > wrong on some songs and wrong on others, and it becomes a dim blur of
> > > obnoxiousness. I think this is unfair.
I'm a bit clouded by nostalgia for 1985 in general, but there's a soft
spot in my heart for EB... not his best, of course, but there's some
very satifying moments on it for me, personally.
--
''God's Toybox'' by Dockery-Beck
http://www.myspace.com/shadowvilleallstars
badlands420
>I find myself watching it fairly often, and still finding new bits on
>changing persepctive and mood at the moment, like the best of Dylan
>always does for me.
For me, M&A has a quality that a lot of Dylan's songs also do. At first I'm
pretty sure I dislike it, then it starts sloiwly winning me over until I get
the joke and see how brilliant it really is.
It makes sense that so many of the reviews on that flick were so intensely
negative. It's not something you can come close to fully appreciating on the
first viewing, or the second or the third. It takes some work, but it's
worth it.
Bob Hughes
<trea...@aol.com> wrote:
>On Jul 20, 12:03 pm, "badlands420" <b...@hole.com> wrote:
>> >I find myself watching it fairly often, and still finding new bits on
>> >changing persepctive and mood at the moment, like the best of Dylan
>> >always does for me.
>>
>> For me, M&A has a quality that a lot of Dylan's songs also do. At first I'm
>> pretty sure I dislike it, then it starts sloiwly winning me over until I get
>> the joke and see how brilliant it really is.
>.....
>> It makes sense that so many of the reviews on that flick were so intensely
>> negative. It's not something you can come close to fully appreciating on the
>> first viewing, or the second or the third. It takes some work, but it's
>> worth it.
>
>I'm going with the reviews on this one. I found it unbearable, a real
>triumph of amateurism. I'm glad you like it but I honestly don't
>understand how anyone could sit through it more than once.
It's a brilliant Dylan movie. Nothing to do with what "Cinemaphiles"
are expecting. You have to set aside "the rules" and look at it for
what it is (and not for what it's not).
Have you ever noticed that rock and roll people keep trying to make
the same kinds of movies all the time? And that movie people can
never figure out what they're trying to do? What's up with that?.
badlands420
> It's a brilliant Dylan movie. Nothing to do with what "Cinemaphiles"
> are expecting. You have to set aside "the rules" and look at it for
> what it is (and not for what it's not).
It's also a lot cooler if you're stoned.
The Hysterical Bride
I love my sobriety.
(And believe me, I been there. You know where. I've almost done every
single recreational drug known to man, lol.)
J Buck
songs also do. At first I'm pretty sure I dislike it, then it starts
sloiwly winning me over until I get the joke and see how brilliant it
really is.
It makes sense that so many of the reviews on that flick were so
intensely negative. It's not something you can come close to fully
appreciating on the first viewing, or the second or the third. It takes
some work, but it's worth it.>
I liked it the first time I saw it, and every time I watch it I catch
something I never saw before. Unfortunately, that hasn't happened with
the last 2 albums.
Bob Hughes
<trea...@aol.com> wrote:
>On Jul 21, 10:22 pm, "badlands420" <b...@hole.com> wrote:
>> > It's a brilliant Dylan movie. Nothing to do with what "Cinemaphiles"
>> > are expecting. You have to set aside "the rules" and look at it for
>> > what it is (and not for what it's not).
>....
>> It's also a lot cooler if you're stoned.
>(With a sigh) Sadly, I think that's about the best you can say for
>it.
It's got an awesome soundtrack album?
badlands420
>> It's also a lot cooler if you're stoned.
> it.
Why is that sad?
Martin
> I liked it the first time I saw it, and every time I watch it I catch
> something I never saw before. Unfortunately, that hasn't happened with
> the last 2 albums
You prefer Masked & Anonymous to Love & Theft and Modern Times? Gosh
badlands420
> Why is it sad that something doesn't stand on it's own? Why is it sad
> that the movie can only be considered good when you're stoned?
I said it's better when you're stoned, but I didn't say it's worthless if
you're not. No need to jump to conclusions.
Bob Hughes
<whydoIst...@usenet.com> wrote:
>I figure Bunghole's list of "Activities not improved by being stoned" is
>pretty short.
Believe it or not, there are some records which sound even worse when
you're stoned. Chicago, for example.
J Buck
Times? Gosh>
Yep. I'd rather read Chronicles Vol. 1, too. Heck, I like the soundtrack
to 'Pat Garrett and Billy The Kid' more than the 2 aforementioned
albums. TOOM was the last Dylan album I enjoyed and still listen to on
occasion.
Martin
> Martin wrote: <You prefer Masked & Anonymous to Love & Theft and Modern
>
> Times? Gosh>
>
> Yep. I'd rather read Chronicles Vol. 1, too. Heck, I like the soundtrack
> to 'Pat Garrett and Billy The Kid' more than the 2 aforementioned
> albums
I love Pat Garrett (the album, not the man), but I wouldn't rate it
above L&T. I'm not sure about Modern Times though. But it was the
desire to watch or listen to M&A that I find strange. There were bits
of the film that were interesting, and that could have fitted well
into a Cohen Brothers type movie, but the music leaves a lot to be
desired. Bob's own performances are very average in my opinion, and
some of the cover versions are just terrible. For that reason, the
soundtrack album is even less value to me
Martin
> I said it's better when you're stoned, but I didn't say it's worthless if
> you're not
Maybe I should try that, although I haven't been stoned since about
2002. Having said that, I think Bob's earlier albums in particular
are very suited to listening while stoned. Sheryl Crow said that a
Dylan album is like being stoned, didn't she? I think that might be
true
badlands420
> I figure Bunghole's list of "Activities not improved by being stoned" is
> pretty short.
Actually, there's only one entry.
1. Reading poisoned rose's newsgroup posts
badlands420
> Are you a druggie?
Are you Nancy Reagan?
Gemini Jackson
They are, she did, it is.
~GJ~
Gemini Jackson
<trea...@aol.com> wrote:
>On Jul 23, 10:12 am, "badlands420" <b...@hole.com> wrote:
>....
>> > Are you a druggie?
>>
>> Are you Nancy Reagan?
>
>Is that a druggie line?
As in 'hey man, you don't know where to get some Nancy Reagans do
you?' What would that be? Old white powder?
~GJ~
Martin
> Is that a druggie line?
This reminds me of a dream I had a few times. It's a recurring dream
that features me seeing a Bob Dylan concert, except that something
strange always happens, and I end up very disappointed. It usually
takes place in a very small concert hall with very few people in the
audience (in one it was on top of a roof, another was in a room about
the size of the Hen and Chickens theatre in Highbury Corner, in
another it was like the student union bar at Winchester), and although
sometimes it is ac Ãtually Bob Dylan performing, he usually turns
into a ridiculous impersonator after awhile. In one, it was really
Bob Dylan, but there were a group of special guests on stage with him,
and he let them sing all the songs. It then turned into a t.v screen
showing videos of Bob Dylan. In one, he was singing, but the mikes
weren’t switched on, so you couldn’t hear anything. In most of them,
it’s usually someone that looks and sounds nothing like Bob Dylan, but
for some reason, it takes me about half of the concert to realise that
it isn’t him. I then wait until the end, just to confirm my
suspicions, then complain to the management. By this point just about
everyone has left, and the place seems very empty. The dream then
ends with me observing things about the room I’m in (the stairs, the
carpet, the chairs), and watching the staff locking up and getting
ready to go home. Maybe it's those cheese fondus I eat before bedtime
The Hysterical Bride
Thanks for sharing your Bob Dylan dreams. Cool. I'm sorry it wasn't
really Bob Dylan. I don't like my dreams where it's Bob Dylan, but it
doesn't look like Bob Dylan. lol. (creepy!)
Gemini Jackson
<martin...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>On Jul 23, 6:52 pm, Treadleson <treadl...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> Is that a druggie line?
>
>This reminds me of a dream I had a few times.
One word: A bottle of red wine.
~GJ~
Martin
> One word: A bottle of red wine
Three glasses of Wild Turkey. Big Ones. Then - I'm anybody's
Martin
> Thanks for sharing your Bob Dylan dreams. Cool. I'm sorry it wasn't
> really Bob Dylan
That's okay, it's not really your fault - or is it? I always make a
note of my dreams, if they're interesting. Like the one whereI dreamt
I saw a dove get shot, and fall to the ground. I parted it’s feathers
and found the spot where the wound was, and eased out the bullet which
was a blue jewel. I let the jewel drop to the ground and checked the
dove’s pulse, which was still there. I punched it’s chest several
times, and it breathlessly regained consciousness, flapped it’s wings
and flew away. That one didn't have Bob Dylan in it though
badlands420
> Maybe you could give the newsgroup a break and only post at the very
> beginning of your day...in those precious few minutes before your
> greet-the-morning bong hits kick in.
Bongs are for teenagers, silly.
badlands420
> Is that a druggie line?
Umm......okay.
The Hysterical Bride
What do you use?
Hypodermic needles?
J Buck
anybody's>
Evan Williams normally. Woodford Reserve when I'm flush.
The Hysterical Bride
Wow. What an interesting dream! :)
Did you analyze it? lol.
Martin
> Wow. What an interesting dream! :)
>
> Did you analyze it?
No, I just added it to the record. I got the idea from Jack
Kerouac. I had a dream once that I saw a spot on my leg and started
to pick at it, and that the skin started coming away, and a little
white plastic object was underneath. I kept scratching and the skin
was coming away in larger lumps, revealing the object to be bigger.
Eventually, I had taken away a huge chunk of my thigh, and found,
buried in my leg, a red and white plastic object which was very
similar to the space rocket in the Tintin book Explorers On The Moon.
I was then on an operating table, and a surgeon began cutting with a
tiny scalpel at other areas of my legs, and by the time he had
finished, my legs were full of holes, and I looked over to a tray that
he had next to him that had about 9 or 10 of the plastic rocket
objects on it, covered with bits of my flesh. I had another dream,
not too long afterwards, where I was sitting on my bed in Hyde Barn in
Winchester, and saw a little white lump on my arm. I looked further
up, and discovered more lumps all the way up to my shoulders, except
they were bigger the further they went up. I then moved to a mirror
and saw that there were enormous white lumps growing out of my
shoulders and back like massive butter beans. The dream ended with me
then looking down and seeing large clamps around my arms, from my
elbows to my wrists, that were rusted and had been attached so tightly
that they were digging into my skin and drawing blood. Now you can
see why I always happily bounce out of bed in the morning..!
The Hysterical Bride
I nominate Martin for the Kook of the Month Award.
Martin
> I nominate Martin for the Kook of the Month Award
I'm gonna fight this
badlands420
> Sounds like a perfect fit for you.
That's what she said.