Overrated and pretentious bands
BarryGo...@ausi.com
1. Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers: formulaic songs, recycled generic
licks, garage-band chops. Petty's persona is like something an ad
agency would paste together after a few focus groups.
2. (sure to be controversial) U2! Bono has a distinctive and
expressive voice, but after years of songs that all sound alike, it is
like listening to a rock version of Barry Manilow. He doesn't wear
celebrity well; it's like watching a rock version of Hugh Hefner. His
band mates play the same licks on every song.
Martin
> This ought to be a jolly discussion
It's not fashionable to like Tom Petty - as far as I know - but it
sounds like you have a personal dislike, which might prevent you
liking the classic pop/rock songs he's produced. I'm not saying the
music is original, but they're superb musicians and Petty's written
songs great songs. I don't think they're any more pretentious than
your average rock band. I don't even think they're overrated -
certainly not in England anyway - as they've had a pretty low profile
compared to other US rock bands. U2 on the other hand are surely the
definition of an overrated and pretentious band, and therefore need to
be number 1 in your list
Raja
I will add to the list
Beach Boys (apart from a dozen singles, they are average. None of
their albums are excellent)
Doors (except the debut album none of the rest are upto par)
Jimi Hendrix Experience (the first album was good, the next two kinda
sucked)
Grateful Dead (Dead boring)
Cream (pretentious knobs. Disraeli Gears is the only good album.
Wheels of Fire has too much of pointless wankery)
Allman Brothers Band (the kings of pointless wankery)
Creedence Clearwater Revival (gets old after a while)
Velvet Underground (the debut was excellent but the other three pretty
much sucked)
Queen (except The Night of the Opera no albums of theirs can be called
a classic)
U2 (the worst of the lot here. completely one dimensional)
Clash (only their debut is good. London Calling is long and boring)
Van Halen (stupid, dumnb and low quality material except for a few
songs)
Eagles (formulaic much like U2)
REM (the dullest band ever)
Radiohead (I was wrong, this the dullest band ever)
Pearl Jam/Nirvana/Soundgarden/Alice in Chains (these are not all time
great bands, no matter how much you try to convince me)
Talking Heads (weird and hardly have memorable songs)
Chicago (except for the debut, pretty lame)
Martin
> Beach Boys (apart from a dozen singles, they are average. None of
> their albums are excellent)
Ever heard Pet Sounds?
really real
>
> 1. Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers: formulaic songs, recycled generic
> licks, garage-band chops. Petty's persona is like something an ad
> agency would paste together after a few focus groups.
Funny you should mention Tom Petty. His songs always sound great when
they come up in shuffle mode. He's got that old time sound - a strong
upfront voice leading a band making good old rock music. And Tom has got
what I'd call a distinctive voice. Bono's voice always sounded like
wallpaper to me
JohnB
> On May 8, 2:49 am, BarryGoldwa...@ausi.com wrote:
>
> > This ought to be a jolly discussion. Here are my two initial nominees:
>
> > 1. Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers: formulaic songs, recycled generic
> > licks, garage-band chops. Petty's persona is like something an ad
> > agency would paste together after a few focus groups.
>
> > 2. (sure to be controversial) U2! Bono has a distinctive and
> > expressive voice, but after years of songs that all sound alike, it is
> > like listening to a rock version of Barry Manilow. He doesn't wear
> > celebrity well; it's like watching a rock version of Hugh Hefner. His
> > band mates play the same licks on every song.
>
> I will add to the list
Oh, dear ...
> Beach Boys (apart from a dozen singles, they are average. None of
> their albums are excellent)
But why does this make them pretentious or over-rated? I think they
are rightly highly rated as a singles-based pop band who made two or
three interesting albums too.
> Doors (except the debut album none of the rest are upto par)
> Jimi Hendrix Experience (the first album was good, the next two kinda
> sucked)
> Grateful Dead (Dead boring)
The Dead are boring to many but pretentious?
> Cream (pretentious knobs. Disraeli Gears is the only good album.
> Wheels of Fire has too much of pointless wankery)
> Allman Brothers Band (the kings of pointless wankery)
> Creedence Clearwater Revival (gets old after a while)
You may not like CCR but being "old" (whatever you mean by that - we
all get old if we're lucky) isn't enough to make them overrated or
pretentious.
> Velvet Underground (the debut was excellent but the other three pretty
> much sucked)
> Queen (except The Night of the Opera no albums of theirs can be called
> a classic)
But having classic albums (or not) has nothing to do with
pretentiousness or being overrated.
> U2 (the worst of the lot here. completely one dimensional)
But even if they are, does that make them overrated or pretentious?
> Clash (only their debut is good. London Calling is long and boring)
> Van Halen (stupid, dumnb and low quality material except for a few
> songs)
> Eagles (formulaic much like U2)
But even if they are, does that make them overrated or pretentious?
> REM (the dullest band ever)
> Radiohead (I was wrong, this the dullest band ever)
You need to hear some seriously dull bands. There are many out there
that are far worse than these. But even if they are, does that make
them overrated or pretentious?
> Pearl Jam/Nirvana/Soundgarden/Alice in Chains (these are not all time
> great bands, no matter how much you try to convince me)
But even if they are, does that make them overrated or pretentious?
> Talking Heads (weird and hardly have memorable songs)
I can remember plenty of Talking Heads songs. But even if you were
right, does that make them overrated or pretentious?
> Chicago (except for the debut, pretty lame)
But even if you are right, does that make them overrated or
pretentious?
"Overrated" means that a sizeable number of critics must have rated
them unjustifiably high - and this all comes down to opinion anyway.
"Pretentious" means having pretentions to being of more importance or
artistic significance than is actually merited. You have to claim to
be something before you can be pretentious.
You are pretentious because you claim to be knowledgable about rock
music but your knowledge is in fact quite limited.
firefly
seas---of wasted recording tape that made billions of dollars anyway.
---firefly
<BarryGo...@ausi.com> wrote in message
news:6490352a-451e-431a...@z16g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
crazytimes
Tom Petty's radio hits from the late 70s early 80s weren't bad to
hear, and they have their place on the hit parade of those times...
Kind of Jackson Browne with a early Byrds format with just a hint of
New Wave...
U2 was alright until about 1986, when they joined the Amnesty Tour and
Bono's head exploded...
Both of those bands have their little era of meaningfulness... But if
you delve further and try to take all their work in, if you should
look out your bedroom window and see a Tom Petty Billboard, or see
Bono in your rearview mirror every day, then, yes, you are surely
bound to be offended by these two musical entities at some point...
Babs
If I could save only one band from your electric chair, it would be
The Velvet Underground. Not overrated or pretentious in my eyes.
Innovative, quirky and visceral.
Robin
> On May 8, 3:49 am, BarryGoldwa...@ausi.com wrote:
>
> > This ought to be a jolly discussion. Here are my two initial nominees:
>
> > 1. Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers:
Being a Byrds fan from way back, I think Petty took their music (to
some extent) where the remaining members of The Byrds could not. So, I
definitely don't see TP +THB as pretentious in any way. Just good old
R&R. On the other hand, I can never quite make up my mind whether Bozo
or Bob Geldof is the most irritating (and pretentious) person on the
planet.
My 2 cents.
RS
Me
Fuck off Raja you overrated and pretentious mutant.
Robin
> On May 8, 8:57 am, Raja <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Fuck off Raja you overrated and pretentious mutant.
That's a really adult contribution to the subject under discussion.
But, I see you have nearly mastered 9- & 11-letter words. Gold star
for you!
RS
Jumbo
> I can never quite make up my mind whether Bozo
> or Bob Geldof is the most irritating (and pretentious) person on the
> planet.
Surely you're forgetting about Sting and Peter Gabriel?
Robin
Jumbo - I did forget Sting, but you have uncovered my darkest fetish.
I like Gabriel's music. Oh, woe is me.
Bob
Petty's done some really good stuff. Really good. UP I don't know anything
about.
Jumbo
1. Pink Floyd.
2. REM.
3. The Doors.
4. Led Zeppelin.
5. The Smiths.
Like Babs, I'd like to protest about the Velvet Underground
nomination, and the Grateful Dead. They were often self-indulgent but
not in the scheme of things over-rated.
U2 - over-rated certainly. Pretentious: sometimes (eg Zooropa period
especially).
P.S. I do like some Led Zeppelin, but they *are* over-rated and
pretentious.
Jumbo
I like the poppy one with all the hits on it. The rest is too deep for
me.
really real
>> Fuck off Raja you overrated and pretentious mutant.
>
> That's a really adult contribution to the subject under discussion.
> But, I see you have nearly mastered 9- & 11-letter words. Gold star
> for you!
You have to understand that this post was crossposted to the Beatles
group where Raja's lists have become a serious phenomenon. Telling Raja
to fuck off is merely a mantra in the neverending conversations about
Raja's lists. It's similar to "Sock it To Me" or "Right On" in that it
doesn't have any literal meaning - it's just a way of getting into the
riffs.
Martin
In that case, Fuck off RR you overrated and pretentious mutant
(***joke***)
PrivateCitizen_dudley
Dear rr,
Thanks. I was about to point out the crossPosting (also to some 70s
site).
That said, I've seen Petty 3 times, twice w/ dylan, and once third row
center at a dinky little place. I was with a woman who had years ago
been accepted to Juilliard, but did not attend.
She began to shake her head side to side, as she had done for the
opening act (Replacements?). I asked her why.
Apparently she was nodding side to side for the openers because she
cdn't believe the guitar player hadn't nodded off. As to Petty, she
cdn't believe how pitchPerfect he was.
Derivative? yes. In a traditional Continuum? moreso.
A video is worth 10,000 words:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PbgfvtGuVE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=800KU4VtJws
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ur4buwv0rRc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-AwdqbRa_o
Back a long long time ago when our older daughter almost died on us,
we bailed her out of hospital for Xmas, and i gave her this album:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZER3LBSN-k
I still feel her kiss on top my forehead.
That furthur said, i remember a few years back talking to a young
fellow, and then reading in print the same comment: "The Beatles? A
boyBand".
That said finally, can we gear this thread up a notch to include "80s"
bands? Let's start, oh, with Flock of Seagulls & the one w/ Mick
Hucknall.
or Wham!
(there's 80s stuff i dig, even cherish)
Zoom!
dudley
Robin
RR - Yes, I did eventually catch on to that. Strange that the "sock it
to me" post reminded me of the lyrics from an allegedly pretentious
band (5 to 1 byThe Doors) "they got the guns, but we got the numbers.
We're takin' over". Of course, I am now on the wrong side of that
equation since I first heard it.
RS
Dave B
Tom Petty's Mudcrutch album is very enjoyable, but the Heartbreakers ones
have been very patchy ever since Damn the Torpedos.
The Doors ahve to win hands down for both most pretentious and most over
rated. No-one else comes close.
Dave
really real
>
> The Doors have to win hands down for both most pretentious and most over
> rated. No-one else comes close.
The Doors first album is one of the great treasures of our modern age.
So what if they went downhill from there.
Jumbo
>
>
> That said finally, can we gear this thread up a notch to include "80s"
> bands? Let's start, oh, with Flock of Seagulls & the one w/ Mick
> Hucknall.
>
> or Wham!
Wait, are you saying Wham were pretentious?
Martin
> Wait, are you saying Wham were pretentious?
The first Wham! album is one of the treasures of our modern age
really real
>
> The first Wham! album is one of the treasures of our modern age
A treasure, true, in some people's eye and ears. But it was not one of
the great treasures, like the Door's first album.
Martin
Is 'The Doors' more perfect than Highway 61 Revisited?
Martin
> "Overrated" and "pretentious" are two such disparate traits that I
> wonder why you lumped them together.
>
> This is one of those threads which just gives bloated old windbags a
> chance to bitterly grumble about the world ignoring their tastes and
> favoring bands which somehow "upset" them
What do you think of Dolorean's You Can't Win?
rockfish
> If I could save only one band from your electric chair, it would be
> The Velvet Underground. Not overrated or pretentious in my eyes.
> Innovative, quirky and visceral.
I love the Velvet Underground...great records and a few of their songs
are simply indispensible. Innovative, quirky and visceral, yes. But
they are both pretentious and overrated. Its possible that anytime
white kids head uptown to buy drugs and write songs about it, the
results are going to be a little pretentious. Yes, yes, i know that
oversimplifies the Velvets. And when you've been put at the center of
the modern rock universe by many critics, you're bound to be
overrated. Thats not condemning them to the chair, just giving them a
slap on the wrist.
amy
> On May 8, 2:49 am, BarryGoldwa...@ausi.com wrote:
>
>
> > 1. Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers: formulaic songs, recycled generic
> > licks, garage-band chops. Petty's persona is like something an ad
> > agency would paste together after a few focus groups.
>
> > 2. (sure to be controversial) U2! Bono has a distinctive and
> > expressive voice, but after years of songs that all sound alike, it is
> > like listening to a rock version of Barry Manilow. He doesn't wear
> > celebrity well; it's like watching a rock version of Hugh Hefner. His
> > band mates play the same licks on every song.
>
Not only do you know nothing about music but nobody cares.
really real
>
> Is 'The Doors' more perfect than Highway 61 Revisited?
Of course not. Highway 61 Revisited is almost perfect, within its
context of coming after Bringing It All Back Home and Blonde on Blonde.
However, the Doors first album came out of nowhere. That's why it is
such a treasure, not as great a treasure as the three Dylan albums, but
a treasure nonetheless.
Jumbo
> "Overrated" and "pretentious" are two such disparate traits that I
> wonder why you lumped them together.
>
> This is one of those threads which just gives bloated old windbags a
> chance to bitterly grumble about the world ignoring their tastes and
Actually, pr, try thinking of it this way: it's a thread where people
list bands they think are over-rated and pretentious. And where
supercilious types claim to be the only ones with adequate knowledge
to do it without bitterness.
Gemini Jackson
wrote:
Do not feed Raja (the OP). We don't want him here. His lists never
end. Trust me on this!
-GJ
~GJ~
J Buck
over rated. No-one else comes close.>
of our modern age. So what if they went downhill from there.>
Perhaps, but they climbed the hill again with 'LA Woman'.
BlackMonk
"really real" <reall...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:OhHUj.252023$pM4.12523@pd7urf1no...
>
>>
>> The Doors have to win hands down for both most pretentious and most over
>> rated. No-one else comes close.
>
>
> The Doors first album is one of the great treasures of our modern age.
It's a good album. If they'd done nothing else during the sixties, I'd
probably rate it along with Electric Comic Book, The Electric Prunes Travel
Up To The Underground, and the first Seeds album.
However, none of those are really in the same league as Village Green
Preservation Society, Forever Changes, or Trout Mask Replica, which is the
league I think about when we're discussing great treasures of our modern
age.
Lookingglass
"BlackMonk" <Blac...@email.msn.com> wrote
>
> However, none of those are really in the same league as Village Green
> Preservation Society, Forever Changes, or Trout Mask Replica, which is the
> league I think about when we're discussing great treasures of our modern
> age.
Every time you mention The Kinks' VILLAGE GREEN PRESERVATION SOCIETY, I get
the urge to run to my stacks and throw on FACE TO FACE. That recording
absolutely *inhabits* my soul and haunts me to this day. As much as I love
everything I have heard by The Kinks, this is the album I return to...time
after time.
It gets better and better each time I listen to it...as does MUSWELL
HILLBILLIES.
badlands420
> Funny you should mention Tom Petty. His songs always sound great when
> they come up in shuffle mode. He's got that old time sound - a strong
> upfront voice leading a band making good old rock music.
Tom Petty's written more great songs than most people realize. And for my
money, his more recent work is his best. Wildflowers and Highway Companion,
in particular, are both ridiculously good albums.
really real
>>
>> The Doors first album is one of the great treasures of our modern age.
>
> It's a good album. If they'd done nothing else during the sixties, I'd
> probably rate it along with Electric Comic Book, The Electric Prunes Travel
> Up To The Underground, and the first Seeds album.
>
> However, none of those are really in the same league as Village Green
> Preservation Society, Forever Changes, or Trout Mask Replica, which is the
> league I think about when we're discussing great treasures of our modern
> age.
Trout Mask Replica is one of the most pretentious albums ever, totally
unplayable. Forever Changes is oh so precious, and not as good as msot
of Da Capo, though much more ambitious. Village Green sounds a bit
dated these days, as the Kinks soared far beyond that album.
None of these albums have aged as well as The Doors first album, which
is much more focused and lively.
Babs
Have you heard the Mudcrutch album yet?
badlands420
> Have you heard the Mudcrutch album yet?
Haven't, planning on picking it up though. Think I'll do that tomorrow.
BarryGo...@ausi.com
> On May 8, 8:49 am, BarryGoldwa...@ausi.com wrote:
>
> 1. Pink Floyd.
> 2. REM.
> 3. The Doors.
> 4. Led Zeppelin.
> 5. The Smiths.
>
> Like Babs, I'd like to protest about the Velvet Underground
> nomination, and the Grateful Dead. They were often self-indulgent but
> not in the scheme of things over-rated.
>
> U2 - over-rated certainly. Pretentious: sometimes (eg Zooropa period
> especially).
>
> P.S. I do like some Led Zeppelin, but they *are* over-rated and
> pretentious.
Pink Floyd: Good call! "We don't need no education" indeed. I agree on
Led Zeppelin, as well; hearing Robert Plant's coloratura wanking on
themes from "Lord of the Rings" always annoyed me, and Jimmy Page
always solos as if drunk. John Paul Jones is a good bassist, though.
The Greatful Dead totally burned out after "Live Dead," and not a man
jack among them ever learned to sing. REM reminds me of Petty and the
Heartbreakers, a garage band that missed its calling, although I think
some of their songs are more original than Petty's.
Jumbo
> really real <reallyr...@shaw.ca> wrote:
> > Trout Mask Replica is one of the most pretentious albums ever, totally
> > unplayable.
>
> artists ever, this is a pretty difficult charge to make stick.
I'd agree it's not pretentious, in that it more than achieves what it
seems to set out to do. But I'd also agree with rr that it's
unplayable.
> Trout Mask Replica is among my favorite '60s albums, and I'd rank it
> above most Dylan and Beatles releases.
Clearly over-rated then.
Martin
> > Have you heard the Mudcrutch album yet?
>
> Haven't, planning on picking it up though. Think I'll do that tomorrow
This is pretty good. The only problem I've had with Tom is that,
although I think albums like Full Moon Fever, Damn The Torpedoes and
Southern Accents are great, there's a fair amount that is just 'pretty
good' or 'okay'. Then again, what's wrong with that? As Really Real
said, Tom Petty songs sound great on shuffle, even if it's an 'okay'
song. I find Highway Companion pretty weak overall, although it has a
few songs that are 'pretty good'
Martin
> This is pretty good
Woops, forgot to post the video:
Martin
> But I'd also agree with rr that it's
> unplayable
I don't have it, but my sister does and she said it plays fine.
There's a scratch on side two, but it's quite a small one
> > Trout Mask Replica is among my favorite '60s albums, and I'd rank it
> > above most Dylan and Beatles releases
> Clearly over-rated then
Ha! You tell him, Jumbo
Martin
> None of these albums have aged as well as The Doors first album, which
> is much more focused and lively
I bought the Doors albums a couple of years ago, after not listening
to them at all since the 6th form. I loved them then, particularly
Waiting For The Sun which I remember playing while getting stoned in
the woods. Listening again now I couldn't believe how I had taken Jim
Morrison's pompous, overblown bellowing seriously. This is mostly
about personal taste yet again, and Poisoned Rose is correct when he
says this kind of debate brings the 'don't call my favourite bands
overrated or pretentious' out in people, but I do think they sound
ridiculous. That irksome organ sound annoys me too. I tried to like
Led Zep too, but had similar problems with them. Anyway, please don't
say Highway 61 is anything less than perfect in pubic again - I might
start to cry
Me
> On May 8, 11:32 am, Me <BabaOhRea...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On May 8, 8:57 am, Raja <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> That's a really adult contribution to the subject under discussion.
> But, I see you have nearly mastered 9- & 11-letter words. Gold star
> for you!
>
> RS
I see that you have excellent "adult" writing skills Robin. You're
obviously a recent product of today's school system. My suggestion to
you is to repeat Freshman Grammar. You failed it, or at least, should
have failed it, judging by your writing skills.
M. Rick
again - I might start to cry
Now is the time for your tears.
Martin
Thanks - by the way, I meant 'public'. Please, no wisecracks
crazytimes
> On May 9, 5:52 am, really real <reallyr...@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
> > None of these albums have aged as well as The Doors first album, which
> > is much more focused and lively
>
> I bought the Doors albums a couple of years ago, after not listening
> to them at all since the 6th form. I loved them then, particularly
> Waiting For The Sun which I remember playing while getting stoned in
> the woods.
Does this have 'Not To Touch The Earth' on it?... Pretty heavy stuff
for an early teenager, as I recall... Sitting in a room with a buch
of stoned people, and then someone puts that on...
crazytimes
> >> The Doors first album is one of the great treasures of our modern age.
>
> > It's a good album. If they'd done nothing else during the sixties, I'd
> > probably rate it along with Electric Comic Book, The Electric Prunes Travel
> > Up To The Underground, and the first Seeds album.
>
> > However, none of those are really in the same league as Village Green
> > Preservation Society, Forever Changes, or Trout Mask Replica, which is the
> > league I think about when we're discussing great treasures of our modern
> > age.
>
> dated these days, as the Kinks soared far beyond that album.
The thing I've found about Village Green is that it's more relevant
than ever... Of its time, but, like much of its subject matter,
totally out of place in its own time of release... That album took a
while to grow on me... While the Arthur album sounds like the Kinks
would sound in the 70s and 80s, Village Green straddles the personnel
and sound changes of the early and later Kinks, and its totally
uncommercial... Ray made an album that he didn't care if anyone
liked, one he probably knew no one would buy, coming right on the
heels of their being a successful singles band... He made it, like
all the conjurings in the songs, for posterity...
really real
> That irksome organ sound annoys me too.
This could explain why you like Nashville Skyline better than Highway 61
Revisited
crazytimes
> > That irksome organ sound annoys me too.
>
> This could explain why you like Nashville Skyline better than Highway 61
> Revisited
Tell us that isn't true!...
Jumbo
> On May 9, 8:58 am, Jumbo <ch...@cupolagallery.com> wrote:
>
> > But I'd also agree with rr that it's
> > unplayable
>
> I don't have it, but my sister does and she said it plays fine.
Has she got a copy of Oh Mercy?
Jumbo
> by the way, I meant 'public'. Please, no wisecracks
Wise cracks???
Bob
news:XDQUj.196$bX3...@newsfe08.phx...
Agree 100%! I had "forgotten" about Petty and then I happened upon his
entire catalog and it is amazing the quality of his work. You can sure hear
his influences from The Beatles to Stones to Byrds to Rock-a-billy to you
name it. Great little songs.
badlands420
> I find Highway Companion pretty weak overall, although it has a
> few songs that are 'pretty good'
Listen to it about 10 times in a row.
Martin
> > That irksome organ sound annoys me too.
>
> This could explain why you like Nashville Skyline better than Highway 61
> Revisited
Well, I just prefer all those short, snappy country songs. Most of
his earlier songs - like Sad Eyed Lady Of The Lowlands and Desolation
Row - are too long and wordy. If those songs were reduced by
approximately 50%, and were 25% less wordy they'd be perfect. And If
they were sung by a pretentious egomaniac with a lizard fixation
they'd be perfect
really real
>
> Well, I just prefer all those short, snappy country songs. Most of
> his earlier songs - like Sad Eyed Lady Of The Lowlands and Desolation
> Row - are too long and wordy. If those songs were reduced by
> approximately 50%, and were 25% less wordy they'd be perfect. And If
> they were sung by a pretentious egomaniac with a lizard fixation
> they'd be perfect
Desolation Row is too long and wordy? That's the funniest thing I've
heard all day
Yes I like that Bob Dylan guy but he's too wordy. He should play his
three note solos more and cut down on all that songwriting.
Babs
>
> Trout Mask Replica is one of the most pretentious albums ever, totally
> unplayable.
Well, I'm playing it now and enjoying it as much as I always have. I
can't imagine what your problem is with this amazingly brilliant
album. It's a feast of sounds and wordplay.
"I cannot go back to your Frownland".
really real
>
> Considering Van Vliet is one of the most instinctual, spontaneous
> artists ever, this is a pretty difficult charge to make stick.
>
.....
>
> (Doors 1st album) Sounds better in truckstop jukeboxes, too.
I hesitate to discuss musical taste with you, poisoned rose, because he
don't seem to have the skills to do it without flinging insults, but to
me, Trout Mask Replica is all about pretentious teenagers having a
pretentious musical experience listening to a very pretentious album.
In my opinion, Beefheart can make very good music, but only when it
sounds like music. Clear Spot is full of great songs, as was his first
album. Tom Waits has a similar sound but he makes tons of wonderfully
melodic music.
You curse my taste in music and call it jukebox music, but for me, this
is what music is all about. When music gets all Stravinksyesque, I just
find it boring. I love it when Coltrane throws in an old pop song and
works all around it, but when Ornette Colman gets all squawky, I walk away.
Babs
>
> In my opinion, Beefheart can make very good music, but only when it
> sounds like music. Clear Spot is full of great songs, as was his first
> album. Tom Waits has a similar sound but he makes tons of wonderfully
> melodic music.
Hmmm. As Bill Clinton might have said, if asked his opinion on the
matter, "That depends on what your definition of music is."
I hear music everywhere. In the ocean, in traffic, in the clanging of
garbage pail lids, in the bouncing high diving board, in the bowling
ball strike, in butter sizzling in the pan and in Captain Beefheart's
"Trout Mask Replica".
Jumbo
> I love it when Coltrane throws in an old pop song and
> works all around it, but when Ornette Colman gets all squawky, I walk away.
Play it as background a few times then it kicks in, man.
really real
>
> You sure seem awfully afraid of any music which makes you stretch
> outside your comfort zone.
You might have a point here. I like it when the lyrics take me outside
my comfort zone, but I don't like to lose the beauty of the melody. I
want my discords to be intellectual, not aural.
really real
>
> Eureka. An opinion which manages to exhibit some self-awareness.
Try some of that yourself. It will make this a better newsgroup.
Martin
> That's the funniest thing I've
> heard all day
Thanks
daysof48
Would lilke to see Mudcrotch in pubic.
Well, maybe not.
really real
>
> I am acutely self-aware.
Poisoned rose, you are acutely ironical. If you could only see yourself
the way the rest of us see you.
I'm always pasting some criticism someone has made of you, and you never
notice that I'm doing it. It's like nothing anyone says to you makes any
impression at all.
Jumbo
Is that a wisecrack?
Martin
> Would lilke to see Mudcrotch in pubic.
>
> Well, maybe not
I second that
Martin
> Personal opinion: "Trout Mask Replica is among my favorite '60s albums,
> and I'd rank it above most Dylan and Beatles releases."
>
> Proclamation of "fact": "Trout Mask Replica is one of the most
> pretentious albums ever, totally unplayable."
Proclamation of boredom: let's talk about something else
RichL
> Jimi Hendrix Experience (the first album was good, the next two kinda
> sucked)
Interestingly, in another thread (posted to a different set of
newsgroups), Raja lists JHE as one of the "seven most successful bands
of the 60s and 70s". When I questioned their inclusion, since they only
had 3 studio albums, he stated "All three at the top".
Make up your mind, laddie!
really real
>
>> Jimi Hendrix Experience (the first album was good, the next two kinda
>> sucked)
I see the three Hendrix's like the three Dylan's. Axis Bold as Love is
tne cusp.
RichL
Three Dylans? WTF? (and yes, "Axis" is the best, as far as I'm
concerned.)
Martin
> Three Dylans? WTF? (and yes, "Axis" is the best, as far as I'm
> concerned.)
It's got my favourite Hendrix song - Castles Made Of Sand
Raja
I was talking about their chart positions in that thread dummy.
RichL
That's a close second to me. Little Wing is my favorite on the album.
really real
>> It's got my favourite Hendrix song - Castles Made Of Sand
>
> That's a close second to me. Little Wing is my favorite on the album.
>
>
Maybe We'd Better Wait Until Tomorrow is my fave. It cracks me up every
time.
RichL
That one definitely showcases Jimi's humor!
"Click bang -- what a hang -- your daddy just shot poor me!"
BlackMonk
"Jumbo" <ch...@cupolagallery.com> wrote in message
news:46be4181-ee42-4c4c...@m45g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
On May 9, 6:23 am, poisoned rose <pr...@definitive.com> wrote:
> really real <reallyr...@shaw.ca> wrote:
> > Trout Mask Replica is one of the most pretentious albums ever, totally
> > unplayable.
>
> artists ever, this is a pretty difficult charge to make stick.
< I'd agree it's not pretentious, in that it more than achieves what it
seems to set out to do. But I'd also agree with rr that it's
unplayable. >
Many people have played it..
BlackMonk
"really real" <reall...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:0qZUj.125460$rd2.8336@pd7urf3no...
> I hesitate to discuss musical taste with you, poisoned rose, because he
> don't seem to have the skills to do it without flinging insults, but to
> me, Trout Mask Replica is all about pretentious teenagers having a
> pretentious musical experience listening to a very pretentious album.
>
Do you see the irony in the above paragraph?
BlackMonk
"Martin" <martin...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:33e1c800-eb1e-411c...@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>. Anyway, please don't
> say Highway 61 is anything less than perfect in pubic again - I might
> start to cry
One of my favorite Mike Bloomfield albums. The lead singer he had then was
pretty good, too.
really real
>
>> I hesitate to discuss musical taste with you, poisoned rose, because he
>> don't seem to have the skills to do it without flinging insults, but to
>> me, Trout Mask Replica is all about pretentious teenagers having a
>> pretentious musical experience listening to a very pretentious album.
>>
>
> Do you see the irony in the above paragraph?
I am acutely aware of the irony.
St. Annie
> really real <reallyr...@shaw.ca> wrote:
> > Trout Mask Replica is one of the most pretentious albums ever, totally
> > unplayable.
>
> Considering Van Vliet is one of the most instinctual, spontaneous
> artists ever, this is a pretty difficult charge to make stick.
>
> above most Dylan and Beatles releases.
>
> > of Da Capo, though much more ambitious. Village Green sounds a bit
> > dated these days, as the Kinks soared far beyond that album.
>
> Just quick, superficial shots...you'll need far more firepower to take
> down albums which are so "enshrined."
>
> > None of these albums have aged as well as The Doors first album, which
> > is much more focused and lively.
>
> Sounds better in truckstop jukeboxes, too.
CLEAR SPOT FOREVER.
Long live Mr. van Vliet (related to former mayor of NY John Vliet
Lindsay. Small world).
I can't listen to Pet Sounds without getting really depressed but this
doesn't keep it from being one of the best. However, I agree that
everything U2 have done since War is immensely overrated.
Jumbo
> "BlackMonk" <BlackM...@email.msn.com> wrote:
> > > > Trout Mask Replica is one of the most pretentious albums ever, totally
> > > > unplayable.
>
> > > Considering Van Vliet is one of the most instinctual, spontaneous
> > > artists ever, this is a pretty difficult charge to make stick.
>
> > < I'd agree it's not pretentious, in that it more than achieves what it
> > seems to set out to do. But I'd also agree with rr that it's
> > unplayable. >
>
> > Many people have played it..
>
>
> Here's where a large cross-section of critics statistically ranks it
> among '60s albums...they apparently rate it more "playable" than
> legendary period albums including Bringing It All Back Home, A Love
> Supreme, Music from Big Pink, Dusty in Memphis, Tommy, Led Zeppelin I &
> II, Aftermath, Sweetheart of the Rodeo, Everybody Knows This Is Nowhere,
> The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan, Disraeli Gears, A Hard Day's Night, Johnny
> Cash at Folsom Prison, Village Green Preservation Society, Green River,
> The Who Sell Out, Mr. Tambourine Man, With the Beatles, Something Else,
> Crosby Stills & Nash, Willie & the Poorboys, Buffalo Springfield Again,
> John Wesley Harding, Please Please Me, Face to Face, Strange Days,
> Help!, The Times They Are a-Changin, Days of Future Passed, Beatles for
> Sale, Traffic, Magical Mystery Tour, Another Side of Bob Dylan....
So?
crazytimes
'Putney says the Borman Six Girl is got to have soul!'...
really real
>
> CLEAR SPOT FOREVER.
> Long live Mr. van Vliet (related to former mayor of NY John Vliet
> Lindsay. Small world).
My sentiments exactly. I'm wondering now if there is anyone who listens
to Trout Mask Replica who wasn't drug-impaired when they first heard it.
Has anyone new bought and listened to Trout Mask Replica in the last 20
years?
Martin
> Has anyone new bought and listened to Trout Mask Replica in the last 20
> years?
They say there's a chap in Bexhill who bought one, but I don't believe
it
Bill Parr
> My sentiments exactly. I'm wondering now if there is anyone who listens
> to Trout Mask Replica who wasn't drug-impaired when they first heard it.
> Has anyone new bought and listened to Trout Mask Replica in the last 20
> years?
Yes.
Bill Parr
Babs
Yes. A friend with impeccable taste in music introduced me to this
album in 2002 -- wanting to know where I'd been all its life. ;-)
crazytimes
Rmd should start a listening group each week that listens to a
particular album - by Dylan or his contemporaries of the last 65-odd
years... and then the album gets discussed, disgusted, dissected,
trifected, collated, annonated, categorized, demonized, lionized,
hypnotised, and smashed or trashed... Then we move on to the next
album... We can start with some magazine's top-100 list... Albums
are now readily available to piratees online at the drop of a byte...
so I hear... You have to delete said album within 24 hours after
listening to it, of course...
Or it can just be a reading group... Or... hey, wait, how about
everyone record a Dylan song and we make a compilation called 'RMD
Does Dylan, Too (II)'... Nah... too complicated and involved...
Lookingglass
"really real" <reall...@shaw.ca> wrote
>
> My sentiments exactly. I'm wondering now if there is anyone who listens to
> Trout Mask Replica who wasn't drug-impaired when they first heard it.
>
> Has anyone new bought and listened to Trout Mask Replica in the last 20
> years?
I bought TROUT MASK REPLICA about two or three years ago, after reading that
Andy Partridge (XTC) considered it a *desert island*, must have, recording.
As I appreciate Andy's music, I wanted to hear what it was that made this
recording so high in his estimation.
...I need to listen to this recording a few more times.
Robert
> On May 8, 2:49 am, BarryGoldwa...@ausi.com wrote:
>
> > This ought to be a jolly discussion. Here are my two initial nominees:
>
> > 1. Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers: formulaic songs, recycled generic
> > licks, garage-band chops. Petty's persona is like something an ad
> > agency would paste together after a few focus groups.
>
> > 2. (sure to be controversial) U2! Bono has a distinctive and
> > expressive voice, but after years of songs that all sound alike, it is
> > like listening to a rock version of Barry Manilow. He doesn't wear
> > celebrity well; it's like watching a rock version of Hugh Hefner. His
> > band mates play the same licks on every song.
>
> I will add to the list
>
> Beach Boys (apart from a dozen singles, they are average. None of
> their albums are excellent)
> Doors (except the debut album none of the rest are upto par)
> Jimi Hendrix Experience (the first album was good, the next two kinda
> sucked)
> Cream (pretentious knobs. Disraeli Gears is the only good album.
> Wheels of Fire has too much of pointless wankery)
> Allman Brothers Band (the kings of pointless wankery)
> Creedence Clearwater Revival (gets old after a while)
> Velvet Underground (the debut was excellent but the other three pretty
> much sucked)
> Queen (except The Night of the Opera no albums of theirs can be called
> a classic)
> U2 (the worst of the lot here. completely one dimensional)
> Clash (only their debut is good. London Calling is long and boring)
> Van Halen (stupid, dumnb and low quality material except for a few
> songs)
> Eagles (formulaic much like U2)
> REM (the dullest band ever)
> Radiohead (I was wrong, this the dullest band ever)
> Pearl Jam/Nirvana/Soundgarden/Alice in Chains (these are not all time
> great bands, no matter how much you try to convince me)
> Talking Heads (weird and hardly have memorable songs)
> Chicago (except for the debut, pretty lame)
And exactly which bands are NOT overrated and pretentious?