Pat Garret and Billy the Kid
really real
last night, and I watched a bunch of it. Here are my impressions.
Dylan looked impossibly cute! Has he ever looked so good in a movie? But
what was he doing in that movie? It was clear that Peckinpah was just
exploiting his fame and charisma for the movie. We get long looks at
Dylan's face as he reacts to what's going on. The biggest facial
reaction was when Kristofferson as Billy was rap-singing his song about
all the towns he'd been in. The song was like a parody of Wanted Man. I
wonder who wrote those lines? At the end, there's a scene where Dylan
goes up to Billy, near the end, and tells him that Pat Garret is coming,
and Billy asks,"for a drink" and Dylan snickers and walks away. Would
Peckinpah have included this dumb scene if he didn't have Dylan to play it?
Much of the movie was full of those 70s cliches. Parts of the movie
worked well, but parts of it seemed silly. Seeing Rita Coolidge in the
love scene brought a lot of 70s memories back. Kristofferson was quite
amazing to look at in the movie, though I kept seeing a bit of Jeff
Bridges as Starman. I wonder which movie came first?
This must have been the post-directors cut because the movie begins with
a collage of Pat Garret being shot, and earlier flashback scenes of
chicken being shot, and other shoot-outs. I must say, Jason Robards as
Garret, was the best thing about the movie.
Musically, I found the movie quite odd too. I can't keep track of which
Billy was which, but the first Billy we hear has some pretty silly
rhymes and some lines that seem too literal for a good movie song. Would
Peckinpah have used these Billy songs had they been written by an
unknown? Don't get me wrong, I like the Billy songs and the soundtrack a
lot, especially Dylan's voice in these recordings, but even most of the
instrumentals in the movie seemed a bit intrusive. And there was a
repeated Dylan yady-yay riff played a lot. I forget if that is on the
album or not.
For Dylan fans,the movie is essential of course, because we see Dylan in
full Hollywood gloss mode, trying to do his best at acting with very
little dialog. How sad that Dylan never looked good like this in any
movie or video that came later. And how interesting that this
semi-crazed project created Dylan's most accessible song, Knocking On
Heaven's Door.
CurrentOccupant_dudley
Waaalll waaalll waalll if'n it ain't old really real.
It's good to have the both of you back. Christ you know it ain't easy.
Rather than a point-by-point reply (not my forte, eh?), a coupla
comments on yr most welcomed post.
First off, yr mistake is to watch in HD. Best way is to watch on an
olde VHS tape made offa the TV set, old enough where the colours have
begun to run. Bob still looks cute.
As to Peckinpah exploiting Bob, i'll bet Sam had no idea what to do
with dylan; i believe he was quoted as saying dylan was only there
because he needed or wanted to make a record. Hence the "alias
anything y'want" "ummm beans", "i got me a turkey" dialogue.
As to which "cut" you saw, i'm told the treatment of that most
accessible bobSong, KoHD, is different in commercial vs. director's
cut. More knowledgeable filmist cognoscenti can weigh in here.
And thanks, as ever, for planting an obvious goof for me to catch.
Jason Robards wd've been the Governour of the Territory; James Coburn
("Our Man Flint") wd've been Pat.
I'll beg off furthur discourse, except to note that no discussion of
this movie is complete without the following quote, courtesy imdb:
}
Billy: Ol' Pat... Sheriff Pat Garrett. Sold out to the Santa Fe ring.
How does it feel?
Garrett: It feels like... times have changed.
Billy: Times, maybe. Not me.
{
Or bob's comment, heard on the Pecos something boot, to the effect:
"I'm never doing another movie again".
dudley
___
Billy: [to the man whose horse he's stolen after breaking out of jail
and killing Deputy Sheriff Bob Ollinger with a shotgun loaded with 16
silver dimes, after the man complains about being reimbursed for the
animal] "There's a buck-sixty in old Bob if you can dig it out."
Just Walkin'
resident conversational controversialists than to have his
recollections fine-tuned by our senior historical material research
specialist. Way to go!
Now that the conventioneers have all left town and their water
balloons have stopped falling from the upper stories, perhaps we can
get some peace and quiet around here...
Those sons of the desert; they should have gone to Hawaii instead...
The Hysterical Bride
OMG!!!!!! REALLY REAL IS BACK!!!!!!!!! HURRAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
MY COALITION TO SAVE RMD IS A SUCCESS!!!!!!!!!!
Janice
With apologies to Peckinpah fans...
The soundtrack outlives the movie. Great autumn sunset listening,
feet up, day's end.
I'm sure everyone on the set had a great ol' time making the movie,
but I always thought the movie was the result of a kind of inbreeding
that was a little embarrassing for everyone involved. Maybe it's my
imagination (and certainly just my opinion), but everyone seemed to be
trying too hard to be So Cool. I am constantly aware of how hard
everyone is "acting" and (to me) it just doesn't stand the test of
time except as a curiosity if you want to see a young (yes, cute)
Dylan pretending to be a movie star.
~`~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Hysterical Bride
>
> - Show quoted text -
I don't remember where I read this, so maybe someone can confirm/deny.
There was one person on the set who was not having such a great time.
Sara with all the kids: "What the hell are we doing here?"
lol.
I liked that.
Boy, Bob Dylan sure got lucky. Three times. I can't believe anybody
would marry that dope.
Jumbo
Last time I watched it (last year) it was simultaneously better and
not quite as good as I remembered it being when I watched it time
before that way back in 1990. (I'm back in a scary zen-zone, sorry
Gemini.) Any film that can be simultaneously better and worse than you
remember must have something going for it, but I take your points
Janice, although maybe it's your awareness of people trying hard to
act that is making them seem to be trying too hard.
Gemini Jackson
<ch...@cupolagallery.com> wrote:
>Last time I watched it (last year) it was simultaneously better and
>not quite as good as I remembered it being when I watched it time
>before that way back in 1990. (I'm back in a scary zen-zone, sorry
>Gemini.)
I understand that actually. Lots of older, dated movies have that
effect on me. Scarface comes to mind.
>Any film that can be simultaneously better and worse than you
>remember must have something going for it, but I take your points
>Janice, although maybe it's your awareness of people trying hard to
>act that is making them seem to be trying too hard.
I really need to see this movie someday.
-GJ
really real
> No better way to celebrate the return of our one of our leading
> resident conversational controversialists than to have his
> recollections fine-tuned by our senior historical material research
> specialist. Way to go!
>
Thanks JW
I also posted this in past films newsgroups .a.m.-past-films newsgroup.
Perhaps I should have cross posted it, but I haven't yet figured out the
ethics or practicalities of cross posting. Here's what's being said there:
Kingo Gondo
It is a very rare occasion when someone discusses a movie for several
paragraphs and everything he or she says is something that I would never
say, and they fail to say everything I would think important.
So, for this film at least, we are as matter and anti-matter.
The Might Favoq
The movie is just a good excuse for me to listen to the soundtrack.
After all these years the record album is still among my favorites.
And I do like some of the movie -- the Slim Pickens death scene with
Katy Jurado will always break my heart. So what if much of the movie
is a mess? I like it anyway. It's playing on a Hi-Def channel?
Which one? I need a better version that the (I suspect) bootleg
version I bought on DVD a few years ago.
Kingo Gondo
http://www.hd.net/movies_search_results.html?keyword=garrett&wheretosearch=title
tomcervo
I think it's a mess because it's "Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid". If
it was just "Pat Garrett", it would be Peckinpah's greatest movie.
Loren Estleman wrote a novel about Garrett's life that reads like
Dennis Quaid's Doc Holiday--dark, dry and funny. So is Peckinpah's/
Coburn's Garrett.
The Might Favoq
What? You're suggesting Kris Kristofferson wasn't exactly the perfect
choice physically, vocally, temperamentally, actingabilityly to play
America's favorite folk hero William H. Bonney or whatever the
sniveling, murdering little horse thief's real name was? You actually
look at Kristofferson in the part and wonder what were they THINKING? Hmph.
really real
I found the scenes with James Coburn the best part of the movie. Kris's
facial movements, and the close ups of his face, all seemed to be a bit
too special. Was he acting, or just goofing off, in front of the camera?
The savage cabage
it a deeply flawed mooie that elegizes the west in special way.
ride the high country about fading of the west with sad but beautiful
uplift. we sense the man enter his house justified. he knock on
heaven's door and god accept him good.
wild bunch about end of west as crimson sunset. it all bloody and
shit but at least they die with big bang and mucho fiesta. it tragic
but still kind of uplifting.
really real
For me, the problem really comes out in Dylan's song, Billy, with the line:
"Billy, they don't like you to be so free"
That "freedom" word really became a cliche in late 60s songs, and here
it kind of sticks out as a strange way to talk about a criminal.
Just what were Billy's crimes, anyway. In this movie, Billy just looks
like a fun guy who gets his kicks out of shooting chickens.
really real
> Waaalll waaalll waalll if'n it ain't old really real.
>
> It's good to have the both of you back. Christ you know it ain't easy.
Thanks, dudely. I figure, seeing as I'm the one who broke rmd, the least
I can do is come around and try to pump some life back into it.
>
> Rather than a point-by-point reply (not my forte, eh?), a coupla
> comments on yr most welcomed post.
>
> First off, yr mistake is to watch in HD. Best way is to watch on an
> olde VHS tape made offa the TV set, old enough where the colours have
> begun to run. Bob still looks cute.
I need to get it on dvd again. My particular form of ADD doesn't allow
me to watch a whole movie on tv in one sitting, so I missed some key
scenes this time around.
> Billy: Ol' Pat... Sheriff Pat Garrett. Sold out to the Santa Fe ring.
> How does it feel?
> Garrett: It feels like... times have changed.
> Billy: Times, maybe. Not me.
I wonder if this line would have been in the movie if Bob had never
shown up. It sure made me think of Times They Are A'Changing
> Or bob's comment, heard on the Pecos something boot, to the effect:
> "I'm never doing another movie again".
If only........
Or is the great Bob Dylan performance in a movie yet to come.