Lenny vs Bob
President_dudley
I've often noticed that if you take two photos of Bob & Leonard & cover up
the eyes on up, you really can't tell the difference (assuming Bob's
cleanshaven).
Of course the same can be said of Jason Robards Jr. & Humphrey Bogart.
I'm just wondering if anyone cares to nominate a dylan lyric that approaches
this L.Cohen work, recorded in a motel room in Tennessee & available only on
the 1973 LiveSongs LP:
>
Queen Victoria,
My father and all his tobacco loved you,
I love you too in all your forms,
the slim and lovely virgin floating among German beer,
the mean governess of the huge pink maps,
the solitary mourner of a prince.
Queen Victoria,
I am cold and rainy,
I am dirty as a glass roof in a train station,
I feel like an empty cast iron exhibition,
I want ornaments on everything,
because my love, she gone with other boys.
Queen Victoria,
do you have a punishment under the white lace,
will you be short with her, will you make her read those little Bibles,
will you spank her with a mechanical corset.
I want her pure as power, I want her skin slightly musty with petticoats
will you wash the easy bidet out of her head?
Queen Victoria,
I'm not much nourished by modern love,
will you come into my life
with your sorrow and your black carriages,
And your perfect
memories.
Queen Victoria,
the Twentieth Century belongs to you and me.
Let us be two severe giants not less lonely for our partnership,
who discolour test tubes in the halls of Science,
who turn up unwelcome at every World's Fair,
heavy with proverbs and corrections,
confusing the star-dazed tourists
with our incomparable sense of loss.
>
BTW, this is a great song to throw into the mix at any party... really
livens things up.
Take Care of Yrself & Get Plenty of Rest
dudley
Lloyd Fonvielle
> I'm just wondering if anyone cares to nominate a dylan lyric that approaches
> this L.Cohen work, recorded in a motel room in Tennessee & available only on
> the 1973 LiveSongs LP:
> >
> Queen Victoria,
> My father and all his tobacco loved you,
> I love you too in all your forms,
> the slim and lovely virgin floating among German beer,
> the mean governess of the huge pink maps,
> the solitary mourner of a prince . . .
This is a fun lyric, very clever, but too precious and literary. The images
are intellectually stimulating but rarely have a visceral impact, a
suggestiveness that calls up deep memories and emotions. Some of the lyrics
Dylan wrote with Levy "approach" this kind of self-conscious, over-calculated
surrealism -- and do not rank among his best work.
Cohen sometimes rises above his literary calculation. There are lines and
images in "Hallelujah" and that song he wrote about Janis Joplin -- can't
remember the title -- which startle and amaze on every hearing, but he's not
consistent enough to "approach" Dylan on this score.
Patricia Jungwirth
<<<<
Thank goodness we have both of them, and they don't have to compete.
And with regard to Queen Vic, Ray Davies said it better!
Tricia
"I wish I was on some Australian mountain range
I got no reason to be there but
I imagine it would be some kinda change... "
-Bob Dylan, 'Outlaw Blues'
-January 1965
***tric...@aardvark.net.au
Blonde On Blonde: Bob Dylan in Melbourne, 1966:
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Hills/5581/
http://www.allexperts.com/displayExpert.asp?Expert=1806
--
Posted from aardie.aardvark.net.au [203.36.12.10]
via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
Spencers
> I'm just wondering if anyone cares to nominate a dylan lyric that approaches
> this L.Cohen work, recorded in a motel room in Tennessee & available only on
> the 1973 LiveSongs LP:
>
> >
> Queen Victoria,
> My father and all his tobacco loved you,
> I love you too in all your forms,
> the slim and lovely virgin floating among German beer,
> the mean governess of the huge pink maps,
> the solitary mourner of a prince.
>
Here, I'll nominate one. How about:
Under that apple suckling tree, oh yeah
Under that apple suckling tree, oh yeah
Underneath that tree, it's just gonna be you and me
Under that apple suckling tree, oh yeah
robertandrews
>Queen Victoria,
Yes, my child
>do you have a punishment under the white lace
Hmmm . . .
>will you be short with her
Short?
>will you make her read those little Bibles
Little?
>will you spank her with a mechanical corset
You must be looking for the Prince.
michae...@my-deja.com
"President_dudley" <dud...@cloud9.net> wrote:
> Round 3
>
>I've often noticed that if you take two photos of Bob & Leonard &
>cover up the eyes on up, you really can't tell the difference
>(assuming Bob's
>cleanshaven).
>
the cover of the "Don't Be Late" boot) looks almost identical to the
cover of Lenny's "Various Positions" album.
So much so that you can't help but wonder if Avedon and/or Dylan were
trying to replicate it.
Michael
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
wesjo...@my-deja.com
Lloyd Fonvielle <navi...@compuserve.com> wrote:
There are lines and images in "Hallelujah" and that song he wrote about
Janis Joplin -- can't remember the title --
Chelsea Hotel...>
Martin Golan
hearings, and is as elusive and as evocative as a good Bob song, is "Famous
Blue Raincoat." The Cohen songs that I loved way back sound dated and
precious to me now, filled with striking images that fall apart when you
think about them. Somehow, though Bob writes seemingly similar lyrics, his
get richer and richer over the years - even though I still can't REALLY
explain them.
Martin (in Montclair)
Check out the Web site of my new novel:
mywifeslastlover.com
Lloyd Fonvielle
> In article <3A24CFB1...@compuserve.com>,
> Lloyd Fonvielle <navi...@compuserve.com> wrote:
> There are lines and images in "Hallelujah" and that song he wrote about
> Janis Joplin -- can't remember the title --
>
> Chelsea Hotel...>
Thanks! Great song, by the way.
Tumulty
<< Somehow, though Bob writes seemingly similar lyrics, his
get richer and richer over the years - even though I still can't REALLY
explain them. >>
Most of Dylan's lyrics take on and survive a multitude of projected meanings
from last year to next. What I gathererd from a song in '73 has probably
changed many times since. The more we change the more we are alike?
TuMuLTY
President_dudley
Thnaks for your kind responses.
I'll confess now that I'm just here shilling for Mr. Cohen, he called me up
the other night & sed "dudley" he sed "ya think ya cd get some of them DYlna
fans to buy my new record that's being released just in time for the
holidays (feb 20 '01... Prezdent's Day)? It's another live recording since I
really don't have much new & besides it takes me so long to write 'em"
However, I'd like to respond to just a coupla points:
President_dudley wrote in message ...
>I've often noticed that if you take two photos of Bob & Leonard & cover up
>the eyes on up, you really can't tell the difference (assuming Bob's
>cleanshaven).
>
To which mr. michaelgsmith retorts:
>The photo Richard Avedon took of Bob for the cover of Newsweek (also
the cover of the "Don't Be Late" boot) looks almost identical to the
cover of Lenny's "Various Positions" album.
So much so that you can't help but wonder if Avedon and/or Dylan were
trying to replicate it.
>
The newswk cover was precisely the shot that drove this home to me, tho' I
can't put my hands on my copy of that issue (PS pleadingly if anyone cd
xerographically copy that cover/article for me reply to author, i'll send
yuh mah address & return the favour somehow TBD) to compare it to the
Various Positions cover. To my knowledge it wdn't be the first time Robert's
copied a previous photo (somebody mentioned Nashville Skyline once) but the
same cd be said of Joe Jackson.
Interesting point, I've spoken to a number of people, including the elevator
guy at work who seems to know everything, & no-one has ever seen Bob & Lenny
in the same room. Kinda like the Joe Montana-Barry Manilow thing.
>I'm just wondering if anyone cares to nominate a dylan lyric that
approaches
>this L.Cohen work, recorded in a motel room in Tennessee & available only
on
>the 1973 LiveSongs LP:
>
Of all the respondees to this post, only one Spencers actually suggested a
competing lyric:
>
Under that apple suckling tree, oh yeah
>
Well, Mr. Spencers, I'm sure that you'll agree that the deeply nuanced
subtleties of that lyric far outweigh the frivolous nature of Mr. Cohen's
work. In point of fact, the only Dynla lyric I can think of that approaches
Len's most serendipitous hackwork is found on a rare recording "Tuvulan
(sp?) Throat Singers Duz Zimmerman", esp. track 33, a reworking of "Turkey
Chase" offa PG&BtK, the only known extant fragmented lyric being:
"I got me a turkey!"
Further, Martin (in Montclair) writes:
>In my view, the only Leonard Cohen song that holds up after repeated
hearings, and is as elusive and as evocative as a good Bob song, is "Famous
Blue Raincoat." >
I've got a tape of that song sung by Jennifer Warnes on a Smothers Brothers
Show, might've been a special, miked directly offa tinny TV speaker.
No, it was "Song of Bernadette".
Finally, Mr. Fonvielle weighs in:
>
This is a fun lyric, very clever, but too precious and literary. The images
are intellectually stimulating but rarely have a visceral impact, a
suggestiveness that calls up deep memories and emotions. Some of the lyrics
Dylan wrote with Levy "approach" this kind of self-conscious,
over-calculated
surrealism -- and do not rank among his best work.
Cohen sometimes rises above his literary calculation. There are lines
and
images in "Hallelujah" and that song he wrote about Janis Joplin -- can't
remember the title -- which startle and amaze on every hearing, but he's not
consistent enough to "approach" Dylan on this score.>
>
As always, yr observations are both astute & discerning.
I beg to differ. This is NOT a "fun lyric", it is darkly obsessive & starkly
& relentlessly depressive more on a par with Lou Reed's "Berlin" than even
"Dirge". I commend you to http://www.leonardcohen.com/queenl.html for a
brief sample.
As to cleverness, I think it was in the aforementioned but unavailable to me
Newswk article that Bob recognised the difference between his serious work &
when he was just being "clever". Given the chance, he might even comment on
his own selfconscious overcalculations. And also therein a recounting of the
exchange between Bobby & Lenny re: their work ethic... something like:
Bobby: How long did it take you to write [names a song]?
Lenny: About 4 years. How long did it take you to write [names a song]?
Bobby: About 20 minutes.
Basically I have to object to yr suggestion that any of Cohen's work, from
"Suzanne" to "Closing Time" is surrealistic. Hyperrealistic might be a
better description, from Prince Albert in a Can to mechanical corsets & easy
bidets (pretty visceral to me, whilst still connecting intellectually...
somewheres around the heart).
'Course, who 'round here remembers "petticoats" other than functioning at
the junction?
But, my, do I ramble. I'll leave you with this, a haiku-like Cohen bit, also
quite intellectually visceral, totally inaccurate but entered into Cohenlore
nevertheless:
There is nothing
emptier than my
empty opium drawer
Yea! Heavy and a bottle of bread
Eleanor Roosevelt Gook
____________________________
There was a child named Bernadette
I heard the story long ago
She saw the Queen of Heaven once
And kept the vision in her soul
No one believed what she had seen
No one believed what she heard
That there were sorrows to be healed
And mercy, mercy in this world
So many hearts I find
Broke like yours and mine
Torn by what we've done and can't undo
I just want to hold you
Won't you let me hold you
Like Bernadette would do
We've been around, we fall, we fly
We mostly fall, we mostly run
And every now and then we try
To mend the damage that we've done
Tonight, tonight I cannot rest
I've got this joy inside my breast
To think that I did not forget
That child, that song of Bernadette
So many hearts I find
Broke like yours and mine
Torn by what we've done and can't undo
I just want to hold you
Won't you let me hold you
Like Bernadette would do
Sincerely,
L.Cohen
Spencers
> Of all the respondees to this post, only one Spencers actually suggested a
> competing lyric:
>
> >
> Under that apple suckling tree, oh yeah
> >
>
> Well, Mr. Spencers, I'm sure that you'll agree that the deeply nuanced
> subtleties of that lyric far outweigh the frivolous nature of Mr. Cohen's
> work. In point of fact, the only Dynla lyric I can think of that approaches
> Len's most serendipitous hackwork is found on a rare recording "Tuvulan
> (sp?) Throat Singers Duz Zimmerman", esp. track 33, a reworking of "Turkey
> Chase" offa PG&BtK, the only known extant fragmented lyric being:
>
> "I got me a turkey!"
>
Thank you, Mr. President. I, of course, agree with your assessment to the last
detail. And I've begun work on a magnum opus comparing this lost turkey Dylna
lyric to Mr. Charles Mingus' illuminating masterpiece, "Oh mama, eat that
chicken / Eat that chicken pie!"
Tumulty
<< I've often noticed that if you take two photos of Bob & Leonard & cover up
the eyes on up, you really can't tell the difference (assuming Bob's
cleanshaven).
Of course the same can be said of Jason Robards Jr. & Humphrey Bogart. >>
You'd better be careful choosing a brush
in the bathroom Dudley.