Sad, It Took Tammy's Death....
F.Gentry
>
> It took Tammy Wynette's death to make Nashville's top (HNC) country station to
> add some oldies....they haven't done that for YEARS! I heard Johnny Paycheck's
> "Don't Take Her, She's All I Got" on the way home tonight! They had BIll
> Anderson on this morning...I was in shock! This all happened after the
> "beating" they took after Tammy's death (they did a whole day of her
> hits)...and fans asked if it took a death to play her music. They demanded the
> older ones...and now we have it!!
>
> I'm a happy camper!
> -Brat
>
> Cats and women will do as they please....
> dogs and men should relax and get used to it.
Brat npow that we have that out of the way what about Los Angeles.
Thjey damn sure haven't played any of the old stars. The main thing is
I want to know what I should do about this song I started and was going
to give you half the royalties to help me write it. That could be one
hell of a song if we could get country radio to play it. Be careful
that you don't let the cat out of the bag. You kmnow what I mean.
Nshvlbrat
fe...@netdoor.com
Nshvlbrat
>which station ?
Fedge...
WSIX....Jerry House had Bill on this morning! Their policy had been "only
charted artists".
Balecox
Scott
>
> It took Tammy Wynette's death to make Nashville's top (HNC) country station to
> add some oldies....they haven't done that for YEARS! I heard Johnny Paycheck's
> "Don't Take Her, She's All I Got" on the way home tonight! They had BIll
> Anderson on this morning...I was in shock! This all happened after the
> "beating" they took after Tammy's death (they did a whole day of her
> hits)...and fans asked if it took a death to play her music. They demanded the
> older ones...and now we have it!!
>
> I'm a happy camper!
I love everything Connie Smith does, but if they're going to play her,
let's hope it's her NEW album rather than her previous hits.
F.Gentry
>
> It's new material, most songs co-written by Connie and Marty Stuart.
number is a little weird. These songs are all new and they have to grow
on ya.
Country Boy
> Nshvlbrat wrote:
> >
> > It took Tammy Wynette's death to make Nashville's top (HNC) country
station to
> > add some oldies....they haven't done that for YEARS! I heard Johnny
Paycheck's
> > "Don't Take Her, She's All I Got" on the way home tonight! They had
BIll
> > Anderson on this morning...I was in shock! This all happened after the
> > "beating" they took after Tammy's death (they did a whole day of her
> > hits)...and fans asked if it took a death to play her music. They
demanded the
> > older ones...and now we have it!!
> >
> > I'm a happy camper!
> > -Brat
> >
They demanded it from the radio, but it didn't translate into record sales.
And Epic just released a big collection of Tammy's old hits.
I wouldn't agree with your comment that Tammy's death brought this about.
I noticed that Fedge posted something about his 80s radio show, and from
what I can see, it started way before Tammy died.
This trend in radio began about a year ago. Some stations decided they'd
rather play familiar old songs than unfamiliar new ones. The problem with
that is it's caused the music charts to stagnate. There are only 24 hours
in a day. So instead of playing more new music, they play less. Which
means very few new artists are getting their songs played now. So a lot of
careers will never happen, and you'll continue to hear old songs by artists
who sold their royalties away years ago. Who profits? The labels.
This trend hasn't happened everywhere...only on about 20 or 30 stations.
Balecox
with new acts, not old ones. I hope they split the country stations and
include Classic Country, much as WSM's AM & FM does. Otherwise, as Country
Boy said, a lot of new talent will get lost in the shuffle. And you know who
else said the very same thing? Ms. Tammy Wynette.
Patsi
F.Gentry
>>>Hell a lot of the new artists don't need their records played. Some of the old also.
I cxan not understand this going back to the 80s to play a good memorie
song. Hell there are good stereo memory songs back into the 50s and I'm
not talking about Mule Train or Walkin after Midnight. There are
thousands of good memory song we'll never hear again because radio will
only back ten years.
I can say one thing. If the song was on the charts and was a good
country song I would play it. There are so many stations that would
only play the big hits of old. They miss a hell of a lot of good music
this way. Its almost like hearing a new song yet the song is familiar.
Get what I mean????? Hell no. This is me and my opinion.
Elmer Alley
>
> >>>Hell a lot of the new artists don't need their records played. Some of the old also.
> I cxan not understand this going back to the 80s to play a good memorie
> song. Hell there are good stereo memory songs back into the 50s and I'm
> not talking about Mule Train or Walkin after Midnight. There are
> thousands of good memory song we'll never hear again because radio will
> only back ten years.
> I can say one thing. If the song was on the charts and was a good
> country song I would play it. There are so many stations that would
> only play the big hits of old. They miss a hell of a lot of good music
> this way. Its almost like hearing a new song yet the song is familiar.
> Get what I mean????? Hell no. This is me and my opinion.
What do you mean "back to fifties"?? You are as bad as the rest of them.
What about back to the twenties? I loved Uncle Dave Macon's "Whoa Mule,
Whoa" and "All Go Hungry Hash House" and what about Deford Bailey's
"Pan American" and "Fox Hunt" Used to hear them on the Opry when I was
having my Saturday night bath in the kitchen...in a washtub. :o)
GoParis
(Nshvlbrat) wrote:
> >bal...@aol.com (Balecox) wrote:
>
> >I hope they split the country stations and
> >include Classic Country, much as WSM's AM & FM does.
>
> Patsi..
>
> Wasn't there talk of doing just that about the first of the year? What ever
> became of it?
> Seems like the best solution...
> -Brat
If what you're hoping to achieve is a complete dissolution of anything
resembling country music, then yes, that's a perfect "solution." If,
however, you think that the segmenting of the format will bring back "real
country music," then you're wrong, in my opinion. I think that it will
only kill country music.
Nshvlbrat
>I hope they split the country stations and
>include Classic Country, much as WSM's AM & FM does.
Patsi..
Wasn't there talk of doing just that about the first of the year? What ever
became of it?
Seems like the best solution...
-Brat
Cats and women will do as they please....
Country Boy
Balecox <bal...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19981015045507...@ng54.aol.com>...
In the past few months since Tammy's death, dozens of young artists like
Terri Clark, Faith Hill, and Sara Evans have spoken out on the great advice
and support they received from Tammy. Tammy was a dignified and classy
lady. It's too bad some of the other members of her generation can't share
her generosity. Who's gonna fill her shoes? Lord I wonder...who's gonna
fill her shoes? Certainly not Dolly.
Don Winland
hate alot of what is called country today. MOST ALL the people I know my
age an upward will not listen to the top 40 stations, in fact, many have
stopped listening to the radio all together or found some alternative style.
Ask someone over the age of 25 what they think!!
GoParis wrote in message ...
>In article <19981015210739...@ng14.aol.com>, nshv...@aol.com
>(Nshvlbrat) wrote:
>
>> >bal...@aol.com (Balecox) wrote:
>>
>> >I hope they split the country stations and
>> >include Classic Country, much as WSM's AM & FM does.
>>
>> Patsi..
>>
>> Wasn't there talk of doing just that about the first of the year? What
ever
>> became of it?
>> Seems like the best solution...
>> -Brat
>
Norman Perry
Today's country radio audience is mostly kids. Kids control TV
and just about everything else these days. I'm a dyed-in-the-wool
country fan, but I stopped listening to what they now call country
on the radio about a year ago. I now listen only to music from my
"over fifty" year old record/CD collection which numbers in the
thousands and allows me make my own choice of music.
Norm (in FL)
**********************
Jeff Levin
Don Winland wrote in message <706lmb$rp2$1...@news.corpcomm.net>...
>I would hope that someone is hearing the older listeners like me, 34, I
>hate alot of what is called country today. MOST ALL the people I know my
>age an upward will not listen to the top 40 stations, in fact, many have
>stopped listening to the radio all together or found some alternative
style.
>Ask someone over the age of 25 what they think!!
Amen. I'm 39 and have listened to country radio for many hours a day nearly
every day of my life since I was about 11 or 12 years old. I even
subscribed to Billboard in high school and college, can tell you the chart
positions of most country singles released in the past 25 years, can name
probably every CMA and country Grammy winner in every category, have an
enormous country record & CD collection, have written at least 2000 country
songs, and even carry around my old Conway Twitty fan club card. I also
have a nice discretionary income to purchase products I hear advertised on
radio. In short, I'm precisely the last person in the world that country
radio wants to lose.
And here's the deal: they've f'n lost me, for good. I stopped listening to
the braindead HNC crap about a year ago. Finally, after about 6-7 years of
holding on, I gave up. Now, I listen to the local classical station and the
local NPR station all day while I work: wonderful classical music by
history's greatest composers, interspersed with news stories and interviews
by adults with a brain. In the evenings they play real (i.e., pre-fusion)
jazz, and on the weekends several hours of true country music: traditional
acoustic, contemporary folk, old-timey string band stuff, Delta blues,
Celtic jigs and reels, etc. For my modern country fix, I play CDs on my
computer now and then as I take a break from the classical/NPR stuff.
The only new country I've bought in the last couple years are new albums by
the left-behind folks (Cash, Nelson, Waylon, Connie, etc.) and new albums by
the cutting-edge folks banned from radio (Earle, Dement, Cheri Knight, Marty
Brown, Derailers, Buddy Miller, etc., etc.). Country radio these days is at
an all-time nadir; it can't possibly get any worse. Someday soon the
demographic being targeted is going to move on the bigger and better things,
and then there will be nothing left. I can't see the format ever
recovering. I suspect, though, with new modes of mass communication related
to the internet, radio as we know it will eventually die anyway. So HNC,
and its concomitant establishment Nashville institutions, are probably on
their way out in a few short years.
a
writes:
>The only new country I've bought in the last couple years are new
albums by the left-behind folks (Cash, Nelson, Waylon, Connie, etc.)
and new albums by the cutting-edge folks banned from radio (Earle,
Dement, Cheri Knight, Marty Brown, Derailers, Buddy Miller, etc.,
etc.). Country radio these days is at an all-time nadir; it can't
possibly get any worse. Someday soon the demographic being targeted is
going to move on the bigger and better things, and then there will be
nothing left. I can't see the format ever recovering. I suspect,
though, with new modes of mass communication related to the internet,
radio as we know it will eventually die anyway. So HNC, and its
concomitant establishment Nashville institutions, are probably on
their way out in a few short years.
This is a perceptive post. The question I want to ask you has one
word...
Why?
Why have supposedly brain-equipped BTOs in Nashville let it sink this
low, not only artistically but commercially?
You know, everybody is now waking up to the fact that rap/hip hop isn't
a passing fad. It's gonna be huge for awhile. An interesting article in
this week's NY Times wondered why, and the only answer they could come
up with was...rap artists are real. They call their own shots, sing
their own stuff, and have developed great word-of-mouth buzz. And, The
Times concluded, the success of rap (which doesn't get huge radio) is a
harbinger of days when radio becomes meaningless.
You don't have to be Mensa to see that if rap is flying, HNC has to be
sinking. They're poles apart in every way nowadays, including
dependence on gloss, hype, BTO control, sexism, segregation and radio.
You can go to Billboard-online.com and see the Top 100 album chart from
exactly five years ago. It's pretty interesting. Five years ago, there
were 24 country albums in the Top 100. Almost all of them were rising,
a third went multi-platinum, and half were relatively new acts.
How did it get from there to here in 60 months?
People laugh at me. But not one person out there has offered a more
coherent explanation than I have. And that includes Robert Oermann,
Chet Flippo, and all the other BTO mouthpieces.
The reason is...crime and cover-up in Nashville. Collusion, secrecy,
racketeering and antitrust. A white-collar mob has killed country
music. What was done to me at the Bottom Line was the tip of a huge
corrupt iceberg.
I'm praying that Suzy and others who know the details will come forward
to tell them, so country music can at least have a proper burial.
I'm here to help the story get told. I'm a good writer, and have been
for 30 years.
Stella
Elmer Alley
>
> I'm here to help the story get told. I'm a good writer, and have been
> for 30 years.
I believe that qualifies you as an "old hack"...a long time failure!
Elmer
Country Boy
a <guyg...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in article
<7081gq$o...@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com>...
> You don't have to be Mensa to see that if rap is flying, HNC has to be
> sinking. They're poles apart in every way nowadays, including
> dependence on gloss, hype, BTO control, sexism, segregation and radio.
>
Actually, many forms of music *can* increase in sales, if a new segment of
the audience starts buying music. That's what happened 8 years ago when
young people and women started buying country. So now young white men are
buying rap. But country is still selling well with women. And from what
I've seen, no single rap star has managed to sell as many records as Garth
Brooks.
So rap is flying, and country is flying. We'll see how a lot of these rap
artists do when it's time for their second albums to come out. They
usually have one big album, and then the money and fame takes over and they
find they can't repeat. Plus they do music that any one in their bathroom
could make. Highly disposable. Short shelf life.
> People laugh at me. But not one person out there has offered a more
> coherent explanation than I have. And that includes Robert Oermann,
> Chet Flippo, and all the other BTO mouthpieces.
>
> The reason is...crime and cover-up in Nashville. Collusion, secrecy,
> racketeering and antitrust.
So they commited this crime so they'd all go bankrupt and qualify for a
government bailout? Record labels are in business, and they make money
when people buy records. If your charges were true (which they're not),
then the labels plotted their own failure, which is ludicrous. No business
will do something that it knows will cause it to lose money. Unless you
can find a financial benefit for what you've charged, it's obvious the
charges are untrue.
What you might want to do is look back to the 1970s and see how poorly
country music was selling compared to rock. What conspiracy was that a
part of? How did Merle Haggard kill country music? As bad as country may
be selling now, it's market share is still way above what it was 10 years
ago. What happened between then and now was the creation of the
alternative rock format in radio and in record stores, which has split
young buyers. But they're most bankable artists are starting to
self-destruct. That is the format that is dying.
Country Boy
GoParis <utr...@dyjkt.org> wrote in article
<utrskuy-1510...@ppp121-pm-p4.tcsn.net>...
>
>
> If what you're hoping to achieve is a complete dissolution of anything
> resembling country music, then yes, that's a perfect "solution." If,
> however, you think that the segmenting of the format will bring back
"real
> country music," then you're wrong, in my opinion. I think that it will
> only kill country music.
>
I believe "the complete dissolution of anything resembling country music"
happened over 35 years ago, when electric instruments and drums became the
norm. It was a crime, and those turncoats should have been run out, as Bob
Dylan was booed at the Newport Folk Festival. Chet Atkins got rid of
banjos and Owen Bradley killed the twang. And now people call them
legends. Shows how quickly people forget.
Since the late 50s, country music has always been segmented. That's why it
used to be called country and western. That was just one indication of its
segmentation.
Country Boy
Norman Perry <norm...@homemail.com> wrote in article
<3626FBBC...@homemail.com>...
> You got that right!!! In fact, you can lower that age to 20.
> Today's country radio audience is mostly kids. Kids control TV
> and just about everything else these days. I'm a dyed-in-the-wool
> country fan, but I stopped listening to what they now call country
> on the radio about a year ago. I now listen only to music from my
> "over fifty" year old record/CD collection which numbers in the
> thousands and allows me make my own choice of music.
>
> Norm (in FL)
>
>
Norm, I don't mean to be disrespectful, but at your age, just about
everyone is a kid. Believe me. I know. The average age of the country
radio listener is about 32. That's according to Broadcasting magazine.
It's among the oldest of the radio formats currently on the air. If you
consider people who are 32 to be kids, then you're exactly right. Those
damned kids just have no respect anymore. And neither did you when you
were their age.
Country Boy
Jeff Levin <le...@idir.net> wrote in article
<ZvLV1.106$sn5...@newsfeed.slurp.net>...
> Country radio these days is at
> an all-time nadir; it can't possibly get any worse. Someday soon the
> demographic being targeted is going to move on the bigger and better
things,
> and then there will be nothing left.
Funny...that's what the critics said about The Beatles 35 years ago. It's
a fad. It'll never catch on.
But I suspect you're right. The current country audience will probably do
the same thing you did and move on to something else. But guess what?
There are a whole bunch of *new* kids coming up right behind them.
Every generation thinks it's the be-all and end-all to civilization.
They're the only ones who matter. When they go, civilization will die.
And that's exactly what they keep thinking until the day some 23 year old
kid walks in and proves he can do that 58 year old's job better, quicker,
and cheaper than he did it.
Country music isn't going to die. But it *will* evolve into something
else. It's not going to stay the same as it's been, and it's not going
back to the way it was. We won't know where it's going til it gets there.
And I can't wait til it does.
dx
> So rap is flying, and country is flying. We'll see how a lot of these rap
> artists do when it's time for their second albums to come out. They
> usually have one big album, and then the money and fame takes over and they
> find they can't repeat. Plus they do music that any one in their bathroom
> could make. Highly disposable. Short shelf life.
Care to cite any statistics (have an old copy of Billboard handy?) to
show that rap artists are more likely to fail on their second outing
than artists of other genre? More importantly - when will we be hearing
your hit rap record? If 'any one' can make a hit rap record in their
bathroom, isn't it about time to retire from your career as ... a lawyer?
A consultant? Whichever it is.
Anxiously awaiting CB's hit rap record,
-dx
--
---
"Come to think of it, there's not a restaurant meal I can think of that's not
made better through substitutions of some sort." -S. John
Country Boy
dx <d...@netcom.com> wrote in article <dxF0z8...@netcom.com>...
> Country Boy <UDL...@prodigy.com> wrote:
>
> > So rap is flying, and country is flying. We'll see how a lot of these
rap
> > artists do when it's time for their second albums to come out. They
> > usually have one big album, and then the money and fame takes over and
they
> > find they can't repeat. Plus they do music that any one in their
bathroom
> > could make. Highly disposable. Short shelf life.
>
> Care to cite any statistics (have an old copy of Billboard handy?) to
> show that rap artists are more likely to fail on their second outing
> than artists of other genre? More importantly - when will we be hearing
> your hit rap record? If 'any one' can make a hit rap record in their
> bathroom, isn't it about time to retire from your career as ... a lawyer?
> A consultant? Whichever it is.
>
> -dx
Obviously I'm neither, since I've been unable to convince you of anything.
Remember MC Hammer? Whatever happened to him? C&C Music Factory? I
wonder why there aren't more people blaming rap radio for the death of
their careers.
dx
> Remember MC Hammer? Whatever happened to him? C&C Music Factory? I
> wonder why there aren't more people blaming rap radio for the death of
> their careers.
Cool - you're now proving your universal claims (to wit, rap artists
can't repeat) with anecdotal examples. Didn't they clear this whole
existential/universal quantifier business up in Law 101?
What happened to any number of country artists who had flash-in-the-pan
fame, and didn't repeat? Why do you believe that rap is any more
susceptible to this than country? Simply because you can cite examples
of rap artists with short careers, and ignore those of other genres?
Not a very sophisticated argument.
And, again, if hit rap music is something 'anyone' can make 'in their
bathroom' - where's yours? Or would you simply like to leave that comment
to stand as an example of musical neanderthalism?
Still waiting for CB's bathroom tapes,
Country Boy
dx <d...@netcom.com> wrote in article <dxF0zJ...@netcom.com>...
> Cool - you're now proving your universal claims (to wit, rap artists
> can't repeat) with anecdotal examples. Didn't they clear this whole
> existential/universal quantifier business up in Law 101?
Where do you get this idea that I'm a lawyer? Or that I took any law
classes?
>
> What happened to any number of country artists who had flash-in-the-pan
> fame, and didn't repeat? Why do you believe that rap is any more
> susceptible to this than country? Simply because you can cite examples
> of rap artists with short careers, and ignore those of other genres?
> Not a very sophisticated argument.
I don't think that was the thrust of my original post. My post was
directed at a claim by "Stella" that rap music was growing, while country
was dying. I said that both can co-exist, and the rap audience hasn't been
taking fans away from country. Do you have a problem with my main
arguement? If not, let's drop it.
>
> And, again, if hit rap music is something 'anyone' can make 'in their
> bathroom' - where's yours? Or would you simply like to leave that
comment
> to stand as an example of musical neanderthalism?
>
> Still waiting for CB's bathroom tapes,
>
You wouldn't want to hear me sing. It's worse than The Beastie Boys.
> ---
Luvless
>
> I don't think that was the thrust of my original post. My post was
It is growing, just like the crime rate.
Coincidence? I think not.
-Luvless
Luvless
> And, again, if hit rap music is something 'anyone' can make 'in their
> bathroom' - where's yours? Or would you simply like to leave that comment
> to stand as an example of musical neanderthalism?
>
> Still waiting for CB's bathroom tapes,
>
> -dx
That would be "crap" music.
The "c" in "crap" is silent.
-Luvless
OerMyShldr
>I would hope that someone is hearing the older listeners like me, 34, I
>hate alot of what is called country today. MOST ALL the people I know my
>age an upward will not listen to the top 40 stations, in fact, many have
>stopped listening to the radio all together or found some alternative style.
>Ask someone over the age of 25 what they think!!
>
>
I used to listen to oldies stations and the soft pop stations til I got so
tired of it, I switched to just listening to the classical stations. I was well
on my way to becoming a *classical snob*. Then there was a lady whos office was
across from my desk, and she had her radio turned to CM stations. I used to
tell her to turn that twangy shit down! But slowly, I found myself listening to
it more and more. The first song that caught my attention was MCC's Down At The
Twist and Shout". Then, I ran across a Vince Gill video on CMT of "One More
Last Chance", so I started listening to CM stations just to hear those songs,
and found others that I liked.
I think that CM is an alternative for us *older* folks that don't have a music
suited to our changing tastes. We were used to listening to music where we
could understand the words to the songs. The new *pop* music sure as hell
wasn't doing anything for us, and you can only listen to oldies stations for so
long w/o getting bored real quick.
When I started listening to CM, I was excited about enjoying music again. But,
I am afraid it got old real fast....like in about 1 year. By that time, I had
found the 3 or 4 artists that I enjoyed and so eventually, I stopped listening
to radio completely, (except for the countdown shows on the weekends) and now
just listen to my own favorites.
To me, the country radio that I embraced a few years ago, is sounding more and
more like the pop radio that I rejected.
J
dx
> That would be "crap" music.
> The "c" in "crap" is silent.
Cool - double the musical illiteracy, double the fun.
Don Winland
to be said. Radio Managers don't want to hear it, and ease their conscience
by saying "They are in the minority" They have no idea of what the
working person thinks about them. In fact, they are alot like
politicians!!!! They can't hear criticism unless it's directed toward
someone else.
Jeff Levin wrote in message ...
a
>
>Country Boy <UDL...@prodigy.com> wrote:
>
>> So rap is flying, and country is flying. We'll see how a lot of
these rap artists do when it's time for their second albums to come
out. They usually have one big album, and then the money and fame
takes over and they find they can't repeat. Plus they do music that
any one in their bathroom could make. Highly disposable. Short shelf
life.
>
>Care to cite any statistics (have an old copy of Billboard handy?) to
show that rap artists are more likely to fail on their second outing
than artists of other genre? More importantly - when will we be
hearing your hit rap record? If 'any one' can make a hit rap record in
their bathroom, isn't it about time to retire from your career as ... a
lawyer? A consultant? Whichever it is.
Most rap artists don't fail on their second labels. If you believe
this, you're missing the the dynamics of rap. The biggest acts in rap,
such as Wu-Tang Clan and Fugees, are artist collectives. The artists in
these groups keep re-aligning, as groups and individuals, to promote
creativity and keep it interesting for fans.
For example, Fugees put out two albums as a group. Then Wyclef did a
smash album as an individual. Now Lauryn Hill has this year's hottest
non-soundtrack album as an individual.
Remember Ol Dirty Bastard, the Wu-Tang Clan artist who demanded to be
recognized at last year's Grammy's? He was just named by Rolling Stone
one of the 50 most influential rappers, as an individual.
The equation is simple. Rapper = artist. Country star = phony.
Stella
a
>And, again, if hit rap music is something 'anyone' can make 'in their
bathroom' - where's yours? Or would you simply like to leave that
comment to stand as an example of musical neanderthalism?
>
>Still waiting for CB's bathroom tapes,
The New York Times article on "Why Is Rap So Hot?" specifically
mentioned this as a major reason.
In so many words, the Times said: "Rap is hot because anyone can make
it in their bathrooms."
In other words, people are interested in participating in art. They buy
music that fuels their own artistic dreams or aspirations with examples
and ideas.
Millions of 14-year-old white boys are sitting in their bedrooms in the
suburbs listening to Big Punisher, because their dream is to be like
Big Punisher.
This is a very Warholian idea.
It's also shows profound social movement From Roy Rogers to Big
Punisher, in two generations.
Stella
Country Boy
a <guyg...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in article
<70d55e$g...@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>...
>
> The equation is simple. Rapper = artist. Country star = phony.
>
> Stella
>
Last week, you said that you were not an anti-country troll. But it's
clear that you're no different from those people who say "country sucks."
You challenge my comment that rap artists are one-trick ponies, yet you
generalize all country artists as phonies. I see very little difference
here. Country singers aren't phonies. They just have very little in
common with an anti-country troll who lives in New York. If they did, then
they'd truely be phonies.
Louise Kyme
>
> The equation is simple. Rapper = artist. Country star = phony.
>
Stella, that's just baloney! In every musical style there are people who do it
well and people that don't. I don't know anything about rap, but I'm sure
people that do like some and don't like others. Are you trying to say there
are no phoney rappers out there?
Now, surely your opinion isn't biased just because rap is primarily a black
form of music and country is white? No, it couldn't be, because if it were,
why would you be writing on a country newsgroup?
Louise
(country music IMO, is the one style of music that over the years has been too
often knocked by 'serious' music critics and never been really appreciated,
but will one day get it's due. The music too often (especially the old
hillbilly kind) is ignored by the politically correct brigade because of it
early racist slant, when really it should be studied as one of the most
interesting examples of American music. Rap can be more racist that country
ever was but no one would knock that would they? Oh no - how un-p.c. One day
Hank Snow, Red Foley, Hardrock Gunter, Johnny Horton, Pee Wee King, Bob Wills,
Lefty Frizell, Ernest Tubb and the like will get their dues, just not while
it's so unfashionable to be white. <sigh> )
--
If you like rocking country music, check out the Okeh Wranglers web site at:
Country Boy
a <guyg...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in article
<70d5j7$h...@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>...
> The New York Times article on "Why Is Rap So Hot?" specifically
> mentioned this as a major reason.
>
> In so many words, the Times said: "Rap is hot because anyone can make
> it in their bathrooms."
The problem with believing articles like this is it implies that what's hot
now will stay hot forever.
If anyone can make it, that makes it less likely that they'll spend money
on someone else's art. Others aren't saying or doing anything that I can't
do myself. So why spend money to support it? There's no motivation.
So 14 year old white boys sit in their bedrooms and do "mouth jive."
They'll use their computers to put their music out to the public. Supply
will outpace demand, as everyone realizes they could be a supplier. Once
that happens, the value of it diminishes. If everyone can paint like
Picasso, not only does his price drop, but his cache as an artist drops.
He's no better or different than anyone else, thus he's not an artist.
That's the problem with considering oneself an artist on the Internet.
When everyone has the same access to information, and the playing field is
leveled, the criteria that make someone an artist cease to be. Then a
person is no longer a artist. Their statements on the Internet or their
rap just becomes another bodily function.
Mckngbyrd
>common with an anti-country troll who lives in New York. If they did, then
>they'd truely be phonies.
Alright Already!!!!!
These flames are not being productive, and noone is going to win, so just deal.
As an avid country music fan, I admire country for its trueness of melody and
harmony, and I admire a business where an artist can sing other peoples songs
and still be considered an artist. Not every songwriter has the ability to be
a performer, and I am really happy that the CMA's honor the songwriters with
one of the biggest awards. (The Grammy's do it in song of the year, but it
still tends to be about the performer, not the writer.)
Yet in college I was the host of an R&B/rap show on the college's radio
station. The roots of most of what I played were in jazz and blues. I also
find it interesting that country artists and R&B artists tend to cover the same
songs, often at the same time on the charts. Rap can be as artistic and
creative as sosme of the best country music, and can be as awful as some of the
worst country music. There are many people who enjoy both.
People like different art, literature, theater, movies tv. That doesn't mean
that the people who like Shakespeare are any better than those who like Mamet.
I for one, have attended a Beastie Boys show and the Dixie Chicks in the same
week. I enjoyed both thoroughly, because they both enjoyed themselves
thoroughly.
Guys, get over yourselves. There is a lot of music out there. Enjoy what you
enjoy, and be done with it.
Twirl me about and Twirl me around
Let me get dizzy and fall to the ground....
--Mary Chapin Carpenter
a
(Mckngbyrd) writes:
>Guys, get over yourselves. There is a lot of music out there. Enjoy
what you enjoy, and be done with it.
If you're such an open-minded person, how can you make a statement like
that? There's lots more to music than just "enjoy and be done with it."
Criticism of music is as valid and important as criticism of movies and
drama.
Every Friday, our papers are full of movie reviews, many of which are
critical. I don't hear anybody saying "enjoy it or get over it" to
Siskel and Ebert. Fans have every right to evaluate and criticize the
music they hear.
This is particularly true of a genre that sells out its soul, like
Nashville Country. How can you applaud a genre that has an award for
songwriting of the year but gives it to a fraud like Skip Ewing, when
there are such great songs around as "The Hatfield Side" (Cheri
Knight), "Kinda Like California" (Kris Tyler), "Bring the Harvest Home"
(Chris Knight), "The Devil Got Hold of Me" (Gillian Welch) and "House
of Secrets" (Mike Ireland)?
I don't yet understand how Suzy felt about the attack against me at the
Bottom Line. But I got the impression she approved of it. How could
she? How dare she?
How could Suzy approve of an attack against my art when she herself has
made such provocative art?
We don't live in a world in which a privileged few have a right to make
art, while the masses only have a right to enjoy it or shut up. We all
have a right to consume and criticize art, and criticism itself can be
high-quality art.
Stella
James Mark Manheim
: As an avid country music fan, I admire country for its trueness of melody and
: harmony, and I admire a business where an artist can sing other peoples songs
: and still be considered an artist. Not every songwriter has the ability to be
: a performer, and I am really happy that the CMA's honor the songwriters with
: one of the biggest awards. (The Grammy's do it in song of the year, but it
: still tends to be about the performer, not the writer.)
: Yet in college I was the host of an R&B/rap show on the college's radio
: station. The roots of most of what I played were in jazz and blues. I also
: find it interesting that country artists and R&B artists tend to cover the same
: songs, often at the same time on the charts. Rap can be as artistic and
: creative as sosme of the best country music, and can be as awful as some of the
: worst country music. There are many people who enjoy both.
Thanks for making this point . . . country will always be first and
foremost with me, but in rap I see a whole new way of organizing musical
sound, a change in the ground rules as fundamental as the one that
produced the first operas four hundred years ago. Maybe country is a way
to understand the past, and rap a way to look into the future.
Tex
Country Boy
James Mark Manheim <jman...@umich.edu> wrote in article
<mFKW1.2594$fS.78...@news.itd.umich.edu>...
> Thanks for making this point . . . country will always be first and
> foremost with me, but in rap I see a whole new way of organizing musical
> sound, a change in the ground rules as fundamental as the one that
> produced the first operas four hundred years ago. Maybe country is a way
> to understand the past, and rap a way to look into the future.
>
> Tex
>
Tex,
Interesting post. I agree with the idea that rap is a new way of
organizing sound. I just don't think music is a componant. It's all
rhythm. African musics are based on rhythm. European musics are based in
melody. The two merge in jazz. American country music draws on Europe for
its roots. Country has taken in some of the African rhythmic influences,
most notably when the back beat was added in the 50s.
But in my opinion rap didn't change the ground rules, it just eliminated
one of the two basic elements of western music. I think both musics have
roots in the past, and offer ways to look at the future. Because both are
evolving, living artforms that are changing with every new innovation. The
new innovations just come slower in country.
Country Boy
a <guyg...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in article
<70fli4$g...@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>...
>
> I don't yet understand how Suzy felt about the attack against me at the
> Bottom Line. But I got the impression she approved of it. How could
> she? How dare she?
>
You're going off into hyperspace again. You're jumping to conclusions
before you know if your premise is true. Which means you're prejudging
again. It's a hard habit to break. Maybe you should join P.A.:
Prejudicers Anonymous. It worked for George Wallace. It could work for
you.
a
<UDL...@prodigy.com> writes:
>You're going off into hyperspace again. You're jumping to conclusions
>before you know if your premise is true. Which means you're
prejudging again. It's a hard habit to break. Maybe you should join
P.A.: Prejudicers Anonymous. It worked for George Wallace. It could
work for you.
This is true. There's some days when I think Suzy is great.
And there's other days when I just despise her because of the Bottom
Line fiasco against me and my family.
However, on all days, I think she's a talented artist and musician with
lots of courage.
Stella
James Mark Manheim
: James Mark Manheim <jman...@umich.edu> wrote in article
: <mFKW1.2594$fS.78...@news.itd.umich.edu>...
: Tex,
This may reach a point where it should be taken to another newsgroup, but
to me the great innovation of rap is not the rhythms (which mostly were
around in the P-Funk style already) but the fact the the DJs use
preexisting music as their raw material.
And as for country's place on the innovation spectrum, I think its real
value lies exactly in its rearguard position. That is, its innovations
are attempts to catch up with the pop mainstream and yet stay true to
itself. That's why both the extreme traditionalists and the people coming
in from pop both tend to distort what's best about the music, and meet
with only temporary success. What country does is take the musical
innovations coming out of culture centers and fit them to the lives of
ordinary people.
Tex