Knick Knack party
Brad Sondahl
line like, "Our cow didn't give milk, so we had to sell him," anyway he
says, "I thought this was a knick knack party."
So I wondered about the origins of knick Knack, particularly related to
the kids song, This old Man, which I thought I'd do for the preschoolers
at the library where I've just secured a longtime gig called children's
librarian at.
So is knick knack another term for "play party"
There is also of course the term used as fancy item, or bric-a-brac, I
think... Leads one to sing, knick knack, bric-a-brac, ...
Brad Sondahl
--
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To respond directly, don't forget to take out the "garbage"
carlbaron
> So I wondered about the origins of knick Knack,
I have a book, from my Dad, "Dictionary of Work Origins" by Joseph T.
Shipley. The Philosophical Library, 1945. The entry for "knick-knack"
covers a full page (2 columns, at 8 or 9 point). After I read it, I'll
scan it, and post it what it says.
Carl
carlbaron
> Brad Sondahl wrote:
>
>> So I wondered about the origins of knick Knack,
scan errors corrected.
Carl
knick-knack.
This reduplicated word (cp. scurry) is from knack. The word
imitates its meaning, the sound of a sharp short blow, a map. Then it
meant a trick a device, a toy then, the adroitness in performing the
trick. (Thus we say "That's a map 1") Knack is a member of a fertile
family. Many of the words in it are now obsolete but the kn--, gn--,
n--, initial sounds are found in words common in the Teuton tongues, and
linked with Latin and Greek back to far off Aryan sources, meaning
biting, breaking, or swelling (a protuberance, a knuckle to knock with,
a head). Interlocked are the ideas of to eat and to know: ME. gnawcn, to
gnaw; AS. cnawan, to know; L. gnoscere, to know,whence Eng. cognition;
ignorant; Gr. gignoskein, to know; Sansk. jna, to know. The idea of
absorbing is common to both food and knowledge. Thus L. rumen, the first
stomach of a cud-chewing animal, gives us both ruminant chewing cud, and
ruminate, to think over Shakespeare says "Chew upon this" ( Julius
Caesar, I,ii,171 ) meaning ponder. To digest, q.v., has the sarne double
use and since digestion absorbs only the good, a digest gives us (to
continue the food figure) the meat of an item, leaving the shell. Cp.
strike.
Some idea of this complex family of words may be gathered from the
listing that follows. Knab is an old spelling of nab, knabble, an early
form of nibble. Knag is a protuberant knot in wood. Knap (AS. cnaep), a
mound; also, (Du. knappen), to break short· to bite off; whence
knapsack, q.v. Knar is a knot (of wood) whence knarled, now more
commonly gnarled--though gnarl is a diminutive of gnar, earlier knarre,
knar. The gn--and the sn-- words are akin: early knaw became gnaw (Gr.
gnathos, jaw): gnash; Dan. knaske, to grind the teeth; snap, snip,
snarl, snatch, snob, sunb), Perhaps it is the influence of the kn--
sound that changed knave, which first meant just boy, to the sense of
rascal, as in knavery. Knight was spared the same fate by becoming a
term in history; the G. form, Knecht, has come to mean menial. Knicker,
a boy's marble, is from D. knikken, to knock--which itself (AS. cnucian)
is an imitative word, like most of these. See knickers. For knit, knot,
and knout, see knot. Knob is a later form of knop still earlier knoppe,
a bud, its form knosp (Gr. knospe, bud) is used as a term in
architecture. Knoll (AS. cnoll) via Welsh cnol is a diminutive of Gael.
cnoc, mound. Knub is a variant of knob, a bump as a verb this meant to
strike with the knuckles; and knuckle is a later forrn of knockel, with
which we knock. Knur, also nur, is a knot or lump) in wood and knurl is
wood knotted in the grain; to nurl is to give a fluted edge, as to a
coin. Knickknack itself is also spelled nick nack.
The forms without the initial k are as common. Nab is of two
sources: Ice. nabbi, a knob; and Dan. nappe, to catch. The second of
these gives us kidnap; cp.. kid. From ME. nap, a protuberance, comes the
nape of the neck. (There are also nap, from AS. hnappian, to slumber;
nap, from AS.hnoppa, the. nap of cloth; and nap, a card game, short for
Napoleon.) AS. neb, beak cognate with snap, gives us the nib of a pen.
Nib also meant to take a small bite; its frequentative is nibble.
(Snap, and snip, as related to nip, earlier knip, to pinch, to bite,
remihd us that s--is often prefixed as an intensive: splash from plash;
smash from mash; squash from quash, scrunch from crunch; scratch is
paralleled by G. kratsen and Fr. gratter; whence Eng. grate. Mrs. Gamp,
in Dickens' Martin Chuzzlewit, says scroud for crowd.) Knip, later nip
pinch, has the frequentative nipple. Also nob, to strike and nob, the
head; nobble, to stun--though slang nob, whence nobby, is short for
nobleman; and nod (OHG. hnoton, to shake) also slang noddle, the head,
corrupted to noodle.
Nick (Du. knik, a nod) as in the nick of time also (G. knicken
ODu. nocke) a slight cut, a notch, also a nock. Nock was first the horn
end of a long bow then the notch for the arrow (L. nux, nuc--, nut, was
used with the same meaning). Nick is also an abbreviation of the devil,
the Old Nick contrariwise St. Nick (Nikolaus) is Santa Claus, patron of
travelers. See nickel. Niche, the (originally shell-shaped) recess in a
wall, is from It. nicchia, perhaps from LL. nidiculare to nestle, from
nidicare, to nest, from nidus, nest--but most probably from It. nicchio,
shell, shellfish, from L. mytilus mussel. Notch was earlier otch,
perhaps by joining of the article, an + otch, whence a notch. Cp.
auction. It is probably softened from nock; but also suggested is Fr.
osche, from oschier, to cut, from L. absecare, to cut away from L. ab,
away, + secare, the present participle of which gives us secant. What we
gnaw, we cannot ignore; we are what we eat. Which indeed is food for
thought.
Malcolm Vidrine
I never thought much about the connection to This Old Man, but it is
defiantly geared toward children. Yazoo even issued the song on one of their
children compilations - The Story the Crow Told Me (which are great
compilations for adults as well!).
Malcolm
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"Brad Sondahl" <bradg...@sondahl.com> wrote in message
news:vnsTj.647$JF1.478@trndny06...
Joel
wrote:
> I never thought much about the connection to This Old Man,
> but it is defiantly geared toward children.
Who were they defying?
Brad Sondahl
Thanks for the interesting info. I never thought about all the kn words
before.
Brad
porc...@aol.com
Lyle Lofgren
> Knick Knack Partyhttp://www.jstor.org/pss/3087880
Shoot! It says I'm not authorized to read the article. Won't somebody
please tell me what "Nick Nack Party" really means? Was it a
forerunner of a Tupperware party?
The NLCR learned "Nick Nack Song" from the Ridgel's Fountain Citians's
recording of the same name (Vo 5455, recorded 4/1930), and it's very
similar to the song Chubby Parker sang ("Nickety Nackety Now Now
Now") for Gennett on 2/26/1927. The title obviously comes from the
refrain line, "nickety nackety now now now," which I assume is
meaningless, in the tradition of such refrains. The Fountain Citians
commentary is mostly extraneous to the meaning of the song about an
eccentric spouse (although the Ramblers added the line about having to
sell the cow). What I wonder about is the reason for the reference to
"The Fatal Wedding," other than free-association during the song.
Whatever a Nick Nack Party is, it's better than a Fatal Wedding (to
find out about that song, see http://www.csufresno.edu/folklore/ballads/R766.html).
Since that song was already popular (recorded by Dalhart, after all),
maybe the Ridgels were planning on recording it, too, and were
plugging a record that was never made? That's conjecture, of course,
unless somebody has more accurate information, in which case it's
either a highly perceptive observation or else a stupid guess.
I think I'll go churn some butter in an old boot. See ya later.
Lyle
Lyle Lofgren
Funny about short degrees of separation. My father-in-law, Harold
Shulman (1893-1980) was a classmate of Joseph Shipley at CCNY, class
of 1912. Shipley, known to his classmates as "Bud," died 1988 at age
94. He was a drama critic in New York for 60 years, and, according to
his obit, wrote 27 books, including this one. Unfortunately, I never
met him, but I've read the many letters he sent to my father-in-law,
in a personal style that's very different from the one he uses in his
books on the English language.
Did I mention before that I'm only 5 degrees of separation away from
Hilary Clinton? In their last years, my mother- and father-in-law
lived in Columbia, Maryland, and, when visiting, we became acquainted
with their neighbor, Patrick Hagen. Hagen ran (or runs?) a couple of
hair salons in Baltimore & Columbia, and one of his clients was Linda
Tripp (until he kicked her out for abusing the help). In turn, Linda
knew Monica Lewinsky ...
Lyle
Peter Feldmann
<lylel...@visi.com> wrote:
>
>The NLCR learned "Nick Nack Song" from the Ridgel's Fountain Citians's
>recording of the same name (Vo 5455, recorded 4/1930), and it's very
>similar to the song Chubby Parker sang ("Nickety Nackety Now Now
>Now") for Gennett on 2/26/1927. The title obviously comes from the
>refrain line, "nickety nackety now now now," which I assume is
>meaningless, in the tradition of such refrains.
Hi Lyle,
Nothing is meaningless.
A Knacker is the guy who bumps off the old cow with a rap on the head.
Still done today, but they use a compressed airgun, viz "No Country
For Old Men", Coen bros.
-Peter
===================
http://www.BlueGrassWest.com
Bud
> On Tue, 6 May 2008 09:45:23 -0700 (PDT), Lyle Lofgren
>
There's a version of the song with a peppier beat (still in 6/8 time)
sung by Pete Seeger. The NLCR singer was his brother Mike.
Furthermore, there was another recording by their three sisters,
Barbara, Penny, & Peggy. The song is sung by a classroom of children
in Alfred Hitchcock's The Birds while, unbeknown to them, the crows
are massing for another attack. Maybe the crows didn't like the song.
Bud
Bud
>
"Nothing is meaningless," Peter?
Haven't you been paying attention to the political speeches of that
guy and that woman?
Bud
Peter Feldmann
<Ducde...@netzero.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> ===================http://www.BlueGrassWest.com
>
>"Nothing is meaningless," Peter?
>Haven't you been paying attention to the political speeches of that
>guy and that woman?
>
>Bud
Bud,
haven't been paying attention 'cause I'm out of spare change.
Have I missed anything?
-Peter
===================
http://www.BlueGrassWest.com