Wall Street Journal on Clifftop and politics

[Dan T]

The usual contemptuous reporting from the WSJ. With an irrelevant and
untrue premise: that all Clifftoppers are liberals. Only a WSJ reporter
could come to Clifftop and completely miss the point, and fail to be
blown away.

MUSIC

At Clifftop, Their Music Is Conservative
But Their Politics Sure Aren't
By DAVE SHIFLETT
August 18, 2005;The Wall Street Journal, Page D8
Clifftop, W.Va.
A visitor finds great diversity at this Mecca of "old-time" music
festivals: platoons of fiddlers, guitarists, banjo players and
mandolinists; vendors of instruments, compact discs, massages, tacos,
pottery and tie-dyed clothing; aging boomers swaddled in tie-dyes with
beards a yard long and hair to match; and even, encountered during an
early morning walk, a dead man lying beside the road, perhaps none too
grateful to be there.
What one could not find at this early August event, formally known as
the Appalachian String Band Music Competition but usually simply called
Clifftop, was any outward sign that America has two major political
parties. The proverbial fiddler from Mars would easily conclude that
John Kerry won the last election by acclamation and that some evil
creature named Bush should be under lock and key for
election-tampering.
All of which is fairly interesting, considering that old time, one of
the nation's oldest forms of folk music, germinated in the deepest,
darkest hollows of red-state America.
"You definitely won't see a Bush sticker here," said Charlie Stagmer,
an engineer with CSX Railroad who has been playing old-time fiddle for
about 30 years. "We're the caring people, the compassionate people."
Mr. Stagmer, whose flowing white hair and beard suggest Moses after the
famed encounter with the burning bush, was clearly pleased not to be
rubbing shoulders with professing Republicans.
"There's an old saying about old-time musicians," agreed Donald Zepp,
owner of Zepp Country Music in Wendell, N.C., and a Clifftop vendor.
"They live around universities, drive Volvos and vote Democratic,"
which is in marked contrast to players of bluegrass, a musical cousin,
who "live in rural areas and small towns, drive pickups, grow tobacco
and vote GOP."
Clifftop is the undisputed premier festival of old-time music,
attracting people from 40 of the 50 states and several foreign
countries. Mr. Zepp muses that if a bomb went off at the hosting Camp
Washington-Carver, which is run by West Virginia's department of
culture and history, "you'd probably kill 80% of the old-time players
in the world." This year Clifftop attracted about 4,000 people, says
Randy McClain, site manager at the camp.
Karl Rove was not among them.
What exactly is old time, and why its distinct political coloration?
Gail Gillespie, who edits the Old Time Herald magazine (circulation:
2,000), calls it "homegrown music and dance" that is not about star
instrumentalists trying to "outperform" fellow players. It has "not
been claimed by the mass culture" and practitioners enjoy its communal,
"connecting" nature, she added. In "Camp U-Tarpia," where 25 Canadians
spent most of a week, one player said Vietnam draft dodgers were
instrumental in bringing the music north.
Ms. Gillespie agreed that left-wing politics are prevalent, though she
knows of a few old-time players who vote Republican. Indeed, Clifftop
came into its own about 17 years ago, after the longstanding old-time
festival in Galax, Va., began picking on long-hairs. "There were animal
stalls the hippies usually stayed in," and when organizers razed them,
she said, that sent a message. "We wanted a festival that was
comfortable and welcoming. We are the anti-Galax."
"Old time is the counterculture version of Appalachian mountain music,"
agreed Jim Skelding, who served as country star Martina McBride's
fiddler for four years and now plays with several Virginia-based
bluegrass bands. He doesn't mean that as a compliment.
Mr. Skelding is the mirror opposite of Mr. Stagmer: close-cropped,
deeply Republican, and bored stiff by old-time music, whose
practitioners may be politically progressive, he said, though "they are
more conservative in their musical approach than any other musicians,
playing only old period tunes where the fiddle plays very structured
repetitive solos that offer no creative space to the supporting
instruments." Mr. Skelding, who would no more join an old-time jam than
the Howard Dean Fan Club, also dismissed the sartorial disposition of
old timers, calling their omnipresent sandals "Jerusalem cruisers."
All of which is music to the ears of the old timers. "We're
pre-bluegrass," boasts Mr. Stagmer, and many songs popular with jammers
definitely reflect a pre-modern sensibility, including "Squirrel Heads
and Gravy" and "Nail the Catfish to the Tree."
Old timers also claim the high ground in the family-friendly
competition. Mr. Stagmer asserts that there is much less smoking at
old-time festivals, while Ms. Gillespie says that "Galax got to the
point where you couldn't let your kids go to the Porta-potties by
themselves," citing alcohol-fueled fights as a chief concern. Other
ambiance differences: no Confederate flags at Clifftop, save on the
hats of a couple of trash haulers. Nor is there a noticeable police
presence, while officers at Galax patrol through the night.
"Clifftop has probably the most self-policed crowd I've seen at a music
festival," said Mr. McClain. Indeed, Mr. Zepp left his entire banjo
inventory out overnight, protected only by a thin tarp. Couldn't
someone easily drive off with all your stock? "I guess I have more
faith in the human race," he said, adding that word would get back to
him if stolen instruments started popping up at jam sessions. "They are
easily traced."
No festival is without drawbacks -- rain, heat, marauding insects, and
the occasional corpse along a roadside. Death is a downer, to be sure,
though "if you've got to go," noted camper Joseph "Joebass" DeJarnette,
who plays bass for the Brooklyn-based "oldternative" band the Wiyos,
"this is a pretty good place to do it."
Life goes on, sometimes in circles. Several hours after the body was
hauled away, 40 or so festivarians gathered around an instructor to
learn a "flatfoot" dance step that included dragging one foot across
the plywood floor. As a small band played "Round Town Girls," the
students clumped clumsily at first, yet after a minute found their
groove. When they dragged their feet in unison they created a sound
reminiscent of a giant animal taking a deep breath.
It was a magic moment -- flatfooting past the graveyard, as it were,
taking the mind far away from fallen boomers and the ineffable sadness
of life.

Mr. Shiflett is the author of "Exodus: Why Americans Are Fleeing
Liberal Churches for Conservative Christianity."

[Library Guy]

This is truly disgusting. Not only does this moron turn a purely
friendship and music oriented event into a political tool, he goes on
to implicitly ridicule the music itself. And besmirches the memory of
a departed friend of the music by turning his death into a joke. Then
he takes statements from respected and knowledgeable old-time music
spokespeople out of context to make them look like dupes of the
political left. This country is in big trouble. Duh.

LG

[SquirrellyDave]

here's this Skelding guy: http://www.slackfamily.com/band.html

"offer no creative space to the supporting instruments."

???? what the fuck does THAT mean????

[gai...@mindspring.com]

Thanks for posting this, Dan. I heard about it this morning when I
received a copy of it forwarded through the new river old-time list
serve. Whew! Being misquoted & quoted out of context are things you
sort of expect, but where this horrible, tasteless piece went beyond
the pale is in the way the writer played upon the sad fact that a poor
soul passed away at an old-time festival.

I will soon be composing a letter to send to the WSJ. If anyone else is
so moved, letters may be sent to the WSU letters column by email:
wsj....@wsj.cm or faxed to them at 212-416-2255 (Attn. Ned. Crabb)

Dan T wrote:
> The usual contemptuous reporting from the WSJ. With an irrelevant and
> untrue premise: that all Clifftoppers are liberals. Only a WSJ reporter
> could come to Clifftop and completely miss the point, and fail to be
> blown away.
>

> snippag of horrible article...

>
> At Clifftop, Their Music Is Conservative
> But Their Politics Sure Aren't
> By DAVE SHIFLETT

> A> Mr. Shiflett is the author of "Exodus: Why Americans Are Fleeing

[j_ns...@msn.com]

> "Old time is the counterculture version of Appalachian mountain music,"
> agreed Jim Skelding

Old-time music is a bunch of types of music that people in the U.S., of
all political beliefs, liked a long time ago, and it includes old
Appalachian mountain music just as surely as it includes old
non-Appalachian non-mountain music.

People who bought old-time music on record during the original '20s
old-time music fad probably skewed politically conservative. Dislike of
modern music such as jazz was associated with interest in buying
old-time music instead. Pre-Jimmie-Rodgers, at least, buyers probably
skewed old, because if you're going to get excited about old familiar
music it helps to be old enough to have familiarity with it, and
skewing old in practice probably meant skewing conservative.

Many people who were middle-aged or older and were still excited about
playing old-time music rather than more commercial/more modern music
during the '50s-'60s were politically conservative.

Many people who have their act together enough today to understand
there ever was "old-time music," as distinct from say bluegrass, are
curious types. Many curious types in practice are academic types. And
many academic types in practice vote liberal. Meanwhile, old-time music
itself isn't a political version of anything.

"they are
> more conservative in their musical approach than any other musicians"

More conservative than classical musicians, for instance?

Good old-time musicians keep the sounds true to the wide variety of
old-fashioned sounds because that's necessarily the whole idea, if you
actually like that kind of music. Fiddle playing _is_ more repetitive
in old-time than in bluegrass. Jazz had a big influence on country
music generally during the period bluegrass was coming together. Either
you like old-time music as it was, repetition of beautiful melodies
with subtle changes and all, or you don't, fine. Nothing to do one way
or the other with (yawn) politics.

The WSJ writer obviously isn't interested in music.

Joseph Scott

[The San Agustin Kid]

As partisan in his musical tastes as in his politics, Shiflett appears
to have arrived at Clifftop with an ax to grind about traditional
musicians. Of course, being a Republican city feller he can't help but
throw in the fashion critique of old-time sandal wearing.

But as one can find out from the internet, Shiflett (DShifl at aol.com)
is also an alleged musician himself (a singer-songwriter, wouldn't you
know!! They really ought to screen those people at the gate!), part of
a band with Joebass(-hole) called, cleverly enough, Floor Creak. You
can go hear their very lame, hodgepodge "musical" effort at
www.cdbaby.com/cd/floorcreak. "Watered-down bluegrass" would be a
compliment to their style.

Of course, WSJ journalistic standards, being in the toilet as they
always are, Shiflett would never reveal his connection to one of his
story's "sources," Joebass. Good money says he made up more than Gail's
misquotes in the story. Skelding also appears to be a friend of
Shiflett as per Joebass's weblog.

I did see a few scowling strangers at Clifftop this year. Had I known
there were WJS types afoot at Clifftop I would have been a lot more
concerned about my kids' safety.

- The San Agustin Kid

[SquirrellyDave]

man, there's a lot of bullshit flyin around out there these days.....

[pvc]

The ineffable sadness of trying to sound witty, hip and hepped,even-
while strolling festival grounds high on many original words...
many...too many...spinning on "spin" and desparate to justify being
worthy of the company trip to the hills in search of America.
The pained strain of reporters like this one is more pathetic than
an ape trying to make sense out of a string of pearls. He must have
agonized for days praying before a miniature statue of Adam Smith in
his hotel room before committing to a more potent novena to all the
Muses, Jerry Rubin, Mort Sahl, and Joe McCarthy. What we get to read
is more like the Chronicles Of Joe Besser. He knows as much about his
subject as Stinky knew about Mr. Bacciagalupe's bakery operation.

Overcome with sorrow while he was proofreading, feeling the lump in
his throat gather up weight, he steeled himself before submitting
this to his boss by adding the finishing touches: goof on some dead
guy and dress the observation with some flowers afterward.
Says Perry White- "Olson, you Idiot!".

But I am going to be nice to him anyway at his next job, next year,
when I pull up to the pump at the WSJ Gas Station. Nice, for I bet he
knows every Carpenters' song by heart. The real fuel for music
reporting...Ah, the Heartland. I'd tip him but it would only
go for more liquor.And I wonder if he speaks boomer-ese at all.
I might help him out for his great American novel which I am sure
is also in the works. At least he'll be out of the dumb-bubble
then.

pvc

[steve s]

I was unaware that somebody passed away at Clifftop this year. My
condolences to his friends and family. If he was a devotee of old-time
music he was a friend of mine. As for this Wall Street Journal writer, he is
no friend of mine. But you have to admit, Kurt Vonnegut's belief that
everything reverts to high school once you grow up has a certain validity.
This article sounds like something that an acquaintance of mine from long
ago wrote for the "Fairview Warrior" making fun of the school orchestra and
connecting them to the amateur radio club.

I have found the Wall Street Journal useful as insulating material.

For what it is worth, my politics run toward anarchism.

Steve...
"Library Guy" <dal...@vet.upenn.edu> wrote in message
news:o07cg19hhlg26uk68...@4ax.com...
> This is truly disgusting.>
> LG

[tonyg]

This guy Shitlip sounds like Ann Coulter in drag. tonyg

[SquirrellyDave]

I thought I Ann Coulter WAS in drag!

[Tony]

Wait until he finds out how many of those disgusting old time music
perverts live in red states.

--
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com
home of The Camera-ist's Manifesto
The Improved Links Pages are at
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com/links/mlinks00.html
A sample chapter from "Haight-Ashbury" is at
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com/writ/hait/hatitl.html

"Dan T" <dand...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1124472430.9...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

[Dan Gellert]

In addition to his prejudice, abysmal lack of respect or taste and
generally shitty attitude, Mr. Shifflett shows complete ignorance of
the origins of the current oldtime music scene.

Sure it started among educated northeastern liberals, but in part it
was a reaction to the joining of traditional music to leftist politics
by the "folk revival" of the 1940's-60's. Art transcended politics.
People started recognizing and valuing an American heritage they shared
in common with others who were in other ways very different indeed.

Prejudices had to be overcome on all sides, and I like to believe that
the definition of "us" as Americans and as human beings was expanded in
the process for those involved. I guess the fact that I see that
expansion as a positive development automatically brands me a liberal,
relativist etc. to those who, like Shifflett, are hell-bent on
promoting a "culture war" in this country (not that there aren't those
on the left who are more than ready to sign up on their side of that
war, but you gotta admit it's the right that's out there beating the
drums).

Dan Gellert

[Greenberry Leonard]

> At Clifftop, Their Music Is Conservative
> But Their Politics Sure Aren't
> By DAVE SHIFLETT
> August 18, 2005;The Wall Street Journal, Page D8
> Clifftop, W.Va.
> A visitor finds great diversity at this Mecca of "old-time" music
> festivals: platoons of fiddlers

PLATOONS??? This guy must have war on the brain

> a dead man lying beside the road, perhaps none too
> grateful to be there.

That man was Dave Bing's in-law. This hack has the balls to observe a
random death and attempt to use it to badmouth the festival?

> What one could not find at this early August event, formally known as
> the Appalachian String Band Music Competition but usually simply called
> Clifftop, was any outward sign that America has two major political
> parties

Because it's about the music, asshole!

> "We're the caring people, the compassionate people."
> Mr. Stagmer, whose flowing white hair and beard suggest Moses after the
> famed encounter with the burning bush, was clearly pleased not to be
> rubbing shoulders with professing Republicans.

Who the hell does Shitlip think he is, a mind-reader? Nice of him to
take up the role of Stagmer's thought policeman.

> Clifftop is the undisputed premier festival of old-time music,
> attracting people from 40 of the 50 states and several foreign
> countries.

OHMAGAWD! How did this fact get mixed up in this massive missive of an
article?

> What exactly is old time, and why its distinct political coloration?

Better to ask, why this distinct distortion of the festival by
shoehorning a topic totally unrelated to the raison d'etre of Clifftop?

> No festival is without drawbacks -- rain, heat, marauding insects, and
> the occasional corpse along a roadside.

This guy's really milking the death, eh? Does he know Bob Moog just
died?- Bob lived here in Asheville and drove a brightly-painted
hippy-esque little foreign import. I'll bet Shitlip's next article will
equate synthesizers with communism.

> Mr. Shiflett is the author of "Exodus: Why Americans Are Fleeing
> Liberal Churches for Conservative Christianity."

Why am I not surprised?

[Greenberry Leonard]

After thinking about this article overnight, I've come to this
conclusion:

When the right-wing attack machine picks on:
John McCain
Paul O'Neill
Joe Wilson & wife
Max Cleland
John Kerry
Cindy Sheehan
etc.
etc.
etc.
I get moderately angry.

But when they take on Old-Time Music:
IT'S WAR!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Library Guy]

Greenberry Leonard wrote:

>...when they take on Old-Time Music:
>IT'S WAR!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pat Robertson would remind us, assassination is less costly.

Anon

[The San Agustin Kid]

I dunno. As thoroughly despicable as Shiflett is, his was merely a
fluff piece banged out for the low-brow money-changers of Wall Street.
I think any battle will have to wait until excrement like Shiflett
actually try to _do_ something about the "old-time question." And what
can a whiney little creep like Shiflett "do" besides belittle the
efforts and interests of others?

We can take some comfort from the observation that Shiflett is already
condemned to a musical hell of his own creation: his soulless band, a
creaky floor of schmaltzy pop-folk, as devoid of interest as stale
Wonder Bread.

-sak

[Dan T]

You ask what impact Shiflett can have.
Personally I am worried about this article getting back to WV state
officials.

Will Carter told me when he signed me up for the Friends of Clifftop
list that one reason he was forming the list was to mobilize
clifftop-goers to respond to issues. He didn't have any specific issues
in mind, because for the most part the festival organizers do things
the way most of us want. But one thing he had in mind was the potential
for intervention from higher levels of state bureaucracy.

The organizers and the park do a great job and know they have a good
thing going. But what if some mid-level state official (or worse, an
ambitious legislator) hears that there is wild hippy partying going on
and that 2 people have died in the last 2 years?

That's my concrete worry. Other than that, you're right, we should just
forget about this guy because he is inconsequential.

Someone pointed out to me last night that maybe it's a good thing that
he trashed old-time. It will serve to keep it protected from modern
commercialization.

[Greenberry Leonard]

In article <0qdmg1901c285g2ai...@4ax.com>, Library Guy
<dal...@vet.upenn.edu> wrote:

That's right! And he should know. He's a Fristian...oops...I mean
Christian.

[Tony]

I was tolded that them same northeastern libral godless unpatriotic commie
bas --- guys gotta holt o bluegrass in the 60s and danged if'n the bas --
folks didn't increase the audience fer it by about 60,000,000 precent.
I even hearded a roomer oncet that Bill Keith was a gol'dern yankee. Never
did believe it though. Same commie tried to tell me Fleck ain't a good ol
boy from Kentuck. Them lefties is always out there seditionizin.

--
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com
home of The Camera-ist's Manifesto
The Improved Links Pages are at
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com/links/mlinks00.html
A sample chapter from "Haight-Ashbury" is at
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com/writ/hait/hatitl.html

"Dan Gellert" <dgel...@skyenet.net> wrote in message
news:1124664339.3...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

[Bill Martin]

Old-time music has made me more patriotic.
President Newman fills me with wincing shame every time he opens his
mouth. Our leaders make me want to close the blinds and turn out the
lights. But, when I play old-time music, meet some of the real
oldtimers, listen to good fiddling and songs, dance to a breakneck
crooked tune; and when I move into and out of awarness of the long
traditions behind the tunes, and of the great historic movements that
chased American folk fiddling down this path and up that valley for
several hundred years; and when I hear the sounds of the immigrants in
the music and the repertoire; well, buddy, I just want to get Old
Glory out of the attic and wave it back and forth on the front porch.
Those are my people! That's my music! Aren't they cool?

Bill

[Greenberry Leonard]

In article <11honin...@corp.supernews.com>, Bill Martin
<n...@bubbaguitar.com> wrote:

> Old-time music has made me more patriotic.
> President Newman

President Newman? as in Alfred E? (YES, ME WORRY!)