Grad school in composition
Alex Temple
composition, and I'm looking for some leads.
Here's my deal: I do both notated and electronic/recorded music. I
love both scored ("classical") music (emphasis: 20th/21st century and
Beethoven) and rock (emphasis: indie and avant-garde). I'm very into
elaborate, motivically interlinked structures (think Bartók and
Schoenberg), but not particularly into precompositional systems (e.g.
50s High Modernism). I like drawing on a lot of different genres, both
"low" and "high." I tend to prefer music that's visceral but not
"easy."
So. Does reading this description make any of you think immediately of
a particular program?
Samuel Vriezen
Well, that's what you already have - but what are you looking for?
--
samuel
concerten.free.fr
http://composers21.com/compdocs/vriezens.htm
Lookingglass
"Alex Temple" <fibeREMO...@yaTHhoo.coISm> wrote in message
news:41350C57...@yaTHhoo.coISm...
Indecision Anonymous...?
Love,
Dave www.Shemakhan.com
Alex Temple
Primarily, teachers who are friendly towards what I'm doing, and who can
help me write better, more effective music through provocative criticism.
Alex Temple
That's what they said a century ago to composers who liked both Brahms and
Wagner.
Samuel Vriezen
Are there any contemporary composers, perhaps ones that teach, that you
find particularly intruiging or inspiring?
Dr.Matt
U of Michigan, U of Illinois, U of Indiana.
--
Matthew H. Fields http://personal.www.umich.edu/~fields
Music: Splendor in Sound
To be great, do things better and better. Don't wait for talent: no such thing.
Brights have a naturalistic world-view. http://www.the-brights.net/
BCMCC
Alex Temple wrote:
It's not so much of a program you should be looking for but a
person/teacher that is going to parallel the work you are doing. My grad
degree was disastrous because I went with the money (full scholarship) and
couldn't find anyone who was sympathetic to my work. I went through 6
teachers in 4 years (including my thesis advisor) and fought with each one
of them. It was neither fun or pretty. If you are lucky enough to find
someone doing what you want to do - go for him/her whether or not they are
in the country. Studying over seas could be a good thing.
BCMCC
Mark Steven Brooks
> composition, and I'm looking for some leads.
>
> Here's my deal: I do both notated and electronic/recorded music. I
> love both scored ("classical") music (emphasis: 20th/21st century and
> Beethoven) and rock (emphasis: indie and avant-garde). I'm very into
> elaborate, motivically interlinked structures (think Bartók and
> Schoenberg), but not particularly into precompositional systems (e.g.
> 50s High Modernism). I like drawing on a lot of different genres, both
> "low" and "high." I tend to prefer music that's visceral but not
> "easy."
>>>
Sounds like you know what you want. Why not skip academia and go out into the
real world and try to do it?
elat...@aol.com (Mark Steven Brooks/Elaterium Music)
Charlton Wilbur
BCMCC> It's not so much of a program you should be looking for but
BCMCC> a person/teacher that is going to parallel the work you are
BCMCC> doing. My grad degree was disastrous because I went with
BCMCC> the money (full scholarship) and couldn't find anyone who
BCMCC> was sympathetic to my work.
I cannot second this strongly enough, mainly because it describes my
experience just about perfectly. If I had known then what I know now,
I would have done several things very differently, including very
probably even going to a different school; as it was, in my naivete
and my ignorance of academic politics, I made a complete hash of
things. Having an advisor you like and trust, and actually form a
relationship with, is critical to the success of your graduate degree
and your musical career, insofar as your musical career depends on
your graduate degree and the connections you make in graduate school.
Charlton
--
cwilbur at chromatico dot net
cwilbur at mac dot com
Samuel Vriezen
And by extension, it may be a very good idea to, if possible, visit the
schools you may think of applying to and try to talk to teachers before
actually applying.
BCMCC
Samuel Vriezen wrote:
This may not be enough. I had one teacher who I played my work for, and
explained my reasons why I wrote the way I wrote and what I wanted to
accomplish. He agreed with me and I thought "Okay, now I am getting
somewhere." When the lessons started, he wanted to start me over from the
begining. It was the same song and dance all over again. If you are
really lucky, you will find someone who does what you do by listening to
what they produce. If they teach, go to them.
BCMCC
Alex Temple
> Alex Temple wrote:
>
> > Hi. I'm a senior music major at Yale, about to apply to grad school in
> > composition, and I'm looking for some leads.
> >
> > Here's my deal: I do both notated and electronic/recorded music. I
> > love both scored ("classical") music (emphasis: 20th/21st century and
> > Beethoven) and rock (emphasis: indie and avant-garde). I'm very into
> > elaborate, motivically interlinked structures (think Bartók and
> > Schoenberg), but not particularly into precompositional systems (e.g.
> > 50s High Modernism). I like drawing on a lot of different genres, both
> > "low" and "high." I tend to prefer music that's visceral but not
> > "easy."
> >
> > So. Does reading this description make any of you think immediately of
> > a particular program?
>
> It's not so much of a program you should be looking for but a
> person/teacher that is going to parallel the work you are doing.
So ... how exactly do I go about looking for such a teacher?
Alex Temple
I know what I want, but I could use more training on the realization end.
Alex Temple
>
> >
> > Primarily, teachers who are friendly towards what I'm doing, and who can
> > help me write better, more effective music through provocative criticism.
> >
>
> Are there any contemporary composers, perhaps ones that teach, that you
> find particularly intruiging or inspiring?
Well, that's tough. There are tons of recent pieces I love, but I haven't
found any living composers whose entire body of work I revere the way I do my
favorite composers from the first half of the century.
This may be simply lack of exposure, of course. I have a feeling that, as in
visual art, what I like best isn't necessarily what's getting the most
critical attention.
Samuel Vriezen
> Samuel Vriezen wrote:
>
>
>>>Primarily, teachers who are friendly towards what I'm doing, and who can
>>>help me write better, more effective music through provocative criticism.
>>>
>>
>>Are there any contemporary composers, perhaps ones that teach, that you
>>find particularly intruiging or inspiring?
>
>
> Well, that's tough. There are tons of recent pieces I love, but I haven't
> found any living composers whose entire body of work I revere the way I do my
> favorite composers from the first half of the century.
>
> This may be simply lack of exposure, of course.
Possibly, or a lack of interest in current issues. There's nothing wrong
with favorite composers being dead, but that's not what being a living
composer is about. You won't ever get brownie points for fighting
Schoenberg's aesthetic battles instead of your own. Surely there are for
you as well vital (and therefore contemporary) issues at stake in
composing? If you're indeed planning to be a composer of music that is
relevant, you just can't afford to ignore what's happening in the big
world. Note, BTW, that I think a retro-aesthetic might also be actual if
it's well thought out and argued.
> I have a feeling that, as in
> visual art, what I like best isn't necessarily what's getting the most
> critical attention.
Of course! That's why you *have* to look very, very hard!
Samuel Vriezen
So, you're looking for more counterpoint, analysis, harmony and
orchestration classes?
BCMCC
Alex Temple wrote:
Sadly, the most exact way of finding such a teacher is by going to each
college that they teach at, go to their music library and listen to tapes or
CDs of their work. Don't go by word of mouth, and don't go by a single work.
You need to hear a range of work to really know whether or not he/she is going
to be right for you. After hearing the work, you might try to meet with the
teacher to find out whether or not you can get along with the teacher
personally. Maybe you should even pony up money for a trial lesson. In
short, finding the right teacher is an expensive proposition, filled with
possible dead ends and wasted money. If you have the money to spend, do so.
You will save yourself years of heartache, and even more years of therapy.
These are things I never had the money to do that I wish I had.
BCMcC
Samuel Vriezen
> Sadly, the most exact way of finding such a teacher is by going to each
> college that they teach at, go to their music library and listen to tapes or
> CDs of their work. Don't go by word of mouth, and don't go by a single work.
> You need to hear a range of work to really know whether or not he/she is going
> to be right for you.
It's not only the work. It's a very good idea to read any texts he or
she might have written. Ferneyhough, for example, is often praised as a
teacher by people who have no affinity whatsoever with his aesthetic.
Dr.Matt
I abandoned one full scholarship midstream and went with another one,
for exactly this reason. In 1985 when I got to Stanford there was
nobody teaching composition at all, though the DMA in composition was
offered. The official faculty position was that anybody who wanted a
teacher didn't belong in graduate school--I kid you not! And the other
composer who was admitted that year was adamant that he didn't *want*
a teacher, he just wanted to do due dilligence at core musical
academics and get a sheepskin in order to advance his career as a
professor. I'd started the program at Stanford purely on its
reputation-- not a wise decision, but, in retrospect, inevitable
because at the time I had not a penny to my name and thought I could
skip airfare to interview my prospective future faculty, but instead
of coming out on top financially that way, I wound up spinning my
wheels for two years. Then I got down to business at Michigan, which
I'd visited through the Midwest Composers Symposium already--a mid-career
switch I've never regretted.
Alex Temple
> >>>
> >>Sounds like you know what you want. Why not skip academia and go out into the
> >>real world and try to do it?
> >
> >
> > I know what I want, but I could use more training on the realization end.
> >
>
> So, you're looking for more counterpoint, analysis, harmony and
> orchestration classes?
Orchestration maybe, but that's not really what I was talking about. Last year in
my private lessons, my teacher gave me a lot of really good advice along the lines
of "this passage seems disproportionately long," or "here the rhythms and textures
are so dense that the orchestra will probably not play it well," or "this piece is a
lot like others you've done; you should try something different," or "you should be
as free and varied in your scored music as you are in your electronic music." I
think my pieces wound up better as a result.
Samuel Vriezen
That's feedback. When I was in school, I found my fellow students for
that at least as important as my teachers. So that's another thing you
might consider, not so much to try to find a teacher whose tastes and
insights suit you, but to find a school where the atmosphere is helpful
and the students are good. This also, I think, matters more than being
at a school where they have some sort of official style that suits you
(you might in fact well learn buggerall in such a place).
Alex Temple
> Alex Temple wrote:
> > Samuel Vriezen wrote:
> >
> >
> >>>>Sounds like you know what you want. Why not skip academia and go out into the
> >>>>real world and try to do it?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>I know what I want, but I could use more training on the realization end.
> >>>
> >>
> >>So, you're looking for more counterpoint, analysis, harmony and
> >>orchestration classes?
> >
> >
> > Orchestration maybe, but that's not really what I was talking about. Last year in
> > my private lessons, my teacher gave me a lot of really good advice along the lines
> > of "this passage seems disproportionately long," or "here the rhythms and textures
> > are so dense that the orchestra will probably not play it well," or "this piece is a
> > lot like others you've done; you should try something different," or "you should be
> > as free and varied in your scored music as you are in your electronic music." I
> > think my pieces wound up better as a result.
>
> That's feedback. When I was in school, I found my fellow students for
> that at least as important as my teachers. So that's another thing you
> might consider, not so much to try to find a teacher whose tastes and
> insights suit you, but to find a school where the atmosphere is helpful
> and the students are good.
Oh, I definitely agree with that. Again, I don't know where to start looking yet.
> This also, I think, matters more than being
> at a school where they have some sort of official style that suits you
> (you might in fact well learn buggerall in such a place).
Yeah -- I definitely don't want to go someplace that's "cool" at the expense of being
rigorous.
Alex Temple
> Alex Temple wrote:
>
> > Samuel Vriezen wrote:
> >
> >
> >>>Primarily, teachers who are friendly towards what I'm doing, and who can
> >>>help me write better, more effective music through provocative criticism.
> >>>
> >>
> >>Are there any contemporary composers, perhaps ones that teach, that you
> >>find particularly intruiging or inspiring?
> >
> >
> > Well, that's tough. There are tons of recent pieces I love, but I haven't
> > found any living composers whose entire body of work I revere the way I do my
> > favorite composers from the first half of the century.
> >
> > This may be simply lack of exposure, of course.
>
> Possibly, or a lack of interest in current issues. There's nothing wrong
> with favorite composers being dead, but that's not what being a living
> composer is about. You won't ever get brownie points for fighting
> Schoenberg's aesthetic battles instead of your own. Surely there are for
> you as well vital (and therefore contemporary) issues at stake in
> composing? If you're indeed planning to be a composer of music that is
> relevant, you just can't afford to ignore what's happening in the big
> world. Note, BTW, that I think a retro-aesthetic might also be actual if
> it's well thought out and argued.
I am definitely interested in current issues -- just not so much how people are
solving them. The aesthetic issues that concern me most at the moment are:
- I object to the fact that people equate tonality with conservatism. I want to
use tonality, but I don't want to use it exclusively, and it bothers me that doing
so will get me pegged as a dissonance-phobe when in fact I love dissonance.
- Conversely, I object to the fact that people equate complex motivic
interconnections with High Modernism. I want to create such complex structures,
but not to the exclusion of rock and jazz influences, use of tonality or stylistic
incongruity. It bothers me that doing so will get me pegged as a modernist when
in fact I love so-called post-modernism.
- I think that the academic music world desperately needs to pay more attention to
the rock underground(s).
- I am very interested in the idea of awkwardness and perversity in music. I got
interested in atonality originally because it seemed perverse, like the notes were
always wrong, but they were the /right/ wrong notes. Now I'm tired of the total
chromatic and prefer to write the wrong wrong notes -- but the /right/ wrong wrong
notes.
- Basically, I really like CATCHINESS. I like tunes. They can be wide in range
and angular and unsingable, but basically I want music to be visercally
appealing. I object to the fact that when I say this, people think I'm talking
about being /accomodating/, which is something completely different.
I also don't consider myself "retro." There's an element in my music that's very
much influenced by the 20s-40s (Bartók, Stravinsky, Schoenberg, Messiaen), but I'm
also interested in drawing on elements of indie rock, late Romanticism, free jazz,
computer music, Beethoven, post-minimalism, noise, and so on. My
tendency is to assimilate everything I listen to and create motivic
interconnections between passages that draw on different styles.
Enough descriptions. Here's some of my music:
http://isomerica.net/~electricwalrus/music/
Chamber Concerto: Let Machines Be Light-Handed (2003) is a 17-minute piece for
chamber orchestra. Basic deal: spiky machine music, disembodied late Romantic
signifiers, a big oboe solo, very elaborate motivic interconnection.
Introduction (2004) is a synth/electronic piece for an album/ecording project I'm
working on. Basic deal: a long, mysterious synth line over Rhodes figuration.
Kind of an update on Mikrokosmos. It cuts off abruptly because it goes into the
next track on the CD.
Isabella the Colossus (2004) is a short, weird, blocky piano piece.
More Pockmark (2002-3) is from my last album/recording project. I wrote a
slightly jazzy electric guitar piece, recorded it, and then added electronic
effects.
Slightly Awkward People (2002-3) is for oboe, clarinet, electric guitar and
piano. It was written under the influence of the Quartet for the End of Time,
which shows, but I think I take the "awkwardness" thing much further, and you can
hear some rock and some neo-classicism in there too.
Triggerfish (2004) is a short piece for electric guitar and delay machine. You
could call it post-minimalist, maybe. It's less chromatic than a lot of my music.
NOTE: these are mostly undergrad performances, and they're not perfect.
I probably should've posted some of my music in the first place, rather than just
describing what I'm interested in.
> > I have a feeling that, as in
> > visual art, what I like best isn't necessarily what's getting the most
> > critical attention.
>
> Of course! That's why you *have* to look very, very hard!
If it helps, I think Stephen Hartke's "The King of the Sun," Lee Hyla's "We Speak
Etruscan," Crumb's "Apparition" and Reich's "Sextet" are all bloody excellent
pieces. Sciarrino's "Piano Trio #2" is pretty damn cool, too.