Surrealism?
bhene...@aol.com
In article <MPLANET.32ce4e9cdon't98...@news.vuw.ac.nz>,
don't...@email.me.or.else (Francois Delaborde) writes:
>The idea of composing an entirely surreal piece has appealed to me for
>quite some time...though there is one point thats been preventing me from
>completing my project.
>
>What makes one surreal work stand out from the rest?
>
>I'm asking this because, surrealism is essentially an expression of
>subconscious ideas..however, because of this, you can't really criticise
a
>surrealist work in any sort of rational/objective way...ie: its a
>subjective, completely personal work. So overall, whats the value of
>composing in that way? is it worth it?
>
>
Surely the value of composing in this way depends entirely on the results.
I don't believe any rational/objective criticism of any music (surreal or
otherwise) is anywhere near as important to the individual listener as
his/her own subjective reaction. (Notice I don't confine that to *initial*
reactions - everyone's free to change their mind over time.) Why should
one listener pay any attention to what other listeners think?
best wishes
Ben Heneghan
Frank Brickle
Francois Delaborde wrote:
> What makes one surreal work stand out from the rest?
Not to make light of your question, but: what makes any work stand out from
the rest? Hardly an objective issue. Vividness. Intensity.
> I'm asking this because, surrealism is essentially an expression of
> subconscious ideas..however, because of this, you can't really criticise a
> surrealist work in any sort of rational/objective way...ie: its a
> subjective, completely personal work. So overall, whats the value of
> composing in that way? is it worth it?
To my mind the best characterization is "dreamlike continuity." This means an
unusual take on expectation and "inevitability", surprising transitions and
juxtapositions, the absence of rhetoric and clear framing, objects and
patterns sometimes appearing and disappearing without explanation or
connection...
Why? For one thing, because it follows the contours of how people often
*experience* the world, rather than how they agree to *discuss* the world
among one another. It's exactly what I've been trying to do for a long time.
It seems most appropriate for intimate, reflective, and introspective music,
and not for public, celebratory music. The substance of a communication
between intimate friends, not of an address to an audience of strangers.
Dennis Bathory-Kitsz
Francois Delaborde wrote:
>
> The idea of composing an entirely surreal piece has appealed to me for
> quite some time...though there is one point thats been preventing me from
> completing my project.
Since I can't email you... (it bounced & only then I looked at your
clever header)...
You might like to have a look at this site:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Bathory/stonew.htm
This is a visual look at a surrealism piece that was commissioned from
me in 1977. Unfortunately, there is no audio or video document of this
work, only a few photos, the choreography and description.
Best,
Dennis
--
Dennis Báthory-Kitsz
Malted/Media: http://www.maltedmedia.com/
The Middle-Aged Hiker: http://www.maltedmedia.com/books/mah/
Kalvos & Damian's New Music Bazaar: http://www.maltedmedia.com/kalvos/
Francois Delaborde
The idea of composing an entirely surreal piece has appealed to me for
quite some time...though there is one point thats been preventing me from
completing my project.
What makes one surreal work stand out from the rest?
I'm asking this because, surrealism is essentially an expression of
dwsol...@aol.com
In article <tagutcow-040...@pa9dsp14.nr.infi.net>,
tagu...@nr.infi.net (Robert Caponi) writes:
>What would be an example of surreal music?
A few thoughts...
A pineapple singing to an ant in the key of aqua-marine?
A lecture sung by a turtle on mount Everest on the merits of ice-cubes?
Surely a surreal experience (or performance) might *include* music as part
of it, but can the music itself be described as surreal in itself? Is
any musical piece more or less "surreal" than any other?
Are you thinking merely of unexpected inappropriate noises in a piece?
They could also be amusing (like the policeman's whistle in Ibert's
Divertissement.) but would they be "surreal"?
Strictly, I suppose it would be possible to do a surreal performance using
the music of Bach to the accompaniment of various visual, olfactory and
auditory stimuli of an objectively inappropriate kind (I'm sure someone
has done it somewhere!) [What a nightmare!]
Of course it *may* be that certain pieces of music - written with a
surreal performance in mind - might not stand up on their own in a
concert hall because they would not make sense outside a surreal
performance. If this is the case, might it not be said that the music
concerned is not so much surreal as "bad"?
If they do stand up as music in their own right they are no more (and no
less) surreal than the classics..
To conclude, I think a surreal performance can include music, but the
music itself need not be surreal and *perhaps* it cannot be surreal in the
same way as a painting can be surreal.
A painting can be surreal because the observer expects something to be
depicted or even "represented" which may relate to his/her esperience and
this expectation is subtly or rudely "disappointed" or contradicted.
Music doesn't work in the same way, in my opinion, because the
expectations of a listener are less tangible. There are expectations, of
course, and these are set by the piece and by the context of pieces he/she
had heard before. But they are not set by physical experiences in the
same way as those of an art observer, they are on a more cerebral and less
tangible level.
I could go on - but I'm sure that's quite enough ....
David
http://members.aol.com/dwsolomons
(my music is not surreal - a performance of it could be....(Quel
cauchemare!)
Matthew H. Fields
Hmmm, seems to me Pierrot Lunaire comes pretty close to the
Surrealist aesthetic.
--
Matt Fields URL:http://www-personal.umich.edu/~fields
John Ladasky
Salvador Dali's writings on the surrealist aesthetic clearly state
that it is a movement "against music and in favor of sculpture." So, at
least one of the champions of surrealism thinks that music has nothing to
do with it.
I was always a little disappointed by this -- I always wanted to
compose "surreal" music. And I always felt, on an instinctive level, that
Dali was slighting my art. But maybe he is not. What is "real" music?
In order to define "surreal," we must first know what is "real." And since
music is an inherently abstract art form, maybe this distinction cannot be
made in music. However, with painting or sculpture, it is possible to dis-
tinguish between genres which endeavor to represent real objects as truly
as possible (representative art), those which distort and exaggerate real-
ity (surrealist art), and those which do not bear any resemblance to real-
ity (abstract art).
--
Unique ID : Ladasky, John Joseph Jr.
Title : BA Biochemistry, U.C. Berkeley, 1989 (Ph.D. perhaps 1998???)
Location : Stanford University, Dept. of Structural Biology, Fairchild D-105
Keywords : immunology, music, running, Green
Robert Caponi
Francois Delaborde wrote:
>
> The idea of composing an entirely surreal piece has appealed to me for
> quite some time...though there is one point thats been preventing me from
> completing my project.
What would be an example of surreal music?
--
T.W.I.D.N € http://www.infi.net/~tagutcow/
Chris Koenigsberg
I think one of the problems is the time base. A piece of
through-composed music proceeds on a fixed linear timeline, and this
would seem to contradict one of the basic qualities of the "dream
state" that surrealism tries to capture.
So you would perhaps have to arrange for repetitions, which would vary
in dreamlike ways, to truly apply a surrealist aesthetic to music (or
audio art/sound sculpture).
Thus perhaps Brian Eno's "ambient" pieces (like Music for Airports
etc.) are already what you're looking for.
Or then again, I think Morton Feldman is it!
--------------------
Chris Koenigsberg: c...@pobox.com
<URL: http://www.pobox.com/~ckk>
Boycott Internet Spam! <http://www.vix.com/spam/>
Joe McMahon
In article <tk681aw...@comet.scr.siemens.com>,
Chris Koenigsberg <c...@pobox.com> wrote:
>I think one of the problems is the time base. A piece of
>through-composed music proceeds on a fixed linear timeline, and this
>would seem to contradict one of the basic qualities of the "dream
>state" that surrealism tries to capture.
>
>So you would perhaps have to arrange for repetitions, which would vary
>in dreamlike ways, to truly apply a surrealist aesthetic to music (or
>audio art/sound sculpture).
>
a guiding concept to me. Stretch out that sample of someone talking
into basso dinosaur roaring. Think granular. Free associate. Pun.
>Thus perhaps Brian Eno's "ambient" pieces (like Music for Airports
>etc.) are already what you're looking for.
They strike me a dreamy, but not so dreamlike. Perhaps as a background to
provide that suspension-of-normal-time that sometimes occurs in dreams.
My vote for an excellent grounding in surrealism is to go out and find
a few recordings by the Firesign Theater.
"This movie has been rated X the Unknown. Positively no one admitted."
--- Joe M.
--
--++-- --++-- --++-- --++-- --++-- --++-- --++-- --++-- --++-- --++--
"Since when did you get all IRCAM on us?"
Frank Brickle
Chris Koenigsberg wrote:
> I think one of the problems is the time base...
> Thus perhaps Brian Eno's "ambient" pieces (like Music for Airports
> etc.) are already what you're looking for.
> Or then again, I think Morton Feldman is it!
Good choices for some kinds of dreams...
The mother of all surreal pieces in this sense is surely the _Concord
Sonata_. (His 2d Quartet does pretty well on this count, too.)
Nowadays the most frequent purveyor of nightmares might be Harrison
Birtwistle, maybe?
Chester Jankowski
The three tenors?
Robert Caponi
In article <32D145...@superlink.net>, Frank Brickle
<bri...@superlink.net> wrote:
** The mother of all surreal pieces in this sense is surely the _Concord
** Sonata_. (His 2d Quartet does pretty well on this count, too.)
**
** Nowadays the most frequent purveyor of nightmares might be Harrison
** Birtwistle, maybe?
Huh. Once I fell asleep listening to the Hafler Trio's "Mastery of Money."
Bad idea.
--
T.W.I.D.N € http://www.infi.net/~tagutcow/
Robert Caponi
In article <tk681aw...@comet.scr.siemens.com>, c...@pobox.com (Chris
Koenigsberg) wrote:
** So you would perhaps have to arrange for repetitions, which would vary
** in dreamlike ways, to truly apply a surrealist aesthetic to music (or
** audio art/sound sculpture).
a "dreamlike"ness is sometimes achieved by Schoenberg's "developing
variations", in which the "theme" is twisted around so it's barely
recognizable and seems only to be there in essence. I also hear similar
things in Le Marteau (which gives me the mental image of walking through a
low-visibility blizzard, only barely recognizing the outline of something
in the distance.)
One piece i might call "surreal" is Berio's Differences; only because it
juxtaposes an ensemble with a tape of some of the same instruments with
tape effects. At one time, you hear all the violins violently fluttering
up like a flock of geese... very weird until you realize it was the tape.
Maybe also some things like the Mont Le Young piece where an upright
piano is used as a battering ram, or perhaps some of the ONCE stuff.
--
T.W.I.D.N € http://www.infi.net/~tagutcow/
dd...@delphi.com
Some of the space opera type music, like 2001 is what surrealist type music
would be to me. I think it should try to be like music you would imagine from
another planet, sort of a strange, unheard or seldom heard quality to it.
Miroslaw jatczak
hello
simple listen :
Erik Satie (1866-1925)
exist a good record by Aldo ciccolini
(EMI Records)
:)
SULAIR Kiosk
> Francois Delaborde wrote:
>
> > What makes one surreal work stand out from the rest?
filmmaking
(especially Luis Bunuel's). One of the aspirations of surrealism
was to find the
"balance point" between any two dichotomies (dream/reality,
objective/subjective, etc.) I would consider Edgar Varese
surrealist myself and
have often thought of re-editing the film Andalusian Dog with
modern
avante-garde music. The pieces I was thinking of using were
Iannis Xenakis'
Pithoprakta, Krystof Penderecki's Capriccio for Violin and
Orchestra, Igor
Stravinsky's Rite of Spring and Edgar Varese's Ameriques, Arcana
and Ionisation.
On the historical side, Salvador Dali was dis-owned by the
surrealists long
ago, and only represents the most bargain-basement cliche version
of surrealism,
IMO. They nicknamed him "Avida Dollars", which is an anagram of
his name.
Bill Flavell (bfla...@hotmail.com)
Chris Koenigsberg
I presume you're talking about Ligeti's vocal piece "Atmospheres",
which was pirated, used totally without permission or credit (Ligeti
was just an obscure Hungarian in exile in West Germany so he couldn't
do much about it at the time), for the apes-at-the-monolith scene in
Kubrick's 2001?
By the way there's a great new book just released this month from MIT
Press, I forget the title but it's on the new book shelves at big
stores like Barnes & Noble, about HAL the computer and the legacy of
its depiction in the film, and where we've come since the film, as far
as the possibility of building a real HAL 9000, with essays by Arthur
Clarke and various contemporary computer scientists, including an
analysis of the actual complete chess game someone discovered recently
in historical records, a brief excerpt of the endgame of which is
played onscreen by HAL and the astronaut (and HAL actually makes a
mistake, when he explains the inevitable checkmate, by the way
:-). And my hero, philosopher-of-mind Daniel C. Dennett has the final
chapter, on whether HAL could technically, legally, ethically be found
"guilty" of the crime of first degree murder...
You mention the quality of "strange, unheard or seldom heard" as what
you would imagine about music from another planet.
What about the atonal and integral serialist, ultra-"modern" music
made by the leading composers on Earth, both acoustic and
Elektronische, circa the 1950's? Strange enough for you? Seldom heard
enough? (given recent arguments by certain insistent Usenet posters
who hate "it" all so much :-) :-) :-) I would think that music from
that period, mid-20th century, is perhaps the "strangest possible"
music that could ever be made, for a certain way of defining
'strangeness'.
Seriously, the "quality of strangeness" is something I am very
interested in pursuing and helping to further elaborate. A related
concept is "randomness", I seek out music that "sounds random" to me,
regardless of how well this jives with the four or five different
possible technical definitions of "randomness" including those from
mathematical proof theory, statistics and stochastic processes,
information theory, and Fourier analysis.....
Sometimes "the most random" music is indistinguishable from the "most
competely specified", as Boulez & friends were outraged to discover
when David Tudor went over to Donauschingen to premiere John Cage's
"Music of Changes" for them (when was that, 1955 or so?).
It's the median ground, the "golden mean", the right balance of
"harmony" and "strangeness", which makes for the most interesting
listening mix perhaps, because it maximizes the impact of "violation
of expectations" that have been built up through various musical
structures...
It is possible that the real music of real aliens from another planet
may not sound so completely "strange" as a lot of music already here
on Earth..... In fact maybe Yanni is an alien ;-) :-) :-)
Then you get all these artists (e.g. Jean-Michele Jarre) who depict
"outer space" by playing long long long tonal synthesizer pads, before
launching into rather conventional rock music... or Hawkwind which
uses slightly more menacing synth patches before launching into IT'S
slightly more menacing brand of conventional rock music...
I always found Roxy Music's first album, the eponymous one with
"Virginia Plain" on the American version (I think it was missing from
the British release because it was a big hit single first), to be one
of the spacey-est music albums in the history of rock music by the
way... when Bryan Ferry moans "We've been ruuuuuu-ning round, in our
preeeee-sent state, Hoping help would come from above, But even angels
dare, make the same mistake, In love....." with wailing Andy Mackay
oboe and Eno treatment madness of Ray Manzanera guitar in the
background.... now THAT's truly STRANGE :-)
Then there's the "literal space music" where composers take
astronomical data and make it into music.... I've heard that this is
becoming cliche, but since my wife's an astrophysicist I may get my
hands on some real data soon, from Hubble Space Telescope datasets,
and try to do something interesting and original with it.... rest
assured that if I do, it WON'T work as a New Age piece, won't be a
droning noodling background soundtrack for a Carl Sagan special (may
he RIP by the way)...
crjclark
Chris Koenigsberg wrote:
>
> Then there's the "literal space music" where composers take
> astronomical data and make it into music.... I've heard that this is
> becoming cliche, but since my wife's an astrophysicist I may get my
> hands on some real data soon, from Hubble Space Telescope datasets,
> and try to do something interesting and original with it.... rest
> assured that if I do, it WON'T work as a New Age piece, won't be a
> droning noodling background soundtrack for a Carl Sagan special (may
> he RIP by the way)...
>
>Yes. I have the NASA Voyager recordings on Laser Light label. Five
CDs of electromagnetic currents and radio waves from outer space
translated into audio signals. Very relaxing Music of the Spheres.
I recommend it highly. Some people hear no music in it. I can
hear plenty of music. A very subtle layer of major and minor
triads juxtaposed with slow repeating melodic phrases. I like
to put it on when reading science fiction or heavy philosophy.
There is a guy in Germany named Walter Bauer who has made
music with a Nuclear Magnetic Resonance Spectrometer.
If you want to hear atoms sing he has .wav samples on line
for downloading. He claims they are the purest tones in nature.
No overtones.
http://www.organik.uni-erlangen.de/research/NMR/music.html
Craig Clark
Chris Koenigsberg
crjclark <crjc...@Prodigy.Net> writes:
> >Yes. I have the NASA Voyager recordings on Laser Light label. Five
> CDs of electromagnetic currents and radio waves from outer space
> translated into audio signals. Very relaxing Music of the Spheres.
> I recommend it highly. Some people hear no music in it. I can
> hear plenty of music. A very subtle layer of major and minor
> triads juxtaposed with slow repeating melodic phrases. I like
> to put it on when reading science fiction or heavy philosophy.
"Very relaxing Music of the Spheres", sorry but this is the kind of
dull "Newage", that I'm NOT talking about.... I want to liberate those
"currents and waves from outer space", from the pathetic wishy-washy
tonal and melodic contexts they've been squished into, by those
Newage-producers out to make a quick buck from you who want it for
background music while you read sci-fi .....
I'm thinking more of "space music" along the lines of, say, "Star's
End" by David Bedford (for orchestra plus Mike Oldfield on bass
guitar), I don't think you'd be able to concentrate on reading a book
very well, with THAT playing :-)
I'm thinking of Barry Truax's early FM synthesis piece ("Arras" maybe?
I think it's on his "Pacific Rim" CD) which is composed of fairly
continuous currents and waves, but which is completely INHARMONIC, and
which gradually changes FM modulation indices, in ways that sort of
drone and pulsate, but which NEVER resemble "subtle layers of major
and minor triads juxtaposed with slow repeating melodic phrases".
I'm thinking of "ontological and epistemological music", where instead
of being mellow and peacefully reading philosophy along with it, you'd
have to "Experience philosophy" in real time ;-) unfortunately the
psychedelic drugs won't be included, bring your own :-) :-)
If you're familiar with some of my other music, you'll know what I
mean, people think their CD player is broken when it first comes
on... my piece which I find most peaceful and meditative and cosmic
and "embryonic" (like a soundtrack for an unborn fetus) of all my
music, "The Free Spirit", was described, by the subject of the piece's
dedication herself, as "like being stuck on an airplane, in the seat
next to the engine". She won't even listen to it, even though it uses
her voice. (a tragedy, though I'm still working on her :-)
crjclark
Chris Koenigsberg wrote:
> "Very relaxing Music of the Spheres", sorry but this is the kind of
> dull "Newage", that I'm NOT talking about.... I want to liberate those
> "currents and waves from outer space", from the pathetic wishy-washy
> tonal and melodic contexts they've been squished into, by those
> Newage-producers out to make a quick buck from you who want it for
> background music while you read sci-fi .....
I happen to like it. Voyager has left the solar system. It has
nothing to do with New Age music. I find a lot of New Age music
very boring myself. But I don't find Beethoven, Mozart, Bach,
Beatles, Pink Floyd and a host of others who used major and minor
triads with simple melodies *wishy-washy*.
> I'm thinking more of "space music" along the lines of, say, "Star's
> End" by David Bedford (for orchestra plus Mike Oldfield on bass
> guitar), I don't think you'd be able to concentrate on reading a book
> very well, with THAT playing :-)
Tubular Bells by Oldfield is one of my favorite pieces. I haven't heard
the Bedford piece. I myself can't always concentrate if there is music
playing, even with the Voyager tapes. I have to listen to the music.
> I'm thinking of Barry Truax's early FM synthesis piece ("Arras" maybe?
> I think it's on his "Pacific Rim" CD) which is composed of fairly
> continuous currents and waves, but which is completely INHARMONIC, and
> which gradually changes FM modulation indices, in ways that sort of
> drone and pulsate, but which NEVER resemble "subtle layers of major
> and minor triads juxtaposed with slow repeating melodic phrases".
Sounds like more atonal noise which I would definitely not be interested in.
> I'm thinking of "ontological and epistemological music", where instead
> of being mellow and peacefully reading philosophy along with it, you'd
> have to "Experience philosophy" in real time ;-) unfortunately the
> psychedelic drugs won't be included, bring your own :-) :-)
Whatever turns you on. But I prefer to let the music do it on its own.
There is no need for drugs if the music is good. The music can do it
all by itself.
> If you're familiar with some of my other music, you'll know what I
> mean, people think their CD player is broken when it first comes
> on... my piece which I find most peaceful and meditative and cosmic
> and "embryonic" (like a soundtrack for an unborn fetus) of all my
> music, "The Free Spirit", was described, by the subject of the piece's
> dedication herself, as "like being stuck on an airplane, in the seat
> next to the engine". She won't even listen to it, even though it uses
> her voice. (a tragedy, though I'm still working on her :-)
I'm not familiar with any of your music, but if you are another hotshot
jazz guitarist who plays as fast and atonally as he can, I can assure you
that I would despise you music. For I woudn't even call it music. I
would call it more *atonal noise*. LOL :-)
Craig Clark
dd...@delphi.com
He he, sounds like the old saying that there is nothing new under the sun.
Maybe the solution is to get out from under the sun?
You can get some hubble telescope data, and pics from my site at
Http://people.delphi.com/dd555
and use the link, heavens pictures.
Try the orion nebula photos! Fantasticly beautiful!
rick
Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
> This is a visual look at a surrealism piece that was commissioned from
> me in 1977. Unfortunately, there is no audio or video document of this
> work, only a few photos, the choreography and description.
*That's* *surreal*!! :(
R
shanan
Bill Flavell (SULAIR Kiosk) wrote:
> avante-garde music. The pieces I was thinking of using were
> Iannis Xenakis' Pithoprakta, Krystof Penderecki's Capriccio for
> Violin and Orchestra, Igor Stravinsky's Rite of Spring and Edgar
> Varese's Ameriques, Arcana and Ionisation.
>
for me electroacoustic artists such as Denis Smalley, Trevor Wishhart,
maybe even Douglas Lilburn seem to break the time thing down quite
well... real against imagined, the aftermath of a sound event taking
place _before_ the actual triggering sound, and no imaginable meter
my .2 credits
shanan
Tim Walters
In article <tkk9pp3...@comet.scr.siemens.com>, c...@pobox.com (Chris
Koenigsberg) wrote:
> I presume you're talking about Ligeti's vocal piece "Atmospheres",
> which was pirated, used totally without permission or credit (Ligeti
> was just an obscure Hungarian in exile in West Germany so he couldn't
> do much about it at the time), for the apes-at-the-monolith scene in
> Kubrick's 2001?
It was credited in the cut of the film that *I* saw, as well as on the
soundtrack album I remember seeing in the Seventies.
Maybe you're thinking of the original soundtrack, which Kubrick ditched in
favor of Ligeti, Strauss, etc. I can't remember the composer's name.
--
"Ever wonder what it sounds like *inside* that trash can icon on your
desktop? Tim Walters knows." -Jim Aiken, _Keyboard_
Tim Walters - core...@slip.net - http://www.slip.net/~coredump
Roy Barger
Which music program offers actual simulated(?) sound playback for
specific instruments? For example a chamber piece, that would play back
violin-like sound, cello like sound, etc.?
AND which sound card would be matched to that specific program?
I don't use keyboard in writing, I like the mouse, and like the program
Encore, but I don't think it simulates the instruments, just different
voices. Correct me if I'm wrong.
ANY help, recommendations, would be appreciated!
Thanks!!!
Please reply email: rba...@voy.net
D.G. Porter
Tim Walters wrote:
>
> In article <tkk9pp3...@comet.scr.siemens.com>, c...@pobox.com (Chris
> Koenigsberg) wrote:
>
> > which was pirated, used totally without permission or credit (Ligeti
> > was just an obscure Hungarian in exile in West Germany so he couldn't
> > do much about it at the time), for the apes-at-the-monolith scene in
> > Kubrick's 2001?
>
> soundtrack album I remember seeing in the Seventies.
>
> Maybe you're thinking of the original soundtrack, which Kubrick ditched in
> favor of Ligeti, Strauss, etc. I can't remember the composer's name.
>
> --
> "Ever wonder what it sounds like *inside* that trash can icon on your
> desktop? Tim Walters knows." -Jim Aiken, _Keyboard_
>
> Tim Walters - core...@slip.net - http://www.slip.net/~coredump
No, that wasn't "Atmospheres," it was the Kyrie from the Requiem.
"Atmospheres" is used in the star-gate sequence. "Lux Aeterna" is used
when the shuttle is traversing the mon on the way to the crater. And a
distorted version of "Aventures" (not only cut up & respliced, but sped
to 45 rpm & then slowed to 1/2-speed) is in the final room scene (this
piece was not giveninthe credits & Ligeti sued successfully over that
one). The film should get credit for introducing Ligeti's muisic to new
audeiones (this writer included).
DGP
Kai Quale
> Seriously, the "quality of strangeness" is something I am very
> interested in pursuing and helping to further elaborate. A related
> concept is "randomness", I seek out music that "sounds random" to me,
> regardless of how well this jives with the four or five different
> possible technical definitions of "randomness" including those from
> mathematical proof theory, statistics and stochastic processes,
> information theory, and Fourier analysis.....
>
> [...]
>
> It's the median ground, the "golden mean", the right balance of
> "harmony" and "strangeness", which makes for the most interesting
> listening mix perhaps, because it maximizes the impact of "violation
> of expectations" that have been built up through various musical
> structures...
Exactly. If it ONLY strange (e.g. purely random), there are no
expectations to break, and monotony sets in.
> [...]
>
> Then you get all these artists (e.g. Jean-Michele Jarre) who depict
> "outer space" by playing long long long tonal synthesizer pads, before
> launching into rather conventional rock music... or Hawkwind which
> uses slightly more menacing synth patches before launching into IT'S
> slightly more menacing brand of conventional rock music...
Or (Alan Parson? Vangelis?) with their synth-trumpets accompanying Carl
Sagan looking daringly into the unknown billions and billions of
galaxies...
I remember being very impressed hearing Jarre for the first time - I was 15.
It got tired real quick.
I find a quality of strangeness is often accomplished by breaking the
expectations of traditional major/minor modulations, e.g. Am Cm
(frequently used by Danny Elfman). Another "spacey" interval is the
tritone, but that was nearly ruined by over-use, by black-clad, whiney
Bowie impersonators in the late 70's.
kai
--
Kai Quale
USIT, University of Oslo
email: Kai....@usit.uio.no