WHAT IS MINT CONDITION?????
snailha...@sprint.ca
ok...this maybe up for a debate!!!!!!!!
while I don't have a goldmine handy...though i'm sure that's the
standard...what exactly is mint condition?
I mean......the highest, best possible quality in my eyes for any
record is SS still sealed....never played...is this also meant to be
mint condition????
after you play it once...it will go downhill....to say a mint
minus...and so on.....
I say this, because to me, in the world of collecting,whether it be
vinyl, coins etc, the term "mint condition" to me, is used too
loosely, one person mint, is another person's "scratched to hell"
again, I suppose, goldmine has set the standard, or some other source,
so please..people, enlighten me....i'm curious as to opinions on this
matter!!!!
scott s.
halifax, canada
Julian Woodell
I would put mint only if the record is in the condition that it left the factory.
Ie there should be NO damage. Realistically a mint record will be unplayed.
I do not use the description, preferring to use either "unplayed"
Or Still sealed.
Jules
snailha...@sprint.ca wrote in article <35214d84...@news.sprint.ca>...
VinylOnly
>.what exactly is mint condition?
>
>I mean......the highest, best possible quality in my eyes for any
>record is SS still sealed....never played...is this also meant to be
>mint condition????
>
>after you play it once...it will go downhill..
Howdy.........................
Yep........I do think it is time we re-visited this issue. I, along with
some other dealers, dont use it. PERIOD........... As Tim from
BackTrak Records has mentioned, even though a record
remains Still Sealed, one must be opened to determine its'
condition. Then you can say that it has never been played,
but that is all you can say.
Just by grading MINT means absolutely perfect. I have seen
advertisements that say, "Mint, almost perfect". Just what the
heck is that??? Mint says no imperfections, and if I were to
grade a record MINT, which I wont, my buyer may see some
slight variation that I missed.
Let's not even think of the MINT PLUS, the GEM MINT,
and the stupid BETTER THAN MINT grades. If you look
at Good Rockin' Tonight's MINT grade, you would read the
following, and I quote from their catalog. "Label has no major
imperfections". So, I guess a minor imperfection is OK for
their MINT grading. No thanks, my friend. That minor imperfection is NearMint
(Mint minus) in my book.
My advice to all sellers is to avoid MINT grading at all costs.
My advice to all buyers is to avoid sellers who advertise MINT.
***************************************************************************
FRED E. WALKER Collector / Dealer of "Vinyl Only"
***************************************************************************
Sbrecords
Hi! Snailha...@sprint.ca. You have a long screen name. This is my second
day at this place -after hearing about Newsgroups record posting for over two
and a half monthes - finally one record expert was kind to give me a step by
step direction. So, here I am, a 5:56 am and you know what - I seem to have
fallen right on your lap....amidst your MINT condition debate!!!!!
So you are Scott s. of halifax, canada. Well, nice to meet you. I am Susan b.
of geneva, Illinois.
You brought up a good question about "what exactly is mint condition?". Unlike
you, I do have a goldmine handy - but am too lazy to look it up. So I'll just
go by my personal experience and what comes to my mind.
Still Sealed LPs- on listing for auction sale purposes I've graded the covers
as low as VG+. The LPs were factory sealed - but they had corner cave ins,
creases, bent corners, writing impressions (like someone put a paper on top of
the sealed record and wrote on it and left invisible writing impressions on the
LP cover). And because of rough handling. some sealed lps had parts of the
seal broke (i'm talking few centimer here - not even an inch) and got oxidized
and turned brownish yellow where the seal broke -which looked ugly against the
rest of the snow white color on the sealed portion. And some sealed LPs never
made it to lists because somehow water seaped inside and the whole LP cover got
damaged with water wrinkles.
On 45s and 78s - they don't come sealed. So we'll talked UNPLAYED. Off a
stack of unplayed 45s and 78s with pressing oil still intact - and still in
original factory sleeves - very few come out with MINT grade, if any at all..
Depending on handling and storage, most come out VG+ to VG++; and perhaps a
handful of M-, after careful grading and screening them out under bright direct
light flashed at all different angle. Some record guys don't believe in MINT.
I don't blame them. I personally enjoy the challange of identifying a gem MINT
record - one that is virtually flawless perfect - even after triple grading
them under night time setting, day time setting background and scruitinizing it
for over ten minutes at a time.
For example, let's say just for debates sake that I had two unplayed copies of
The TRI-GERIANS on Marlo 1529 "Kingdom of Love/This is love" with a factory
crisp skyblue label with royal blue prints (which is a fairly light color and
can get ring wear/dirt prints easy with any handling) - if both upon carefull
grading come out as MINT - then, you shouldt be UNABLE to differentiate one
TRI-GERIANS record from the other TRI-GERIANS
record.
Before a record gets awarded with a distinguished MINT grade - they get
scrutinized by me in following and more manners:
1. First I play the record for overall sound quality and also to check to make
sure it's not OFF-CENTERED.
2.. Suspend the disk in mid-air to look for WARP. less then 1 mm warp gets
slight warp designation; 1 mm- 2 mm I play them to see if they affect play or
not.
3. Place the disk on a flat surface - both sides to determine if they have
storage disks. Storage disk up or storage disk down. If any, I measure
distance lifted off the flat surface; play to see if they affect play or not.
4. Then I go over - overall factory defects/mistakes (like label on wrong side)
pressing bubbles; inclusions; label splits; etc.
5 Then I move on to look for any rim cracks/dead end edge chips/hairline cracks
6. Then I check for water stains; mildew stains;
7. Then move on to detect any sign of POLISHING jobs and note them; or
doctoring jobs, just incase. .
8.. With the above boring routine chores out of the way, Now I finally get to
my favorite part, fun stuff - scrutizing the disk under a bright direct 100
watt halogen lamp at all different angle - any flaws should jump out at you.
Clustered paper scuffs that glides on the glossy surface without delving into
the wax - gets knocked down to M- right away. UNPLAYED does not necearrily
come out Mint. Any juke wear with loss of gloss gets knocked down to VG+.
Scratches that delves into the wax - gets me shaking nervous and I put them
aside for more careful attention and play and how deep the scratch delves into
the wax. I try to feel them with my finger nails first. These disks with
scratches don't even come into VG++ M- M modem at this point - so they get set
aside for now.
Even with all that I do, grading is highly subjective. I have missed scratches
and gotten records returned. Also There are mid-sixties garage record guys,
and others, who grades stricter than me. So, basically, to me all grading is -
is communication. to help minimize any unanticipated surprises. In record
dealing through mail the buyer cannot see the record that he/she is about to
pay for. It's buyer's hard earned money - they deserve respect and
consideration - and it's seller's job to communicate and make sure the dealing
goes smooth to the buyer's satisfaction. Also, after all the work I put in to
select better records to put on my auction, and carefully grade and invest
money to put in big ads in leading record trade magazines - and I receive a
post card with bids like one dollar or $1.25 - my feelings get hurt and I get
discouraged. And in effort to avoid getting low balled, and if I put a minimum
bid of $10 on a LP like LAURIE SLP 2036 (Stereo) The Chiffons "Sweet talking
guy" M- record; VG++ cover and I get NO BIDS AT ALL with a week and a half more
to go before auction closing, and I hear that some Big dealer outfit got about
$100 for it, I not only feel disappointed and discouraged - I feel like
somethings the matter with me - like I'm doing something terribly wrong - and
feel like a total looser and a fool. So I guess that's where I struggle -
fighting discouragement, burn out and trying to keep up the strict grading
standards (even though down side of me says loosen up on that grading by 1/2 to
a full grade - to make the list look good - nobody cares about your strict
grading anyways). But, I have made a vow that I shall grade as if I am buying
the record - as if I am the one who's about to pay cash. So I uphold to
grading with respect to buyer in mind. And also keep in mind that grading is
subjective and if the buyer is not happy - buyer's grading is right - so I give
money back prompt.
Susan Bowman sbre...@aol.com
Norm Katuna
On 3/28/53 Billboard magazine reviewed King 4609, Roy Brown-----"Grandpa Stole
My Baby", rating it at an 75, and on 21 Mar 1998 13:36:19 GMT, in
rec.music.collecting.vinyl, sbre...@aol.com (Sbrecords), wrote:
::: Susan Bowman sbre...@aol.com
To the group and to Susan by e-mail.
I keep thinking that I've seen your ads in Goldmine before, and that you are
located somewhere in Illinois.
With that, I just have to ask this question. And if I'm way off base, my
apologies.
Are you related to the famous Bowman collecting family, namely Gary, Chris, and
one more that I've seemed to have forgotten his name. At least two of them are
MDs. The famous Gary (I collect every rare colored wax original 45 that I can
lay my hands on) Bowman, has been over to visit a few times here in San Diego.
**To combat unwanted autospams, I have added an x to my e-mail
address. Please remove the x (@xhome.com) before responding.**
Norm Katuna
------------------
Pretty boy........Rockin' the mule.........Big 617
Whitey Pullen.....Tuscaloosa Lucy..........Sage 3 13
Dwight Pullen.....Sunglasses after dark....Carlton 455
Humano
For many, if not most dealers, mint translates as no visual post-production
flaws. Sound grading should be a seperate grade if you have the time for that,
which most who make their living doing this don't. It's a mystery to me why
people have trouble grading mint it's the easiest! Mint does not mean 'perfect
under the microscope'. Mint means 'new or in original condition, as if freshly
minted'. You can have tiny wrinkles at the spine or inside of gatefolds, for
instance, as those tend to be part of the manufacturing process. Cutouts, seam
wear, discoloration, ring wear, price tags, writing is obviously not
acceptable. Records should retain sheen and have no visible marks from
handling. Labels should have no wear to the surface or spindle hole.
There are exceptions. Error records with crooked paste-ons, double printing,
bubbles in the wax, etc. should not be graded mint even if factory fresh. The
whole idea behind gem mint comes from comics collecting and relates to color
fading and paper degradation due to atmospheric conditions. Mint allows for
slight fading due to the ravages of time, Gem Mint does not.
It all boils down to Mint= looks unplayed.
Ron Moore
Soon the Ufos will land
and mankind will meet much
stronger brains and habits.
Lets get ready for that.
tbou...@gte.net
VinylOnly wrote:
> My advice to all buyers is to avoid sellers who advertise MINT.
Give me a break!
TB/Florida
phi...@airmail.net
In article <35214d84...@news.sprint.ca>,
snailha...@sprint.ca wrote:
>
>
> ok...this maybe up for a debate!!!!!!!!
>
> while I don't have a goldmine handy...though i'm sure that's the
>
> I mean......the highest, best possible quality in my eyes for any
> record is SS still sealed....never played...is this also meant to be
> mint condition????
>
> minus...and so on.....
>
> I say this, because to me, in the world of collecting,whether it be
> vinyl, coins etc, the term "mint condition" to me, is used too
> loosely, one person mint, is another person's "scratched to hell"
>
> again, I suppose, goldmine has set the standard, or some other source,
> so please..people, enlighten me....i'm curious as to opinions on this
> matter!!!!
>
> scott s.
> halifax, canada
>
>
Still Sealed is no guarantee either - I remember as a kid I received the
Brenda Lee lp The Versatile Brenda Lee - the pressing was so bad - surface
noice that almost made Brenda's vocal inaudible in parts. In the mid-70's I
found a Still Sealed copy in a record store, so I bought it, got it home and
would you believe it was just as bad as the one I gotten in 1965! I view
mint very skeptically!
John W.
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
Cheemo
snailha...@sprint.ca wrote in article
<35214d84...@news.sprint.ca>...
>
> ok...this maybe up for a debate!!!!!!!!
>
> while I don't have a goldmine handy...though i'm sure that's the
> standard...what exactly is mint condition?
>
> I mean......the highest, best possible quality in my eyes for any
> record is SS still sealed....never played...is this also meant to be
> mint condition????
>
> after you play it once...it will go downhill....to say a mint
> minus...and so on.....
>
> I say this, because to me, in the world of collecting,whether it be
> vinyl, coins etc, the term "mint condition" to me, is used too
> loosely, one person mint, is another person's "scratched to hell"
>
> again, I suppose, goldmine has set the standard, or some other source,
> so please..people, enlighten me....i'm curious as to opinions on this
> matter!!!!
When I arrived at Goldmine magazine in 1995, before I started working on
any of the more recent price guides, trying to make them more accurate (and
complete) both in discography and in valuation, one of my jobs was to
re-write the (then) eight-year-old Goldmine Grading Guide to translate it
into English, to make it more understandable to the average reader. I
based it on the theory that most dealers grade visually, and using that
caveat, here's what I wrote about "Mint":
Mint (M): Absolutely perfect in every way -- certainly never played,
possibly even still sealed. Should be used sparingly as a grade, if at all.
[I did mention elsewhere that still sealed records aren't necessarily mint,
because of cut-out markings, bent corners, etc., and of course the
possibility that said LP was re-sealed.. but no one does that
unscrupulously, right? :) ]
Anyway, IMHO I don't believe that a record can ever be truly Mint, because
nothing made by man (or man-conceived machine) can ever be utterly perfect.
I know that at least one dealer who sells new stuff (as in current
unplayed things) grades his items "mint minus" for this very reason.
I also don't like Good Rockin' Tonight's grading system, where there are
two grades higher than Near Mint. But I also find that they give plenty of
description, and usually a photograph, of the really pricey stuff, so you
can translate it into the appropriate Goldmine grade and bid (or not bid)
accordingly.
I think that grading will always be subjective because of the number of
variables involved (labels, wax, covers, etc.) I sure don't want to end up
like coin collecting, where there is a 70-point grading system and there
can be HUGE differences in prices realized between items graded 65 and 66
and 67 (three different grades of uncirculated, which is numismatics'
equavalent of "mint")! We record collectors (and I am one, for 25 years)
can often be anal retentive, but I hope not THAT anal retentive...
Peace to all,
Tim Neely
Goldmine magazine
vinyl...@door.net
True, the term "mint" is derived from other collecting genre, meaning freshly
"minted" or made... new. But there is no miscontext of the term in record
collecting. All sources I know define "mint" as prefect, nothing less. Age has
nothing to do with it... nor does being sealed. I have opened boxes of new
LPs, straight from the distributor, with dents and crinkles. Not mint. Any
less than perfect must be downgraded.
...Vinylville
Vinyl... as the stuff records are made of... not floor covering.
IMPORTANT !!
Be sure to remove the "bs" from the reply-to address before sending !!
Visit my website at http://members.tripod.com/~Vinylville !!
snailha...@sprint.ca
Hi folks!!!!!!!
just a quick note with regard to postings so far......
well...I see that i am not the only one to think that mint condition
is not a great term. to me it's incredibly vague, and with comments
put forth here, collectors and dealers take pride in giving a very
accurate description of the condition of vinyl!!!!
for susan....yeah...my name is long here....I put NO SPAM within the
actual e-mail address to avoid those beloved spider programs crawling
across the web looking for anything with a @ symbol so they can send
out SPAM....that's why it's long.....it works wonderously well for the
most part!!!!!!
anyways...keep the comments a comin!!!!
Scott Snailham
Halifax, N.S.
Canada
home page is at http://www.Geocities.com/TelevisionCity/set/8865
that's if you are curious!!!!!!!
cart...@vianet.net.au
Eazy! a record / plus its packaging is in perfect condition, that is, no
bends in the cover, or ring marks, or the most dreaded defect of all time,
biro markings, or evidence that the record cover was used as some kind of
writing desk.
J 45rpm
In my humble opinion, mint does not mean the record looks unplayed, mint means
the record is unplayed. New sealed records might not be mint. Mint means that a
record is perfect. The vinyl is in absolutely perfect shape, never played, and
no airbubbles. The sleeve is perfect, unfolder, no smeared ink, and is
absolutely perfect as I earlier stated.
From,
Jed Sorokin-Altmann (j45...@aol.com)
On March 21, 1998, Ron Moore (hum...@aol.com) posted:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jed's 45rpm Etc.
From 78's to 45's to 33 1/3's
From Elvis to Beatles to Soundtracks and Original Cast Albums to Common Items
http://www.angelfire.com/biz/j45rpm
vinyl...@door.net
In article <01bd553d$f2357e80$71fd...@s113.gglbbs.com>,
"Cheemo" <che...@gglbbs.com> wrote:
>
> I think that grading will always be subjective because of the number of
> variables involved (labels, wax, covers, etc.) I sure don't want to end up
> like coin collecting, where there is a 70-point grading system and there
> can be HUGE differences in prices realized between items graded 65 and 66
> and 67 (three different grades of uncirculated, which is numismatics'
> equavalent of "mint")! We record collectors (and I am one, for 25 years)
> can often be anal retentive, but I hope not THAT anal retentive...
>
> Peace to all,
> Tim Neely
> Goldmine magazine
Very true, Tim... Although the two grading systems are nearly the same, both
Goldmine and Discoveries do have some variations of terms. I'm leary about
folks who grade with a half dozen pluses or minuses. I can't help but feel
that they're intent is to make the item sound better than it is instead of
just trying to be accurate. Take "Excellent" for example... Although not a
true Goldmine term but one of Discoveries, it's basicly better than VG+ but
less than NM. Some use EX instead of VG+, so it's best to ask the grader. I've
come across some ads with one item graded VG++ and a couple of items down, one
graded EX. So I ask, "What's the difference?" "Oh, it's better than VG++!",
they reply. "So it's NM.", I proclaim... and they answer, "No, not quite.".
Hmmmm... VG+++? I'm uncomfortable that. And as I said, in most cases it's
probably what I would consider VG+ anyway. :)
Now there are some who use the ten point grade system, which is essentially
the same as GM and Disc, except it exchanges the terms, which can be
confusing, for numbers one through ten. The only problem is that this system
is new and not consistant from one dealer to another. I can go with a ten
point system but a seventy... no way!
vinyl...@door.net
MEMORIES music uk
good question Scott
in England we are not allowed to use the grade N.M. in record collector our
equivalent to goldmine magazine,
it has to be MINT or EX which is far to big a gap.
I prefer not to use the grade mint therefore if I was to advertise in R.C.
it would have to be EX which in a lot of cases would mean I am undergrading.
also I have bought new sealed copies of records, opened them and found
slight surface marks or scratches on them, so where exactly does MINT stand
in the grading field.
now we are one big happy family on the web I feel it is time we started our
own grading system.
heres my suggestion, (just for fun folks) I dont think goldmine & record
collector will adopt them.
old grade first, new grade, description
STILL SEALED. DODDGY
was either sealed when made or sealed last night.
MINT. THE DOGS BO##OCKS
as new ? not sure on this one as i have had brand new unplayed records with
surface marks or even light scratches on.
N.M.. SPOT ON
a more realistic grading for a as new record.
EX. TICKERDY BOO
a nice record to have, may not look perfect, maybe has a few surface marks
or even a slight scratch
but plays great.
VG. SO SO
an ideal record for someone who likes the music, surface marks, slight
scratches, ropey sleeve
looks like the one you play when you come home from the pub or after you
have been on the
happy backy.
LESS THAN V.G. JUNK
( these grades often get confused with the grade mint by none dealers)
looks and sounds anything but a record,
ideal object to use as an ashtray, dogs teething toy, Frisbee etc.
prices for these items very immensely, a dealer may sell such items for a
dollar or two ( and feel guilty about doing so)
however none dealers tend to offer them at 50 dollars plus.
david
par...@msn.com
-----Original Message-----
From: snailha...@sprint.ca <snailha...@sprint.ca>
Newsgroups: rec.music.collecting.vinyl
Date: 21 March 1998 05:17
Subject: WHAT IS MINT CONDITION?????
>
>ok...this maybe up for a debate!!!!!!!!
>
>while I don't have a goldmine handy...though i'm sure that's the
>standard...what exactly is mint condition?
>
>I mean......the highest, best possible quality in my eyes for any
>record is SS still sealed....never played...is this also meant to be
>mint condition????
>
>after you play it once...it will go downhill....to say a mint
>minus...and so on.....
>
>I say this, because to me, in the world of collecting,whether it be
>vinyl, coins etc, the term "mint condition" to me, is used too
>loosely, one person mint, is another person's "scratched to hell"
>
>again, I suppose, goldmine has set the standard, or some other source,
>so please..people, enlighten me....i'm curious as to opinions on this
>matter!!!!
>
>scott s.
>halifax, canada
>
>
>
Humano
Excellent comes from European grading and on that side of the pond it often
means looks Vg+ plays Nm. I like to use it in place of Vg++ just because it
reads better:).
I would like to see the number system become more readily accepted with the
modification- 10=M, 9=Nm, 8=Ex, 6=Vg+, 4=Vg, 2=G, 1=F, 0=P. This would leave
5 and 7 as borderline grades for if one side is better than other or it's a
close call what have you. Better to represent by numbers all the ++ or +(+).
The real butchery in grading is with Vg and Vg+ which at one time were
collectible grades but with the grade inflation over the last twenty years now
means 'beat' in so many catalogs. Vg stands for very good... I'm not sure if
it's the very or the good that gives folks trouble.
Mellie6195
>or the most dreaded defect of all time,
>biro markings,
what exactly are biro markings?
melanie
@---}---
"You can run all your life, but not go anywhere."
-Social Distortion
"Life is short, so love the one you got, 'cause you might get run over or you
might get shot."
-Sublime
@----}---
Im Big K
As a buyer, I would define MINT as a sealed album which has no visible defects.
That's with the assumption that IF the album has some problem in the pressing
it could be returned to the seller within a reasonable period of time.
-Big K
NP - Joan Jett & The Blackhearts - ALBUM
BackTrac45
>As a buyer, I would define MINT as a sealed album which has no visible
>defects.
> That's with the assumption that IF the album has some problem in the
>pressing
>it could be returned to the seller within a reasonable period of time.
>
>
I have seen a few responses that seem to say what you are.
But of course we all want to believe that a sealed album will be
mint when we remove it from the jacket. There is always
a chance that the record has a factory flaw, or was packaged
improperly.
Some people in the past have said that a sealed record is
mint, since it was never handled by human hands, avoiding any
damage. This is untrue. there are no machines at the record
plant that can put records into the jackets. This is all hand done.
I have Bought some new LPs which were so poorly packaged,
that the inner sleeve was ripped almost in two and and the
records suffered streaking scuffs across the surface.
A visual grade would make them no better than VG+.
Since we cannot see the condition of the record inside
a factory sealed item, how can we advertsie it as mint?
The best and only grade that can be given is SS, which
stands for Still Sealed. If its a cut-out and the shrinkwrap
is over the saw marks (no break in the shrink) then it
was most likely a distributor resealed item. A lot of
distributors removed old shrinkwrap before making
the cut out markings. Then resealing the item. The records
are sometimes removed to be sure that the dealer who sent
the item back, did not put a promo in a commercial jacket.
Promos are given away, and some dealers try to send back
promos to get a refund from the distributor (unethical).
But because these items have now been in and out ouf the
jackets twice, they risk damage from the repeated handling.
I won't argue with people on there use of mint when advertising.
The price they ask is more important at times. If they
call a record mint that may be worth $10 bucks but only ask
$2 or $3, I am hoping that the record is at least NM or EX.
I have bought from a few people who advertised this way.
None of the graded records I bought were mint, but I was
satisfied that some were close enough to NM, and also
the price was fair for NM. So no complaints from me.
BTW: If the sellers would have said EX or NM, I would have
still bought the records for the same price. The MINT grade
given was not the reason I bought.
I have seen several ads in the rmmv which proclaim that
all their vinyl is mint. That is ridiculous. As a dealer, I have
never seen a truely mint item, that was used (opened).
If it has seen play time, it can't be any higher than NM.
If a person describes mint as sealed or new, then an opened
item must be assumed to have been played.
How many times do you see ads where they say
"Opened yet never played". ??? Why would someone
buy a record, open it, yet never play it? Who are they
trying to kid?
I still believe that the mint grade is a hyped up term so
that people can make their records look better.
In a realistic world, mint has become synomous with
the meaning of perfect. And as we all know, no man made
product is perfect. Gem Mint? Good Rockin' Tonight
uses it, but I don't see anyone else following there lead.
Why is NM so hard to say? NM is as close to new
condition and most collectors will be glad to have them
if the price is right. Mint grades and higher prices will
not sell faster. Skeptics are out there and they don't
take chances very often.
You have to be honest with yourself. If you were buying
the record, not selling it, what is the most conservative
grade you can give? If you buy a lot a records and
depend on accurate grading, are you getting it?
Everyone grades differently. That Mint record to you
may only be NM to the next person.
Tim
Tim
Back-Trac Records
http://back-trac.com
Vinyl News http://users.aol.com/vinylnews/private/vnews.htm
Handguide To Record Collecting (100% free info).
Im Big K
>
> I have seen a few responses that seem to say what you are.
>But of course we all want to believe that a sealed album will be
>mint when we remove it from the jacket. There is always
>a chance that the record has a factory flaw, or was packaged
>improperly.
> Some people in the past have said that a sealed record is
>mint, since it was never handled by human hands, avoiding any
>damage. This is untrue. there are no machines at the record
>plant that can put records into the jackets. This is all hand done.
>I have Bought some new LPs which were so poorly packaged,
>that the inner sleeve was ripped almost in two and and the
>records suffered streaking scuffs across the surface.
>A visual grade would make them no better than VG+.
>
> Since we cannot see the condition of the record inside
>a factory sealed item, how can we advertsie it as mint?
>The best and only grade that can be given is SS, which
>stands for Still Sealed.
I agree with you, actually... SS is a more accurate grade. All I'm saying is
that if someone was selling a sealed LP with no visual defects and calling it
"Mint", I would consider it a reasonable use of the term.
-Big K
NP - Joan Jett & The Blackhearts - UP YOUR ALLEY
Humano
There are also records and even cds which are shipped unsealed especially
privates and limited reissue stuff. I don't have a problem with either New or
Mint on these provided the cover didn't take any shipping damage.
The idea that mint has to be unplayed is a worthy goal but if you can play a
record and leave no sign of it does it really matter?
vinyl...@door.net
I agree that grading is subjective and although we try to be as descriptive as
possible with each grading term, everyone is going to view an item
differently. I can understand and except a slight variance in grade and I will
refrain from comdemning the seller, but a when there is a gap as wide as the
Grand Canyon between the said condition and the true condition, then there is
reason to question his or her knowledge, truthfulness and/or eyes. I still
won't bad mouth a seller openly, but if someone asks, I'll recommend not doing
business with that seller.
snailha...@sprint.ca
boy...did I open a can of worms!!!!!!
however, from what I gather...the general consensus, is that if
someone says it's MINT, than it's a LOAD OF CRAP!! or at least be
cautious....
I agree...for the most part when you are dealing with vinyl, it's very
subjective...I mean..regardless of standards, it can all come down to
the individual doing the grading.....I can't say I have been stung
myself that much, as I don't deal with people via mail order, at least
recently...can't afford it, so my buying is restricted to thrift
shops.and flea markets, so i can see what 's there, though that's no
guarantee..as the thing could look great, but be screwed by a bad
stylus! but I think I said before, I think most of the people here
would be horrified with what some people call "mint condition". hence
I thought i'd bring this subject up!!!!
if you really wanna get fussy, the turntable matters a great deal to
the sound in grading as well....if you are grading on a table that is
not properly calibrated for cartridge placement...you get cartridge
misalignment and thus quite noticeable groove distortion especially
the closer you get to the middle....if you don't realize this, you can
take it as part of the disc, and not of the table...this can also be
determined by the type of stylus you use...but then, i'm really
getting fussy!!!!
to david...i'm familiar with record collector, as I can get it here in
halifax...though it's expensive...and expensive to buy from, but I
find it interesting at their grading policy!!!!
anyways...keep those comments a comin....I read every one!!!!
scott snailham
halifax, nova scotia
canada
WHERE PART OF "TITANIC" was filmed!!!!
and some people from the titanic were buried!
(just when you thought you'd get away from the hype eh? heh heh!!)
details on my web site at:
http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/Set/8865
yet another shameless plug.......
VinylOnly
>however, from what I gather...the general consensus, is that if
>someone says it's MINT, than it's a LOAD OF CRAP!! or at least be
>cautious....
>
>
Howdy.......................
The problem with MINT is that it leaves absolutely no room for
tolerance. The item is perfect !!! I, as a seller, would much rather
grade NM, and have a customer pleasantly surprised if the item
is viewed by him/her as at least that or better(?). NM gives a
little room to play with, but not much. As mentioned here and
other places, if you can see a difference between two identical
records that are both graded MINT, then somebody is lying. Or
just maybe both are lying............
dagon productions
BackTrac45 (backt...@aol.com) wrote:
: If it has seen play time, it can't be any higher than NM.
: If a person describes mint as sealed or new, then an opened
: item must be assumed to have been played.
: How many times do you see ads where they say
: "Opened yet never played". ??? Why would someone
: buy a record, open it, yet never play it? Who are they
: trying to kid?
It does happen occasionally... I bought a limited edition LP of
readings by Aleister Crowley... I opened the LP but never
played the vinyl... since I already had a tape and with
this particular LP the center label covered the hole... so
to break the hole and play the record would reduce it's
value... I suppose this would be the only way to insure
that what you are holding is unplayed.
-douglas