Yuja Wang Revisited
Charles H. Sampson
by Yuja Wang that I had just heard. A lot of the responses were of the
form, "Well, yeah. But she's a lot of flash without much substance."
That was fair. While I've got some musical training, my head could
still be turned by a beautiful woman giving a flashy performance.
She's returned to Southern California, playing the Rach 3rd at the
Hollywood Bowl last night. Today's review by the LA Times' regular
music critic (Mark Swed) is highly positive, perhaps spending a little
too much time on the orange minidress she was wearing. A couple of
quotes: "... she's still the same tasteful, technically impeccable,
confident and extraordinary pianist she was when she first appeared ...
with the LA Philarmonic in 2009" and "When Rachmaninoff called for
delicacy, speed and grace together, she had all three in exactly the
right proportions and was downright magical.
I assume the entire review can be found at the Times' website; I'm
quoting from the paper version (gasp!).
Charlie
--
[A certain TV newsreader] had a role to play: presenter of the Other
Side of the Argument, to whom fair-minded people were obligated to
pay heed, no matter what nonsense he spouted.
Charlie Pierce, Idiot America
O
Sampson <csam...@inetworld.net> wrote:
> A couple of months ago I posted my glowing review of a performance
> by Yuja Wang that I had just heard. A lot of the responses were of the
> form, "Well, yeah. But she's a lot of flash without much substance."
> That was fair. While I've got some musical training, my head could
> still be turned by a beautiful woman giving a flashy performance.
>
> She's returned to Southern California, playing the Rach 3rd at the
> Hollywood Bowl last night. Today's review by the LA Times' regular
> music critic (Mark Swed) is highly positive, perhaps spending a little
> too much time on the orange minidress she was wearing. A couple of
> quotes: "... she's still the same tasteful, technically impeccable,
> confident and extraordinary pianist she was when she first appeared ...
> with the LA Philarmonic in 2009" and "When Rachmaninoff called for
> delicacy, speed and grace together, she had all three in exactly the
> right proportions and was downright magical.
>
> I assume the entire review can be found at the Times' website; I'm
> quoting from the paper version (gasp!).
Here's the review, along with the picture of the orange dress. (Not
your typical evening gown) I'm impressed:
<http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/culturemonster/2011/08/music-review-yuj
a-wang-lionel-bringuier-at-the-hollywood-bowl.html>
-Owen
SPAM- @xs4all.nl HvT
> Here's the review, along with the picture of the orange dress. (Not
> your typical evening gown) I'm impressed:
>
> <http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/culturemonster/2011/08/music-review-yuj
> a-wang-lionel-bringuier-at-the-hollywood-bowl.html>
Hmmm. It's like professional female tennis players. Nice dresses and nice
girls. Some can also play tennis ...
Henk
Gerard
But the *sounds* they make ....... ;-(
Mort
> Here's the review, along with the picture of the orange dress. (Not
> your typical evening gown) I'm impressed:
>
> <http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/culturemonster/2011/08/music-review-yuj
> a-wang-lionel-bringuier-at-the-hollywood-bowl.html>
>
> -Owen
Hi,
I tried several times to access that review, and all that I got was a
blank screen and "done" on my toolbar. Is the problem in my PC, the
newspaper, or th eURL?
Many thanks.
Morton Linder
O
wrote:
It still works for me. Make sure that there is nothing between
"...yuj" and "a-wang..."
Sometimes newsreaders will break up the line and insert > and spaces.
-Owen
Ward Hardman
I assume that the bowl management had some strategically placed potted
palms around the base of the Steinway to prevent "up the skirt" shots
from the audience. The looks on those female orchestra players' faces
are priceless.
She must have to practice piano wearing those spike-heels. I can't
imagine anyone being to make the proper muscular adjustments
otherwise.
Yuja would make a fine partner with a similarly appareled Klenke
Quartet in a visually sensational DVD of Schubert's "Trout." (No
remarks about a plexiglass cello, please!!!)
A more aptly-named accompanist conductor would have been
"Dutoit." (Must pronounce the final 't.' ;-)
--Ward Hardman
"The older I get, the more I admire and crave competence,
just simple competence, in any field from adultery to zoology."
- H.L. Mencken
herman
At a certain point minidresses can only be workn properly and
comfortably when you intend to stand all the time (think: a reception
in a bar or some such locale).
This dress is way above that point. I really don't know what this
woman is thinking.
And I don't want to be ungallant, but it never ceases to amaze me how
many women performers are called "beautiful" just for showing up.
There are tons of women with a more beautiful face than Wang. Same
thing with Janine Jansen.
O
<692ffb6f-a58a-4cce...@bl1g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,
herman <her...@yahoo.com> wrote:
There are not a whole lot of pianists with the virtuosity (if not
musicality) of Wang who look as good.
But this may change. Maria Sharapova was the first genuinely
competitive tennis player who was also hot, now there's a score of
them.
-Owen
Mort
Hi Owen,
I finally got it. The problem is that the first line of the URL is in
blue and linked, while the second line of the URL is in black and not
linked. When I manually inserted the full URL, I did get the review.
Juja Wang is playing in Carnegie Hall on October 20th of this year;
program not yet announced apparently. I wonder what she will play, and
what color bikini she will be wearing.
Thanks for your help.
Good listening.
Mort
Kip Williams
> I finally got it. The problem is that the first line of the URL is in
> blue and linked, while the second line of the URL is in black and not
> linked. When I manually inserted the full URL, I did get the review.
The way I usually get around that is to copy the second line and click
on the first line. When it gives me a "DUH! WHAT I DO NOW?" message, I
paste the second part after the first and click again.
Kip W
O
wrote:
>
> I finally got it. The problem is that the first line of the URL is in
> blue and linked, while the second line of the URL is in black and not
> linked. When I manually inserted the full URL, I did get the review.
>
> Juja Wang is playing in Carnegie Hall on October 20th of this year;
> program not yet announced apparently. I wonder what she will play, and
> what color bikini she will be wearing.
>
If she wears the red bikini, I'm definitely going. She's also at
Tanglewood with the BSO doing the PagVars (If Deacon can use Pico, I
can use PagVars.)
> Thanks for your help.
>
> Good listening.
You too, Mort!
-Owen
Allen
Allen
pianomaven
>
> At a certain point minidresses can only be workn properly and
> comfortably when you intend to stand all the time (think: a reception
> in a bar or some such locale).
>
> This dress is way above that point. I really don't know what this
> woman is thinking.
>
> And I don't want to be ungallant, but it never ceases to amaze me how
> many women performers are called "beautiful" just for showing up.
> There are tons of women with a more beautiful face than Wang. Same
> thing with Janine Jansen.
So, not only do you not like her playing, but she isn't as beautiful
as some.
The profundity of your response to this musician has been bested by
the profundity of the lady's playing. No question about that in my
mind.
I heard this Rach 3 in Toronto a few months ago and it was an original
interpretation of the piece. Not for everyone, I would say, but
fascinating from a musical standpoint.
TD
herman
well, good you enjoyed it, Tom.
The issue I raised is one of critical judgement. And I wasn't so much
talking about whether it's good judgement to walk on stage and sit
down at the piano dressed like a hooker.
I'm talking about the judgement of those critics who call every female
performer who can get on stage without the aid of a wheelchair
"beautiful", even though they wouldn't probably notice them in the
street (except of course Wang should she be wearing her minidress).
The reason why that worries me is because I suspect the same thing
goes for their judgement in musical matters.
bassppn
> In article <1k5gywq.1r9wwsk1yptr0gN%csamp...@inetworld.net>, Charles H.
>
> - Show quoted text -
too much obsession with Wang. suggest you listen to Grosvenor, a
genuine genius.
AB
Gerard
>
> too much obsession with Wang. suggest you listen to Grosvenor, a
> genuine genius.
>
> AB
Too much obsession with young piano players anyway.
What about recordings of classical music?
O
<08a09358-ee6a-4bab...@br5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,
bassppn <abac...@att.net> wrote:
> >
> > > � � �I assume the entire review can be found at the Times' website; I'm
> > > quoting from the paper version (gasp!).
> >
> > Here's the review, along with the picture of the orange dress. �(Not
> > your typical evening gown) I'm impressed:
> >
> > <http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/culturemonster/2011/08/music-review-yuj
> > a-wang-lionel-bringuier-at-the-hollywood-bowl.html>
> >
> > -Owen- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> too much obsession with Wang. suggest you listen to Grosvenor, a
> genuine genius.
I've seen him. He'd look perfectly horrible in an orange dress.
Actually, I think TD has the hots for Yuja even more than me.
When you think about it, though, this young woman is clearly blessed
with not only incredible keyboard technique, and at least some
rudiments of musicality which most will grudgingly admit, but she's
good looking enough to do a photo shoot for Esquire or GQ. Some women
get all the luck, and she certainly has. I congratulate her continued
success, and hope we could all be lucky too.
-Owen, who really does realize you said "listen"
pgaron
about Yuja Wang's Hollywood Bowl dress and related social issues. See:
or: http://tinyurl.com/3pfy4sy
pgaron
John Wiser
news:100820111110121984%ow...@denofinequityx.com...
She could be wearing nothing at all
and I'd STILL show up!
JDW
SPAM- @xs4all.nl HvT
> Washington Post music critic Anne Midgette wrote an entire blog entry
> about Yuja Wang's Hollywood Bowl dress and related social issues. See:
>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/classical-beat/post/on-the-lack-of-classical-style/2011/08/09/gIQAnkLq4I_blog.html
Excellent article by Anne Midgette. As long as one can play the piano as
well as Wang, it doesn't matter how one looks - even if one decides to come
on stage in a hint of orange or purple.
Henk
Dufus
> As long as one can play the piano as
> well as Wang, it doesn't matter how one looks - even if one decides to come
> on stage in a hint of orange or purple.
>
She plays the ProPico # 2 at Proms Tuesday,August 16 :
http://www.bbc.co.uk/proms/whats-on/2011/august-16/50'
She does seem less a banger than Buniatishvili.
BBC does not indicate what she'll be wearing. Although, for me, that
concerto has an orangish sound.
Dufus
O
<44d027be-ac6c-4056...@s2g2000vby.googlegroups.com>,
Dufus <steve...@gmail.com> wrote:
I like her footnote in the article:
"* (I am also making daring use of the word łeschew,˛ which is
forbidden by some publications as being snooty. I would argue that its
use is appropriate here, since classical musicąs entire attitude toward
this issue is ridiculously snooty itself.)"
She might have also said "...since classical music's attire attitude
toward this issue is ridiculously snooty itself."
Classical music audiences are getting less and less formal nowadays. I
think that's a good thing. Dress up or dress down, it's up to you.
-Owen
O
<cee...@gmail.com> wrote:
That's really (in)decent of you John. Nice to see your support for
nude artists, or was that new artists?
-Owen
Dufus
> That's really (in)decent of you John. Nice to see your support for
> nude artists, or was that new artists?
>
I'm with Wiser; better that Wang than this wang :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxZpjOtgUBI
Peter T. Daniels
Letterman introduces every female guest as "lovely," even Amy Sedaris
and a 75-year-old Canadian radio sex therapist. To be sure, I haven't
seen Joan Cusack or Paula Poundstone on his show.
Not only was the reviewer less than complimentary about Wang's
performance (comparing her work here with that under more "strong-
willed" conductors, where she was "exciting"); the first thing he
chose to comment on was the conductor's new beard. Is that the caliber
of music reviewing in L.A.? Does he also remark on Placido's barbage?
Peter T. Daniels
> Dufus <steveha...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Aug 10, 5:06 pm, "HvT" <hvtuijl- SPAM- @xs4all.nl> wrote:
> > > As long as one can play the piano as
> > > well as Wang, it doesn't matter how one looks - even if one decides to come
> > > on stage in a hint of orange or purple.
>
> > She plays the ProPico # 2 at Proms Tuesday,August 16 :
> >http://www.bbc.co.uk/proms/whats-on/2011/august-16/50'
>
> > She does seem less a banger than Buniatishvili.
>
> > BBC does not indicate what she'll be wearing. Although, for me, that
> > concerto has an orangish sound.
>
> I like her footnote in the article:
>
> "* (I am also making daring use of the word ³eschew,² which is
> forbidden by some publications as being snooty. I would argue that its
> use is appropriate here, since classical music¹s entire attitude toward
> this issue is ridiculously snooty itself.)"
>
> She might have also said "...since classical music's attire attitude
> toward this issue is ridiculously snooty itself."
>
> Classical music audiences are getting less and less formal nowadays. I
> think that's a good thing. Dress up or dress down, it's up to you.
Please tell it to the sitcom writers (who are all out there in L.A.).
They insist on dressing the men, who invariably must be dragged
kicking and screaming to the opera, in black tie.
Peter T. Daniels
Be sure to watch next Tuesday's America's Got Talent wild-card show.
They're bringing back the juggler who played the piano accurately by
bouncing balls off the keys. (Of course he won't do that again, but
they'll show a few seconds of it in his intro.)
The effect, BTW, was not terribly different from the Bach concerto for
marimba and chamber orchestra given in the Washington Square Music
Festival concert three weeks ago. (Sorry, I don't remember which of
the keyboard concertos it was.) There was also a contemporary marimba
concerto, likely commissioned by the performer.
graham
"Mort" <mo...@cloud9.net> wrote in message
news:4e4297a6$0$23665$607e...@cv.net...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFRFgRm1BYE&playnext=1&list=PLAA89498D762ABCC0
herman
>
> Why not let your imagination take flight?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFRFgRm1BYE&playnext=1&list=PLAA89498D...
the page turner was rather pretty, wasn't she?
SPAM- @xs4all.nl HvT
YW certainly isn't a banger. I like her performances. She's a great
professional and I trust that she will last on the international stage for
at least this decade. KB seems to be a troubled lady these days, trying very
hard to wrest the ultimate performance from an unwilling piano.
BTW, I did like Ott's performance of the Grieg concerto. I'm looking forward
to her Beethoven CD.
Henk
pianomaven
I doubt hookers can afford her dresses, Herman.
TD
pianomaven
Looks like hype, Arri.
TD
herman
>
> I doubt hookers can afford her dresses, Herman.
>
> TD
Why not? It can't be the cost of a few handkerchiefs of fabric.
Dufus
> BTW, I did like Ott's performance of the Grieg concerto..
>
As did I. Ott very relaxed, sprightly,colorful,first mov., with effort
to integrate with orchestra, cadenza a bit underpowered perhaps.
Rubinstein is impossible to better in the second mv., but Ott gave a
more heartfelt,sensitive reading here than many youngsters I've
heard ; appealingly lyrical and light-handed in the finale.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0132n6r#synopsis
I also complimented Wang's Rach 2 at Verbier, probably first thing of
hers I've really liked. Wish she were playing something different at
Proms.
Regards, Dufus
Allen
> On Aug 4, 11:10 am, "Gerard"<ghend_no-spam_rik...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> HvT wrote:
>>> O wrote:
>>
>>>> Here's the review, along with the picture of the orange dress. (Not
>>>> your typical evening gown) I'm impressed:
>>
>>>> <http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/culturemonster/2011/08/music-review-yuj
>>>> a-wang-lionel-bringuier-at-the-hollywood-bowl.html>
>>
>>> nice girls. Some can also play tennis ...
>>
>> But the *sounds* they make ....... ;-(
>
> I assume that the bowl management had some strategically placed potted
> palms around the base of the Steinway to prevent "up the skirt" shots
> from the audience. The looks on those female orchestra players' faces
> are priceless.
>
> She must have to practice piano wearing those spike-heels. I can't
> imagine anyone being to make the proper muscular adjustments
> otherwise.
>
> Yuja would make a fine partner with a similarly appareled Klenke
> Quartet in a visually sensational DVD of Schubert's "Trout." (No
> remarks about a plexiglass cello, please!!!)
Recently I mentioned that, at the intermission of an Austin Symphony
concert with Ofra Harnoy as soloist, I was talking with a friend and
told him that I had seen/heard Harnoy in her (un)dressing room offering
a cigarette to her cello and asking "Was it good for you too?" My friend
at the time was reviewing for the local rag and quoted me; I'm happy to
say that he didn't give my name as he had done earlier about something I
had said to him that grossly offended a handful of readers with their
typewriters at the ready. Perhaps a duo of Yuja and Ofra would be
interesting--or is Harnoy still alive? I haven't heard her name in years
(deservedly, IMO).
>
> A more aptly-named accompanist conductor would have been
> "Dutoit." (Must pronounce the final 't.' ;-)
LOL! (bis) LOL!
Allen
>
> --Ward Hardman
>
> "The older I get, the more I admire and crave competence,
> just simple competence, in any field from adultery to zoology."
> - H.L. Mencken
Gerard
Does it matter what she plays there?
graham
"Allen" <all...@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:IOOdnWueTscAeN7T...@giganews.com...
her as Awfully Horny.
Gerard
> According to an insider I know, some in the recording business
> referred to her as Awfully Horny.
Very likely you know someone who knows someone who knows a friend of her
husband.
Peter T. Daniels
wrote:
That's only four degrees of separation.
Gerard
Five.
laraine
> Dufus wrote:
> > On Aug 10, 5:06 pm, "HvT" <hvtuijl- SPAM- @xs4all.nl> wrote:
> >> As long as one can play the piano as
> >> well as Wang, it doesn't matter how one looks - even if one decides
> >> to come on stage in a hint of orange or purple.
>
> > She plays the ProPico # 2 at Proms Tuesday,August 16 :
> >http://www.bbc.co.uk/proms/whats-on/2011/august-16/50'
>
> > She does seem less a banger than Buniatishvili.
>
> > BBC does not indicate what she'll be wearing. Although, for me, that
> > concerto has an orangish sound.
>
> YW certainly isn't a banger. I like her performances. She's a great
> professional and I trust that she will last on the international stage for
> at least this decade. KB seems to be a troubled lady these days, trying very
> hard to wrest the ultimate performance from an unwilling piano.
Both of these ladies seem to be at a similar
level to me, Wang better at concertos, KB
better at the solo pieces. They likely need
a few more years to develop. Considering that
females supposedly have ~14% less muscle mass
than males, I'd say their feats are astounding,
yet I hope they avoid injury.
As far as their dress, it's becoming a
typical thing nowadays. I have mixed
feelings about it --seems uncomfortable,
esp. the heels, but I have to admit that
when I was that age, I thought dress-up
could be kind of fun too.
C.
gereco
> She plays the ProPico # 2 at Proms Tuesday,August 16 :http://www.bbc.co.uk/proms/whats-on/2011/august-16/50'
I shall listen, if I don’t forget, just to compare to Yeol Eum Son’s
performance.
[Here is her Silver Medal performance at the 2009 VCC:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFQIa4qNM0I
Some have commented aversely on the physical movements. I ask them how
do they think this 100 lb. gal could meet the requirements of the
formidable Cadenza ET AL, without literally lifting/thrusting her
body into the KB for the sounds demanded?
> She does seem less a banger than Buniatishvili.
True – but she doesn’t have the latter’s Russian impetuosity and drama
(which will be something when she stops the unerring flow of bloopers
and 'overstatements' by cutting down the “edge” playing (obviously
imitating Argerich, but failing).
She could afford to swap two dollops of her technique with Trifonov
for a dollop of his "tonal" sensitivity.
[Equal bargaining]
> BBC does not indicate what she'll be wearing. Although, for me, that
> concerto has an orangish sound.
More red to me. See Yeol Eum Son's performance above.
Son, my favorite of the younger set (who should have won the Gold
Medal at the recent Tchaikowski competition!) can be compared to the
more popular (because of "looks"?) Wang in another work (Mozart-
Volodos, Turkish March):
Wang:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umEuJ76wUFc
Son:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRQxJkh4RSI
gc
John Wiser
news:6eae1$4e43f7de$53565cf2$8...@cache3.tilbu1.nb.home.nl...
It's not enough, I say!
JDW
pianomaven
> On Aug 11, 2:49 am, "HvT" <hvtuijl- SPAM- @xs4all.nl> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Dufus wrote:
> > > On Aug 10, 5:06 pm, "HvT" <hvtuijl- SPAM- @xs4all.nl> wrote:
> > >> As long as one can play the piano as
> > >> well as Wang, it doesn't matter how one looks - even if one decides
> > >> to come on stage in a hint of orange or purple.
>
> > > She plays the ProPico # 2 at Proms Tuesday,August 16 :
> > >http://www.bbc.co.uk/proms/whats-on/2011/august-16/50'
>
> > > She does seem less a banger than Buniatishvili.
>
> > > BBC does not indicate what she'll be wearing. Although, for me, that
> > > concerto has an orangish sound.
>
> > YW certainly isn't a banger. I like her performances. She's a great
> > professional and I trust that she will last on the international stage for
> > at least this decade. KB seems to be a troubled lady these days, trying very
> > hard to wrest the ultimate performance from an unwilling piano.
>
> Both of these ladies seem to be at a similar
> level to me, Wang better at concertos, KB
> better at the solo pieces.
Nonsense.
I have not heard a better or more interesting performance of
Stravinsky's Three pieces from Petroushka.
Indeed, when you are listening to her play anything, you simply forget
other interpretations of that music.
TD
pianomaven
An amazing statement. I heard every note of that competition. She was
good, but not special, in my opinion. Cho, on the other hand, well, he
is truly something special.
TD
Dufus
> I have not heard a better or more interesting performance of
> Stravinsky's Three pieces from Petroushka.
I have. Brendel's.
> Indeed, when you are listening to her play anything, you simply forget
> other interpretations of that music.
>
Yes, one's ears often ring so badly one can't remember one's name. Let
alone other performances.
Wang has great promise, but is not yet the defintive interpreter
( ...or ? ) of "anything." Been a warm Summer in Ontario, TD ? Try a
bottle of Walter Taylor's New York State vineyard Bully Hill's "Goat
Hill White" ; Summer has no chance against it, and goes well with fish
and moose.
Dufus
gereco
> An amazing statement
This is the place where they germinate and proliferate,
>. I heard every note of that competition.
So did I, and I’d bet more than you heard in the earlier rounds. Can
you name the Romantic piece that Son played so arrestingly
beautifully, in her first (I think) full recital? [At the speed with
which you reply, I’ll know if you took time to look it up.]
> She was good, but not special, in my opinion.
She WAS *special*, in 99/44/100% of her offerings, but then, it seems
there are others besides the jury (maybe the few whose votes messed
things up) who are not ’specially’ astute in recognizing/HEARING
outstanding mature, Gold Medal talent (despite her Rach 3 being a
slight notch below her usual highest standards.
Show me where the winner, Trifonov, was, IS - ‘special.’
He played his ‘signature’ concerto (the Chopin E Minor, which he has
played in two other recent International competitions; talk about
automatic pilot!) and the required Tchaikovsky , plus Mozart.
Son played the Tchaikovsky, the Rach 3, plus the Mozart, for which she
won best performance.prize. [yes, I know Trifonov shared this, but his
was not near as gorgeously played as Son’s]
Having followed this pianist since first hearing her in the VCC 2009,
it was very noticable to me the growth in musicality (AND special
technical challenges) that has occurred with her since then. The
Mozart concerto, the 'romantic' piece (that Deacon has to name), and
the Schedrin (commissioned piece for which she also won Best
Performance award) and particularly the Kapuistin Variations, display
this advancement to all her loyal followers.
> Cho, on the other hand, well, he is truly something special.
At his present stage, a wind-up miniature piannah playah. He and
Chernov should not have advanced to the Finals (although I can’t at
this time, name who should have replaced them).
gc
Dufus
> An amazing statement. I heard every note of that competition. She was
> good, but not special, in my opinion. Cho, on the other hand, well, he
> is truly something special.
>
OMG. I ,too , heard many notes of that competition ,including all of
Cho , Son, except their very last concertos. The great pianist of the
competition was Fillip Kopachevskiy, who, in typical competition
fashion, did not make the finals. Cho was out of his depth in the
Beethoven Op.110 he chose to open the Competition( ! ) , wandered
around in the Schumann "Humoresque", and totally missed the great
Orthodox hymn in the closing "Gates" of Mussourgsky's "Pictures."
Son's first recital was likewise presumptous with Op.111 and the
trashy Feinberg "Pathetique" march , and she also wandered about in
"Humoresque", but she was co-winner of the Mozart concerto stage, with
Gold medlaist Trifonov, for her luminous K.467, and lit up the
audience with her imaginative solo recital Kapustin Op.41. Cho has
great promise, but still a boy trying to do a man's job.
Have a glass,TD.
Dufus
pianomaven
> On Aug 11, 5:55 pm, pianomaven <1pianoma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Aug 11, 5:32 pm, gereco <g...@gerriecollins.com> wrote:
>
> > > Son, my favorite of the younger set (who should have won the Gold
> > > Medal at the recent Tchaikowski competition!) can be compared to the
> > > more popular (because of "looks"?) Wang in another work (Mozart-
> > > Volodos, Turkish March):
> > An amazing statement
>
> This is the place where they germinate and proliferate,
>
> >. I heard every note of that competition.
>
> So did I, and I’d bet more than you heard in the earlier rounds. Can
> you name the Romantic piece that Son played so arrestingly
> beautifully, in her first (I think) full recital? [At the speed with
> which you reply, I’ll know if you took time to look it up.]
>
> > She was good, but not special, in my opinion.
>
> there are others besides the jury (maybe the few whose votes messed
> things up) who are not ’specially’ astute in recognizing/HEARING
> outstanding mature, Gold Medal talent (despite her Rach 3 being a
> slight notch below her usual highest standards.
>
> Show me where the winner, Trifonov, was, IS - ‘special.’
> He played his ‘signature’ concerto (the Chopin E Minor, which he has
> played in two other recent International competitions; talk about
> automatic pilot!) and the required Tchaikovsky , plus Mozart.
>
> Son played the Tchaikovsky, the Rach 3, plus the Mozart, for which she
> won best performance.prize. [yes, I know Trifonov shared this, but his
> was not near as gorgeously played as Son’s]
>
> Having followed this pianist since first hearing her in the VCC 2009,
> it was very noticable to me the growth in musicality (AND special
> technical challenges) that has occurred with her since then. The
> Mozart concerto, the 'romantic' piece (that Deacon has to name), and
> the Schedrin (commissioned piece for which she also won Best
> Performance award) and particularly the Kapuistin Variations, display
> this advancement to all her loyal followers.
>
> > Cho, on the other hand, well, he is truly something special.
>
> At his present stage, a wind-up miniature piannah playah. He and
> Chernov should not have advanced to the Finals (although I can’t at
> this time, name who should have replaced them).
Son is a good student. No more, no less. The least you can say about
Trifonov -who also got the coveted Gold Medal, by the wa - is that he
will please the ladies in the audience what with all his poetic
swooning. i tired of it instantly. In Tel Aviv they are still
swooning.
I heard every note of the competition. No recollection of Son's
romantic piece(why should I not forget it if it was gorgettable?), but
thought her Kapustin was out of place and trashy. Clearly you have
been taken with this woman for some time; hence the familiarity with
every little note and inflection. To me she was just another
competitor.
TD
pianomaven
Happy to.
But get another pair of ears.
TD
Dufus
> Trifonov.......
> will please the ladies in the audience what with all his poetic
> swooning. i tired of it instantly.
As did I. Go back and listen to Kopachevskiy's archived videos. Great
playing. Of the music.
Dufus
gereco
> On Aug 11, 8:21 pm, gereco <g...@gerriecollins.com> wrote:
> > Son is a good student. No more, no less. The least you can say about
> Trifonov -who also got the coveted Gold Medal, by the wa - is that he
> will please the ladies in the audience what with all his poetic
> swooning. i tired of it instantly. In Tel Aviv they are still
> swooning.
You are right about Trifonov, but here is one lady who is not wooed so
flimsiily. While we’re on that subject, I shall never forget the
clattering, ingénue-type response the audience gave Trifonov at EVERY
thing he played, from his chock-full-of bloopers and UNcreative
Mephisto to his “swooning” (good word, for him) over anything remotely
kin to a poetic line. Maybe it’s because of his evocative “Blue Boy”
image. Then there is the complete contrast to every dazzling,
musically/technically superior performance of Son! It almost revealed
that they were afraid she might win, and therefore did everything
possible to show the judges WHERE their “1s” should be bestowed.
Outrageous, and belittling. I remember commenting with friends that
if I were Son, and my contract (for 2nd prize) included concerts in
Moscow, I would decline to observe it.
So far as your remark about Son being ‘just’ a good student (so the
sun is now rising in the west?), about the best thing I can say at
this late hour is, “this too shall pass.”
> I heard every note of the competition. No recollection of Son's
> romantic piece(why should I not forget it if it was gorgettable?),
[Was this a mental slip for "gorgeous"?
Proof that you did not hear every note, because her singularly
impressive interpretation and *Schumannesque Style” of the Humoresque
should have imprinted on any serious listener’s ears.
> but thought her Kapustin was out of place and trashy
Ah - because it was superior concert jazz, impressive pianistically,
and ravishingly played? You "sound" like the *actions* of that
initial audience in Paris for the historically and aurally supreme Le
Sacre du Printemps
. Clearly you have
> been taken with this woman for some time; hence the familiarity with
> every little note and inflection.
You bet! That’s why she occupies the position that she does in my
evaluation of the young pianists contemporary scene. [But be
appraised: she does not hold the summa cathedra here That will
always belong to Evgeny Bozhanov, who should have won VCC 2009, AND
Chopin International 2010.
gc (who is finished with the topic)
herman
>
> gc (who is finished with the topic)
Very amusing the way these discussions about piano competitions tend
to be about matters of taste taking as absolute fact.
however, what I'm asking is, is this (un)forgettable Son Humoreske
somehow available on the net, with or without video? I'd like to
sample it.
I'm listening to a much earlier Op. 25 now which is far from
unforgettable, but it does have character and a bold tone.
Dufus
[But be
> appraised: she does not hold the summa cathedra here That will
> always belong to Evgeny Bozhanov, who should have won VCC 2009, AND
> Chopin International 2010.
>
Correct.
Dufus
> however, what I'm asking is, is this (un)forgettable Son Humoreske
> somehow available on the net, with or without video? I'd like to
> sample it.
All the Tchaikovsky performances, solo and concerto, are here , good
quality audio/video : http://pitch.paraclassics.com/Welcome.aspx
You'll need to register for the account, which is free, and quite easy
to do.
Then on the opening window, click on the orange "Menu" bar at left, on
the next page on "Archives" at top, and your there with arrows to
advance among recitals. Wait a bit; sometimes takes a minute to load.
I'd reccomend:
Son's second solo recital ( the Schumann , Schedrin required piece
for which she won a prize, and Kapustin ) , and Mozart concerto ( K.
467 )
Trifonov's second solo recital ( Scriabin and Chopin Op.25 ) , and
Chopin E Minor Final concerto
Cho's second solo recital ( Schumann,"Pictures")
And dont miss Gromov's one and only, solo, and all 3 recitals of
Fillip Kopachevskiy, who should have won.
Dufus
Gerard
> On Aug 11, 5:53 pm, pianomaven <1pianoma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I have not heard a better or more interesting performance of
> > Stravinsky's Three pieces from Petroushka.
>
> I have. Brendel's.
Was that better or more interesting?
Gerard
Didn't they play poker?
laraine
I agree with most of your evaluation,
and as for the finalists:
Cho did fumble around, though he was
quite capable at concertos, but I
thought his Humoresque more effectively
Romantic than Son's. I didn't expect
him to get a top prize, though, and I think
it helps that he is so technically
excellent, as well as interpretatively
capable way beyond his age.
Son seems to me more of a modernist/20th
century player, though her Rach 3 showed
an emotional side, and she can interpret
Mozart. Her Barber, Debussy, and Godowsky
at the Cliburn, all on her CD, all had
spectacular sound and architecture. I'd
like to hear her do "La Valse".
She puts some real style in transcriptions,
and I liked the Feinberg-Tchaik. --good
ideas for programming too, though lacking
some interpretive difficulty perhaps.
Don't understand why Chernov is not
always liked. It seemed to me that he
played most pieces extremely well.
Perhaps his style sounds a bit heavy,
and gives the sense more of an academic
rather than a performer, but that can
be interesting too.
I felt Trifonov deserved his first prize,
though the special prize seemed a bit
much (was that voted on by the audience?)
His playing was gorgeous, solid, and the
difficult Russian sonatas were well
interpreted. Maybe the Mephisto wasn't
quite his thing.
I got a kick out of Romanovsky's playing
because it was so intricate and also
appealing, but he definitely had a few
problems that we've already discussed.
He is good at straight-ahead speed like
Wang.
C.
laraine
> On Aug 10, 6:59 pm, Dufus <steveha...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > She plays the ProPico # 2 at Proms Tuesday,August 16 :http://www.bbc.co.uk/proms/whats-on/2011/august-16/50'
>
> I shall listen, if I don’t forget, just to compare to Yeol Eum Son’s
> performance.
> [Here is her Silver Medal performance at the 2009 VCC:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFQIa4qNM0I
>
> Some have commented aversely on the physical movements. I ask them how
> do they think this 100 lb. gal could meet the requirements of the
> formidable Cadenza ET AL, without literally lifting/thrusting her
> body into the KB for the sounds demanded?
I think Son is fairly tall, so probably weighs
more than that.
>
> > She does seem less a banger than Buniatishvili.
>
> True – but she doesn’t have the latter’s Russian impetuosity and drama
> (which will be something when she stops the unerring flow of bloopers
> and 'overstatements' by cutting down the “edge” playing (obviously
> imitating Argerich, but failing).
> She could afford to swap two dollops of her technique with Trifonov
> for a dollop of his "tonal" sensitivity.
> [Equal bargaining]
>
> > BBC does not indicate what she'll be wearing. Although, for me, that
> > concerto has an orangish sound.
>
> More red to me. See Yeol Eum Son's performance above.
>
> Son, my favorite of the younger set (who should have won the Gold
> Medal at the recent Tchaikowski competition!) can be compared to the
> more popular (because of "looks"?) Wang in another work (Mozart-
> Volodos, Turkish March):
>
> Wang:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umEuJ76wUFc
>
> Son:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRQxJkh4RSI
>
> gc
I have heard both of those before, and although
it is a march, I personally prefer the easygoing
approach of Wang here. And if you really want
something over the top, listen to Volodos's
recording of it on his transcription album (-his
performance of it on YouTube not as spectacular,
IMO).
C.
herman
>
> I have heard both of those before, and although
> it is a march, I personally prefer the easygoing
> approach of Wang here. And if you really want
> something over the top, listen to Volodos's
> recording of it on his transcription album (-his
> performance of it on YouTube not as spectacular,
> IMO).
>
> C.
If you play Prokofiev II in such a manner as to make anyone think it's
"easygoing" you have a problem.
I wasn't bowled over by Son's interpretation either.
pianomaven
> On Aug 11, 8:47 pm, pianomaven <1pianoma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Aug 11, 8:21 pm, gereco <g...@gerriecollins.com> wrote:
> > > Son is a good student. No more, no less. The least you can say about
> > Trifonov -who also got the coveted Gold Medal, by the wa - is that he
> > will please the ladies in the audience what with all his poetic
> > swooning. i tired of it instantly. In Tel Aviv they are still
> > swooning.
>
> You are right about Trifonov, but here is one lady who is not wooed so
> flimsiily. While we’re on that subject, I shall never forget the
> clattering, ingénue-type response the audience gave Trifonov at EVERY
> thing he played, from his chock-full-of bloopers and UNcreative
> Mephisto to his “swooning” (good word, for him) over anything remotely
> kin to a poetic line. Maybe it’s because of his evocative “Blue Boy”
> image.
Interesting. MA is totally taken with Trifonov and has gone public
with her admiration, something like "I have never heard anything like
him!". So is NF who was in tears in Moscow.
> So far as your remark about Son being ‘just’ a good student (so the
> sun is now rising in the west?), about the best thing I can say at
> this late hour is, “this too shall pass.”
One hopes so. Someone as polished as she is should do well on the
circuit, at least for a few years.
> > I heard every note of the competition. No recollection of Son's
> > romantic piece(why should I not forget it if it was gorgettable?),
>
> [Was this a mental slip for "gorgeous"?
>
> Proof that you did not hear every note, because her singularly
> impressive interpretation and *Schumannesque Style” of the Humoresque
> should have imprinted on any serious listener’s ears.
Her Humoresque was pedestrian (was that the "romantic piece" you were
referring to? I thought you were talking about Liebestraum!!! Anyway,
it was pedestrian.
>
> > but thought her Kapustin was out of place and trashy
>
> Ah - because it was superior concert jazz, impressive pianistically,
> and ravishingly played? You "sound" like the *actions* of that
> initial audience in Paris for the historically and aurally supreme Le
> Sacre du Printemps
No, because it was trash and had no place at the Tchaikovsky
Competition.
>
> . Clearly you have
>
> > been taken with this woman for some time; hence the familiarity with
> > every little note and inflection.
>
> You bet! That’s why she occupies the position that she does in my
> evaluation of the young pianists contemporary scene. [But be
> appraised: she does not hold the summa cathedra here That will
> always belong to Evgeny Bozhanov, who should have won VCC 2009, AND
> Chopin International 2010.
There I agree with you completely.
TD
pianomaven
Correct.
He was also FURIOUS at the results.
If you have heard his CDs - and read the reviews of them - you will
know that this is some pianist. His playing at the competition was
brilliant technically, but others surpassed him from a musical
standpoint and went on to win top prizes.
TD
pianomaven
> On 12 août, 21:49, laraine <larai...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I have heard both of those before, and although
> > it is a march, I personally prefer the easygoing
> > approach of Wang here. And if you really want
> > something over the top, listen to Volodos's
> > recording of it on his transcription album (-his
> > performance of it on YouTube not as spectacular,
> > IMO).
>
> > C.
>
> If you play Prokofiev II in such a manner as to make anyone think it's
> "easygoing" you have a problem.
Not really. Bolet owned that concerto for a very long time and piled
Pelion on Ossa with the greatest of ease.
TD
John Wiser
On 12 ao�t, 21:49, laraine <larai...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I have heard both of those before, and although
>> it is a march, I personally prefer the easygoing
>> approach of Wang here. And if you really want
>> something over the top, listen to Volodos's
>> recording of it on his transcription album (-his
>> performance of it on YouTube not as spectacular,
>> IMO).
> If you play Prokofiev II in such a manner as to make anyone think it's
> "easygoing" you have a problem.
The problem is yours, Herman,
in the form of a compulsive scunner.
It's particularly comic when you fume about the effect
(on you) of the spectacle of a young female pianist
whose clothing, in the immortal phrase of George Ade
"fits her everywhere and all of the time."
As for what I read here from the piano competition fans,
there aren't enough grains of salt locally available.
JDW
gereco
> On Aug 11, 4:32 pm, gereco <g...@gerriecollins.com> wrote:
Mozart-Volodos, Turkish March:
> > Wang:
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umEuJ76wUFc
>
> > Son:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRQxJkh4RSI
>
> > gc
>
> I have heard both of those before, and although
> it is a march, I personally prefer the easygoing
> approach of Wang here.
"Easygoing"? I would not apply that description to Wang's playing,
mainly because I don't know what it means (and seems inapplicable to
this piece). There's not THAT much difference between the two, except
Son's has more style, sound, and bombastic vigor! And faster. [No
doubt she heard Volodos before programming it.]
> And if you really want
> something over the top, listen to Volodos's
> recording of it on his transcription album (-his
> performance of it on YouTube not as spectacular,
> IMO).
Laraine, I need NO introduction to Volodos, whose recording of this I
had heard YEARS before these gals attempted it. Plus hundreds of other
of his recorded gems. They can approach but never exceed his
blistering technique and facile grasp of style.
gc
Dufus
> Interesting. MA is totally taken with Trifonov and has gone public
> with her admiration, something like "I have never heard anything like
> him!". So is NF who was in tears in Moscow.
Interesting indeed since MA also went bonkers over mediocre 2010
Chopin winner Avdeeva. And not over Bozhanov. So her judgment is
questionable.
NF was in tears in because he was " exhausted" and left the jury after
the first round, hearing exactly one of Trifonov's performances, the
first. That recital consisted of few tear-jerkers, rather Scarlatti,
the Prokofieff 3rd Sonata, some overly sacchrine Tchaikovsky bon bons,
and a sloppy Liszt "Mephisto # 1" , which almost elicited tears from
me.
Dufus
pianomaven
Facile is the operative word here.
TD
laraine
> On Aug 12, 5:00 pm, pianomaven <1pianoma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Interesting. MA is totally taken with Trifonov and has gone public
> > with her admiration, something like "I have never heard anything like
> > him!". So is NF who was in tears in Moscow.
>
> Interesting indeed since MA also went bonkers over mediocre 2010
> Chopin winner Avdeeva. And not over Bozhanov. So her judgment is
> questionable.
She said Avdeeva was very good, and didn't wish
to question the outcome, but actually wished to
place Trifonov 1st and Bozhanov 2nd.
>
> NF was in tears in because he was " exhausted" and left the jury after
> the first round, hearing exactly one of Trifonov's performances, the
> first. That recital consisted of few tear-jerkers, rather Scarlatti,
> the Prokofieff 3rd Sonata, some overly sacchrine Tchaikovsky bon bons,
> and a sloppy Liszt "Mephisto # 1" , which almost elicited tears from
> me.
>
> Dufus
But tear-jerker is good!
C.
pianomaven
> On Aug 12, 5:00 pm, pianomaven <1pianoma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Interesting. MA is totally taken with Trifonov and has gone public
> > with her admiration, something like "I have never heard anything like
> > him!". So is NF who was in tears in Moscow.
>
> Interesting indeed since MA also went bonkers over mediocre 2010
> Chopin winner Avdeeva. And not over Bozhanov. So her judgment is
> questionable.
I think you will find that she marked Bozhanov VERY high. All the
marks have been posted, but after the fact someone went in a re-
decided the competition. It was a kind of scandal, actually.
> NF was in tears in because he was " exhausted" and left the jury after
> the first round, hearing exactly one of Trifonov's performances, the
> first. That recital consisted of few tear-jerkers, rather Scarlatti,
> the Prokofieff 3rd Sonata, some overly sacchrine Tchaikovsky bon bons,
> and a sloppy Liszt "Mephisto # 1" , which almost elicited tears from
> me.
I guess you're not on the same wave-length.
The boy can play the piano, no question about that, sloppy or not.
Tchaikovsky is ALWAYS sloppy, incidentally.
What bothers me is his at the piano mannerisms. They simply wear me
out.
TD
John Wiser
On Aug 12, 6:27 pm, gereco <g...@gerriecollins.com> wrote:
> On Aug 12, 2:49 pm, laraine <larai...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Laraine, I need NO introduction to Volodos, whose recording of this I
>> had heard YEARS before these gals attempted it. Plus hundreds of other
>> of his recorded gems. They can approach but never exceed his
>> blistering technique and facile grasp of style.
> Facile is the operative word here.
Just so! I was going to say it, but refrained,
since Tom needs the practice.
[insert emoticon of your choice here]
JDW
gereco
> On Aug 12, 1:26 am, gereco <g...@gerriecollins.com> wrote:
>
>
> Interesting. MA is totally taken with Trifonov and has gone public
> with her admiration, something like "I have never heard anything like
> him!". So is NF who was in tears in Moscow.
I guess it needs saying again: I do NOT base my opinions on someone
else's. no matter WHO they are. Learning to think for myself (in all
matters) was not an instantaneous accomplishment, but the 'battle
scars' in so doing I wear with pride. I also do not require anyone to
agree with my opinions.
Occasionally, I put them "out there" on music because there are some
"causes" that I feel the need to defend.
Argerich is the greatest pianist of the past 50 years, nay, the past
100, and I have been a fan/devotee since her playing (Liszt Sonata)
crossed my ears 30 years ago. She can genuflect before the Blue Boy
all she wants (probably influenced in this opinion by her good friend
Nelson Freire, who was singing his praises before he even played at
the Tchai.). Succumbing my opinion to hers would be like admiring a
particular au couture designer's creations AND attempting to wear
everything that designer herself wears, no matter that it does not
cater to 'my' particular physiognomy.
> Her Humoresque was pedestrian (was that the "romantic piece" you were
> referring to? I thought you were talking about Liebestraum!!!
Who the h played Liebestraume at the Tchai, XIV? Sounds like what the
Blue Boy would submit for his "romantic piece."
> Anyway, it was pedestrian.
Do not defile this stellar performance with such a hackneyed, mean-
nothing word.
> > > but thought her Kapustin was out of place and trashy
>
> > Ah - because it was superior concert jazz, impressive pianistically,
> > and ravishingly played? You "sound" like the *actions* of that
> > initial audience in Paris for the historically and aurally supreme Le
> > Sacre du Printemps
>
> No, because it was trash and had no place at the Tchaikovsky
> Competition.
You must be among the oldest living people on this planet. Anyone who
lived in AND had a functioning
brain during the middle to last part of the preceding century would
have - even if only a teensy-weensy bit - an awareness of the stellar
position of Jazz in the Musical Firmament. Ohh, but I forget: those
who do not know this and therefore relegate it with staunch snobbery
to a "lower class" of musical expression have my pity. How was this
said in biblical times: "Father, forgive them, for they know not what
they do." [Now what they understand!]
I am not in the mood for a music history/music STYLE lesson, but I
urge you to get an 'easy' start with things you *might* be more
familiar with, such as the Fugue of the Barber Sonata, Ravel's G Major
Concerto, Debussy's "Minstrels" and "Le petit negre",
some Shostakovich (including the Concerto for Trumpet and Piano),
Gershwin (need I name *anything*?), and even Beethoven, in that 3rd.
Var. of 111/II ! I have no doubt that every composer named in the
past sentence (and more!) would heap unparalleled praise on the truly
novel achievements of Kapustin and like peers today.
Undoubtedly, even with a thorough assimilation of the above and more,
you are "clearly" about 50 years away from an appreciation of the work
of Kapustin, and particularly his marvelous and ingeniously
constructed Piano Variations Op. 41. Just think how noted you will
be at 130, telling the "new" crop of snobs about this 'old' 20th
century way of writing and performing. [I'd advise making a recording
of Son's interpretation to keep for that seminar. I don't expect
that it will be exceeded.]
> > . Clearly you have been taken with this woman for some time; hence the familiarity with
> > > every little note and inflection.
>
> > You bet! That’s why she occupies the position that she does in my
> > evaluation of the young pianists contemporary scene. [But be
> > appraised: she does not hold the summa cathedra here That will
> > always belong to Evgeny Bozhanov, who should have won VCC 2009, AND
> > Chopin International 2010.
>
> There I agree with you completely.
Takes you a long time, doesn't it, before you've gotten the official
*messagio* from your respected gurus. Why didn't you join the number
of us who discovered him in 2009?
gc
pianomaven
> On Aug 12, 5:00 pm, pianomaven <1pianoma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Aug 12, 1:26 am, gereco <g...@gerriecollins.com> wrote:
>
> > Interesting. MA is totally taken with Trifonov and has gone public
> > with her admiration, something like "I have never heard anything like
> > him!". So is NF who was in tears in Moscow.
>
> I guess it needs saying again: I do NOT base my opinions on someone
> else's. no matter WHO they are. Learning to think for myself (in all
> matters) was not an instantaneous accomplishment, but the 'battle
> scars' in so doing I wear with pride.
I feel your pain and sympathise with your inadequacies.
I also do not require anyone to
> agree with my opinions.
I should hope not, as long as you recognize them as such and not
"facts".
> Occasionally, I put them "out there" on music because there are some
> "causes" that I feel the need to defend.
The cause in question being Mlle Son?
> Argerich is the greatest pianist of the past 50 years, nay, the past
> 100,
This is absurd hyperbole. Careful. You are destroying your credibility
by the sentence.
and I have been a fan/devotee since her playing (Liszt Sonata)
> crossed my ears 30 years ago. She can genuflect before the Blue Boy
> all she wants (probably influenced in this opinion by her good friend
> Nelson Freire, who was singing his praises before he even played at
> the Tchai.). Succumbing my opinion to hers would be like admiring a
> particular au couture designer's creations AND attempting to wear
> everything that designer herself wears, no matter that it does not
> cater to 'my' particular physiognomy.
>
> > Her Humoresque was pedestrian (was that the "romantic piece" you were
> > referring to? I thought you were talking about Liebestraum!!!
>
> Who the h played Liebestraume at the Tchai, XIV? Sounds like what the
> Blue Boy would submit for his "romantic piece."
>
> > Anyway, it was pedestrian.
>
> Do not defile this stellar performance with such a hackneyed, mean-
> nothing word.
I will do precisely that. So there! Suck it up.
> > > > but thought her Kapustin was out of place and trashy
>
> > > Ah - because it was superior concert jazz, impressive pianistically,
> > > and ravishingly played? You "sound" like the *actions* of that
> > > initial audience in Paris for the historically and aurally supreme Le
> > > Sacre du Printemps
>
> > No, because it was trash and had no place at the Tchaikovsky
> > Competition.
>
> You must be among the oldest living people on this planet.
Not really. I am currently enjoy a magical year and about to enter an
even more magical one.
Anyone who
> lived in AND had a functioning
> brain during the middle to last part of the preceding century would
> have - even if only a teensy-weensy bit - an awareness of the stellar
> position of Jazz in the Musical Firmament.
I love jazz. But Jazz has nothing to do with the Tchaikovsky
Competition.
There IS no discussion here. This, I am afraid, is simply a fact.
> > > . Clearly you have been taken with this woman for some time; hence the familiarity with
> > > > every little note and inflection.
>
> > > You bet! That’s why she occupies the position that she does in my
> > > evaluation of the young pianists contemporary scene. [But be
> > > appraised: she does not hold the summa cathedra here That will
> > > always belong to Evgeny Bozhanov, who should have won VCC 2009, AND
> > > Chopin International 2010.
>
> > There I agree with you completely.
>
> Takes you a long time, doesn't it, before you've gotten the official
> *messagio* from your respected gurus. Why didn't you join the number
> of us who discovered him in 2009?
I stopped listening to the Cliburn many moons ago. I think it was HCS
and his violation of the jury room which produced, wait for it, that
great pianist Andre Michel Schub, which did me in. Then RR's continued
support of that vindictive hack Darth Veda.
TD
laraine
> On Aug 12, 2:49 pm, laraine <larai...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Aug 11, 4:32 pm, gereco <g...@gerriecollins.com> wrote:
>
> Mozart-Volodos, Turkish March:
>
> > > Wang:
> > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umEuJ76wUFc
>
> > > Son:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRQxJkh4RSI
>
> > > gc
>
> > I have heard both of those before, and although
> > it is a march, I personally prefer the easygoing
> > approach of Wang here.
>
> "Easygoing"? I would not apply that description to Wang's playing,
> mainly because I don't know what it means (and seems inapplicable to
> this piece). There's not THAT much difference between the two, except
> Son's has more style, sound, and bombastic vigor! And faster. [No
> doubt she heard Volodos before programming it.]
Actually, I had been looking at a slightly
different Wang, but here's an even better
one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imrbjNXnfBE
Just watching that, I can't imagine
anyone playing such a thing.
Son does add a little interpretive flavor,
which she is good at, but I think there
were a few tiny tiny smears, which one
doesn't really hear in Wang.
Volodos's YouTube is better than I'd
remembered it --mostly he adds the
tremendous bass volume, which they don't
quite do.
C.
Dufus
>
> I think you will find that she marked Bozhanov VERY high. All the
> marks have been posted, but after the fact someone went in a re-
> decided the competition.
Yes, the Chopin jury did.
From the AP: " Martha Argerich, a past winner and member of the
jury, told The Associated Press the panel had been impressed by the
searching quality in Avdeeva's performance."
From the BBC News : " Martha Argerich, a past winner and member of the
jury, caller Ms Avdeeva a "harmonious artist".
She added: "I am extremely happy about Yulianna, and particularly
because she is the first woman after 45 years. After me there was no
lady, so I am very happy."
And apparently per you , NF made up his mind about Trifonov even
before NF even got to Moscow .
Dufus
laraine
I was talking about something else, but I
agree that Son's Prokofiev II and her Rach III
concertos were a bit 'easygoing', meaning maybe
not enough momentum and cohesion for me, but
she is so good at shaping and interpretation
that it makes up for it in some ways.
Her playing seemed more brilliant during
the solo part of the Tchaik, but I still
think some of her best playing was in
the Cliburn. She's one of the top female
players in the world anyway.
C.
Dufus
> I stopped listening to the Cliburn many moons ago.
2009 was the last for me. But then, same for the Chopin , which
recently produced Trifonov and Blechacz ; the 2010 QEB whose Russian
surfaced at the 2011 Lugano and barely got thru the Rachmaninoff 1st
Sonata ; and now the 2011 Moscow. All off my radar now. The likes of
Williams, Goerner, Fray, Wosner,
Biss,Grosvenor,Wass,McCawley,Piemontesi, Laloum, Moog, Angelich dont
seem to need the few big, mass media competition wins.
Peter T. Daniels
> On 12 août, 21:49, laraine <larai...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I have heard both of those before, and although
> > it is a march, I personally prefer the easygoing
> > approach of Wang here. And if you really want
> > something over the top, listen to Volodos's
> > recording of it on his transcription album (-his
> > performance of it on YouTube not as spectacular,
> > IMO).
>
> > C.
>
> If you play Prokofiev II in such a manner as to make anyone think it's
> "easygoing" you have a problem.
What ever happened to "Never let 'em see you sweat"?
gereco
> On Aug 12, 7:55 pm, gereco <g...@gerriecollins.com> wrote:
>
> I love jazz. But Jazz has nothing to do with the Tchaikovsky
> Competition.
You still fail to understand. This was not REAL jazz, which is
conpletely *improvisatory*., but Concert Jazz, fully conceived
beforehand and WRITTEN!
How else do you think that Son was able to play it in its strict
notated form - not with the utter freedom and improv associated with
genuine jazz??
Gershwin's concert jazz was a bit stricter and less 'free' than
Kapustin's, but IF his RinB and Concerto in F were a bit more
demanding technically, I'm sure they would turn up as Concerto
entrants in all the major competitions. I'd love to hear the Concerto
at one of these even though it is not a kuckle-buster, because it IS
a wonderful, tuneful, rhythmically stimulating work. It would sure
weed out the bar line stiffs from the freedom and hemiola-loving
syncopaters.
Get an education. Visit the French Quarter in New Orleans.
> There IS no discussion here. This, I am afraid, is simply a fact.
The fact is, the piece was admitted and if the powers-that-be at the
competition were as knowledgable as presumed, they KNEW - or looked up
- the work in question, and decided it was PERFECTLY acceptable.
Surely they had heard other jazzy works by this *Russian* composer??
> I stopped listening to the Cliburn many moons ago. I think it was HCS
> and his violation of the jury room which produced, wait for it, that
> great pianist Andre Michel Schub, which did me in. Then RR's continued
> support of that vindictive hack Darth Veda.
At least he hired ONE woman! The Chopin International of 2010 made
NEWS because they had THREE women out of TWELVE! THe Busoni
international has revealed their jurors for the upcoming competition:
seven men whose names I've never heard. Through no fault of theirs,
women of course have not been as numerous in the piano concertizing
field as men, but I rather guess this is due to their not "given"
admission to The Club.. {Wonder why this is?? Same old 'keep the
women barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen'?).
But why are not people like Christina Ortiz, Ingrid Haebler, Mitsuko
Uchida, Ruth Slenczynska, Helene Grimaud, Ilana Vered, and DOZENS of
other very fine concert pianists/pedagogues ever asked? It's just the
Old Boys Club all over again, but it's music this time - not politics.
gc
herman
>
> Argerich is the greatest pianist of the past 50 years, nay, the past
> 100, and I have been a fan/devotee since her playing (Liszt Sonata)
> crossed my ears 30 years ago.
If this is one of your hard-won opinions (even though you state it as
a fact), that is rather self-deflating.
Argerich obviously is a great pianist. I have no doubt she would
herself squirm in embarrassment at the gross simplification in your
statement.
herman
>
> > If you play Prokofiev II in such a manner as to make anyone think it's
> > "easygoing" you have a problem.
>
> What ever happened to "Never let 'em see you sweat"?
My comment has been misinterpreted by virtually everyone, so I guess I
said it badly.
I wasn't saying the interpreter ought to be sweating and writhing
about. I meant to say it should be performed as very dramatic music. I
thought that was lacking in Son's performance of the first mvt, in
which the huge cadenza somehow failed to provide an expressive
climax.
BTW I seem to remember TD coming up with that strange line "Bolet
owned the Prokofiev 2" again. No one "owns" any kind of music, as a
performer, obviously. People who say that mean to say they have
imprinted on one performance.
Allen
> On Aug 12, 7:18 pm, pianomaven<1pianoma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Aug 12, 7:55 pm, gereco<g...@gerriecollins.com> wrote:
>>
>
>> I love jazz. But Jazz has nothing to do with the Tchaikovsky
>> Competition.
>
>
> You still fail to understand. This was not REAL jazz, which is
> conpletely *improvisatory*., but Concert Jazz, fully conceived
> beforehand and WRITTEN!
> How else do you think that Son was able to play it in its strict
> notated form - not with the utter freedom and improv associated with
> genuine jazz??
> Gershwin's concert jazz was a bit stricter and less 'free' than
> Kapustin's, but IF his RinB and Concerto in F were a bit more
> demanding technically, I'm sure they would turn up as Concerto
> entrants in all the major competitions. I'd love to hear the Concerto
> at one of these even though it is not a kuckle-buster, because it IS
> a wonderful, tuneful, rhythmically stimulating work. It would sure
> weed out the bar line stiffs from the freedom and hemiola-loving
> syncopaters.
>
> Get an education. Visit the French Quarter in New Orleans.
>
about every note Gershwin wrote, and I love the Dixieland of N'Owleans.
One of my very pleasant irreproducable memories is a night at
Preservation Hall when one of the old originals (George Lewis) was still
playing. I've got to transfer my old Good Time Jazz 45s and LPs to CD.
Not the same style, but related, was ragtime, which my mother and her
sisters loved to play by ear at parties and family gatherings. My
father, who was new in town, was invited by a co-worker to go with him
to one of those parties, which were every Friday night and open to
anyone. My fathermet my mother that night and it was a true case of
double love at first sight. Both NO and ragtime were true music
expressing just what the players felt.
Allen
herman
>
> I am not in the mood for a music history/music STYLE lesson, but I
> urge you to get an 'easy' start with things you *might* be more
> familiar with, such as the Fugue of the Barber Sonata, Ravel's G Major
> Concerto, Debussy's "Minstrels" and "Le petit negre",
> some Shostakovich (including the Concerto for Trumpet and Piano),
> Gershwin (need I name *anything*?), and even Beethoven, in that 3rd.
> Var. of 111/II ! I have no doubt that every composer named in the
> past sentence (and more!) would heap unparalleled praise on the truly
> novel achievements of Kapustin and like peers today.
>
Well I do have doubts about that, especially if their praise is
supposed to be "unparalleled".
And really, to put Beethoven in this group of composers who tried to
parody jazz rhythms in their music, is plain silly.
pianomaven
> On Aug 12, 5:56 pm, pianomaven <1pianoma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I think you will find that she marked Bozhanov VERY high. All the
> > marks have been posted, but after the fact someone went in a re-
> > decided the competition.
>
> Yes, the Chopin jury did.
>
> From the AP: " Martha Argerich, a past winner and member of the
> jury, told The Associated Press the panel had been impressed by the
> searching quality in Avdeeva's performance."
>
> From the BBC News : " Martha Argerich, a past winner and member of the
> jury, caller Ms Avdeeva a "harmonious artist".
> She added: "I am extremely happy about Yulianna, and particularly
> because she is the first woman after 45 years. After me there was no
> lady, so I am very happy."
This is the fig-leaf that the Chopin Competition put on things and MA
went along with it.
> And apparently per you , NF made up his mind about Trifonov even
> before NF even got to Moscow .
I never made such a statement. Only that he was in tears after hearing
him play.
TD
pianomaven
Hmmmmmm.
How many of those "female players" are you speaking of? And how many
have you heard?
TD
pianomaven
Not for want of trying, of course.
MAH never won a competition.
Ashkenazy won several.
TD
pianomaven
> On Aug 12, 7:18 pm, pianomaven <1pianoma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Aug 12, 7:55 pm, gereco <g...@gerriecollins.com> wrote:
>
> > I love jazz. But Jazz has nothing to do with the Tchaikovsky
> > Competition.
>
> You still fail to understand. This was not REAL jazz, which is
> conpletely *improvisatory*., but Concert Jazz, fully conceived
> beforehand and WRITTEN!
I know that. Makes it even more dubious.
> How else do you think that Son was able to play it in its strict
> notated form - not with the utter freedom and improv associated with
> genuine jazz??
Sorry you seem to take me for the village idiot, but you don't really
make yourself look very bright in this discussion, you know.
> Get an education. Visit the French Quarter in New Orleans.
Been there, done that, bought the tee-shirt. A vile place.
> > There IS no discussion here. This, I am afraid, is simply a fact.
>
> The fact is, the piece was admitted and if the powers-that-be at the
> competition were as knowledgable as presumed, they KNEW - or looked up
> - the work in question, and decided it was PERFECTLY acceptable.
> Surely they had heard other jazzy works by this *Russian* composer??
>
> > I stopped listening to the Cliburn many moons ago. I think it was HCS
> > and his violation of the jury room which produced, wait for it, that
> > great pianist Andre Michel Schub, which did me in. Then RR's continued
> > support of that vindictive hack Darth Veda.
>
> At least he hired ONE woman!
Is that what she is?
> But why are not people like Christina Ortiz, Ingrid Haebler, Mitsuko
> Uchida, Ruth Slenczynska, Helene Grimaud, Ilana Vered, and DOZENS of
> other very fine concert pianists/pedagogues ever asked? It's just the
> Old Boys Club all over again, but it's music this time - not politics.
Many don't want to join juries. An ungrateful task at the best of
times.
Funny how my loss of faith with the Van Cliburn Competition has been
turned into a discussion of feminism by our Our Floridian Maiden.
So very typical, I am afraid. Lucky she isn't serving on juries
herself; she would give the prize to any hag that showed up to play.
TD
pianomaven
She would reject it out of hand.
TD
pianomaven
I think you have never heard Bolet play this piece either live or on
record during the period in question.
TD
pianomaven
Just one among many silly statements that flowed from this same
poster.
TD
Dufus
> I think you have never heard Bolet play this piece either live or on
> record during the period in question.
>
The Bolet ProPico # 2 is at YT, "complete" with the cut in the first
mov. cadenza.
Dufus
> This is the fig-leaf that the Chopin Competition put on things and MA
> went along with it.
>
You know her, I dont, but seems very unlike Martha to acquiesce ? Even
for Harasiewicz.
Freire was also on the Warsaw jury.
Is Darth Veda still on the TCU ( at Foat Wuth ) faculty ?
In any event, all here should listen to the Tchaikovsky archives of
the solo recitals of Gromov and Kopachevskiy, for some really
interesting playing.
Dufus
Gerard
Maybe you mean all in rec.music.classical.competitions should.
JohnGavin
>
> > On Aug 12, 1:26 am, gereco <g...@gerriecollins.com> wrote:
>
> > Interesting. MA is totally taken with Trifonov and has gone public
> > w
>
> 100,
Are you serious? I find with most of her recordings that after I'm
done admiring her reflexes and keyboard prowess, I begin to feel that
she slaps alot of music around rather than play it.
Argerich is not the greatest precisely because the music must fit her
particular persona in order to be a perfect match, and only a minority
of what she plays is a perfect match.
I gave up on her Chopin Preludes after a few hearings - her Liszt
Sonata is very good, ditto Strauss Burlesque - she's good at
Prokofiev, as are many others. For Ravel I turn to others.
Then there's the fact that she cut short her solo recital career a
while ago..........
Not the greatest for me at all.
pianomaven
> On Aug 13, 4:57 am, pianomaven <1pianoma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > This is the fig-leaf that the Chopin Competition put on things and MA
> > went along with it.
>
> You know her, I dont, but seems very unlike Martha to acquiesce ?
Yes, you don't know her.
> Even for Harasiewicz.
> Freire was also on the Warsaw jury.
So?
>
> Is Darth Veda still on the TCU ( at Foat Wuth ) faculty ?
No idea.
But her remarks after the AR Competition should bar her from further
adjudicating.
TD
herman
So, according to TD, Jorge Bolet "owns" Prokofiev nr 2. Even though he
drops one of the most significant parts of the music?
I'm certain Tom will be able to explain this. But I'm making this post
nr 100
bassppn
> "pianomaven" <1pianoma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> > On Aug 12, 2:49 pm, laraine <larai...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> Laraine, I need NO introduction to Volodos, whose recording of this I
> >> had heard YEARS before these gals attempted it. Plus hundreds of other
> >> of his recorded gems. They can approach but never exceed his
> >> blistering technique and facile grasp of style.
>
> Just so! I was going to say it, but refrained,
> since Tom needs the practice.
> [insert emoticon of your choice here]
>
> JDW
why are we not talking about Grosvenor who has far more talent than
any of the above????
AB
Dufus
> But her remarks after the AR Competition should bar her from further
> adjudicating.
>
Yes, she had unkind things to say about your favorite , Fukuma.
And also others. I agree with you, very poor judgment to say such
things to the press:
http://www.arims.org.il/competition2011/pages/english/the_press.php?date_week=5
Dufus
Gerard
Why talking about talents and not about recordings?
gereco
> On 13 août, 01:55, gereco <g...@gerriecollins.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Argerich is the greatest pianist of the past 50 years, nay, the past
> > 100, and I have been a fan/devotee since her playing (Liszt Sonata)
> > crossed my ears 30 years ago.
>
> If this is one of your hard-won opinions (even though you state it as
> a fact), that is rather self-deflating.
Sorry, I don’t know what a “hard-won” opinion is. It is MY opinion
but alas, but this one especially seems to arouse inordinate fear, as
if by some universal accord it could be true.
> Argerich obviously is a great pianist. I have no doubt she would
> herself squirm in embarrassment at the gross simplification in your
> statement.
Natural instincts in the ego realm I find are even more acute in the
professionals area, but omnipresent PR teaches them to keep it
concealed. “Squirming” in your perception could, unknownst to you,
be a practiced reaction.
gc