Best composers: a different view [re:]

[Crooser]

'da best:

Mideivel: Josquin (Dufay?)
Renaisance Dowland
Baroque: J.S. Bach (Corelli, under-appreciated)
Classical: Mozart
Early Romantic: Beethoven (Schubert)
Middle Romantic: Mendelsohn (Schumann, close)
Late Romantic: Mahler (R.Strauss)
Impressionism: Ravel
20th century: Stravinsky
Contempory: John Adams
Opera: Puccini

[qpc...@frontiernet.net]

In article <53cenu$p...@dfw-ixnews11.ix.netcom.com>, cro...@ix.netcom.com(Crooser) writes:>'da best:>>Impressionism: RavelRavel was *not* an 'impressionist'!- Chloe

[mvs...@vms.cis.pitt.edu]

In article <53dlek$s...@cheatum.frontiernet.net>, qpc...@frontiernet.net writes:
> Ravel was *not* an 'impressionist'!- Chloe

I was wondering about that. Ravel did rip off a good deal of Debussy, didn't he?
Can someone enlighten me on what the stylistic and historical definitions of
impressionism in music are?

Michael

[Mike Coldewey]

> Ravel was *not* an 'impressionist'!- Chloe

What do you mean?
I *shouldn't* call him an impressionist?

Books and program notes that refer to his music as impressionistic are
wrong?
He didn't call himself an impressionist? (Although Mozart didn't call
himself a "classical period" composer, either, and Wagner didn't call
himself a ... whoops, better not go there! <grin>).

Do you mean that his music wasn't impressionistic? "Jeux d'eaux" isn't
impressionstic? (I bet it isn't spelled right either!)

What I learned, and what I have taught, was that there is a style of
music known as "impressionistic" music; that the two most famous
composers associated with this music are Debussy and Ravel; that the
music of those two composers has at least superficial similarities; that
the musical styles of the two were really quite different in many ways;
and that a more accurate term, if needed, for Ravel would be a
"neoclassical composer".

Or is there something I am missing? If, in general, descriptions of
Ravel and his music as "impressionistic" mean anything, are you
basically saying that any such descriptions are just wrong and/or
meaningless? Because in my experience, many people have used this as a
meaningful descriptive adjective for the music and the style.

What do you mean?

Mike

[Tonality is the basis of all rational thought]

In a previous article, mvs...@vms.cis.pitt.edu wrote:
->In article <53dlek$s...@cheatum.frontiernet.net>, qpc...@frontiernet.net writes:
->> Ravel was *not* an 'impressionist'!- Chloe
->
->I was wondering about that. Ravel did rip off a good deal of Debussy, didn't he?
->Can someone enlighten me on what the stylistic and historical definitions of
->impressionism in music are?
->
->Michael

Check out Watkin's _Soundings_ and the chapters on Ravel. Yes, their styles
were somewhat similar, but personally I find Ravel the better of the two
composers. I don't remember what Watkins writes, but I'm sure that any good
library would have the book.

kP

Keith Preble
music major
Clark University
kpr...@vax.clarku.edu

[Lionel Tacchini]

This thread is getting more and more interesting and on the mark
the more we subdivise ...

I'll have another try :

Best Dufay composer : Guillaume
Best Bach composer : J.S
Best Mozart composer : Wolfy
Best van Beethoven composer : Ludwig
Best Strauss composer : Richard
Best Brahms composer : Johannes

I could go on an on ...

[Laurent Planchon - Anacad]

Lionel Tacchini (l...@anacad.de) wrote:

: This thread is getting more and more interesting and on the mark

: the more we subdivise ...

: I'll have another try :

: Best Dufay composer : Guillaume
: Best Bach composer : J.S
: Best Mozart composer : Wolfy
: Best van Beethoven composer : Ludwig
: Best Strauss composer : Richard
: Best Brahms composer : Johannes

: I could go on an on ...

I am afraid, this is not entirely correct. You made some mistakes like :

The best Strauss composer is obviously Johann and not Richard, and there
is not doubt that C.P.E was a greater Bach composer (although not everybody
will agree with this statement since some may believe that W.F was the
greatest)

Laurent Planchon
<laur...@mentorg.com>

[Bradford Kellogg]

Ravel did not rip off Debussy by any stretch of the imagination. The two
are stylistically very distinct. They lived in the same culture at the same
time, so it should not be too surprising their music overlaps here and there.
You will also hear overlaps in the music of numerous other French composers
around that time: Chabrier, Faure, Poulenc, Satie... but they are all quite
distinguishable.

Debussy himself rejected the label of "impressionist". The impressionist
movement was essentially in the visual arts. Whether or not this label
should be applied to music in France at that time is the source of some
debate. I can see what I think are parallels, but I suspect much of this
is the result of the power of suggestion.
---
__
\ \
\ \ _
Bradford Kellogg \_\ ( ) There is nothing, absolutely nothing,
kel...@atb.teradyne.com \ / \ half so worth doing as simply messing
_______________\/___)_____________ about in boats.
\ \ /
~~~~~~~~~~~~`~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\~~~~~~~~~~~~~~'~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Christiane Schiemann]

: Check out Watkin's _Soundings_ and the chapters on Ravel. Yes, their styles

: were somewhat similar, but personally I find Ravel the better of the two
: composers. I don't remember what Watkins writes, but I'm sure that any good
: library would have the book.

: kP

: Keith Preble
: music major
: Clark University
: kpr...@vax.clarku.edu

hi keith,

which book are you talking of? i'm writing about french flute music at the
beginning of the century. the french literature i'm reading at the moment
does not really take me any further. mayby your book will do?

thanks,

janne.

Desinamus, quod voluimus, velle!
csch...@rz.uni-hildesheim.de

[Jose Oscar Marques]

Mike Coldewey <mcol...@asset-intertech.com> wrote:

>What I learned, and what I have taught, was that there is a style of
>music known as "impressionistic" music; that the two most famous
>composers associated with this music are Debussy and Ravel;

Impressionism is the name of a school of painting. I believe Debussy
didn't like to have his music called impressionistic. Ravel's music is
quite different from Debussy's and there is still less reason to call
it so.

--
Jose Oscar Marques
jmar...@super.zippo.com