Pieces in unusual meters
jim...@fi.edu
or 5/4? The most familiar piece I can think of is the scherzo of
Borodin's 3rd symphony, in 5/4. I don't mean works which shift meter
frequently and are in 7/8 for three bars or whatnot, but a work/
movement/etc which in recognizably _in_ such a meter for a long time.
Thanks,
Jim
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Gary Goldberg
> Are there any famous (or at least not-obscure) pieces in meters like 7/8
> or 5/4? The most familiar piece I can think of is the scherzo of
> Borodin's 3rd symphony, in 5/4. I don't mean works which shift meter
> frequently and are in 7/8 for three bars or whatnot, but a work/
> movement/etc which in recognizably _in_ such a meter for a long time.
The finale of Prokofiev's 7th Piano Sonata is entirely in 7/8 (three
themes!). And, I believe, most, if not all, of the finale of Barber's
Piano Concerto is in 5/4.
Then there's P.D.Q. Bach (Schickele)'s imaginary time signatures in his book!
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Neal
jim...@fi.edu wrote in message <7s35lf$v17$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>Are there any famous (or at least not-obscure) pieces in meters like 7/8
>or 5/4? The most familiar piece I can think of is the scherzo of
>Borodin's 3rd symphony, in 5/4. I don't mean works which shift meter
>frequently and are in 7/8 for three bars or whatnot, but a work/
>movement/etc which in recognizably _in_ such a meter for a long time.
>
Dave Gomberg
> Are there any famous (or at least not-obscure) pieces in meters like 7/8
> or 5/4? The most familiar piece I can think of is the scherzo of
> Borodin's 3rd symphony, in 5/4. I don't mean works which shift meter
> frequently and are in 7/8 for three bars or whatnot, but a work/
> movement/etc which in recognizably _in_ such a meter for a long time.
Well, the piece is undeservingly rather obscure, even though the composer
is not. I just got a recording (Erol 97002) of music by Jean Francaix,
including excerpts from an early ballet, his Symphonie in G, and his
first Violin Concerto. The concerto is in four movements all of which
are in quintuple meter. (The first movement is nominally in 5/4, but it
would more properly be written as 3+2/4.) Entirely aside from the unusual
meters, this is a wonderful work. Why it has been ignored is beyond me.
The performance on this recording, by a Japanese violinist living in
France, Yuriko Naganuma, is also undeservingly unknown (at least to me).
Dave Gomberg
Abelard2
>Are there any famous (or at least not-obscure) pieces in meters like 7/8
>or 5/4? The most familiar piece I can think of is the scherzo of
>Borodin's 3rd symphony, in 5/4. I don't mean works which shift meter
>frequently and are in 7/8 for three bars or whatnot, but a work/
>movement/etc which in recognizably _in_ such a meter for a long time.
>
The finale of Dohnanyi's 1st Piano quintet begins and ends in 5/4, although it
makes frequent excursions into six. Another poster mentioned the Barber Violin
Concerto finale -- I haven't seen the score, but my ear tells me that there is
a grab-bag assortment of meters there.
abelard2
the Davidsbündler site
http://members.aol.com/abelard2/dave.htm
Gail Mrozak
>
> Are there any famous (or at least not-obscure) pieces in meters like 7/8
> or 5/4? The most familiar piece I can think of is the scherzo of
> Borodin's 3rd symphony, in 5/4. I don't mean works which shift meter
> frequently and are in 7/8 for three bars or whatnot, but a work/
> movement/etc which in recognizably _in_ such a meter for a long time.
Jim, If I remember correctly, "Mars" from Holst's Planets is in 5/4.
Also, Bernstein's Chichester Psalms....nearly all of the first movement
(except for the opening bars) is in 7/4, and the third movement from the
choir entrance until the last 2 pages is 10/4 (which even the score
subdivides with a dotted bar line into 5/4 measures). My choir sang
this last spring, so it's fresh in my memory.
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or you won't get PAID tonight!"
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CONSTANTIN MARCOU
jim...@fi.edu wrote:
> Are there any famous (or at least not-obscure) pieces in meters like 7/8
> or 5/4? The most familiar piece I can think of is the scherzo of
> Borodin's 3rd symphony, in 5/4. I don't mean works which shift meter
> frequently and are in 7/8 for three bars or whatnot, but a work/
> movement/etc which in recognizably _in_ such a meter for a long time.
>
> Thanks,
Isn't the Waltz movement of Tchaikovsky's 6th symphony in 5/4 (I can't
check: I don't have a score.)
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Zero the Hero
> jim...@fi.edu wrote:
>>
>> Are there any famous (or at least not-obscure) pieces in meters like 7/8
>> or 5/4? The most familiar piece I can think of is the scherzo of
>> Borodin's 3rd symphony, in 5/4. I don't mean works which shift meter
>> frequently and are in 7/8 for three bars or whatnot, but a work/
>> movement/etc which in recognizably _in_ such a meter for a long time.
> Jim, If I remember correctly, "Mars" from Holst's Planets is in 5/4.
As is the 'Neptune' movement (though it's not as famous).
The 'Promenade' theme from Moussorgsky's 'Pictures at an Exhibition'
alternates between 6 and 5 (or is it 5 and 6?). At any rate, you could
call it 11.
Jason
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Abram Plum
>
> Are there any famous (or at least not-obscure) pieces in meters like 7/8
> or 5/4? The most familiar piece I can think of is the scherzo of
> Borodin's 3rd symphony, in 5/4. I don't mean works which shift meter
> frequently and are in 7/8 for three bars or whatnot, but a work/
> movement/etc which in recognizably _in_ such a meter for a long time.
>
piano sonatas being in 5/4.
Abram Plum
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David S. Phipps
CONSTANTIN MARCOU <conm...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:37E544A6...@earthlink.net...
> Isn't the Waltz movement of Tchaikovsky's 6th symphony in 5/4 (I can't
> check: I don't have a score.)
Yes, it is.
In addition, most of Rimsky-Korsakov's Russian Easter Overture is in either
5/4 or 6/4, depending on which part your on. Also Copland's El Salon Mexico
changes meters about as often as you can breathe.
David Phipps
Hobbs, NM, USA
Frank Eggleston
>
> In article <7s35lf$v17$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, jim...@fi.edu wrote:
>
> > Are there any famous (or at least not-obscure) pieces in meters like 7/8
> > or 5/4? The most familiar piece I can think of is the scherzo of
> > Borodin's 3rd symphony, in 5/4. I don't mean works which shift meter
> > frequently and are in 7/8 for three bars or whatnot, but a work/
> > movement/etc which in recognizably _in_ such a meter for a long time.
>
> themes!). And, I believe, most, if not all, of the finale of Barber's
> Piano Concerto is in 5/4.
>
> Then there's P.D.Q. Bach (Schickele)'s imaginary time signatures in his book!
>
Frank E
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Frank Eggleston
>
> Are there any famous (or at least not-obscure) pieces in meters like 7/8
> or 5/4? The most familiar piece I can think of is the scherzo of
> Borodin's 3rd symphony, in 5/4. I don't mean works which shift meter
> frequently and are in 7/8 for three bars or whatnot, but a work/
> movement/etc which in recognizably _in_ such a meter for a long time.
>
The scherzo of the Tchaikovsky Sixth is in 5/4, as is (most of) the
Danse Generale of Ravel's "Daphnis & Chloe". I think the New Dance of
Wallingford Riegger is in 7/4, as is the Tango (?) of Walter Piston's
"Incredible Flutist". (Not as sure of those last two)
Franl E
Frank Eggleston
>
> jim...@fi.edu wrote:
> >
> > Are there any famous (or at least not-obscure) pieces in meters like 7/8
> > or 5/4? The most familiar piece I can think of is the scherzo of
> > Borodin's 3rd symphony, in 5/4. I don't mean works which shift meter
> > frequently and are in 7/8 for three bars or whatnot, but a work/
> > movement/etc which in recognizably _in_ such a meter for a long time.
>
With occasional lapses into 5/2. "Neptune" is also in a very slow 5/4.
>
> Also, Bernstein's Chichester Psalms....nearly all of the first movement
> (except for the opening bars) is in 7/4, and the third movement from the
> choir entrance until the last 2 pages is 10/4 (which even the score
> subdivides with a dotted bar line into 5/4 measures). My choir sang
> this last spring, so it's fresh in my memory.
>
Frank E
Frank Eggleston
As does the "Danse Sacrale" of the "Sacre du Printemps" of Stravinsky.
In both versions, although the notations are somewhat different.
Brett Langston
from jim...@fi.edu contains these words:
> Are there any famous (or at least not-obscure) pieces in meters like 7/8
> or 5/4? The most familiar piece I can think of is the scherzo of
> Borodin's 3rd symphony, in 5/4. I don't mean works which shift meter
> frequently and are in 7/8 for three bars or whatnot, but a work/
> movement/etc which in recognizably _in_ such a meter for a long time.
The 2nd movement of Tchaikovsky's Pathetique symphony is in 5/4.
Hope this helps,
Brett Langston
The Tchaikovsky Web Catalogue
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/blangston/pitch/
RichieM2
Amanda Frances Bankier
: Are there any famous (or at least not-obscure) pieces in meters like 7/8
: or 5/4? The most familiar piece I can think of is the scherzo of
: Borodin's 3rd symphony, in 5/4. I don't mean works which shift meter
: frequently and are in 7/8 for three bars or whatnot, but a work/
: movement/etc which in recognizably _in_ such a meter for a long time.
: Thanks,
: Jim
The Mars movement of Holst's The Planets is in 5 --- a really inspired
way to make a march as insane as the worst of war. Also, in Britten's
Rejoice in the Lamb, the section starting with the following words is in 7:
"Let Nimrod, the mighty hunter
Bind a leopard to the altar
And dedicate his spear to the Lord.
(There are some more verses. I'm not absolutely certain there are no
changes of metre in this one, though.)
--
Amanda Bankier
cx...@torfree.net
JohnLFryer
1. "Slow" movement of Symphony no 6 (Tchaik.)
2. Pantomime from El Amor Brujo (de Falla)
3. Finale from String 4tet (Ravel)
Generally, tho', the time sigs. you mention are used just occasionally in a
piece, to, as it were, displace the general pulse of the music. Stravinsky
uses these unusual time sigs as part of the rhythmic structure in his music, as
do other composers who follow his example.
regards
John L Fryer
vertigo
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Allan Jones
>Stravinsky uses these unusual time sigs as part of the rhythmic >structure in his music, as do other composers who follow his example.
I seem to recall that there's a movement of Berlioz's L'Enfance du
Christ that's in 5 or 7.
Allan Jones
remove 'z' for real email
Abelard2
jim...@fi.edu asks:
>Are there any famous (or at least not-obscure) pieces in meters like 7/8
>or 5/4? The most familiar piece I can think of is the scherzo of
>Borodin's 3rd symphony, in 5/4. I don't mean works which shift meter
>frequently and are in 7/8 for three bars or whatnot, but a work/
>movement/etc which in recognizably _in_ such a meter for a long time.
I neglected to mention the earliest example I know of: a flute quartet by
Beethoven's friend, Antonin Rejcha (or as the Germans called him, Anton
Reicha), in which there is a slow movement in 5/4.
Thomas J. Wood
jim...@fi.edu wrote:
> Are there any famous (or at least not-obscure) pieces in meters like 7/8
> or 5/4? The most familiar piece I can think of is the scherzo of
> Borodin's 3rd symphony, in 5/4. I don't mean works which shift meter
> frequently and are in 7/8 for three bars or whatnot, but a work/
> movement/etc which in recognizably _in_ such a meter for a long time.
>
>
Then there are those pieces like some preludes by Louis Couperin, and
fantasias by C.P.E. Bach, that are in no meter whatsover (no barlines even).
--
Tom Wood
Mark Starr
Chaikowski Pathetique, II; 5/4
Bernstein, Divertimento--there's a movement in seven
Albeniz, Zorzico, 5/4
Alkan, Zorzico, 5/4
FlutemanTB
The intro and recapitulatory interlude is in 5/2
T.D.B.
Florida
U.S.
FlutemanTB
the intro and the recapitulatory interlude of the Rimsky-Korsacov is in 5/2
FlutemanTB
>5/4 or 6/4, depending on which part your on.
the intro and recapitulatory interlude of the rimsky-korsakov are in 5/2
Derek Haslam
Abram Plum <amp...@dave-world.net> wrote:
> jim...@fi.edu wrote:
> >
> > Are there any famous (or at least not-obscure) pieces in meters like 7/8
> > or 5/4? The most familiar piece I can think of is the scherzo of
> > Borodin's 3rd symphony, in 5/4. I don't mean works which shift meter
> > frequently and are in 7/8 for three bars or whatnot, but a work/
> > movement/etc which in recognizably _in_ such a meter for a long time.
> >
> piano sonatas being in 5/4.
> Abram Plum
I seem to remember reading that Arensky was especially fond of writing
whole movements in 5/4. I don't know any of his music though.
Derek Haslam
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David S. Phipps
FlutemanTB <flute...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990920160522...@ng-bj1.aol.com...
> >most of Rimsky-Korsakov's Russian Easter Overture is in either
> >5/4 or 6/4, depending on which part your on.
>
5/2
Pardez Mois..............
David S. Phipps
> >In addition, most of Rimsky-Korsakov's Russian Easter Overture is in
either
> >5/4 or 6/4, depending on which part your on.
>
Pardez Mois......................
And how many times does this reply appear in this thread?
Adrian Hunter
>
> What about the tango passage in the Brahms 4th?
>
> --
There's no unusual metrical scheme anywhere in the 4th, although
I think there's a song or two by Brahms in 5/4, but I can't
recall which at the moment. The Variations on a Hungarian Song
does a lot of alternating 3/4 and 4/4 (hiding the "real" 7/4).
Adrian
Adrian Hunter
>
> In article <37E507...@dave-world.net>,
> Abram Plum <amp...@dave-world.net> wrote:
> > jim...@fi.edu wrote:
> > >
> > > Are there any famous (or at least not-obscure) pieces in meters like 7/8
> > > or 5/4? The most familiar piece I can think of is the scherzo of
> > > Borodin's 3rd symphony, in 5/4. I don't mean works which shift meter
> > > frequently and are in 7/8 for three bars or whatnot, but a work/
> > > movement/etc which in recognizably _in_ such a meter for a long time.
> > >
> > I vaguely remember one movement in one of the lesser known Clementi
> > piano sonatas being in 5/4.
>
> > Abram Plum
>
> I seem to remember reading that Arensky was especially fond of writing
> whole movements in 5/4. I don't know any of his music though.
>
> Derek Haslam
The first movement of his Piano Concerto (or, if he wrote more
than one, it's the one that can be found on Hyperion's Romantic
PC series) for example. (or was it the finale....my memory is
failing me at the moment!)
Adrian
Adrian Hunter
>
> jim...@fi.edu wrote:
> >
> > Are there any famous (or at least not-obscure) pieces in meters like 7/8
> > or 5/4? The most familiar piece I can think of is the scherzo of
> > Borodin's 3rd symphony, in 5/4. I don't mean works which shift meter
> > frequently and are in 7/8 for three bars or whatnot, but a work/
> > movement/etc which in recognizably _in_ such a meter for a long time.
> >
>
> Danse Generale of Ravel's "Daphnis & Chloe". I think the New Dance of
> Wallingford Riegger is in 7/4, as is the Tango (?) of Walter Piston's
> "Incredible Flutist". (Not as sure of those last two)
>
> Franl E
Are you sure about the tchaik. 6? I thought it was a mix of 12/8
and 4/4. (Nope, I don't have a score, but I'm pretty sure about
this!)
IIRC, the Ravel example has a lot of triplet writing, so it could
be conceived, in part, as "really" in 15/8. Whic reminds me,
Bourgeois "Serenade" (which was written as a bridal march!) is in
13/8 predominantly, but moves also to other odd metres.
The Symphonie-Passion of Marcel Dupre opens in 7/8 (again no
score and no disc to hand, so I might have my 5's and 7's mixed
up).
The excellent finale of Tubin 7 is in 5/2, and I think #8/mvt 2
is in 5/8 or 5/4.
Adrian
Richard Schultz
: Are you sure about the tchaik. 6? I thought it was a mix of 12/8
: and 4/4. (Nope, I don't have a score, but I'm pretty sure about
: this!)
You're wrong -- the second movement of Tchaikovsky's 6th symphony
is in 5/4.
: IIRC, the Ravel example has a lot of triplet writing, so it could
: be conceived, in part, as "really" in 15/8.
Which reminds me -- the second movement of Debussy's "Nocturnes"
has a long section in 5/4 as well.
-----
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Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel fax: 972-3-535-1250
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Diane Wilson
johnl...@aol.comnogo says...
>
> Generally, tho', the time sigs. you mention are used just occasionally in a
> uses these unusual time sigs as part of the rhythmic structure in his music, as
> do other composers who follow his example.
One that comes to mind from experience is the Bartok piano sonata,
which constantly changes time signature in all three movements.
Although the changes are frequent everywhere, there are parts of
the last movement where they tend to come every measure, dancing
about between 3/8, 5/8, 7/8, 11/8, and several others.
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question anything. (Joseph Heller)
Derek Haslam
Adrian Hunter <adrian...@ed.ac.uk> wrote:
> > The scherzo of the Tchaikovsky Sixth is in 5/4, as is (most of) the
> > Danse Generale of Ravel's "Daphnis & Chloe". I think the New Dance of
> > Wallingford Riegger is in 7/4, as is the Tango (?) of Walter Piston's
> > "Incredible Flutist". (Not as sure of those last two)
> >
> > Franl E
> Are you sure about the tchaik. 6? I thought it was a mix of 12/8
> and 4/4. (Nope, I don't have a score, but I'm pretty sure about
> this!)
I think the word "scherzo" is causing confusion here. It's the *third*
movement which is scherzo-ish. It's in 12/8 grouped as 3,3,3,3 producing a
combination of vigorous march and scurrying scherzo. The second movement,
despite it's indisputably waltz-like character, is in 5/4.
Frank Eggleston
>
> In article <37E75B62...@ed.ac.uk>,
> Adrian Hunter <adrian...@ed.ac.uk> wrote:
> > > The scherzo of the Tchaikovsky Sixth is in 5/4, as is (most of) the
> > > Danse Generale of Ravel's "Daphnis & Chloe". I think the New Dance of
> > > Wallingford Riegger is in 7/4, as is the Tango (?) of Walter Piston's
> > > "Incredible Flutist". (Not as sure of those last two)
> > >
> > > Franl E
>
> > Are you sure about the tchaik. 6? I thought it was a mix of 12/8
> > and 4/4. (Nope, I don't have a score, but I'm pretty sure about
> > this!)
>
> I think the word "scherzo" is causing confusion here. It's the *third*
> movement which is scherzo-ish. It's in 12/8 grouped as 3,3,3,3 producing a
> combination of vigorous march and scurrying scherzo. The second movement,
> despite it's indisputably waltz-like character, is in 5/4.
>
> Derek Haslam
>
for a dance movement, and thought "scherzo", without considering that
the third movement was more scherzo-like (although I think of it as a
brilliant march movement -- notated, BTW, as "C(12/8)").
Neal Sigda
Someone (Khachaturian?) wrote some Armenian Dances in some really wild
meters. Can anyone remember?
Neal
Adrian Hunter wrote in message <37E75B62...@ed.ac.uk>...
Adrian Hunter
>
> Adrian Hunter (adrian...@ed.ac.uk) wrote:
>
> : Are you sure about the tchaik. 6? I thought it was a mix of 12/8
> : and 4/4. (Nope, I don't have a score, but I'm pretty sure about
> : this!)
>
> is in 5/4.
Sorry, but I was thinking of the 3rd mvt. Frank did say
"scherzo".
To be honest, neither of the middle movements really strikes me
as a scherzo, but surely the second movement is less scherzo-like
than the third?
Adrian
Adrian Hunter
>
> Derek Haslam wrote:
> >
> > In article <37E75B62...@ed.ac.uk>,
> > Adrian Hunter <adrian...@ed.ac.uk> wrote:
> > > > The scherzo of the Tchaikovsky Sixth is in 5/4, as is (most of) the
> > > > Danse Generale of Ravel's "Daphnis & Chloe". I think the New Dance of
> > > > Wallingford Riegger is in 7/4, as is the Tango (?) of Walter Piston's
> > > > "Incredible Flutist". (Not as sure of those last two)
> > > >
> > > > Franl E
> >
> > > and 4/4. (Nope, I don't have a score, but I'm pretty sure about
> > > this!)
> >
> > movement which is scherzo-ish. It's in 12/8 grouped as 3,3,3,3 producing a
> > combination of vigorous march and scurrying scherzo. The second movement,
> > despite it's indisputably waltz-like character, is in 5/4.
> >
> > Derek Haslam
> >
> Quite correct. I was thinking of the 5/4 movement as a substitute
> for a dance movement, and thought "scherzo", without considering that
> the third movement was more scherzo-like (although I think of it as a
> brilliant march movement -- notated, BTW, as "C(12/8)").
>
> Frank E
I admit that these fact were at the root of my confusion--and
make my recent reply superfluous--sorry!
Adrian
Sean M. Raleigh
is that the 5/4 measures are subdivided (2+3) instead of (3+2), (3+2) being
the more standard model for 5/4. (Simple-compound instead of
compound-simple, for you theory nuts.)
Sean Raleigh
Vanderbilt University
Frank Eggleston <eggl...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:37E586AF...@erols.com...
> jim...@fi.edu wrote:
> >
> > Are there any famous (or at least not-obscure) pieces in meters like 7/8
> > or 5/4? The most familiar piece I can think of is the scherzo of
> > Borodin's 3rd symphony, in 5/4. I don't mean works which shift meter
> > frequently and are in 7/8 for three bars or whatnot, but a work/
> > movement/etc which in recognizably _in_ such a meter for a long time.
> >
>
> The scherzo of the Tchaikovsky Sixth is in 5/4, as is (most of) the
> Danse Generale of Ravel's "Daphnis & Chloe". I think the New Dance of
> Wallingford Riegger is in 7/4, as is the Tango (?) of Walter Piston's
> "Incredible Flutist". (Not as sure of those last two)
>
> Franl E
Frank Eggleston
>
> There are many pieces in 5/4. What makes the Tchaikovsky 6th so interesting
> is that the 5/4 measures are subdivided (2+3) instead of (3+2), (3+2) being
> the more standard model for 5/4. (Simple-compound instead of
> compound-simple, for you theory nuts.)
>
> Sean Raleigh
> Vanderbilt University
>
I think PIT tends to alternate the 5/4 measures, with a 3+2 followed
by a 2+3, at least in the main theme of the second movement. (I'm
treating the triplet as an upbeat, as the "3" of a 3+2 beat. I suppose
one could treat it as the third beat of a 2+3 measure.)
Frank E
vertigo
What about Scriabin's middle-period Etudes?
--
****************************
"Who would have thought that
death had undone so many?"
DANTE, Divine Comedy
****************************
Bernard Hill
>Are there any famous (or at least not-obscure) pieces in meters like 7/8
>or 5/4? The most familiar piece I can think of is the scherzo of
>Borodin's 3rd symphony, in 5/4. I don't mean works which shift meter
>frequently and are in 7/8 for three bars or whatnot, but a work/
>movement/etc which in recognizably _in_ such a meter for a long time.
>
>
>Jim
>
>
>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
7-time is fairly common. The Dies Irae of Britten's War Requiem, or the
first of Bernstein' Chichester Psalms.
The most famous 5-time has to be Tchaikovsky's 6th Symphony 3rd movt,
and Mars from Holst's Planets suite.
11-time is the parade from Mussorgsky's PIctures and an Exhibition,
although he notates it in alternate bars of 5/4 and 6/4.
Bernard Hill
Braeburn Software
Author of Music Publisher system
Music Software written by musicians for musicians
http://www.braeburn.co.uk
Selkirk, Scotland
01750 21854
+44 1750 21854
Leonard Fehskens
>Are there any famous (or at least not-obscure) pieces in meters like 7/8
>or 5/4?
IIRC, the slow movement of one of Martucci's piano concertos (No. 2?)
is in 9. But it's not very famous...
len.
Bernard Hill
<len.fe...@compaq.com> writes
9/8 is a very common time, being simply 3 triplets in a bar. However I
can't think of any obvious examples :-(
Richard Schultz
: A Man and a Woman (Sha-na-na-na-na, sha-na-na-na-na, rest sha-na-na) 10/4
Actually, it's only partially in 10/4 (three bars of 10/4 followed by
four of 4/4). And it's notated as 2/2 + 2/4 + 2/2.
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry tel: 972-3-531-8065
Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel fax: 972-3-535-1250
-----
"an optimist is a guy/ that has never had/ much experience"
David Samuel Barr
>
> Mark Starr (st...@inow.com) wrote:
>
> : A Man and a Woman (Sha-na-na-na-na, sha-na-na-na-na, rest sha-na-na)
> : 10/4
>
> Actually, it's only partially in 10/4 (three bars of 10/4 followed by
> four of 4/4). And it's notated as 2/2 + 2/4 + 2/2.
Well, if you're going to start including non-classical music, there are
numerous uses of 5 and 7 in both jazz and pop music. A few just off the
top of my head:
Lalo Schifrin's "Mission: Impossible" (5/4)
Paul Desmond's "Take Five" (5/4)
Dave Brubeck's "Unsquare Dance" (7/8)
[Brubeck and Desmond each wrote a lot of other pieces in non-standard
metres, a number of which can be found on the Brubeck Quartet's
"Adventures in Time" album]
Genesis, "Turn It On Again" (mostly 13/4)
The Stranglers, "Golden Brown" (13/4)
Andrew Lloyd Webber has frequently used 5 and 7, either for entire songs
or for segments thereof. Some examples: in Jesus Christ Superstar,
"Everything's Alright" is a constant 5/4, while the centre section of
"Heaven on Their Minds is in 7/8; Evita's' "And the Money Kept Rolling
In and Out" is notated in 7/8 although the intra-measure patterns shift
constantly, e.g. 4+3, 5+2, 3+4, etc; and of course the famous 10/8 bar
in the otherwise 9/8 "Memory" (from "Cats") which almost every performer
stretches into 12/8.
Leonard Fehskens
wrote
>9/8 is a very common time, being simply 3 triplets in a bar.
The Martucci concerto isn't grouped anything like three triplets.
Bernard Hill
<dsb...@mindspring.com> writes
>
>Well, if you're going to start including non-classical music, there are
>numerous uses of 5 and 7 in both jazz and pop music. A few just off the
>top of my head:
You missed one of my favourites: Money from Pink Floyd (Dark side of the
moon).
>>and of course the famous 10/8 bar
in the otherwise 9/8 "Memory" (from "Cats") which almost every performer
stretches into 12/8.<<
Yeah, really bugs me!
Derek Haslam
Bernard Hill <ber...@braeburn.co.uk> wrote:
> 9/8 is a very common time, being simply 3 triplets in a bar. However I
> can't think of any obvious examples :-(
The Ride of the Valkyries
William H. Pittman
<ber...@braeburn.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <7s35lf$v17$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, jim...@fi.edu writes
>>Are there any famous (or at least not-obscure) pieces in meters like 7/8
>>or 5/4? The most familiar piece I can think of is the scherzo of
>>Borodin's 3rd symphony, in 5/4. I don't mean works which shift meter
>>frequently and are in 7/8 for three bars or whatnot, but a work/
>>movement/etc which in recognizably _in_ such a meter for a long time.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Jim
>>
>>
>>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>>Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
>
>7-time is fairly common. The Dies Irae of Britten's War Requiem, or the
>first of Bernstein' Chichester Psalms.
>
>The most famous 5-time has to be Tchaikovsky's 6th Symphony 3rd movt,
>and Mars from Holst's Planets suite.
>
>11-time is the parade from Mussorgsky's PIctures and an Exhibition,
>although he notates it in alternate bars of 5/4 and 6/4.
If you want to hear an odd distribution of 8 (3-2-3 in most bars), there's
the Hanson Concerto for Organ, Harp & Strings.
Also, the final portion of Ravel's Daphnis & Chloe is mostly in 5.
Neal
David Samuel Barr wrote in message <37F351...@mindspring.com>...
> and of course the famous 10/8 bar
>in the otherwise 9/8 "Memory" (from "Cats") which almost every performer
>stretches into 12/8.
Most published versions of the song delete that time change. I have a sheet
music (given to me, I would never buy it) of Memory (Hal Leonard) and the
second half of the bar in question is written as duplets. Talk to the
publisher about it. This is not an "easy piano" version either...
Bernard Hill
<nea...@javanetspam.com> writes
>
>Most published versions of the song delete that time change. I have a sheet
>music (given to me, I would never buy it) of Memory (Hal Leonard) and the
>second half of the bar in question is written as duplets. Talk to the
>publisher about it. This is not an "easy piano" version either...
>
That's interesting. My piano+solo score has 10/8 bars. And it is an easy
piano version to play <g>.
Bernard Hill
H. Pittman" <willi...@global2000.net> writes
>
>If you want to hear an odd distribution of 8 (3-2-3 in most bars), there's
>the Hanson Concerto for Organ, Harp & Strings.
There are lots of pieces in 3+3+2 (rhumba/calypso etc) and I've even
written one myself in 2+3+3 <g>
Neal
edition - perhaps they figure you folks on that side of the puddle are a bit
smarter...
Bernard Hill wrote in message ...
+AD4-In article +ADw-7t2kua+ACQ-ete+ACQ-1+AEA-autumn.news.rcn.net+AD4-, Neal
+AD4APA-neal413+AEA-javanetspam.com+AD4- writes
+AD4APg-
+AD4APg-Most published versions of the song delete that time change. I have a
sheet
+AD4APg-music (given to me, I would never buy it) of Memory (Hal Leonard) and the
+AD4APg-second half of the bar in question is written as duplets. Talk to the
+AD4APg-publisher about it. This is not an +ACI-easy piano+ACI- version either...
+AD4APg-
+AD4-
+AD4-That's interesting. My piano+sok- score has 10/8 bars. And it is an easy
+AD4-piano version to play +ADw-g+AD4-.
+AD4-
+AD4-Bernard Hill
+AD4-Braeburn Software
+AD4-Author of Music Publisher system
+AD4-Music Software written by musicians for musicians
+AD4-http://www.braeburn.co.uk
+AD4-Selkirk, Scotland
+AD4-01750 21854
+AD4- 1750 21854
William H. Pittman
<que...@ukgateway.net> wrote:
>In article <J6CmrGAo...@braeburn.demon.co.uk>,
> Bernard Hill <ber...@braeburn.co.uk> wrote:
>> 9/8 is a very common time, being simply 3 triplets in a bar. However I
>> can't think of any obvious examples :-(
>
>The Ride of the Valkyries
Tchaikovsky's The Minstrel's Canzonet.
Ports of Brahms' 3rd Symphony, first movement.
Glazunov's Elegy for Viola & Piano.
etc., etc., etc.
fo...@nats.informatik.uni-hamburg.de
>Are there any famous (or at least not-obscure) pieces in meters like 7/8
>or 5/4? The most familiar piece I can think of is the scherzo of
>Borodin's 3rd symphony, in 5/4. I don't mean works which shift meter
>frequently and are in 7/8 for three bars or whatnot, but a work/
>movement/etc which in recognizably _in_ such a meter for a long time.
The second movement of Rodrigo's `Concierto para una fiesta'
consistently employs the pattern 6/8 + 6/8 + 5/8, which _could_ be
interpreted as really being 17/8, notated so as not to confuse the
orchestra too much. In the middle of the cadenza it suddenly snaps
into plain 3/4 for a couple bars --- wonderful effect, that. Anyway,
can anybody top 17?
--
These opinions are mine. You can't have them.
Hanns Krehbiel
German composer Boris Blacher (19.01.1903- 30.01.1975, born somewhere in Outer
Mongolia) invented a technique calle "Variable Metren", variable meters. The
numbers of quarter notes per bar followed a predefined scheme, e.g.
2, 3, 4, 5, 3, 4, 5, 6, 4, 5, 6, 7 etc. You probably can find more about
Blacher and his technique through search engines.
Sometimes ordinary meters like 4/4 are subdivided in an uncommon way, e.g
3/8 + 3/8 + 2/8, as in the first movement of Ravel's piano trio.
hanns krehbiel
brgg
<adrian...@ed.ac.uk> wrote:
> vertigo wrote:
> >
> > What about the tango passage in the Brahms 4th?
> >
> > --
> There's no unusual metrical scheme anywhere in the 4th, although
> I think there's a song or two by Brahms in 5/4, but I can't
> recall which at the moment. The Variations on a Hungarian Song
> does a lot of alternating 3/4 and 4/4 (hiding the "real" 7/4).
> Adrian
I believe that the slow movement of the c minor piano trio (op 101?) is
in 7/4, although you might not guess it from the signature.
--Bruce
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