Vivaldi is Super UnderRated!
Big Boss
underrated. His works have so muchy "symmetry" in them. They are like
a dynamic Monet painting (which I can't say that I know of any "dynamic
Monet paintings-most of his works depict slow settings.). Can you not
visualize thousands of pigeons fleeting from the cobblestones of the
Vatican when you here the last movement of the summer portion of his Four
Seasons?
His use of teh violin, i believe, was very tasteful as well. They
depict an almost conversational tone (or an emotional tone of voice) in
them. I don't have any too many of his works, however, I do have the
Gloria, which i believe is Divine. Was it really God who wrote that?
Or did God guide his hands as he wrote with sharp quills the treble
clefs?
His music is the most romantic thing I've ever listened to. It
does a *perfect* job of depicting Europe. Can you not see the horse
carriages or the gloom of the Parisian autumn? If not, then try
listening with your eyes closed and with a clear mind.
I have also his four Seasons and some concertos. What pieces of
VivALDI do you guys out there like? May God bless the Red Priest.
Hari Pillai
msw
> Hari Pillai
Vivaldi also won the admiration of J. S. Bach, who transcribed many of
his pieces for keyboard.
Mike
ms...@bright.net ooooO Ooooo
Mike Swaldo (***) (***)
Box 180 **( )**
Tuscarawas, OH 44682 ** **
Rick Hayward
Big Boss <hi...@Ra.MsState.Edu> writes:
> I really believe that Vivaldi is really fantastically underrated.
I don't think that a survey of the catalogue would bear that out -
admittedly, there is an over-representation of 'I Quatri Stagioni',
but there is a pretty fair selection of the work of a very prolific
composer - and, come to that, of his contemporaries and immediate successors.
RH--
Rick Hayward, Wakefield, West Yorkshire
rick.h...@zetnet.co.uk
Dave Dalle
Well, the Four Seasons is one of the most popular pieces, so I think he's
doing ok.
> I have also his four Seasons and some concertos. What pieces of
> VivALDI do you guys out there like? May God bless the Red Priest.
the four Seasons are only 4 out of 500 concertos he wrote, so you can have
enough to keep busy. All his concertos sound very alike, but they're very
good, so it's not a complaint.
Dave
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Dave Lauriski
Big Boss <hi...@Ra.MsState.Edu> wrote:
> I really believe that Vivaldi is really fantastically
>underrated. His works have so muchy "symmetry" in them. They are like
>a dynamic Monet painting (which I can't say that I know of any "dynamic
>Monet paintings-most of his works depict slow settings.). Can you not
>visualize thousands of pigeons fleeting from the cobblestones of the
>Vatican when you here the last movement of the summer portion of his Four
>Seasons?
> His use of teh violin, i believe, was very tasteful as well. They
>depict an almost conversational tone (or an emotional tone of voice) in
>them. I don't have any too many of his works, however, I do have the
>Gloria, which i believe is Divine. Was it really God who wrote that?
>Or did God guide his hands as he wrote with sharp quills the treble
>clefs?
> His music is the most romantic thing I've ever listened to. It
>does a *perfect* job of depicting Europe. Can you not see the horse
>carriages or the gloom of the Parisian autumn? If not, then try
>listening with your eyes closed and with a clear mind.
> I have also his four Seasons and some concertos. What pieces of
>VivALDI do you guys out there like? May God bless the Red Priest.
> Hari Pillai
Vivaldi also won the admiration of J. S. Bach, who transcribed many of
his pieces for keyboard.
Mike
ms...@bright.net ooooO Ooooo
Mike Swaldo (***) (***)
Box 180 **( )**
Tuscarawas, OH 44682 ** **
I too believe that Vivaldi is underrated. I have a fair amount of his
works on CD, and my favorite of all his concertos that I have heard is his Concerto
in B minor for Two Trumpets. The themes of the last movement are awe-inspiring.
My favorite Season is Winter. I also like Concerto in B Minor for Four Violins.
David
Matthew Bonness
a devil of a time finding recordings of them, though,
until I came across a CBS Masterworks double-disc set
of Jean Pierre-Rampal doing all his flute concertos.
-Matt
Lionel Tacchini
True, but it's mainly the fault of about one million ensembles who all play the
same one percent of his music as if it had been written to serve as a
background
for your grandma's tea time.
Stravinsky once said (as a joke or provocation ?) that Vivaldi wrote 600
times the same concerto, I Musici tried to prove it.
We had to wait for Harnoncourt to give us a rendition of the 4 Seasons that
would take this music seriously, not as something you can only play to
children at school or sell to people whose next (and last) buy of classical
music is going to be a compilation of excerpts of Beethoven's famous
symphonies.
Times have changed, for cat's sake, and there are a few ensembles today who
do justice to this music.
First in line, for me, are Il Giardino Armonico (Teldec) with "Il Proteo", an
incredible CD of double and triple concertos (for violin or cello) with
Christophe Coin.
As a complement to the 4 Seasons, I'd recommend their new CD of the rest of
the opus 8 (no 5 to 12).
I'd like to recommend "L'Estro Armonico", opus 3, but I don't know of any
exceptional recording of it (Hogwood ? Please don't say Marriner).
I like the 6 cello sonatas a lot, dense, intimate, not as flashy as most
concertos, the more profound side of Vivaldi. Coin & Hogwood (L'Oiseau Lyre)
is a good version, but there is some choice here (I read a few good reviews,
but I can't remember the names, can someone help ?).
L.T.
Richard L. Kaye
music for about 45 years. EVERY time any station I was
involved with took a populasrity poll among its listeners,
Vivaldi has come out among the top 10 composers in popularity.
RLK
j.ham...@argonet.co.uk
>
Fortunately there can never be a definitive rating of any composer - there must
be at least ten who could be claimed as "the greatest", but most peoples' lists
would differ.
On the other hand (almost) everyone would include Bach - and he paid Vivaldi the
compliment of "borrowing" and reworking some of his concertos. What's good
enough for Bach must be good enough for the rest of us!
John Hamilton
--
-- -- --
j.ham...@argonet.co.uk
Living in Cumbria, England.
Using an Acorn RISC-PC 600
Richard Wang
>I'd like to recommend "L'Estro Armonico", opus 3, but I don't know of any
>exceptional recording of it (Hogwood ? Please don't say Marriner).
As usual in this repertoire, Trevor Pinnock and the English Concert are
excellent. It's a tossup between his set and Hogwood's, IMHO; fans of
either conductor will have no reason to buck the trend.
--
Richard Wang rw...@fas.harvard.edu
"In all my experience, I have never been wrong."--Ted Floyd
Rick Hayward
Lionel Tacchini <l...@anacad.de> writes:
Please don't say Marriner.
Why not? - Marriner.
Sorry - I can't do with the preciousness of what I've just read. Some
(perhaps many) greasy renditions of 'I Quatri Stagioni' are hard to
bear, but I Musici, Marriner, Hogwood and others have contributed
many musicianly performances of Vivaldi to disk. It is just not true that :
'We had to wait for Harnoncourt to give us a rendition of the 4
Seasons that would take this music seriously, not as something you
can only play to children at school'.
I am *not* defending 'musakification' of Vivaldi et al., but the
above assertion is OTT and redolent of the 'bended knee' attitude to
music which does just as much damage. I'm sure that Vivaldi and his
peers, who were, after all, performers, would be ROTFL at the pious
and solemn condescension ('something you can only play to children at
school') that consigns music to the graveyard.
You might not like other and earlier performances, but that's a
personal problem. Marriner and the ASMF were seminal in stimulating
interest in the baroque repertoire and raising standards of playing
out of the mush of the romantic orchestra. Such performances do not
diminish the music in the way that the 'musak' or 'romantic strings'
approaches do. Hogwood's recording of L'Estro Armonico is to be
highly recommended, and Marriner's is very enjoyable.
navy...@navy-memorial.org
Conrad all the time. I posted a query requesting the text of the Carmen
and the Ballsfighter review that I remember fondly from my WCRB-listening
days. (Yes, I even gave $ to the marathon for a copy AND for the
bumper-stickers.) Any chance of coaxing this valuable info out of you
now? Former BSO TFC singer displaced to the land of Norman Scribner. Lisa
navy...@navy-memorial.org
sucked into the ether.Sorry.
Juan Mariposa
>I don't have any too many of his works, however,
>I do have the Gloria, which i believe is Divine.
>I have also his four Seasons and some concertos.
>What pieces of VivALDI do you guys out there
>like? May God bless the Red Priest.
Dixit Dominus. It's one of the finest works that I
know of out there!
-Juan
Kehila Amnon
: True, but it's mainly the fault of about one million ensembles
: who all play the same one percent of his music as if it had been written
: to serve as a background for your grandma's tea time.
: Stravinsky once said (as a joke or provocation ?) that Vivaldi wrote 600
: times the same concerto, I Musici tried to prove it.
I couldn't agree more !!! Vivaldi had and still have much to say in music
but people that play like machines without any historical knowledge
or real interest in his music simply destroy his vision .
You mentioned I Musici but there are a lot more , like Negri on Philips
that ruined his vocal music, and many more . But thing are starting to
get better .
: We had to wait for Harnoncourt to give us a rendition of the 4 Seasons that
: would take this music seriously, not as something you can only play to
: children at school or sell to people whose next (and last) buy of classical
: music is going to be a compilation of excerpts of Beethoven's famous
: symphonies.
Yes , the 4 seasons is a *great* music not just to sleep with ,
but you should really hear Goebel or at least Il Giardino Armonico
to understand how much this music has to offer .Harnoncourt is too
out-of-date. BTW for another side of this work try Parrott , on Denon
or Virgin ,it's quite different .
: Times have changed, for cat's sake, and there are a few ensembles today who
: do justice to this music.
: First in line, for me, are Il Giardino Armonico (Teldec) with "Il Proteo", an
: incredible CD of double and triple concertos (for violin or cello) with
: Christophe Coin.
: As a complement to the 4 Seasons, I'd recommend their new CD of the rest of
: the opus 8 (no 5 to 12).
Well ,you forgot to mention his vocal music where Parrott , Lesene and
some others are starting to do a good job , BTW he wrote *many* operas
but AFAIK only one have HIP , La Judite with McCegan on Hongurton ,
there will another opera issue with Biondi on Opus-111 next month .
: I'd like to recommend "L'Estro Armonico", opus 3, but I don't know of any
: exceptional recording of it (Hogwood ? Please don't say Marriner).
Hogwood is pretty good but I think it's out of print , you can try
Huggett on a recently re-issued virgin CD at mid-price.
BTW I would certainly stay away from Marriner but few other people such as
Kramer on his Naxos cello concerto series , again , the same mistakes
that were done in the 60s-70s , modern instruments and rushed up recordings .
: I like the 6 cello sonatas a lot, dense, intimate, not as flashy as most
: concertos, the more profound side of Vivaldi. Coin & Hogwood (L'Oiseau Lyre)
: is a good version, but there is some choice here (I read a few good reviews,
: but I can't remember the names, can someone help ?).
Well , the best one , IMVHO , is Wispelwey , on Channel Classics
his insight of these works is wonderful .
--
keh...@math.tau.ac.il
Lionel Tacchini
> but you should really hear Goebel or at least Il Giardino Armonico
> to understand how much this music has to offer .Harnoncourt is too
> out-of-date. BTW for another side of this work try Parrott , on Denon
> or Virgin ,it's quite different .
A friend of mine who just read this (and the rest of the original posting) but
cannot connect to the net asked me to post an answer. Here it is :
"> Harnoncourt is too out-of-date
You can't let them say that !!!! It's indecent. Tell them Harnoncourt did it in
77 when the others were not born yet and that no one (except Il Giardino)
has been able to come close to such a vision. All the recordings that
followed (Pinnock, Europa Galante to mention but those considered as the best)
are nothing but pale and rather stale copies, more turned towards I Musici
than towards Harnoncourt. There are probably but 2 recordings worth
listening today : Harnoncourt and Il Giardino. It's the others, which are
"out of date".
Laurent Planchon."
I too, wouldn't go to such lengths as to call Harnoncourt "out of date",
although I agree that we shouldn't stick to one "reference" forever (and I'm
happy to learn that others are here to challenge it. It's all the best for
the music itself and its listeners).
L.T.
P.S. Thanks for your recommendations. I hope we get more of that kind.
Margaret Mikulska
>
>I'd like to recommend "L'Estro Armonico", opus 3, but I don't know of any
>exceptional recording of it (Hogwood ? Please don't say Marriner).
Pinnock.
No, not Marriner.
-Margaret
JSmallw594
as the
rightfully famous Four Seasons.
Kehila Amnon
: listening today : Harnoncourt and Il Giardino. It's the others, which are
: "out of date".
So what you are saying is that Parrott , Biondi , Huggett , Goebel and
many other fine HIP musicians are "out of date" , come on :)
You certainly can't say that about Goebel .
I think we come a long way from 1977 .
--
keh...@math.tau.ac.il
RandyF926
>"echo" concerto? What's the RV number and what's a good
>recording? Thanks.
>Terence
The RV number is 552 and you can find it on "Il Proteo" (TELDEC
4509-94552) with Il Giardino Armonico.
Randy Foster
Sandusky, Ohio
Rand...@aol.com
Name withheld by request
same concerto hundreds of time, although I must agree that this music
certainly sounds the same after a bottle of cheap Russian vodka.
Probably the reason why Bach appreciated Vivaldi is that he too wrote the
same cantata hundreds of times.
John
Yes, but every time Vivaldi is played on the concert stage, the likes of
Witold Lutoslawski lose out.
;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)
John
(See the "John Williams Syndrome" thread to understand this *hilariously funny* remark.)
Laurent PLANCHON
>--
always been 10 years ahead of his "colleagues". That makes now 1987, which
is not really out-of-date. Seriously, I agree that it was excessive to say
that the other are out-of-date, but you can neither say that about Harnoncourt
if you really listen to his version of the op 8.
No need to say that I am an Harnoncourt fan.
Laurent