GYORGY LIGETI IS DEAD!
Paul Holbach
R.I.P.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/5072858.stm
#PH
Matthew B. Tepper
the following letters to be typed in news:1150133938.067603.263440
@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
> A great composer has left us, but his music stays with us.
> R.I.P.
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/5072858.stm
Very sad news. I'm also sorry he had been in such bad health for so long.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made. ~ FDR (attrib.)
tomdeacon
And so is the record label which struggled to make his music known by a
wider audience.
Unless, that is, one is to give credit to the latest news from
Warner's.
TD
Christopher Culver
> Very sad news. I'm also sorry he had been in such bad health for so
> long.
It is sad indeed that Ligeti, may he rest in peace, could never came
back to health even for a brief instant to dazzle us with fresh new
works, like Schnittke. The possibility of an "Alice in Wonderland"
opera from Ligeti was always tantalizing, though Unsuk Chin has now
taken up that story. However, I think that the "Hamburg Concerto" was
a fine way to end one's career.
We should all be grateful that Boulez and Carter are both still
vigorously writing years after many composers have retired.
Christopher Culver
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Matthew B. Tepper
> "Matthew B. Tepper" <oyþ@earthlink.net> writes:
>> Very sad news. I'm also sorry he had been in such bad health for so
>> long.
>
> It is sad indeed that Ligeti, may he rest in peace, could never came back
> to health even for a brief instant to dazzle us with fresh new works,
> like Schnittke. The possibility of an "Alice in Wonderland" opera from
> Ligeti was always tantalizing, though Unsuk Chin has now taken up that
> story. However, I think that the "Hamburg Concerto" was a fine way to end
> one's career.
>
> We should all be grateful that Boulez and Carter are both still
> vigorously writing years after many composers have retired.
Carter in particular seems to have the will to give Leo Ornstein a run for
his money.
David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h offy
> Christopher Culver <crcu...@christopherculver.com> appears to have caused
> the following letters to be typed in
> news:87bqsyj...@aura.christopherculver.com:
>
> > "Matthew B. Tepper" <oyÃ≤@earthlink.net> writes:
> >> Very sad news. I'm also sorry he had been in such bad health for so
> >> long.
> >
> > It is sad indeed that Ligeti, may he rest in peace, could never came back
> > to health even for a brief instant to dazzle us with fresh new works,
> > like Schnittke. The possibility of an "Alice in Wonderland" opera from
> > Ligeti was always tantalizing, though Unsuk Chin has now taken up that
> > story. However, I think that the "Hamburg Concerto" was a fine way to end
> > one's career.
> >
> > We should all be grateful that Boulez and Carter are both still
> > vigorously writing years after many composers have retired.
>
> Carter in particular seems to have the will to give Leo Ornstein a run for
> his money.
Carter just gets better and better in my opinion. Astonishing in a way,
but also wonderful.
--
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
http://homepage.mac.com/davidhornecomposer http://soundjunction.org
Samuel Vriezen
> "Matthew B. Tepper" <oyþ@earthlink.net> writes:
>
>>Very sad news. I'm also sorry he had been in such bad health for so
>>long.
>
>
> It is sad indeed that Ligeti, may he rest in peace, could never came
> back to health even for a brief instant to dazzle us with fresh new
> works, like Schnittke. The possibility of an "Alice in Wonderland"
> opera from Ligeti was always tantalizing, though Unsuk Chin has now
> taken up that story.
She has? That's nice.
Though, much as I've enjoyed hearing works of her in the past, she's no Ligeti...
> However, I think that the "Hamburg Concerto" was
> a fine way to end one's career.
Oh yes!
> We should all be grateful that Boulez and Carter are both still
> vigorously writing years after many composers have retired.
Hm. In my opinion, the great figures of that generation are now either dead or
past their prime. (Carter is not past his prime but I'm not a massive Carter fan).
But that's all opinion - more interestingly, one has this sense that Ligeti
belonged to a real generation. There have been figures from subsequent
generations emerging that were interesting, but somehow I never think of them as
a generation really, I mean it's in particular the European scene that I'm
thinking of here.
--
samuel
http://www.xs4all.nl/~sqv/ - homepage, soundclips
http://blogger.xs4all.nl/sqv - weblog in Dutch
Nobody out there but us. And I can never figure out who that was or will be,
much less is.
- Charles Bernstein
Samuel Vriezen
tesco 24h offy wrote:
>
> Carter just gets better and better in my opinion. Astonishing in a way,
> but also wonderful.
>
Very true!
fields
they played a variety of excerpts of his music, mentioned not only that
he was considered Hungarian but also that he was a Jew, and--wonder of
wonders--they consistently pronounced his name correctly!
Got that, CBC? "Gyorgy" is pronounced like "dzoerdz", roughly like an
umlauted "george", not Gui-yor-gui.
--
Matthew H. Fields http://www.umich.edu/~fields
Music: Splendor in Sound
Vaneyes
Christopher Culver wrote:
>
> We should all be grateful that Boulez and Carter are both still
> vigorously writing years after many composers have retired.
Boulez has kicked back. Thankfully, Elliott's still at it...at age 97.
Regards
Joseph Henry
play it as originally written. I'd like to think Liszt is playing it for
him right now.
R.I.P., György.
Joseph Henry
Paul Ilechko
> One of his Piano Etudes was supposed to be so difficult even Aimard couldn't
> play it as originally written. I'd like to think Liszt is playing it for
> him right now.
Yeah, in the new movie "2006, A Space-Time Impossibility"
Christopher Culver
> Boulez has kicked back.
I don't think he has. He's updated "Incises" fairly recently, "Derive
2" last year, and there's that promised premier of a new "Notations".
Joseph Henry
> We should all be grateful that Boulez and Carter are both still
> vigorously writing years after many composers have retired.
Carter's a fascinating case. As he gets older his music seems to get
younger!
I keep my fingers crossed that he gets to write a piece in honor of Boulez'
100th birthday.
Joseph Henry
William Sommerwerck
might say -- Liggeti splits.
His "Atmospheres" was supposedly encored twice at its first performance. How
many modern works have been encored even once?
If you've never heard it, you should.
Christopher Culver
> One of his Piano Etudes was supposed to be so difficult even Aimard couldn't
> play it as originally written.
It's Etude 14a, "Coloana fara sfarsit" for player piano, ad
lib. living pianist. The definitive recording is on Gyorgy Ligeti
Edition 5 "Mechanical Music".
Idil Biret's recording of the Etudes on Naxos, which is infamous for
its tempo far, far slower than what Ligeti really intended, has her
attempt to play the piece. It sucks immensely.
Eventually though, some Nazi genetic superman capable of playing it
correctly will pop up. I wonder how long it'll take for doping to be
as popular in the music business as it is in sports.
Christopher Culver
> His "Atmospheres" was supposedly encored twice at its first performance. How
> many modern works have been encored even once?
I would imagine that they broke all the china (look at the score) on
the first go, and had none left with which to encore.
Paul Ilechko
> I wonder how long it'll take for doping to be
> as popular in the music business as it is in sports.
I think you mean prevalent, not popular. In fact, if you go by the
response to Barry Bonds and others, it's highly unpopular.
David Gray Porter
"fields" <matt-send-spamme...@tds.net> wrote in message
news:448ddf82$1...@newspeer2.tds.net...
Charles Milton Ling
Charley
--
Charles Milton Ling
Vienna, Austria
Matthew B. Tepper
the following letters to be typed in
> "Joseph Henry" <jhenr...@aol.com> writes:
>> One of his Piano Etudes was supposed to be so difficult even Aimard
>> couldn't play it as originally written.
>
> It's Etude 14a, "Coloana fara sfarsit" for player piano, ad
> lib. living pianist. The definitive recording is on Gyorgy Ligeti
> Edition 5 "Mechanical Music".
>
> Idil Biret's recording of the Etudes on Naxos, which is infamous for
> its tempo far, far slower than what Ligeti really intended, has her
> attempt to play the piece. It sucks immensely.
>
> Eventually though, some Nazi genetic superman capable of playing it
> correctly will pop up. I wonder how long it'll take for doping to be
> as popular in the music business as it is in sports.
Musicians engaging in chemical enhancement? Surely you are jesting.
David Gray Porter
news:877j3m9...@aura.christopherculver.com...
> "William Sommerwerck" <gizzle...@comcast.net> writes:
>> His "Atmospheres" was supposedly encored twice at its first performance.
>> How
>> many modern works have been encored even once?
>
> I would imagine that they broke all the china (look at the score) on
> the first go, and had none left with which to encore.
Aren't you thinking of "Nouvelles Aventures"?
David Gray Porter
\> Eventually though, some Nazi genetic superman capable of playing it
> correctly will pop up. I wonder how long it'll take for doping to be
> as popular in the music business as it is in sports.
Ahhh, funk that, let it be played by a machine, hardware or software! YES!
David Gray Porter
"William Sommerwerck" <gizzle...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:jpudnRbEyfERZBDZ...@comcast.com...
I have to tell you right here and now, bwah!, that a LOT of people know
Atmospheres from the movie "2001" -- and that "relatively established music"
[it had been around for over 5 years] was one of the things that freaked out
so many of the wuss reviewers of that film when it first hit the screen.
David Gray Porter
used to Ligeti's "Kyrie" and "Atmospheres" and "Lux Eterna" and :Aventures"
from the film "2001" and years later you get into upper-level bachelors
program for composers and they are still thinking like teh most ecent tone
row diagram of Tony's Opus 21, or the latest piece from Nadia Baker ca.
1923, is the last word in music!!
Jezus Kreist of course we needed drugs!
Chuck Estes Tribute this Saturday in Fullerton. Make a Zen Noise Here.
Don't miss it if you can.
"Matthew B. Tepper" <oy兀earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:Xns97E0B813CFF...@207.217.125.201...
mdhjwh
regi...@gmail.com wrote:
> But make sure you hear it stoned! I did the first time I heard it and
> it never sounded as good since :-)
Nothing does!
Richard Schultz
: Who knows what other sorts of chemical help [classical] musicians use. . .
I've been to a couple of performances (not mentioning any names) where
it's been fairly easy to guess. And I wasn't even in the front row, where
there probably were additional olfactory clues.
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
It's a bird, it's a plane -- no, it's Mozart. . .
Alexandros Rigas
Very sad news! Aimard had a telephone communication with the french
radio this morning talking on Ligeti.
Alex
Joaquim Hock
"Alexandros Rigas" <alex_...@hotmail.com> a écrit dans le message de
news:1150185836.1...@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
You can hear it here :
http://www.radiofrance.fr/chaines/france-musiques/emissions/sets/emission.php?e_id=20000014
It's at the end of the program. There is also an interview with Boulez
speaking about Ligeti.
Joaquim
Adam
I have no idea what you are talking about, but probably share a sadness with
you in the way several big music labels have been acting recently, indeed
for a while now.
So, what is the latest news from Warners - could you provide link or
pointer ?
> And so is the record label which struggled to make his music known by a
> wider audience.
>
> Unless, that is, one is to give credit to the latest news from
> Warner's.
>
> TD
Paul Dormer
(.com) wrote:
> *From:* "regi...@gmail.com" <Regis Muller>
> *Date:* Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:50:08 -0500
>
> On Mon, 12 Jun 2006 16:32:29 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
> <gizzle...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >I always pronounced his name li GET ty. But it's LIGGET e. So in
> dying, you
> >might say -- Liggeti splits.
> >
> >His "Atmospheres" was supposedly encored twice at its first
> performance. How
> >many modern works have been encored even once?
> >
> >If you've never heard it, you should.
> >
>
> But make sure you hear it stoned! I did the first time I heard it and
> it never sounded as good since :-)
>
Well, I was 15 when I first heard it, on the soundtrack to 2001, and
I've never been stoned in my life. Don't think I'd even want to hear it
when drunk - it's a piece for me for listening to with a clear head.
And, the first Ligeti knew that the piece was being used in the film was
when he went to see it. Richard Steinitz's biography of Ligeti has a
section on the years of litigation Ligeti was involved in to get paid
for its use.
William Sommerwerck
> I have to tell you right here and now, bwah!, that a LOT of people know
> Atmospheres from the movie "2001" -- and that "relatively established
music"
> [it had been around for over 5 years] was one of the things that freaked
out
> so many of the wuss reviewers of that film when it first hit the screen.
I'm not sure what you mean by bwah!.
Unlike a lot of modern music, Atmospheres made perfect sense to me the first
time I heard it.
Paul Ilechko
to be the least interesting piece on the A Capella Choral Works disc
from Sony.
Eric Grunin
>
> I thought it was Lux Aeterna that was used in 2001? Which, BTW, I find
> to be the least interesting piece on the A Capella Choral Works disc
> from Sony.
Kubrick used Lux Aeterna, Atmospheres and the Requiem.
I still remember seeing that movie for the first time, and wondering
what I was hearing during the monolith-on-the-moon sequence.
Regards,
Eric Grunin
www.grunin.com/eroica
Allen
Eric Grunin wrote:
A few years ago the Austin Symphony played Atmospheres (as I recall--or
was it Aventures?) while showing the light tube sequence from 2001. It
took several months of negotiation with the various parties to get the
rights to do this, but the resukt was that it was received
enthusiatically by the audience. I've wondered ever since what the
reaction would have been from some of the bluehairs etc if they had
played it without the movie sequence.
Allen
Matthew B. Tepper
be typed in news:e6lts8$bq9$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz:
> I have no idea what you are talking about, but probably share a sadness
> with you in the way several big music labels have been acting recently,
> indeed for a while now.
>
> So, what is the latest news from Warners - could you provide link or
> pointer ?
The "latest news from Warners" could be an instance in which bad news got
to the press before it was time, and now the corporation is embarrassed and
is desperately attempting damage control so they don't look quite so bad.
Samuel Vriezen
> I always pronounced his name li GET ty. But it's LIGGET e. So in dying, you
> might say -- Liggeti splits.
>
> His "Atmospheres" was supposedly encored twice at its first performance. How
> many modern works have been encored even once?
And then to think this was already way past the time that Schoenberg had killed
music! :-)
--
samuel
http://www.xs4all.nl/~sqv/ - homepage, soundclips
http://blogger.xs4all.nl/sqv - weblog in Dutch
Nobody out there but us. And I can never figure out who that was or will be,
much less is.
- Charles Bernstein
David Gray Porter
news:4f7s6aF...@individual.net...
The Kyrie from the Requiem was used for monolith music, the moon sequence
used Lux Aeterna (which was also on a DGG Avant Garde LP with a different
group), Atmosheres was used for the star-gate sequence, and a distorted
version of Aventures was made for the room sequence. All the recordings
were taken from the Wergo LPs (issued on Heliodor in the US on some of the
worst vinyl I have ever owned) and I suspoect some were overtracked with
extra bass line reinforcement.
David Gray Porter
>>> If you've never heard it, you should.
>
>> I have to tell you right here and now, bwah!, that a LOT of people know
>> Atmospheres from the movie "2001" -- and that "relatively established
> music"
>> [it had been around for over 5 years] was one of the things that freaked
> out
>> so many of the wuss reviewers of that film when it first hit the screen.
>
> I'm not sure what you mean by bwah!.
These pieces are probably the best known "avant garde" music from the early
'60s. Many people never heard of Ligeti but you put Atmospheres on and they
know how it was used in that movie.
> Unlike a lot of modern music, Atmospheres made perfect sense to me the
> first
> time I heard it.
Ha ha ha! That music freaked out a LOT of people, especially idiots writing
reviews that said Kubrick just got himself drugged up for the final
sequences!
David Gray Porter
news:memo.2006061...@pauldormer.compulink.co.uk...
>
> And, the first Ligeti knew that the piece was being used in the film was
> when he went to see it. Richard Steinitz's biography of Ligeti has a
> section on the years of litigation Ligeti was involved in to get paid
> for its use.
Not just to get paid, but because they didn't credit Aventures at all and
didn't acknowledge that they slowed it down and cut it up.
David Gray Porter
had moved on" crap.
They said the same thing about Ives as recently as 30 years ago.
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/5072858.stm
Christopher Culver
I'm sorry, I don't understand what you are referring to. I just looked
at the article and see nothing objectionable.
Christopher Culver
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Eric Grunin
>
> A few years ago the Austin Symphony played Atmospheres (as I recall--or
> was it Aventures?)
Had to be Atmospheres -- Aventures doesn't use an orchestra.
Regards,
Eric Grunin
www.grunin.com/eroica
David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h offy
> "David Gray Porter" <port...@earthlink.net> writes:
> > I see the BBC guy couldn't get his thing out without the usual "the world
> > had moved on" crap.
> > They said the same thing about Ives as recently as 30 years ago.
> >
> >>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/5072858.stm
>
> I'm sorry, I don't understand what you are referring to. I just looked
> at the article and see nothing objectionable.
Me neither. It's also similar to the BBC radio reports aired yesterday.
--
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
http://homepage.mac.com/davidhornecomposer http://soundjunction.org
Paul Dormer
this_address...@yahoo.com (David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the
> Christopher Culver <crcu...@christopherculver.com> wrote:
>
> > "David Gray Porter" <port...@earthlink.net> writes:
> > > I see the BBC guy couldn't get his thing out without the usual
> > > "the world
> > > had moved on" crap.
> > > They said the same thing about Ives as recently as 30 years ago.
> > >
> > >>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/5072858.stm
> >
> > I'm sorry, I don't understand what you are referring to. I just
> > looked
> > at the article and see nothing objectionable.
>
> Me neither. It's also similar to the BBC radio reports aired
> yesterday.
And the BBC played several Ligeti pieces this morning, is devoting a
whole issue of Music Matters to him next week, and broadcasting a
concert entirely of his works in the next couple of weeks.
Mr. P. Kulawec
: Christopher Culver <crcu...@christopherculver.com> wrote:
: > >>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/5072858.stm
: >
: > I'm sorry, I don't understand what you are referring to. I just looked
: > at the article and see nothing objectionable.
: Me neither. It's also similar to the BBC radio reports aired yesterday.
I think the article has been changed since yesterday. I'm sure the end part
was longer and contained the rhetorical question "genius or charlatan?"
with a definite mocking tone on display. I only had a brief glance at it,
though.
peter
Nightingale
Is there any way to see the old version?
jimj
as popular in the music business as it is in sports.>
Inderol was certainly widespread in the '80s, though
I don't know about now, or if you mean something
having an opposite effect.
Allen
Right. Thanks--I was too lazy to go and check. Anyway, it was a hit that
night, and I'm sure that some of the bluehairs (not all of whom are
chhronologically old) would have screamed bloody murder about them
playing such "modern trash". An example of the type I'm talking about
follows--
A few years ago the ASO gave an exceptionally fine performance of
Ravel's La Valse. I had seen a person from my company who had been hired
two or three years before, brand new MBA clutched tightly in his hand.
When I saw him at work I asked him if he had enjoyed the concert. That
27-year-0ld's response sent me away shaking my head--"That Ravel is just
too modern for me." You can imagine how he would have reacted to
Ligetiwithout a familiar anchor.
Allen
Lora Crighton
http://www.schott-music.com/news/komponistennews/show,3336.html
--
Blessed Cecilia, appear in visions
To all musicians, appear and inspire:
Translated Daughter, come down and startle
Composing mortals with immortal fire.
GustavM
> > Boulez has kicked back.
>
> I don't think he has. He's updated "Incises" fairly recently, "Derive
> 2" last year, and there's that promised premier of a new "Notations".
>
A broken promise, unfortunately.
Sad news about Ligeti. Here's hoping that ATMOSPHERES makes it into the
standard rep someday, as it deserves to.
mark_str...@yahoo.co.uk
the news has inspired me finally to read the Richard Toop monograph.
Very fine book.
mark s
Poldie
There are two pieces - the article linked to above, and the obit, which
is the top left most link on that page, which takes you here:
David Gray Porter
"Ohhhh, Ayndeee, I just wrote a 12-part polyphonic canon!"
"Lora Crighton" <sin...@yorku.ca> wrote in message
news:e6nioe$hce$1...@news.datemas.de...
David Gray Porter
news:ceFjg.24472$bk5....@tornado.texas.rr.com...
>
>
> A few years ago the ASO gave an exceptionally fine performance of Ravel's
> La Valse. I had seen a person from my company who had been hired two or
> three years before, brand new MBA clutched tightly in his hand. When I saw
> him at work I asked him if he had enjoyed the concert. That 27-year-0ld's
> response sent me away shaking my head--"That Ravel is just too modern for
> me." You can imagine how he would have reacted to Ligetiwithout a
> familiar anchor.
LA VALSE was too modern for this guy? What is he, a clown from the
"Deliverance" wing of the Reublican party?? A TV show about to be
cancelled??
More proof that you don't need a working brain to get an MBA.
(My Dad had one, from Harvard BS too, but getting a real degree from Pomona
College ca. '38 was much more demanding, he told me.)
David Gray Porter
> this_address...@yahoo.com (David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the
> duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h offy) wrote:
>
>> Christopher Culver <crcu...@christopherculver.com> wrote:
>>
>> > "David Gray Porter" <port...@earthlink.net> writes:
>> > > I see the BBC guy couldn't get his thing out without the usual
>> > > "the world
>> > > had moved on" crap.
>> > > They said the same thing about Ives as recently as 30 years ago.
>> > >
>> > >>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/5072858.stm
>> >
>> > I'm sorry, I don't understand what you are referring to. I just
>> > looked
>> > at the article and see nothing objectionable.
>>
>> Me neither. It's also similar to the BBC radio reports aired
>> yesterday.
It's in the Obit article you can click on from the first article.
David Gray Porter
news:87d5dd8...@aura.christopherculver.com...
> "David Gray Porter" <port...@earthlink.net> writes:
>> I see the BBC guy couldn't get his thing out without the usual "the world
>> had moved on" crap.
>> They said the same thing about Ives as recently as 30 years ago.
>>
>>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/5072858.stm
>
> I'm sorry, I don't understand what you are referring to. I just looked
> at the article and see nothing objectionable.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/292812.stm
"Dogged in recent years by ill health, Ligeti's output was markedly reduced.
In many ways the world had moved on, too."
Yeah, I'd like to see what the fork this writer-guy has composed...
David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h offy
Christopher Culver
> the news has inspired me finally to read the Richard Toop monograph.
> Very fine book.
The Toop biography, like the Phaidon Press biographies in general, is
flimsly, out of date, and contains no musicological analysis. Get
Richard Steinitz's _Gyorgy Ligeti: Music of the Imagination_ instead:
This one is much larger, goes all the way up to the end of Ligeti's
productive era, and has much exclusive information
jimj
but Richard Toop's is a fine book. He is cognizant
of the fact that there are two diverging tracks along
which one can write such a book, and he is dealing
with it now in his work on a Ferneyhough bio. Does
one write for the reader who is looking for a more
general informational read in a broad context, or
does one presuppose a certain level of knowledge
and familiarity with the composer's work and
sophistication about it? You write two very different
books, depending, and this is not necessarily your
choice as the author.
I bought Richard Toop's book only a year and a half
ago, and it was not out of print then. I think it's
quite blunt in its assessment of "Macabre," pulling
no punches, and I'm not sure what is considered
the end of Ligeti's productive era. Griffiths wrote
a nice article in yesterday's NYTimes that made some
generalizations about stylistic developments over
Ligeti's career I don't agree with.
jimj
Christopher Culver
> and I'm not sure what is considered the end of Ligeti's productive
> era.
Ligeti lived until 2006, but he wrote new pieces after the Weores song
cycle in 2000 or 2001. That's what I mean about the end of his
career. Steinitz's biograhy covers it all.
Joseph Henry
"GustavM" <mmt...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1150259611.2...@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
>> > Boulez has kicked back.
>>
>> I don't think he has. He's updated "Incises" fairly recently, "Derive
>> 2" last year, and there's that promised premier of a new "Notations".
>>
>
> A broken promise, unfortunately.
I think he's referring to the mysterious "Notations VIII" referenced in an
earlier thread.
> Sad news about Ligeti. Here's hoping that ATMOSPHERES makes it into the
> standard rep someday, as it deserves to.
I'll see you that and raise you "Lontano." Perfect thing to pair with a
Bruckner Symphony.
Joseph Henry
mark_str...@yahoo.co.uk
jimj wrote:
> Richard Toop's is a fine book.
I liked the way Toop trashed that dreadful recording by Bernstein of
"Atmosphères". He talks about Lenny's "flirtation" with
avant-garde and adrenaline-soaked readings and knocking a couple of
minutes off an already short piece. Ha Ha.
mark stratford.
jimj
mark_str...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
> I liked the way Toop trashed that dreadful recording by Bernstein of
> "Atmosphères".>
I like Richard Toop, so his critics tread on very
thin ice around me!
jimj
Peter T. Daniels
time," Ligeti was trashed -- their excerpts from *2001* were cut to the
Zarathustra fanfare -- including the space station view that should have
had the Blue Danube, and one of the psychedelic sequences that should
have had one of the Ligetis.
--
Peter T. Daniels gram...@att.net
Matthew B. Tepper
to be typed in news:1150361581.7...@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
What did he say was "wrong" with it?
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made. ~ FDR (attrib.)
David Gray Porter
news:449166...@worldnet.att.net...
> In last night's AFI "tribute" to the 100 "most inspiring" movies of "all
> time," Ligeti was trashed -- their excerpts from *2001* were cut to the
> Zarathustra fanfare -- including the space station view that should have
> had the Blue Danube, and one of the psychedelic sequences that should
> have had one of the Ligetis.
Heh. You expected "different"?
Eric Grunin
> mark_str...@yahoo.co.uk appears to have caused the following letters
> to be typed in news:1150361581.7...@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
>
> > "Atmosphères". He talks about Lenny's "flirtation" with avant-garde and
> > adrenaline-soaked readings and knocking a couple of minutes off an
> > already short piece. Ha Ha.
>
> What did he say was "wrong" with it?
It's been a *very* long time since I listened with the score (over 30
years), but I seem to recall that Bernstein took many liberties with
the tempi and the dynamics, kind of like Stokowski did with Ives's
Fourth Symphony.
Regards,
Eric Grunin
www.grunin.com/eroica
David Gray Porter
news:1150389416.2...@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>It's been a *very* long time since I listened with the score (over 30
>years), but I seem to recall that Bernstein took many liberties with
>the tempi and the dynamics, kind of like Stokowski did with Ives's
>Fourth Symphony.
That's a sad chapter in Stokie's life. He was totally out of his league.
He had tried to play it in '56 but he was rehearsing it measure by measure
and it never came together. He tried rehearsing it that way again in '65
but someone else intervened.
Some of his more egregious liberties (besdies a complete inability to
conduct an "Allegro"):
Complete ignorance of Ives's dynamics. Whenever you have a tune quoted,
just bring that out, no matter how it's marked. And when you don't have a
tune to bring out, keep the texture as muddled as you are.
Making a final chord out of the last notes of the Comedy. (This one really
irked Kirkpatrick.)
And playing the first half of the Finale in double-time.
Lora Crighton
> Hoo hoo ha! He looks like Barney Fife in the photo!
Barney Fife?
Peter T. Daniels
>
> David Gray Porter wrote:
> > Hoo hoo ha! He looks like Barney Fife in the photo!
>
> Barney Fife?
Did our Friendly Neighbor to the North not receive the Andy Griffith
Show?
Lora Crighton
> Lora Crighton wrote:
>> David Gray Porter wrote:
>>> Hoo hoo ha! He looks like Barney Fife in the photo!
>> Barney Fife?
>
> Did our Friendly Neighbor to the North not receive the Andy Griffith
> Show?
I've actually heard of that show, but don't recall ever seeing it. I never
watched much TV, & for years we didn't even own one.
jimj
> In last night's AFI "tribute" to the 100 "most inspiring" movies of "all
> time," Ligeti was trashed -- their excerpts from *2001* were cut to the
> Zarathustra fanfare -- including the space station view that should have
> had the Blue Danube, and one of the psychedelic sequences that should
> have had one of the Ligetis.>
Ouch. That's like omitting the psychedelic sequence
from the movie.
Griffiths referred to the Horn Trio as a "false start" or something
like that, maybe a dead end or false path. I don't understand it.
mvt 2 morphed into Piano Etude #4; mvt 4 morphed into Piano
Etude #6; mvt 1 is closely related to mvt 4, the descending
chromatic line figures prominently in many late works; including
the piano concerto, and the whole idea of writing multimovement
works with classical titles like "trio" and "concerto," isn't a
dead end or false start if it was used more than once during
a period of work (say, post-Trio).
I'm also not sure I agree with what has been said about a return
to his use of Hungarian folk tunes or melodies that sound
as thought they might be Hungarian folk tunes. Certainly
the finest piece from the pre-emigration "Ricercata" (do
I have the title correct?) is then reworked in the violin
concerto to haunting effect, but is it a folk tune? Is it
quoting his homeland's folk music when he reworks it
in the violin concerto?
Griffiths also said some nice things about the idea of
home being a time instead of a place, the sense of
nostalgia or homelessness or whatever. It's a very
interesting piece.
Philip Myers is performing the Horn Trio next season
in New York.
jimj
jimj
> standard rep someday, as it deserves to.
I'll see you that and raise you "Lontano." Perfect thing to pair with
a
Bruckner Symphony.
Lontano went over very well with the conservative audience
when the NYPhil played it. I overheard a group near me
who had an out of town accent and they were very enthused
by it. It's so beautiful I can't understand why it isn't
already standard rep.
But even a few years ago when EI did a Ligeti series
of concerts in Paris, they had to pair his music with
Mahler's in order to sell tickets. They billed it as
a collaboration with ___ orchestra (sorry, I don't know
its name) even though they didn't really join forces
that much.
I think pianists are working on the Etudes, not as much
as the Chopin and Liszt, but perhaps more than the
Moszkowski and Szymanowski. I have a hunch
#2 and #4 from Vol. 1 will be standard rep quite soon,
required for certain auditions, etc. They're tough, but
I have always felt the Rachmaninoff Etudes-tableaux
are nearly as difficult; it's just that people slosh
through only a few of them and take the easy way
out of their perils. I get as terrified thinking of something
like the Rach am Etude as I do when thinking of
Ligeti.
jimj
Paul Dormer
JWesley...@cs.com (jimj) wrote:
> Certainly
> the finest piece from the pre-emigration "Ricercata" (do
> I have the title correct?)
Usually called Musica Ricercata.
I must admit I didn't know this piece until I read Steinitz's biography
and was intrigued by his description of it, at which point I discovered
I'd already got a CD of it - it's couple with San Francisco Polyphony
and the Double Concerto, which was why I bought the CD, but I had only
listened to Musica Ricercata once and then forgot it. It is a fun
piece, and one I now go back to often.
(And, ironically, I bought the CD whilst attending the Huddersfield
Contemporary Music Festival one year, artistic director Richard
Steinitz. He then retired from the festival in order to have more time
to write his book on Ligeti.)
Paul Dormer
JWesley...@cs.com (jimj) wrote:
> Lontano went over very well with the conservative audience
> when the NYPhil played it. I overheard a group near me
> who had an out of town accent and they were very enthused
> by it. It's so beautiful I can't understand why it isn't
> already standard rep.
>
> But even a few years ago when EI did a Ligeti series
> of concerts in Paris, they had to pair his music with
> Mahler's in order to sell tickets. They billed it as
> a collaboration with ___ orchestra (sorry, I don't know
> its name) even though they didn't really join forces
> that much.
Back in 1985, when Abbado was chief conductor of the London Symphony
Orchestra, they did a series called something like "Mahler, Vienna, and
the 20th Century." What I think it was suppose to be was an Alban Berg
centenary series, as they played all his music, but they obviously
thought his name wouldn't pull the crowds the way Mahler would.
One concert in this series started with Lontano, then had the Berg
Violin Concerto and Mahler's 9th Symphony. After the Ligeti, the woman
sitting next to me turned and said (in a mittel-European accent) "You
clapped. You liked it? Can you explain it to me?"
Well, can you explain why you like a piece of music? I can't. I just
said that I liked the sounds it made, which exasperated her more.
David Gray Porter
> Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>> Lora Crighton wrote:
>>> David Gray Porter wrote:
>>>> Hoo hoo ha! He looks like Barney Fife in the photo!
>>> Barney Fife?
>>
>> Did our Friendly Neighbor to the North not receive the Andy Griffith
>> Show?
>
> I've actually heard of that show, but don't recall ever seeing it. I never
> watched much TV, & for years we didn't even own one.
Don Knotts played Barney Fife, Sheriff Andy's cousin who couldn't get a job
with anyone else. Andy knows Barney is a clown so he gets one bullet,
period. If he uses it, he doesn't get another. Barney has a constant fight
with himself whether or not to bring his bullet with him on each job. So
Barney decides on his first day to solve some old town mystery about who
started a fight. No one remembers what started the fight or who but they
get just as riled up at the thought of it. People in this small town in the
still-dry South (more bootleggers and drunks than usual) are at each others'
throats and nobody really remembers why, and Barney is the reason they're
all stirred up. Finally, one woman comes to see Andy, and she asks him Why
is Barney doing this??, and Andy replies without looking up, "'cuz he's a
nuut...."
David Gray Porter
> David Gray Porter wrote:
>> Hoo hoo ha! He looks like Barney Fife in the photo!
>
> Barney Fife?
"Ohh-hohh, Ayndee! We gawta NIP IT, we gawta NIP IT IN THE BUUD...!"
Lora Crighton
> Finally, one woman comes to see Andy, and she asks him Why
> is Barney doing this??, and Andy replies without looking up, "'cuz he's a
> nuut...."
>
LOL!
Matthew B. Tepper
following letters to be typed in
> Don Knotts played Barney Fife, Sheriff Andy's cousin who couldn't get a
> job with anyone else. Andy knows Barney is a clown so he gets one
> bullet, period. If he uses it, he doesn't get another. Barney has a
> constant fight with himself whether or not to bring his bullet with him
> on each job.
Not only that, but Andy made Barney promise that he would keep that one
bullet in his shirt pocket at all times.
bs
> Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > Lora Crighton wrote:
> >> David Gray Porter wrote:
> >>> Hoo hoo ha! He looks like Barney Fife in the photo!
> >> Barney Fife?
> >
> > Did our Friendly Neighbor to the North not receive the Andy Griffith
> > Show?
>
> I've actually heard of that show, but don't recall ever seeing it. I never
> watched much TV, & for years we didn't even own one.
>
Perhaps that's why you turned out so weird.
porky_...@my-deja.com
Boston, more than 10 years ago, I think it was a cycle of his works,
kind of a workshop put together by Boston University, I have attended
only one evening. I remember Adventures (completely blew my mind,
something you really have to watch rather than just listening) and
excepts from Grand Macabre (with, if I remember correctly, LIsa
Seifert), yet another composition you must see live and not just
listen. As an icing on a cake, Ligeti was present in the audience and
sitting just a few chairs away from me. I felt like sitting next to
God, honestly.
Paul Holbach wrote:
> A great composer has left us, but his music stays with us.
> R.I.P.
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/5072858.stm
>
> #PH