Good impressionistic music?
MrMan
of Debussy. I've been completely enthralled by his ability to vividly
illustrate picuters with his compositions, especially in "The Sunken
Cathedral" and "La Mer". Can anyone recommend any similar peices or
composers?
Christian Ohn
Other pieces by Debussy are "Images", which are two sets of three pieces
each, for piano.
And then, of course, you *must* listen to Ravel.
--
Christian Ohn
email: fr.rei...@ohn.christian (reverse order)
Web: http://christian.ohn.free.fr/organ/
Steven Van Impe
"MrMan" <mas...@wt.net> schreef in bericht
news:420e4fbd.01120...@posting.google.com...
Debussy wrote many great works for orchestra and piano. Check out his opera
Pelléas et Mélisande. You'll probably like music by Maurice Ravel too.
If colour and life are what you're looking for, you should also try the French
expressionist school, especially Milhaud (Le Boeuf sur le Toit, Saudades do
Brasil, ...) and Poulenc.
Steven
Claude Michel
1 - Les trois nocturnes
2 -Les images (for orchestra)
3 - Jeux
4 - Le Martyre de St Sébastien (orchestral suite)
And the master piece :
Pelleas and Melisande
Others works of Debussy with a good interpretations are :
la chute de la maison Usher PRETRE opéra - lyrique
Pelléas et Mélisande C.Maurane - J.Micheau - ...J.Founet
opéra - lyrique
Pelléas et Mélisande Ansermet;Danco;Mollet;.... opéra -
lyrique
Pelléas et Mélisande Désormière opéra - lyrique
Rodrigue et Chimène Nagano opéra - lyrique
3 chansons de Charles d'Orléans (orchestrées) Inghelbrecht - RDF - 1958
cantates, oratorios,...
Diane au bois cantates, oratorios,...
invocation Rosenthal cantates, oratorios,...
la damoiselle Elue Inghelbrecht - RDF - 1954 - Madeleine Jorge -
Jaqueline Joly - Chorale M.Briclot cantates, oratorios,...
le martyre de Saint Sébastien Inghelbrecht - RDF - 1955 - A.Falcon,
C.Collard, J.Collard, C.Gayraud cantates, oratorios,...
le printemps Grimbert cantates, oratorios,...
l'enfant prodigue Bertini/Norman/Carreras/...
cantates, oratorios,...
salut printemps Rosenthal cantates, oratorios,...
6 épigraphes antiques (orch ) A.Jourdan symphonique
berceuse héroÏque Martinon symphonique
Brouillards Danish Chamber Players - direction Jean Thorel
symphonique
Bruyères Danish Chamber Players - direction Jean Thorel
symphonique
Canope Danish Chamber Players - direction Jean Thorel
symphonique
children's corners Martinon symphonique
clair de lune Ségerstam symphonique
danse - tarentelle styrienne Martinon symphonique
Danseuses de Delphes Danish Chamber Players - direction Jean
Thorel symphonique
Feuilles mortes Danish Chamber Players - direction Jean Thorel
symphonique
Feux d'artifice ORTF - 1968 symphonique
Général Lavine -exentric Danish Chamber Players - direction Jean
Thorel symphonique
Jardins sous la pluie ORTF - 1968 symphonique
La danse de Puck Danish Chamber Players - direction Jean Thorel
symphonique
La fille aux cheveux de lin Danish Chamber Players - direction
Jean Thorel symphonique
La mer Tilson Thomas symphonique
La mer Inghelbrecht - RDF - 1954 symphonique
la plus que lente Martinon symphonique
La puerta del vino Danish Chamber Players - direction Jean Thorel
symphonique
La sérénade interrompue Danish Chamber Players - direction Jean
Thorel symphonique
le triomphe de bacchus symphonique
Les collines d'anacapri Danish Chamber Players - direction Jean
Thorel symphonique
l'isle joyeuse (orch) P.Y. Tortelier symphonique
marche écossaise Martinon symphonique
Martyre de St Sébastien (suite) E.P Salonen symphonique
Minstrels Danish Chamber Players - direction Jean Thorel
symphonique
pagodes Ségerstam symphonique
Pelléas & Mélisande symphonie E. Bour symphonique
petite suite Martinon symphonique
Prélude à l'après-midi d'un faune Boulez symphonique
Prélude à l'après-midi d'un faune Inghelbrecht - RDF - 1954
symphonique
printemps Martinon symphonique
printemps R.F avril 2000 - J.Mercier symphonique
sarabande ROSENTHAL symphonique
sarabande A.Jourdan symphonique
suite bergamasque ORTF - 1970's symphonique
trois images pour orch Boulez symphonique
trois images pour orch Martinon symphonique
trois images pour orch Inghelbrecht - RDF - 1954-1958
symphonique
trois nocturnes Tilson Thomas symphonique
trois nocturnes Inghelbrecht - RDF - 1954 symphonique
Voiles Danish Chamber Players - direction Jean Thorel
symphonique
danses sacrées et profanes Boulez concertante
danses sacrées et profanes Martinon concertante
fantaisie pour piano et orchestre Martinon concertante
rapsodie clarinette et orchestre Martinon concertante
rapsodie saxophone et orchestre Martinon concertante
Jeux Boulez ballet
Khamma Colon ballet
la boite à joujoux Martinon ballet
Bilitis (musique de scène) P.Y Artaud - Mefano - 2E2M scène,
film, ...
musique pour le roi Lear Martinon scène, film, ...
quatuor à cordes chambre
sonate pour flûte, alto et harpe ACADEMY OF ST MARTIN IN THE
FIELD chambre
sonate pour flûte, alto et harpe GELIOT.... chambre
sonate pour flûte, alto et harpe Lili Laskine chambre
sonate pour piano et violon chambre
sonate pour piano et violoncelle LE SAGE /COPPEY
chambre
Syrinx pour flûte solo P.Y Artaud - Mefano - 2E2M
chambre
trio chambre
2 chansons de France G.SOUZAY,G.BALDWIN mélodies
3 ballades de F.Villon (orchestrées) Inghelbrecht - RDF - 1958 -
B.Plantey mélodies
3 chansons de Bilitis Irène Joachin mélodies
3 chansons de Bilitis M.COMMAND,G.BALDWIN mélodies
3 chansons de Bilitis M.TEYTE;CORTOT mélodies
3 fêtes galantes n°1 E.AMELING.BALDWIN mélodies
3 fêtes galantes n°2 G.SOUZAY,G.BALDWIN mélodies
3 poèmes de Mallarmé E.AMELING.BALDWIN mélodies
3 poèmes de Mallarmé -Le jet d'eau (orchestré) Radio France
Debussy 2000 mélodies
4 proses lyriques E.AMELING.BALDWIN mélodies
5 poèmes de Baudelaire M.COMMAND,G.BALDWIN mélodies
6 ariettes oubliées F.VON.STADE,D.BALDWIN mélodies
aimons nous et dormons A.M RODDE/N . LEE mélodies
aimons nous et dormons M.MESPLE,D.BALDWIN mélodies
apparition Sandrine Piau, David Selig mélodies
apparition A.M RODDE; N.LEE mélodies
apparition M.MESPLE,D.BALDWIN mélodies
ariettes oubliées N° 1, 3, 5 M.GARDEN;DEBUSSY mélodies
Ballades de F.Villon Ch.Panzéra - Coppola - 1928
mélodies
Ballades de F.Villon G.SOUZAY,G.BALDWIN mélodies
Ballades de F.Villon - orch Radio France Debussy 2000
mélodies
Ballades de F.Villon (ext) M.TEYTE;CORTOT mélodies
Ballades de F.Villon (ext) Ch. Panzéra mélodies
beau soir G.SOUZAY,G.BALDWIN mélodies
Calmes dans le demi-jour A.M RODDE/N . LEE mélodies
Calmes dans le demi-jour E.Vidal, Susan Manoff
mélodies
Calmes dans le demi-jour M.MESPLE,D.BALDWIN mélodies
caprice A.M RODDE/N . LEE mélodies
chanson espagnole Sandrine Piau, David Selig mélodies
chanson espagnole A.M RODDE; N.LEE mélodies
Chevaux de bois (1ière version) Jean Delécluse, Dominique Merlet
mélodies
clair de lune A.M RODDE; N.LEE mélodies
clair de lune A.M RODDE; N.LEE mélodies
clair de lune 1 M.MESPLE,D.BALDWIN mélodies
Coqueterie posthume Sandrine Piau, David Selig
mélodies
Coqueterie posthume A.M RODDE; N.LEE mélodies
dans le jardin E.AMELING.BALDWIN mélodies
en sourdine A.M RODDE; N.LEE mélodies
fantoches Catherine Dubosc, Alain Planès mélodies
fantoches A.M RODDE; N.LEE mélodies
fêtes galantes A.M RODDE/N . LEE mélodies
fêtes galantes E.Vidal, Susan Manoff mélodies
fêtes galantes M.TEYTE;CORTOT mélodies
fleurs de blés E.AMELING,BALDWIN mélodies
il dort encore A.M RODDE/N . LEE mélodies
il dort encore E.Vidal, Susan Manoff mélodies
jane A.M RODDE/N . LEE mélodies
jane M.MESPLE,D.BALDWIN mélodies
la belle au bois dormant Jean Delécluse, Dominique Merlet
mélodies
la belle au bois dormant M.COMMAND,G.BALDWIN mélodies
la fille aux cheveux de lin A.M RODDE/N . LEE mélodies
la mer est plus belle A.M RODDE; N.LEE mélodies
la mer est plus belle G.SOUZAY,G.BALDWIN mélodies
la romance d'Ariel E.Vidal, Susan Manoff mélodies
la romance d'Ariel A.M RODDE; N.LEE mélodies
l'âme évaporée Catherine Dubosc, Alain Planès mélodies
l'archet Sandrine Piau, David Selig mélodies
l'archet Jean Delécluse, Dominique Merlet mélodies
le promenoir des deux amants CRESPIN mélodies
le promenoir des deux amants G.SOUZAY,G.BALDWIN
mélodies
le promenoir des deux amants M.TEYTE;CORTOT mélodies
le son du cor s'afflige A.M RODDE; N.LEE mélodies
le son du cor s'afflige G.SOUZAY,G.BALDWIN mélodies
l'échelonnement des haies A.M RODDE; N.LEE mélodies
l'échelonnement des haies G.SOUZAY,G.BALDWIN mélodies
les angelus M.COMMAND,G.BALDWIN mélodies
les cloches A.M RODDE; N.LEE mélodies
les cloches M.COMMAND,G.BALDWIN mélodies
les lilas A.M RODDE/N . LEE mélodies
les roses A.M RODDE/N . LEE mélodies
les roses E.Vidal, Susan Manoff mélodies
Madrid, Princesse des Espagnes Jean Delécluse, Dominique Merlet
mélodies
mandoline G.SOUZAY,G.BALDWIN mélodies
mélodies BERNAC mélodies
mélodies orchestrées R.F mélodies
musique A.M RODDE; N.LEE mélodies
noël des enfants sans maison Inghelbrecht - RDF - 1954
mélodies
noël des enfants sans maison E.AMELING.BALDWIN
mélodies
nuit d'étoiles E.Vidal, Susan Manoff mélodies
nuit d'étoiles A.M RODDE; N.LEE mélodies
nuit d'étoiles E.AMELING.BALDWIN mélodies
pantomime Sandrine Piau, David Selig mélodies
pantomime A.M RODDE; N.LEE mélodies
pantomime M.MESPLE,D.BALDWIN mélodies
paysage sentimental Sandrine Piau, David Selig
mélodies
paysage sentimental A.M RODDE; N.LEE mélodies
paysage sentimental M.MESPLE,D.BALDWIN mélodies
Pélléas (ext) Ch. Panzéra mélodies
pelléas et mélisande (ext) M.GARDEN;DEBUSSY mélodies
pierrot E.Vidal, Susan Manoff mélodies
pierrot A.M RODDE; N.LEE mélodies
pierrot M.MESPLE,D.BALDWIN mélodies
proses lyriques n°2 M.TEYTE;CORTOT mélodies
regret Sandrine Piau, David Selig mélodies
regret A.M RODDE; N.LEE mélodies
rêverie A.M RODDE/N . LEE mélodies
romance A.M RODDE; N.LEE mélodies
romance M.MESPLE,D.BALDWIN mélodies
rondeau A.M RODDE/N . LEE mélodies
rondeau Jean Delécluse, Dominique Merlet mélodies
rondeau M.MESPLE,D.BALDWIN mélodies
rondel chinois E.Vidal, Susan Manoff mélodies
rondel chinois M.MESPLE,D.BALDWIN mélodies
séguédille E.Vidal, Susan Manoff mélodies
sérénade E.Vidal, Susan Manoff mélodies
sérénade A.M RODDE/N . LEE mélodies
souhait A.M RODDE/N . LEE mélodies
souhait Jean Delécluse, Dominique Merlet mélodies
Tragédie Sandrine Piau, David Selig mélodies
Tragédie Jean Delécluse, Dominique Merlet mélodies
voici que le printemps Catherine Dubosc, Alain Planès
mélodies
voici que le printemps M.MESPLE,D.BALDWIN mélodies
Zéphyr E.Vidal, Susan Manoff mélodies
Zéphyr A.M RODDE; N.LEE mélodies
Zéphyr M.MESPLE,D.BALDWIN mélodies
6 epigraphes antiques ? piano
6 épigraphes antiques Noël Lee & Christian Ivaldi piano
6 épigraphes antiques Aldo Ciccolini piano
andante Noël Lee & Christian Ivaldi piano
ballade slave Noel Lee piano
ballade slave Aldo Ciccolini piano
berceuse héroïque Noel Lee piano
berceuse héroïque Aldo Ciccolini piano
children's corner Noel Lee piano
children's corner Aldo Ciccolini piano
Cloches à travers les feuilles D.PASCAL piano
danse bohémienne Noel Lee piano
danse bohémienne Aldo Ciccolini piano
deux arabesques Noel Lee piano
deux arabesques S. FRANCOIS piano
deux arabesques Aldo Ciccolini piano
diane (ouverture) Noël Lee & Christian Ivaldi piano
Divertissement pour 2 pianos Noël Lee & Christian Ivaldi piano
d'un cahier d'esquisses Noel Lee piano
d'un cahier d'esquisses Aldo Ciccolini piano
Elégie Radio France Debussy 2000 piano
Elégie Aldo Ciccolini piano
en blanc et noir Noël Lee & Christian Ivaldi piano
estampes Noel Lee piano
estampes Aldo Ciccolini piano
Et la lune descend sur le temple qui fut D.PASCAL piano
étude retrouvée Aldo Ciccolini piano
études pour piano Noel Lee piano
études pour piano Aldo Ciccolini piano
études pour piano ( 1-6) S.FRANCOIS piano
Feux d'artifice N.LEE piano
Feux d'artifice S.FRANCOIS piano
Feux d'artifice Aldo Ciccolini piano
Hommage à Haynd piano
Hommage à Haynd Noel Lee piano
Hommage à Haynd Aldo Ciccolini piano
images 1 Noel Lee piano
images 1 S.FRANCOIS piano
images 1 Aldo Ciccolini piano
images 2 Noel Lee piano
images 2 S.FRANCOIS piano
images 2 Aldo Ciccolini piano
images oubliées Noel Lee piano
images oubliées Aldo Ciccolini piano
intermezzo Noël Lee & Christian Ivaldi piano
la boite à joujoux Noel Lee piano
la boite à joujoux Aldo Ciccolini piano
La cathédrale engloutie N.LEE piano
la mer ? piano
la mer Noël Lee & Christian Ivaldi piano
la plus que lente Noel Lee piano
la plus que lente S. FRANCOIS piano
la plus que lente Aldo Ciccolini piano
le petit nègre Noel Lee piano
le petit nègre Aldo Ciccolini piano
l'enfant prodigue (ext) Noël Lee & Christian Ivaldi piano
Les collines d'Anacapri N.LEE piano
Lindaraja Noël Lee & Christian Ivaldi piano
l'isle joyeuse Noel Lee piano
l'isle joyeuse S. FRANCOIS piano
l'isle joyeuse Aldo Ciccolini piano
marche écossaise Noël Lee & Christian Ivaldi piano
masques Noel Lee piano
masques S. FRANCOIS piano
masques Aldo Ciccolini piano
mazurka Noel Lee piano
mazurka Aldo Ciccolini piano
morceau de concourt Aldo Ciccolini piano
nocturne Noel Lee piano
nocturne Aldo Ciccolini piano
page d'album Aldo Ciccolini piano
petite suite Noël Lee & Christian Ivaldi piano
poisson d'or D.PASCAL piano
pour le piano Noel Lee piano
pour le piano Aldo Ciccolini piano
prélude à l'aprés-midi d'un faune Noël Lee & Christian Ivaldi
piano
préludes livre 1 Noel Lee piano
préludes livre 1 S.FRANCOIS piano
préludes livre 1 Aldo Ciccolini piano
préludes livre 2 Noel Lee piano
préludes livre 2 S.FRANCOIS piano
préludes livre 2 Aldo Ciccolini piano
printemps Noël Lee & Christian Ivaldi piano
rèverie Noel Lee piano
rèverie S.FRANCOIS piano
rèverie Aldo Ciccolini piano
suite bergamasque Noel Lee piano
suite bergamasque Aldo Ciccolini piano
symphonie ? piano
symphonie Noël Lee & Christian Ivaldi piano
symphonie Aldo Ciccolini piano
tarentelle styrienne Noel Lee piano
tarentelle styrienne Aldo Ciccolini piano
triomphe de bacchus Noël Lee & Christian Ivaldi piano
valse romantique Noel Lee piano
valse romantique Aldo Ciccolini piano
--
With best regards from Paris
Claude Michel
"MrMan" <mas...@wt.net> a écrit dans le message de news:
420e4fbd.01120...@posting.google.com...
Claude Michel
Maurice Ravel
Florent Schmitt (first period ) as Salomée and so on...
Albert Roussel (first period )
Jean Cras ( Polyphème - but no CD)
Louis Aubert (the blue forest,- no CD unfortunatly)
And so on (I have a complete listing if you want - and the records also)
--
With best regards from Paris
Claude Michel
"Steven Van Impe" <svan...@antwerpen.be> a écrit dans le message de news:
3c0cb2ab$0$24148$ba62...@news.skynet.be...
Margaret Mikulska
If you liked "The Sunken Cathedral" by Debussy, you may like such works
as:
Bartók: the cycle "Szabadban" Sz 81 for piano (usually translated as
"Outdoors" or "Out of doors" or something along these lines); at least
the 4th of five works in this cycle can be called "impressionistic".
Bartók is not commonly thought as an "impressionistic" composer, but a
few of his works or even movements of larger works fit into this
category. I don't know of any available recording of this cycle -
perhaps somebody else will know. If you want to search for it, here's
the info:
Out of Doors (Szabadban), Sz 81 (1926), cycle consisting of:
With drums and pipes (Síppal, dobbal)
Barcarolla
Musettes
The night's music (As éjszaka zenéje, Musiques nocturnes)
The chase (Hajsza)
It's the "Night Music" that I have in mind.
Also, the slow movement of Bartók's "Music for strings, percussion, and
celesta" can be called impressionistic.
Also, there are several works by Karol Szymanowski, a contemporary of
Bartók, which you may like. Here's a list of most representative works
from his impressionistic period:
* Mity (Myths), Three Poems for violin and piano op.30 (1915)
* Nokturn i tarantela (Nocturne and Tarantelle) for violin and piano
op.28 (1915)
* Metopy (Metopes) for piano op.29 (1915)
* Twelve Etudes for piano op.33 (1916)
* Maski (Masks) for piano op.34 (1915-1916)
* Symphony #3 for tenor or soprano solo, chorus, and orchestra op.27
(1914-1916)
* Concerto #1 for violin and orchestra op.35 (1916)
* Sonata #3 for piano op.36 (1917)
In particular, the Violin Concerto #1 is one of the most colorful piece
ever written, with its scintillating, sparkling texture, - well, try
it. There is an inexpensive recording on Naxos with K. A. Kulka,
another on LONDON with Ch. Juillet and Dutoit, another on (Dante)/LYS
with W. Wilkomirska, the best performer of this work on recordings (but
the sound is a bit dated), at least one with D. Oistrakh, and more.
Third Symphony is also wonderful - you can try Wit on Naxos or Dorati on
LONDON or a Polish recording on the same (Dante)/Lys set as the Violin
Concerto.
Piano pieces are on Naxos (not all of them) and on Nimbus (complete, 4
CD with Martin Jones). Violin pieces have been recorded several times,
I can't think of a specific recording right now.
Incidentally, Debussy didn't intend to illustrate any pictures with his
music. The titles may suggest this, but in reality he meant no more -
at most - loose associations of the image from the title with music. He
was not a composer of programmatic music (or music with a programme).
But it's up to the listener to respond to the music they way s/he wants.
-Margaret
panN...@musician.org
You've gotten some good advice, so far. First of all, listen to
anything by Debussy. In particular, you should check a recording of
the Preludes for solo piano, Books I and II out of the library, but
there is so much other stuff (the music to the ballet Jeux and the
String Quartet come to my mind, and also the Suite Bergamasque with
the famous Clair de Lune). You will probably also appreciate the music
of Erik Satie, especially his wonderfully humorous and beautiful
Parades. I also agree with the suggestion that you listen to music by
Ravel, especially his pieces for solo piano, the music to the ballet
Daphis et Chloe, the Introduction and Allegro for solo harp and large
chamber group, and the String Quartet.
Roussel has been mentioned. The Spider's Feast (Le Festin de
l'araignee) has slow movements of luxuriant beauty.
Going back to a composer who was a kind of father of musical
Impressionism, listen to music by Chabrier, a wonderful composer.
I have yet to mention songs, but the French composers wrote lovely
songs, Debussy among them.
For a non-French Impressionist not named Szymanowsky (btw, I agree
with Margaret that he's well worth checking out), listen to some music
by the American Charles Tomlinson Griffes (beautiful solo-piano music,
the Dome of Kublai Khan for orchestra, the Poem for Flute and
Orchestra). Also, there is an early mature work by Arnold Schoenberg
which is very much influenced by Debussy - a series of short pieces
for solo piano. I don't remember the opus #, but there's no doubt that
Eric or some other expert will.
Michael
To reply by email, please eliminate "NOSPAM" from my address. Personal messages only, please!
Claude Michel
Except with the ballet "le prince des bois"
--
With best regards from Paris
Claude Michel
"Margaret Mikulska" <miku...@silvertone.princeton.edu> a écrit dans le
message de news: 3C0D6F07...@silvertone.princeton.edu...
Claude Michel
Others impressionists french composers are :
AUBERT Louis (la forêt bleue) - CAPLET (le miroir de Jesus) - CRAS (
Polypheme) - DELAGE( 'melodies) - DUKAS (La Perie) - HOEREE (Septuor) -
IBERT (lers escales, la ballade de la geole de Reading) - KOECHLIN (le livre
de la Jungle, etc...) - LE FLEM - LEMELAND - PIERNE (Cydalise et le Chèvre
Pieds ) - RAVEL - ROGER-DUCASSE - ROUSSEL - SAMAZEUILH - SCHMITT Florent -
WITKOWSKI
--
With best regards from Paris
Claude Michel
<panN...@musician.org> a écrit dans le message de news:
3c0d7b6d...@news.erols.com...
Margaret Mikulska
-Margaret
Margaret Mikulska
I'm glad you agree with me, but please: it's Szymanowski, not -y.
-Margaret
Steven Van Impe
"Claude Michel" <we...@club-internet.fr> schreef in bericht
news:3c0d079d$0$22393$7a62...@news.club-internet.fr...
> Impressionistic music are written not by Milhaud or Poulenc but by :
I never suggested they wrote impressionistic music, and neither did the
original poster ask for only impressionistic music.
Steven
Christian Ohn
> Impressionistic music are written not by Milhaud or Poulenc
Nobody on this newsgroup ever said they did.
Claude Michel
--
With best regards from Paris
Claude Michel
"Margaret Mikulska" <miku...@silvertone.princeton.edu> a écrit dans le
message de news: 3C0DA963...@silvertone.princeton.edu...
panN...@musician.org
<we...@club-internet.fr> wrote:
>Yes very good items.
>Others impressionists french composers are :
>
> AUBERT Louis (la forêt bleue)
I don't know his work very well. Is La foret bleue a ballet? It's a
sad fact that French music, other than a few composers (Ravel,
Debussy, and probably Saint-Saens and Franck - if he qualifies by
virtue of his long career in France - perhaps Faure') is unduly
neglected here in the U.S., though not by me in my performances.
> - CAPLET (le miroir de Jesus)
I don't know that piece, but the works of his I've heard are very
nice, pre-Impressionist French late 19th-century Romanticism.
> - CRAS (
>Polypheme) - DELAGE( 'melodies)
I don't know these folks.
> - DUKAS (La Perie)
Dukas is another good late/Post-Romantic composer, somewhat Modernist,
perhaps, but not really an Impressionist.
> - HOEREE (Septuor) -
Another composer whose name I know but whose works I don't know much
about. I recall reading a biography of Albert Roussel written by M.
Hoeree. What's the instrumentation of the Septuor?
>IBERT (lers escales, la ballade de la geole de Reading)
Yes, Escales is a work of true Impressionist Orientalism, and very
nice. At his best, Ibert is a very fine composer with his own voice,
but his work is of inconsistent quality.
> - KOECHLIN (le livre
>de la Jungle, etc...)
I haven't liked the Koechlin I've heard at all.
> - LE FLEM - LEMELAND -
I've never heard of these people.
> PIERNE (Cydalise et le Chèvre
>Pieds ) -
Gabriel Pierne' is a great composer, and I say that based on a limited
listening. I have a very good flute/piano transcription of a
violin/piano sonata by him which is so good that it sounds like Franck
could have easily written it - in other words, it's Romantic music of
1st rank, but certainly not Impressionist. However, I don't know the
work you mention.
I'm surprised Faure', Saint-Saens, Chausson, and Duparc didn't make
your list.
Going later, Andre' Jolivet is a great and original composer,
colorist, but definitely a post-Impressionist whose music is
characterized by a much more intense style of Modernism than Debussy.
[rest snipped]
Claude Michel
I can send - if you want - a complete listing of impressionistic french
music with commercial (or not commercial) recording .
Jolivet is not an impressionistic composer
La forêt bleue from Louis Aubert is one of the most beautifull and
caracteristic opera from the musical scoll in France. We compare this opera
in France to Ravel : l'enfant et les sortilèges !
No commercial recording but a very good tape by french 1950's radio
RTF - Enregistré le Vendredi 11 Juin 1954 - Raymond Malvasio - Le Prince
charmant Louis Noguera :.Le Père du Petit Poucet - Martha Angelici (soprano)
Le petit Chaperon Rouge - Claudine Collart (soprano)Le Petit Poucet -
Jacqueline Brumaire.La princesse - Geneviève Leroy-Thiebaut :Le Père du
Petit Poucet
Agnès Disney (mezzo-soprano)....La mère du petit Chaperon Rouge - Lucien
Lovano (baryton - basse) :.L'ogre - Henri Becourt :Un moissonneur - Freda
Betti: La servante - Orchestre Radio-Lyrique - Choeurs de la RTF dirigés par
Eugène Bigot
CAPLET (le miroir de Jesus) : Is like the martyre of St Sebastien of
Debussy.......One of the master -work of the french oratorios ! - two
commercial CD versions exists
CRAS Polypheme : Very inspired by Pelleas - Only Radio recording in France -
Louis Noguera:Polyphème - Joseph Peyron (ténor):.Acis - Geneviève Moizan
:Galatée - Nadine Sautereau (soprano) Lycas - Jean Mollien (ténor) Un
Sylvain - Georgette Spanellys (soprano)Une nymphe - Choeurs de la RTF -
Orchestre Radio-Lyrique - dirigés par Tony Aubin
PIERNE (Cydalise et le Chèvre Pieds) but also of operas, oratorios,
Fragonard RTF opéra - lyrique
Saint François d'Assise FOURNET opéra - lyrique
Sophie Arnould ORTF-1959 / N.Sautereau.P.Mollet E.BIGOT opéra -
lyrique
la croisade des enfants (ext) cantates, oratorios,...
La croisade des enfants (intégrale) Toronto 1960 cantates,
oratorios,...
l'an mil ORTF - 1973 live cantates, oratorios,...
l'an mil FOURNET cantates, oratorios,...
les enfants à Bethleèm cantates, oratorios,...
--
Faure - Saint-Saens, - Chausson, - and Duparc are not impressionistic
musicians, there are franckiste musicians very different (influence by
Wagner and not by Debussy)
With best regards from Paris
Claude Michel
<panN...@musician.org> a écrit dans le message de news:
3c106e93...@news.erols.com...
panN...@musician.org
<we...@club-internet.fr> wrote:
[snip]
>I can send - if you want - a complete listing of impressionistic french
>music with commercial (or not commercial) recording .
No thanks. [smile] I already have a bunch of CDs I have yet to listen
to.
>Jolivet is not an impressionistic composer
If you read my post carefully, you would have noticed that I never
claimed he was. He was a _post_-Impressionist Modernist with a unique
voice.
[snip - thanks for information]
>Faure - Saint-Saens, - Chausson, - and Duparc are not impressionistic
>musicians, there are franckiste musicians very different (influence by
>Wagner and not by Debussy)
Mais bien sur! But are you claiming that Gabriel Pierne' was
impressionist? The violin/piano sonata I heard could have been easily
written by Franck. It's my opinion that many of the composers you
named are not impressionists. Caplet, also, is a pre-impressionist
composer - or at least what I've heard so far leads me to that
opinion.
Claude Michel
become an impressionistic composer as Albert Roussel:
His ballet : Cydalise et le chêvre-pied for example (fantastic new first
mondial complete recording this year with TIMPANI )
Saint François d'Assise (impressionistic)
Sophie Arnould (impressionistic)
La croisade des enfants (impressionistic)
l'an mil (Is franckiste )
les enfants à Bethleèm (impressionistic)
bouton d'or(impressionistic)
divertissement sur un thème pastoral (impressionistic)
Fragonard ( not impressionistic)
images (impressionistic)
impressions de music-hall ( not impressionistic)
les cathédrales(impressionistic)
pastorale ?
paysages fransciscains (impressionistic)
poème symphonique ( not impressionistic)
concerto pour harpe(impressionistic)
concerto pour piano ( not impressionistic)
fantaisie-ballet ( not impressionistic)
giration ( not impressionistic)
Ramuntcho (impressionistic)
Mais bien sur! But are you claiming that Gabriel Pierne' was
> impressionist? The violin/piano sonata I heard could have been easily
> written by Franck. It's my opinion that many of the composers you
> named are not impressionists. Caplet, also, is a pre-impressionist
> composer - or at least what I've heard so far leads me to that
> opinion
--
With best regards from Paris
Claude Michel
<panN...@musician.org> a écrit dans le message de news:
3c14341a...@news.erols.com...
> On Sat, 8 Dec 2001 04:51:53 +0100, "Claude Michel"
> <we...@club-internet.fr> wrote:
>
> [snip]
> >I can send - if you want - a complete listing of impressionistic french
> >music with commercial (or not commercial) recording .
>
> No thanks. [smile] I already have a bunch of CDs I have yet to listen
> to.
>
> >Jolivet is not an impressionistic composer
>
> If you read my post carefully, you would have noticed that I never
> claimed he was. He was a _post_-Impressionist Modernist with a unique
> voice.
>
> [snip - thanks for information]
>
> >Faure - Saint-Saens, - Chausson, - and Duparc are not impressionistic
> >musicians, there are franckiste musicians very different (influence by
> >Wagner and not by Debussy)
>
Paul Wehage
Debussy himself was more influenced by the Symbolist movement in painting,
rather than anything by the impressionist guys, who actually were parts of
several movement (divisionist, fauvisme, etc etc..). I think that calling
Debussy "impressionist" sort of negates a lot of the inherent violence of
his style.
Jean Françaix always liked to talk about a line of French composers who took
root with Chabrier and who continue up to this day. When you take into
account things like 1. a certain rhythmnic clarity, 2. use of fairly
classical forms 3 attention to harmonic and orchestral colour, you can put
quite a few composers into this line...I don't think that the idea of this
vague concept of "impressionism" really clarifies anything other than what
people would like to imagine....but the old "melting ice cream cone" school
of Debussy playing doesn't really work in my book anyway....
.
--
Paul Wehage
Musik Fabrik Music Publishing
18 rue Marthe Aureau
77400 Lagny sur Marne FRANCE
tél 00.33.1.70.00.13.84
fax 00.33.1.64.30.13.84
website http://perso.chello.fr
Hear our music at http://www.ampcast.com/musikfabrik
panN...@musician.org a écrit dans le message
<3c14341a...@news.erols.com>...
panN...@musician.org
<musik....@chello.fr> wrote:
>The whole idea of impressionism in music is indeed extremely slippery.
>Debussy himself was more influenced by the Symbolist movement in painting,
Painting and poetry (think of the Prelude a l'apres-midi d'un Faune).
>rather than anything by the impressionist guys, who actually were parts of
>several movement (divisionist, fauvisme, etc etc..).
The Fauves were post-Impressionist, as I understand. For example,
Monet and Renoir are clearly of older generations than Veuillard, are
they not? And wasn't Veuillard the oldest of the Fauvistes? I have no
idea what the Divisionists were.
> I think that calling
>Debussy "impressionist" sort of negates a lot of the inherent violence of
>his style.
Depends on what period of his work you are discussing. Debussy's late
work is clearly post-Impressionist, while his early mature work is
more nearly Romantic. You are right, of course, that none of this is
that simple.
>Jean Françaix always liked to talk about a line of French composers who took
>root with Chabrier and who continue up to this day. When you take into
>account things like 1. a certain rhythmnic clarity, 2. use of fairly
>classical forms 3 attention to harmonic and orchestral colour, you can put
>quite a few composers into this line...
Starting back at least as far as Berlioz, in many ways (with the
exception of "classical forms" since Berlioz was a radical Romantic).
>I don't think that the idea of this
>vague concept of "impressionism" really clarifies anything other than what
>people would like to imagine....
Of course, it's a simplification, but what I think it mainly refers to
is (1) the use of music to represent impressions of images, places, et
al. _along with_ (2) the use of a type of Asian-influenced harmony
that focused on sensuousness and deliberately weakened the pull of a
tonic. I think that Monet's "Impression: Aube" has its counterpart in
music by Debussy like "Voiles" from Book I of the Preludes for solo
piano. In the painting by Monet, there is no perspective, and the
subject of the painting really is the way light affects the scene at
dawn. In the Debussy, there is no tonality (only a whole-tone scale in
the A sections and a pentatonic in the middle section), and the
subject is quite arguably a similar kind of portrayal (I recall it's
an interpretation of a poem, but I don't feel like looking that part
up right now).
> but the old "melting ice cream cone" school
>of Debussy playing doesn't really work in my book anyway....
Explain what you're referring to here, please.
Also, folks, please snip the portions of posts you're responding to
that are unnecessary to understand your posts, and refrain from
top-posting. No big deal, but it does decrease the size of your posts.
Best,
Paul Wehage
> Painting and poetry (think of the Prelude a l'apres-midi d'un Faune).
Yes, but the term of impressionism sort of negates the basic aesthetic
of this work as a choreographic poem....The staged version is
certainly influenced by the symbolists, as is the underlying erotic
violence...
>
> The Fauves were post-Impressionist, as I understand. For example,
> Monet and Renoir are clearly of older generations than Veuillard, are
> they not? And wasn't Veuillard the oldest of the Fauvistes? I have no
> idea what the Divisionists were.
>
Monet and Renoir's styles really don't have much to do with each
other, IMO, I'd place Renoir more in the lines of a Cezanne. When you
lump something like Toulouse-Latrec into all of this, it's hard to
speak of a definite movement. I think that Monet's style is unique,
but the others are reflective of the times....The Divisionists are
called Pointillists outside of France, I believe...
> Depends on what period of his work you are discussing. Debussy's late
> work is clearly post-Impressionist, while his early mature work is
> more nearly Romantic. You are right, of course, that none of this is
> that simple.
>
Something like L'Isle Joyeuse (listen to John Bell Young's performance
on mp3.com and you'll see what I'm getting at....) is not the bunch of
wilting violets that people like to see it as....It's actually quite
violent in a (slightly) veiled erotic manner...not "impressionist" at
all....I think that he wrote it just after his wedding trip? anyway,
it's really about sex, IMO
> Starting back at least as far as Berlioz, in many ways (with the
> exception of "classical forms" since Berlioz was a radical Romantic).
Agreed!
>
> >I don't think that the idea of this
> >vague concept of "impressionism" really clarifies anything other than what
> >people would like to imagine....
>
I think that Monet's "Impression: Aube" has its counterpart in
> music by Debussy like "Voiles" from Book I of the Preludes for solo
> piano. In the painting by Monet, there is no perspective, and the
> subject of the painting really is the way light affects the scene at
> dawn. In the Debussy, there is no tonality (only a whole-tone scale in
> the A sections and a pentatonic in the middle section), and the
> subject is quite arguably a similar kind of portrayal (I recall it's
> an interpretation of a poem, but I don't feel like looking that part
> up right now).
I'll give you that point....
>
> > but the old "melting ice cream cone" school
> >of Debussy playing doesn't really work in my book anyway....
>
> Explain what you're referring to here, please.
>
It's putting the pedal down all the time...and ignoring the fact that
there has to always be a rhythmnic pulse even when it seems
improvised...I cold write a book about this.....
Paul Wehage
Musik Fabrik Music Publishing
Jeff Harrington
> >IBERT (lers escales, la ballade de la geole de Reading)
>
> Yes, Escales is a work of true Impressionist Orientalism, and very
> nice. At his best, Ibert is a very fine composer with his own voice,
> but his work is of inconsistent quality.
Which pieces by Ibert are considered his best impressionistic work?
Is he like the Signac of musical impressionism? A little bit late
to the party but made some worth efforts?
Also recommended recordings?
Thanks,
Jeff Harrington
http://www.parnasse.com/jeff.htm
Claude Michel
> Is he like the Signac of musical impressionism? A little bit late
> to the party but made some worth efforts?
>
> Also recommended recordings?
I know very well the music of Jacques Ibert (I have know is family, his
wife, ad so on...)
This are the answers to yours questions :
Complete works of Ibert is not recorded to day especialy the opera : except
: Angélique CD available with Y.DAVID - opéra - lyrique - one of
the most interesting work of Ibert - some samples are impressionists...
The others operas are not available (only private recordings by
Radio-France)
Gonzague opéra - lyrique (not impressionism)
l'Aiglon opéra - lyrique (With Honegger )
le roi d'Yvetot opéra - lyrique (not impressionism)
les petites Cardinal opéra - lyrique (With Honegger )
Persée et Andromède opéra - lyrique ( a little impressionism)
Orchestral music includes :
And are available on CD with
bacchanale DUTOIT symphonique (not impressionism)
ballade de la géole de Reading symphonique NAXOS
impressionism
chant de folie symphonique (not impressionism)
Diane de Poitiers ADRIANO-ORCH MOSCOU symphonique (not
impressionism + impressionism)
divertissement FREMAUX symphonique (not impressionism
+ impressionism)
escales MARTINON symphonique ( impressionism)
escales DUTOIT symphonique
féerique symphonique (not impressionism)
les rencontres (orch) symphonique (not impressionism +
impressionism)
louisville concert MARTINON symphonique (not
impressionism, Like Gerschwin music ! )
louisville concert DUTOIT symphonique
ouverture de fête MARTINON symphonique (not
impressionism, Like Gerschwin music ! )
rondo hommage à Mozart DUTOIT symphonique (not
impressionism )
symphonie marine FREMAUX andalso NAXOS - symphonique -
impressionism
symphonie n°2 bostaniana DUTOIT symphonique (not
impressionism )
symphonie n°2 bostaniana FREMAUX symphonique
tropismes des amours imaginaires MARTINON symphonique
(not impressionism )
cappricio concertante (not impressionism )
concerto pour flûte Rampal concertante (not
impressionism )
concerto pour flûte DUTOIT concertante
concerto pour saxophone John Harle - Academy of St Martin in the
field - N.Mariner concertante (not impressionism )
symphonie concertante concertante (not impressionism, )
la licorne (intégrale) ADRIANO-ORCH MOSCOU ballet
(not impressionism )
le chevallier errant ( intégrale) ORTF - Tzipine
ballet FANTASTIC MUSIC THE MASTER-WORK OF IBERT A CD A RELEASE FROM OLD LP
on CD (not impressionism + impressionism)
les amours de Jupiter IBERT ballet (not impressionism +
impressionism)
l'éventail de Jeanne ballet (not impressionism +
impressionism)
14 juillet de Romain Rolland scène, film, ...(not
impressionism)
Golgogtha ADRIANO scène, film, ...(not impressionism +
impressionism)
le jardinier de Samos OLYMPIA scène, film, ...(not
impressionism + impressionism)
Macbeth ADRIANO scène, film, ...(not impressionism +
impressionism)
suite élisabethaine scène, film, ...(not impressionism +
impressionism)
suite Paris 32 DUTOIT scène, film, ..(not impressionism
+ impressionism).
2 interludes OLYMPIA chambre (not impressionism +
impressionism)
2 mouvements pour quatuor vents OLYMPIA chambre (not
impressionism )
3 pièces brèves quintette vents OLYMPIA chambre (not
impressionism )
3 pièces en trio OLYMPIA chambre
5 pièces pour vents OLYMPIA chambre
6 pièces pour harpe OLYMPIA chambre
aria pour fl,vl,pn OLYMPIA chambre
ariette pour guitare OLYMPIA chambre
Caprilena (violin) OLYMPIA chambre
Carignane (basson & pn) OLYMPIA chambre
entr'acte OLYMPIA chambre
étude-caprice à chopin (cello) OLYMPIA chambre
française pour guitare OLYMPIA chambre
Ghirlarzana (cello) OLYMPIA chambre
impromptu (trompette &piano) OLYMPIA chambre
jeux ,sonatine pour fl & pn OLYMPIA chambre
l'age d'or OLYMPIA chambre
paraboles pour 4 guitares OLYMPIA chambre
pastoral pour 4 pipeaux OLYMPIA chambre
pièce pour flûte OLYMPIA chambre
quatuor à cordes OLYMPIA chambre
trio OLYMPIA chambre
2 chansons de Melpomène M-J DOLORIAN mélodies
2 chansons de Melpomène F.Ferrari - D.Baldwin -
C.Dune -S.Chevalier mélodies
2 stèles orientées F.Ferrari - D.Baldwin - C.Dune -S.Chevalier
mélodies
3 chansons du livre d'amour M-J DOLORIAN mélodies
3 extraits du roi d'Yvetot M-J DOLORIAN mélodies
3 poèmes de Charles Vildrac F.Ferrari - D.Baldwin -
C.Dune -S.Chevalier mélodies
4 chansons de don Quichotte CHALLIAPINE mélodies
4 chansons de don Quichotte R.F mélodies
4 chansons de don Quichotte ADRIANO mélodies
4 chansons de don Quichotte F.Ferrari - D.Baldwin -
C.Dune -S.Chevalier mélodies
4 chansons de don Quichotte CHALLIAPINE mélodies
4 chants M-J DOLORIAN mélodies
4 chants F.Ferrari - D.Baldwin - C.Dune -S.Chevalier
mélodies
berceuse de Galiane mélodies
berceuse de Galiane M-J DOLORIAN mélodies
berceuse de Galiane F.Ferrari - D.Baldwin - C.Dune -S.Chevalier
mélodies
chanson M-J DOLORIAN mélodies
chanson F.Ferrari - D.Baldwin - C.Dune -S.Chevalier
mélodies
Chanson de Fortunio F.Ferrari - D.Baldwin - C.Dune -S.Chevalier
mélodies
Chanson de Fortunio Marc et André / orch G.Delerue / LP ADES :
chansons pour le théâtre mélodies
Chanson de Sancho F.Ferrari - D.Baldwin - C.Dune -S.Chevalier
mélodies
chanson du rien M-J DOLORIAN mélodies
chanson du rien F.Ferrari - D.Baldwin - C.Dune -S.Chevalier
mélodies
complainte de Florinde M-J DOLORIAN mélodies
complainte de Florinde F.Ferrari - D.Baldwin -
C.Dune -S.Chevalier mélodies
Jardin du ciel F.Ferrari - D.Baldwin - C.Dune -S.Chevalier
mélodies
la verdure dorée M-J DOLORIAN mélodies
La verdure dorée F.Ferrari - D.Baldwin - C.Dune -S.Chevalier
mélodies
le jardin du ciel M-J DOLORIAN mélodies
Le petit âne blanc F.Ferrari - D.Baldwin - C.Dune -S.Chevalier
mélodies
Vocalise-étude:Aria en duo F.Ferrari - D.Baldwin -
C.Dune -S.Chevalier mélodies
française HAE-WON CHANG piano
histoires DOYEN piano ..( impressionism).
histoires HAE-WON CHANG piano
Hommage à Roussel piano
le vent dans les ruines GOBET piano
le vent dans les ruines HAE-WON CHANG piano
les rencontres GOBET piano
les rencontres HAE-WON CHANG piano
l'espiègle au village de Lilliput HAE-WON CHANG piano
petite suite en 15 images GOBET piano
petite suite en 15 images HAE-WON CHANG piano
pièce romantique HAE-WON CHANG piano
scherzetto HAE-WON CHANG piano
toccata sur Roussel GOBET piano
toccata sur Roussel HAE-WON CHANG piano
--
With best regards from Paris
Claude Michel
"Jeff Harrington" <je...@actv.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
3C1E5B70...@actv.com...
mark doran
news:3c1e6a4a$0$24741$7a62...@news.club-internet.fr...
>
> I know very well the music of Jacques Ibert (I have known his family, his
> wife, and so on...)
>
But did you ever meet his brother Ted.....???
:)
M.
Claude Michel
Only is wife, and the sun, (Claude Ibert ) and the family of his sun...
His girl was dead in an accident during 1945...
"Couillon"
--
With best regards from Paris
Claude Michel
"mark doran" <do...@dial.pipex.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
3c1e6b6c$0$227$cc9e...@news.dial.pipex.com...
mark doran
> No I dont.
> Only is wife, and the sun, (Claude Ibert ) and the family of his sun...
> His girl was dead in an accident during 1945...
>
> "Couillon"
>
> --
My dear chap,
Sorry, but I think I made a joke that doesn't translate well...
- Try saying 'Ted Ibert' rather quickly...
:)
M.
panN...@musician.org
wrote:
>panN...@musician.org wrote:
>
>> >IBERT (lers escales, la ballade de la geole de Reading)
>>
>> Yes, Escales is a work of true Impressionist Orientalism, and very
>> nice. At his best, Ibert is a very fine composer with his own voice,
>> but his work is of inconsistent quality.
>
>Which pieces by Ibert are considered his best impressionistic work?
I have no idea what Critical opinions think. There's a song with flute
accompaniment that I like very much, something about the marriage of
the wind and the water. I like the 2nd movement of the flute concerto
very much, but the 3rd movement is too long and repetitive. I have to
confess that I don't know his oeuvre that well.
>Is he like the Signac of musical impressionism? A little bit late
>to the party but made some worth efforts?
Perhaps. I saw 3 paintings by Signac I liked in the Centre Pompidou,
IIRC. When I told my father (a painter) about that, he said I might
have seen his only 3 good paintings, as he has a lot of the same
style, superficially, as Seurat, without any of the substance.
>Also recommended recordings?
I'm usually not a good source for info on recordings, but I feel sure
others either have or will help you with that.
panN...@musician.org
<we...@club-internet.fr> wrote:
>I know very well the music of Jacques Ibert (I have know is family, his
>wife, ad so on...)
[snip]
Excellent.
Claude Michel, could you possibly choose some favorites from among the
list of works you posted? Do you really like all of those works
equally?
Claude Michel
--
With best regards from Paris
Claude Michel
"mark doran" <do...@dial.pipex.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
3c1e71b0$0$8512$cc9e...@news.dial.pipex.com...
Claude Michel
famous !
Regards
Claude Michel
<panN...@musician.org> a écrit dans le message de news:
3c1ec357...@news.erols.com...
Claude Michel
Symphonic :
Escale
La ballade de la geôle de Reading
Divertissement
Symphonie marine
Le chevalier errant
and also prehaps ? : Diane de Poitiers
concerto pour saxophone
Chamber :
All the 2 CD by Olympia
and especialy :
"Entr'acte"
3 pièces en trio
5 pièces pour vents
quatuor à cordes
Piano
Les histoires (" le petit âne blanc " is his most famous work )
Melodie
4 chansons de don Quichotte (" la mort" is the most beautifull )
Operas
Angelique - the others are not available unfortunatly...
--
With best regards from Paris
Claude Michel
<panN...@musician.org> a écrit dans le message de news:
3c1ec485...@news.erols.com...
sch...@gefen.cc.biu.ac.il
: Which pieces by Ibert are considered his best impressionistic work?
I don't know which are considered his "best". "Escales" is probably
his most famous impressionistic-type piece.
: Also recommended recordings?
I recommend the Martinon recordings. There is one that is all Ibert
(includes Escales) and there is a classic recording of "Divertissement"
on a recording that includes Bizet's "Jeux d'Enfants" and a couple of tone
poems by Saint-Saens. There was a "complete chamber music" 2-CD set on
the Olympia label that I got from BRO; I don't know if it's still available,
but the performances were acceptable.
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"You go on playing Bach your way, and I'll go on playing him *his* way."
-- Wanda Landowska
panN...@musician.org
<we...@club-internet.fr> wrote:
>This song is " Entr'acte " for flute and harpe
[snip]
Excuse me, but I'm a professional flutist, do not call pieces without
voice "songs," and know the Entracte very well, having performed it
numerous times.
panN...@musician.org
<we...@club-internet.fr> wrote:
>My english is too poor to understand your joke, desolate...
Tu veux dire "sorry" (Je suis desole' = I am sorry.)
Est-ce que tu connais le Teddy Bear, ca veut dire le nounourse
(orthographie?)
David R L Porter
from "mark doran" <do...@dial.pipex.com> contains these words:
> Sorry, but I think I made a joke that doesn't translate well...
> - Try saying 'Ted Ibert' rather quickly...
I remember years ago in an April Fool's concert at the Liverpool
Phil, Fritz Spiegl giving an immensely long spoken introduction to a
'newly discovered composition' by Ibert's brother, Edward -- so
popular in its time, he explained, that it was regularly played when
meals were eaten out of doors -- and it had come to be known as Ted
Ibert's Picnic --
Three saxophone players (AFIR) from the Phil then came on stage
dressed in teddy bear costumes and played the whole thing, dead-pan.
Ah, bliss was it to be alive in those days ...
--
Best wishes,
David
david....@zetnet.co.uk
Visit us at www.porterfolio.com
mark doran
M.
"David R L Porter" <david....@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:200112172...@zetnet.co.uk...
Claude Michel
For me it is one of the famous piece with flute and harpe (or guitare)
With 2 interludes of Ibert
But with an other instrument there is also :
Debussy (sonate fli, Alto and Harpe)
Ropartz (prelude marine et chanson)
F.Schmitt : Suite en rocaille
Ravel : introduction et allegro (with clarinette)
and son on...
--
With best regards from Paris
Claude Michel
<panN...@musician.org> a écrit dans le message de news:
3c1ed6a9...@news.erols.com...
Claude Michel
--
With best regards from Paris
Claude Michel
<panN...@musician.org> a écrit dans le message de news:
3c1ed709...@news.erols.com...
panN...@musician.org
<we...@club-internet.fr> wrote:
>Do you like it ?
Sure, it's a nice piece. I have also played the Deux Interludes for
Flute, Cello, and Piano (originally, Harp). Both nice pieces, but
nothing more than fun (not profound).
>But with an other instrument there is also :
>Debussy (sonate fli, Alto and Harpe)
That is a _GREAT_ piece.
>Ropartz (prelude marine et chanson)
>F.Schmitt : Suite en rocaille
>Ravel : introduction et allegro (with clarinette)
Solo harp with large chamber group. Another great piece.
I don't know Ropartz' work, and I'm not all that familiar with Floren
Schmitt's oeuvre.
panN...@musician.org
<we...@club-internet.fr> wrote:
>No I do not know it....What is it ?
A Teddy Bear is sort of like a pillow in the shape of a bear (what we
call a "stuffed animal"), and it's a toy for children. I'm sure you've
seen them.
Robert Marshall
(of a teddy bear)
> No I do not know it....What is it ?
>
un ours en pelouche
R
--
All the slow fish of ignorance
turned toward the sound
-- Chase Twichell
panN...@musician.org
wrote:
>panN...@musician.org wrote in message news:<3c15e700...@news.erols.com>...
>> On Tue, 11 Dec 2001 10:54:43 GMT, "Paul Wehage"
>> <musik....@chello.fr> wrote:
>
>> Painting and poetry (think of the Prelude a l'apres-midi d'un Faune).
>
>Yes, but the term of impressionism sort of negates the basic aesthetic
>of this work as a choreographic poem....
We were talking about Symbolism here, I thought.
>The staged version is
>certainly influenced by the symbolists, as is the underlying erotic
>violence...
Right. Though I think Debussy's music is a lot less violent than the
way I interpret the poem (e.g. as rape rather than some kind of
dreamy, possibly-imagined seduction, which is how Nijinsky's ballet
presents it but also how the music seems to present it, I think).
>> The Fauves were post-Impressionist, as I understand. For example,
>> Monet and Renoir are clearly of older generations than Veuillard, are
>> they not? And wasn't Veuillard the oldest of the Fauvistes? I have no
>> idea what the Divisionists were.
>>
>Monet and Renoir's styles really don't have much to do with each
>other, IMO, I'd place Renoir more in the lines of a Cezanne.
I disagree. I agree that Renoir and Monet are different from each
other: Renoir's work is more traditional in structure (i.e. easier to
read the 3-dimensional space in), but I think both are way more
different from Cezanne than from each other.
> When you
>lump something like Toulouse-Latrec into all of this,
In a way, I don't really, since Toulouse-Lautrec is really a
poster-maker. His paintings were not only non-perspectival but flat.
Monet's are non-perspectival but many of them have a 3-dimensionality,
anyway, and of a special if not unique kind.
> it's hard to
>speak of a definite movement.
I could make similar arguments about Romanticism.
> I think that Monet's style is unique,
>but the others are reflective of the times....
_Everyone_ is reflective of his/her time.
>The Divisionists are
>called Pointillists outside of France, I believe...
French people no longer talk about pointillisme?
>> Depends on what period of his work you are discussing. Debussy's late
>> work is clearly post-Impressionist, while his early mature work is
>> more nearly Romantic. You are right, of course, that none of this is
>> that simple.
>>
>Something like L'Isle Joyeuse (listen to John Bell Young's performance
>on mp3.com and you'll see what I'm getting at....) is not the bunch of
>wilting violets that people like to see it as....It's actually quite
>violent in a (slightly) veiled erotic manner...
I agree.
>not "impressionist" at
>all....
Hmmm...Impressionist works can't portray storms? Everything always has
to be calm? Wouldn't that be pablum, not Impressionism?
>I think that he wrote it just after his wedding trip? anyway,
>it's really about sex, IMO
So Impressionist art can't have a sexual connotation? I find this hard
to agree with. It seems to me that the Orientalist connotations often
have an aspect of sexual exoticism.
[snip points of agreement]
>> > but the old "melting ice cream cone" school
>> >of Debussy playing doesn't really work in my book anyway....
>>
>> Explain what you're referring to here, please.
>>
>
>It's putting the pedal down all the time...and ignoring the fact that
>there has to always be a rhythmnic pulse even when it seems
>improvised...
[snip]
We agree on this. One of my old flute teachers was Thomas Nyfenger. In
his book on flute playing, he has an appedix called [some number of]
"Perversions of _Syrinx_." He always liked to repeat Debussy's comment
that he wished he was German because then people would have respected
his markings more. No-one should play Debussy's music stiffly,
metronomically, and without expression, but his music must never be
amorphous and overly vague.
>I cold write a book about this.....
I'd encourage you to do so!
Regards,
Paul Wehage
> On 13 Dec 2001 06:48:00 -0800, musik....@chello.fr (Paul Wehage)
> wrote:
>
> >panN...@musician.org wrote in message news:<3c15e700...@news.erols.com>...
> >> On Tue, 11 Dec 2001 10:54:43 GMT, "Paul Wehage"
> >> <musik....@chello.fr> wrote:
>
> >> Painting and poetry (think of the Prelude a l'apres-midi d'un Faune).
> >
> >Yes, but the term of impressionism sort of negates the basic aesthetic
> >of this work as a choreographic poem....
>
> We were talking about Symbolism here, I thought.
I was...the other fellow thinks it's impressionist...I think that's
I'm simply alergic to the term....
>
> Right. Though I think Debussy's music is a lot less violent than the
> way I interpret the poem (e.g. as rape rather than some kind of
> dreamy, possibly-imagined seduction, which is how Nijinsky's ballet
> presents it but also how the music seems to present it, I think).
The Ballet is rather queerly angular and it's not "dreamy" or possibly
immaged. The Faun should be quite menacing, but in a hidden
manner....and the music, inspite of the beauty of the colors, does
have a hidden menace in places. It's controled violence...There is
the idea of Rape here..but only if it comes to that....
> >Monet and Renoir's styles really don't have much to do with each
> >other, IMO, I'd place Renoir more in the lines of a Cezanne.
>
> I disagree. I agree that Renoir and Monet are different from each
> other: Renoir's work is more traditional in structure (i.e. easier to
> read the 3-dimensional space in), but I think both are way more
> different from Cezanne than from each other.
My we're getting off topic here, aren't we...well, let's try to
salvage some of this by saying that Renoir and Monet are probably as
related as Debussy and Ravel....
>
> >The Divisionists are
> >called Pointillists outside of France, I believe...
>
> French people no longer talk about pointillisme?
Not the people that I hang around with (People who work for the
Bibliothèque Nationale and National Museums)...I don't believe that
Pointillisme was ever really used currently in France.
>
> >> Depends on what period of his work you are discussing. Debussy's late
> >> work is clearly post-Impressionist, while his early mature work is
> >> more nearly Romantic. You are right, of course, that none of this is
> >> that simple.
>
>
> >not "impressionist" at
> >all....
>
> Hmmm...Impressionist works can't portray storms? Everything always has
> to be calm? Wouldn't that be pablum, not Impressionism?
What WE call impressionism was really the reflection of something
else. Note the great number of paintings of landscapes, bridges,
architecture and the like. This was supposedly a reaction against the
established officials schools of 19th century Painting who spent their
time painting mythological scenes and the like as an excuse for
painting nude women and scenes of violence...The whole so-called
"impressionists" movement was actually more a movement towards
scientific control of technique with choices of subjects which were
governed by a leftist political agenda.....Obviously, Renoir doesn't
fit into this...But if you look at what Pissaro, Sisley, to some
extent Monet and others (Gausson especially....), you find more of a
tendency towards a more calculated scientific approach, with a great
deal of structure under the supposedly vague shapes.....but now I've
contradicted myself because I've already said that Debussy has the
same hidden structure..Oh well, at least I've brought this back on
topic...
> So Impressionist art can't have a sexual connotation? I find this hard
> to agree with. It seems to me that the Orientalist connotations often
> have an aspect of sexual exoticism.
Impressionist art was a direct reaction against the veiled eroticism
of the Official artists...but I do believe that they all probably
liked a good time now and then.....
>
> We agree on this. One of my old flute teachers was Thomas Nyfenger. In
> his book on flute playing, he has an appedix called [some number of]
> "Perversions of _Syrinx_." He always liked to repeat Debussy's comment
> that he wished he was German because then people would have respected
> his markings more. No-one should play Debussy's music stiffly,
> metronomically, and without expression, but his music must never be
> amorphous and overly vague.
A French singer with whom I worked always said that it was less
important to play the notes as written as it was to play the silences
correctly. This is, I believe, the key to playing Debussy....I
remember hearing Galway play this live on a French TV show in the 80s
and he never stopped to take a breathe....I felt as if I was going to
die at the end....
Best
Paul Wehage
Musik Fabrik Music Publishing
http://perso.chello.fr/musik
Hear our Music at http://www.ampcast.com/musikfabrik