Peace music
Edwin Humphries
Can anyone suggest suitable music for a orchastral concert for peace -
this being the INternational Year for the culture f Peace and all!
piper
How about the Agnus Dei from Beethoven's _Missa solemnis_, with its
military music responded to with "NO! Give us _PEACE_!" and ultimately
defeated? How about the 9th Symphony with the great Schiller Ode to
Joy? I think that's a whole program (and a long one!) right there!
Michael
To reply by email, please eliminate "NOSPAM" from my address. Personal messages only!
Evelyn Vogt Gamble (Divamanque)
post said "orchestral") what better work than the Frank
Martin "In Terra Pax", written (in advance of the actual
event) to celebrate the end of WWII? A truly wonderful
work, and quite short (a few seconds more than forty-five
minutes, on my recording). However, it requires a choir and
five soloists who are not totally unfamiliar with twentieth
century music. It's certainly very "accessible", but does
have a fair amount of dissonance and odd (meaning somewhat
unexpected) intervals.
Peter T. Daniels
>
> G'day,
>
> Can anyone suggest suitable music for a orchastral concert for peace -
> this being the INternational Year for the culture f Peace and all!
I don't see how purely instrumental music can communicate "Peace"; the
other suggestions are choral, and I don't think you could do better than
Britten's War Requiem. The UN and UNESCO regularly commission
medium-length anthems whose texts deal with peace (Britten's "Voices for
Today" is one of his lesser works).
--
Peter T. Daniels gram...@worldnet.att.net
Evelyn Vogt Gamble (Divamanque)
Daniels. (However, the list will vary from person to
person, since emotional response to music is a very
individual thing). I once heard the Barber Adagio described
as "pure peace". For me it's the Brahms third symphony.
(Don't ask why - it simply has always had the power to calm
and sooth me whenever I feel harried or distressed.)
Mahler's "Ich bin der Welt abhhanden gekommen" and Brahms
"Die Mainacht" do that for me, too, but of course they're
not purely orchestral. Now an entirely instrumental work
that evokes "peace" for EVERY listener..... (You're
probably right.)
"Peter T. Daniels" wrote:
>
>
> I don't see how purely instrumental music can communicate "Peace"; <snip>
Peter T. Daniels
As a linguist, I'm all too aware of the academic field called
"Communications" that seems to deal with just about everything *except*
language.
Dr.Matt
and a receiver, and the circumstance that through previously negotiated
and agreed-upon symbols, the receiver understands a specific idea that
the sender deliberately attempted to convey.
The circumstance with music, like the circumstance with chocolate
or a sunset or a painting of a sunset, is that a single person reacts
to a stimulus with special reactions---interest, and possibly a host
of emotions or imaginings or both---which were not directed or intended
by anybody else. About all an artist can do is try to elicit a
special reaction--any special reaction---right here and now, instead
of waiting for somebody to have a particularly poignant reaction to
a sunset.
Considering the circumstance of sunsets, one could argue that Le
Petit Prince, walking a few yards around his little planet to watch a
sunset at any old hour, might be straddling the border of art and
accident; or one might suggest that by flashing sunsets at a chum
in Morse Code, one could superimpose communication on top of the sunsets,
but these do not in themselves make a sunset--or a work of art--into
a communication.
My argument is simply that music is no more a communication than a
sunset is. If somebody would like to pop in and say "but sunsets are
special messages to us from God", that's their business--I understand
light-scattering enough to see that no personage other than me is
needed for me to have an aesthetic esperience of a sunset. Like
sunsets flashed in Morse code to layer meaning in, music can have
meaning layered in through some agreed-upon language, whether it's
pre-existing sound symbols and para-musical conventions, or sung (or
spoken) Italian, English, Korean, or whatever. And like the difference
between the Morse Code and the sunset, the difference between the
language and the music remains.
Because music itself does not communicate anything, listeners are
free to project upon it their own personal reactions, and thus make it
their own, in psychological terms. This
identification-with-the-abstract is a well-known strategy for drawing
audiences into experiences--- it's part of why political candidates
try to be so vague about their policies (the old "saying nothing in a
half-hour speech" strategy), why many comic-strip artists provide
detailed faces for characters *except* their protagonists, etc.
Non-communication is one of music's natural strengths as an art.
I'll let the other parties speak for their points of view, as I'd
rather not run the risk of botching them.
--
My CD "Kabala": http://www-personal.umich.edu/~fields/cd.html
Matt Fields DMA http://listen.to/mattaj TwelveToneToyBox http://start.at/tttb
For spammers: http://www-personal.umich.edu/~fields/uce.htm
More for spammers: http://www.goldinc.com/cgi-bin/harvest_this.cgi
Steve M
Daniels" <gram...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> Edwin Humphries wrote:
> >
> > G'day,
> >
> > Can anyone suggest suitable music for a orchastral
> concert for peace -
> > this being the INternational Year for the culture f
> Peace and all!
> other suggestions are choral, and I don't think you
> could do better than
> Britten's War Requiem. The UN and UNESCO regularly
> commission
> medium-length anthems whose texts deal with peace
> (Britten's "Voices for
> Today" is one of his lesser works).
> Peter T. Daniels gram...@worldnet.att.net
This is (considering subsequent postings) a troll.
Mr. Daniels, no one asked for "purely instrumental music"
that "communicates" anything. For someone who enjoys
getting pedantic about correct word usage, I'm surprised.
Note the original request:
"Can anyone suggest suitable music for a orchastral concert
for peace - this being the INternational Year for the
culture f Peace and all!"
My suggestions would be Beethoven's 9th Symphony (if a
choir is available) or maybe Copland's Fanfare for the
Common Man. Maybe Beethoven's 6th, as I'm often most
peaceful when out in the country. I'm sure that there are
more appropriate titles out there, but maybe the music is
the important part.
Oh, Bach: "Sheep may safely graze"
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Abram Plum
"Dr.Matt" wrote:
>
> What does this piece of music mean?
> http://www-personal.umich.edu/~fields/audio/midi/Sages_I.mid
>
> I'm curious what your unbiased explanation of its meaning will be.
>
Well, it seems to mean that when I click on that link I receive this message:
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~fields/audio/midi/Sages_I.mid
You have requested a resource that is not available on the
U-M Personal web server. It is difficult to
guess why this is the case on a server with so many
different, unrelated web pages, but the page, image, or
resource you requested is not available at this time.
Abram Plum
BoldRoolr
>free to project upon it their own personal reactions
So you would be overcome with a feeling of joy after hearing the Alto Rhapsody
or the Funeral March?
I think there are at least cultural conventions. Maybe some sad pieces would
not be recognized as such in Asia or Africa. But if you go to a few sad
occasions, the music you hear is of a certain kind, I think one can predict you
will react somberly to that kind of music. And that's about all you can say
about language, either.
Dr.Matt
BoldRoolr <bold...@cs.com> wrote:
>>Because music itself does not communicate anything, listeners are
>>free to project upon it their own personal reactions
>
>So you would be overcome with a feeling of joy after hearing the Alto Rhapsody
>or the Funeral March?
Most likely I'd be fascinated with the sound, if the sound
was one that I'm able to click with at all. Which Funeral March?
Why a march for a funeral, after all? Do funerals have marches?
What does this piece of music mean?
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~fields/audio/midi/Sages_I.mid
I'm curious what your unbiased explanation of its meaning will be.
>I think there are at least cultural conventions. Maybe some sad pieces would
>not be recognized as such in Asia or Africa. But if you go to a few sad
>occasions, the music you hear is of a certain kind, I think one can predict you
>will react somberly to that kind of music. And that's about all you can say
>about language, either.
Yes, at funerals, expect 120 bpm percussion and big vocal major triads.
No? You have different rules?
When I say "this is a Usenet post" I'm pretty sure you get more than
a vague feeling what the sentence is about.
Evelyn Vogt Gamble (Divamanque)
communication, even though it's not so exact as using
words. (On the other hand, S. I. Hayakawa had a lot to say
about how the same WORDS can mean different things to
different people, too.)
piper
wrote:
>Okay, where I come from, communicating involves two people, a sender
>and a receiver, and the circumstance that through previously negotiated
>and agreed-upon symbols, the receiver understands a specific idea that
>the sender deliberately attempted to convey.
[snip]
Is poetry a form of communication in your system?
And what about translation and interpretation?
piper
<gram...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>I don't see how purely instrumental music can communicate "Peace";
[snip]
You don't, then. I think the Gymnopedies communicate peace to me,
whether or not that was Satie's specific intent (I think he was
probably more motivated to shock the bourgeoisie).
Dr.Matt
Abram Plum <amp...@dave-world.net> wrote:
>
>
>"Dr.Matt" wrote:
>>
>
>> What does this piece of music mean?
>> http://www-personal.umich.edu/~fields/audio/midi/Sages_I.mid
>>
>> I'm curious what your unbiased explanation of its meaning will be.
>>
>
>http://www-personal.umich.edu/~fields/audio/midi/Sages_I.mid
>
> You have requested a resource that is not available on the
>U-M Personal web server. It is difficult to
> guess why this is the case on a server with so many
>different, unrelated web pages, but the page, image, or
> resource you requested is not available at this time.
>
>
>Abram Plum
Okay, let's try this one:
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~fields/sages/Sages_I.mid
Back to the original question.
Unbiased description of its meaning.
Peter T. Daniels
>
> On Sun, 04 Jun 2000 11:02:45 GMT, "Peter T. Daniels"
> <gram...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> >I don't see how purely instrumental music can communicate "Peace";
> [snip]
>
> You don't, then. I think the Gymnopedies communicate peace to me,
> whether or not that was Satie's specific intent (I think he was
> probably more motivated to shock the bourgeoisie).
I think the original query was about "world peace," i.e. 'absence of
war', rather than "inner peace," "comfy relaxation," etc.
Peter T. Daniels
of a chorus, and probably of a vocal soloist as well.
What would a concert "for" peace be but one that communicates "lofty
ideals" [from Dello Joio's "Jubilant Song"] ... unless, of course, a
benefit concert for some UN organization or similar ...
Steve M wrote:
>
> In article <393A37...@worldnet.att.net>, "Peter T.
> Daniels" <gram...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> > Edwin Humphries wrote:
> > >
> > > G'day,
> > >
> > > Can anyone suggest suitable music for a orchastral
> > concert for peace -
> > > this being the INternational Year for the culture f
> > Peace and all!
> > I don't see how purely instrumental music can
> > communicate "Peace"; the
> > other suggestions are choral, and I don't think you
> > could do better than
> > Britten's War Requiem. The UN and UNESCO regularly
> > commission
> > medium-length anthems whose texts deal with peace
> > (Britten's "Voices for
> > Today" is one of his lesser works).
> > --
> > Peter T. Daniels gram...@worldnet.att.net
>
> This is (considering subsequent postings) a troll.
> Mr. Daniels, no one asked for "purely instrumental music"
> that "communicates" anything. For someone who enjoys
> getting pedantic about correct word usage, I'm surprised.
> Note the original request:
>
> "Can anyone suggest suitable music for a orchastral concert
> for peace - this being the INternational Year for the
> culture f Peace and all!"
>
> My suggestions would be Beethoven's 9th Symphony (if a
> choir is available) or maybe Copland's Fanfare for the
> Common Man. Maybe Beethoven's 6th, as I'm often most
> peaceful when out in the country. I'm sure that there are
> more appropriate titles out there, but maybe the music is
> the important part.
>
> Oh, Bach: "Sheep may safely graze"
Peter T. Daniels
>
> Okay, where I come from, communicating involves two people, a sender
> and a receiver, and the circumstance that through previously negotiated
> and agreed-upon symbols, the receiver understands a specific idea that
> the sender deliberately attempted to convey.
That sounds specifically like a characterization of _language_, rather
than communication in general.
[all else is perfectly fine in that context]
BoldRoolr
>Why a march for a funeral, after all? Do funerals have marches?
Not sure. Because people walk behind the coffin? Anyway, Chopin wrote a famous
one.
Dr.Matt
piper <piper...@interport.net> wrote:
>On Sun, 04 Jun 2000 23:27:52 GMT, fie...@login.itd.umich.edu (Dr.Matt)
>
>>Okay, where I come from, communicating involves two people, a sender
>>and a receiver, and the circumstance that through previously negotiated
>>and agreed-upon symbols, the receiver understands a specific idea that
>>the sender deliberately attempted to convey.
>
>Is poetry a form of communication in your system?
Poetry involves communicative and non-communicative components.
>And what about translation and interpretation?
Since the point of translation and interpretation is usually to
preserve the meaning rather than the form, and transfer the meaning to
the mind of a person to whom it would otherwise not be accessible,
I see no problem with putting that in "communication".
>Michael
>
>To reply by email, please eliminate "NOSPAM" from my address. Personal
>messages only!
piper
<gram...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>piper wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, 04 Jun 2000 11:02:45 GMT, "Peter T. Daniels"
>> <gram...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>>
>> >I don't see how purely instrumental music can communicate "Peace";
>> [snip]
>>
>> You don't, then. I think the Gymnopedies communicate peace to me,
>> whether or not that was Satie's specific intent (I think he was
>> probably more motivated to shock the bourgeoisie).
>
>I think the original query was about "world peace," i.e. 'absence of
>war', rather than "inner peace," "comfy relaxation," etc.
My father, a painter, was asked to take part in a show for peace
during the Vietnam War. He was happy to take part, and reasoned that
nothing could be more peaceful than a still life. So he submitted some
still lives, and his work was indignantly rejected by the pinheads
who, it seems to me, were making the same mistake you are, i.e. that
work that is about "peace" has to make a baldly political anti-war
statement by, for example, showing an ugly image of war (regardless of
the quality of the work, by the way, but that's another issue) rather
than a beautiful, harmonious image of peace.
Steve M
Daniels" <gram...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> Sorry, but "orchestral concert" pretty much rules out
> the participation
> of a chorus, and probably of a vocal soloist as well.
> What would a concert "for" peace be but one that
> communicates "lofty
> ideals" [from Dello Joio's "Jubilant Song"] ...
> unless, of course, a
> benefit concert for some UN organization or similar ...
But you've started arguing on semantics of your
interpretation of a question, rather than on the original.
Is there not one orchestral piece that puts you in a
peaceful mood? (I'll agree with your comments on vocals)
It would be appropriate, IMO, if only because peace has to
start at an individual level. Orchestral arrangements of
some of the choral works mentioned in this thread would be
applicable too.
I'd like to suggest "Morning" from the Pier Gynt suite, and
the Hebrides by Mendohlson (apologies for any spelling
errors). "Peacefull" works, even if they
don't "communicate" that.
Steve M
listen to thunderstorms, or waves crashing. I find it
peaceful. YMMV, of course, but I'm sure we could find
something that's going to lull you into peaceful feelings.
Dr.Matt
Steve M <stephenm...@hmresources.com.au.invalid> wrote:
>Well, yes, but then, I like to lie in bed at night and
>listen to thunderstorms, or waves crashing. I find it
>peaceful. YMMV, of course, but I'm sure we could find
>something that's going to lull you into peaceful feelings.
Modern recorded thunderstorms sound more like thunderstorms
than anything Beethoven ever wrote. Do we stop listening
to Beethoven, or is there something else we listen to Beethoven
for?
Steve M
fie...@login.itd.umich.edu (Dr.Matt) wrote:
> In article
> <32d0cd4f...@usw-ex0109-068.remarq.com>,
> Steve M <stephenm...@hmresources.com.au.invalid>
> wrote:
> >Well, yes, but then, I like to lie in bed at night and
> >listen to thunderstorms, or waves crashing. I find it
> >peaceful. YMMV, of course, but I'm sure we could find
> >something that's going to lull you into peaceful
> feelings.
> Modern recorded thunderstorms sound more like
> thunderstorms
> than anything Beethoven ever wrote. Do we stop
> listening
> to Beethoven, or is there something else we listen to
> Beethoven
> for?
Sorry, I should insert originals that I'm answering. The
post I answered was where Peter suggested that music about
storms wasn't peaceful, so I stated that storms for me
*are*. Musical or real. My mother in law is very
uncomfortable on windy nights, ever since a tree fell on
her, so I doubt she'd agree with my sentiment. Just goes
to show that different things (especially music) bring
different responses, I guess.
Oisk17
from Peer Gynt, for example) I can also suggest "Sunset" from Grofe's Grand
Canyon Suite.
Regards,
Paul