PLEASE I NEED HELP ON SINGING!I AM NOVICE!
starosme
1)First of all i would like to know where i should put each vowel
sound inside my mouth.I have read that the sound must pe put in the
front part, close to the upper lip.Is that true?
Does the placement change according to whether a note is high or low?
2)Where should the vibrato be placed?I have problem with vibrato on my
low notes.i also have problems with voice turning on the low notes as
i feel i can't find enough resistance(if you understand what i mean).
Thank you all for your time!
e.g(i am more interested in pop and rock music.)
e.g2(i am male)
Matthew B. Tepper
to be typed in news:aa17ab7.02112...@posting.google.com:
Then you should find a professional teacher who specializes in such
fields. Asking in newsgroups devoted to early music and opera may not be
the best way to achieve your goal.
> e.g2(i am male)
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Mark Coy tossed off eBay? http://makeashorterlink.com/?M2B734C02
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
starosme wrote:
>
> Hello.I am novice so i would like to ask some questions about singing.
> 1)First of all i would like to know where i should put each vowel
> sound inside my mouth.I have read that the sound must pe put in the
> front part, close to the upper lip.Is that true?
> Does the placement change according to whether a note is high or low?
> 2)Where should the vibrato be placed?I have problem with vibrato on my
> low notes.i also have problems with voice turning on the low notes as
> i feel i can't find enough resistance(if you understand what i mean).
I don't mean to sound insulting, but if you really know that little
about it, I'd suggest that the place to start is with a good voice
teacher, not questions to an opera newsgroup! (Although many of the
posters here are singers - some of them quite accomplished, I think -
singing is NOT something you can learn from words alone, you need a live
person listening to what you do, and making suggestions to correct
whatever you, personally, are not doing correctly.)
>
> Thank you all for your time!
> e.g(i am more interested in pop and rock music.)
There's really no difference, when it comes to singing correctly - it's
just that singers of pop and rock can get by without learning to sing
(but your voice will last longer if you do).
Brendan R. Wehrung
> ia...@yahoo.com (starosme) appears to have caused the following letters
> to be typed in news:aa17ab7.02112...@posting.google.com:
>
>> Hello.I am novice so i would like to ask some questions about singing.
>> 1)First of all i would like to know where i should put each vowel
>> sound inside my mouth.I have read that the sound must pe put in the
>> front part, close to the upper lip.Is that true?
>> Does the placement change according to whether a note is high or low?
>> 2)Where should the vibrato be placed?I have problem with vibrato on my
>> low notes.i also have problems with voice turning on the low notes as
>> i feel i can't find enough resistance(if you understand what i mean).
>>
>> Thank you all for your time!
>> e.g(i am more interested in pop and rock music.)
>
> Then you should find a professional teacher who specializes in such
> fields. Asking in newsgroups devoted to early music and opera may not be
> the best way to achieve your goal.
>
>> e.g2(i am male)
>
He could always ask Ken B. Lane...
Brendan
Mark D Lew
ia...@yahoo.com (starosme) wrote:
> Hello.I am novice so i would like to ask some questions about singing.
> 1)First of all i would like to know where i should put each vowel
> sound inside my mouth.I have read that the sound must pe put in the
> front part, close to the upper lip.Is that true?
> Does the placement change according to whether a note is high or low?
"Placement" is, ultimately, an illusory concept. It can be very useful as
a way of describing the sensations the singer feels as a result of subtle
muscular changes, but since there is no true physical place where the sound
resides it's not very helpful to try to get physiologically specific.
I tend toward the view that placement should be constant regardless of
vowel or pitch, but it's a subjective term. When working with a singer,
I'll go along with whatever words result in him making a good sound.
(I have observed that, with many but not all amateur singers, asking for a
more forward placement frequently results in the singer giving better
breath support, and for that reason I will sometimes try making that
suggestion. As far as I'm concerned, this is a psychological trick and it
has nothing to do with any actual "placement" of the voice.)
> 2)Where should the vibrato be placed?I have problem with vibrato on my
> low notes.i also have problems with voice turning on the low notes as
> i feel i can't find enough resistance(if you understand what i mean).
No, I don't understand what you mean. I can't imagine what placement of
vibrato could be. I would suggest that you don't make a conscious effort
to create vibrato at all. If your voice is properly relaxed and supported
with breath, the vibrato will usually take care of itself. An attempt to
create a vibrato which isn't already there will generally result in adding
muscular tension.
All of the questions you ask are of the sort that can't easily be answered
without one-on-one observation. You would be well advised not to give too
much weight to advice on vocal technique from me or anyone else who has
never heard your voice.
mdl
Peter T. Daniels
> There's really no difference, when it comes to singing correctly - it's
> just that singers of pop and rock can get by without learning to sing
> (but your voice will last longer if you do).
Are you suggesting that Sinatra, Crosby, Barbara Cook didn't have superb
technique?
Even the laziest groaner has to learn the use of the microphone, a
musical instrument invented in the 1920s.
Yesterday Susan Stamberg did a report & interview on Rod Stewart's new
album of American standards, and even that threadbare voice -- abused
for nearly 40 years now -- is capable of moving results on the basis of
pure vocal technique.
--
Peter T. Daniels gram...@att.net
Mark D Lew
<gram...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> Are you suggesting that Sinatra, Crosby, Barbara Cook didn't have superb
> technique?
I don't know Barbara Cook, but the first two had excellent technique. I
assume that Evelyn had others in mind when she was denigrating "pop and
rock" singers.
mdl
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
"Peter T. Daniels" wrote:
>
> EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote:
>
> > There's really no difference, when it comes to singing correctly - it's
> > just that singers of pop and rock can get by without learning to sing
> > (but your voice will last longer if you do).
>
> Are you suggesting that Sinatra, Crosby, Barbara Cook didn't have superb
> technique?
On the contrary, I'm saying that the reason Sinatra, Crosby, et al
(sorry, I never heard of Barbara Cook) had lengthy careers is because
they DID use their voices correctly, even though they sang with
microphones and the style of singing was different from opera. Another
I'd include is the late John Denver - I heard him on a Christmas TV
broadcast one year, where he sang a couple of carols "straight", and it
was clear that he had a trained voice, even though he chose a
country-western style, most of the time.
Brendan R. Wehrung
> EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote:
>
>> There's really no difference, when it comes to singing correctly - it's
>> just that singers of pop and rock can get by without learning to sing
>> (but your voice will last longer if you do).
>
> Are you suggesting that Sinatra, Crosby, Barbara Cook didn't have superb
> technique?
>
> Even the laziest groaner has to learn the use of the microphone, a
> musical instrument invented in the 1920s.
>
a *musical* instrument?
> Yesterday Susan Stamberg did a report & interview on Rod Stewart's new
> album of American standards, and even that threadbare voice -- abused
> for nearly 40 years now -- is capable of moving results on the basis of
> pure vocal technique.
> --
I just read an article about the latest toy, which is a voice-correcting
program (which yes, would use a microphone) which will make even the most
threadbare voice sound on-pitch, fuller, maybe even phrase better.
Whether that makes the computer (or the chip buried in the karaoke device)
a musical instrument or not is up to you. What would Ken Lane say?
Brendan
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
I WASN'T "denigrating" pop and rock singers! (I don't much care for the
latter, but that's a matter of personal taste.) Re-read what I said,
please. That there IS no difference, in terms of singing correctly -
that a pop-singer who uses his/her voice correctly can look forward to a
long career, whereas one who does not will not last very long. (That's
simply pointing out a truth - one quite effectively demonstrated by
singers like Crosby and Sinatra.)
>
> mdl
Steve
"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote:
Cook is wonderful--still--and as an added bonus, she's still alive and
working!
Steve Bornfeld
Flavio "Senesino" FBG
> There's really no difference, when it comes to singing correctly - it's
> just that singers of pop and rock can get by without learning to sing
> (but your voice will last longer if you do).
Exactly. There is a "basic" technique that applies to any sort of singing.
This implies correct breathing and phonation. If this fails, no matter you
are a pop/rock, oratorio or opera singer, you will fall down very soon.
Best regards,
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Flavio Ferri Benedetti *** High Countertenor
Official Website --- http://www.caffarelli.net
"Nunc scio quid sit amor" (Virgilio, Bucoliche, VIII-43)
Flavio "Senesino" FBG
> a way of describing the sensations the singer feels as a result of subtle
> muscular changes, but since there is no true physical place where the
sound
> resides it's not very helpful to try to get physiologically specific.
I agree that it is useful, but placement "is" real, for what I am concerned.
Resonation *does* happen in several, different places around the cavities
of your head and chest. It would be somehow fool to let aside the fact that
you need to know how to resonate "in" your nose, "in" the back of your head,
etc. The cavities *are* there, and the sound *does* resonate in them.
> All of the questions you ask are of the sort that can't easily be answered
> without one-on-one observation. You would be well advised not to give too
> much weight to advice on vocal technique from me or anyone else who has
> never heard your voice.
Very much agreed.
Peter T. Daniels
Also, not long ago I mentioned Chet Baker -- primarily a trumpetist, he
started doing vocals in the early 50s and barely changed over nearly 40
years, except that he seems to have had ill-fitting dentures, so that
his singing from ca. 1970 on is very hard to listen to. But that first
album (excerpted in *The Talented Mr. Ripley*) is ethereal, and he stuck
with suitable repertoire for the next few.
Peter T. Daniels
Barbara Cook created such roles as Cunegonde in *Candide*, the Salvation
Army lassie in *Guys and Dolls*, Marian the Librarian in *The Music
Man*, the girl in *She Loves Me*, and did a famous revival of
*Carousel*; now in her early 70s she has a new career as a cabaret
singer.
I should have included Rosemary Clooney, whom I heard at Grant Park's
Opening Night in 1996 (also past 70) -- one of the greatest concerts
ever.
Peter T. Daniels
> I just read an article about the latest toy, which is a voice-correcting
> program (which yes, would use a microphone) which will make even the most
> threadbare voice sound on-pitch, fuller, maybe even phrase better.
> Whether that makes the computer (or the chip buried in the karaoke device)
> a musical instrument or not is up to you. What would Ken Lane say?
Doesn't much matter -- he has poor taste in engineers. (He played
excerpts from a couple of his albums at the appearance I went to, though
he didn't sing at all, and the one from 1980 was recorded a lot worse
than the one from 195X.)
dtritter
rec.music.classical, to no particular effect of intelligence, now seeks
to join rec.music.opera with his deafpost musings. barbara cook did not
sing in the original "guys and dolls," a show before her broadway
arrival. isabel bigley created the role. cook made her first mark in
"plain and fancy." thanks for nothing, daniels.
dft
==========================================
Steve
"Peter T. Daniels" wrote:
Only recently heard Chet Baker's singing for the first time--a recording played
on Jonathan Schwartz' radio program. He certainly didn't "push" his voice, which
would account for his voice's longevity (don't know how the rest of what I've heard
of his notoriously difficult life would have effected it). It must have been an
early recording--didn't hear any rattling dentures.
To my untrained ears, Tony Bennet has always pushed his voice--and somehow
still can. Is he the exception that proves the rule?
Steve Bornfeld
Michael Haslam
> this buffoon who posts not less than a dozen times daily on
> rec.music.classical, to no particular effect of intelligence, now
> seeks to join rec.music.opera with his deafpost musings. barbara cook
> did not sing in the original "guys and dolls," a show before her
> broadway arrival. isabel bigley created the role. cook made her first
> mark in "plain and fancy." thanks for nothing, daniels.
>
> dft
Daniels's use of the word <new> in conjunction with the present tense to
describe Ms Cook's career as a cabaret singer is confusing. I heard her
in cabaret about fifteen years ago.
MJHaslam
Peter J King
> Also, not long ago I mentioned Chet Baker -- primarily a trumpetist
> [sic], he started doing vocals in the early 50s and barely changed over
> nearly 40 years [...]
That can't be the Chet Baker I know then; his well-documented decline
almost parallels Billie Holiday's (the loss of his teeth was a result of
his heroin habit), though admittedly his performances weren't as badly
afected as hers.
PJK
Peter T. Daniels
>
> dtritter wrote:
>
> > this buffoon who posts not less than a dozen times daily on
> > rec.music.classical, to no particular effect of intelligence, now
> > seeks to join rec.music.opera with his deafpost musings. barbara cook
> > did not sing in the original "guys and dolls," a show before her
> > broadway arrival. isabel bigley created the role. cook made her first
> > mark in "plain and fancy." thanks for nothing, daniels.
Without knowing which ng the original poster is posting from, I can't
delete any newsgroups, so my posting was forced to appear in a place
where the cretin tritter could see it.
Sorry about the *Guys and Dolls*. Why'd you leave out *Greenwillow*?
> Daniels's use of the word <new> in conjunction with the present tense to
> describe Ms Cook's career as a cabaret singer is confusing. I heard her
> in cabaret about fifteen years ago.
That is a new career; she left Broadway (I think after *She Loves Me*,
ca. 1965) and returned from retirement only recently. ("Fifteen years
ago" would be some 20 years after her last Broadway gig. 20 years is
long enough to count as a "new career" -- and perhaps what you saw was a
tryout in the sticks, the provinces, out of town, i.e. London? -- and
since she still performs in public, the present tense is still
appropriate.)
> >> Barbara Cook created such roles as Cunegonde in *Candide*, the Salvation
> >> Army lassie in *Guys and Dolls*, Marian the Librarian in *The Music
> >> Man*, the girl in *She Loves Me*, and did a famous revival of
> >> *Carousel*; now in her early 70s she has a new career as a cabaret
> >> singer.
> >>
> >> I should have included Rosemary Clooney, whom I heard at Grant Park's
> >> Opening Night in 1996 (also past 70) -- one of the greatest concerts
> >> ever.
> >
> >
--
Peter T. Daniels gram...@att.net
Peter T. Daniels
After seeing the movie I _had_ to get that recording and came across
*The Definitive Chet Baker*, which has a track or two from each of a lot
of sessions (instrumental and vocal), which is how I know about the
problems later; that first 1953 session is (I think) *Chet Baker Sings*,
or, much more economically (it seems to combine three LPs) *The Best of
Chet Baker Sings*.
I can't listen to Jonathan Schwartz -- he talks too much, and he talks
about himself too much.
I don't think it's because I saw *Martin and Lewis* last night, but I
think I like Dean Martin better than Tony Bennett ...
Speaking of which, what's the date of Saber Dance? Could Jerry Lewis
really have mimed an orchestra performance from a record in 1943? (It
seemed more like Jack McFarlane as Jerry Lewis than Sean Hayes as Jerry
Lewis, which is too bad, because Sean Hayes _has_ recently done work
that got completely away from his most familiar character.)
and it could be because of Schwartzian overexposure that I grow less
enchanged with Sinatra ...
Peter T. Daniels
The quality of his dentures was not a result of his heroin habit. And
his trumpet-playing was likely more affected by his dentition than his
singing was, but I'm not attuned to jazz instrumentals.
(What does heroin have to do with tooth loss? or was he in the habit of
getting punched in the face for not paying up?)
Michael Haslam
>
>After seeing the movie I _had_ to get that recording and came across
>*The Definitive Chet Baker*, which has a track or two from each of a lot
>of sessions (instrumental and vocal), which is how I know about the
>problems later; that first 1953 session is (I think) *Chet Baker Sings*,
>or, much more economically (it seems to combine three LPs) *The Best of
>Chet Baker Sings*.
>
>I can't listen to Jonathan Schwartz -- he talks too much, and he talks
>about himself too much.
>
ROTFLMAO!
>
>I don't think it's because I saw *Martin and Lewis* last night, but I
>think I like Dean Martin better than Tony Bennett ...
>
>Speaking of which, what's the date of Saber Dance? Could Jerry Lewis
>really have mimed an orchestra performance from a record in 1943? (It
>seemed more like Jack McFarlane as Jerry Lewis than Sean Hayes as Jerry
>Lewis, which is too bad, because Sean Hayes _has_ recently done work
>that got completely away from his most familiar character.)
>
>and it could be because of Schwartzian overexposure that I grow less
>enchanged with Sinatra ...
>
MJHaslam
>
>
Peter T. Daniels
>
> Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
> >
> >After seeing the movie I _had_ to get that recording and came across
> >*The Definitive Chet Baker*, which has a track or two from each of a lot
> >of sessions (instrumental and vocal), which is how I know about the
> >problems later; that first 1953 session is (I think) *Chet Baker Sings*,
> >or, much more economically (it seems to combine three LPs) *The Best of
> >Chet Baker Sings*.
> >
> >I can't listen to Jonathan Schwartz -- he talks too much, and he talks
> >about himself too much.
> >
>
> ROTFLMAO!
I take it this is a reference to autobiographical anecdotery. The
difference is that I'm not doing it on a radio broadcast ostensibly
dedicated to mid-20th-century American popular music.
daniel f. tritter
carnegie hall, then at the st. regis, etc. daniels is a self-confessed fount of
information, isn't he?
dft
daniel f. tritter
etc.
cook's cabaret reincarnation began thirty (30, daniels, for those of us who can
count) years ago. i was there, and i know the guys that jumpstarted it, with the
very considerable assistance of wally harper.
about the only thing daniels can get right ... are we surprised? ... is the
spelling of "c-r-e-t-i-n," though some spell it d-a-n-i-e-l-s.
leave us. you smell.
dft
=======================
Michael Haslam
...but on public forums dedicated to reminiscences from Cornell and
Grant Park 1969-1984, with a few asides including comic mags from the
1950s and Tower Records 1995-present, yeah right. As noted previously,
you can dish it out but you can't take it.
MJHaslam
Robert Briggs
> He could always ask Ken B. Lane...
Brendan!
How *could* you suggest that to a self-proclaimed novice?
Shame on you ...
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
"Peter T. Daniels" wrote:
I can't disagree. But I only listen on my way home from the office on Saturdays.
A couple of weeks ago he had John Lahr on (chief drama critic, I believe, for the New
Yorker, and Bert's son). I was amazed to find that, for fifteen minutes or so, Schwartz
couldn't get a word in edgewise!
As annoying as Schwartz can get, he's probably a nicer guy than I--see his unalloyed
support of Rod Stewart's new album. And I'm a pretty nice guy.
Steve
>
>
> I don't think it's because I saw *Martin and Lewis* last night, but I
> think I like Dean Martin better than Tony Bennett ...
>
> Speaking of which, what's the date of Saber Dance? Could Jerry Lewis
> really have mimed an orchestra performance from a record in 1943? (It
> seemed more like Jack McFarlane as Jerry Lewis than Sean Hayes as Jerry
> Lewis, which is too bad, because Sean Hayes _has_ recently done work
> that got completely away from his most familiar character.)
>
> and it could be because of Schwartzian overexposure that I grow less
> enchanged with Sinatra ...
> --
> Peter T. Daniels gram...@att.net
--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
"Peter T. Daniels" wrote:
As far as I know, there's no direct relationship between narcotic use and
bad teeth. Addicts basically don't take care of themselves. I once made a
full set of dentures for a supposedly clean former addict who was 24.
Steve
Matthew B. Tepper
news:3DE27531...@bway.net:
> daniels scores again. cook was not in "greenwillow" ever, b'way,
> dinner theater, etc.
Ah yes, "Greenwillow," the evil of two lessers.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Mark Coy tossed off eBay? http://makeashorterlink.com/?M2B734C02
Peter T. Daniels
>
> "daniel f. tritter" <dtri...@bway.net> wrote in
> news:3DE27531...@bway.net:
>
> > daniels scores again. cook was not in "greenwillow" ever, b'way,
> > dinner theater, etc.
>
> Ah yes, "Greenwillow," the evil of two lessers.
Then what, please, was the name of the flop Miss Cook was in? Something
about a tree, certainly ...
And if I go dig out my cassette of *Greenwillow* and find that it was
indeed she, the wrath will be unbounded.
dtritter
go get it, you fatheaded wannabe and come back to report to rmo what an
idiot you are. your wrath? what an awesome concept. fuck yourself, as a
noted poster here would have it, up, down and sideways
then, leave us. you smell.
dft
Ken Moore
<gram...@worldnet.att.net> writes
>Speaking of which, what's the date of Saber Dance? Could Jerry Lewis
>really have mimed an orchestra performance from a record in 1943?
I believe it's from the ballet "Gayane", which Khachaturian wrote in
1942 and which was immediately popular.
(Relatively early music(:-)
--
Ken Moore
K.C....@reading.ac.uk
pg composition student, University of Reading
John P.
> starosme wrote:
> >
> > Hello.I am novice so i would like to ask some questions about singing.
> > 1)First of all i would like to know where i should put each vowel
> > sound inside my mouth.I have read that the sound must pe put in the
> > front part, close to the upper lip.Is that true?
> > Does the placement change according to whether a note is high or low?
> > 2)Where should the vibrato be placed?I have problem with vibrato on my
> > low notes.i also have problems with voice turning on the low notes as
> > i feel i can't find enough resistance(if you understand what i mean).
>
> I don't mean to sound insulting, but if you really know that little
> about it, I'd suggest that the place to start is with a good voice
> teacher, not questions to an opera newsgroup! (Although many of the
> posters here are singers - some of them quite accomplished, I think -
> singing is NOT something you can learn from words alone, you need a live
> person listening to what you do, and making suggestions to correct
> whatever you, personally, are not doing correctly.)
>
> >
Many of the posters in opera newsgroups write as it they are highly
qualified to teach voice. Do you think that maybe they are not?
Matthew B. Tepper
news:59e6beee.02112...@posting.google.com:
That very thought has occurred to me.
Andrea
<< Exactly. There is a "basic" technique that applies to any sort of singing. This implies correct
breathing and phonation. If this fails, no matter you are a pop/rock, oratorio or opera singer,
you will fall down very soon. >>
I agree. Abdominal breathing and air control is essential, and also the technique I know as the
"yawn" technique, which was taught to me, consisting of hollowing the soft palate and locating
the voice there, making it sound more "round". Supported by good breathing, it will definitely
help sing high as well as intermediate or low notes. I'm a soprano.
I took my first singing lessons when I was 17 and now I'm 43... and I've sung all kinds of music
over the years, orchestrated as well as a cappella. I hope my advice is useful to anyone who wants
to study singing.
C ya,
Andrea
Flavio "Senesino" FBG
technique I know as the
> "yawn" technique, which was taught to me, consisting of hollowing the soft
palate and locating
> the voice there, making it sound more "round". Supported by good
breathing, it will definitely
> help sing high as well as intermediate or low notes. I'm a soprano.
The "yawn" really helps - it is wonderful, if well used :) One should
care not to over-yawn otherwise it would stress the throat on the long
term.
Best regards!
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Flavio Ferri Benedetti *** High Countertenor
Official Website --- http://www.caffarelli.net
"Nunc scio quid sit amor" (Virgilio, Bucoliche, VIII-43)
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
Did I say that? They may well be extremely successful and
well-qualified, but how can anyone teach singing by proxy? (I think all
of them would agree that they must at least HEAR the student, to know
whether their precepts are being observed.)
Andrea
<< The "yawn" really helps - it is wonderful, if well used :) One should care not to
over-yawn
otherwise it would stress the throat on the long term. Best regards! >>
Hi Flavio,
I was taught the "yawn" technique when I was 17, and I remember that our conductor
insisted
so much on using it correctly, together with the abdominal breathing, that while
practising
during the rehearsal, I ended up *really* yawning.. I mean it! *lol* It was very funny,
because
all of a sudden I began to feel sleepy... :oD
But you're right, one shouldn't overdo it. We're both talking here about using it
correctly. Luckily
I've never stressed my throat when singing, so maybe that means that I've never overdone
the use
of the technique :o)
BTW, interesting website!
C ya,
Andrea