NY Sun: New York Drops Off the List Of Big Five' Orchestras
Premise Checker
December 5, 2006
http://www.nysun.com/article/44570 et seq.
January 2, 2007 edition
By FRED KIRSHNIT
Special to the Sun
December 5, 2006
Since the 1950s, the concept of the "Big Five" American orchestras
has held sway and influenced ticket buyers to attend what are
ostensibly the most reliably consistent performances. Here in New
York, the grouping is especially significant: Each of these
orchestras appears in town every year. The time is right for a
radical realignment and a revamped "Big Five" is in order.
IN: THE PITTSBURGH SYMPHONY
Mariss Jansons accomplished miracles as an orchestra builder. The
group was very good under William Steinberg in the 1950s and even
survived the Lorin Maazel years, but Mr. Jansons, son of the
Latvian conductor Arvid Jansons, brought with him a solid sense of
discipline and an incredibly detailed approach to the maximizing of
inner voices. Right now, it is the cleanest, crispest ensemble in
America. The wind section alone is worth the price of admission.
Tonight the Pittsburgh Symphony appears at Carnegie Hall, so you
can judge for yourself.
But music director Mr. Jansons recently announced his intention to
move back to Europe permanently, taking over not one, but two of
the world's finest ensembles, and leaving Heinz Hall forever.
Now the powers that be have spent their money not on a new music
director but rather on spin doctors. The new paradigm is for the
orchestra to be led by Sir Andrew Davis, Yan Pascal Tortelier, and
Marek Janowski. And apparently, the twain shall never meet. The
plan is for each conductor to instill his own ethnicity into the
mix and for the public to swoon with delight at the innovation. The
board had better be prepared to authorize a lot of expensive
rehearsal time.
OUT: THE PHILADELPHIA ORCHESTRA
Despite having been so good for so long, the Philadelphia Orchestra
has quite recently lost its edge. After enjoying the heralded
reigns of Stokowski, Ormandy, Muti and Sawallisch, all of whom
preserved that patented "fabulous Philadelphians" sound, the
players were extremely upset by management's decision, taken
unilaterally and without consultation, to hire Christoph
Eschenbach. That signature sound is now unraveling at the seams.
In 2004 at Carnegie Hall, Mr. Eschenbach milked the last movement
of Mahler's Symphony No. 3 shamelessly he had undoubtedly practiced
each preening gesture in front of a mirror. The "I'll Be Seeing
You" theme was drawn out into an almost unrecognizable length of
pulled taffy: Even Liberace performed it less histrionically. He
does look good up there like Yul Brynner in "Once More With
Feeling" but, isn't it the sound that counts? Give me the dumpy Mr.
Ormandy any day.
But there is hope: Mr. Eschenbach recently announced that he will
not seek a contract extension after 2008.
IN: THE CINCINNATI SYMPHONY
The demographic of James Levine's hometown is largely Germanic and
they are the proud boosters of the oldest symphony hall in America.
A fine ensemble under Schippers, Gielen, and Lopez-Cobos, the
orchestra has truly blossomed under the son of another world-class
conductor. Paavo Jarvi has proven to be the finest of his
generation, a sensitive and result-oriented maestro. Nurtured in a
great tradition since birth but still independent enough to
challenge it, Mr. Jarvi has made his mark decisively and with great
panache. The orchestra has never sounded better and presents
interesting and varied programming on a regular basis.
OUT: THE CLEVELAND ORCHESTRA
The finest orchestra in America in the 1960s, with the sainted
George Szell on the podium, occupied Severance Hall. The group also
had a pretty good assistant conductor named Jimmy Levine. It later
survived Maestro Maazel's rather sloppy legacy and tightened up
once again under the iron hand of Christoph von Dohnanyi.
Everything seemed to be going its way, until its board made a
decision that can only be described as screwy.
Austrian Franz Welser-Moest had a terrible reputation when chosen
to take over. Crucified by the British press they quickly dubbed
him "Frankly Worst Than Most" he was hunted down in London as
relentlessly as Bill Sykes. His tenure at the head of their
Philharmonic was not just stormy but deeply unsatisfying for
audiences at the Royal Festival Hall.
In Cleveland, performances have been uniformly poor, unpopular with
both patrons and critics alike. For four years now, Maestro has
brought his charges to Carnegie and my critical reaction has been
somewhat subdued as I have been forced to concentrate on physically
controlling my impulses to shudder on a regular basis.
IN: THE LOS ANGELES PHILHARMONIC
Nobody in this part of the world seems to know how good this
ensemble really is, but this, I believe, is strictly a matter of
East Coast superciliousness. Esa-Pekka Salonen is a dynamic,
exciting presence, and a first-rate composer to boot. His ability
to prod his forces into extraordinary bursts of color while still
keeping proper balance allows the left coast Phil to dance on winds
positively fairy-blown. The strings are lush but nimble, the
woodwinds precise and poetic, the brass warm and accurate, the
percussion bright and crisp. All are allowed to let loose in a
rather elastic manner. Perhaps Mr. Salonen's secret is a palpable
confidence that allows his players to breathe freely while still
under his strict control. Whatever the formula, he has applied it
exceptionally well. For 20th century music, this is the band of
choice.
OUT: THE NEW YORK PHILHARMONIC
Not even the best orchestra on the plaza.
Limiting our discussion to the modern era, the local Phil has been
deficient for a long time. A pedestrian string sound, a tendency to
lose intonation as a piece drags along, an inconsistent trumpet
section, and a sometimes frightful set of French horns are just
background for an ensemble that often seems to have little
investment in its own performances. Add to the ensemble's
frustrating nonchalance a conductor in Lorin Maazel who simply
cannot leave a piece alone and the net result is often blaring,
leadfooted, and embarrassing. The worst part may be that, on
certain evenings, they can still conjure a decent performance. At
Avery Fisher, it often seems that attitude is more critical than
aptitude.
ON THE BUBBLE: THE CHICAGO SYMPHONY
No change in status, but the future is key. The annoyingly
inconsistent reign of Daniel Barenboim is finally over. Who will
shepherd this great group going forward? Rumor has it that the very
talented Kent Nagano will leave troubled Montreal and settle on
Michigan Avenue. Under steward Pierre Boulez, the group appears in
town later this week.
HANGING ON: THE BOSTON SYMPHONY
In the late 1990s, Seiji Ozawa became the most infamous victim in
Massachusetts since Sacco and Vanzetti. His troubles began with The
Great Nutcracker War, when he took his orchestra to Asia in
November and December 1996, leaving the city without a season of
Christmas music performances. Then he dared to assert his
leadership at the Tanglewood festival, replacing certain key
personnel who were beloved by the press. The crushing blow came
from New York critics, who wrote articles claiming the BSO had lost
all professionalism and that its sound was devoid of proper
intonation and balance. This avalanche of disrespect eventually led
to Mr. Ozawa abandoning his lifelong artistic project and signing
on with the Vienna State Opera, where, I am happy to report,
everyone loves him.
Now James Levine is in charge and this should save the day. But
some of his performances have been blowsy and imbalanced, as
witness the recent sour Brahms First at Carnegie Hall.
Without question, Mr. Boulez is correct when he states, "Music is
not the Olympics." Yet it is natural for critics and audience
members to rank performing groups based on their overall abilities.
With today's high ticket prices, don't we want to have some
assurances that the concert will be worth it?
The American 'Big Five Orchestras' - Reader comments at The New York
Sun
http://www.nysun.com/comments/3881
[You'll have to click the URL to get the others.]
Submitted by John L. Turner, MD, Dec 6, 2006 09:38
The concept of the Big Five among Among Orchestras has long made
sense. The Boston Symphony, Chicago Symphony, and Philadelphia
Orchestra have, for a very long time, produced orchestral playing
of outstanding quality, with players superior to others in the
world and long tenures of Music Directors -- in most cases longer
than anywhere else. The New York Philharmonic is the result of a
merger of two predecessor Organizations, and as such, rivals the
longest orchestra in the world, the Lepzig Gewandhaus. The
Cleveland Orchestra has been included largely because of the tenure
of George Szell, although there were earlier conductors who had
good results there, too. For about the past 25 years, the notion
has arisen as to whether or not to speak of an American 'Big Five'
was entirely accurate, necessary, or appropriate; many others have
been mentioned as possible 'candidates' in this elite group,
including: San Francisco SO; Seattle SO; Los Angeles Philharmonic;
St. Louis SO; Minneapolis/Minnesota SO; Cincinnatti SO; Atlanta SO;
and the Pittspurgh SO -- often depending on a mixture of sustained
quality, Music Director tenures; endowments; Music Critics'
writing; and recording contracts/broadcasts. In just the past few
years, the 'unthankable' has happened: New York is not in the
running. Salaries for players are not the highest; no one is in
sight as possible Music Director; fund-raising is, relatively,
down; there is no long-term guaranteed recording contract (nor is
there one for Chicago, Boston, or Cleveland); and the Philharmonic
is losing players to other ensembles, while keeping an unpleasant
feeling of players who do not 'play well together nor with a
Conductor'.
Sixteen American Orchestras have recording contracts, and
broadcasting is returning. Only one of the 'Big Five' has:
recording; broadcasting; expanding endowment; a new hall which is
nicely fine-tuned; an enormous pipe organ in the hall, unveiled
last Season; and but one Music Director who proved terribly
disappointing - Ricardo Muti. Stokowski and Ormandy held the post
for 68 years; Sawallisch held the post for ten years, Eschenbach
will leave after five (largely due to some terriible
miscalculations on the part of one critic, and a few other things).
The Philadelphia has a new President, who had best earn his
reputation of 'being connected' and 'negotiation' quickly. In any
event, Philadelphia's Orchestra is in the best shape by far of the
'Big Five', and there is no clear reason to revise the 'concept' --
only the Orchestras.
John L. Turner, MD, Deptford, New Jersey
______________________________________________________________
Note: Comments are screened, and in some cases edited, before
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great article [19 words]
Dec 25, 2006 21:59
Wow [30 words]
Neil L. King
Dec 11, 2006 09:43
Subjective appraisals [104 words]
Forrest
Dec 10, 2006 15:08
NY Philharmonic [85 words]
George
Dec 9, 2006 11:20
Stupid commentary [49 words]
Pierre Medard
Dec 9, 2006 11:12
"unilaterally and without consultation" [56 words]
RAD
Dec 8, 2006 14:56
What a Silly Exercise! [67 words]
D. Th. J.
Dec 7, 2006 19:23
No credibility on a trivial issue [387 words]
Brian
Dec 7, 2006 16:02
According to Whom? [13 words]
Patricia
Dec 7, 2006 10:11
I feel bad for you [157 words]
An maestro that will remain nameless
Dec 6, 2006 18:18
Let's examine individual players [228 words]
Steven Honigberg
Dec 6, 2006 17:37
Yes, there are lots of great orchestras [222 words]
Marko Velikonja
Dec 6, 2006 14:20
Good Call [102 words]
pa
Dec 6, 2006 14:05
"Big 5" was always a marketing concept, anyway [246 words]
Bruce B.
Dec 6, 2006 12:56
=> The American 'Big Five Orchestras' [410 words]
John L. Turner, MD
Dec 6, 2006 09:38
<-> Big 5 Concept is Long Dead [26 words]
Marvin E. Gozum, MD
Dec 8, 2006 07:48
Another New York Phil Hater? Maybe! [115 words]
Lloyd Paguia Arriola
Dec 6, 2006 04:42
What is the Purpose? [464 words]
Ken
Dec 5, 2006 21:13
Why is he still here? [31 words]
sh
Dec 5, 2006 11:04
<-> Yes - the gentleman is a windbag. [33 words]
Laura Waterland
Dec 6, 2006 08:00
<-> In defense of Maestro Lorin Maazel [588 words]
Mark Stenroos
Dec 6, 2006 13:56
<-> The Big 5 Live On For Good Reasons [457 words]
Mark B
Dec 6, 2006 17:04
<-> Huh? [27 words]
Michael
Dec 6, 2006 18:46
<-> Huh? [27 words]
Michael
Dec 6, 2006 18:48
<-> Dear Mr. Stenroos: [178 words]
Erich
Paul Ilechko
> New York Drops Off the List Of Big Five' Orchestras
> IN: THE PITTSBURGH SYMPHONY
>
> OUT: THE PHILADELPHIA ORCHESTRA
>
> IN: THE CINCINNATI SYMPHONY
>
> OUT: THE CLEVELAND ORCHESTRA
>
> IN: THE LOS ANGELES PHILHARMONIC
>
> OUT: THE NEW YORK PHILHARMONIC
>
> ON THE BUBBLE: THE CHICAGO SYMPHONY
>
> HANGING ON: THE BOSTON SYMPHONY
It's hard to dispute dropping the mediocrities in NY, but are Pittsburgh
and Cincinnati really better than San Francisco and Houston (for
example)? Or is this whole "Big 5" thing just pretty much meaningless?
MSWD...@gmail.com
publication and not feel you'd just dropped your pants in public. Now
I look on the entire article as merely highly creative.
Jerry
the "Big Five" as a totally arbitrary and substantially
meaningless construct.
Including Los Angeles in America's top ranking
is long overdue, not withstanding Woody
Allen's trite comment about California (or
was it specifically Los Angeles?) culture or
perceived lack thereof. San Francisco deserves
inclusion as well.
For starters, which American ensembles hold the
top five spots in terms of annual operating budget?
Don't know the answer; just asking.
Performance standards will always remain a
subjective measure that, unfortunately, is further
clouded by PR hype.
Jerry
a reply above, claimed that 16 American orcehstras
have recording contracts. Wow, I wouldn't
have thought it was that many.... unless
those contracts are very small and limited to
a very few releases.
I believe that Philadelphia has an arrangement
with Ondine; New York and Los Angeles may have
something going on with DGG (e.g. Salonen's
Sacre and Maazel's Strauss); if Telarc's
sale hasn't upset the apple cart, they're probably
still doing stuff in Cincinnati and Atlanta;
San Francisco is mainly running its own
label (and does that count?); Naxos will
offer an occassional disc from Nashville,
Colorado, and Buffalo. That gets up to
9, but who are the others?
A. Brain
news:1167770005.1...@k21g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Although people who have heard both tell
me that our local band (Houston Symphony)
is better, it seems that the orchestra in what we call "that
town north of here" has some kind of contract
or contracts, since they have recorded a fair
amount of Mahler and high profile performances
of some concertos like Rach and Brahms.
New Jersey has an orchestra that has also recorded
quite a bit.
--
A. Brain
Remove NOSPAM for email.
Frank Berger
"A. Brain" <abr...@NOSPAMatt.net> wrote in message
news:rKzmh.318700$Fi1.2...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> "Jerry" <GPGe...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:1167770005.1...@k21g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> John L. Turner, MD, Deptford, New Jersey had, in
>> a reply above, claimed that 16 American orcehstras
>> have recording contracts. Wow, I wouldn't
>> have thought it was that many.... unless
>> those contracts are very small and limited to
>> a very few releases.
>>
>> I believe that Philadelphia has an arrangement
>> with Ondine; New York and Los Angeles may have
>> something going on with DGG (e.g. Salonen's
>> Sacre and Maazel's Strauss); if Telarc's
>> sale hasn't upset the apple cart, they're probably
>> still doing stuff in Cincinnati and Atlanta;
>> San Francisco is mainly running its own
>> label (and does that count?); Naxos will
>> offer an occassional disc from Nashville,
>> Colorado, and Buffalo. That gets up to
>> 9, but who are the others?
>
> Although people who have heard both tell
> me that our local band (Houston Symphony)
> is better, it seems that the orchestra in what we call "that
> town north of here"
Minneapolis? St. Louis?
Paul Ilechko
> Although people who have heard both tell
> me that our local band (Houston Symphony)
> is better, it seems that the orchestra in what we call "that
> town north of here" has some kind of contract
> or contracts, since they have recorded a fair
> amount of Mahler and high profile performances
> of some concertos like Rach and Brahms.
Unfortunately with Litton conducting. Worst Mahler 10 I ever heard.
> New Jersey has an orchestra that has also recorded
> quite a bit.
I don't think there is much correlation between quality and recording
contracts, at least these days.
Jerry
on the New Jersey Symphony.
There was a series done for Delos when Macal was
Music Director, but I've been told (indirectly
from knowledgeable sources within NJSO)
that there are no current plans to record under Jarvi,
not even self-produced CDs.
Paul Ilechko
Is that because Jarvi has already recorded everything ?
sechumlib
> In Cleveland, performances have been uniformly poor, unpopular with
> both patrons and critics alike.
This is not true. I have attended several Welser-Möst performances at
Severance Hall, and they were generally excellent.
jrs...@aol.com
Since we had this discussion over the same article a few weeks ago, not
much has changed. The Big 5 was a dubious concept 50 years ago and
still is. There is a grain of truth behind it, of course. Some
orchestras are more prestigious jobs than others, so if, say a
principal player finds the NY Phil a step up over the Cincinnati
Symphony (as happened recently), or Philadelphia over Minnesota, as
happened recently, who's to dispute that the former is a better job
than the latter? It is really hard to argue with money, over the long
term. Better money means better players means better orchestras,
basically. Not definitively, but basically.
In the meantime, though, check out the broadcasts if you don't have
access to the concerts. The NY Phil plays extraordinarily well--they
are not mediocre by any standard. Minnesota and Pittsburgh and Atlanta
and San Francisco and Los Angeles and....they're practically as
impressive, and maybe they do some things better than NYPO simply
because their respective conductors have various strengths. So there's
just no point in ranking them because unless you hear them week in,
week out, you'll have no firm basis for a categorical judgement.
--Jeff
jrs...@aol.com
They also broadcast a series recently. I heard about half the concerts
and I have to admit the orchestra doesn't impress me as one of the 10
best in the country, probably not one of the 20 best. But...there were
some superb concerts and consistently excellent playing. And Jarvi
turns out to be a rather exciting and versatile leader, with some
interesting programming ideas. I'm glad I tuned in.
--Jeff
jrs...@aol.com
I don't know. Nearly every broadcast included things he hadn't
recorded, music by Parry, Haydn, new pieces by American composers.
Jarvi has his hands on everything.
--Jeff
Simon Smith
I found the Mahler 7 he did at the Edinburgh Festival (with Cleveland)
utterly horrible (enough that I would have walked out, had I not been in
the middle of a row). Yet the Birtwistle concert they did a day or two
before that was excellent.
Simon
jrs...@aol.com
What was horrible about the Mahler?
-Jeff
Paul Ilechko
(It was just a joke ...)
Heck51
> Sorry if I'm repeating myself, but I've always taken
> the "Big Five" as a totally arbitrary and substantially
> meaningless construct.>>
Agreed. it is a bunch of BS.
didn't we just recently hash over this spewage of orchestral nonsense??
or was that on a different forum??
phlmae...@yahoo.com
I saw them play the Mahler 7th in Philly during their first east coast
tour with Welser-Most a few years ago and also didn't like it. It was
the kind of dry, unemotional performance I expect from Welser-Most.
Still, the Orchestra performed well and were brilliant when I saw them
last season in Bruckner (although, again, I didn't like W-M's take on
the piece). While the Cleveland may not be my cup of tea from a
style-standpoint, they play incredibly on the technical end. There is
no way they aren't one of the top five orchestras, probably in the
world, not just the U.S.
The problem, as I pointed out in the other thread on this article, is
the critic; not the orchestra. He's the most overwhelmingly negative
critic I've ever come across (I'm basing this on his concertonet
reviews, which I read regularly for a few years before he moved onto
the NY Sun). The guy sometimes went months at a time without giving a
positive review for orchestral concerts. He routinely based not just
the top American orchestras, but also the top ones from Europe when
they'd play at Carnegie.
Barry
Steve LaBonne
hurried and uninvolving in the late Romantic repertory (yet can also
occasionally produce a gem like his London Phil Bruckner 5 recording),
is generally pretty good (but again occasionally rushed) in the
Classical repertory for which the orchestra has long been known, is
very much in his element in complex contemporary pieces (his frequent
programming of which I admire though I wish he'd take more interest in
American composers), and seems to be especially inspired when he
conducts big choral works. By current standards he's a reasonably
decent conductor on the whole, and I prefer him to the boring Dohnanyi
(who is perhaps the most clueless Mahler interpreter I have ever heard-
it's like someone trying to speak a foreign language he doesn't
actually know. W-M's Mahler even when superficial at least sounds like
Mahler!) And the orchestra consistently plays superbly from a technical
point of view; any critic who claims otherwise is deaf and/or
prejudiced.
phlmae...@yahoo.com
> ... I prefer him to the boring Dohnanyi
> (who is perhaps the most clueless Mahler interpreter I have ever heard-
> it's like someone trying to speak a foreign language he doesn't
> actually know. W-M's Mahler even when superficial at least sounds like
> Mahler!) And the orchestra consistently plays superbly from a technical
> point of view; any critic who claims otherwise is deaf and/or
> prejudiced.
I also am not even remotely fond of Dohnanyi's style. He led flat out
the most boring performance of a Brahms symphony I've ever heard when
he conducted the Philadelphia Orchestra a few seasons ago. He
completely sapped the life out of the music.
What can I say? I admire the Cleveland's musicianship, but I simply
can't stand either of their last two music directors; although they fit
in better with the Cleveland style-wise than they would here with the
Philadelphia.
Barry
jrs...@aol.com
(I know, but I'm still fascinated that a guy like Jarvi who has
recorded so much still seems to plow through more and more unknowns--he
is the Energizer Bunny of repertoire mining.)
--Jeff
jrs...@aol.com
It is clear the critic is incompetent or pursuing a delusional agenda.
What isn't clear to me is how dry and unemotional FWM can be. I haven't
caught him in that mood yet on the air...the Mahler 3 they broadcast
was very expressive. I wish I'd caught they're 9th as well. I didn't
take as well to the Bruckner (though I like FWM's recording of the
5th). Even Dohnanyi could allow very expressive playing--I heard him
conduct some wonderful stuff with them--not at all repressed or
dry--although, sadly, the Mahler 9 was not my cuppa tea when I heard
it. I'm still not sure if it was me or them that night.
--Jeff
Paul Ilechko
And I certainly appreciate some of it, like his actually recording Tubin.
sechumlib
> What can I say? I admire the Cleveland's musicianship, but I simply
> can't stand either of their last two music directors; although they fit
> in better with the Cleveland style-wise than they would here with the
> Philadelphia.
You obviously never heard them being bent into pretzels by Maazel. I did.
John_H...@msn.com
Paul Ilechko wrote:
> jrs...@aol.com wrote:
> > Paul Ilechko wrote:
> >> jrs...@aol.com wrote:
> >>> Paul Ilechko wrote:
> >>>> Jerry wrote:
> >>>>> I can provide some first-hand information
> >>>>> on the New Jersey Symphony.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> There was a series done for Delos when Macal was
> >>>>> Music Director, but I've been told (indirectly
> >>>>> from knowledgeable sources within NJSO)
> >>>>> that there are no current plans to record under Jarvi,
> >>>>> not even self-produced CDs.
> >>>>>
> >>>> Is that because Jarvi has already recorded everything ?
> >>> I don't know. Nearly every broadcast included things he hadn't
> >>> recorded, music by Parry, Haydn, new pieces by American composers.
> >>> Jarvi has his hands on everything.
> >> (It was just a joke ...)
> >
> > (I know, but I'm still fascinated that a guy like Jarvi who has
conductors out there - his recordings of the Dvorak tone poems are
among the worst imaginable (and he's just as bad live - fortunately he
does not appear with the NY Phil anymore. Even his early traversal of
the Gade symphonies are dreadful (but when they came out they were the
only ones available - you have to imagine the performances with more
ooomph!). Hauser
jrs...@aol.com
The fact that he even does Gade means he's not dull and uninspired in
his choice of repertoire.
--Jeff
John_H...@msn.com
but......Hauser