More Hatto identifications (Debussy Etudes)
MrT
Henk van Tuijl and myself as the work of French specialist Thiollier
on Naxos. However, Chris Howell's careful analysis of several of the
etudes cast serious doubt on that attribution.
I am happy to report that Henk and Steve Emerson have identified the
source of the Etudes as the recording by Margit Rahkonen (Finlandia
4509-9558-1-2). After two side by side listenings, following the
detailed indications of peculiarities by Henk and Steve, I add my own
opinion that this is undoubtedly the very elusive Hatto. All the hard
detective work (and it was very hard indeed) was done by Henk and
Steve.
Best regards,
MrT
Matthew B. Tepper
be typed in news:1180889169.1...@q66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:
Very interesting. What sort of distribution agreements does the Finlandia
label have in the UK? Here in the US it is (or was, anyway) Warner Classics.
I'm interested to see whether this means that WB-C might have yet another
deep-pocketed multinational have a reason to pursue the matter in court.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Harrington/Coy is a gay wrestler who won't come out of the closet
MrT
>
> Very interesting. What sort of distribution agreements does the Finlandia
> label have in the UK? Here in the US it is (or was, anyway) Warner Classics.
> I'm interested to see whether this means that WB-C might have yet another
> deep-pocketed multinational have a reason to pursue the matter in court.
I think that such an action is very unlikely. Nothing to gain for a
multinational... and Rahkonen will get some modest publicity, probably
some invitations to play in new places, all to the good.
Best,
MrT
ckho...@ckhowell.com
> > label have in the UK?
It's Warner in the UK too, though this particular disc is deleted
Christopher Howell
Thomas Wood
<ckho...@ckhowell.com> wrote in message
news:1180899449....@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
I want to hear a "'Hatto's' Greatest Hits" CD -- consisting of the best
recordings that were released under her name, but in their original
unaltered forms and attributed to the real artists. Those fine pianists
deserve recognition and some of the accolades that were unjustly heaped by
duped critics upon the Poor Dead English Lady.
Tom Wood
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:%1G8i.10539$4Y....@newssvr19.news.prodigy.net:
We'd need a producer for that CD. Any suggestions? ;--)
But I wonder ... do you think it would do as well as "Switched-Off Bach"?
Keith Baird
> I'm interested to see whether this means that WB-C might have yet another
> deep-pocketed multinational have a reason to pursue the matter in court.
You should read Robert von Bahr's long letter in the current (June 2007)
Gramophone, concerning why there is little civil relief to be expected
in British courts. Short version: damage can't be demonstrated under
current standards because post-Hattogate sales of the pirated recordings
(BIS's, at least) not only exceed Concert Artist's (putative) sales but
all prior sales on BIS.
--/<eith
MrT
> <ckhow...@ckhowell.com> wrote in message
What some enterprising spirit should organize is a Hattothon à la
Woodstock, with as many of the Hattoized pianists as possible. Come on
guys, something should happen in the aught's!! Something to revive
things. It would be nice to do it this summer somewhere in Europe. I
mean, Hatto is as legitimate a theme as any other --and I've seen some
silly ones over the years, such as the 25th anniversary of the return
of Picasso's Gernika to Spain... I suppose they can then celebrate the
30th, the 35th, and so on.
I give away the idea for free, though I may be available to
collaborate in some capacity. Some nice town or city should be in need
of ideas...
Best,
MrT
John Briggs
Two points:
1. He's completely wrong - as I told him here.
2. It isn't the current edition. The current edition is the July issue -
where there is an excellent letter answering him point-by-point from the
"Copyright & Licensing Manager, Hyperion Records Ltd".
--
John Briggs
td
> Two points:
>
> 1. He's completely wrong - as I told him here.
It must be so enormously satisfying for you to be "right".
Should we pin a medal on you? Or throw a party, perhaps? Or is it
simply a normal occurrence for you?
> 2. It isn't the current edition. The current edition is the July issue -
> where there is an excellent letter answering him point-by-point from the "Copyright & Licensing Manager, Hyperion Records Ltd".
Time to stop being anal.
OF COURSE it's the current edition.
Most of the world doesn't SEE the Gramophone until it is long out of
date.
TD
bisr...@compuserve.com
Dear John,
right or wrong really depends upon what your end goal would be,
doesn't it? "Operation successful, patient died" comes to mind...
Could you please email me (if you have a scanner) or post here that
Hyperion answer? I don't get Gramophone for almost a month and the
question interests me. The more I read and hear about this, the more
I have come to realize that I have been far too gullible (WBC seems to
have started this over a decade go) but, having said that, I still am
convinced (and at least one UK lawyer has confirmed that I wouldn't
stand a chance in an English Court) that the decision I have taken is
the pragmatically, even if perhaps not the principally, correct one.
If Hyperion seemingly has a different opinion about this, based on
what you write above, are we going to see them, lips smacking with
anticipation, rushing into the British legal maelstroem again, after
what happened last time? If so, I'll be cheering them on, but on the
sidelines.
rob...@bis.se would do well.
Best - Robert
John Briggs
> On 4 Juni, 20:05, "John Briggs" <john.brig...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> Keith Baird wrote:
I'll see what I can do!
--
John Briggs
Matthew B. Tepper
John Briggs
> On Jun 4, 2:05 pm, "John Briggs" <john.brig...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>> Two points:
>>
>> 1. He's completely wrong - as I told him here.
>
> It must be so enormously satisfying for you to be "right".
>
> Should we pin a medal on you? Or throw a party, perhaps? Or is it
> simply a normal occurrence for you?
Take a wild guess :-)
(In point of fact, I cheat: I only post on subjects which I know something
about - a strategy which I would commend to you. Even worse, I have a habit
of doing some elementary fact-checking before posting...)
I am reminded of Jacob Bronowski's story about his friend Johnny von
Neumann. They were working on a problem during the war and von Neumann
said, "No, you are not seeing it. What is happening on this photograph of an
explosion is that the first differential coefficient vanishes identically,
and that is why what becomes visible is the trace of the second differential
coefficient."
Bronowski let him go, and worked on the problem deep into the night. The
next morning, he phoned von Neumann at his hotel room, waiting until after
ten, because von Neumann wasn't an early riser. "Johnny, you're quite
right." "You wake me up early in the morning to tell me that I'm right?
Please wait until I'm wrong!"
--
John Briggs
Paul Ilechko
> (In point of fact, I cheat: I only post on subjects which I know something
> about - a strategy which I would commend to you.
Then Tommy D. would *never* post. Oh, wait, that would be a good thing ...
td
> td wrote:
> > On Jun 4, 2:05 pm, "John Briggs" <john.brig...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> >> Two points:
>
> >> 1. He's completely wrong - as I told him here.
>
> > It must be so enormously satisfying for you to be "right".
>
> > Should we pin a medal on you? Or throw a party, perhaps? Or is it
> > simply a normal occurrence for you?
>
> Take a wild guess :-)
>
> (In point of fact, I cheat: I only post on subjects which I know something
> about - a strategy which I would commend to you. Even worse, I have a habit
> of doing some elementary fact-checking before posting...)
AMAZING!!!
And he still thinks he is "right".
They simply never give up, do they.
TD
td
Dear Pauly!
The point is never to be "right" or "wrong", which is often
subjectively decided, but to have an opinion worth discussing.
Now, on that score, you really should follow your own advice.
Cease and desist forthwith.
TD
ckho...@ckhowell.com
> source of the Etudes as the recording by Margit Rahkonen (Finlandia
> 4509-9558-1-2). After two side by side listenings, following the
> detailed indications of peculiarities by Henk and Steve, I add my own
> detective work (and it was very hard indeed) was done by Henk and
> Steve.
>
> Best regards,
>
> MrT
Since I started this off by questioning Thiollier, I should like to
put on record:
Some time ago I received a private message from Henk von Tuijl in
which he agreed that Thiollier was not the source and thought it might
be Rahkonen.
I immediately started trying to get this out-of-print CD but it was a
slow business. In the meantime a further message arrived from Henk in
which he appended some notes by Steve Emerson listing detailed points
of correspondence between "Hatto" and Rahkonen in each Etude. Mario's
posting appeared shortly after.
I have now heard the Rahkonen and have no hesitation about agreeing
with the identification, so thanks to all concerned, not least the
person who enabled me to listen to Rahkonen.
More detailed listening has revealed time manipulation in most pieces,
pretty severe in two cases. My re-review of the disc for MusicWeb has
now been written, including a table of these alterations, and will
presumably be posted in the next week or so.
Christopher Howell
MrT
> > I am happy to report that Henk and Steve Emerson have identified the
> > source of the Etudes as the recording by Margit Rahkonen (Finlandia
> > 4509-9558-1-2). After two side by side listenings, following the
> > detailed indications of peculiarities by Henk and Steve, I add my own
> > opinion that this is undoubtedly the very elusiveHatto. All the hard
> > detective work (and it was very hard indeed) was done by Henk and
> > Steve.
>
> > Best regards,
>
> > MrT
>
> Since I started this off by questioning Thiollier, I should like to
> put on record:
>
> Some time ago I received a private message from Henk von Tuijl in
> which he agreed that Thiollier was not the source and thought it might
> be Rahkonen.
>
> I immediately started trying to get this out-of-print CD but it was a
> slow business. In the meantime a further message arrived from Henk in
> which he appended some notes by Steve Emerson listing detailed points
> of correspondence between "Hatto" and Rahkonen in each Etude. Mario's
> posting appeared shortly after.
>
> I have now heard the Rahkonen and have no hesitation about agreeing
> with the identification, so thanks to all concerned, not least the
> person who enabled me to listen to Rahkonen.
Very good performances, by the way. Hatto rocks!
Best,
MrT