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A Different Blu-Ray Question

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Jerry

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Sep 15, 2012, 1:38:21 PM9/15/12
to
Will all Blu-Ray players play BD-Audio discs?

The reason that I seek clarification is that
I recall that DVD-Audio had been touted as
the successor to CD because there was already an
extensive base of DVD players in use that could
play DVD-Audio.
But that wasn't really true.
None of my U.S.-purchasaed DVD players
supported DVD-Audio. I subsequently
obtained Oppo and Denon units that
had both DVD-A and SACD functionality.

Jerry

P.S. Region-free BD players are available (at a premium)
from some internet sites. My region-free DVD player
was obtained years ago from International Video and
Electronics in Elk Grove, IL and continues to serve
me well.

M forever

unread,
Sep 15, 2012, 1:52:09 PM9/15/12
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You can also get a region-free mod for your Oppo which is easy to
install.

Kirk McElhearn at dot

unread,
Sep 15, 2012, 6:52:03 PM9/15/12
to
On 2012-09-15 17:38:21 +0000, Jerry <gpge...@aol.com> said:

> Will all Blu-Ray players play BD-Audio discs?
>
> The reason that I seek clarification is that
> I recall that DVD-Audio had been touted as
> the successor to CD because there was already an
> extensive base of DVD players in use that could
> play DVD-Audio.
> But that wasn't really true.
> None of my U.S.-purchasaed DVD players
> supported DVD-Audio. I subsequently
> obtained Oppo and Denon units that
> had both DVD-A and SACD functionality.

I thought they all supported BD-audio. Those are just discs with fixed
images and audio. I've got a couple, and they work on a cheap Sony BD
player, as well as a much more expensive Cambridge Audio device.

Kirk
--

Kirkville -- http://www.mcelhearn.com
Writings about more than just Macs
Take Control of iTunes 10: The FAQ: http://www.mcelhearn.com/itunes

operafan

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Sep 16, 2012, 9:06:15 AM9/16/12
to
On Sep 15, 1:38 pm, Jerry <gpgenn...@aol.com> wrote:

> None of my U.S.-purchasaed DVD players
> supported DVD-Audio. I subsequently
> obtained Oppo and Denon units that
> had both DVD-A and SACD functionality.

I have a Denon 3109 universal player that handled the only DVD-A disc
I ever bought. When I bought a Samsung BluRay player some time later,
I tried the DVD-A disc in it, and it worked fine, to my surprise, even
though there was no indication in the Samsung documentation that it
plays DVD-A discs.

Alan Dawes

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Sep 21, 2012, 9:54:48 AM9/21/12
to
In article
<ffc42f45-b37a-419b...@h4g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>,
Are you sure it is reading the DVD-A layer? Many DVD-Audio discs also have
a standard DVD layer containing compressed DTS and/or Dolby surround sound
which can be read by any DVD or blu-ray player. As far as I can ascertain
the NAXOS DVD Audio discs contain no DVD-A layer just a standard DVD with
DTS and Dolby audio. eg NAXOS 5.110020

Alan

--
alan....@argonet.co.uk
alan....@riscos.org
Using an Acorn RiscPC

operafan

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Sep 21, 2012, 10:33:43 AM9/21/12
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On Sep 21, 9:54 am, Alan Dawes <alan.da...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:

> Are you sure it is reading the DVD-A layer? Many DVD-Audio discs also have
> a standard DVD layer containing compressed DTS and/or Dolby surround sound
> which can be read by any DVD or blu-ray player. As far as I can ascertain
> the NAXOS DVD Audio discs contain no DVD-A layer just a standard DVD with
> DTS and Dolby audio. eg NAXOS 5.110020

Yes, the Samsung Bluray player is reading the DVD-A layer--the disc I
have is the Beatles "Love."

Edward Cowan

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Oct 3, 2012, 11:11:05 AM10/3/12
to
I have a BD player (Pioneer Elite BDP-09FD), and I am able to play
ordinary CDs with it, as well as ordinary DVDs. Whenever I play CDs, I
seem to get a richer-sounding audio experience. (Perhaps this is just my
imagination!) Still, some CDs will not play correctly on my McIntosh MCD
205, and I must play them on the BDP-09FD. I'm going to play one of the
old transferred 78rpm Stokowski recordings on my BDP real soon now
(RSN), and I'm wondering whether there will be any "extra" data that the
BDP can read and which my Mac CDP does not read. All this is speculative
just now, and I don't know what to expect, but there's always a good
chance that something will "turn up" (with apologies to Dickens' Mr.
Micawber...). --E.A.C.
--
hrabanus

Edward Cowan

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Oct 8, 2012, 7:31:45 AM10/8/12
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Yesterday I listened to a Bach cantata (BWV 96, "Herr Christ, du einge
Gottessohn") with Karl Richter and the Munich Bach Choir and Orchestra
(in DG Archiv 439 394-2, "Bach: Kantaten Vol. 5, Sonntage nach
Trinitatis II," five CDs. Hitherto, whenever I have listened to
recordings in this series, the sound of the choir has been diffuse and
hard-to-hear. When I played this cantata via my BDP-09FD, the sound was
very well balanced, the choir was distinctly heard, and much musical
pleasure was encountered. I am beginning to take seriously to hearing
regular CDs played via this unit. --E.A.C.

Edward Cowan <oldger...@nospam.com> wrote:

> I have a BD player (Pioneer Elite BDP-09FD), and I am able to play
> ordinary CDs with it, as well as ordinary DVDs. Whenever I play CDs, I
> seem to get a richer-sounding audio experience. (Perhaps this is just my
> imagination!) Still, some CDs will not play correctly on my McIntosh MCD
> 205, and I must play them on the BDP-09FD. I'm going to play one of the
> old transferred 78rpm Stokowski recordings on my BDP real soon now
> (RSN), and I'm wondering whether there will be any "extra" data that the
> BDP can read and which my Mac CDP does not read. All this is speculative
> just now, and I don't know what to expect, but there's always a good
> chance that something will "turn up" (with apologies to Dickens' Mr.
> Micawber...). --E.A.C.
>

--
hrabanus

William Sommerwerck

unread,
Oct 8, 2012, 8:18:04 AM10/8/12
to
"Edward Cowan" <oldger...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:1krmuxy.depe1y7so60wN%oldger...@nospam.com...

> Yesterday I listened to a Bach cantata (BWV 96, "Herr Christ, du einge
> Gottessohn") with Karl Richter and the Munich Bach Choir and Orchestra
> (in DG Archiv 439 394-2, "Bach: Kantaten Vol. 5, Sonntage nach
> Trinitatis II," five CDs. Hitherto, whenever I have listened to
> recordings in this series, the sound of the choir has been diffuse and
> hard-to-hear. When I played this cantata via my BDP-09FD, the sound was
> very well balanced, the choir was distinctly heard, and much musical
> pleasure was encountered. I am beginning to take seriously to hearing
> regular CDs played via this unit. --E.A.C.

As a former subjective reviewer, I can tell you that your mood has a strong
effect on how recordings sound.

I've been feeling better lately, and both recordings and my systems sound
significantly better than they have in a long time.

You should listen to a variety of recordings on this player, to get a
broader perspective.


Edward Cowan

unread,
Oct 10, 2012, 8:56:37 AM10/10/12
to
William Sommerwerck <grizzle...@comcast.net> wrote:

> You should listen to a variety of recordings on this [BD --E.A.C.] player,
> to get a broader perspective.

I intend to do just that RSN... --E.A.C.

A follow-up:

Yesterday, I listened to another miscellaney of music playing ordinary
CDs with my BD player. These included:

Haydn: The Creation, Pt. 1 (Berlin PO, cond. Markevitch; DG Double DG
437 380-2, two CDs.

Bellini: Norma, "Casta Diva" with Maria Callas, from her early 1950s
complete recording (EMI CDS 7 47304 8).

The Haydn, in stereo, is my favorite recording of that oratorio, mainly
because of Markevitch's conducting and the singing of the St. Hedwig's
Cathedral Choir. This is early stereo (P) 1958, and the sound is
undistinguished, with little definition or "space" to the recording. I
wanted to check out the BD player's handling of the sudden fortissimo at
"Und es ward LICHT!". The fortissimo came through without any distortion
or other problem, and my Paradigm speakers managed this passage
superbly. The aria from Norma, a mono recording of the opera, still
shows some shrillness in the soprano's singing. (And Rossi-Lemeni's
toneless bellowing wins no prizes from me...) This is still my favorite
recording of the opera, this despite the less-than-stellar singing of
Rossi-Lemeni and tenor Filippeschi. And so it goes... I shall likely
hear more music from my BD player today. --E.A.C.

-- hrabanus

Steve de Mena

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Oct 10, 2012, 1:14:21 PM10/10/12
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Wow, a review of a few ancient CDs from an un-named Blu-Ray player.
How exciting.

"The fortissimo came through without any distortion or other problem".
Is there any CD player out there that should introduce distortion on a
fortissimo passage?

Steve

Edward Cowan

unread,
Oct 11, 2012, 3:10:03 PM10/11/12
to
I doubt that any CD player *should* introduce distortion on a fortissimo
passage. I was, however, remarking upon the quality of the reproduction
of that recording of Haydn's oratorio, The Creation.

I did mention the make of my BD player in an earlier mesage. It's a
Pioneeer "Elite" BDP-09FD. I did some more listening last evening.
Having been listening via Sirius XM to a Met performance of Don Giovanni
from Feb. 13, 2003, cond. Sylvain Cambreling, and having been irritated
by that conductor's headlong tempi, I put on the EMI CD edition of the
old Glyndebourne recording cond. Fritz Busch, whose tempi turn out not
to be any less "headlong" than Cambreling's. But, playing this recording
via the (named) BD player, I was surprised to hear what seemed to me to
be the "real" Glyndebourne sound, including the fondly-remembered rich
sound of the original 78s. (EMI CHS 7 61030 2, three CDs) My point here
being that the BD player tends to "catch" more data on regular CDs than
does my CD player (McIntosh MCD 205). The Busch recording of Don
Giovanni sounds a bit harsh when played on my CD player, but the BD
player seems to improve the sound, restoring the original sound of the
78s that I used to hear so long ago. The Glyndebourne Orchestra sounds
more "natural" here than it does when played through my CD player, and
the sound is less harsh. (A subjective reaction, to be sure, but there
it is...) --E.A.C.

Steve de Mena <st...@demena.com> wrote:

> "The fortissimo came through without any distortion or other problem".
> Is there any CD player out there that should introduce distortion on a
> fortissimo passage?


--
hrabanus

David Fox

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Oct 12, 2012, 12:41:38 PM10/12/12
to
D/A conversion has come a huge way in the past 20 years. It has
significantly improved in the last ten. Chipsets/-algorithms that were the
exclusive domain of high-end expensive equipment only a few years ago are
now mass-produced and available for pennies. Your BD player most likely
has a far superior D/A converter than do your older dedicated CD players.
The same goes for relatively recent A/V receivers. They have the same
modern D/A chips. Only a few years ago, it took research to find decent
D/A conversion with inexpensive audio components. Now it's hard to find bad
performance.

DF

David Fox

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Oct 12, 2012, 1:50:28 PM10/12/12
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The short answer is yes. I've heard some CD players mangle loud,
complex passages. At worst it can sound like old-school tinfoil
thunder. Entire instruments/sections can disappear. I used to bring
along a CD-R including such samples to test out CD players and D/A
converters when auditioning equipment.

DF

Norman Schwartz

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Oct 12, 2012, 6:47:15 PM10/12/12
to

"David Fox" <davidf...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ueqdnZPotb7_xeXN...@giganews.com...
Whenever I hear anything that sounds mangled, I blame my hearing. :-(

Art

unread,
Oct 13, 2012, 11:28:26 AM10/13/12
to
On Fri, 12 Oct 2012 11:41:38 -0500, David Fox
<davidf...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> The same goes for relatively recent A/V receivers. They have the
same
> modern D/A chips. Only a few years ago, it took research to find
decent
> D/A conversion with inexpensive audio components. Now it's hard to
find bad
> performance.

I agree. I recently purchased a Sony AV receiver that was made in
2006. I still can't believe how good the DA converter in this unit
sounds.

Edward Cowan

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Oct 13, 2012, 4:07:31 PM10/13/12
to
I'm pretty certain that you are right about improvements in D/A
conversion. My BD player seems to be one of the "improved" devices. (For
which I am very happy.)

This unit is a single-drawer machine, meaning that I must manually
change discs for playing. This brings about complications that sometimes
arise when something "special" is desired. For example:

The Beecham recording of Mozart's Entführung aus dem Serail (EMI
Références CHS 7 63715 2, two CDs -- a reissue of this exists with the
same layout, inluding the supplement of Mozart arias). Beecham moved
certain numbers around from their places in Mozart's score. (I have a
Dover score of this opera.) For instance, what to do about "Wenn der
Freude Tränen fliessen," an aria for Belmonte near the end of Act 1 ?
This item is usually moved to the start of Act 2 whenever it has been
decided to omit Belmonte's "Ich baue ganz auf deine Stärke," an
exceptionally difficult but lovely number. "Wenn der Freude Tränen
fliessen" is in its place in WAM's score in the Beecham recording, near
the end of Act 1. "Ich baue ganz" is omitted from Beecham's performance,
but there is a recording of it by Leopold Simoneau, the Belmonte of
Beecham's recording, in an appendix to CD2, found in tracks [10] to [14]
of CD2. One need only insert CD 2 and select track [12] to hear this
aria in its prescribed place in Mozart's score. Simoneau is heard
singing, but the accompaniment is provided by Orchestre du Théâtre des
Champs Elysées cond. by André Jouve. (I have no idea about the
provenance of this recording, nor of the remaining five CD tracks that
make up the supplement of Mozart arias on CD 2.) After this, one selects
track [2] to hear the remainder of the act (tracks [2]-[9]. If, however,
one wishes to hear "Wenn der Freude Tränen fliessen" near the end of Act
1, before the quartet, then, upon having heard track [22] you have to
insert CD 2 and select track [1] to hear this number, then extract CD 2
from the drawer and replace it with CD 1 and select track [23] to hear
the quartet that ends Act 1. With a CD changer, such as my McIntosh CD
changer, all this can be easily accomplished by using the player's
remote control. But "individual initiative" is required of the user if
one is hearing this recording on a single-tray BD player such as mine.
(Ah, if only Beecham had simply left well-enough alone... <g>)

BEecham also moves Konstanze's "Martern aller Arten" from Act 1, puting
it into an odd place in Act 2 (CD2, track [5]). To hear this one in its
correct place in Act 1, after hearing CD1, track [16], Konstanze's
"Traurigkeit," one takes CD1 out of the tray and places CD2 into it,
whereupon one selects CD2, track [5] to hear this great bravura aria.

Projects such as the one described above do tend to make life more
"interesting", but there is also the option of just playing the CDs as
they exist and enjoying them. --E.A.C.


David Fox <davidf...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> D/A conversion has come a huge way in the past 20 years. It has
> significantly improved in the last ten. Chipsets/-algorithms that were the
> exclusive domain of high-end expensive equipment only a few years ago are
> now mass-produced and available for pennies. Your BD player most likely
> has a far superior D/A converter than do your older dedicated CD players.
> The same goes for relatively recent A/V receivers. They have the same
> modern D/A chips. Only a few years ago, it took research to find decent
> D/A conversion with inexpensive audio components. Now it's hard to find bad
> performance.


--
hrabanus

David Fox

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Oct 13, 2012, 4:12:59 PM10/13/12
to
If you rip the recording to a server you can order it however you want. You
can even create playlists to save your desired ordering.

DF

Norman Schwartz

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Oct 13, 2012, 7:38:19 PM10/13/12
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"David Fox" <davidf...@yahoo.com> wrote
>>
>
> If you rip the recording to a server you can order it however you want.
> You
> can even create playlists to save your desired ordering.
>

Or couldn't you burn a CD-R with the ripped tracks in any chosen order?


> DF


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