More on Hattogate - a MusicWeb critic replies (at length and with some interesting revelations...)
Kirk McElhearn
--
Read my blog, Kirkville
http://www.mcelhearn.com
MrT
Ah, the stuff is beginning to come out, slowly.
Best,
MrT
Thornhill
Do the people at Music Web realize that they crossed a line of
journalistic integrity by becoming friends with Barrington-Coupe? They
essentially became his shill.
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:45dc53b2$0$27412$ba4a...@news.orange.fr:
> http://www.musicweb.uk.net/classrev/2007/Feb07/Hatto_Howell.htm
Très intéressant!
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Harrington/Coy is a gay wrestler who won't come out of the closet
Matthew B. Tepper
be typed in news:1172068869.3...@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com:
> On Feb 21, 3:36 pm, Rich Litel <rich...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Kirk McElhearn <kir...@gmail.com> wrote in news:45dc53b2$0$27412$ba4acef3
>> Does the movie "Sunset Boulevard" come to mind anyone?
>
> Yes, it was put forth at the beginning of the discussion, I think. The
> current favorites are "The Sunset Boulevard Theory" and the "The Norman
> Bates Theory". Others that have been mentioned are "The Lavender Hill Mob
> Theory" and, old-fashionedly, "The Ukridge Theory", both suggesting
> enthusiasm coupled with comic incompetence. Myself, I think it was Bates
> but that Sunset Boulevard will be used as a defense.
Couldn't be "Lavender Hill Mob"; WB-C does not appear to be as forthcoming as
dear Mr. Holland was in Brazil.
Paul Ilechko
They have answered that question at length on this newsgroup... whether
you buy the response or not is up to you.
benjo maso
"Kirk McElhearn" <kir...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:45dc53b2$0$27412$ba4a...@news.orange.fr...
Hatto's recording of Mussorgsky's Pictures might be Lilya Zilberstein's, who
also played a sudden piano where the melody suddenly goes up high in Bydlo
Benjo Maso
Len of MusicWeb
"MrT" <symbi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1172067882.0...@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...
Best,
MrT
I would just like to remind you that these letters were detailed in the
Mozart review
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2007/Jan07/Mozart_sonatas_Hatto_IP001052.htm
published in January before the scandal broke.
The key three reviewers of Hatto recordings for MusicWeb have been
Christopher Howell, Jonathan Woolf and Colin Clark. None of these have met
him personally.
I do not think we have crossed any boundaries as mentioned in another reply.
Chris was doing his usual thorough background research that any competent
reviewer might do and my contacts with Concert Artists were because we were
offering his discs for sale. He was invited to meet us because of our
interest in Joyce Hatto. None of the above three reviewers attended that
lunch. Finally to answer another query I am not going to name the reviewer
shown in the photograph but will say that he has not reviewed any Hatto
discs.
So as far as MusicWeb is concerned nothing is "coming out" and hardly slowly
either. Chris's document is massive so must actually have been written at
breakneck speed. I processed it at 4am his morning and posted it to the
web-site at just after 5am so there would be no delay.
Yours, tired of all this
Len
kerrison1...@yahoo.co.uk
> "Kirk McElhearn" <kir...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:45dc53b2$0$27412$ba4a...@news.orange.fr...
>
> >http://www.musicweb.uk.net/classrev/2007/Feb07/Hatto_Howell.htm
>
Christopher Howell at one point writes "The fact that Hatto lived
until 2006 - if she did ... etc." ... He should know as well as anyone
that all UK Birth, Marriage and Death Certificates are readily
available to any citizen, for a small fee, from what was once called
the General Register Office but is now entitled The Family Records
Centre, London ... Check out their website at http://www.familyrecords.gov.uk/
... Wade through the various sections and you'll see that a copy of
the Hatto Death Certificate can even be ordered on-line as well as by
post or phone or in person ... I wonder how many copies they'll be
running off now that this information is readily available? ...
assuming of course that it isn't a fake ...
O
Thornhill <seth...@gmail.com> wrote:
I think the people at Music Web are friends with a lot of record
promoters, and I don't see anything wrong with that, nor do I think
it's something that could be stopped. Allowing friendship to get in
the way of doing your job is wrong, but no one has alleged that, and
it's a completely different matter than the JH hoax.
-Owen
Thornhill
> "MrT" <symbiotr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1172067882.0...@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 21, 3:14 pm, Kirk McElhearn <kir...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >http://www.musicweb.uk.net/classrev/2007/Feb07/Hatto_Howell.htm
> > --
> > Read my blog, Kirkvillehttp://www.mcelhearn.com
>
> Ah, the stuff is beginning to come out, slowly.
>
> Best,
>
> MrT
>
> I would just like to remind you that these letters were detailed in the
> published in January before the scandal broke.
>
> The key three reviewers of Hatto recordings for MusicWeb have been
> Christopher Howell, Jonathan Woolf and Colin Clark. None of these have met
> him personally.
>
> I do not think we have crossed any boundaries as mentioned in another reply.
> Chris was doing his usual thorough background research that any competent
> reviewer might do and my contacts with Concert Artists were because we were
> offering his discs for sale. He was invited to meet us because of our
> interest in Joyce Hatto. None of the above three reviewers attended that
> lunch. Finally to answer another query I am not going to name the reviewer
> shown in the photograph but will say that he has not reviewed any Hatto
> discs.
The more you talk to someone, the more friendly you become with them,
and the less willing (subconsciously) you are to be critical of them.
It's one thing to ask a few questions for research purposes, but you
clearly had a relatively steady correspondence.
Len of MusicWeb
"Thornhill" <seth...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1172078216....@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
Yes which consisted of
Here is another order for you
or
This customer complains he has not had his discs, have you posted them etc.
Len
her...@yahoo.com
>
> Yes which consisted of
>
> Here is another order for you
>
> or
> This customer complains he has not had his discs, have you posted them etc.
>
> Len
It also consisted of: "I'd like to invite you for our lunch. A couple
of our reviewers will be there, too."
As long as you don't realize you have made big, critical mistakes, you
are liable to repeat them - though ot in such monumental fashion.
Herman
JohnGavin
>
> - Show quoted text -
I suspect that is absolutely true in many cases - also typical human
nature - the ego is flattered by the contact or association.
The next step seems to be a presumed entitlement to refer to them on a
first name basis.......and then they can do no wrong.
Kirk McElhearn
>
> Yes, it was put forth at the beginning of the discussion, I think. The
> current favorites are "The Sunset Boulevard Theory" and the "The
> Norman Bates Theory". Others that have been mentioned are "The
> Lavender Hill Mob Theory" and, old-fashionedly, "The Ukridge Theory",
> both suggesting enthusiasm coupled with comic incompetence. Myself, I
> think it was Bates but that Sunset Boulevard will be used as a
> defense.
What about the "Gang That Couldn't Shoot Straight" theory? :-)
Kirk
johnlew...@sympatico.ca
It comes across very clear that both husband and wife were sick
puppies. The diagnosis, it seems to me, is going to make the
forthcoming documentary, which must be inevitable, very interesting.
I'm surprised that no recent pictures of the lady can;t be found.
That would make it easier to guess at her physical (and mental?) state
of mind, and to guess at the extent to which she may have been
involved in this quite massive hoax. The correspondence is beyond
belief.
JG
Thornhill
> "Thornhill" <seth.l...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Is it really that hard to just admit that you got caught up in the
Hatto mystique and that as a journalist you made some mistakes?
Bob Lombard
Journalist?
bl
Thornhill
wrote:
> "Thornhill" <seth.l...@gmail.com> wrote in message
A critic is a type of journalist.
Nick Sun
her...@yahoo.com
dig themselves deeper holes. The same would go for Deacon and Watkins,
but they're only irrelevant accessories.
I do however applaud Howell coming clean. He made some big mistakes
- "I am not a reviewer; I am a pianist" is the source of all his
mistakes - but at least he is open about it. I admire him for it.
Mullenger however is perpetuating his mistakes, saying others are to
blame, and it makes him (and MusicWeb) look very bad.
Herman
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:45dc87a0$0$27402$ba4a...@news.orange.fr:
Or the "Ladykillers" or "Man in the White Suit" theories?
Andrew Rose
pompous, self-righteous crap...
--
Andrew Rose - Pristine Classical
The online home of Classical Music: www.pristineclassical.com
Matthew B. Tepper
to be typed in news:1172092337....@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
> On Feb 21, 10:08 pm, "Matthew B. Tepper" <oyž@earthlink.net> wrote:
> aight" theory? :-)
>>
>> Or the "Ladykillers" or "Man in the White Suit" theories?
>>
> Hey, Guiness lives! We can recycle him in this new movie. Or, more
> precisely, we can patch him in, which is in the spirit of the thing.
Or get Ewan McGregor to play his roles.
Josep Vilanova
> On Feb 21, 3:36 pm, Rich Litel <rich...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Kirk McElhearn <kir...@gmail.com> wrote in news:45dc53b2$0$27412$ba4acef3
> > Does the movie "Sunset Boulevard" come to mind anyone?
>
> current favorites are "The Sunset Boulevard Theory" and the "The
> Norman Bates Theory". Others that have been mentioned are "The
> Lavender Hill Mob Theory" and, old-fashionedly, "The Ukridge Theory",
> both suggesting enthusiasm coupled with comic incompetence. Myself, I
> think it was Bates but that Sunset Boulevard will be used as a
> defense.
>
>
> MrT
Remember that I also put forward another theory -mostly for fun-, that
now I would call 'The Bad Education Theory'. In that theory Mr. B-C
may have met Joyce Hatto in the 70s. Joyce Hatto died. B-C, at some
point in his life, married a woman called Joyce, perhaps Joyce Smith,
who after the wedding became Joyce Barrington-Coupe (the name in the
death certificate). Mr B-C ran out of money and had the idea of making
his wife Joyce to pass for that mysterious Joyce Hatto, with the hope
that the idea of an old woman battling with cancer would attract some
buyers. That woman could not play the piano though, and other pianists
needed to be found, therefore the need for using other people's work.
Since B-C knew the original Joyce Hatto (perhaps an old flame?) he had
a collection of letters to him relating her encounters with different
musicians. Everything went fine and, unfortunately, Joyce Barrington-
Coupe, nee Smith, died recently... It's not that I believe that is
what has happened, but it makes for an interesting theory!
j
psmi...@yahoo.co.uk
> On Feb 21, 2:05 pm, "Bob Lombard" <thorsteinnos...@vermontel.net>
> wrote:
>
> > "Thornhill" <seth.l...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > > Is it really that hard to just admit that you got caught up in the
> > > Hatto mystique and that as a journalist you made some mistakes?
>
> >Journalist?
>
> A critic is a type ofjournalist.
The point, since no one else has (re)made it yet, is that Len
Mullenger is not a critic - his business is selling CDs.
Peter
Matthew B. Tepper
following letters to be typed in
> Remember that I also put forward another theory -mostly for fun-, that
> now I would call 'The Bad Education Theory'. In that theory Mr. B-C may
> have met Joyce Hatto in the 70s. Joyce Hatto died. B-C, at some point in
> his life, married a woman called Joyce, perhaps Joyce Smith, who after
> the wedding became Joyce Barrington-Coupe (the name in the death
> certificate). Mr B-C ran out of money and had the idea of making his wife
> Joyce to pass for that mysterious Joyce Hatto, with the hope that the
> idea of an old woman battling with cancer would attract some buyers. That
> woman could not play the piano though, and other pianists needed to be
> found, therefore the need for using other people's work. Since B-C knew
> the original Joyce Hatto (perhaps an old flame?) he had a collection of
> letters to him relating her encounters with different musicians.
> Everything went fine and, unfortunately, Joyce Barrington-Coupe, nee
> Smith, died recently... It's not that I believe that is what has
> happened, but it makes for an interesting theory!
Mmmm, sort of a "modified Vertigo" theory?
Then there would be the "modified Hound of the Baskervilles" theory, in
which WB-C had a sister named Joyce....
David Fox
> http://www.musicweb.uk.net/classrev/2007/Feb07/Hatto_Howell.htm
> --
> Read my blog, Kirkvillehttp://www.mcelhearn.com
After reading Christopher Howell's very long piece, I've come to very
different conclusions than the author has.
Howell leans towards theories that involve the actual involvement of
Joyce Hatto at some point or another based on the level of details she
provides in her correspondences about piano music, composers, and
pianists. Howell questions the ability of a non-pianist to conjur up
such detail. I do not see any detail that had to be written by an
actual pianist. As for antecdotes, has Howell ever read an historical
novel? Anybody with an adequate amount of research can artfully
combine fact and fiction. Somebody who has existed at the fringes of
the classical music world for so many decades such as Coupe de Fraud
should have an ample supply of legends, overheard stories, musical
biographies, and magazine back-issues to plunder. I do not find
anything in the "Hatto" letters that scream out to me that this could
have only been written by somebody who actually played piano.
Howell does point out a readily-identifiable (ex-post) pattern of
manipulation in the construction of Hatto's letters. CdF's letters
follow the same arc, though in a different voice.
The text of the Hatto letters strike me as willfully fake. They read
like dramatic monologues in which the author is trying a bit too hard
to paint a character. The physical evidence - the computer reproduced
signature - strongly support the theory that these letters are
fabrications. Given the circumstances, the odds that the author of
these letters is anyone other than CdF are astronomical. Con artists
are methodical. There is no evidence that this guy had anything
better to do with his time for quite a while. The selection of
recordings pirated indicates someone with deep knowledge and
experience with pianists and recorded piano music. I don't know why
Howell is so willing to dismiss the liklihood that CdF was informed,
thorough, patient, and incredibly brazen.
Incidentally - to those attuned to language and dramatic nuance, do
the "Hatto" letters remind anyone of a frequent RMCR contributor with
a seemingly endless supply of colorful musical antecdotes?
DF
MrT
> Incidentally - to those attuned to language and dramatic nuance, do
> the "Hatto" letters remind anyone of a frequent RMCR contributor with
> a seemingly endless supply of colorful musical antecdotes?
>
software that identifies patterns of writing. It is still rather
primitive, but you can get some striking results. I vaguely remember
that the Wanda Tinasky letters, a brilliant Pynchon imitation, were so
analized (perhaps after the discovery of the actual author, I can't
recall).
Just based on ear, I am having fewer and fewer doubts.
Best,
MrT
rkhalona
I can almost see it on the shelves: "The Timpanist's Soliloquies" with
a preface by D. Hurwitz.
RK
CarsonCooman
However, the "Gender Genie" website (based on an algorithm that
attempts to identify whether the writer of a passage of prose was male
or female) guesses with its algorithm that almost all (but not all) of
those e-mails to Mr. Howell supposedly from "Joyce Hatto" were
actually written by a male. (These are, of course, algorithmic
guesses and very much not 100% accurate.)
The website can be found at:
http://www.bookblog.net/gender/genie.html
CPC
Ralph
> Just an FYI.
>
> http://jessicamusic.blogspot.com/
>
And in the link above Norman Lebrecht weighs in on Hatto:
Eric Grunin
> On Feb 21, 9:14 am, Kirk McElhearn <kir...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >http://www.musicweb.uk.net/classrev/2007/Feb07/Hatto_Howell.htm
> > --
> > Read my blog, Kirkvillehttp://www.mcelhearn.com
>
> journalistic integrity by becoming friends with Barrington-Coupe? They
> essentially became his shill.
All this is way over the top, especially as the recordings praised as
'Hatto' are being found to be just as good once reattributed.
1) The critic's very salary depends on advertising revenue from those
with something to sell, yet this seldom seems to discourage bad
reviews. The best defense Fanfare can offer (recall that case of 'no
ad = no review') is that it frequently bit the hands that fed it.
2) Critics are always courted by those with something to sell,
starting with the free CD/DVD/performance itself. Your 'standards'
would prevent a theatre critic from having almost any friends in the
theatre, because there would hardly be a show from which he wouldn't
have to recuse himself. This is almost as true in the music business.
3) Virgil Thomson was good friends with many composers whose works he
reviewed. He was also one of the best critics ever. I would rather
read a perceptive critic reviewing his best friend than a tinear
reviewing a stranger.
Regards,
Eric Grunin
www.grunin.com/eroica
alanwa...@aol.com
> http://www.musicweb.uk.net/classrev/2007/Feb07/Hatto_Howell.htm
> --
> Read my blog, Kirkvillehttp://www.mcelhearn.com
I have had a very long day and I have a very long schedule tomorrow so
I will be as brief as I can to cover some points.
I have read Mr Howell's piece. I cannot know exactly what Mr Howell
means about a "scrawled" signature as it is slightly subjective.
The one and only letter I have from Joyce Hatto is hand written not
computerised. I am a long way from the letter and its contents but
the calligraphy was distinctive, particularly on capital letters. I
think the envelope was also hand written.
The only reason I noticed this is that I have a deep interest in
calligraphy and typefaces (posted about before).
The letter was utterly legible although written in a style which would
suggest someone of her age and if Mr Howell means by scrawl that the
signature Joyce Hatto was not clearly evident then that does not
square with the handwritten letter I received. I did not get a
Christmas card so I would not be able to compare it with any
computerised version.
Mine was A4 I think, one page. It is perfectly possible she resorted
to the computer for the lengthy messages Mr Howell has mentioned.
As to speculation about her mental state I do not know except to say
that from the conversation I had at her funeral with her neighbour I
did not get the impression that she was any way impaired in day to day
terms (The psychology I will leave to the real experts on here). In
fact the neighbour was more concerned that W B-C would not be able to
cope without her. She strongly gave me the impression that JH was an
active force in their relationship.
Indeed, as I believe I posted, when the funeral service was late
starting she cracked a joke about hearing Joyce telling her husband to
"get on with it."
This was said through tears and apparently with some affection so I
don't have a vision of someone mostly "out of it".
Kind regards,
Alan M. Watkins
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:1172098434.012772.90360
@v45g2000cwv.googlegroups.com:
> Incidentally - to those attuned to language and dramatic nuance, do
> the "Hatto" letters remind anyone of a frequent RMCR contributor with
> a seemingly endless supply of colorful musical antecdotes?
Do the letters seem to have a touch o' the old blarney about them?
kerrison1...@yahoo.co.uk
wrote:
... and the exact date of her death was ..... ? ..... and the exact
place where she is buried is ..... ?
John Briggs
>
> I agree with with your preference. Too bad there aren't many, if any,
> critics writing at Virgil Thomson's level today. But I also don't
> know that you can take his ability to write about friends and
> necessarily apply it to other critics across the board. It could be
> that the very qualities of mind that made him such a good critic were
> also what allowed him to write "objectively" about friends.
Anthony Burgess was once sacked for reviewing under one pseudonym a book he
had written under another... He felt this was unfair, as he had given a
very balanced review - he felt he was in the best position to understand the
book and point out its shortcomings :-)
--
John Briggs
Thornhill
> > In article <1172103470.261710.143...@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>, gru...@hotmail.com says...
> > On Feb 21, 10:32 am, "Thornhill" <seth.l...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Feb 21, 9:14 am, Kirk McElhearn <kir...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > 2) Critics are always courted by those with something to sell,
> > starting with the free CD/DVD/performance itself. Your 'standards'
> > would prevent a theatre critic from having almost any friends in the
> > theatre, because there would hardly be a show from which he wouldn't
> > have to recuse himself. This is almost as true in the music business.
>
> Standards on this vary, reviewer to reviewer, and the standard of
> behaviour seemed to vary in country to country, and art to art. I
> don't remember who it was, but I think it was a New York-based reviewer
> I read within the last year talking about this very thing, and saying
> how he avoided friendships with people he reviewed, and vice versa.
This is an issue with film critics. While some refuse to even accept
free movie tickets and festival passes, others gladly go to private
behind the scenes tours of movie productions, with a free hotel room
in LA, buffets, gift baskets, photos with stars, etc.
A. Brain
> following
> letters to be typed in news:1172098434.012772.90360
> @v45g2000cwv.googlegroups.com:
>
>> Incidentally - to those attuned to language and dramatic nuance, do
>> the "Hatto" letters remind anyone of a frequent RMCR contributor with
>> a seemingly endless supply of colorful musical antecdotes?
My thoughts exactly.
But given that Hatto was at one time urged to quit music
and learn to cook a roast, why wasn't B-C pushing a
Joyce Hatto cookbook as well? It could have been
along the lines of those two English women who had
a tv show with the most ghastly concoctions.
I can't remember who it is, but some organist out
there used to have her jams and jellies for sale
at recitals.
--
A. Brain
Remove NOSPAM for email.
REG
"Josep Vilanova" <josepv...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1172093728....@t69g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
Perhaps the last name was Peron?
>
> j
>
REG
<johnlew...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:1172082019.6...@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 21, 10:58 am, Paul Ilechko <pilec...@patmedia.net> wrote:
>> >> --
>> >> Read my blog, Kirkvillehttp://www.mcelhearn.com
>>
>> > journalistic integrity by becoming friends with Barrington-Coupe? They
>> > essentially became his shill.
>>
>> you buy the response or not is up to you.
>
> It comes across very clear that both husband and wife were sick
> puppies. The diagnosis, it seems to me, is going to make the
> forthcoming documentary, which must be inevitable, very interesting.
> I'm surprised that no recent pictures of the lady can;t be found.
> That would make it easier to guess at her physical (and mental?) state
> of mind, and to guess at the extent to which she may have been
> involved in this quite massive hoax. The correspondence is beyond
> belief.
>
> JG
My own guess is that she was always somewhat delusional, and probably became
more so as she became more isolated professionally. She lived increasingly
in a world of fantasy and detachment, and B-C shared this (as well as his
criminal history, which I don't discount). The Sunset Boulevard analogy
isn't really off the mark, although I don't think B-C was "quite" as
benevolent as Max. I think that had they just been crooks, they would have
released fewer records and been more careful. As it was, it was all there
for everyone to see, and people just didn't want to.
>
REG
<alanwa...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1172105773....@l53g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
But she would not have had to have been out of it to be living in a
grandiose world of fantasy. Of course, there was some kind of folie-a-deux
going on with B-C, I think, and my guess is that he was the more dominant
person, and her need to live in a non-existent world played into his own
fantasies, and his own greed. She would not have had to be impaired in any
obvious way to be living in a world of fantasy, and neither would he.
Bob S
> This is any kind of "evidence" at all, but is rather idle
> amusement.
> However, the "Gender Genie" website (based on an algorithm
> that attempts to identify whether the writer of a passage
> of prose was male or female) guesses with its algorithm
> that almost all (but not all) of those e-mails to Mr.
> Howell supposedly from "Joyce Hatto" were actually written
> by a male. (These are, of course, algorithmic guesses and
> very much not 100% accurate.>
> The website can be found at:
>
> http://www.bookblog.net/gender/genie.html
For what it's worth, the Gender Genie gives your message the
following grades: Female Score, 128; Male Score, 101.
--
Bob S.
Brendan R. Wehrung
> On Feb 21, 10:58 am, Paul Ilechko <pilec...@patmedia.net> wrote:
>> Thornhill wrote:
>> >>http://www.musicweb.uk.net/classrev/2007/Feb07/Hatto_Howell.htm
>> >> --
>> >> Read my blog, Kirkvillehttp://www.mcelhearn.com
>>
>> > journalistic integrity by becoming friends with Barrington-Coupe? They
>> > essentially became his shill.
>>
>> They have answered that question at length on this newsgroup... whether
>> you buy the response or not is up to you.
>
> It comes across very clear that both husband and wife were sick
> puppies. The diagnosis, it seems to me, is going to make the
> forthcoming documentary, which must be inevitable, very interesting.
> I'm surprised that no recent pictures of the lady can;t be found.
> That would make it easier to guess at her physical (and mental?) state
> of mind, and to guess at the extent to which she may have been
> involved in this quite massive hoax. The correspondence is beyond
> belief.
>
> JG
>
Oh I can see it now, interviews with the stafff of her cancer clinic and
shots lifted from traffic control cameras covering roads that lead to it.
Jerry Bruckenheimer take note!
Brendan
Bob S
>I have read Mr Howell's piece. [snip]
And the Gender Genie yields the following scores for this
message: Female, 734; Male, 448.
Ha!
--
Bob S.
Andrew Clarke
> Sorry, but a lot of this criticism of MusicWeb does seem to be a load of
> pompous, self-righteous crap...
It's turned into a typical rmcr conspiracy theory, only this time
there really *does* seem to have been a conspiracy. Unfortunately,
like Stalin's purges it now extends to guilt by association: "So you
called him Bill, did you Komrad Watkins?" "So you recommended his
recordings, Komrad Distler?" etc., etc.
The assumption is that whoever did not denounce the Trotsky-Fascist
Barrington-Coupes must have been "on the take" from the outset.
Unfortunately for yourself, you have now been caught out defending one
of the principal conspirators, so you are possibly under suspicion
yourself. "Yes, Komrad Rose, we know you were among the first to
expose the Barrington-Coupe clique -- how clever of you to try to put
us of the scent in such an ingenious manner, etc., etc."
The usual suspects -- The Gram(m)ophone*, etc. -- have already been
consigned to the Lubyanka. It is only a matter of time before Murray
Perahia, Alfred Brendel and Norman Lebrecht are rounded up and
pursuaded to make a full confession of their crimes.
*Yet another lot of non-British musicians in Editor's Choice this
month I see. In fact the only British bunch in the lot is the London
Philharmonic, and even that's conducted by an American.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
CarsonCooman
>
> For what it's worth, the Gender Genie gives your message the
> following grades: Female Score, 128; Male Score, 101.
> --
>
> Bob S.
It does note on the page that for best results, it requires a text
sample longer than 500 words... (Most of the "Hatto" e-mails are. My
message is 93 words.)
TareeDawg
news:1172125863.8...@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
YES, YES, YES ... narrowed down to the North American continent ...
WHO was in the most Hatto threads, prior to Hatto-Gate?
GUILTY ..... GUILTY .... GUILTY .... <the mob screams>
.... to the stocks .... and OFF with his/her head ....
We want BLOOD ... real BLOOD ... not fake blood, but REAL blood.
Ray H (frothing hilariously at the mouth)
Taree, NSW
Lookingglass
"TareeDawg" <rayt...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:erjevh$vcl$1...@aioe.org...
>
> YES, YES, YES ... narrowed down to the North American continent ...
>
> WHO was in the most Hatto threads, prior to Hatto-Gate?
>
> GUILTY ..... GUILTY .... GUILTY .... <the mob screams>
> .... to the stocks .... and OFF with his/her head ....
>
> We want BLOOD ... real BLOOD ... not fake blood, but REAL blood.
>
> Ray H (frothing hilariously at the mouth)
> Taree, NSW
...knitting needles at the ready!
kerrison1...@yahoo.co.uk
> > In article <1172106373.541439.139...@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>, kerrison126-spar...@yahoo.co.uk says...
> <...>
>
> > ... and the exact date of her death was ..... ? ..... and the exact
> > place where she is buried is ..... ?
>
> don't bury cremations, necessarily.
>
> wr
... and the exact name and location of the crematorium where she went
up in smoke is .... ?
Kirk McElhearn
> I think that Len M. doesn't do any of the criticism. He's not been too
> good at clarifying the questions here, but it looks to me that his
> point is that he did the order-handling for the Concert Artist discs
> and of course would have contacts with Barrington-Coupe regarding the
> orders, but that he exerted no control in the Hatto reviews and did not
> act as middle-man between Concert Artist and the reviewers of the Hatto
> CDs.
Len doesn't write any reviews. He manages all the review copies, sends
them out to reviewers, runs the site, and, for a few labels such as
Concert Artists, sells CDs by taking orders and passing them on to the
labels.
Kirk (who writes occasional reviews for MusicWeb)
--
Read my blog, Kirkville
http://www.mcelhearn.com
Andrej Kluge
Kirk McElhearn schrieb:
> http://www.musicweb.uk.net/classrev/2007/Feb07/Hatto_Howell.htm
I can recommend this article wholeheartedly to everyone interested in the JH
story -- a very comprehensive and insightful view of the issue, with inside
information en masse, and some very thoughtful surmises as to the possible
motives and background of the hoax. To these ears, Howell sounds utterly
convincing in his
role.
Since I cannot read such lengths of text at the computer (I'd get sore
eyes), I printed the entire 33 pages and bound them neatly into a booklet. A
very pleasant read, well written, and good for some hearty laughs, too!
(Incidentally, the format of the article brought up fond memories of Stephen
King's story "The Plant" -- solely consisting of correspondence exchange)
Thanks, Mr. Howell.
Ciao
A.
PS: *My* guts squirm every time I see somebody writing "their" where a
"there" would be appropriate :)
Tony Overington
Yes please inform us. I'd like to follow this up.