Plácido Domingo: 'I don't own an iPod. I like the old 33, even 78.'

Oscar

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Oct 11, 2012, 4:07:33 AM10/11/12

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'It's not right!'

Those were the exclamatory words spoken by the famous tenor as he told Jay Leno on tonight's Tonight Show (10/10) about this disdain for the iPod. Like, totally seriously.

Here is the full text of the discussion, started with Leno's question 'What pop songs are on your iPod?,' which was a follow-up to their talking about Domingo's admitted fondness for karaoke. The chat was preceded with Leno's congratulating Domingo on his recent 50 year wedding anniversary. Domingo was also the musical guest.

Domingo: Yeah, there are, uh, pop songs. You know, my iPod [grimaces]...[now confessing] I mean, I don't have an iPod, honestly.

Leno: No?

Domingo: No. [shakes head back-and-forth, unashamed]

(Audience laughs)

Leno: You have a Victrola.

(More laughter)

Domingo: I tell you what, I refuse _completely_ to know that what I have been...over 40 years in the recording studios, live performances, EVERYTHING you have done in your life, it could be in just a little thing like that [holds up index finger and thumb]. You know, I don't think it's fair. (Some audience laughter but Domingo is dead serious) I like very much still the old 33 records, even 78's, and today, okay, the CD's. But the iPod [frowns]...I really feel (mumbles unintelligibly) WHY?! 40 years, just there. It's not right!'

BRAVO!!

VIDEO: http://tiny.cc/366zlw (preceded by mandatory 30 second commercial)

Steve de Mena

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Oct 11, 2012, 6:31:57 AM10/11/12

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On 10/11/12 1:07 AM, Oscar wrote:

> Domingo: I tell you what, I refuse _completely_ to know that what I have been...over 40 years in the recording studios, live performances, EVERYTHING you have done in your life, it could be in just a little thing like that [holds up index finger and thumb]. You know, I don't think it's fair. (Some audience laughter but Domingo is dead serious) I like very much still the old 33 records, even 78's, and today, okay, the CD's. But the iPod [frowns]...I really feel (mumbles unintelligibly) WHY?! 40 years, just there. It's not right!'
>
> BRAVO!!

Bravo? I don't understand a statement saying "It's not right" when
talking about the iPod. Downright stupid, if you ask me.

Don't miss - EVER - the day I stopped listening to LPs and moved on to
newer technologies.

Steve

Christopher Webber

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Oct 11, 2012, 7:03:17 AM10/11/12

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On 11/10/2012 11:31, Steve de Mena wrote:
> I don't understand a statement saying "It's not right" when talking
> about the iPod.

If one cares about how performances sound, the statement seems to me
perfectly explicable.

Matters are certainly "not right" when it's becoming so nearly
impossible to hear one's recordings in the best quality sound available;
and where sound is consciously "grunged down" to sound cheap. An iPod
does not give one the best sound, or anything like it. It remains a
fashion accessory, first and foremost (and nothing wrong with that,
except aesthetically).

As for other hardware, try sourcing a good quality CD walkman these days
- beyond bog-standard, flimsy Sony it is not easy. I did find a delisted
panasonic which does the trick, but it's not any better than the one I
bought in 1997.

So I'd imagine that the majority of people on this newsgroup might
sympathise with him.

Oscar

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Oct 11, 2012, 7:12:10 AM10/11/12

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On Thursday, October 11, 2012 3:31:57 AM, Steven de Mena wrote:
>
> Bravo? I don't understand a statement saying "It's not right" when
> talking about the iPod. Downright stupid, if you ask me.

Maestro Domingo is not a stupid man. Maybe sentimental, but not stupid. I was just happy to hear such a frank statement of heartfelt earnestness about format and music delivery on late night TV. Most people have lo-fi downloads on their iPods, so I BRAVO Domingo's sentimentality because it is a) heartfelt, and b) in addition to simple 'missing the old 33', Doming is probably coming at this from an audiophile point of view.

> Don't miss - EVER - the day I stopped listening to LPs and moved on to
> newer technologies.

I have noticed you really do like to let vinyl lovers 'have it', but I am not one to say any format is superior to another — I am format agnostic. Where the best sound is, I go (except reel-to-reel). You seem to be 'new technology' only, without _necessarily_ seeking to ascertain which is best sound. Convenience is important. And I understand! Who wants buy the equipment and maintain the rig and put up with all the BS of owning and operating a well-regulated turntable and cleaning records? As you know, it can be highly annoying and frustrating. I've been searching for a new turntable for the last few years, and it's mind-numbing all the stuff to consider. But the payoffs are great, in my experience. Remember those Hi-Q Records 180g EMI vinyl reissues I was talking about months ago, well, they are now starting to appear on XRCD http://tiny.cc/h0g0lw I would love to own some of those — the sound is bound to be incredible if the LP's are any indication — but now way I'm going to double-dip. The LP's sound better than any stock EMI CD of those titles, for sure. You're just going to have to take my word for it. Till 24/96 downloads come, I will still be buying CD's and LP''s.

Oscar

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Oct 11, 2012, 7:16:51 AM10/11/12

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On Thursday, October 11, 2012 4:12:10 AM, Oscar wrote:
>
>Remember those Hi-Q Records 180g EMI vinyl reissues I was talking
> about months ago, well, they are now starting to appear on XRCD

> [BAD LINK]

Working links to the new Hi-Q XRCD's:

Orff Carmina Previn http://tiny.cc/jih0lw
Tchaik 1812 Previn http://tiny.cc/hjh0lw
Holst Planets Previn http://tiny.cc/7jh0lw
Greig Gynt Beecham http://tiny.cc/xkh0lw

Oscar

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Oct 11, 2012, 7:25:13 AM10/11/12

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On Thursday, October 11, 2012 4:03:21 AM, Christopher Webber wrote:
>
> As for other hardware, try sourcing a good quality CD walkman these days
> - beyond bog-standard, flimsy Sony it is not easy. I did find a delisted
> panasonic which does the trick, but it's not any better than the one I
> bought in 1997.

This is the one I have. Use it all the time, purchased June 2001, still works. Sony D-SJ15 http://tiny.cc/6wh0lw The new ones are cheap crap. Go to eBay and get a used one.

> So I'd imagine that the majority of people on this newsgroup might
> sympathise with him.

Yep, and I own two iPods.

Gerard

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Oct 11, 2012, 7:26:32 AM10/11/12

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Steve de Mena <st...@demena.com> typed:

> On 10/11/12 1:07 AM, Oscar wrote:
>
> > Domingo: I tell you what, I refuse _completely_ to know that what I
> > have been...over 40 years in the recording studios, live
> > performances, EVERYTHING you have done in your life, it could be in
> > just a little thing like that [holds up index finger and thumb].
> > You know, I don't think it's fair. (Some audience laughter but
> > Domingo is dead serious) I like very much still the old 33 records,
> > even 78's, and today, okay, the CD's. But the iPod [frowns]...I
> > really feel (mumbles unintelligibly) WHY?! 40 years, just there.
> > It's not right!'
> >
> > BRAVO!!
>
> Bravo? I don't understand a statement saying "It's not right" when
> talking about the iPod. Downright stupid, if you ask me.
>

Calling other people (or old people) "stupid" because they think differently
(from you), is not right.

Kimba W Lion

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Oct 11, 2012, 9:10:52 AM10/11/12

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Oscar <oscaredwar...@gmail.com> wrote:

>I like very much still the old 33 records, even 78's, and today, okay, the CD's. But the iPod [frowns]...I really feel (mumbles unintelligibly) WHY?!

A celebrity speaks out against the Cult of Apple on national TV!
December 21 fast approaches...

George

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Oct 11, 2012, 10:14:28 AM10/11/12

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I fail to understand why an iPod (or iPhone or Android device) playing a lossles file hooked up to a good amp/speakers combo or good headphones gives you worst quality than a portable CD player.

Sure, the quality of the DAC needs to be considered (an I believe iPhone and iPod is of decent quality) but this is true for both device types.

A portable cd player has also to compromise over the transport issues, whether they are true or not, audiophiles pay K's for the solution. Playing lossles files on either a portable device or network player like squeezebox or naim eliminates the issue all together.

George

Christopher Webber

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Oct 11, 2012, 12:13:29 PM10/11/12

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On 11/10/2012 15:14, George wrote:
> I fail to understand why an iPod (or iPhone or Android device) playing a lossles file hooked up to a good amp/speakers combo or good headphones gives you worst quality than a portable CD player.

I was talking about PORTABLE devices, which is the central use of an
iPod. I use the admirable Panasonic portable CD player when I'm away
from home and want better quality than FLAC on my (none the less
excellent) MP3 player.

I'm afraid that lossless files played through anything will not sound
too great if everything's hooked into an iPod, compared with a good
single-purpose CD unit, at least for my needs.

jrsnfld

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Oct 11, 2012, 12:59:23 PM10/11/12

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That's fine for you, but I think you're misunderstanding Domingo here.
You take an extreme stance because you think he's taking an extreme
Luddite's stance. But he's not.

You have to remember that Domingo is a musician--it is his livelihood,
it is his obsession. By nature he has to be a perfectionist about it
or he wouldn't have gotten to be who he is. Maybe that means he
doesn't like the compromise of mp3 sound and has never bothered to
find out that there are lossless alternatives. But actually, I don't
think that the sound, per se, is the main reason he objects to the
little box.

So when Domingo says, for him, it is anathema to shrink a life's work
into a little box, I don't think he's upset about the miniaturization,
per se, even though he sort of jokingly points out that paradox, as if
that offends him. Rather, I suspect he's never been much into portable
music because, by their nature, such devices are for people who like
to listen to music *while they are doing something else*. That's not
how musicians do their work. That's the last thing they want.

I suspect that Domingo can only stand listening when it is an
intensive experience to the exclusion of all else--I mean when it is
his choice, of course (he probably doesn't walk out of restaurants
just because they have background soundtrack). And after spending his
entire day "at the office" with live music, I doubt seriously if he
ever really spends all that much time listening to LPs or CDs, let
alone piping background music into his brain while he's folding
laundry. I'll bet he actually likes to take a break from music, given
the opportunity.

There's nothing extreme or surprising about his not having or wanting
an iPod.

--Jeff

George

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Oct 11, 2012, 1:53:54 PM10/11/12

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On Thursday, October 11, 2012 12:13:34 PM UTC-4, Christopher Webber wrote:
> On 11/10/2012 15:14, George wrote:
>
> > I fail to understand why an iPod (or iPhone or Android device) playing a lossles file hooked up to a good amp/speakers combo or good headphones gives you worst quality than a portable CD player.
>
>
>
> I was talking about PORTABLE devices, which is the central use of an
>
> iPod. I use the admirable Panasonic portable CD player when I'm away
>
> from home and want better quality than FLAC on my (none the less
>
> excellent) MP3 player.

I was also talking about portable devices. Apple or other devices are not limited to mp3 only, they can play lossles files. Also, unless your portable is blue ray or HD-Audio, you can not get better quality than lossles (like flac).

You can also play high rez content (higher than CD 16/44.1) on most portable devices however it is questionable if anybody can hear the difference on portables. It is a personal matter.

>
>
>
> I'm afraid that lossless files played through anything will not sound
>
> too great if everything's hooked into an iPod, compared with a good
>
> single-purpose CD unit, at least for my needs.

I remember UHF Magazine (audiophile) article comparing early generation iPod hooked up to expensive gear and comparing it to their reference systems. iPod did very well in comparison.

I'm not advocating using iPod as you home base player, not at all. But I'm confident that as a portable player playing lossles, it beats down any portable player.

I'm not an Apple user (I had iPhone 3 once but got rid of it, don't like their business model), my argument is generally speaking against dedicated CD players and in favor of lossles music files. I use squeezebox music server and Transporter or Touch for serious listening. I still have an expansive CD player but it is gathering dust, as I don't have 5K to up my squeezeboxes.

George

O

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Oct 11, 2012, 3:02:32 PM10/11/12

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In article <adnnbn...@mid.individual.net>, Christopher Webber

<zarz...@zarzuela.invalid.net> wrote:

> Matters are certainly "not right" when it's becoming so nearly
> impossible to hear one's recordings in the best quality sound available;
> and where sound is consciously "grunged down" to sound cheap. An iPod
> does not give one the best sound, or anything like it. It remains a
> fashion accessory, first and foremost (and nothing wrong with that,
> except aesthetically).

iPod have pretty good DACs, so you can get good sound out of them. Not
with the crummy earbuds, but using a decent pair of headphones, say a
Sennheiser PX-100, at least, or for great sound, try the Nav2Guy's
build it yourself headphone amp with a pair of Sennheiser 600's.

-Owen

O

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Oct 11, 2012, 3:05:11 PM10/11/12

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In article <ado9hc...@mid.individual.net>, Christopher Webber

<zarz...@zarzuela.invalid.net> wrote:

> On 11/10/2012 15:14, George wrote:
> > I fail to understand why an iPod (or iPhone or Android device) playing a
> > lossles file hooked up to a good amp/speakers combo or good headphones
> > gives you worst quality than a portable CD player.
>
> I was talking about PORTABLE devices, which is the central use of an
> iPod. I use the admirable Panasonic portable CD player when I'm away
> from home and want better quality than FLAC on my (none the less
> excellent) MP3 player.

FLAC is lossless, so you won't get any better quality. Certainly not
with MP3, which is, by definition, a lossy format.

>
> I'm afraid that lossless files played through anything will not sound
> too great if everything's hooked into an iPod, compared with a good
> single-purpose CD unit, at least for my needs.

An iPod, given an appropriate output device (good speakers or
headphones) will give good sound quality, comparable to practically any
portable device.

-Owen

randy...@gmail.com

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Oct 11, 2012, 3:17:14 PM10/11/12

to

> I suspect that Domingo can only stand listening when it is an
>
> intensive experience to the exclusion of all else--I mean when it is
>
> his choice, of course (he probably doesn't walk out of restaurants
>
> just because they have background soundtrack). And after spending his
>
> entire day "at the office" with live music, I doubt seriously if he
>
> ever really spends all that much time listening to LPs or CDs, let
>
> alone piping background music into his brain while he's folding
>
> laundry. I'll bet he actually likes to take a break from music, given
>
> the opportunity.
>
> There's nothing extreme or surprising about his not having or wanting
>
> an iPod.
>
> --Jeff

I share your opinion, and will add another of my own.

iPods are capable of high quality audio reproduction when used with carefully ripped or downloaded files of high quality. Doing do though also requires listening through some other means than the cheap rubbish earphones that sip with all iPods. There are many options ranging from higher end earphones to external headphone and speaker amplifiers.

The truth of the matter be though, the vast majority of users settle for the rubbish available with low quality downloads and the listening devices that ship with the iPod. And I believe that is why Domingo rejects the notion entirely.

wkasimer

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Oct 11, 2012, 3:30:56 PM10/11/12

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On Oct 11, 3:17 pm, randy.l...@gmail.com wrote:

> The truth of the matter be though, the vast majority of users settle for the rubbish available with low quality downloads and the listening devices that ship with the iPod. And I believe that is why Domingo rejects the notion entirely.

I have no idea why Domingo rejects the iPod concept - one can really
glean nothing from that interview - but I doubt that it has anything
to do with sonic quality.

Bill

David Fox

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Oct 11, 2012, 4:20:48 PM10/11/12

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On 10/11/12 1:07 AM, Oscar wrote:

So if somebody enclosed the disk drive or iPod of his complete
recordings in a giant enclosure that filled a room, would that make him
feel better or more important?

One of the things I actually like about current trends is the separation
of music from the mass of material required to convey it. I started
collecting recordings because I love listening to music. I don't love
filling my life with things.

DF

Gerard

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Oct 11, 2012, 4:34:45 PM10/11/12

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jrsnfld <jrs...@aol.com> typed:

>
>
> So when Domingo says, for him, it is anathema to shrink a life's work
> into a little box, I don't think he's upset about the miniaturization,
> per se, even though he sort of jokingly points out that paradox, as if
> that offends him. Rather, I suspect he's never been much into portable
> music because, by their nature, such devices are for people who like
> to listen to music *while they are doing something else*.

And/or think to need to hear music during 20 hours a day, wherever they are,
whatever they do.

Kip Williams

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Oct 11, 2012, 4:48:18 PM10/11/12

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wkasimer wrote, On 10/11/12 3:30 PM:

Lacking definitive explanation, the interview is a sort of ink blot on
which one writes his or her own meaning. Therefore, I conclude that he
rejects the iPod because it is a kangaroo holding a bouquet of flowers.

Kip W

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Oct 11, 2012, 6:08:36 PM10/11/12

to

On 10/11/12 9:59 AM, jrsnfld wrote:
> On Oct 11, 3:31 am, Steve de Mena <st...@demena.com> wrote:
>> On 10/11/12 1:07 AM, Oscar wrote:
>>
>>> Domingo: I tell you what, I refuse _completely_ to know that what I have been...over 40 years in the recording studios, live performances, EVERYTHING you have done in your life, it could be in just a little thing like that [holds up index finger and thumb]. You know, I don't think it's fair. (Some audience laughter but Domingo is dead serious) I like very much still the old 33 records, even 78's, and today, okay, the CD's. But the iPod [frowns]...I really feel (mumbles unintelligibly) WHY?! 40 years, just there. It's not right!'
>>
>>> BRAVO!!
>>
>> Bravo? I don't understand a statement saying "It's not right" when
>> talking about the iPod. Downright stupid, if you ask me.
>>
>> Don't miss - EVER - the day I stopped listening to LPs and moved on to
>> newer technologies.
>
> That's fine for you, but I think you're misunderstanding Domingo here.
> You take an extreme stance because you think he's taking an extreme
> Luddite's stance. But he's not.
>
> You have to remember that Domingo is a musician--it is his livelihood,
> it is his obsession. By nature he has to be a perfectionist about it
> or he wouldn't have gotten to be who he is. Maybe that means he
> doesn't like the compromise of mp3 sound and has never bothered to
> find out that there are lossless alternatives. But actually, I don't
> think that the sound, per se, is the main reason he objects to the
> little box.

What's funny is that Apple has never offered MP3s in the iTunes store,
yet everyone equates iPods with crappy MP3s.

>
> So when Domingo says, for him, it is anathema to shrink a life's work
> into a little box, I don't think he's upset about the miniaturization,
> per se, even though he sort of jokingly points out that paradox, as if
> that offends him. Rather, I suspect he's never been much into portable
> music because, by their nature, such devices are for people who like
> to listen to music *while they are doing something else*. That's not
> how musicians do their work. That's the last thing they want.
>
> I suspect that Domingo can only stand listening when it is an
> intensive experience to the exclusion of all else--I mean when it is
> his choice, of course (he probably doesn't walk out of restaurants
> just because they have background soundtrack). And after spending his
> entire day "at the office" with live music, I doubt seriously if he
> ever really spends all that much time listening to LPs or CDs, let
> alone piping background music into his brain while he's folding
> laundry. I'll bet he actually likes to take a break from music, given
> the opportunity.
>
> There's nothing extreme or surprising about his not having or wanting
> an iPod.
>
> --Jeff
>

Doesn't make any sense. I imagine the majority of world class
traveling musicians carry one.

Steve

Steve de Mena

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Oct 11, 2012, 6:11:56 PM10/11/12

to

Many of his fans probably had well-worn LPs with many pops and clicks.
I guess he should reject LPs too? Although I rip in Lossless format
myself, I imagine an iTunes 256kbps AAC format download of one of his
recordings sounds better than the average listener's turntable and
cartridge from 30 years ago.

Steve

Steve de Mena

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Oct 11, 2012, 6:16:02 PM10/11/12

to

On 10/11/12 3:31 AM, Steve de Mena wrote:

Domingo seems to have an aversion to headphones, period.

"‘ My No. 1 rule is I do not put anything in my ears. No iPod, nothing
like this. Even on a plane I won’t put the headphones on to watch a
film. When I am teaching, I tell all the young musicians “never put
something in your ear to hear music”. Hear it naturally. Then memorize
it. The ear is the most precious thing a singer has.’

Read more:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/reviews/article-2139304/Unlikely-fan-Why-operas-biggest-star-Placido-Domingo-crazy-Lady-Gaga.html#ixzz29200dSdr

Steve

J.Martin

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unread,

Oct 11, 2012, 7:50:40 PM10/11/12

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On Oct 11, 3:11 pm, Steve de Mena <st...@demena.com> wrote:

Your logic is right. Sound quality has little or nothing to do with
Domingo's objections.

--Jeff

jrsnfld

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Oct 11, 2012, 7:52:36 PM10/11/12

to

Maybe most do; but I know plenty of musicians who think the way I've
described. When they're off, they take a break from music. Or they are
uncomfortable listening in the manner that most of the rest of us do.
It doesn't surprise me that it doesn't make sense to you, but I can
tell you that is how they feel.

--Jeff

Christopher Webber

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Oct 11, 2012, 7:52:50 PM10/11/12

to

On 11/10/2012 23:42, J.Martin wrote:
> I can understand it on at least one level: iPods and other portable
> devices have really changed the way people experience music, and in a
> way that's not at all positive for 'serious' musicians. More than the
> the walkman, or the portable CD player, the iPod turned music into
> wallpaper, as far as most people are concerned. I can understand
> thinking that's "not right."

I think the Walkman did that about forty years ago - but otherwise
you're perfectly right!

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Oct 12, 2012, 11:55:47 AM10/12/12

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> imagine.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Steve has made it clear over the years (boy, has he ever made it
clear) that he is quite enamored with computers, online shopping,
digital formats, and pretty much everything about the new technology
that's changed how we shop, listen to music, etc. He clearly finds it
unimaginable that anyone would not share his enthusiasm. Which would
be OK if he didn't always insist that the people who disagreed with
him either a) don't exist or b) must be complete idiots.

Gerard

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Oct 12, 2012, 12:08:31 PM10/12/12

to

J.Martin <mista...@yahoo.com> typed:

That's more or less the case. He is - in his imagination of course - the centre
of the universe and the norm for everything that lives in it.
Many times he reminds me of a typical kind of help desk guys, who say:

"Do you have a problem with internet? I just checked internet. *I* have no
problem with internet. So there is no problem with internet. It must be you."

Christopher Webber

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Oct 12, 2012, 12:54:45 PM10/12/12

to

On 12/10/2012 16:49, J.Martin wrote:
> With the ipod, you don't do any choosing,
> and it'll play for hours without your paying the slightest attention
> to it.

It's one not having to pay the slightest attention that's perhaps the
trouble!

Norman Schwartz

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Oct 12, 2012, 1:23:09 PM10/12/12

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"Gerard" <ghendr-no...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b0d2f$50784082$5356543a$39...@cache60.multikabel.net...

That reminds me. After receiving a gift iPad I went to my local Apple store
to have them assist me in configuring it. Time lapse about 30 minutes; two
of their experts assured me that as my iPad showed them, my email account
was not existant and therefore invalid.

>
>

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Oct 12, 2012, 2:44:14 PM10/12/12

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In article <50785716$0$9832$607e...@cv.net>, Norman Schwartz

<nm...@optonline.net> wrote:

> >>
> >>
> >> That reminds me. After receiving a gift iPad I went to my local Apple
> >> store
> >>
> >> to have them assist me in configuring it. Time lapse about 30 minutes;
> >> two
> >>
> >> of their experts assured me that as my iPad showed them, my email account
> >>
> >> was not existant and therefore invalid.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >
> > and if Apple doesnt recognize your email address then you just don't
> > exist.
>
> Well, using the same password and email address I provided to them, I felt
> myself obliged for us to go to one of the store's computers and log into my
> email account, thereby recovering my 'web mail', I didn't receive any
> apology from them because as everyone already knows all Apple devices are
> both user friendly and perfect.
>
>

Do you really think the Apple employees wanted your email to fail?

There's a lot of reasons why email might not work on any device, namely:

1) mistyping (including capitalization) of email and password.
2) mistyping of pop3, imap or smtp server name
3) trying to open an imap server as a pop3 or vice versa.
4) you might have only a "webmail" account and don't use pop3 or imap.
5) various firewall or authentication settings.

Email predates Apple and most everything else.

Did you ever get your email configured?

-Owen

George

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Oct 12, 2012, 4:06:20 PM10/12/12

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Why this is marked as abuse? It has been marked as abuse.

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Are you suggesting that a secure EAC rip into lossles flac is losing some part of the data ? That the result sounds differently than the original given same quality playback system ?

Norman Schwartz

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Oct 12, 2012, 6:40:55 PM10/12/12

to

"O" <ow...@denofinequityx.com> wrote in message
news:121020121444140548%ow...@denofinequityx.com...

Owen, thanks for asking, and yes I did.

> -Owen

Kip Williams

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Oct 12, 2012, 7:21:45 PM10/12/12

to

Norman Schwartz wrote, On 10/12/12 1:44 PM:

> Well, using the same password and email address I provided to them, I felt
> myself obliged for us to go to one of the store's computers and log into my
> email account, thereby recovering my 'web mail', I didn't receive any
> apology from them because as everyone already knows all Apple devices are
> both user friendly and perfect.

Well, that goes without saying! Just as it goes without saying that
everybody would rather take their hands off the keyboard, reach for the
mouse, mouse to a menu, pull the menu down to the appropriate choice,
and click or release, then find their place on the keyboard and go back
to typing ï¿½ rather than, say, click on a keyboard shortcut and keep
typing without having to do any of that mouse stuff.

Kip W

Kip Williams

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Oct 12, 2012, 7:22:22 PM10/12/12

to

Norman Schwartz wrote, On 10/12/12 1:23 PM:

> "Gerard" <ghendr-no...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:b0d2f$50784082$5356543a$39...@cache60.multikabel.net...

>> "Do you have a problem with internet? I just checked internet. *I* have no
>> problem with internet. So there is no problem with internet. It must be
>> you."
>
> That reminds me. After receiving a gift iPad I went to my local Apple store
> to have them assist me in configuring it. Time lapse about 30 minutes; two
> of their experts assured me that as my iPad showed them, my email account
> was not existant and therefore invalid.

Not quite the same thing, but I recently made use of a web page that
exists to tell the curious if a web page is up and running or not. It's
a real time saver once in a while.

http://www.websitenotworking.com

Kip W

Christopher Webber

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Oct 12, 2012, 7:40:28 PM10/12/12

to

On 12/10/2012 21:06, George wrote:
> Are you suggesting that a secure EAC rip into lossles flac is losing some part of the data ? That the result sounds differently than the original given same quality playback system ?

No. I'm reminding us all that the "Red Book" format for CD is
two-channel, 16-bit encoding at a 44.1 kHz sampling rate per channel.
Even in my own, amateur editing (with Adobe Audition) I tend to work on
64-bit files with a much higher sampling rate, for increased control and
accuracy. If my digital source material is not CD to start with, which
of course it normally isn't, there's a loss once the results are put
onto CD.

Art

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Oct 13, 2012, 11:38:13 AM10/13/12

to

On Fri, 12 Oct 2012 18:08:31 +0200, "Gerard"
<ghendr-no...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> That's more or less the case. He is - in his imagination of course
- the centre
> of the universe and the norm for everything that lives in it.

Sounds like your average internet poster.

Art

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Oct 13, 2012, 11:49:57 AM10/13/12

to

On Thu, 11 Oct 2012 09:10:52 -0400, Kimba W Lion
<noreplie...@norepliesbyemail.invalid> wrote:
> A celebrity speaks out against the Cult of Apple on national TV!

This doesn't happen often therefore this is a historic event! I don't
own a single Apple product. I don't care for their business model and
Steve Jobs seemed so smug to me.
To be fair I don't use Microsoft products anymore either. I'm into
"open" computing.

unread,

Oct 14, 2012, 8:05:05 AM10/14/12

to

Steve de Mena <st...@demena.com> typed:

I don't think so.
I'ld say that the *content* of the file is compressed - with a smaller file size
as result.

Gerard

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Oct 14, 2012, 8:07:00 AM10/14/12

to

Steve de Mena <st...@demena.com> typed:

> On 10/12/12 1:06 PM, George wrote:
> > On Thursday, October 11, 2012 7:50:21 PM UTC-4, Christopher Webber
> > wrote:
> > > On 11/10/2012 23:11, Steve de Mena wrote:
> > >
> > > > Although I rip in Lossless format myself
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Of course what you are ripping from a CD has already "lost". But
> > >
> > > naturally one does not want to lose more by using MP3 files, if
> > > one can
> > >
> > > help it.
> >
> > Are you suggesting that a secure EAC rip into lossles flac is
> > losing some part of the data ? That the result sounds differently
> > than the original given same quality playback system ?
> >
>
> What he is suggesting is that we need to spend $50,000 or more to hear
> good audio.

I didn't see such a suggestion. Where did het suggest so?

>
> Because he needs to justify all the money he has spent on
> his system and can't concede that a common iPod player containing
> lossless files can stand up as an audio input to his system.
>

You're mixing up "system" and "audio input".

Steve de Mena

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Oct 14, 2012, 8:29:22 AM10/14/12

to

What exactly are these "64bit files" that you work with in Adobe Audition?

32-bit float/192kHz is about the highest I have heard of, and the
highest I can do with my Pro Tools 10 HD Native system.

Checked my Adobe Audition CS6 system too, created new Audio FIle, and
highest I could go it 32-bit float/192000

I'm smelling something funny here....

Steve

Steve de Mena

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Oct 14, 2012, 8:31:38 AM10/14/12

to

On 10/11/12 4:52 PM, jrsnfld wrote:

> Maybe most do; but I know plenty of musicians who think the way I've
> described. When they're off, they take a break from music. Or they are
> uncomfortable listening in the manner that most of the rest of us do.
> It doesn't surprise me that it doesn't make sense to you, but I can
> tell you that is how they feel.
>
> --Jeff

I can tell you many that do have iPods. If they don't want to listen
to music period, than they're out of the scope of this discussion.

Steve

Steve de Mena

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Oct 14, 2012, 8:37:17 AM10/14/12

to

99.9% of the world have abandoned LPs and realize they are inferior to
the master sources they are made from. Don't make me out to be some
radical nut who thinks different than the rest. Most do share my
enthusiasms (such as online shopping. When I would walk into a
venerable "brick and mortar" record store here in Los Angeles like
Tower Classical Annex or Virgin Megastore on Sunset when it was still
good and I'd be the only customer on a Saturday night.... When they
closed I heard everyone moan abut how they missed those stores. )

Steve

Steve de Mena

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Oct 14, 2012, 8:39:55 AM10/14/12

to

Were they wrong? What are you leaving out of this iPad story? Did you
have an appointment at the Apple Store? I think I've waited maybe 15
minutes tops after my allotted appointment time to be helped.

Why is this Gerard guy still posting here after having to change his
email address 100 times to avoid filters. Luckily I have avoided his
posts for more than a year now.

Steve

Steve de Mena

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Oct 14, 2012, 8:41:40 AM10/14/12

to

On 10/12/12 10:44 AM, Norman Schwartz wrote:

> Well, using the same password and email address I provided to them, I felt
> myself obliged for us to go to one of the store's computers and log into my
> email account, thereby recovering my 'web mail', I didn't receive any
> apology from them because as everyone already knows all Apple devices are
> both user friendly and perfect.
>

Think you're leaving out parts of this story so that it fits what
sounds to be an anti-Apple bias...

Steve

Steve de Mena

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Oct 14, 2012, 8:45:06 AM10/14/12

to

Not unique to "computeratti". Go back to the brick and mortar LP and
CD stores. Everyone you talked to was a fucking expert on this
composer or that performer and your own opinions meant nothing. If you
didn't agree with some dude who thought Bruno Walter was god's gift to
Mozart, as an example, then there was something wrong with YOUR ears.

Steve

Steve de Mena

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Oct 14, 2012, 8:47:13 AM10/14/12

to

On 10/12/12 8:49 AM, J.Martin wrote:
> On Oct 11, 4:52 pm, Christopher Webber <zarzu...@zarzuela.invalid.net>
> wrote:
>> On 11/10/2012 23:42, J.Martin wrote:
>>
>>> I can understand it on at least one level: iPods and other portable
>>> devices have really changed the way people experience music, and in a
>>> way that's not at all positive for 'serious' musicians. More than the
>>> the walkman, or the portable CD player, the iPod turned music into
>>> wallpaper, as far as most people are concerned. I can understand
>>> thinking that's "not right."
>>
>> I think the Walkman did that about forty years ago - but otherwise
>> you're perfectly right!
>
> Certainly the walkman was similar. But the ability of the ipod to
> store so much music, and for it to play for hours and hours at a time
> without the user doing anything to select the content, took all of
> this to another level, I think. If you were going to get on the bus
> and listen to your walkman (and I certainly did that), you had to
> choose a tape. And generally, you had to listen to it all the way
> through. If you wanted other options, you had to bring other tapes,
> and you had to take the trouble to change tapes, rewind, etc. All of
> this made you at least a little bit more conscious of engaging in the
> act of listening to music. With the ipod, you don't do any choosing,
> and it'll play for hours without your paying the slightest attention
> to it.

Wow, that's terrible. The cassette method was superior
in.....uh.....hmmmmm... .exactly nothing.

Steve

Steve de Mena

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Oct 14, 2012, 8:49:12 AM10/14/12

to

That's great. I'm into whatever is the best experience for Steve. As
in me, not Steve Jobs. So I use a mix of technologies from Apple,
Microsoft and others. I could care less a company's business model
(which usually seems to be that making money is "evil"), if their
product works best for me.

Steve

Gerard

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Oct 14, 2012, 10:38:24 AM10/14/12

to

Steve de Mena <st...@demena.com> typed:

>

> I'm smelling something funny here....
>

Someone who is not like you?

Gerard

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Oct 14, 2012, 10:42:06 AM10/14/12

to

Steve de Mena <st...@demena.com> typed:

You're very much generalizing your experience with some stores.
Some people have enjoyed visiting other stores, without that ridiculous
scenario.

Gerard

unread,

Oct 14, 2012, 10:46:42 AM10/14/12

to

Steve de Mena <st...@demena.com> typed:
>

> Why is this Gerard guy still posting here

What stupid question is this? Do people have to ask for your permission to post
here?

> after having to change his
> email address 100 times to avoid filters. Luckily I have avoided his
> posts for more than a year now.
>

By not reading the ng.

Gerard

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Oct 14, 2012, 10:48:57 AM10/14/12

to

See?
He thinks that most people are exactly like he is, and the others are ...
idiots.

Norman Schwartz

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Oct 14, 2012, 11:49:47 AM10/14/12

to

"Steve de Mena" <st...@demena.com> wrote

"Were they wrong? What are you leaving out of this iPad story? Did you
have an appointment at the Apple Store? I think I've waited maybe 15

minutes tops after my allotted appointment time to be helped."

and in another post wrote:

"Think you're leaving out parts of this story so that it fits what

sounds to be an anti-Apple bias.)
____________________________________________________________________________________________

I think (and not leaving out any parts of this story) you are displaying a
pro-Apple bias.

As to the validity of my email account, of course they were wrong. I suppose
you didn't notice that I wrote that we turned around to the computer on the
table behind us (not being in use by anyone) and logged into my email
account.
When I walked into the store I was immediately asked what I needed. The gent
told me I was present during one of their slow times and I could be helped
immediately. In fact after the first representative failed attempting to
configure this iPad, he called over another individual, presumably his
supervisor (also standing around doing nothing, other than displaying folded
arms and a big smirk).

Somehow I think we are talking about two different things here. The 30
minutes I wrote about referred to the total time spent struggling to
configure this iPad (so I could recover my email on it), there was zero
waiting time for me to be seen and helped. At the end of those 30 minutes,
displaying annoyance with me, and my being a 'senior citizen', they gave me
a look as if to suggest I was senile with an imagined email account, and
told me OUTRIGHT that there is no such email account, "what is it we can do
for you". The thought of Clint Eastwood's suggestion to Obama, speaking to
the empty chair at RNC came to my mind, but obviously that would have
defeated the purpose of my being there.

I have no allegiance to a Window's System. Most probably if my introduction
to the Web came using a Mac, I'd be comfortably familiar with it, and I'd
prefer it.

Being an old dog, teaching me any new trick is hard to do, (I also prefer
using an actual keyboard over a touch screen). I must admit after witnessing
the difficulty experienced by Apple experts, I am soured on using my iPad.
Nonetheless, I intend 'putzing' around with it, and bought the $4 App, 'News
Tap', and perhaps sooner or later I'll be able to read and post to RMCR from
this iPad. (I'd bet on "later".)

> Steve
>

Steve de Mena

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Oct 14, 2012, 8:06:59 PM10/14/12

to

I'm not sure what the problem was. You seem to use optonline.net for
email which is not one of the standard ones. I typically google an
email provider and "pop3" and get the setup info, like here:
http://optimum.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/39/~/optimum-online%3A-email-settings---pop-and-smtp

I have no Apple bias, I use lots of things and am actively using a
Windows Phone 7.5 right now (Nokia Lumia 800) to see if I should make
a switch when Windows Phone 8 comes out.

Don't think it so bad you got in and out of an Apple Store in 30
minutes without a Genius bar appointment and paid nothing for it.

Steve

Mark S

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Oct 14, 2012, 8:16:47 PM10/14/12

to

On Oct 11, 3:31 am, Steve de Mena <st...@demena.com> wrote:
> On 10/11/12 1:07 AM, Oscar wrote:
>
> > Domingo: I tell you what, I refuse _completely_ to know that what I have been...over 40 years in the recording studios, live performances, EVERYTHING you have done in your life, it could be in just a little thing like that [holds up index finger and thumb]. You know, I don't think it's fair. (Some audience laughter but Domingo is dead serious) I like very much still the old 33 records, even 78's, and today, okay, the CD's. But the iPod [frowns]...I really feel (mumbles unintelligibly) WHY?! 40 years, just there. It's not right!'
>
> > BRAVO!!
>
> Bravo? I don't understand a statement saying "It's not right" when
> talking about the iPod. Downright stupid, if you ask me.
>
> Don't miss - EVER - the day I stopped listening to LPs and moved on to
> newer technologies.
>

> Steve

And on a related note, I like the way the "old" singers used to
sing...which means that I have almost no Placido Domingo recordings in
my collection.

Oscar

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Oct 14, 2012, 8:19:48 PM10/14/12

to

Why this is marked as abuse? It has been marked as abuse.

Report not abuse

From 'Getting Technical With...' column, BBC Music Magazine, Vol. 21 No. 1 (November 2012):

BBC Music Magazine: What kind of MP3 player do you use?

Stephen Hough: I've switched from Blackberry to iPhone, so now I'll have downloads on iTunes that I haven't had access to before. But generally, I prefer not to listen to a lot of music when I'm on the move; I think it's more important to have silence so that when music appears, it's actually something special.

BBC MM: We hear you're a fan of the CD. Isn't it time to swap CD's for downloads?

Hough: I'm waiting for the ideal situation to have all my music in a virtual place. When iPods become large enough, then I may look at converting my entire CD library to downloads. In the meantime, there is a permanence about classical music, something precious about it that makes me want to be able literally to hold on to it.

BBC MM: But isn't it easier to choose music from an iTunes playlist, rather than searching through discs?

Hough: Yes, but you can get to the point where you have too much choice. If I had every piece of classical music ever written available at the touch of the button, then I would become so weary of it I would probably never want to listen to it again.

// I hope Steve de Mena doesn't have a conniption reading this!! :-)

Mark S

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Oct 14, 2012, 8:21:30 PM10/14/12

to

On Oct 11, 9:59 am, jrsnfld <jrsn...@aol.com> wrote:

> You have to remember that Domingo is a musician--it is his livelihood,
> it is his obsession. By nature he has to be a perfectionist about it
> or he wouldn't have gotten to be who he is.

If Domingo was a perfectionist as a singer, he would have learned how
to better sing his high notes when he was singing tenor. He would have
learned how to sing a true voix mixte. He might have also worked on
his German pronunciation a lot, and on his French a bit more.

If he was a perfectionist as a musician, he would have foregone the
conducting career sideline, where he is most definitely no better than
a C- or D-level talent.

And, he might have kept out of opera administration as well, rather
than running up the debt at every company he ever led.

Oscar

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Oct 14, 2012, 9:17:15 PM10/14/12

to

Why this is marked as abuse? It has been marked as abuse.

Report not abuse

On Sunday, October 14, 2012 5:21:30 PM, Mark S wrote:
>
> If Domingo was a perfectionist as a singer, he would have learned how
> to better sing his high notes when he was singing tenor. He would have
> learned how to sing a true voix mixte. He might have also worked on
> his German pronunciation a lot, and on his French a bit more.
>
> If he was a perfectionist as a musician, he would have foregone the
> conducting career sideline, where he is most definitely no better than
> a C- or D-level talent.
>
> And, he might have kept out of opera administration as well, rather
> than running up the debt at every company he ever led.

You forgot 'And, Plácido Domingo does not live in Aliso Viejo, California.'

Art

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Oct 15, 2012, 12:16:56 AM10/15/12

to

On Sun, 14 Oct 2012 17:19:48 -0700 (PDT), Oscar
<oscaredwar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hough: Yes, but you can get to the point where you have too much

choice. If=

> I had every piece of classical music ever written available at the

touch o=

> f the button, then I would become so weary of it I would probably

never wan=

> t to listen to it again.

^^^This is the part that touched me the most. I find staring at a
screen full of song titles to be a wearying experience. One nice
thing about looking at a crammed CD rack is that occasionally I'll
find a CD that I forgot that I owned and then I'll play that.
I do agree that we have too much choice these days and the biproduct
is boredom. I barely even watch TV anymore because there are too many
channels with too much low quality programming.

Gerard

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Oct 15, 2012, 6:56:56 AM10/15/12

to

Art <maleune...@yahoo.com> typed:

> On Sun, 14 Oct 2012 17:19:48 -0700 (PDT), Oscar
> <oscaredwar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hough: Yes, but you can get to the point where you have too much
> > choice. If= I had every piece of classical music ever written
> > available at the touch o= f the button, then I would become so
> > weary of it I would probably never wan= t to listen to it again.
>
> ^^^This is the part that touched me the most. I find staring at a
> screen full of song titles to be a wearying experience. One nice
> thing about looking at a crammed CD rack is that occasionally I'll
> find a CD that I forgot that I owned and then I'll play that.
> I do agree that we have too much choice these days and the biproduct
> is boredom.

Right. The overdosis is killing.
(Yet some people order 80-discs-boxes daily.)

Steve de Mena

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Oct 15, 2012, 6:18:15 PM10/15/12

to

Doesn't sound like he is really anti iPod.

Steve

Steve de Mena

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Oct 15, 2012, 6:21:08 PM10/15/12

to

I'd spend so much time trying to find a CD I was often no longer
interested in listening to it by the time I found it. The other day I
pulled down the PDF of the Ravel Pavane for a Dead Princess orch score
and it was great to compare a dozen or so performances without
searching for CDs. (Haitink/RCO & Ozawa/BSO two favorites)

I can easily find CD's "I forgot I owned" by "staring at [my] screen".
No difference, is there?

Steve

Paul Penna

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Oct 15, 2012, 7:33:48 PM10/15/12

to

In article <WqydnTNszZXLEeHN...@giganews.com>,

When I use my "not recently played" playlist on either my iPod or via
iTunes, it not only finds things I might have forgotten I had, it goes
ahead and plays them.

Art

unread,

Oct 16, 2012, 12:37:28 AM10/16/12

to

On Mon, 15 Oct 2012 15:21:08 -0700, Steve de Mena <st...@demena.com>
wrote:

> I can easily find CD's "I forgot I owned" by "staring at [my]
screen".
> No difference, is there?

All the difference to me. I spend enough time looking into screens.
I'm glad that when it's time to listen to music there are no screens
involved(except the LED display on my CD player).
Having everything on a hard drive is more convenient, no doubt, but
sometimes convenience is overrated. Like the time my dear grandmother
tried to make a Thanksgiving turkey in the microwave. She never did
that again. God rest her soul.

Gerard

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Oct 16, 2012, 4:36:09 AM10/16/12

to

Steve de Mena <st...@demena.com> typed:

Oh, there is sooo much difference between staring at a screen and having
something at hand without the need of a computer.

dshs...@gmail.com

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Oct 18, 2012, 4:24:47 PM10/18/12

to

On Friday, October 12, 2012 7:40:31 PM UTC-4, Christopher Webber wrote:
> On 12/10/2012 21:06, George wrote:
>
> > Are you suggesting that a secure EAC rip into lossles flac is losing some part of the data ? That the result sounds differently than the original given same quality playback system ?
>
>
>
> No. I'm reminding us all that the "Red Book" format for CD is
>
> two-channel, 16-bit encoding at a 44.1 kHz sampling rate per channel.
>
> Even in my own, amateur editing (with Adobe Audition) I tend to work on
>
> 64-bit files with a much higher sampling rate, for increased control and
>
> accuracy. If my digital source material is not CD to start with, which
>
> of course it normally isn't, there's a loss once the results are put
>
> onto CD.

Sorry, I thought that you are referring to a better sound from portable CD player versus lossles flac on a decent portable. BTW, you can enjoy the 24/96 and what not on some portables, can't on a redbook.

dshs...@gmail.com

unread,

Oct 18, 2012, 4:39:56 PM10/18/12

to

On Monday, October 15, 2012 12:17:47 AM UTC-4, Art wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Oct 2012 17:19:48 -0700 (PDT), Oscar
>
> <
>

> > Hough: Yes, but you can get to the point where you have too much
>
> choice. If=
>
> > I had every piece of classical music ever written available at the
>
> touch o=
>
> > f the button, then I would become so weary of it I would probably
>
> never wan=
>
> > t to listen to it again.
>
>
>
> ^^^This is the part that touched me the most. I find staring at a
>
> screen full of song titles to be a wearying experience. One nice
>
> thing about looking at a crammed CD rack is that occasionally I'll
>
> find a CD that I forgot that I owned and then I'll play that.
>
> I do agree that we have too much choice these days and the biproduct
>
> is boredom. I barely even watch TV anymore because there are too many
>
> channels with too much low quality programming.

There is as simple answer to the "songs" mess that people have. Directory structure, Tag carefully and use a music server. Search functions in abundance, by artist, by album, by whatever your fancy is.

Oscar

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Oct 18, 2012, 5:45:22 PM10/18/12

to

Why this is marked as abuse? It has been marked as abuse.

Report not abuse

On Thursday, October 18, 2012 1:39:56 PM, dshs...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> There is as simple answer to the "songs" mess that people have.
> Directory structure, Tag carefully and use a music server. Search
> functions in abundance, by artist, by album, by whatever your fancy
> is.

This is true. But tagging classical music can be very time-consuming. I have gotten rid of 75% of my non-classical CD's over the last three or so years, but the classical ones I keep around 'cos I don't feel like 'dealing' with the re-tagging. Very slowly, a few titles a week max, I upload to the hard drive. It is nice to have it all on the HD, I must say: search, serendipity, etc. Having artwork makes it more 'fun', too.

Steve de Mena

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Oct 18, 2012, 11:33:25 PM10/18/12

to

On 10/18/12 1:24 PM, dshs...@gmail.com wrote:

>> No. I'm reminding us all that the "Red Book" format for CD is
>>
>> two-channel, 16-bit encoding at a 44.1 kHz sampling rate per channel.
>>
>> Even in my own, amateur editing (with Adobe Audition) I tend to work on
>>
>> 64-bit files with a much higher sampling rate, for increased control and
>>
>> accuracy. If my digital source material is not CD to start with, which
>>
>> of course it normally isn't, there's a loss once the results are put
>>
>> onto CD.
>
> Sorry, I thought that you are referring to a better sound from portable CD player versus lossles flac on a decent portable. BTW, you can enjoy the 24/96 and what not on some portables, can't on a redbook.
>

We have no idea what he was referring to, as he talks about fictitious
"64-bit" files that he "tends to work with".

Steve

Steve de Mena

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Oct 18, 2012, 11:34:49 PM10/18/12

to

That's why I rip my entire collection, with impeccable ID3 tags....

Directory structure isn't all that critical to me.

Steve

Steve de Mena

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Oct 18, 2012, 11:36:06 PM10/18/12

to

It's a bitch, but I do it while doing other things, like watching TV,
and do it on 3-4 PCs simultaneously.

Steve

Art

unread,

Oct 19, 2012, 10:19:45 AM10/19/12

to

I have thousands of "songs" on my hard drive but these are only for
portable listening mainly on my phone or tablet. When I want to sit
down and listen "seriously" I'll stick with the spinning plastic
disc.

Steve de Mena

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Oct 19, 2012, 7:10:40 PM10/19/12

to

I assume that is because you don't have your computer hooked up to
your home stereo and/or the "songs" on your hard drive are not ripped
in lossless quality?

Steve

John Hood

unread,

Oct 19, 2012, 9:09:53 PM10/19/12

to

"Steve de Mena" <st...@demena.com> wrote in message
news:jeWdnb11JrFtQBzN...@giganews.com...

I have a problem. I can't hear the difference between lossless and
moderately lo-fi MP3s. What's a man to do? Are there medications I can take?

I'm quite happy in my lo fi world, I can get 6-8 albums onto a CD. I must
confess that I use an old valve amplifier and reasonable speakers but I'm
sure that would not convince a lot of people around here. So much talk of
lossless.

JH