Cliburn jury
Rugby
Marcello Abbado*
Dmitri Alexeev
Michel Beroff
Hung-Kuan Chen*
Richard Dyer*
John Giordano, Chairman*
Joseph Kalichstein
Yoheved Kaplinsky*
Jürgen Meyer-Josten
Menahem Pressler
Tadeusz Strugala
Regards, Rugby
Rugby
And the competitors:
www.cliburn.org/index.php?page=cliburn_current_comp
Rugby
HvT
"Rugby" <steve...@gmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:14809b95-dd41-4559...@g19g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...
|And the competitors:
|www.cliburn.org/index.php?page=cliburn_current_comp
|Rugby
I did hear Beus and Rashkovsky (a student of Virsaladze). Is there
someone else I should follow during the competition?
Henk
td
I disagree.
There is not a single MAJOR artist on this jury. Pressler is gaga.
Beroff is washed out. Kalichstein is a minor pianist. Ditto Alexeev.
Sorry, this is a tawdry assembly of has-beens selected for highly
political reasons. Koplinsky was on the pre-screening jury and
selected two of her own students from among the hundreds auditioned.
The Chinese jury member was selected to bring in the Shanghai crowd.
Yuk.
TD
CharlesSmith
I'd also be interested to know your assessment of the Leeds jury (a
young friend of mine is a competitor). See:
http://www.leedspiano.com/Home/The_2009_Competition/Jury.aspx
Rugby
>
> I did hear Beus and Rashkovsky (a student of Virsaladze). Is there
> someone else I should follow during the competition?
>
Kunz is a BBC " New Generation" artist I heard once on BBC R3, as I
also heard Dank there. Was impressed both times, but am skeptical of
the Cliburn. The last QEB had some interesting artists; maybe the
Cliburn this time; and there will apparently be almost full coverage
including Web TV.
Rugby
Rugby
> I'd also be interested to know your assessment of the Leeds jury (a
> young friend of mine is a competitor). See:http://www.leedspiano.com/Home/The_2009_Competition/Jury.aspx
Beroff and Pressler there----again.
Rugby
td
There's Pressler, again. Ho hum!
And Beroff also. Guess he isn't playing much anymore. Was deep into
drugs for a long time.
The rest look like third rung players/teachers.
Where is Argerich? Zimerman? Feire? Perahia? Brendel? Sokolov? et al.
Without the top rung players in these competitions, what we get are
second rung opinions.
Just look at THIS jury and weep.
Arthur Rubinstein,
Guido Agosti (Italy),
Enrique Barenboim (Israel),
Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli (Italy),
Jacques Fevrier (France),
Henri Gagnebin (Switzerland),
Eugene Istomin (U.S.A.),
Mindru Katz (Israel), I
rving Kolodin (U.S.A.),
Pnina Salzman (Israel),
Michal Smoira-Cohn (Israel),
Alexander Tansman (France),
Dieter Weber (Austria)
This was the jury for the first Artur Rubinstein Competition in 1974.
ANY young pianist would have been thrilled to play for such a group of
musicians.
Frankly, I think the top rung pianists have sort of given up on
competitions these days and refuse. That said, I do know that Nelson
Freire will be on the jury in Warsaw in October 2010. Of course there
will be the usual contingent of Polish teachers, but they are smart to
invite an active top rank pianist. Warsaw is very special, I have to
add.
TD
noauth
lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!
what a dunce!!!!!!!
tommy wipe the shite off yer face!!!!!
Mort
td
It's already oozing out of your asshole.
What a wipe!
TD
O
<1a7c382b-8b77-40d2...@e24g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>, td
<tomde...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> Frankly, I think the top rung pianists have sort of given up on
> competitions these days and refuse.
That might be a good thing. It's not like competitions have produced
ranks of top-flight pianists.
-Owen
Bob Lombard
? Have competitions ever *produced* top-flight pianists? The
competitions used to be an avenue for top-flight-but-unknown pianists to
get a recording deal. Is that path open now?
bl
Rugby
> Not too bad, TD :
Van Cliburn's 1958 Tchaikovsky jury :
Emile Gilels (president), Dmitry Kabalevsky, Henrich Neihaus, Leo
Oborin, Svyatoslav Richter, Pavel Serebryakov (USSR), Sir Arthur Bliss
(Great Britain), Pancho Vladigerov (Bulgaria), Camargo Guarnieri
(Brazil), George Georgiesku (Roumania), Fernand Kine (Belgium), J.
Sequeira-Costa (Portugal), F. Maksian (Czechoslovakia), Layosh Hernady
(Hungary), Carlo Zecchi (Italy), G. Shtompka (Poland).
Now that was a jury !! Adds stature to Cliburn's win.
Regards, Rugby
Matthew�B.�Tepper
letters to be typed in news:f31ef818-6b7a-48aa-8d68-1e09236f05a6
@t10g2000vbg.googlegroups.com:
> On May 15, 6:28 pm, Rugby <steveha...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Van Cliburn's 1958 Tchaikovsky jury :
>>
>> Emile Gilels (president), Dmitry Kabalevsky, Henrich Neihaus, Leo
>> Oborin, Svyatoslav Richter, Pavel Serebryakov (USSR), Sir Arthur Bliss
>> (Great Britain), Pancho Vladigerov (Bulgaria), Camargo Guarnieri
>> (Brazil), George Georgiesku (Roumania), Fernand Kine (Belgium), J.
>> Sequeira-Costa (Portugal), F. Maksian (Czechoslovakia), Layosh Hernady
>> (Hungary), Carlo Zecchi (Italy), G. Shtompka (Poland).
>>
>> Now that was a jury !! Adds stature to Cliburn's win.
>>
>> Regards, Rugby
>
> Vladigerov! Just today I was listening to some of his piano music
> thanks to a friend. It intrigued me, it's good stuff.
I'm curious about Pancho Vladigerov's music. Please recommend some for me.
(And wouldn't it be cool to listen to it as streamed via a Cisco router?)
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers
LaVirtuosa
> On May 14, 6:29�pm, Rugby <steveha...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Not too bad, TD :
>
> > Marcello Abbado*
>
> > Dmitri Alexeev
>
> > Michel Beroff
>
> > Hung-Kuan Chen*
>
> > Richard Dyer*
>
> > John Giordano, Chairman*
>
> > Joseph Kalichstein
>
> > Yoheved Kaplinsky*
>
>
> > Menahem Pressler
>
> > Tadeusz Strugala
>
> I disagree.
>
> There is not a single MAJOR artist on this jury. Pressler is gaga.
> Beroff is washed out. Kalichstein is a minor pianist. Ditto Alexeev.
>
> Sorry, this is a tawdry assembly of has-beens selected for highly
> political reasons. Koplinsky was on the pre-screening jury and
> selected two of her own students from among the hundreds auditioned.
> The Chinese jury member was selected to bring in the Shanghai crowd.
>
> Yuk.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
I've had the experience of disagreeing with a small piano jury. I let
that disagreement
show to one of the judges at a gathering without literally saying it
outright but through subtle comment while talking with him privately
off to the side. He was clearly case closed on it.
A masher won over a true artist. A good banger with no depth of
thought or significant heart got to win. Well, the judges think that
the banger will make money and the artist won't be understood by the
masses. All they have to do is play loudly, clearly, and not make
fatal mistakes.
**********Val
td
> In article
> <1a7c382b-8b77-40d2-b850-7c3f01503...@e24g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>, td
>
> <tomdedea...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> > Frankly, I think the top rung pianists have sort of given up on
> > competitions these days and refuse.
>
> That might be a good thing. It's not like competitions have produced
> ranks of top-flight pianists.
Hmmmmmmmmmmm.
Radu Lupu (Cliburn and Leeds)
Ashkenazy (Chopin, QEB, Tchaikovsky)
Pollini (Chopin)
Argerich (Chopin)
Pogorelich (Montreal)
And so on.
You're quite wrong. Thing is that there are now too many competitions
and not enough great pianists willing to serve on juries.
TD
her...@yahoo.com
>
> Where is Argerich? Zimerman? Feire? Perahia? Brendel? Sokolov? et al.
>
> Without the top rung players in these competitions, what we get are
> second rung opinions.
>
Perhaps first rate musicians prefer to study and perform, rather than
spend their days on competition panels?
And the notion that not-world-famous pianists have less judgment in
these matters is, to put it mildly, spurious.
td
> On 15 mai, 17:11, td <tomdedea...@mac.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Where is Argerich? Zimerman? Feire? Perahia? Brendel? Sokolov? et al.
>
> > Without the top rung players in these competitions, what we get are
> > second rung opinions.
>
> Perhaps first rate musicians prefer to study and perform, rather than
> spend their days on competition panels?
But of course. And I agree, of course.
> And the notion that not-world-famous pianists have less judgment in
> these matters is, to put it mildly, spurious.
Wrong.
Not "spurious" at all. Quite relevant. Nobody said they had "less
judgment", just that their judgment was less valuable, particularly to
the candidates.
The best young pianists WANT to play for great pianists, not so-so
pianists.
If you had the opportunity to play for either Martha Argerich or Ian
Hobson, which would YOU pick?
TD
TD
her...@yahoo.com
>
> If you had the opportunity to play for either Martha Argerich or Ian
> Hobson, which would YOU pick?
>
> TD
>
I am not a pianist, however it has been my experience that most first-
rate, or 'great' artists are 95% interested in themselves (and who can
blame them), while slightly less stellar figures have just a little
more interest in what's going on out there.
I'm not quite sure what's going on in the mind of a person involved
in piano competitions, but if "playing for the stars" is a major part
of it, I pity the poor soul.
Herman
td
It isn't a "star" they want to play for. They want to play for the
greatest exponents of their art.
If you're an artist, you wnat your paintings seen by Picasso. If
you're a sculptor, Henry Moore. If a pianist, Artur Rubinstein. Such
artists are "open" to art, not closed to it. Nobody wants their work
judged by a teacher, who likes to follow rules.
TD
her...@yahoo.com
Well, you seem to know everything that's going on in an artist's mind.
I would however humbly suggest that Picasso is not just dead, but
while he was alive he was not much interested in what younger
generations of artists produced. He was too busy being Picasso. Some
great artists are very generous in this respect, others are only
interested in creating and nurturing a corps of minor artists who will
speak well of them when they're gone. And for the rest they're only
interested in what feeds their own creative work, and rightly so.
That's my experience.
Herman
LaVirtuosa
>
> - Show quoted text -
This might please both sides:
How about a distinguished pianist who, for physical reasons, can no
longer play?
Or one whose memory is failing and is afraid to play in public?
Or a pianist who wants different and interesting things to do?
Or a pianist who, though still great, enjoys keeping the flame?
td
> On 16 mai, 15:29, td <tomdedea...@mac.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On May 16, 9:21 am, her...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > > On 16 mai, 15:12, td <tomdedea...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> > > > If you had the opportunity to play for either Martha Argerich or Ian
> > > > Hobson, which would YOU pick?
>
> > > > TD
>
> > > I am not a pianist, however it has been my experience that most first-
> > > rate, or 'great' artists are 95% interested in themselves (and who can
> > > blame them), while slightly less stellar figures have just a little
> > > more interest in what's going on out there.
>
> > > I'm not quite sure what's going on in the mind of a person involved
> > > in piano competitions, but if "playing for the stars" is a major part
> > > of it, I pity the poor soul.
>
> > It isn't a "star" they want to play for. They want to play for the
> > greatest exponents of their art.
>
> > If you're an artist, you wnat your paintings seen by Picasso. If
> > you're a sculptor, Henry Moore. If a pianist, Artur Rubinstein. Such
> > artists are "open" to art, not closed to it. Nobody wants their work
> > judged by a teacher, who likes to follow rules.
>
> > TD
>
> Well, you seem to know everything that's going on in an artist's mind.
Not so. But I do know a lot of artists and know that my comments
represent their opinions accurately.
> I would however humbly suggest that Picasso is not just dead, but
> while he was alive he was not much interested in what younger
> generations of artists produced. He was too busy being Picasso. Some
> great artists are very generous in this respect, others are only
> interested in creating and nurturing a corps of minor artists who will
> speak well of them when they're gone. And for the rest they're only
> interested in what feeds their own creative work, and rightly so.
> That's my experience.
And it is accurate. However, the names were provided only as examples,
not as inidications that any artist mentioned would have been willing
to give an opinion.
It would seem that constipation is spreading from one thread to
another in the forum today. Like the swine flu?
TD
td
i can think of a number of those. Earl Wild comes to mind immediately
but he is highly restricted as to travel. But his ears are still as
keen as ever.
> Or one whose memory is failing and is afraid to play in public?
Steven Kovacevich? But he still manages to play fairly often, I think.
Not sure if he has ever served on a jury, however. Probably hates
competitions, as he has surely been asked to do so.
> Or a pianist who wants different and interesting things to do?
That would cover most of them.
> Or a pianist who, though still great, enjoys keeping the flame?
What do you mean here?
TD
laraine
Many of the members of that Cliburn jury are or
have been performers rather than teachers, though.
In any case, isn't it part of the philosophy of this
newsgroup that one doesn't even have to play or
play well to be a good judge... (I'm a bit skeptical
of that myself, but I see the point.)
C.
O
<1e3ca754-f986-4e29...@g20g2000vba.googlegroups.com>, td
<tomde...@mac.com> wrote:
> On May 15, 6:19�pm, O <ow...@denofinequityx.com> wrote:
> > In article
> > <1a7c382b-8b77-40d2-b850-7c3f01503...@e24g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>, td
> >
> > <tomdedea...@mac.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Frankly, I think the top rung pianists have sort of given up on
> > > competitions these days and refuse.
> >
> > That might be a good thing. �It's not like competitions have produced
> > ranks of top-flight pianists.
>
> Hmmmmmmmmmmm.
>
> Radu Lupu (Cliburn and Leeds)
All the years of the Cliburn, and you can only point to one? Random
chance would give them a successful winner every 20 years or so. And
all those other winners got recording contracts that came to naught?
>
> Ashkenazy (Chopin, QEB, Tchaikovsky)
>
> Pollini (Chopin)
>
> Argerich (Chopin)
>
> Pogorelich (Montreal)
>
> And so on.
>
> You're quite wrong. Thing is that there are now too many competitions
> and not enough great pianists willing to serve on juries.
Maybe it's because the current crop of pianist is more competition
oriented and that doesn't turn out "great pianists?"
-Owen
number_six
>
> - Show quoted text -
Would more people perceive this difference if more performances were
in smaller halls? The artistic world and the economic world are
always intertwined...
number_six
>
> - Show quoted text -
Very worthy suggestions. If I were picking a competition jury, I
would craft some instructions for them as a judge instructs a trial
jury. Let them confer, exchange ideas, and deliberate, *before*
voting or becoming too conclusory about it.
O
<589b4185-363f-46f7...@l32g2000vba.googlegroups.com>, td
<tomde...@mac.com> wrote:
It used to be like this -- aspiring pianists would want to play before
Rubenstein, or Paderewski, in the hopes of being a protege of the
artist, and clinging to his coattails to help pull him up through the
music world. (Somehow Byron Janis comes to mind.)
The competition system was sort of designed against that process. You
no longer had to toady to a "great artist" to be recognized. You'd get
exposure, a recording contract, and a judgement by a recognized
knowledgeable panel.
But the competition has its faults: The failure of competition winners
to capture the general public, the internal politics and preferential
treatments for former students and others, and adding a sporting
metaphor, where there are winners and losers. While there are certainly
better pianists than others, it would probably be often difficult to
differentiate between the top 5 finalists. Who was the better pianist,
Horowitz or Rubenstien, and why should we care? Can't we enjoy them
both?
Tom, it sounds like you want the olden day Royalty system back, by
stuffing the panel with stellar talents - but I think there's a problem
with that: If Horowitz was a single judge in a piano competition, the
winner would be the one that sounded most like Horowitz (listen to the
young Byron Janis).
-Owen
-Owen
HvT
"laraine" <lara...@gmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:d5bedf97-ee41-43a7...@f16g2000vbf.googlegroups.com...
|Many of the members of that Cliburn jury are or
|have been performers rather than teachers, though.
|In any case, isn't it part of the philosophy of this
|newsgroup that one doesn't even have to play or
|play well to be a good judge... (I'm a bit skeptical
|of that myself, but I see the point.)
In the end the audience judges - and the audience doesn't have to play,
let alone play well. There is a vast difference between the taste of a
teacher and the taste of the audience. Performers, in particular those
with an international career, know their audiences (read Rubinstein's
autobiography: it's not about music but about pleasing audiences - even
by playing contemporary music).
Henk
laraine
> "laraine" <larai...@gmail.com> schreef in berichtnews:d5bedf97-ee41-43a7...@f16g2000vbf.googlegroups.com...
>
> |Many of the members of that Cliburn jury are or
> |have been performers rather than teachers, though.
>
Actually, I should have said most of them were
performers first, and then teachers later.
> |In any case, isn't it part of the philosophy of this
> |newsgroup that one doesn't even have to play or
> |play well to be a good judge... (I'm a bit skeptical
> |of that myself, but I see the point.)
>
> In the end the audience judges - and the audience doesn't have to play,
> let alone play well. There is a vast difference between the taste of a
> teacher and the taste of the audience. Performers, in particular those
> with an international career, know their audiences (read Rubinstein's
> autobiography: it's not about music but about pleasing audiences - even
> by playing contemporary music).
>
> Henk
But if you win or get a top prize (guess that's the phrase
used for placing) in a major competition, you've gotten
some name recognition anyway.
It looks like they're going to let the audience do some
online voting, though I doubt if it will officially count. I
would think that would be distracting to the performer.
C.
td
>
>
>
> <tomdedea...@mac.com> wrote:
> > On May 15, 6:19 pm, O <ow...@denofinequityx.com> wrote:
> > > In article
> > > <1a7c382b-8b77-40d2-b850-7c3f01503...@e24g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>, td
>
> > > <tomdedea...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Frankly, I think the top rung pianists have sort of given up on
> > > > competitions these days and refuse.
>
> > > That might be a good thing. It's not like competitions have produced
> > > ranks of top-flight pianists.
>
> > Hmmmmmmmmmmm.
>
> > Radu Lupu (Cliburn and Leeds)
>
> All the years of the Cliburn, and you can only point to one? Random
> chance would give them a successful winner every 20 years or so. And
> all those other winners got recording contracts that came to naught?
First of all, you said "competitions", not the Cliburn Competition
specifically.
Vladimir Viardo was a fabulous player who was single-handedly
prevented from having a career by Madame Furtseva.
Other Cliburn winners have been Steven de Groote, who died of injuries
suffered after his private plane crashed in the desert. He was a
pianist of tremendous potential. As was Sultanov, who died of multiple
strokes.
Indeed the Cliburn has almost been cursed by such extraneous
circumstances.
TD
td
Such consultation is usually utterly forbidden.
TD
td
You sell VH short.
He adored hearing young pianists and managed to do so. Even Murray
Perahia, for example.
TD
number_six
>
> - Show quoted text -
Understood. But I think it would be interesting to see different
competitions try a different dynamic in the judging.
I certainly wouldn't want them to comport themselves like ice skating
judges, though!
graham
"O" <ow...@denofinequityx.com> wrote in message
news:160520091240379190%ow...@denofinequityx.com...
> In article
> <1e3ca754-f986-4e29...@g20g2000vba.googlegroups.com>, td
> <tomde...@mac.com> wrote:
>
>> On May 15, 6:19 pm, O <ow...@denofinequityx.com> wrote:
>> > In article
>> > <1a7c382b-8b77-40d2-b850-7c3f01503...@e24g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>, td
>> >
>> > <tomdedea...@mac.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Frankly, I think the top rung pianists have sort of given up on
>> > > competitions these days and refuse.
>> >
>> > That might be a good thing. It's not like competitions have produced
>> > ranks of top-flight pianists.
>>
>> Hmmmmmmmmmmm.
>>
>> Radu Lupu (Cliburn and Leeds)
>
>
> All the years of the Cliburn, and you can only point to one? Random
> chance would give them a successful winner every 20 years or so. And
> all those other winners got recording contracts that came to naught?
>
rooting for some local non-entity but two "international" judges kicked a
fuss and talked them into awarding him first place.
Graham
td
> "O" <ow...@denofinequityx.com> wrote in message
>
> news:160520091240379190%ow...@denofinequityx.com...
>
> > In article
> > <tomdedea...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> >> On May 15, 6:19 pm, O <ow...@denofinequityx.com> wrote:
> >> > In article
> >> > <1a7c382b-8b77-40d2-b850-7c3f01503...@e24g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>, td
>
> >> > <tomdedea...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> >> > > Frankly, I think the top rung pianists have sort of given up on
> >> > > competitions these days and refuse.
>
> >> > That might be a good thing. It's not like competitions have produced
> >> > ranks of top-flight pianists.
>
> >> Hmmmmmmmmmmm.
>
> >> Radu Lupu (Cliburn and Leeds)
>
> > All the years of the Cliburn, and you can only point to one? Random
> > chance would give them a successful winner every 20 years or so. And
> > all those other winners got recording contracts that came to naught?
>
> Apparently, RL only just made it at the Cliburn. Most of the panel were
> rooting for some local non-entity but two "international" judges kicked a
> fuss and talked them into awarding him first place.
It is always advisable not to believe idle gossip.
What IS true, however, is that Lupu will have absolutely nothing to do
with any of the Cliburn crew today. Nothing at all.
TD
graham
"td" <tomde...@mac.com> wrote in message
news:878bca46-4a84-49b2...@o20g2000vbh.googlegroups.com...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree! However, this was from Gerald Moore's account of the proceedings
in his autobiography and he was on the jury.
Graham
Rugby
> On May 15, 6:19 pm, O <ow...@denofinequityx.com> wrote:
The late Cliburn winner
Stephen DeGroote, in Joseph Horowitz' "Ivory Trade", pp.87-88, was
also
concerned, even in 1990:
"The fact is we're all becoming smaller
and smaller because there are too many of us.We've reached a
point of saturation...Horszowski told me that the golden age of
virtuosos touring the world was over.The world is going to
become a place where musicians establish themselves locally
and function locally, he said. And I believe he was right.I can
think of so many who emerged since I won the Cliburn in 1977
and who are fading at about the same rate as I did....The urge to
be popular and the urge to exist with integrity are opposing
forces..."
Regards, Rugby
Bob Lombard
> X-No-Archive: yes
>
> This discussion strikes me as very old-fashioned. It stinks of
> "celebrity" and celebrity-seeking, of groupyism. Fuck celebrity, fuck
> "success". It's about quality, not celebrity or success. Pollini is
> far better known than Sergio Perticaroli... but Perticaroli kicks ass
> nevertheless. Many artists are "known" yet there are others who are
> better artists. And there is also the implicit assumption that
> greatness equals recording a lot for major companies. Not true. As I
> said, very old-fashioned thinking. Musicians should be judged by using
> the ears, not celebrity meters. Some of the people who seek a little
> celebrity ruboff on themselves have proven to be totally unreliable
> when it comes to using their ears. For example, the Hatto case. I
> think such people should shut up, since they have no credibility.
> "Alfred Brendel told me, yadda yadda yadda". Fuck all that. Brendel
> stands or falls when you listen to his performances. Anything else is
> superfluous, mere gossip, little stuff, meaningless musically.
>
> These old-fashioned celebrity seekers by proxy are not really useful
> in this group.
>
> wk
Maybe not 'useful', but frequently entertaining. Just because Ludwig
Hoffmann, and Robert Hagopian, and Eugene Moyse, and Jonathan Woods
slipped by under their radar doesn't make them 'bad people'.
:)
bl
td
> X-No-Archive: yes
>
> This discussion strikes me as very old-fashioned. It stinks of
> "celebrity" and celebrity-seeking, of groupyism. Fuck celebrity, fuck
> "success". It's about quality, not celebrity or success. Pollini is
> far better known than Sergio Perticaroli... but Perticaroli kicks ass
> nevertheless. Many artists are "known" yet there are others who are
> better artists. And there is also the implicit assumption that
> greatness equals recording a lot for major companies. Not true. As I
> said, very old-fashioned thinking. Musicians should be judged by using
> the ears, not celebrity meters. Some of the people who seek a little
> celebrity ruboff on themselves have proven to be totally unreliable
> when it comes to using their ears. For example, the Hatto case. I
> think such people should shut up, since they have no credibility.
> "Alfred Brendel told me, yadda yadda yadda". Fuck all that. Brendel
> stands or falls when you listen to his performances. Anything else is
> superfluous, mere gossip, little stuff, meaningless musically.
>
> These old-fashioned celebrity seekers by proxy are not really useful
> in this group.
Hmmmmm.
You speak for the group, do you?
TD
td
They didn't Bob.
TD
Recovered Reviewer
Recovered Reviewer
> You speak for the group, do you?
Well, Mr. Deacon, sar, 'an it please you
Whosis is One of The Anointed,
while lately you are relegated to
merely one of the shat-upon.
--
John Wiser
Jicotea Used Books
Howells NY 10932 0136 USA
cee...@gmail.com
http://www.amazon.com/shops/ceeclef
td
wrote:
> "td" <tomdedea...@mac.com> wrote:
> >> On May 16, 5:48 pm, Whosis Kid
> >> wrote: [ne-ver mind!]
> > You speak for the group, do you?
>
> Well, Mr. Deacon, sar, 'an it please you
> Whosis is One of The Anointed,
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
> while lately you are relegated to
> merely one of the shat-upon.
That'll be the day. In your dreams!!!
Back to your pig pen.
TD
O
<d6f19647-f6cb-420d...@g19g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>, td
<tomde...@mac.com> wrote:
> On May 16, 12:40�pm, O <ow...@denofinequityx.com> wrote:
> > In article
> > <1e3ca754-f986-4e29-a04b-28c40c3a6...@g20g2000vba.googlegroups.com>, td
> >
> >
> >
> > <tomdedea...@mac.com> wrote:
> > > On May 15, 6:19�pm, O <ow...@denofinequityx.com> wrote:
> > > > In article
> > > > <1a7c382b-8b77-40d2-b850-7c3f01503...@e24g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>, td
> >
> > > > <tomdedea...@mac.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > > Frankly, I think the top rung pianists have sort of given up on
> > > > > competitions these days and refuse.
> >
> > > > That might be a good thing. �It's not like competitions have produced
> > > > ranks of top-flight pianists.
> >
> > > Hmmmmmmmmmmm.
> >
> > > Radu Lupu (Cliburn and Leeds)
> >
> > All the years of the Cliburn, and you can only point to one? �Random
> > chance would give them a successful winner every 20 years or so. �And
> > all those other winners got recording contracts that came to naught?
>
> First of all, you said "competitions", not the Cliburn Competition
> specifically.
Well, not only is that the most famous in the US, it's also the one
mentioned in the original post.
>
> Vladimir Viardo was a fabulous player who was single-handedly
> prevented from having a career by Madame Furtseva.
>
> Other Cliburn winners have been Steven de Groote, who died of injuries
> suffered after his private plane crashed in the desert. He was a
> pianist of tremendous potential. As was Sultanov, who died of multiple
> strokes.
>
> Indeed the Cliburn has almost been cursed by such extraneous
> circumstances.
So, if you were a concert pianist looking to establish a career, how
important would winning the Cliburn be to you?
-Owen
O
<98a62976-44a2-4311...@g19g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>, td
<tomde...@mac.com> wrote:
> >
> > Tom, it sounds like you want the olden day Royalty system back, by
> > stuffing the panel with stellar talents - but I think there's a problem
> > with that: �If Horowitz was a single judge in a piano competition, the
> > winner would be the one that sounded most like Horowitz (listen to the
> > young Byron Janis).
>
> You sell VH short.
>
> He adored hearing young pianists and managed to do so. Even Murray
> Perahia, for example.
I'm sure he did, but Janis is the only one who got mileage from it, and
it's questionable that it did him any good.
-Owen
O
<c10bf6c6-57e8-4449...@r34g2000vba.googlegroups.com>,
Whosis Kid <whosis...@gmail.com> wrote:
> X-No-Archive: yes
>
> This discussion strikes me as very old-fashioned. It stinks of
> "celebrity" and celebrity-seeking, of groupyism. Fuck celebrity, fuck
> "success". It's about quality, not celebrity or success.
Quality doesn't, in and of itself, make the mortgage payments and put
the food on the table. Artists have to eat too.
-Owen
O
<f6f50891-e808-494c...@v17g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,
Whosis Kid <whosis...@gmail.com> wrote:
> X-No-Archive: yes
>
> On May 16, 9:51 pm, O <ow...@denofinequityx.com> wrote:
>
> > Quality doesn't, in and of itself, make the mortgage payments and put
> > the food on the table. Artists have to eat too.
> >
> > -Owen
>
> Of course, but their celebrity or lack thereof is not my business. I
> like great performances. Why would I discuss celebrity instead of
> performances?
Possibly because celebrity will determine whether you get to hear those
performances or not?
> The degree of fame is not always correlated with the
> quality. If one performer has a big propaganda machine behind him or
> her, and another one doesn't, fame might be helped along for the
> former... irrespective of the quality of their playing.
Exactly, and that's why we should care about celebrity, and who gets
it. Right now Lang Lang is the performer with the celebrity machine
behind him, is that good or bad for other "quality" musicians for whom
there is no money remaining for recording contracts for them?
-Owen
O
<aea763cb-c0fa-4396...@v17g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,
Whosis Kid <whosis...@gmail.com> wrote:
> X-No-Archive: yes
>
> On May 16, 10:03 pm, O <ow...@denofinequityx.com> wrote:
>
> > > On May 16, 9:51 pm, O <ow...@denofinequityx.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > Quality doesn't, in and of itself, make the mortgage payments and put
> > > > the food on the table. Artists have to eat too.
> >
> > > > -Owen
> >
> > > Of course, but their celebrity or lack thereof is not my business. I
> > > like great performances. Why would I discuss celebrity instead of
> > > performances?
> >
> > Possibly because celebrity will determine whether you get to hear those
> > performances or not?
> >
> > > The degree of fame is not always correlated with the
> > > quality. If one performer has a big propaganda machine behind him or
> > > her, and another one doesn't, fame might be helped along for the
> > > former... irrespective of the quality of their playing.
> >
> > Exactly, and that's why we should care about celebrity, and who gets
> > it. Right now Lang Lang is the performer with the celebrity machine
> > behind him, is that good or bad for other "quality" musicians for whom
> > there is no money remaining for recording contracts for them?
> >
> > -Owen
>
> I don't think Lang Lang is stealing from anybody.
Nor do I. But there's only so much money record companies have
budgeted for recording contracts. Lang Lang's is probably a large
portion.
> He does his thing
> and people go hear him. But of course I don't feel more obliged to
> listen to him than to other pianists (nor forbidden from listening to
> him). Actually, he's not that bad. Just the other day I heard him whip
> up Mendelssohn pretty well. Not exquisitely, but well, professionally
> done.
I think in some repertoire LL can play alright.
-Owen
Matthew�B.�Tepper
to be typed in news:170520090051190595%ow...@denofinequityx.com:
> I think in some repertoire LL can play alright.
Out of curiosity, which repertoire?
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers
LaVirtuosa
> X-No-Archive: yes
>
> This discussion strikes me as very old-fashioned. It stinks of
> "celebrity" and celebrity-seeking, of groupyism. Fuck celebrity, fuck
> far better known than Sergio Perticaroli... but Perticaroli kicks ass
> nevertheless. Many artists are "known" yet there are others who are
> better artists. And there is also the implicit assumption that
> greatness equals recording a lot for major companies. Not true. As I
> said, very old-fashioned thinking. Musicians should be judged by using
> the ears, not celebrity meters. Some of the people who seek a little
> celebrity ruboff on themselves have proven to be totally unreliable
> when it comes to using their ears. For example, the Hatto case. I
> think such people should shut up, since they have no credibility.
> "Alfred Brendel told me, yadda yadda yadda". Fuck all that. Brendel
> stands or falls when you listen to his performances. Anything else is
> superfluous, mere gossip, little stuff, meaningless musically.
>
> These old-fashioned celebrity seekers by proxy are not really useful
> in this group.
>
> wk
Oh.
Keep John Gavin. He's been very good.
This highest art has always been an exclusive draw.
The dichotomy itself has been perversely motivating, actually.
for no small number of participants.
Just a note: The only substantial text I memorized in High School.was
the "Friends, Romans, countrymen " speech.
************************Val
td
Well, they have at least a slew of candidates from the Orient this
year as well as a fair number from Russia.
So, I guess hope springs eternal in the human breast. Still.
TD
td
>
> <tomdedea...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> > > Tom, it sounds like you want the olden day Royalty system back, by
> > > stuffing the panel with stellar talents - but I think there's a problem
> > > with that: If Horowitz was a single judge in a piano competition, the
> > > winner would be the one that sounded most like Horowitz (listen to the
> > > young Byron Janis).
>
> > You sell VH short.
>
> > He adored hearing young pianists and managed to do so. Even Murray
> > Perahia, for example.
>
> I'm sure he did, but Janis is the only one who got mileage from it, and
> it's questionable that it did him any good.
??????
You know not of what you speak.
Ronald Turini and Ivan Davis also made careers on his teaching.
TD
td
>
> > > > Quality doesn't, in and of itself, make the mortgage payments and put
> > > > the food on the table. Artists have to eat too.
>
> > > > -Owen
>
> > > Of course, but their celebrity or lack thereof is not my business. I
> > > like great performances. Why would I discuss celebrity instead of
> > > performances?
>
> > Possibly because celebrity will determine whether you get to hear those
> > performances or not?
>
> > > The degree of fame is not always correlated with the
> > > quality. If one performer has a big propaganda machine behind him or
> > > her, and another one doesn't, fame might be helped along for the
> > > former... irrespective of the quality of their playing.
>
> > Exactly, and that's why we should care about celebrity, and who gets
> > it. Right now Lang Lang is the performer with the celebrity machine
> > behind him, is that good or bad for other "quality" musicians for whom
> > there is no money remaining for recording contracts for them?
>
> > -Owen
>
> and people go hear him. But of course I don't feel more obliged to
> listen to him than to other pianists (nor forbidden from listening to
> him). Actually, he's not that bad. Just the other day I heard him whip
> up Mendelssohn pretty well. Not exquisitely, but well, professionally
> done.
Hmmmmmmmm.
Looks as though the publicity machine is up and working.
TD
td
> Not too bad, TD :
>
> Marcello Abbado*
>
> Dmitri Alexeev
>
> Michel Beroff
>
> Hung-Kuan Chen*
>
> Richard Dyer*
>
> John Giordano, Chairman*
>
> Joseph Kalichstein
>
> Yoheved Kaplinsky*
>
> Jürgen Meyer-Josten
>
> Menahem Pressler
>
> Tadeusz Strugala
You might like to take a look at the jury for the Frederic Chopin
International Piano Competition to take place in October, 2010.
Andrzej Jasiński - chairperson
Martha Argerich
Dang Thai Son
Bella Davidovich
Philippe Entremont
Fou Ts'ong
Nelson Freire
Adam Harasiewicz
Kevin Kenner
Michie Koyama
Nikolai Lugansky
Piotr Paleczny
Katarzyna Popowa-Zydroń
What this competition has done is to select prominent pianists, many
of whom have actually won First Prize in Warsaw (Davidovich, Argerich,
Dang, Harasiewicz). This means that the traditions of fine Chopin
playing will be preserved in the competition.
TD
Rugby
> So, if you were a concert pianist looking to establish a career, how
> important would winning the Cliburn be to you?
>
Very, unfortunatey. Look at the pedigrees of the contestants, yet the
come .
From a longer article in the Ft.Worth Star-Telegram,June,2005:
"Even Ioudenitch, who benefited from the shared gold in 2001,
warned of the inherent pitfalls in giving out three or four first
prizes.
'Look, even though I think it took exceptional courage by the
Cliburn to have us share the gold medal, I still feel that in this
commercial time we are in, people out there really want to see
one gold medalist," Ioudenitch said. "Also, remember that
outside management wants one gold medal. Again, the people
really want to look up to just one idol.' "
Egads! I suspect that competition
mind-set has not changed much from 2005.
And where is Ioudenitch today ?
Regards, Rugby
Regards, Rugby
Rugby
> On May 16, 8:43 pm, O <ow...@denofinequityx.com> wrote:
And another view :
www.pianofestival.org/philosophy.htm
Rugby
"mcdonaldREMOVE TO...@scs.uiuc.edu
> O <ow...@denofinequityx.com> appears to have caused the following letters
> to be typed in news:170520090051190595%ow...@denofinequityx.com:
>
>> I think in some repertoire LL can play alright.
>
> Out of curiosity, which repertoire?
>
How about what my iPod's shuffle just served up to me:
the Khachaturian Piano Concerto.
Doug McDonald
BrianK
> Not too bad, TD :
>
> Marcello Abbado*
>
> Dmitri Alexeev
>
> Michel Beroff
>
> Hung-Kuan Chen*
>
> Richard Dyer*
>
> John Giordano, Chairman*
>
> Joseph Kalichstein
>
> Yoheved Kaplinsky*
>
> Jürgen Meyer-Josten
>
> Menahem Pressler
>
> Tadeusz Strugala
>
Reading through the various responses that this post has provoked is
really quite disappointing. Nobody appears to have thought insightully
about what constititutes a good competition jury, one that will give
fair and unbiased consideration to all competitors. There seems to be
an automatic assumption on the part of most respondents that
established concert pianists will make the best judges, which is
clearly nonsense. What about the large (larger ?) number of equally
good pianists who have chosen to teach rather than enter the gruelling
world of concert tours and recording sessions? And why do judges have
to be pianists? Musicologists and even, dare I suggest it, lay people
might have perspectives that are relevant if the criteria (and I hope
these are well-defined and set down before the event) allow for it.
My own view is that piano and other competitions are of limited value
but if we must have them then the jury needs to have balance,
representing experts and even non-experts from a variety of
backgrounds. Unless this criterion can be met then a piano competition
is little better than, for example, a US presidential election, a
popularity contest in which rhetoric, popular appeal and excessive
subjectivity rather than substance determine the outcome. Otherwise,
just hand the job over to Hollywood and be done with it.
On a final note, I have always been impressed by just how many of the
finest pianists never, as far as I know, competed in a piano
competition (Sviatoslav Richter, Glenn Gould, Percy Grainger, Alfred
Brendel ....) - I suspect it is an extremely long list.
Brian K
Rugby
> Reading through the various responses that this post has provoked is
> really quite disappointing.
Before you get too disappointed, try reviewing the link I posted
earlier, including the "test for effective adjudicators" at the very
end of the pager, and the "Judges" link at the site, as well as the
pros/cons list :
www.pianofestival.org/philosophy.htm
Regards, Rugbyt
Matthew�B.�Tepper
following letters to be typed in news:gup5nu$k6b$1...@news.acm.uiuc.edu:
Sure, why not? Although I'd rather listen to Kapell, or maybe Peter Katin.
her...@yahoo.com
>
> There seems to be
> an automatic assumption on the part of most respondents that
> established concert pianists will make the best judges, which is
> clearly nonsense.
>
> Brian K
Like I said, though I would never say "non-experts" or even non-
pianists should be in a piano comp jury.
Herman
O
Matthew�B.�Tepper <oy�@earthlink.net> wrote:
> O <ow...@denofinequityx.com> appears to have caused the following letters
> to be typed in news:170520090051190595%ow...@denofinequityx.com:
>
> > I think in some repertoire LL can play alright.
>
> Out of curiosity, which repertoire?
I'd love to hear him play the Prok 3rd, based on this oft-maligned
YouTube clip:
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MD55nUUKRPg>
While I would like to make a note that I said he could play "alright,"
(am I damning with faint praise? I'm not trying to) rather than
superbly, the zest and energy he shows in the video indicate to me that
he has some empathy for the work. (I still like Gutierrez as the best
in this concerto.)
-Owen
O
<75a91ede-21be-483b...@g20g2000vba.googlegroups.com>, td
<tomde...@mac.com> wrote:
> > So, if you were a concert pianist looking to establish a career, how
> > important would winning the Cliburn be to you?
>
> Well, they have at least a slew of candidates from the Orient this
> year as well as a fair number from Russia.
>
> So, I guess hope springs eternal in the human breast. Still.
I think if I were a budding concert pianist, and I got accepted to the
Cliburn, I'd be delighted. However, I would not expect it to make a
major impact on my career either way.
-Owen
number_six
> snip <
> Reading through the various responses that this post has provoked is
> really quite disappointing. Nobody appears to have thought insightully
> about what constititutes a good competition jury, one that will give
> fair and unbiased consideration to all competitors. There seems to be
an automatic assumption on the part of most respondents that
established concert pianists will make the best judges, which is
I thought you got some solid suggestions, especially in one post from
La Virtuosa.
But if you want to go beyond established concert pianists to fill out
the judging panel, there are only a few other places you can turn
unless you are willing to consider critics, industry executives, or
audience members.
Ruling those folks out for the moment, you could try to augment the
pool of pianist-judges with (1) conductors, (2) composers, (3)
musicians who specialize in another instrument, but who perform with
pianists, and (4) teachers or professors.
There's some overlap in these categories, of course, but how would you
feel about a panel that was 60% pianists, and 40% drawn from other
categories I've named (or that others think of)? You could also throw
in the occasional wealthy patron if the thought is not so repellant...
Lee
O
<5f28a362-1287-48a8...@q2g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>, td
<tomde...@mac.com> wrote:
That's true - I didn't realize Horowitz also took on Turini and Davis.
I vaguely remember Davis from the 70s, but don't know anything about
Turini.
>
> Ronald Turini and Ivan Davis also made careers on his teaching.
And would you describe their technique as Horowitzian (as I would
certainly describe the early Janis)?
-Owen
O
<29dbfbb3-3940-4938...@f16g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>,
Rugby <steve...@gmail.com> wrote:
In case the question was more than rhetorical:
from Wikipedia:
"He is currently Associate Professor of Music and the Artistic Director
of the Youth Conservatory of Music at the International Center for
Music at Park University in Missouri, USA."
-Owen
LaVirtuosa
Teaching.
HvT
"O" <ow...@denofinequityx.com> schreef in bericht
news:170520091310134324%ow...@denofinequityx.com...
I've never heard of Davis. Turini's technique certainly was Horowitzian.
He was an excellent candidate (2nd place) in the 1960 Queen Elisabeth
Concours. However, he played Liszt #1 while Frager (1st place) did play
Prokofiev #2 at least as well.
Henk
LaVirtuosa
> On May 15, 7:29�am, Rugby <steveha...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Not too bad, TD :
>
> > Marcello Abbado*
>
> > Dmitri Alexeev
>
> > Michel Beroff
>
> > Hung-Kuan Chen*
>
> > Richard Dyer*
>
> > John Giordano, Chairman*
>
> > Joseph Kalichstein
>
> > Yoheved Kaplinsky*
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
My teacher, who died last January, and who was mensa btw,
would have made a very fine judge.
*****************Val
LaVirtuosa
> "mcdonaldREMOVE TO ACTUALLY REACH ME"@scs.uiuc.edu appears to have caused the
>
> > Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
> >> O <ow...@denofinequityx.com> appears to have caused the following letters
>
> >>> I think in some repertoire LL can play alright.
>
> >> Out of curiosity, which repertoire?
>
> > How about what my iPod's shuffle just served up to me: the Khachaturian
> > Piano Concerto.
>
> Sure, why not? �Although I'd rather listen to Kapell, or maybe Peter Katin.
>
> --
> Matthew B. Tepper: �WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
> My main music page ---http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
> To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
> Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers
He's good at soft, squishy impressionistic music.
I think that's the area he should focus on.
*****Val
Rugby
>
> I've never heard of Davis.
Here you can also hear Davis : www.ivandavis.com
Rugby
HvT
"Rugby" <steve...@gmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:afdb4006-43ea-4e47...@p4g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
|Rugby
Many thanks!! He has a great left hand ...
Henk
td
Actuallly this is incorrect.
Glenn Gould competed in the local Kiwanis Competition in his youth.
Brendel also competed. I believe that he participated in the Busoni
Competition, but was unsuccessful. It is also hard not to think that
SR was in some Soviet competition at some point in his life.
TD
td
Turini gave a flawless imitation of Horowitz. Except that he always
played ALL the notes.
Davis was highly influenced by VH's sense of colour and rhythm.
TD
Rugby
> There was an interesting piece in the Guardian about music competitions
> by Jessica Duchen, where she mentions all sorts of bad behaviour.
> Sadly, she says the lawyers edited out much of it, but even what
> remained (plus her blog entry about it) hinted at serious corruption.
> Judges taking competitor's prize money, expecting sex...you know, the
> usual stuff.
Excuse my skepticism. The "usual stuff' ?! Of course --- it's the
Guardian.
Which judge had sex with contestants at the 2005 Cliburn ?
Pressler ?!
Regards, Rugby
Proboscis
"CharlesSmith" <sigma....@ntlworld.com> wrote
>
> I'd also be interested to know your assessment of the Leeds jury (a
> young friend of mine is a competitor).
It is beyond me why TD's opinionated assessment would be of any interent to
anyone.
Bob Lombard
Hah. That's "expecting sex". Not corruption, it's optimism. "Taking"
prize money? What would the mechanics of that be?
bl
td
> "CharlesSmith" <sigma.onl...@ntlworld.com> wrote
That is because you're brain dead.
TD
LaVirtuosa
> > In article <7cf15fa4-ae19-499e-8891-e896c7d76...@j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>, cyberi...@hotmail.com says...
> listening to pianists in a detailed way, and evaluating what they are
> doing in a relatively objective way. �That's what they do. �The
> question is whether that's the real goal of competitions.
>
> There was an interesting piece in the Guardian about music competitions
> by Jessica Duchen, where she mentions all sorts of bad behaviour. �
> Sadly, she says the lawyers edited out much of it, but even what
> remained (plus her blog entry about it) hinted at serious corruption. �
> Judges taking competitor's prize money, expecting sex...you know, the
> pointing, nothing will come of it.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
I think one might go through this list one by one visiting all the
links and then give credit where credit is due
http://www.cliburn.org/index.php?page=cliburn_current_jury
It's hard to believe that these people will have nothing of value to
say.
**********************Val
laraine
>
>
>
> Whosis Kid <whosiskid2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > X-No-Archive: yes
>
> > On May 16, 10:03 pm, O <ow...@denofinequityx.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On May 16, 9:51 pm, O <ow...@denofinequityx.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > Quality doesn't, in and of itself, make the mortgage payments and put
> > > > > the food on the table. Artists have to eat too.
>
> > > > > -Owen
>
> > > > Of course, but their celebrity or lack thereof is not my business. I
> > > > like great performances. Why would I discuss celebrity instead of
> > > > performances?
>
> > > Possibly because celebrity will determine whether you get to hear those
> > > performances or not?
>
> > > > The degree of fame is not always correlated with the
> > > > quality. If one performer has a big propaganda machine behind him or
> > > > her, and another one doesn't, fame might be helped along for the
> > > > former... irrespective of the quality of their playing.
>
> > > Exactly, and that's why we should care about celebrity, and who gets
> > > it. Right nowLangLangis the performer with the celebrity machine
> > > behind him, is that good or bad for other "quality" musicians for whom
> > > there is no money remaining for recording contracts for them?
>
> > > -Owen
>
> > I don't thinkLangLangis stealing from anybody.
>
> Nor do I. But there's only so much money record companies have
> budgeted for recording contracts. LangLang'sis probably a large
> portion.
I imagine they're only going to budget as much
as they think they can get back. And if they
don't get it back, he'll get less. And if they get
extra, maybe they'd use their share of the
money to support others too.
C.
>
> > He does his thing
> > and people go hear him. But of course I don't feel more obliged to
> > listen to him than to other pianists (nor forbidden from listening to
> > him). Actually, he's not that bad. Just the other day I heard him whip
> > up Mendelssohn pretty well. Not exquisitely, but well, professionally
> > done.
>
> I think in some repertoire LL can play alright.
>
> -Owen
wimpie
> On May 15, 7:06 am, CharlesSmith <sigma.onl...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 15 May, 10:26, td <tomdedea...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> > > On May 14, 6:29 pm, Rugby <steveha...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Not too bad, TD :
>
> > > > Marcello Abbado*
>
> > > > Dmitri Alexeev
>
> > > > Michel Beroff
>
> > > > Hung-Kuan Chen*
>
> > > > Richard Dyer*
>
> > > > John Giordano, Chairman*
>
> > > > Joseph Kalichstein
>
> > > > Yoheved Kaplinsky*
>
> > > > Jürgen Meyer-Josten
>
> > > > Menahem Pressler
>
> > > > Tadeusz Strugala
>
>
> > > There is not a single MAJOR artist on this jury. Pressler is gaga.
> > > Beroff is washed out. Kalichstein is a minor pianist. Ditto Alexeev.
>
> > > Sorry, this is a tawdry assembly of has-beens selected for highly
> > > political reasons. Koplinsky was on the pre-screening jury and
> > > selected two of her own students from among the hundreds auditioned.
> > > The Chinese jury member was selected to bring in the Shanghai crowd.
>
> > > Yuk.
>
> > > TD
>
> > I'd also be interested to know your assessment of the Leeds jury (a
>
> There's Pressler, again. Ho hum!
>
> And Beroff also. Guess he isn't playing much anymore. Was deep into
> drugs for a long time.
>
> The rest look like third rung players/teachers.
>
> Where is Argerich? Zimerman? Feire? Perahia? Brendel? Sokolov? et al.
>
> Without the top rung players in these competitions, what we get are
> second rung opinions.
>
> Just look at THIS jury and weep.
>
> Arthur Rubinstein,
> Guido Agosti (Italy),
> Enrique Barenboim (Israel),
> Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli (Italy),
> Jacques Fevrier (France),
> Henri Gagnebin (Switzerland),
> Eugene Istomin (U.S.A.),
> Mindru Katz (Israel), I
> rving Kolodin (U.S.A.),
> Pnina Salzman (Israel),
> Michal Smoira-Cohn (Israel),
> Alexander Tansman (France),
> Dieter Weber (Austria)
>
> This was the jury for the first Artur Rubinstein Competition in 1974.
> ANY young pianist would have been thrilled to play for such a group of
> musicians.
>
> Frankly, I think the top rung pianists have sort of given up on
> competitions these days and refuse. That said, I do know that Nelson
> Freire will be on the jury in Warsaw in October 2010. Of course there
> will be the usual contingent of Polish teachers, but they are smart to
> invite an active top rank pianist. Warsaw is very special, I have to
> add.
>
> TD- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Was Enrique Barenboim a major pianist?? (Apart from being the father
of Daniel, he doesn't seem like a household name !)
td
You find it hard. I find it very easy.
Ms. Koplinsky already had her say in the pre-screening. She managed to
squirrel a couple of her own students into the mix. This is the second
time this broad has pulled off this stunt. The last time it caused a
veritable outcry, to which the good folks at the VCC were indifferent,
of course.
TD
wimpie
> On May 14, 6:29 pm, Rugby <steveha...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Not too bad, TD :
>
> > Marcello Abbado*
>
> > Dmitri Alexeev
>
> > Michel Beroff
>
> > Hung-Kuan Chen*
>
> > Richard Dyer*
>
> > John Giordano, Chairman*
>
> > Joseph Kalichstein
>
> > Yoheved Kaplinsky*
>
> > Jürgen Meyer-Josten
>
> > Menahem Pressler
>
> > Tadeusz Strugala
>
> International Piano Competition to take place in October, 2010.
>
> Andrzej Jasiñski - chairperson
> Martha Argerich
> Dang Thai Son
> Bella Davidovich
> Philippe Entremont
> Fou Ts'ong
> Nelson Freire
> Adam Harasiewicz
> Kevin Kenner
> Michie Koyama
> Nikolai Lugansky
> Piotr Paleczny
> Katarzyna Popowa-Zydroñ
>
> What this competition has done is to select prominent pianists, many
> of whom have actually won First Prize in Warsaw (Davidovich, Argerich,
> Dang, Harasiewicz). This means that the traditions of fine Chopin
> playing will be preserved in the competition.
>
> TD- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Well, this should be the first time you just mention the names of
Lugansky and Davidovich without condescending comments (as you did
above for Béroff and Pressler). Wow!
td
Don't be so amazed.
Lugansky is irrelevant in this company. Davidovich deserves her place
because of her First Prize, albeit one she shared with Halina Czerny-
Stefanska, a much more interesting pianist, I would say.
Even Philippe Entremont, whom I absolutely LOATHE as a performer,
recognizes a musician when he hears one, as he has with the excellent
German pianist Sebastian Knauer.
It is nice to see Harasiewicz rearing his head in Poland again. He has
been teaching in Vienna for years and years. But he is/was some
pianist.
TD
Matthew�B.�Tepper
letters to be typed in news:0009abb6$0$18536$c3e...@news.astraweb.com:
I supposed it might be amusing to those who have not yet tired of him.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
td
> "Proboscis" <probos...@gmx.net> appears to have caused the following> > "CharlesSmith" <sigma.onl...@ntlworld.com> wrote
>
> >> I'd also be interested to know your assessment of the Leeds jury (a
> >> young friend of mine is a competitor).
>
> > It is beyond me why TD's opinionated assessment would be of any interent
> > to anyone.
>
> I supposed it might be amusing to those who have not yet tired of him.
A sentiment felt by all here who read Tepper's endless whines and
gripes.
My mother never told me there would be slugs like him.
TD
O
Matthew�B.�Tepper <oy�@earthlink.net> wrote:
> "Proboscis" <prob...@gmx.net> appears to have caused the following
> letters to be typed in news:0009abb6$0$18536$c3e...@news.astraweb.com:
>
> > "CharlesSmith" <sigma....@ntlworld.com> wrote
> >>
> >> I'd also be interested to know your assessment of the Leeds jury (a
> >> young friend of mine is a competitor).
> >
> > It is beyond me why TD's opinionated assessment would be of any interent
> > to anyone.
>
> I supposed it might be amusing to those who have not yet tired of him.
I think he has some decent musical opinions when he confines himself to
music. It's when he troll baits and shows his predilection for insult
mud wrestling matches when he grows tiresome.
-Owen, who grew tiresome around 1990.
If you want to grow tiresome, get plenty of fresh, loamy earth to sling
on the seeds, and plenty and plenty of manure.
Matthew�B.�Tepper
be typed in news:190520091019150516%ow...@denofinequityx.com:
> In article <Xns9C0FDF71879...@216.168.3.30>,
> Matthew�B.�Tepper <oy�@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> "Proboscis" <prob...@gmx.net> appears to have caused the following
>> letters to be typed in news:0009abb6$0$18536$c3e...@news.astraweb.com:
>>
>> > "CharlesSmith" <sigma....@ntlworld.com> wrote
>> >>
>> >> I'd also be interested to know your assessment of the Leeds jury (a
>> >> young friend of mine is a competitor).
>> >
>> > It is beyond me why TD's opinionated assessment would be of any interent
>> > to anyone.
>>
>> I supposed it might be amusing to those who have not yet tired of him.
>
> I think he has some decent musical opinions when he confines himself to
> music. It's when he troll baits and shows his predilection for insult
> mud wrestling matches when he grows tiresome.
I'm afraid that the whole Hatto business has compromised the usefulness of
his stated opinions about music.
> -Owen, who grew tiresome around 1990.
>
> If you want to grow tiresome, get plenty of fresh, loamy earth to sling
> on the seeds, and plenty and plenty of manure.
--
td
> O <ow...@denofinequityx.com> appears to have caused the following letters to
> be typed innews:190520091019150516%ow...@denofinequityx.com:
>
>
>
> >> letters to be typed innews:0009abb6$0$18536$c3e...@news.astraweb.com:
>
> >> > "CharlesSmith" <sigma.onl...@ntlworld.com> wrote
>
> >> >> I'd also be interested to know your assessment of the Leeds jury (a
> >> >> young friend of mine is a competitor).
>
> >> > It is beyond me why TD's opinionated assessment would be of any interent
> >> > to anyone.
>
> >> I supposed it might be amusing to those who have not yet tired of him.
>
> > I think he has some decent musical opinions when he confines himself to
> > music. It's when he troll baits and shows his predilection for insult
> > mud wrestling matches when he grows tiresome.
>
> I'm afraid that the whole Hatto business has compromised the usefulness of
> his stated opinions about music.
Quite the contrary.
Hatto, as a pianist, was a complete fiction.
Therefore, opinions on her "playing" were, of necessity, blind tests
of listening.
Very interesting, actually. And many of those performances - at least
the ones which were not speeded up, slowed down, or otherwise tinkered
with, remain valuable recordings of the music in question.
Tepper dreams as he goes to sleep at night that TD will go away and
leave him to his incessant whining and griping.
Not going to happen, Tepper.
So, just get with the programme.
TD
Anonymous
> On May 19, 10:41 am, "Matthew B. Tepper" <oy�@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > O <ow...@denofinequityx.com> appears to have caused the following letters to
> > be typed innews:190520091019150516%ow...@denofinequityx.com:
>
> > > In article <Xns9C0FDF7187964quackandf...@216.168.3.30>,
What a clown! What's your latest man crush, coglione? What you know about piano can be summarized in one word, Hatto!
Carlo
Richard
An interesting point and a valid one. If, as I believe, our
evaluations of a performance are coloured by expectations (It's
Richter, it's got to be good/ too slow/too bangy . . . adapt to taste)
having a label kindly deliver almost a 100 best piano CDs collection
played by Anonymous is a really good taste test. In this case
anonymous had a name (false) just like Betty Crocker, so the punters
could identify with a person.
In some sense it is the people who did not find any Hatto CDs to their
taste who should wonder about their listening acuity. (I never heard
any, nor bought any. I think I had one of her Saga LPs a long time
ago. I have bought some of the discs discussed when their performers
came out from behind the green curtain.)
Richard