The best Mahler symphonies
Bloom
which would you choose? In other words, what would be your ideal
Mahler symphony cycle? I don't have one of my own, as I haven't heard
nearly enough recordings to make such claims, but I'd be interested to
hear what everyone else has to say.
Oh, what the heck. Even though I've only heard a very few Mahler
recordings, and I haven't heard some of his symphonies at all, I'll
still offer up my (admittedly inchoate) "ideal Mahler symphony cycle".
Here it is (and please don't laugh at my newbie-ness):
Mahler 1: Walter/NYPO, Sony or Kubelik, DG (I like both of these)
Mahler 2: Walter/NYPO, Sony
Mahler 3: I've never heard this symphony (but I will be going to see
Boulez conduct the Cleveland Orchestra's performance of it later this
season)
Mahler 4: Szell/Cleveland Orchestra, Sony
Mahler 5: Bernstein/VPO, DG
Mahler 6: Szell/Cleveland Orchestra, Sony
Mahler 7: Never heard it
Mahler 8: Never heard it
Mahler 9: Never heard it
I'm now going to go hang my head in shame for not having heard so many
of Mahler's symphonies. Also, notice that most of the versions I've
chosen are ones that I've been able to get at bargain prices. Alas,
the price of recordings is still very much a factor in my determining
which ones to buy.
Bloom
>
>Mahler 1: Walter/NYPO, Sony or Kubelik, DG (I like both of these)
>
Of course, I meant Walter/Columbia Symphony Orchestra. His second is
with the NYPO. Having the two symphonies in the same bargain package
confused me for a moment.
Jeff Cunningham
I like Bernstein's ninth. I like Solti's 8th, but the 8th I listen to
most often is Jeffrey Simon's with the Northwest Mahler Festival.
There's an intensity to it - and a pace - that is unmatched elsewhere.
J. Cunningham
Matthew Silverstein
> If you could only have one recording of each of Mahler's symphonies,
> which would you choose? In other words, what would be your ideal
> Mahler symphony cycle?
Hmm, I don't know. The only four I'm relatively confident in choosing a
favorite for are:
1: Kubelik (DG)
2: Bernstein/NYPO (Sony)
5: Bernstein (DG)
8: Sinopoli (DG)
I'll leave it there for now . . .
Matty
Ray Hall
news:6kptpu07qnkn78ka8...@4ax.com...
| If you could only have one recording of each of Mahler's symphonies,
| which would you choose? In other words, what would be your ideal
| Mahler symphony cycle? I don't have one of my own, as I haven't heard
| nearly enough recordings to make such claims, but I'd be interested to
| hear what everyone else has to say.
|
| Oh, what the heck. Even though I've only heard a very few Mahler
| recordings, and I haven't heard some of his symphonies at all, I'll
| still offer up my (admittedly inchoate) "ideal Mahler symphony cycle".
| Here it is (and please don't laugh at my newbie-ness):
My favourites are somewhat similar. I used to like Szell in the 4th until I
heard Kletzki, who blows him away :-
1. Walter Col SO (Sony)
2. Walter NYPO (Sony)
4. Kletzki (EMI)
5. Bernstein DG
6. Szell or Bernstein (Sony)
7. Kubelik (DG)
Das Lied von der Erde. Walter Col SO (Sony)
Kubelik (DG) and Bernstein (Sony) for complete sets.
Never was that ultra wild about the 3rd, 8th and 9th.
Regards,
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Johannes Roehl
> Oh, what the heck. Even though I've only heard a very few Mahler
> recordings, and I haven't heard some of his symphonies at all, I'll
> still offer up my (admittedly inchoate) "ideal Mahler symphony cycle".
> Here it is (and please don't laugh at my newbie-ness):
--snip--
> Mahler 3: I've never heard this symphony (but I will be going to see
> Boulez conduct the Cleveland Orchestra's performance of it later this
> season)
IMO the 3rd is among the hardest to grasp pieces of Mahler
(I know many will disagree), so it might be smart to try to
listen to it on disc before the concert
---snip---
> Mahler 7: Never heard it
>
> Mahler 8: Never heard it
>
> Mahler 9: Never heard it
>
> I'm now going to go hang my head in shame for not having heard so many
> of Mahler's symphonies. Also, notice that most of the versions I've
> chosen are ones that I've been able to get at bargain prices. Alas,
> the price of recordings is still very much a factor in my determining
> which ones to buy.
No need to be ashamed, but in your case I'd rather get to
know 7-9 than acquire multiple versions of the other ones.
the Kubelik Cycle is supposed to be decent (don't have it
complete) and should come rather cheap (you could also get
is 9th only on DGs cheap Musikfest/Resonance, because there
is really no excuse for not getting to know the 9th).
Also get the Klemperer recording of Das Lied von der Erde is
available for a decent price on EMI (GROC)
Johannes
George John
-snip-
> If you could only have one recording of each of Mahler's symphonies,
> which would you choose?
Your question reminds me of a story I once heard. A tourist asked a ranger
at Yosemite National Park what he would do if he had only one day to spend
in the park. The ranger's answer was "Cry".
-snip-
George
George John
-snip-
> I'm now going to go hang my head in shame for not having heard so many
> of Mahler's symphonies. Also, notice that most of the versions I've
> chosen are ones that I've been able to get at bargain prices. Alas,
> the price of recordings is still very much a factor in my determining
> which ones to buy.
The possible deal of the century -grin- for Mahler symphonies can be found
at www.broinc.com. Search for "mahler horenstein proctor". The search
should result in one hit which is a box set of symphonies 1 through 9 with a
current price of $21.89 plus shipping & handling.
I bought this for the Horenstein 3rd which I previously had only on LP.
This remains a highly regarded performance by many, and some consider it the
best. I have also listened to the 7th and 9th on this set. IMHO, these are
both fine performances of these two works (the Gewandhaus string section is
fabulous on both). Since you haven't heard the 3rd, 7th, 8th, and 9th, this
box set might provide a good introduction to these works at relatively low
cost. I urge you to become familiar with these four masterpieces.
For a review of this set by Tony Duggan see
http://www.musicweb.uk.net/classrev/2000/nov00/Mahler_Symphonies.htm His
opening comment is "This is one of the great bargains." You will find the
2nd is the weakest in the collection, but since you already have a recording
of it that may not be an issue for you.
The Litton/Dallas/Delos Mahler 3rd can be found at www.broinc.com for $5.98.
Much to my surprise and amazement, I found I preferred this performance to
my long treasured Horenstein, but I'm certain many will disagree, perhaps
vehemently, with my opinion. For a review of this recording see
http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=1108 Barry Guerrero gave
it a 10/10.
A "budget" recording of the 8th to possibly consider is the remastered
Solti/CSO/Decca Legends which fits on a single CD and can be had for $11.98
at Amazon and as little as $8.99 used. Check out the list of soloists on
this recording if you haven't already! While I no longer like my various
Solti recordings as much as I once did, this one still holds up well IMHO.
David Hurwitz's review can be found at
http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=184
George
David7Gable
I thought this would be an easy assignment to complete, but as you'll see I
wasn't able to complete it.
Mahler 1
I don't dislike the piece, but I could live without it and rarely listen to it.
Mahler 2
Kubelik/DGG or Bernstein's 1st recording
Mahler 3
Don't know. I have several recordings, but haven't found one that knocks my
socks off.
Mahler 4
Walter's commercial recording
Mahler 5
Don't know. Have several that I like.
Mahler 6
Ditto
Mahler 7
My favorite is a non-existent Boulez recording along the lines of his savagely
expressionistic first recording of Berg's Op. 6. Also like Maderna (despite
terrible orchestral playing), Kubelik live (Audite), and Kubelik/DGG
Mahler 8
Bernstein/CBS, Kubelik/DGG, and Boulez/BBC SO (live)
Mahler 9
Not sure which is my favorite.
-david gable
JRsnfld
>
Of course, I meant Walter/Columbia Symphony Orch >>
Not necessarily "of course"--there are Walter/NYPO performances on different
labels. Some of us prefer these to the Columbia recording, which is very good
indeed.
--Jeff
Dave Cook
> If you could only have one recording of each of Mahler's symphonies,
> which would you choose?
My Mahler collection is somewhat of a hodge-podge, and I don't think I've
reached an ideal.
In addition to the ones listed below, I have the Brilliant box, but I got
that just for the Horenstein and haven't listened to anything else in it but
Neumann's 5, and I don't feel like listening through all the others.
Anything else in there I should give a listen before I dump them?
1: Ancerl. I like the straightforwardness of this account, and the sound
of the Czech Phil. Also have: Horenstein I & II; Bernstein II.
2: Klemperer for now. Also have: Klemperer/BRSO; Bernstein I; Kaplan.
3: Bernstein II. Also have Horenstein.
4: Kletzki. Also have Szell.
5: Saraste for now; Also have: Barbirolli; Bernstein II; Levine. I had
the Sinopoli for many years.
6: Bernstein II. Also have: Bernstein I; Levine; Barbirolli. I think the
Levine still holds up well. I like Barbirolli here more than I do his 5.
7: Bernstein I. Also have: Abbado (very good) and Horenstein
8: Not sure. I have Solti, Horenstein, and Inbal. The singers on the Inbal
are only OK, but otherwise I think he holds up very well.
Das Lied: Klemperer?. Also have: Horenstein; Ferrier/Patzak/Walter;
Haitink; Kletzki.
9: Giulini. Also have: Klemperer; Bernstein/Berlin; Levine; Horenstein/Vox
10: I have Rattle I (Cooke II with Rattle's modifications) and Lopez-Cobos
(revised Mazetti).
Dave Cook
vaneyes
> which would you choose?
1. Bernstein (DG); 2. Scherchen (MCA Millennium); 3. Bernstein (Sony
Century); 4. Szell (Sony); 5. Bernstein (DG); 6. Barbirolli (EMI Rouge
et Noir); 7. Gielen (Hanssler); 8. Solti (Decca Legends); 9.
Barbirolli (EMI GROC ART).
Regards
Roger Lopez
>If you could only have one recording of each of Mahler's symphonies,
>which would you choose? In other words, what would be your ideal
>Mahler symphony cycle? I don't have one of my own, as I haven't heard
>nearly enough recordings to make such claims, but I'd be interested to
>hear what everyone else has to say.
>
While I love Mahler's symphonies, GREAT recordings of them are, in my
opinion, inexplicably rare (compared, say, to GREAT recordings of
Beethoven masterpieces). Thus, these are probably the last works in
which I'd want to confine myself to a single recording. But the
handful I think I could pick with some confidence:
(1) Solti/LSO
(4) Mengelberg
(5) Tennstedt (whose other Mahler recordings often bore me)
(9) Walter (EMI)
Das Lied -- Bertini
Brian Cantin
1 Walter/Sony(Columbia Symphony)
Horenstein/Unicorn
Bernstein/DG
2 Klemperer/EMI
Walter/Sony
3 Horenstein/Unicorn
4 Abravanel/Vanguard
5 Walter/Sony
Barbirolli/EMI
6 Barbirolli/EMI
7 Horenstein
8 Horenstei/BBC
9 Walter/Sony
--
Brian Cantin
An advocate of poisonous individualism.
To reply via email, replace "dcantin" with "bcantin".
Brian Park
> which would you choose? In other words, what would be your ideal
> Mahler symphony cycle? I don't have one of my own, as I haven't heard
> nearly enough recordings to make such claims, but I'd be interested to
> hear what everyone else has to say.
>
It was the summer of 1998 when I was first bit with the Mahler bug and I
haven't been able to shake it since. And believe me when I say that it is
just impossible to have only one recording of each piece.
> Oh, what the heck. Even though I've only heard a very few Mahler
> recordings, and I haven't heard some of his symphonies at all, I'll
> still offer up my (admittedly inchoate) "ideal Mahler symphony cycle".
> Here it is (and please don't laugh at my newbie-ness):
>
No laughter from me. Looks like you're off to a great start. So here are
my favorites at this point:
> Mahler 1: Walter/NYPO, Sony or Kubelik, DG (I like both of these)
>
Kubelik (both DG and especially the Audite), Horenstein, Bernstein DG,
Boulez DG
> Mahler 2: Walter/NYPO, Sony
>
Klemperer (both with Philharmonia on EMI and especially the live Bavarian
Radio Symphony Orchestra also on EMI), Bernstein Sony (with NYPO), Abbado DG
(with CSO), Kaplan (Conifer)
> Mahler 3: I've never heard this symphony (but I will be going to see
> Boulez conduct the Cleveland Orchestra's performance of it later this
> season)
>
Bernstein (both Sony and DG), Horenstein (Unicorn), Sinopoli (DG), Litton
(Delos), Abbado (the more recent DG one with BPO)
> Mahler 4: Szell/Cleveland Orchestra, Sony
>
Kletzki (Royal Classics), Reiner (BMG/RCA), Kubelik (DG), Horenstein (Chief
and also Classics for Pleasure), Gatti (Conifer/BMG)
> Mahler 5: Bernstein/VPO, DG
Walter (Sony with NYPO), Schwartz (Everest/Vanguard), Barbirolli (EMI),
Shipway (Platinum Classics), Barshai (Laurel)
>
> Mahler 6: Szell/Cleveland Orchestra, Sony
>
Bernstein (DG), Boulez (DG), Sanderling (Real Sound, I think)
> Mahler 7: Never heard it
>
Bernstein (Sony and DG), Horenstein (BBC Classics unless you can find the
Descant version), Abbado (DG), Boulez (DG)
> Mahler 8: Never heard it
>
Horenstein (BBC Legends), Solti (Decca), Tennstedt (EMI), Sinopoli (DG)
> Mahler 9: Never heard it
>
Barbirolli (EMI), Horenstein (BBC Legends), Klemperer (EMI), Haitink
(Philips), Abbado (the newer DG one with BPO)
And don't forget Das Lied von der Erde
Klemperer (EMI), Reiner (BMG/RCA), Horenstein (BBC Legends), Haitink
(Philips), Barenboim (Erato)
> I'm now going to go hang my head in shame for not having heard so many
> of Mahler's symphonies. Also, notice that most of the versions I've
> chosen are ones that I've been able to get at bargain prices. Alas,
> the price of recordings is still very much a factor in my determining
> which ones to buy.
A lot of the older recordings that have attained classic status can be
attained at the bargain or mid-price range. You can also find some good
stuff now and then at places like Berkshire, eBay or Amazon, etc. Good luck
in your quest to learn Mahler. You're in for quite a ride!
Brian Park
MIFrost
Jeff Cunningham <jef...@cunningham.net> wrote in message
news:3D9F0673...@cunningham.net...
>
> I like Bernstein's ninth.
>
Which one? I have his Berlin. I'm flirting with the Concertgebouw. And
there's also his NYP.
MIFrost
Sacqueboutier
sfr...@nycap.rr.com wrote on 10/5/02 8:14 PM:
The Concertgebouw recording is, IMHO, the one to have. It's
gutwrenching (in the best way, of course).
--
Don Patterson
DCP Music Printing
Professional Music Copy
and Arrangements
don...@olg.com
"Sometimes I wonder. We are told that the little things
in life are what make life worth living. Then we are
told, "Don't sweat the small stuff". Does this mean that
if the little things in life don't happen, and we don't
'sweat it', life is not worth living?"
Heck51
"If you could only have one recording of each of Mahler's symphonies,
which would you choose?"
#1 - Giulini/CSO/EMI; Walter/ColSO/Sony
#2 - Solti/CSO/London; Walter.NYPO/Sony
#3 - Levine/CSO/RCA; Bernstein/NYPO II/DG
#4 - Walter/NYPO/Sony - 1945; Reiner/CSO/RCA
#5 - Solti/CSO I & II/London; Abbado/CSO/DG; Walter/NYPO/sony - 1947
#6 - Solti/CSO/London
#7 - Abbado/CSO/DG; Bernstein/NYPO I/Sony
#8 - Solti/CSO/London
#9 - Giulini/CSO/DG; Walter/ColSO/Sony
#10 - Martinon/CSO/CSO Archive - live '66; Ormandy/PhilaO/Sony is good. also
JRsnfld
> which would you choose? >>
Right now, I don't think I could ever make such a choice. And the list would
change day to day. The following would make a really good set of 9, err 11,
that would make alot of people very happy, with some emphasis on relatively
good sound relative availability (because otherwise the choice gets even
harder):
1. Tennstedt/CSO or Eschenbach
2. Kubelik (Audite) or Blomstedt
3. Nagano or Tilson-Thomas
4. Gatti or Levine
5. Solti 1 or Kubelik (Audite)
6. Tennstedt (live) or Bertini
7. Gielen or Tennstedt (live)
8. Solti or Sinopoli
9. Gielen or Bernstein (Concertgebouw)
DLvDE: Klemperer (EMI) or Barenboim
10. Sanderling or Rattle (2)
--Jeff
Your Pal Brian
> I bought this for the Horenstein 3rd which I previously had only on LP.
> This remains a highly regarded performance by many, and some consider it the
> best.
I'm one of them. I imprinted on Jascha, and he finds beauty in the most
unlikely places. Twenty bucks for eleven disks? Count me in.
For 1 it seems that most here prefer Bernstein's DG version; I like his first
run though with the NY Phil. Sure it's willful and perverse, but that's why I
like it.
For 2 I like Stokowski LSO, which isn't frequently mentioned hereabouts (and no
longer in print, I gather.) It's a fiery performance that he cut when in his
nineties.
3 is Horenstein, but Tennstedt BPO is good too. And I heard Zubin Mehta do it
live twice and both times were stunning.
4 Bruno Walter.
5, again I like Bernstein NY Phil., and for the same reasons as 1.
Willfulness. Perversity. His European set has it's virtues, but on the whole
it's a bit too polite for me.
6 puts me under.
7 I've only heard Kubelik. It's been described in this thread as decent, and
decent it is, but no more.
8 I can also do without, but threaten me with harm and I guess I'd say
Bernstein.
9 Klemperer.
Brian
Your Pal Brian
> 3 is Horenstein, but Tennstedt BPO is good too.
I meant LPO.
- B
sch...@gefen.cc.biu.ac.il
: 4 Bruno Walter.
Which one? He recorded it five times that I'm aware of. My favorite is
the one he did in the 50's with an orchestra from Frankfurt. Despite
the scrappiness of the orchestra, I think that Walter really nails the
piece. As a certain rmcr frequent flyer once put it (I can't reveal his
name because this was in a private email), "It's like Mengelberg on Prozac."
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"We cannot see how any of his music can long survive him."
-- From the New York Daily Tribune obituary of Gustav Mahler
sch...@gefen.cc.biu.ac.il
: Bloom wrote
: "If you could only have one recording of each of Mahler's symphonies,
: which would you choose?"
:
: #1 - Giulini/CSO/EMI; Walter/ColSO/Sony
I take it that you were considering his question for large values of one.
sch...@gefen.cc.biu.ac.il
There is (or was) a recording available of a 1950 live Walter/NYPO performance,
which is probably my favorite Mahler 1st despite the trumpet flub near
the end.
B. Smith
Mehta 2nd Decca
Farberman 5th Vox
Karajan 9th DGG
Lopez-Cobos 9th Telarc
Ormandy 10th - OOP Sony/CBS
Brian
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:anoekm$j72$2...@news.iucc.ac.il:
> In article <3D9FB9C7...@iFreedom.com>, Your Pal Brian
> <brian...@ifreedom.com> wrote:
>
>: 4 Bruno Walter.
>
> Which one? He recorded it five times that I'm aware of. My favorite
> is the one he did in the 50's with an orchestra from Frankfurt.
> Despite the scrappiness of the orchestra, I think that Walter really
> nails the piece. As a certain rmcr frequent flyer once put it (I
> can't reveal his name because this was in a private email), "It's like
> Mengelberg on Prozac."
I've heard seven (this list cribbed from one of my earlier posts):
Halban, Desi; New York Philharmonic; Sony SMK 64450; r.45/05/10
Halban; Boston Symphony Orchestra; Dante Lys 315; r.47/03/25
Seefried, Irmgard; Wiener Philharmoniker; MCA MCAD-42337; r.50/08/24
Schwarzkopf, Elisabeth; Concertgebouw Orkest; Globe GLO 6900; r.52/06/06
Stader, Maria; Orchestre National de France; Nuova Era 2233; r.55/05/12
Güden, Hilda; Wiener Philharmoniker; DGG 435 334-2; r.55/11/06
Schwarzkopf; Wiener Philharmoniker; Music and Arts CD-705; r.60/05/29
When was the Frankfurt performance, who was the soprano, and how issued?
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Top 3 worst UK exports: Mad-cow; Foot-and-mouth; Charlotte Church
Fabulutz
Kevbo's picks:
1. Tilson-Thomas
2. Kaplan
3. Bernstein (DG)
4. Reiner
5. Bernstein (Sony)
6. Tilson-Thomas or Boulez
7. Boulez
8. Solti
9. Karajan or Walter
10. Rattle
Das Lied... Klemperor or Boulez
FWIW
Mark Perlman
2. Rattle
3. Inbal
4. Walter for mvts I - III,
but mvt IV by Maazel (with Kathleen Battle)
5. Bernstein (Sony)
6. Sinopoli
7. Horenstein
8. Bernstein
Das Lied... Walter VPO with Ferrier
9. Karajan
10. Rattle
Yukihiro Kato
1 Abbado/CSO/DG
Kubelik/Bavarian RSO/Audite(Live)
2 Abbado/CSO/DG
Bernstein/NYP/DG
3 Abbado/VPO/DG
Bernstein/NYP/DG
4 Abbado/VPO/DG
5 Kubelik/Bavarian RSO/Audite(Live)
6 Tennstedt/LPO/EMI(Live)
7 Kubelik/Bavarian RSO/Audite(Live)
8 Tennstedt/LPO/EMI
9 Bernstein/BPO/DG
Karajan/BPO/DG(Live)
Das Lied ... Boulez/VPO/DG
Klemperer/PO/EMI
Yukihiro Kato
http://homepage1.nifty.com/classicalcd/
sch...@gefen.cc.biu.ac.il
: If you could only have one recording of each of Mahler's symphonies,
: which would you choose?
1: Walter/NYPO/1950 live (but if someone told me that I could only have
Kubelik or Walter/CSO, I wouldn't complain)
2: Walter/NYPO
3: Horenstein/LSO
4: Another toughie. Probably Szell/Raskin/Cleveland, but I'd regret
not having a Walter recording. On the other hand, if I took a Walter
recording (one of the live performaneces in preference to the studio
recording with Desi Halban), I'd probably miss the Szell recording. . .
5: Coin flip: either Walter/NYPO or Kubelik/BRSO
6: Probably von Karajan/Berlin, possibly Maazel/VPO
7: Bernstein/NYPO (aka Bernstein I)
8: Neumann/Czech Philharmonic
dLvdE: Ferrier/Patzak/Walter/VPO, but I could live with either
Miller/Haefliger/Walter or the 1939 Schuricht live ("Deutschland ueber
alles, Herr Schuricht") performance
9: Walter/CSO -- but don't make me only take one; there are lots of
nearly perfect recordings (including that one), but no perfect one that
I've heard
Nicolai P. Zwar
> "If you could only have one recording of each of Mahler's symphonies,
> which would you choose?"
Tricky. Not that easy. But if I'd have to pick right now:
No.1:
Boulez/CSO/DG
No.2: Probably Rattle/CBSO/EMI.
No.3: That's a little easier: Salonen/LAPO/Sony
No.4:
Undecided. Bernstein? Kubelik? Salonen? Probably
Bernstein/NYP/Sony.
No.5: The easiest one: Bernstein/VPO/DG
No.6: Boulez/VPO/DG (Also possible: Bernstein/VPO/DG)
No.7: Tilson Thomas/LSO/RCA
No.8: Either Solti/CSO/Decca or Sinopoli/PO/DG
No.9: Either Karajan/BPO/DG (1982 recording) or Boulez/CSO/DG
Right now, I'd take Karajan.
No.10: Rattle/BPO/EMI
Das Lied von der Erde: Right now, I'm very fond of Sinopoli's recording
of it, but it's probably not the one I would take if I could only take
one. Don't really know. Perhaps Klemperer?
--
Nicolai P. Zwar
"The justice system is a scandal. Mimes and murderers are coddled.
Victims are abused. As a vigilante, I can make only one conclusion: all
judges are mental perverts and communists. Thank you."
(Opus)
Heck51
"I take it that you were considering his question for large values of
one."
Right. LOL!! I am using "relativistic" values of "1"!!
really - I cannot limit myself to one and only listings - it would
probably be a different list tomorrow, or an hour from now. I have to
list the most frequent occupants of the top slots.
Cheers,
H
Marcus Maroney
> If you could only have one recording of each of Mahler's symphonies,
> which would you choose?
1: Mackerras or Mitropoulos/NYPO (M&A box)
2: Mehta/VPO or Klemperer/Concertgebouw
3: Sinopoli
4: Szell or Maazel
5: Gatti
6: Bernstein (Sony)
7: Tilson-Thomas
8: Sinopoli or Mitropoulos
DLVDE: Bernstein/Decca
9: Karajan I or Haitink
10: Chailly
Cheers,
Marcus Maroney
marcus....@yale.edu
Matthew B. Tepper
1 - Bernstein/Royal Concertgebouw O
Walter/Columbia SO
2 - Stokowski/LSO
Walter/VPO (1948)
3 - Horenstein/LSO
Horenstein/RAI Torino O (Rococo LPs; YES I have them)
4 - Flicka/Abbado/VPO
Halban/Walter/BSO (1947, Lys)
5 - Don't much care for the piece; only one I have is Levine/PO
6 - Horenstein/Stockholm PO
(Don't have any historical recording of this one)
7 - Really dislike the piece, but I do own one of each category:
Levine/CSO
Horenstein/New Philharmonia O
8 - Solti/CSO
Stokowski/NYP-SO or Horenstein/LSO (can't choose!)
9 - Solti/CSO
Walter/VPO (couldn't choose among the five Horensteins)
DLVDE - Haitink/Royal Concertgebouw O
Horenstein/BBC Northern SO (couldn't choose among five Walters)
10 (Cooke) Martinon/CSO (new favorite)
Ormandy/PO
David7Gable
You greatly prefer this to the studio recording? I prefer the studio recording
with Halban to the other live Walter 4th's I've heard.>7 -
> 7 - Really dislike the piece
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! All I can say is
I love it probably as much as any piece of music I know. I also consider it a
demonstration of contrapuntal genius more or less in a league with any Mass by
Dufay, Ockeghem, or Josquin, your average Bach piece, certain movements from
the late Beethoven sonatas and quartets, Falstaff, and the last movement of Pli
selon pli.
-david gable
Bloom
>
>Mahler 7
>
>My favorite is a non-existent Boulez recording along the lines of his savagely
>expressionistic first recording of Berg's Op. 6. Also like Maderna (despite
>terrible orchestral playing), Kubelik live (Audite), and Kubelik/DGG
>
Non-existent? Does that mean it's a recording that Boulez hasn't made
but which you envision him being able to make (or, more likely, a
recording he could have made earlier in his career but never got
around to)? And what do you think of the existing recording Boulez
has made for DG (with the Cleveland Orchestra, I believe)? I'm
thinking about having that be my first exposure to both Mahler's
Seventh as well as Boulez conducting Mahler.
Bloom
wrote:
>10 (Cooke) Martinon/CSO (new favorite)
> Ormandy/PO
This is something I've been curious about for awhile. How many
"completions" of Mahler's Tenth are out there, and which one is the
preferred version? I assume it's the Deryck Cooke version you mention
above, as it's the one I've seen most frequently, but I've also seen a
lot of others. Thoughts?
Your Pal Brian
And for 9 I forgot about Walter's Vienna version from 1938 on EMI.
Brian
HenryFogel
>From: "Matthew B. Tepper"
>
>One "modern," one "historical" (regardless of mono/stereo) each:
>
>1 - Bernstein/Royal Concertgebouw O
> Walter/Columbia SO
Agree with the Bernstein, but would prefer the Mitropoulos to Walter. Also not
sure of Horenstein's LSO recording qualifies as "historic" - if it does, that's
my choice even over Mitropoulos.
>
>2 - Stokowski/LSO
> Walter/VPO (1948)
Bernstein/NYP [2nd one for DG, though the 1st one is very close]
Must take the Oskar Fried for the historic one because of its insights into a
lost performance style, and its effectiveness. An alternative historic version
for me would be Scherchen's Westminster 1958 set.
>
>3 - Horenstein/LSO
> Horenstein/RAI Torino O (Rococo LPs; YES I have them)
Agree with Horenstein/LSO - but for historic would take Mitropoulos/Cologne
Radio Orch (Cetra LPs)
>
>4 - Flicka/Abbado/VPO
> Halban/Walter/BSO (1947, Lys)
Modern - Horenstein/Margaret Price
Historic - Mengelberg/Jo Vincent
>
>5 - Don't much care for the piece; only one I have is Levine/PO
Modern - Inoue/Royal Phil (on their own label - a gorgeous performance)
Historic - Mitropoulos, New York Phil (issued by them and on M&A)
>
>6 - Horenstein/Stockholm PO
> (Don't have any historical recording of this one)
Barbirolli, Philharmonia -- for me this one covers both modern and historic. If
one wants another "historic" choice - either of Mitropoulos' (New York Phil,
issued by them, or Cologne Radio in Music & Arts Mahler/Mitropoulos set)
>
>7 - Really dislike the piece, but I do own one of each category:
> Levine/CSO
> Horenstein/New Philharmonia O
Can't argue with either, though I can make a case for Gielen's incisive
performance with the SWGerman Radio Orch
>8 - Solti/CSO
> Stokowski/NYP-SO or Horenstein/LSO (can't choose!)
Can't disagree at all
>
>9 - Solti/CSO
> Walter/VPO (couldn't choose among the five Horensteins)
>
Bernstein/Concertgebouw Orch
can't choose between Horenstein/LSO (BBC Legends) and Walter VPO
>
>10 (Cooke) Martinon/CSO (new favorite)
> Ormandy/PO
Agreed
Henry Fogel
Dave Cook
> This is something I've been curious about for awhile. How many
> "completions" of Mahler's Tenth are out there, and which one is the
> preferred version? I assume it's the Deryck Cooke version you mention
> above, as it's the one I've seen most frequently, but I've also seen a
> lot of others. Thoughts?
The Ormandy (and probably that Martinon) used the first Cooke completion
(Cooke I). Most performances now use Cooke's second completion (Cooke II),
and many conductors (e.g. Rattle) add their own modifications to this. There
is a completion by Wheeler (recorded by the Colorado Mahlerfest) and a
completion by Mazetti (recorded by Slatkin) which Mazetti has revised
(recorded by Lopez-Cobos). There are probably several others floating
around.
Dave Cook
Eric Nagamine
The Martinon/CSO recording is of Cooke I, but is only available in one
of the CSO big box sets.
Clinton Carpenter's version has just been issued by Delos with Litton
and the DSO on a very well recorded disc. A much superior reading than
the Farberman/Philharmonia Hungarica version on the obscure Golden
String label, though the clarity of the Delos recording makes one wish
that the DSO had a few more desks of string players.
The Joe Wheeler version has been recorded twice. Both by Robert Olson.
The first is a "live" Colorado Mahlerfest recording available directly
from their website & Naxos has recently issued a recording with one of
the Polish bands.
There are also versions by Barshai and Samale, both of which don't have
commercial recordings.
--
-----------
Aloha and Mahalo,
Eric Nagamine
Jan Depondt
"Dave Cook" <dav...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:slrnaq12u9...@localhost.localdomain...
| There are probably several others floating around.
|
Like Barshai. Is his recording available already?
--
Jan Depondt
____________________________
mail: jdptATwanadoo.nl
Brian Park
news:20021006143222...@mb-mk.aol.com...
> >Subject: Re: The best Mahler symphonies
> >From: "Matthew B. Tepper"
>
> Modern - Inoue/Royal Phil (on their own label - a gorgeous performance)
This recording is impossible to find right now. If it has surfaced anywhere
in the world, please let me know as I would love to hear since it has been
praised to the skies by people in this newsgroup whose opinions I value
highly.
Brian Park
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:20021006134834...@mb-bj.aol.com:
>> [4.] Halban/Walter/BSO (1947, Lys)
>
> You greatly prefer this to the studio recording? I prefer the studio
> recording with Halban to the other live Walter 4th's I've heard.
Yes! The sound is not as good, and there are a few tiny mishaps, but
listen to Koussevitzky's fiddles dig in with their wonderful tone!
If there is ever another BSO live performance box, it ought at least to
have this performance, as well as Koussevitzky's Sibelius 5th. I only
hope the geniuses who produced that box don't delay and delay and delay
and delay and delay and delay as they did with the first one.
>> 7 - Really dislike the piece
>
> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! All I
> can say is I love it probably as much as any piece of music I know. I
> also consider it a demonstration of contrapuntal genius more or less
> in a league with any Mass by Dufay, Ockeghem, or Josquin, your average
> Bach piece, certain movements from the late Beethoven sonatas and
> quartets, Falstaff, and the last movement of Pli selon pli.
Nice (think Charles Ives' use of the word here!) counterpoint does not
for me a masterwork make, if the substance and structure aren't there ...
and I've never heard them, to my ear, in the Mahler 7th. It strikes me
as an inchoate mass of mucous. Sorry.
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:anq7s...@enews1.newsguy.com:
So what you're saying is, in no way have you been able to find it?
Matthew B. Tepper
following letters to be typed in news:3DA08096...@iFreedom.com:
> I just meant the standard general issue commercial one; Sony NY Phil.
So there isn't a Frankfurt that I have to find now? Just checking.
> And for 9 I forgot about Walter's Vienna version from 1938 on EMI.
Even though it's been majorly hurwitzed here? ;--)
Matthew B. Tepper
own opinions. I'll just add some observations of my own.
henry...@aol.com (HenryFogel) appears to have caused the following
letters to be typed in news:20021006143222...@mb-mk.aol.com:
>>Subject: Re: The best Mahler symphonies
>>From: "Matthew B. Tepper"
>
>>
>>One "modern," one "historical" (regardless of mono/stereo) each:
>>
>>1 - Bernstein/Royal Concertgebouw O
>> Walter/Columbia SO
>
> Agree with the Bernstein, but would prefer the Mitropoulos to Walter.
> Also not sure of Horenstein's LSO recording qualifies as "historic" -
> if it does, that's my choice even over Mitropoulos.
I waffled toward selecting those two as well, before settling (uneasily)
on my choices. I certainly wouldn't argue with you on either account!
The Mitropoulos, by the way, was recorded in a building I know all too
well, Northrup Auditorium at the University of Minnesota, Minneapolis.
>>2 - Stokowski/LSO
>> Walter/VPO (1948)
>
> Bernstein/NYP [2nd one for DG, though the 1st one is very close]
>
> Must take the Oskar Fried for the historic one because of its insights
> into a lost performance style, and its effectiveness. An alternative
> historic version for me would be Scherchen's Westminster 1958 set.
I kicked around selecting Abbado/CSO just to be different, or maybe Solti
with the same orchestra. (I note your characteristic fairness in that
you haven't "swept the board" here with all Chicago Symphony recordings!)
I had also thought about listing the Fried, and the pioneering electric,
Ormandy/Minneapolis (also Northrup Auditorium). If I'd wanted to be
silly, I might have put down Stokowski/Philadelphia O, though I haven't
heard that in decades and don't know if it has had any issue since it was
in a 3-LP box on the Penzance label with that conductor's New York 8th.
>>3 - Horenstein/LSO
>> Horenstein/RAI Torino O (Rococo LPs; YES I have them)
>
> Agree with Horenstein/LSO - but for historic would take
> Mitropoulos/Cologne Radio Orch (Cetra LPs)
I really ought to hear more of the Greek conductor's Mahler. I *have*
heard his 8th (during a rest stop at some friends' large house in Wilmot,
Wisconsin while on the road to Washington DC in 1974), but it was the
terrible Everest LP and I don't think I should really judge from that.
>>4 - Flicka/Abbado/VPO
>> Halban/Walter/BSO (1947, Lys)
>
> Modern - Horenstein/Margaret Price
> Historic - Mengelberg/Jo Vincent
I unswervingly admire all of Horenstein's stereo commercial Mahler discs,
except for this one. He lets the rhythm waver too much (double basses
and horns come annoyingly unglued from one another fairly soon into the
first movement), and the slow movement fails to move me nearly as much.
Mengelberg to me is the epitome of freedom and mercurial quick-change
tempi in this piece -- a plus for me, I may add -- and the portamenti are
masterful; but Jo Vincent's hard tone sinks the finale dead as a stone.
I have never liked this singer at all.
>>5 - Don't much care for the piece; only one I have is Levine/PO
>
> Modern - Inoue/Royal Phil (on their own label - a gorgeous
> performance)
> Historic - Mitropoulos, New York Phil (issued by them and on M&A)
Never heard Inoue. If he recorded the 4th, it would be interesting to
compare with Konoye. ;--)
>>6 - Horenstein/Stockholm PO
>> (Don't have any historical recording of this one)
>
> Barbirolli, Philharmonia -- for me this one covers both modern and
> historic. If one wants another "historic" choice - either of
> Mitropoulos' (New York Phil, issued by them, or Cologne Radio in Music
> & Arts Mahler/Mitropoulos set)
Noted for further exploration. I do have the Gielen, but I really bought
it for one of the couplings, the Schubert "10th" slow movement. ;--)
>>7 - Really dislike the piece, but I do own one of each category:
>> Levine/CSO
>> Horenstein/New Philharmonia O
>
> Can't argue with either, though I can make a case for Gielen's
> incisive performance with the SWGerman Radio Orch
Gielen didn't really move me in the 6th, so I don't know what I could
expect here.
>>8 - Solti/CSO
>> Stokowski/NYP-SO or Horenstein/LSO (can't choose!)
>
> Can't disagree at all
>
>>
>>9 - Solti/CSO
>> Walter/VPO (couldn't choose among the five Horensteins)
>>
> Bernstein/Concertgebouw Orch
> can't choose between Horenstein/LSO (BBC Legends) and Walter VPO
Two of the Horensteins are on my "to be listened to" shelf right now, the
BBC Legends and the Vox. Also on the shelf is Bernstein's VPO DVD, which
I eagerly bought from a fellow newsgroup member last year but somehow
haven't gotten around to hearing yet.
>>10 (Cooke) Martinon/CSO (new favorite)
>> Ormandy/PO
>
> Agreed
Nice "chatting" with you!
> Henry Fogel
Incidentally I'm listening to a CSO recording of Berlioz right now, the
orchestral bits from "Roméo et Juliette" conducted by Giulini on an EMI
Double fforte (with Cluytens' "L'enfance du Christ"). I had seen this
item on eBay and bid what I thought was a decent used price for it, since
recent newsgroup discussions had persuaded me that I ought to hear it.
However, a couple of idiots soon bid it up well past what it would have
cost new, and I had to see it for several days every time I looked at the
"My eBay" page. Then yesterday I made a chance visit to Amoeba Music (a
friend was too ill to go to see "This is Cinerama" playing at, of all
places, the Cinerama Dome, so I used his ticket; and Amoeba is just
across the street), and bought it for $9.95 plus tax. ;--) Roméo is
dying right now.
Marc Perman
>
> Modern - Inoue/Royal Phil (on their own label - a gorgeous
performance)
Finally a mention of Inoue in this thread! His 4th is also
superb, and 6th nearly so.
Memo to Klaus Heymann: Please hire Inoue to record a new Mahler
cycle for Naxos. Thank you.
Marc Perman
Simon Roberts
"Bloom" <wqm...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6kptpu07qnkn78ka8...@4ax.com...
> If you could only have one recording of each of Mahler's symphonies,
> Mahler symphony cycle?
I couldn't possibly narrow it down to one for some of them, and won't
even try; others are a bit easier....
1. Kubelik/DG, maybe (though I've rather lost interest in the piece and
only ever seem to end up listening to it when culling....)
2. Bernstein/NYPO/Sony; Ozawa/Sony; Solti/LSO
3. Sinopoli/DG
4. Walter/NYPO (live or studio); Gatti/Conifer; Abravanel/Vanguard,
Mengelberg
5. Morris/IMP; Gatti/Conifer; Scherchen/ORTF (adagietto only)
6. Barbirolli/EMI; Bernstein/DG; Solti/Decca
7. Gielen/Intercord
8. Sinopoli/DG
9. Karajan II/DG; Sanderling/BBC; Maderna/Arkadia; Klemperer/EMI;
Bernstein/DG (either) and....
10. Wigglesworth/BBC; Sanderling/Berlin Classics
Das Lied. Klemperer/EMI; Jochum/DG; Walter 1936; Schuricht; Bertini/EMI
and....
Simon
Brian Park
news:Xns929F93CCC50...@216.148.53.82...
> >>
> >> Modern - Inoue/Royal Phil (on their own label - a gorgeous
> >> performance)
> >
> >
> > This recording is impossible to find right now. If it has surfaced
> > anywhere in the world, please let me know as I would love to hear
> > since it has been praised to the skies by people in this newsgroup
> > whose opinions I value highly.
>
> So what you're saying is, in no way have you been able to find it?
>
Exactly.
Brian Park
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:5o4o9.40381$YI.89...@twister.nyc.rr.com:
C&C warning (put down the coffee, gently push the cat from your lap).
I suspect he'll do it only if he feels it will compete in no way vit
their last cycle.
quackquackquackquackquackquack (waddling away real fast)
Your Pal Brian
> > And for 9 I forgot about Walter's Vienna version from 1938 on EMI.
>
> Even though it's been majorly hurwitzed here? ;--)
I consider that a plus. (Heh heh.)
Brian
sch...@gefen.cc.biu.ac.il
: One "modern," one "historical" (regardless of mono/stereo) each:
: 2 - Stokowski/LSO
: Walter/VPO (1948)
David Hurwitz will be mad at you -- the VPO brass has several fumbles in
that performance (not that I dislike it myself, mind you).
: 3 - Horenstein/LSO
: Horenstein/RAI Torino O (Rococo LPs; YES I have them)
What? No F. Charles Adler? (the F. Charles Adler is now available on Tahra,
unfortunately, without Ilona Steingruber's "Lieder aus der Jugendzeit" that
was the sixth side of the records)
: 5 - Don't much care for the piece; only one I have is Levine/PO
#5 is probably my least favorite of the Mahler symphonies. The most persuasive
cases for it that I know of are (modern) Kubelik/BRSO and (historical)
Walter/NYPO.
: 7 - Really dislike the piece, but I do own one of each category:
: Levine/CSO
: Horenstein/New Philharmonia O
You poor baby. The Levine/CSO is one of the biggest disappointments of my
record collection. It won all these awards, and Levine revealed himself to
be completely clueless. Stick with the classics -- Bernstein I.
: DLVDE - Haitink/Royal Concertgebouw O
: Horenstein/BBC Northern SO (couldn't choose among five Walters)
Which is the fifth Walter? I have the Thorborg/Kullman/VPO; the
Ferrier/Patzak/VPO; the Ferrier/Svanholm/NYPO; and the Miller/Haefliger/CSO.
sch...@gefen.cc.biu.ac.il
: I've heard seven [Walter Mahler 4ths] (this list cribbed from one of my
: earlier posts):
: Halban, Desi; New York Philharmonic; Sony SMK 64450; r.45/05/10
: Halban; Boston Symphony Orchestra; Dante Lys 315; r.47/03/25
: Seefried, Irmgard; Wiener Philharmoniker; MCA MCAD-42337; r.50/08/24
: Schwarzkopf, Elisabeth; Concertgebouw Orkest; Globe GLO 6900; r.52/06/06
: Stader, Maria; Orchestre National de France; Nuova Era 2233; r.55/05/12
: G?den, Hilda; Wiener Philharmoniker; DGG 435 334-2; r.55/11/06
: Schwarzkopf; Wiener Philharmoniker; Music and Arts CD-705; r.60/05/29
: When was the Frankfurt performance, who was the soprano, and how issued?
The performance was 4 September 1950 with the Stadtisches Opernhaus- und
Museumsorchester of Frankfurt with Annelies Kupper, soprano. It was
available once upon a time from BRO on the Green Hill label (GH-0001).
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
It's a bird, it's a plane -- no, it's Mozart. . .
sch...@gefen.cc.biu.ac.il
recordings" thread. One thread I haven't seen are "which Mahler symphony
recordings are, in your opinion, complete disasters that should never
have been let out of the studio." So I'll give my nominations and see if
anyone cares to add to them.
1 - Kondrashin
4 - Rozhdestvensky (the old Melodiya recording -- what a hoot)
5 - Barbirolli
7 - Levine
Note that this list does *not* include performances that I happen not to
like but are worth hearing for their historical or other merit (e.g.
Mengelberg's 4th, the Klemperer Lied von der Erde).
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
David7Gable
>for me a masterwork make
It does for me! Except that nice is not a word I apply to artworks I like, but
if I thought something was an inchoate mass of mucous, I certainly wouldn't
consider it a demonstration of contrapuntal genius.
-david gable
David7Gable
You got it. He hasn't made it. It doesn't exist.
>more likely, a
>recording he could have made earlier in his career but never got
>around to
More likely a recording he could have made earlier in his career but never got
around to. I'm not sure he could have given the performance I have in mind
after 1970, but I know plenty of performances from the 60's of the type I have
in mind.
>And what do you think of the existing recording Boulez
>has made for DG (with the Cleveland Orchestra, I believe)
Haven't heard it, and I am terribly sorry to have to admit that I seriously
doubt I would like it on the basis of the DGG Mahler recordings with Boulez I
have heard. It would have to be a great departure from the others for me to be
convinced by it--a departure the savagely expressionistic first movement of the
7th arguably needs even more than all the rest of Mahler.
> I'm
>thinking about having that be my first exposure to both Mahler's
>Seventh as well as Boulez conducting Mahler.
Just my opinion, but I think it's a bad idea.
-david gable
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:anr6ak$lnn$2...@news.iucc.ac.il:
> In article <Xns929EE5F9AE9...@216.148.53.100>, Matthew B.
> Tepper <oy兀earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>: I've heard seven [Walter Mahler 4ths] (this list cribbed from one of
>: my
>
>: earlier posts):
>
>: Halban, Desi; New York Philharmonic; Sony SMK 64450; r.45/05/10
>: Halban; Boston Symphony Orchestra; Dante Lys 315; r.47/03/25
>: Seefried, Irmgard; Wiener Philharmoniker; MCA MCAD-42337; r.50/08/24
>: Schwarzkopf, Elisabeth; Concertgebouw Orkest; Globe GLO 6900;
>: r.52/06/06
>: Stader, Maria; Orchestre National de France; Nuova Era 2233;
>: r.55/05/12 G?den, Hilda; Wiener Philharmoniker; DGG 435 334-2;
>: r.55/11/06 Schwarzkopf; Wiener Philharmoniker; Music and Arts CD-705;
>: r.60/05/29
>
>: When was the Frankfurt performance, who was the soprano, and how
>: issued?
>
> The performance was 4 September 1950 with the Stadtisches Opernhaus-
> und Museumsorchester of Frankfurt with Annelies Kupper, soprano. It
> was available once upon a time from BRO on the Green Hill label
> (GH-0001).
Thank you, now I have a new quest!
Matthew B. Tepper
> In article <Xns929F6732CD8...@216.148.53.99>, Matthew B.
> Tepper <oyþ@earthlink.net> wrote:
>: One "modern," one "historical" (regardless of mono/stereo) each:
>
>: 2 - Stokowski/LSO
>: Walter/VPO (1948)
>
> David Hurwitz will be mad at you -- the VPO brass has several fumbles
> in that performance (not that I dislike it myself, mind you).
>
>: 3 - Horenstein/LSO
>: Horenstein/RAI Torino O (Rococo LPs; YES I have them)
>
> What? No F. Charles Adler? (the F. Charles Adler is now available on
> Tahra, unfortunately, without Ilona Steingruber's "Lieder aus der
> Jugendzeit" that was the sixth side of the records)
Life is too short for listening to potentially-mediocre Mahler. ;--)
>: 5 - Don't much care for the piece; only one I have is Levine/PO
>
> #5 is probably my least favorite of the Mahler symphonies. The most
> persuasive cases for it that I know of are (modern) Kubelik/BRSO and
> (historical) Walter/NYPO.
>
>: 7 - Really dislike the piece, but I do own one of each category:
>: Levine/CSO
>: Horenstein/New Philharmonia O
>
> You poor baby. The Levine/CSO is one of the biggest disappointments of
> my record collection. It won all these awards, and Levine revealed
> himself to be completely clueless. Stick with the classics --
> Bernstein I.
Maybe I should at least give it a listen.
>: DLVDE - Haitink/Royal Concertgebouw O
>: Horenstein/BBC Northern SO (couldn't choose among five Walters)
>
> Which is the fifth Walter? I have the Thorborg/Kullman/VPO; the
> Ferrier/Patzak/VPO; the Ferrier/Svanholm/NYPO; and the
> Miller/Haefliger/CSO.
Thorborg, Kullman, VPO, 24 May 1936
Ferrier, Patzak, VPO, 14-16 May 1952
Nikolaidi, Svanholm, NYP-SO, 22 February 1953, on Seven Seas KICC 2075
Forrester, Lewis, NYP-SO, 16 April 1960
Miller, Häfliger, NYP-SO, 18 & 25 April 1960
dfotios
It is a pity that Cetras' cds do not have good sound quality.
However all Mitropoulos performances there (1,3,5,6,8,9,10) are
electrifying!
Though, for the 6th, I prefer the -slowish in part I but- majestic
Barbirolli's/PO
dfotios
"HenryFogel" <henry...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021006143222...@mb-mk.aol.com...
Eric Nagamine
>
> : 7 - Really dislike the piece, but I do own one of each category:
> : Levine/CSO
> : Horenstein/New Philharmonia O
>
> You poor baby. The Levine/CSO is one of the biggest disappointments of my
> record collection. It won all these awards, and Levine revealed himself to
> be completely clueless. Stick with the classics -- Bernstein I.
Out of curiosity, what do you find so clueless about Levine's reading as
I think it's one of the better ones out there. Admittedly, on LP the
recording sucked big time, but the CD issues have redressed alot of the
balance problems. I learned the 7th from Bernstein I, but I've never
really enjoyed it, finding it too over driven, with the NY Phil in less
than great shape and the Columbia recording colorless. In general I
think the DG remake has a similar reading with more alert & interesting
playing from the orchestra. As far as the Levine, I think he's strongest
in the 1st four movements, highlighting the great orchestration and the
mood of the work. In the 3rd movement i think Levine really brings out
the phantasmagorical aspects brilliantly. It's been awhile since I
listened to the Levine with a score, but I don't recall anything really
wayout from what's in the CE score.
sch...@gefen.cc.biu.ac.il
:>: DLVDE (couldn't choose among five Walters)
:> Which is the fifth Walter? I have the Thorborg/Kullman/VPO; the
:> Ferrier/Patzak/VPO; the Ferrier/Svanholm/NYPO; and the
:> Miller/Haefliger/CSO.
: Thorborg, Kullman, VPO, 24 May 1936
: Ferrier, Patzak, VPO, 14-16 May 1952
: Nikolaidi, Svanholm, NYP-SO, 22 February 1953, on Seven Seas KICC 2075
: Forrester, Lewis, NYP-SO, 16 April 1960
: Miller, H?fliger, NYP-SO, 18 & 25 April 1960
Umm, that makes 6. The Ferrier/Svanholm/NYPO is a live performance from 1948
available from Naxos Historical. How are the Nikolaidi/Svanholm and
Forrester/Lewis? Of the four I have, Svanholm is far and away the weakest
of the tenors. I can't believe that he would have been much better
five years later.
sch...@gefen.cc.biu.ac.il
: sch...@gefen.cc.biu.ac.il wrote:
:> You poor baby. The Levine/CSO is one of the biggest disappointments of my
:> record collection. It won all these awards, and Levine revealed himself to
:> be completely clueless. Stick with the classics -- Bernstein I.
:
: Out of curiosity, what do you find so clueless about Levine's reading as
: I think it's one of the better ones out there. Admittedly, on LP the
: recording sucked big time, but the CD issues have redressed alot of the
: balance problems.
If you follow the recording with the score, you will find that there are
lots of instructions for instruments playing inner voices that Levine
simply ignores. Like it or not, there is something to the criticism that
7th is "Kapellmeistermusik." That's probably why I like Bernstein I -- he's
always on top of things.
: I learned the 7th from Bernstein I, but I've never really enjoyed it,
: finding it too over driven, with the NY Phil in less
: than great shape and the Columbia recording colorless.
What you find "overdriven" I find "driven." As I have put it before, the major
compositional problem with Mahler's 7th is that he had a particular structure
in mind that required a 20 minute long finale for which, unfortunately, he
only had 10 minutes' worth of music. The genius of Bernstein I is that he
only makes it sound 5 minutes too long rather than 10.
: As far as the Levine, I think he's strongest
: in the 1st four movements, highlighting the great orchestration and the
: mood of the work.
I felt that he more or less ignored the great orchestration. What he had
was a great orchestra, which can hide a multitude of sins.
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"You go on playing Bach your way, and I'll go on playing him *his* way."
-- Wanda Landowska
sch...@gefen.cc.biu.ac.il
:> The performance was 4 September 1950 with the Stadtisches Opernhaus-
:> und Museumsorchester of Frankfurt with Annelies Kupper, soprano. It
:> was available once upon a time from BRO on the Green Hill label
:> (GH-0001).
:
: Thank you, now I have a new quest!
According to a check I did this morning, it's still available at BRO.
Now. . . what is the capital of Assyria?
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
sch...@gefen.cc.biu.ac.il
:>: 3 - Horenstein/LSO
:>: Horenstein/RAI Torino O (Rococo LPs; YES I have them)
:>
:> What? No F. Charles Adler? (the F. Charles Adler is now available on
:> Tahra, unfortunately, without Ilona Steingruber's "Lieder aus der
:> Jugendzeit" that was the sixth side of the records)
:
: Life is too short for listening to potentially-mediocre Mahler. ;--)
I guess it's a sentimental thing with me -- I learned Mahler's 3d from
that recording, which at the time was the only one in the Carnegie Library
Music Room.
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
Gerrit Stolte
wrote:
>About once a month, we have a "what are your favorite Mahler symphonies
>recordings" thread. One thread I haven't seen are "which Mahler symphony
>recordings are, in your opinion, complete disasters that should never
>have been let out of the studio." So I'll give my nominations and see if
>anyone cares to add to them.
>
>1 - Kondrashin
>
>4 - Rozhdestvensky (the old Melodiya recording -- what a hoot)
>
>5 - Barbirolli
>
>7 - Levine
Solti's 2nd and 3rd are both way too much for me. The orchestral
playing is certainly sensational and should probably be experienced
for that alone, but I've never warmed to Solti's approach and
interpretation.
Gerrit
Bob Harper
I've never heard Kondrashin's recording of the Mahler 1, but the
greatest performance of the work I ever heard was Kondrashin/CSO at
Ravinia in the early '70s. In the notes to the Kondrashin Mahler 7 on
Tahra, mention is made of the existence of a live recording made at
Kondrashin's last concert (with the NDR of Hamburg, but at the
Concertgebouw)--that I'd like to hear.
Mr. Schultz has frequently made his dislike of Barbirolli's Mahler 5
clear. Many of us don't agree.
Bob Harper
Matthew B. Tepper
> In article <Xns929FF270184...@216.148.53.81>, Matthew B.
> Tepper <oy兀earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>:>: 3 - Horenstein/LSO
>:>: Horenstein/RAI Torino O (Rococo LPs; YES I have them)
>:>
>:> What? No F. Charles Adler? (the F. Charles Adler is now available
>:> on Tahra, unfortunately, without Ilona Steingruber's "Lieder aus der
>:> Jugendzeit" that was the sixth side of the records)
>:
>: Life is too short for listening to potentially-mediocre Mahler. ;--)
>
> I guess it's a sentimental thing with me -- I learned Mahler's 3d from
> that recording, which at the time was the only one in the Carnegie
> Library Music Room.
I'll bet that, by the same token, there are some people who would love to
have CDs of Flipse's 6th and 8th. ;--)
Matthew B. Tepper
> In article <Xns929FF270CA...@216.148.53.81>, Matthew B.
> Tepper <oy兀earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>:> The performance was 4 September 1950 with the Stadtisches Opernhaus-
>:> und Museumsorchester of Frankfurt with Annelies Kupper, soprano. It
>:> was available once upon a time from BRO on the Green Hill label
>:> (GH-0001).
>:
>: Thank you, now I have a new quest!
>
> According to a check I did this morning, it's still available at BRO.
> Now. . . what is the capital of Assyria?
Green. No, blue. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
Barry Zukerman
> "Bloom" <wqm...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:6kptpu07qnkn78ka8...@4ax.com...
> > If you could only have one recording of each of Mahler's symphonies,
> > which would you choose? In other words, what would be your ideal
> > Mahler symphony cycle?
>
> I couldn't possibly narrow it down to one for some of them, and won't
> even try; others are a bit easier....
>
1: Bernstein (either Sony or DG...love them both)
2: Bernstein (NY Phil on Sony)
3: Horenstein/LSO
4: Mengelberg (not crazy about this symphony, but this recording just
about makes me like it)
5: Bernstein/VPO
6: Bernstein/VPO or Barbirolli
7: Klemerer (or Bernstein on Sony if I want it more straight up)
8: Tennstedt
9: My favorite is a live Tennstedt/Philadelphia Orchestra performance
I got from Parnassus, but of more easily available and standard priced
releases, I like Barbirolli and Sinopoli
Barry
Roland van Gaalen
news:anr6m4$lnn$3...@news.iucc.ac.il...
> [...] One thread I haven't seen are "which Mahler symphony
> recordings are, in your opinion, complete disasters that should never
> have been let out of the studio."
Such recordings, which presumably should be avoided at all cost, are
remarkable indeed.
I wonder which member of this forum has managed to collect the most
"complete disasters that should never have been let out of the studio" (by
any composer) and why.
--
Roland van Gaalen
Amsterdam
E-mail: R.P.vanGaalenATchello.nl (replace AT by @)
Simon Roberts
<SeeSig...@deadspam.com> wrote:
><sch...@gefen.cc.biu.ac.il> wrote in message
>news:anr6m4$lnn$3...@news.iucc.ac.il...
>> [...] One thread I haven't seen are "which Mahler symphony
>> recordings are, in your opinion, complete disasters that should never
>> have been let out of the studio."
>
>Such recordings, which presumably should be avoided at all cost, are
>remarkable indeed.
>
>I wonder which member of this forum has managed to collect the most
>"complete disasters that should never have been let out of the studio" (by
>any composer) and why.
I've bought a few based on positive reviews published in magazines.....
Simon
JRsnfld
:> What? No F. Charles Adler? (the F. Charles Adler is now available on
: Life is too short for listening to potentially-mediocre Mahler. ;--)
I guess it's a sentimental thing with me -- I learned Mahler's 3d from
that recording, >>
I think the Adler recording is worthwhile for many reasons, and I have no
sentimental associations with it. There are moments when he gets the tempo or
the phrasing or the balance just right and makes you wonder why other
conductors can't do it that way too.
--Jeff
Roland van Gaalen
I suspected as much, but I thought it would be rude to mention you by name.
Hence my rhetorical question!
But now that you have identified yourself, please proceed and provide
further detail!
Sacqueboutier
sch...@gefen.cc.biu.ac.il wrote on 10/7/02 1:39 AM:
> About once a month, we have a "what are your favorite Mahler symphonies
> recordings" thread. One thread I haven't seen are "which Mahler symphony
> recordings are, in your opinion, complete disasters that should never
> have been let out of the studio." So I'll give my nominations and see if
> anyone cares to add to them.
>
> 1 - Kondrashin
>
> 4 - Rozhdestvensky (the old Melodiya recording -- what a hoot)
>
> 5 - Barbirolli
>
> 7 - Levine
>
> Note that this list does *not* include performances that I happen not to
> like but are worth hearing for their historical or other merit (e.g.
> Mengelberg's 4th, the Klemperer Lied von der Erde).
1 Slatkin (boooooooooooooooooooooooooring!)
2 Slatkin (boooooooooooooooooooooooooring!)
3 Solti/CSO (he bulldozes his way through the first movement)
4 I don't have any that I don't like.
5 Rhozdestvinsky
6 Abbado (a mere run-through with a great orchestra)
7 Solti (this is far worse than Levine)
8 Don't know (I don't really like this piece very much.)
9 I don't have any that I don't like.
--
Don Patterson
DCP Music Printing
Professional Music Copy
and Arrangements
don...@olg.com
"Sometimes I wonder. We are told that the little things
in life are what make life worth living. Then we are
told, "Don't sweat the small stuff". Does this mean that
if the little things in life don't happen, and we don't
'sweat it', life is not worth living?"
Sacqueboutier
at bzuk...@phillynews.com wrote on 10/7/02 1:18 PM:
> "Simon Roberts" <sd...@pobox.upenn.edu> wrote in message
> news:<anqmc1$bpi$1...@netnews.upenn.edu>...
>> "Bloom" <wqm...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:6kptpu07qnkn78ka8...@4ax.com...
>>> If you could only have one recording of each of Mahler's symphonies,
>>> which would you choose? In other words, what would be your ideal
>>> Mahler symphony cycle?
>>
>> I couldn't possibly narrow it down to one for some of them, and won't
>> even try; others are a bit easier....
1 Bernstein/Concertbebouw on DGG
Mitropoulos/Minnesota on Sony
2 Bernstein/NYP on Sony
Walter/NYP on Sony
3 Bernstein/NYP on DGG (but I'm quickly warming up to the Bertini!!!!)
Horenstein/LSO on Unicorn
4 Gatti on RCA
Mengelberg/Concertgebouw on Philips
5 Abbado/CSO on DGG
No historical here.
6 Bernstein/NYP on Sony
7 Abbado/CSO on DGG
Horenstein on Descant (or whatever else it's on)
8 Solti/CSO on Decca
Bernstein on Sony
9 Bernstein/Concertgebouw on DGG
Karajan/BPO on DGG
Walter/VPO on EMI
Simon Roberts
<SeeSig...@deadspam.com> wrote:
>"Simon Roberts" <sd...@pobox.upenn.edu> wrote in message
>>
>>
>
>I suspected as much, but I thought it would be rude to mention you by name.
>Hence my rhetorical question!
Your good manners are appreciated, as always....
>
>But now that you have identified yourself, please proceed and provide
>further detail!
One I won't quickly forget, and that I've often mentioned, is Thomas
Sanderling's set of Brahms symphonies, praised to the skies (which doesn't
much bother me) and completely misdescribed (which does) by Michael
Jameson in Fanfare. Thielemann's Beethoven 5/7 and Abbado's latest
Beethoven set may qualify (there are doubtless other candidates I can't
remember at the moment).
Simon
Roland van Gaalen
> recordings" thread. One thread I haven't seen are "which Mahler symphony
> recordings are, in your opinion, complete disasters that should never
> have been let out of the studio." So I'll give my nominations and see if
> anyone cares to add to them.
The following aren't even interesting, but I'll mention them anyway -- in
the spirit of this thread! -- so that everybody knows what to avoid!
Avoid: Klemperer / Mahler 4 / Philharmonia -- simply unromantic in the
negative sense of the word
Avoid: Bernstein / Mahler 5 / Vienna Philh -- distastefully sentimental, in
a word: phoney
Avoid: Haitink / Mahler 5 [iv : adagietto] / Berlin Philh -- very slow and
very dull
Avoid: Bernstein / Mahler 1 / NY Philh (mid sixties) -- ersatz Mahler, or
something
If you are forced to buy one of the above, buy the Haitink, which at least
has four very good movements.
Samir Golescu
On 7 Oct 2002, Simon Roberts wrote:
> One I won't quickly forget, and that I've often mentioned, is Thomas
> Sanderling's set of Brahms symphonies, praised to the skies (which doesn't
> much bother me) and completely misdescribed (which does) by Michael
> Jameson in Fanfare.
Oh, but the set in question at least does exist, doesn't it?
regards,
SG
Simon Roberts
In huge quantities in the cut-out bins, last time I looked. At least
it's not possible to waste money on imaginary recordings....
Simon
Matthew B. Tepper
news:B9C75277.9035%don...@olg.com:
> 1 Bernstein/Concertbebouw on DGG
> Mitropoulos/Minnesota on Sony
As already noted, I view both of those very favorably. BTW, it was the
Minneapolis Symphony Orchestra back then.
> 4 Gatti on RCA
Hated, hated, hated that one. I've already traded it away for a Fricsay
Originals import, and I'm sure that I got the better of the deal.
Gerrit Stolte
wrote:
>Sacqueboutier <don...@olg.com> wrote in
>news:B9C75277.9035%don...@olg.com:
>
>> 1 Bernstein/Concertbebouw on DGG
>> Mitropoulos/Minnesota on Sony
>
>As already noted, I view both of those very favorably. BTW, it was the
>Minneapolis Symphony Orchestra back then.
>
>> 4 Gatti on RCA
>
>Hated, hated, hated that one. I've already traded it away for a Fricsay
>Originals import, and I'm sure that I got the better of the deal.
Damn it. I would have wanted to be on the receiving end of this Gatti,
as both his 4th and his 5th are already oop in Germany - barely four
years after their initial release.
Gerrit
M. Lucky
> which would you choose?
Oh, I can't resist adding my two cents. My favorites, as of two
o'clock this afternoon:
1) Kubelik (DG)
2) Klemperer (EMI)
3) Tilson Thomas (Sony) Or maybe Bernstein (Sony)
4) Maazel (Sony)
5) Bernstein (DG) Or Chailly (Decca)
6) Mitropoulos (NYPO box set)
7) Abaddo (DG) Or maybe Kubelik (Audite)
8) Sinopoli (Universal, isn't it?)
9) Walter (Sony)
10) Olson (Naxos)
DLVDE: Kubelik (Audite) Or Klemperer.
Sacqueboutier
mista...@yahoo.com wrote on 10/7/02 5:19 PM:
>> If you could only have one recording of each of Mahler's symphonies,
>> which would you choose?
>
> Oh, I can't resist adding my two cents. My favorites, as of two
> o'clock this afternoon:
>
> 1) Kubelik (DG)
> 2) Klemperer (EMI)
> 3) Tilson Thomas (Sony)
This ranks very high on my list as well. I can't wait to
hear his new 3rd with SFSO.
Sacqueboutier
oy?@earthlink.net wrote on 10/7/02 3:56 PM:
> Sacqueboutier <don...@olg.com> wrote in
> news:B9C75277.9035%don...@olg.com:
>
>> 1 Bernstein/Concertbebouw on DGG
>> Mitropoulos/Minnesota on Sony
>
> As already noted, I view both of those very favorably. BTW, it was the
> Minneapolis Symphony Orchestra back then.
>
>> 4 Gatti on RCA
>
> Hated, hated, hated that one. I've already traded it away for a Fricsay
> Originals import, and I'm sure that I got the better of the deal.
Just tryin' to be different. I haven't lost my affinity for
Abbado/Flicka/APO on DGG. But the Gatti did strike me as
one of the most flexible Mahler 4ths I've heard. He seemed
to pull off the Mengelberg thing without sounding like a
superficial copycat. Still digesting it, though. It made
a great first impression on me.
JRsnfld
Avoid: Bernstein / Mahler 5 / Vienna Philh -- distastefully sentimental, in
a word: phoney
Avoid: Haitink / Mahler 5 [iv : adagietto] / Berlin Philh -- very slow and
very dull >>
I'm not sure I agree with all of the above--the Klemperer is not his best 4th,
perhaps, but I heard some interesting details in it. The Haitink indeed seemed
bloated and low-voltage, but there was some good playing there, and the
Bernstein, well, I've been content with the NYPO version. I'll add:
Flipse's M6--someone may be sentimental about it (see earlier posting) but the
playing barely conveyed the piece.
Svetlanov's 4 and 8. I haven't heard more of the cycle than this, but it's no
accident that not one of Svetlanov's recordings was a "favorite" in any of
these postings. He doesn't get the style.
Salonen M4. I'm being provocative, because the playing is gorgeous and
everything flows along smoothly but...in sampling the first movement I was
shocked to see a great orchestra like this miss so many of the dynamic markings
and accents and style in this piece. Maybe the engineering is misleading?
Scherchen's M9. I have a love-hate relationship with a recording that is
perfect here and there, with ferocious intensity, and then stumbles so badly
(with such a fast first movement in particular) here and there.
Neumann's M3 on Canyon. I love the sound, the orchestra, and that's it. I
thought the M2 was much better.
Scherchen's M6, various Scherchen M5s, Mitropoulos NYPO M3,
Stokowski/Philadelphia M2--such a shame about the cuts.
Barbirolli's M5. I've come around to appreciating some of this disc, but the
finale is depressing.
Kempe's M1 and M2: Not all that bad, but definitely too dull for repeated
exposure.
Dohnanyi's M6: I haven't tried it in awhile, so I may change my mind, but I
couldn't stay interested in it.
Chailly M5 and Abbado/Berlin M5. Perhaps it's personal, for everything is
perfect...but I have trouble caring. Same with Levi's M5, though it has some
unusual delicacy and sensitivity, here and there, to keep me engaged.
--Jeff
August Helmbright
> About once a month, we have a "what are your favorite Mahler symphonies
> recordings" thread. One thread I haven't seen are "which Mahler symphony
> recordings are, in your opinion, complete disasters that should never
> have been let out of the studio." So I'll give my nominations and see if
> anyone cares to add to them.
>
>
> 4 - Rozhdestvensky (the old Melodiya recording -- what a hoot)
>
> 5 - Barbirolli
>
> 7 - Levine
>
> Note that this list does *not* include performances that I happen not to
> like but are worth hearing for their historical or other merit (e.g.
> Mengelberg's 4th, the Klemperer Lied von der Erde).
There was a time when I didn't like the Barbirolli M5, but that is
long gone. Admittedly, the second movement is too slow, but
Barbirolli's sense of the whole is there throughout in a way that most
conductors don't match. For example, he is faster than is now the norm
in the Adagietto, and therefore brings off that movement perfectly as
an introduction to the finale, and fully in keeping with Mahler's
characterization of the movement as a "love letter" to Alma. With many
conductors, it becomes something of a dirge and dwarfs the ensuing
finale, totally ruining Mahler's well thought out structural plan.
This mars what would otherwise have been a very good performance by
the BPO under Bernstein. Several conductors are just as bad --
Scherchen may be the worst of all in this regard.
What (other than the slower than normal second movement) don't you
like about it? If it's his portamenti, you should know that Mahler
asked for a lot of portamento, to approximate the sound of his music
being sung. This is mentioned by some of his former NYPO musicians in
their recollection tapes that were made around the time of the Mahler
celebrations in 1960. Given the fact that orchestras tended to use a
fair amount of portamento without being coaxed during Mahler's time,
the fact that he made a point of asking for it indicates that he
expected a great deal of it. Barbirolli's portamenti always sound
completely natural (vocal) to me, unlike Mengelberg's, which are at
times too exaggerated and syrupy.
As for the Klemperer dLvdE -- you're nuts! Or, to put it more
politely, keep listening.
Heck51
"One thread I haven't seen are "which Mahler symphony
recordings are, in your opinion, complete disasters that should never
have been let out of the studio."
#1 - Leinsdorf/BSO - dull, flabby recording of dull, flabby conducting
of dull, flabby playing,
#3 - Leinsdorf/BSO - dull, flabby recording of dull, flabby conducting
of dull, flabby playing,
#5 - Scherchen/VSOO - my first exposure to the piece. gawd, what a
turkey - from the "marble-mouth" opening trumpet solo right on thru.
awful.
#5 - Leinsdorf/BSO - dull, flabby recording of dull, flabby conducting
of dull, flabby playing. The braying nanny-goat tone/vibrato of tpt I
(Voisin) begins to "grate on the ears" c. measure 3.
#7 - Scherchen/VSOO - another real lemon - awful playing - haven't
heard it in awhile - The tenor horn, IIRC, sounded like a dyspeptic
elephant farting in a barrel.
#7 - don't remember the conductor (Swarowsky??)/Berlin RadioSO - one
of those live tapes from the 50s, ala Scherchen/VSOO - this one was
hilarious!! All sorts of wonderful "clams" and "clobbers" in the most
inopportune spots. Terrific wipeouts by the trumptets and horns - a
real "clam chowder" champion!!
#9 - Svetlanov/Russian StateSO - awful!! orchestral balances are
screwed up beyond belief - and tempi are all over the place. MvtIII
goes so fast that it is a total hash before we even reach the
accelerandi near the end - this results in a first-class train-wreck,
with instruments and notes strewn all over the page!! a real
"gobbler", Make a "coaster" out of this one.
George John
-snip-
> About once a month, we have a "what are your favorite Mahler symphonies
> recordings" thread. One thread I haven't seen are "which Mahler symphony
> recordings are, in your opinion, complete disasters that should never
> have been let out of the studio." So I'll give my nominations and see if
> anyone cares to add to them.
I will probably be (and perhaps should be) flamed for saying this, but the
most disappointing Mahler performance in my admittedly modest collection is
the Horenstein 6th (note: I grew up with and am a fan of his 1st and 3rd).
I do have some tolerance for badly cracked notes and poor ensemble, but this
one crosses the line of acceptability for me.
Another major disappointment for me was the Solti/Te Kanawa/CSO 4th. After
I bought the Zander 4th, I reviewed the final movement of all versions I
have (Abbado/von Stade/VPO, Levi/von Stade/Atlanta, Reiner/CSO/Della Casa,
Solti/CSO/Te Kanawa, Zander/Tilling/Philharmonia). My all time favorite
vocal disk in my collection is the Davis/Te Kanawa/LSO Strauss "Four Last
Songs". By contrast I couldn't stand listening to the Solti/Te Kanawa M4
for more than a few minutes -- again, a major disappointment (note: I still
like the Solti M6 & M8 quite a bit, and less so his M5 & M7).
And, has anyone ever figured out what's the deal with the Giulini/CSO M9
recorded sound (I have the LP, perhaps the CD cured it)? Is it tape
flutter, artificial vibrato, or a string section being asked to do something
that I didn't realize string players could do (or at least should not
do -grin-)?
-snip-
George
JRsnfld
recorded sound (I have the LP, perhaps the CD cured it)? Is it tape
flutter, artificial vibrato, or a string section being asked to do something
that I didn't realize string players could do (or at least should not
do -grin-)? >>
This is the deal: you have to get the latest version, DG Originals. The
engineering mistake has been corrected, finally. It always sounded like one
track was mistakenly applied out of phase with the others.
--Jeff
JRsnfld
heard it in awhile - The tenor horn, IIRC, sounded like a dyspeptic
elephant farting in a barrel.>>
Wonderful description of some of the passages. No question there are some
missing parts, weak entrances, and wrong notes....wait a minute! I'm talking
about the Scherchen/VSO on Orfeo. You're really that unable to enjoy the Vienna
State Opera Orchestra performance on MCA/Millenium/Westminster?
<<
#7 - don't remember the conductor (Swarowsky??)/Berlin RadioSO - one
of those live tapes from the 50s, ala Scherchen/VSOO - this one was
hilarious!! All sorts of wonderful "clams" and "clobbers" in the most
inopportune spots. Terrific wipeouts by the trumptets and horns - ... >>
I will get a chuckle if it turns out you're referring to the Rosbaud/Berlin
Radio version on Vox.
--Jef
Ray Hall
news:B9C750EA.9034%don...@olg.com...
Abbado's 7th with the CSO was a recent cull. Not bad (rather ordinary to
me), but I couldn't abide the recorded sound. Ghastly.
Regards,
# http://www.users.bigpond.com/hallraylily/index.html
< NEW Doris Day TV series news >
VIVE LA KAREN, as endorsed by El Toro de Taree
Ray, Taree, NSW
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Ray Hall
news:12cbb4d6.02100...@posting.google.com...
| <sch...@gefen.cc.biu.ac.il> wrote in message
news:<anr6m4$lnn$3...@news.iucc.ac.il>...
| > About once a month, we have a "what are your favorite Mahler symphonies
| > recordings" thread. One thread I haven't seen are "which Mahler
symphony
| > recordings are, in your opinion, complete disasters that should never
| > have been let out of the studio." So I'll give my nominations and see
if
| > anyone cares to add to them.
| >
| > 1 - Kondrashin
| >
| > 4 - Rozhdestvensky (the old Melodiya recording -- what a hoot)
| >
| > 5 - Barbirolli
| >
| > 7 - Levine
| >
| > Note that this list does *not* include performances that I happen not to
| > like but are worth hearing for their historical or other merit (e.g.
| > Mengelberg's 4th, the Klemperer Lied von der Erde).
|
| There was a time when I didn't like the Barbirolli M5, but that is
It has similar qualities in some respects to JB's Sibelius 5th. The way he
gathers momentum in the final movement is only for those who really love
their Sibelius.
As for Barbirolli's Mahler, I agree fully with you. Not always perfect, but
always interesting, and the Mahler 5th is a great recorded performance. The
only slightly dud JB Mahler recording for me is the 9th. I fail to see
anything really *that* special about it. But it remains a keeper.
George Murnu
> As for the Klemperer dLvdE -- you're nuts! Or, to put it more
> politely, keep listening.
Or maybe he meant the one with the Vienna Symphony??? - though it still
has Dermota.
Regards,
George
George John
"JRsnfld" <jrs...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021007202508...@mb-ff.aol.com...
Jeff,
I very much appreciate this information. I have long admired this
performance and had hoped and expected the problem was in the engineering
and not the master or original performance. I'm very pleased that DG has at
long last fixed this problem, and this wonderful performance can now be
heard without this distracting (for me) problem.
George
Brian Burtt
--Brian
Eric Nagamine
>
> <sch...@gefen.cc.biu.ac.il> appears to have caused the following
> letters to be typed in news:anrs69$7js$1...@news.iucc.ac.il:
>
> > In article <Xns929FF270184...@216.148.53.81>, Matthew B.
> > Tepper <oy兀earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> >:>: 3 - Horenstein/LSO
> >:>: Horenstein/RAI Torino O (Rococo LPs; YES I have them)
> >:>
> >:> What? No F. Charles Adler? (the F. Charles Adler is now available
> >:> Jugendzeit" that was the sixth side of the records)
> >:
> >: Life is too short for listening to potentially-mediocre Mahler. ;--)
> >
> > I guess it's a sentimental thing with me -- I learned Mahler's 3d from
> > Library Music Room.
>
> I'll bet that, by the same token, there are some people who would love to
> have CDs of Flipse's 6th and 8th. ;--)
>
Well somebody must like Flipse. The Rotterdam 8th is being reissued I
think by Scribendum coupled with the Morris/NPO Cooke II - 10th.
--
-----------
Aloha and Mahalo,
Eric Nagamine
sch...@gefen.cc.biu.ac.il
: Avoid: Bernstein / Mahler 1 / NY Philh (mid sixties) -- ersatz Mahler, or
: something
Is that the one where he adds a rest between the last two notes of the finale?
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"You go on playing Bach your way, and I'll go on playing him *his* way."
-- Wanda Landowska
sch...@gefen.cc.biu.ac.il
: What (other than the slower than normal second movement) don't you
: like about it? If it's his portamenti, you should know that Mahler
: asked for a lot of portamento, to approximate the sound of his music
: being sung. This is mentioned by some of his former NYPO musicians in
: their recollection tapes that were made around the time of the Mahler
: celebrations in 1960. Given the fact that orchestras tended to use a
: fair amount of portamento without being coaxed during Mahler's time,
: the fact that he made a point of asking for it indicates that he
: expected a great deal of it. Barbirolli's portamenti always sound
: completely natural (vocal) to me, unlike Mengelberg's, which are at
: times too exaggerated and syrupy.
wrote in the score -- starting with the opening trumpet call. His adagietto
may be "faster than the norm" (I don't know why you think that) but even
so, it drags. And the natural tempo for the Adagietto is, as far as I am
concerned, the one that Mahler, Mengelberg, and Walter took -- somewhere
between 7.5 and 8 minutes, not 9'45". I feel that, unlike Walter and
Kubelik, Barbirolli had no conception of what he wanted the piece to be.
That recording has always struck me as a huge mess from start to finish.
: As for the Klemperer dLvdE -- you're nuts! Or, to put it more
: politely, keep listening.
Or to put it more politetly, you haven't a clue. The inner movements are
among the most boring performances of the work that I have heard. The
singing is wonderful, and there are a few glorious moments in the outer
movements, but why listen to that recording when you have three Walter
recordings that are at or near the top of the list (although I never
liked Kullman's singing very much in the 1936), the Schuricht 1939
recording, and for people who like the baritone version, King/DFD/Bernstein
(and even Kletzki) -- all of which were conducted by people who at least
appear to have been awake.
P.S. I don't like the Horenstein "BBC Legends" version either. What a
waste of 11 pounds sterling that was. . .
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
It's a bird, it's a plane -- no, it's Mozart. . .
sch...@gefen.cc.biu.ac.il
: 5 Abbado/CSO on DGG
: No historical here.
Not even Walter/NYPO?
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"We cannot see how any of his music can long survive him."
-- From the New York Daily Tribune obituary of Gustav Mahler