Brahms Violin Concerto, Szigeti, LSO, Menges
GP49
(1892-1980) and the London Symphony conducted by Herbert Menges
(1902 - 1972) on a long out-of-print Mercury Living Presence LP. The
recording session was on June 28, 1959, according to the detailed
liner
notes on the outer jacket.
Szigeti enjoyed a long and illustrious career, both in concert and on
recordings. His records spanned the eras from acoustic recording to
the stereo LP. By the time this record was made, the arthritis that
plagued him since 1950 was causing problems: a wide vibrato is very
much in evidence.
At a recital, cellist Janos Starker was appalled at Szigeti's playing
at
first, but admired the beauty of his playing once his fingers
loosened
up; this recording is from even later in Szigeti's career. In 1960
Szigeti retired from public performances.
The front of the LP jacket is of particular note. The photograph was
not made in a photo studio, but rather at the recording session. The
Guarneri and bow that Szigeti played in this recording were
photographed right where he left them after a take, the violin leaning
on his violin case.
Source: Mercury stereo SR90225, personally owned and transferred to
WAV; mild click removal (there are still some surface noises and some
light clicks); conversion to FLAC. I cannot locate any CD release of
this recording.
Note: link is rather long, may wrap for some uses or be truncated.
TinyURL link also provided.
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=44dea677a83d2311111096d429abd360412bbe9ff53e6ed64ca8d2a77d7aad89
td
> Here's the Brahms Violin Concerto, with violinist Joseph Szigeti(1892-1980) and the London Symphony conducted by Herbert Menges
> (1902 - 1972) on a long out-of-print Mercury Living Presence LP. The
> recording session was on June 28, 1959, according to the detailed
> liner
> notes on the outer jacket.
>
> Szigeti enjoyed a long and illustrious career, both in concert and on
> recordings. His records spanned the eras from acoustic recording to
> the stereo LP. By the time this record was made, the arthritis that
> plagued him since 1950 was causing problems: a wide vibrato is very
> much in evidence.
>
> At a recital, cellist Janos Starker was appalled at Szigeti's playing
> at
> first, but admired the beauty of his playing once his fingers
> loosened
> up; this recording is from even later in Szigeti's career. In 1960
> Szigeti retired from public performances.
>
> The front of the LP jacket is of particular note. The photograph was
> not made in a photo studio, but rather at the recording session. The
> Guarneri and bow that Szigeti played in this recording were
> photographed right where he left them after a take, the violin leaning
> on his violin case.
>
> Source: Mercury stereo SR90225, personally owned and transferred to
> WAV; mild click removal (there are still some surface noises and some
> light clicks); conversion to FLAC. I cannot locate any CD release of
> this recording.
Reissued on CD in the 1990s by Philips Japan to the extreme annoyance
of WCF.
TD
GP49
> Reissued on CD in the 1990s by Philips Japan to the extreme annoyance
> of WCF.
Thanks, Tom, for the info. I had wondered why it never appeared among
the Living Presence CD reissues.
Good LP copies seem to sell at very high prices.
Matthew B. Tepper
be typed in news:0001HW.C7F89557...@news.tpg.com.au:
> On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 11:05:23 +1000, GP49 wrote
> (in article
><3e2d8995-694e-42c1...@s15g2000prg.googlegroups.com>):
> Some time ago, I mentioned that I'd like to obtain this recording again,
> and asked if anyone knew if it had ever made it onto CD. I was delighted
> when Matthew Tepper advised that it is on a Philips CD available from CD
> Japan:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/26qa6th
>
> I bought it and enjoy it a lot. It's a nice transfer. Alas, the original
> cover photo is not there.
Glad to have helped!
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
Read about "Proty" here: http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/proty.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers
Oscar Williamson
> of WCF.
>
> TD
Why do you think this title wasn't chosen for release via US
Polygram? Seems like an obvious choice to me. I have not heard it,
though.
GP49
wrote:
> Why do you think this title wasn't chosen for release via US
> Polygram? Seems like an obvious choice to me. I have not heard it,
> though.
Mercury had its own competing issue of the Brahms Violin Concerto:
Henryk Szerying with the London Symphony under Dorati, issued just
shortly afterwards. That SHOULDN'T have stopped them from reissuing
the Szegeti, but who can REALLY get into the minds of record company
executives?
td
You answered your own question.
It's fairly appalling, actually. Very hard to listen to.
TD
td
Perhaps you could if you had ears.
TD
John Wiser
>> On Apr 24, 12:34 am, GP49 wrote:
>>> On Apr 23, 9:00 pm, Oscar Williamson wrote:
>
>> > Why do you think this title wasn't chosen for release via US
>> > Polygram? Seems like an obvious choice to me. I have not
>> >heard it, though.
>
>> Mercury had its own competing issue of the Brahms Violin Concerto:
>> Henryk Szerying with the London Symphony under Dorati, issued just
>> shortly afterwards. That SHOULDN'T have stopped them from reissuing
>> executives?
> Perhaps you could if you had ears.
Or if record company executives had minds.
In fact, it's a less-than-compelling rendition,
which TeDious has been hesitant to tell you.
--
John Wiser
Jicotea Used Books
Howells NY 10932 0136 USA
cee...@gmail.com
http://www.amazon.com/shops/ceeclef
wkasimer
<oscaredwardwilliam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Why do you think this title wasn't chosen for release via US
> Polygram? Seems like an obvious choice to me. I have not heard it,
> though.
The real question is "why did Philips ever issue this at all"? I
bought a copy and got rid of it almost immediately - it did nothing
for Brahms, or for Szigeti.
Bill
td
I have to say that I have forgotten the "why" of these recordings with
Szigeti. WCF once told me the story but it has just slipped my mind
permanently.
The Japanese worship Szigeti. They also worship Enesco's Bach Sonatas
and Partitas. go figure.
TD
Matthew B. Tepper
be typed in
news:237cc378-27c1-4132...@q31g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
You're making an assumption there.
BTW, I possess Japanese Mercury LPs of all of these too-late Szigeti
recordings, which included one item that had not been issued stateside, the
Webern Four Pieces, Op. 7, I think. The violinist's technique is quite
obviously not what it had been, and his intonation is often problematic.
I've always felt that the most listenable of the lot is the Beethoven
Concerto (with Szigeti/LSO, whereas Menges conducted in the Brahms and the
Prokofiev #1); apart from not really having a trill any more, Szigeti pulls
it together somehow.
Interestingly, Szigeti shared sessions with Byron Janis for two of these
concerto recordings: the Prokofiev in June 1960 sessions with Tchaikovsky's
PC #1, and the Beethoven in June 1961 with Rachmaninoff's PC #3. The Brahms
was recorded all by its lonesome, in June 1959. (See Philip Stuart's "The
LSO Discography.")
Dontait...@aol.com
[edits]
> BTW, I possess Japanese Mercury LPs of all of these too-late Szigeti
> recordings, which included one item that had not been issued stateside, the
> Webern Four Pieces, Op. 7, I think.
They are on US Mercury SR90442 (stereo)/MG50422 (mono). Coupled with
Sonata no. 1 (Honegger), Sonata in G Minor (Debussy), and Sonata no. 4
(Ives). Roy Bogas, piano.
What might the non-USA-issued title have been? (I own all of the
Szigeti Mercury LPs on American pressings.)
I agree that Szigeti's Mercury recordings were too late. He was a
great musician with noble insights and ideals, and one of the
greatest violinists of his time, but the decline in his technique due
to arthritis made his post-1950 performances hard to listen to. The
recordings, certainly.
Incidentally...the Beethoven Concerto on Mercury was conducted by
Dorati.
Don Tait
td
I suspect, Don, that Dorati was the instigator of Szigeti's arrival at
MLP. WCF was very close to AD and would have obliged him in any way
possible. He had hired the young woman as his secretary in Dallas,
remember. She was grateful and loyal.
She would have never reissued these lamentable recordings.
TD
Dontait...@aol.com
> I suspect, Don, that Dorati was the instigator of Szigeti's arrival at
> MLP. WCF was very close to AD and would have obliged him in any way
> possible. He had hired the young woman as his secretary in Dallas,
> remember. She was grateful and loyal.
>
> She would have never reissued these lamentable recordings.
>
> TD
Thanks for the information. I was sorry when you said in a previous
post that Wilma Cozart Fine had told you why the Szigeti recordings
were made but that you couldn't remember what she'd said; so your
suspicions are valuable.
Don T.
td
Try as I may, Don, I simply don.t recall the details, except that she
was horrified at the Japanese reissue without her involvement or
consent and that they did no service either to MLP or to Szigeti.
But she had no authority, to deny the reissue, of course.
TD
Matthew B. Tepper
typed in news:69f49f0f-04af-4902-9964-
1b2249...@z11g2000yqz.googlegroups.com:
Yep, I was thinking "Dorati/LSO" and typed "Szigeti/LSO." Sometimes these
Hungarian names just throw me.
Dontait...@aol.com
> Dontaitchic...@aol.com appears to have caused the following letters to be
> typed in
> > � Incidentally...the Beethoven Concerto on Mercury was conducted by
> > Dorati.
>
> Yep, I was thinking "Dorati/LSO" and typed "Szigeti/LSO." �Sometimes these
> Hungarian names just throw me.
Yep, I suspected "just one of those things."
Don Tait
Gerard
>
> Szigeti's arrival at
> MLP. WCF was very close to AD
Tom, can you please use names in stead of abbreviations?
td
LOL.
Typing on an iPad is a very new experience. So, I try to abbreviate
wherever possible.
TD
wagnerfan
Tom = thats because you aren't using it correctly. I bet when you read
the name IPAD you thought you had to put it where you wear your other
"pads" - no wonder you can't reach down there to get to the
keyboard!!. No you use it like a Kindle - that will solve your
problem. Wagner fan (always ready to help)
td
> On Apr 24, 8:00 pm, td <tomdedea...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> > On Apr 24, 4:55 pm, "Gerard" <ghen_nospam_driksenþ@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > td wrote:
>
> > > > Szigeti's arrival at
> > > > MLP. WCF was very close to AD
>
> > > Tom, can you please use names in stead of abbreviations?
>
> > LOL.
>
> > Typing on an iPad is a very new experience. So, I try to abbreviate
> > wherever possible.
>
> > TD
>
> Tom = thats because you aren't using it correctly.
The green monster.
TD
wagnerfan
>
> - Show quoted text -
Fenway Park??????? Wagner fan
Gerard
Making your posts hardly understandable.
If that's what you want ...
td
MLP is a very common abbreviation.
Did you not recognize AD in this context? Or WCF? do you REALLY want
me to spell out Wilma Cozart Fine every time I mention her? Or would
Fine and Dorati or Mercury do just as well?
Are you also inveighing against LOL, ROTFL, and OTOH?
If you are, you have a real battle on your hands, I would suggest.
TD
td
Yeah, you got it.
TD
Bob Lombard
>
> MLP is a very common abbreviation.
Not common enough for me.
>
> Did you not recognize AD in this context? Or WCF? do you REALLY want
> me to spell out Wilma Cozart Fine every time I mention her? Or would
> Fine and Dorati or Mercury do just as well?
W.C.Fine would work for me.
>
It appears that hillbillies and at least one Dutchman have similar
problems with initials-as-abbreviations.
bl
--
Music, books, a few movies
LombardMusic
http://www.amazon.com/shops/A3NRY9P3TNNXNA
Gerard
> On 4/25/2010 9:34 AM, td wrote:
>
> >
> > MLP is a very common abbreviation.
>
> Not common enough for me.
Exactly.
Should I have to look for it with Google?
(> 2,500,000 hits)
> >
> > Did you not recognize AD in this context? Or WCF? do you REALLY want
> > me to spell out Wilma Cozart Fine every time I mention her? Or would
> > Fine and Dorati or Mercury do just as well?
>
> W.C.Fine would work for me.
Exactly.
"WCF" is absolutely jargon.
> >
> It appears that hillbillies and at least one Dutchman have similar
> problems with initials-as-abbreviations.
>
> bl
Not just hillbillies.
BTW "AD" = Anno Domini?
Bob Lombard
> Bob Lombard wrote:
>> It appears that hillbillies and at least one Dutchman have similar
>> problems with initials-as-abbreviations.
>>
>> bl
>
> Not just hillbillies.
> BTW "AD" = Anno Domini?
>
>
Without a date before it, for some reason I usually read it
provisionally as Attention Disorder. At least in posts from or
referring to TD.
wagnerfan
Had to look that one up after I got you on your mistake????? You
actually didn't know what the "green monster" is?? (as opposed to the
"green-eyed monster" which is what you were trying unsuccessfully to
convey") Deacon if you want to diss someone, ya gotta have your facts
right but I appreciate the attempt. Wagner fan
Gerard
> On 4/25/2010 10:10 AM, Gerard wrote:
> > Bob Lombard wrote:
>
> > > It appears that hillbillies and at least one Dutchman have similar
> > > problems with initials-as-abbreviations.
> > >
> > > bl
> >
> > Not just hillbillies.
> > BTW "AD" = Anno Domini?
> >
> >
> Without a date before it, for some reason I usually read it
> provisionally as Attention Disorder. At least in posts from or
> referring to TD.
>
Or Alfred Deller, Alistair Dixon, Amy Dissanayake, Alexandre Dossin, Andrew
Davis, Annette Dasch, Andreas Delfs,
Augustin Dumay, Anton Dermota, Arthur Dubinstein.
Norman Schwartz
"Gerard" <ghen_nospam_driksenþ@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:f0cd$4bd44d4d$5ed13b3d$18...@cache1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl...
> Bob Lombard wrote:
>> On 4/25/2010 9:34 AM, td wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > MLP is a very common abbreviation.
>>
>> Not common enough for me.
>
> Exactly.
> Should I have to look for it with Google?
> (> 2,500,000 hits)
>
>> >
>> > Did you not recognize AD in this context? Or WCF? do you REALLY want
>> > me to spell out Wilma Cozart Fine every time I mention her? Or would
>> > Fine and Dorati or Mercury do just as well?
>>
>> W.C.Fine would work for me.
>
> Exactly.
> "WCF" is absolutely jargon.
>
being Mercury Living Presence. From that point on the significance of WCF
and AD would become immediately obvious. (At least it works this way for me
in my aged brain.)
Gerard
> "Gerard" <ghen_nospam_driksenþ@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:f0cd$4bd44d4d$5ed13b3d$18...@cache1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl...
> > Bob Lombard wrote:
> > > On 4/25/2010 9:34 AM, td wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > MLP is a very common abbreviation.
> > >
> > > Not common enough for me.
> >
> > Exactly.
> > Should I have to look for it with Google?
> > (> 2,500,000 hits)
> >
> > > >
> > > > Did you not recognize AD in this context? Or WCF? do you REALLY
> > > > want me to spell out Wilma Cozart Fine every time I mention
> > > > her? Or would Fine and Dorati or Mercury do just as well?
> > >
> > > W.C.Fine would work for me.
> >
> > Exactly.
> > "WCF" is absolutely jargon.
> >
> I thought any classical music enthusiast/collector would recognize
> MLP as being Mercury Living Presence.
Obviously you thought wrong.
Many classical music enthusiasts/collectors know "Mercury Living Presence" as
"Mercury Living Presence" and /never/ use things like "MLP".
> From that point on the
> significance of WCF and AD would become immediately obvious. (At
> least it works this way for me in my aged brain.)
>
That's just you.
Peter Greenstein
"Norman Schwartz" <nm...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:4bd46287$0$22520$607e...@cv.net...
>>> >
>>> > Did you not recognize AD in this context? Or WCF? do you REALLY want
>>> > me to spell out Wilma Cozart Fine every time I mention her? Or would
>>> > Fine and Dorati or Mercury do just as well?
>>>
>>
> being Mercury Living Presence. From that point on the significance of WCF
> and AD would become immediately obvious. (At least it works this way for
> me in my aged brain.)
>
I agree. In context, MLP is pretty clear, then the others follow. It took me
a couple more moments to get AD, but that's ok. Kinda fun, actually.
--
Peter Greenstein
http://www.wakefieldjazz.com/
td
wrote:
Sometimes.
What about MAH?
or SR Imind you, that can mean either Rachmaninoff or Richter)
or AR (that has to be Rubinstein, at least in a piano context, I would
think)
TD
td
wrote:
> On 4/25/2010 10:10 AM, Gerard wrote:
>
> > Bob Lombard wrote:
> >> It appears that hillbillies and at least one Dutchman have similar
> >> problems with initials-as-abbreviations.
>
> >> bl
>
> > Not just hillbillies.
> > BTW "AD" = Anno Domini?
>
> Without a date before it, for some reason I usually read it
> provisionally as Attention Disorder. At least in posts from or
> referring to TD.
Well you continue to do that, Bob. It won't matter anyway, because you
hardly ever get the point, you know.
TD
td
wrote:
In the context of a post about Szigeti and his MLP recordings it can
ONLY mean Antal Dorati.
What did Dumay, or Dasch or Dermota have to do with MLP?
TD
td
> "Gerard" <ghen_nospam_driksenþ@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:f0cd$4bd44d4d$5ed13b3d$18...@cache1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl...
>
> > Bob Lombard wrote:
> >> On 4/25/2010 9:34 AM, td wrote:
>
> >> > MLP is a very common abbreviation.
>
> >> Not common enough for me.
>
> > Exactly.
> > Should I have to look for it with Google?
> > (> 2,500,000 hits)
>
> >> > Did you not recognize AD in this context? Or WCF? do you REALLY want
> >> > me to spell out Wilma Cozart Fine every time I mention her? Or would
> >> > Fine and Dorati or Mercury do just as well?
>
> >> W.C.Fine would work for me.
>
> > Exactly.
> > "WCF" is absolutely jargon.
>
> I thought any classical music enthusiast/collector would recognize MLP as
> being Mercury Living Presence. From that point on the significance of WCF
> and AD would become immediately obvious. (At least it works this way for me
> in my aged brain.)
Correct. Thank you, Norman. Finally someone with sense instead of
obstinacy.
TD
td
wrote:
Wrong.
It is anyone who knows anything about Dorati, Szigeti and these
dreadful recordings which were the subject of the thread.
TD
Bob Lombard
MLP expands to Major League Player for me. WCF is an elderly image
format, or an even older hard drive system. AD I have already covered.
TD's 'in context' is as often Zionism or various perversions as it is
music, and it ain't always easy to figure which 'context' he is
working in. Not worth the trouble either, when he's initializing.
Bob Harper
> On 4/25/2010 10:10 AM, Gerard wrote:
>> Bob Lombard wrote:
>
>>> It appears that hillbillies and at least one Dutchman have similar
>>> problems with initials-as-abbreviations.
>>>
>>> bl
>>
>> Not just hillbillies.
>> BTW "AD" = Anno Domini?
>>
>>
> Without a date before it, for some reason I usually read it
> provisionally as Attention Disorder. At least in posts from or referring
> to TD.
>
> bl
>
>
depending), something quite common around here.
Bob Harper
Bob Harper
Bob Harper
Gerard
It's no excuse ('forcing' people to reread the whole thread). If you want to
communicate, it's up to you to write understandable (i.e. understandable easily
without puzzles).
BTW subjects were Brahms, Szigeti, Menges.
O
Harper <bob.h...@comcast.net> wrote:
What were you saying?
-Owen
td
What is the point of coming into a thread in medias res?
TD
Bob Harper
About what?
Bob Harper
Ward Hardman eats fresh turds for breakfast
td
> On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 02:40:41 +1000, Norman Schwartz wrote
> (in article <4bd46287$0$22520$607ed...@cv.net>):
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Gerard" <ghen_nospam_driksenþ@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:f0cd$4bd44d4d$5ed13b3d$18...@cache1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl...
> >> Bob Lombard wrote:
> >>> On 4/25/2010 9:34 AM, td wrote:
>
> >>>> MLP is a very common abbreviation.
>
> >>> Not common enough for me.
>
> >> Exactly.
> >> Should I have to look for it with Google?
> >> (> 2,500,000 hits)
>
> >>>> Did you not recognize AD in this context? Or WCF? do you REALLY want
> >>>> me to spell out Wilma Cozart Fine every time I mention her? Or would
> >>>> Fine and Dorati or Mercury do just as well?
>
> >>> W.C.Fine would work for me.
>
> >> Exactly.
> >> "WCF" is absolutely jargon.
>
> > I thought any classical music enthusiast/collector would recognize MLP as
> > being Mercury Living Presence. From that point on the significance of WCF
> > and AD would become immediately obvious. (At least it works this way for me
> > in my aged brain.)
>
> you just like exercising your fingers to no effect?
WTFIWWTS
TD
Matthew B. Tepper
be typed in news:0001HW.C7FB1562...@news.tpg.com.au:
> On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 01:23:14 +1000, Gerard wrote
> (in article <70e63$4bd45e66$5ed13b3d$78...@cache1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>):
>
>> Or Alfred Deller, Alistair Dixon, Amy Dissanayake, Alexandre Dossin,
>> Andrew Davis, Annette Dasch, Andreas Delfs, Augustin Dumay, Anton Dermota,
>
> Arnold Dolmetsch...
Adamo Didur, Ania Dorfman, Alfred Dubois.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
Read about "Proty" here: http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/proty.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers
Anti-Troll-01
"[snip] fresh turds [snip]" and posting from email address
<spambuster12345(AT)googlemail.com>, via IP Adress
"77.68.106.14" wrote:
> [troll trash deleted]
This troll is posting his excreta via RIPE:
77.68.106.14
Record Type: IP Address
OrgName: RIPE Network Coordination Centre
OrgID: RIPE
Address: P.O. Box 10096
City: Amsterdam
Country: NL
via a subnet in the UK:
inetnum: 77.68.104.0 - 77.68.107.255
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This is actually "The RIPE Turd" troll, also known as "PIGBOY" and
"RMCReep."
- Anti-Troll-01
O
Harper <bob.h...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >> I would have thought Attention Deficit (followed by 'D' or 'HD',
> >> depending), something quite common around here.
> >
> > What were you saying?
> >
> > -Owen
>
> About what?
I forgot.
-Owen
Which leads me to one of my favorite jokes:
LET'S PLAY GOLF
Arthur was 90 years old. He'd played golf every day since his
retirement 25 years ago. One day he arrived home looking downcast.
'That's it,' he told his wife. 'I'm giving up golf. My eyesight has
gotten so bad that once I've hit the ball I can't see where it goes.'
His wife sympathized and made him a cup of tea. As they sit down she
said, Why don't you take my brother with you and give it one more
try.'
'That's no good' sighed, Arthur, 'your brother's a hundred and
three. He can't help.'
'He may be a hundred and three', said
the wife, 'but his eyesight is perfect '
So the next day Arthur headed off to the golf course with his
brother-in-law. He tees up, takes an almighty swing and squints down
the fairway.
He turned to the brother-in-law. 'Did you see the ball?'
'Of course I did!' replied the brother-in-law. 'I have
perfect eyesight'.
'Where did it go?' said Arthur.
'I don't remember.'
Anti-Troll-01
Norman Schwartz
> On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 02:40:41 +1000, Norman Schwartz wrote
>
>>
>> "Gerard" <ghen_nospam_driksen兀hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:f0cd$4bd44d4d$5ed13b3d$18...@cache1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl...
>>> Bob Lombard wrote:
>>>> On 4/25/2010 9:34 AM, td wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> MLP is a very common abbreviation.
>>>>
>>>> Not common enough for me.
>>>
>>> Exactly.
>>> Should I have to look for it with Google?
>>> (> 2,500,000 hits)
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Did you not recognize AD in this context? Or WCF? do you REALLY
>>>>> want me to spell out Wilma Cozart Fine every time I mention her?
>>>>> Or would Fine and Dorati or Mercury do just as well?
>>>>
>>>> W.C.Fine would work for me.
>>>
>>> Exactly.
>>> "WCF" is absolutely jargon.
>>>
>> I thought any classical music enthusiast/collector would recognize
>> MLP as being Mercury Living Presence. From that point on the
>> significance of WCF and AD would become immediately obvious. (At
>> least it works this way for me in my aged brain.)
>
> Or do you just like exercising your fingers to no effect?
No and no.
Bob Harper
(snip)
> LET'S PLAY GOLF
>
> Arthur was 90 years old. He'd played golf every day since his
> retirement 25 years ago. One day he arrived home looking downcast.
> 'That's it,' he told his wife. 'I'm giving up golf. My eyesight has
> gotten so bad that once I've hit the ball I can't see where it goes.'
> His wife sympathized and made him a cup of tea. As they sit down she
> said, Why don't you take my brother with you and give it one more
> try.'
> 'That's no good' sighed, Arthur, 'your brother's a hundred and
> three. He can't help.'
> 'He may be a hundred and three', said
> the wife, 'but his eyesight is perfect '
>
> So the next day Arthur headed off to the golf course with his
> brother-in-law. He tees up, takes an almighty swing and squints down
> the fairway.
>
> He turned to the brother-in-law. 'Did you see the ball?'
>
> 'Of course I did!' replied the brother-in-law. 'I have
> perfect eyesight'.
>
> 'Where did it go?' said Arthur.
>
> 'I don't remember.'
That's *funny*, though you may get into trouble with the PC police for
'ageism'.
Bob Harper
Kip Williams
Yeah, there's so many PC police around. Except when you really need one,
of course.
Kip W
Gerard
> Bob Harper wrote:
> >
> > That's *funny*, though you may get into trouble with the PC police
> > for 'ageism'.
>
> Yeah, there's so many PC police around. Except when you really need
> one, of course.
>
Then there's always Tepper.
Bob Lombard
But there will not always be Tepper. Enjoy his repartee while you can.
Gerard
> On 4/27/2010 11:01 AM, Gerard wrote:
> > Kip Williams wrote:
> > > Bob Harper wrote:
> >
> > > >
> > > > That's *funny*, though you may get into trouble with the PC
> > > > police for 'ageism'.
> > >
> > > Yeah, there's so many PC police around. Except when you really
> > > need one, of course.
> > >
> >
> > Then there's always Tepper.
> >
> >
>
> But there will not always be Tepper. Enjoy his repartee while you can.
>
> bl
Most of it is whining. You know.
Matthew B. Tepper
following letters to be typed in news:6bDBn.230823$Up1.65386@en-nntp-
09.dc1.easynews.com:
> But there will not always be Tepper. Enjoy his repartee while you can.
1. My family tends toward longevity. I often joke that we never really have
to do anything to our enemies; we generally outlive them.
2. I have no plans to leave this newsgroup. There have been those, over the
years, who have attacked me, presumably with the intention of making me drop
out. They are no longer here. (A corrollary of #1, sort of.)
3. The person to whom you replied is in my killfile. He may indeed exist in
real life, but to me, he doesn't.
So, does anybody agree with me that the REAL classic Szigeti recording of the
Brahms Violin Concerto is the one with Harty/Hallé, despite oldish sound?
Gerard
> Bob Lombard <thorste...@vermontel.net> appears to have caused the
> following letters to be typed in news:6bDBn.230823$Up1.65386@en-nntp-
> 09.dc1.easynews.com:
>
> > But there will not always be Tepper. Enjoy his repartee while you
> > can.
>
> 1. My family tends toward longevity. I often joke that we never
> really have to do anything to our enemies; we generally outlive them.
>
> 2. I have no plans to leave this newsgroup. There have been those,
> over the years, who have attacked me, presumably with the intention
> of making me drop out. They are no longer here. (A corrollary of
> #1, sort of.)
>
> 3. The person to whom you replied is in my killfile. He may indeed
> exist in real life, but to me, he doesn't.
>
> So, does anybody agree with me that the REAL classic Szigeti
> recording of the Brahms Violin Concerto is the one with Harty/Hallé,
> despite oldish sound?
Classical example of non-sequitur - or just non-sense?
wagnerfan
wrote:
> Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
> > Bob Lombard <thorsteinnos...@vermontel.net> appears to have caused the
> > following letters to be typed innews:6bDBn.230823$Up1.65386@en-nntp-
> > 09.dc1.easynews.com:
>
> > > But there will not always be Tepper. Enjoy his repartee while you
> > > can.
>
> > 1. My family tends toward longevity. I often joke that we never
> > really have to do anything to our enemies; we generally outlive them.
>
> > 2. I have no plans to leave this newsgroup. There have been those,
> > over the years, who have attacked me, presumably with the intention
> > of making me drop out. They are no longer here. (A corrollary of
> > #1, sort of.)
>
> > 3. The person to whom you replied is in my killfile. He may indeed
> > exist in real life, but to me, he doesn't.
>
> > So, does anybody agree with me that the REAL classic Szigeti
> > recording of the Brahms Violin Concerto is the one with Harty/Hallé,
> > despite oldish sound?
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Coming from the classic example of penis envy!!! Wagner Fan
td
Dear me. Dickey wants/needs another golden shower; he's started on
dicks again.
Actually, perhaps he doesn't even have one and went and did a
switcheroo.
TD
wagnerfan
>
> - Show quoted text -
Always nice to hear from Deacon's Skipper to Gerard's
Gilligan!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wagner fan
Bob Lombard
> Bob Lombard<thorste...@vermontel.net> appears to have caused the
> following letters to be typed in news:6bDBn.230823$Up1.65386@en-nntp-
> 09.dc1.easynews.com:
>
>> But there will not always be Tepper. Enjoy his repartee while you can.
>
> 1. My family tends toward longevity. I often joke that we never really have
> to do anything to our enemies; we generally outlive them.
>
> 2. I have no plans to leave this newsgroup. There have been those, over the
> years, who have attacked me, presumably with the intention of making me drop
> out. They are no longer here. (A corrollary of #1, sort of.)
>
> 3. The person to whom you replied is in my killfile. He may indeed exist in
> real life, but to me, he doesn't.
>
> So, does anybody agree with me that the REAL classic Szigeti recording of the
> Brahms Violin Concerto is the one with Harty/Hallé, despite oldish sound?
>
I do. It is not The Szigeti Document for me, that's the Prokofieff
1st; an astounding musical statement.
Even living in the smog, you will hopefully outlast me, Matthew; I
have too many years on you.
Dontait...@aol.com
> On 4/27/2010 11:52 AM, Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
{edits}
> > So, does anybody agree with me that the REAL classic Szigeti recording of the
> > Brahms Violin Concerto is the one with Harty/Hall , despite oldish sound?
>
> I do. It is not The Szigeti Document for me, that's the Prokofieff
> 1st; an astounding musical statement.
I agree about Szigeti and Harty in the Brahms. His finest commercial
recording of it, although the circa 1946 version with Ormandy in
Philadelphia is also superb (weird recorded sound, though). Prokofiev
#1 is also great -- outstanding indeed. For me, so is the Szigeti/
Beecham/LPO Mendelssohn E Minor Concerto. Stunning. The greatest I
know, I think. (Szigeti loved it too and was very proud of it.)
Don Tait
Matthew B. Tepper
> I do. It is not The Szigeti Document for me, that's the Prokofieff
> 1st; an astounding musical statement.
>
> Even living in the smog, you will hopefully outlast me, Matthew; I
> have too many years on you.
Well, Bob, I hope you have many years of health, happiness, and music, yet to
come.
Matthew B. Tepper
typed in news:52639e8f-728a-4884-b2a7-
56adc3...@o12g2000vba.googlegroups.com:
> On Apr 27, 2:37�pm, Bob Lombard <thorsteinnos...@vermontel.net> wrote:
>> On 4/27/2010 11:52 AM, Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
>
> {edits}
>
>> > So, does anybody agree with me that the REAL classic Szigeti recording
>> > of the Brahms Violin Concerto is the one with Harty/Hall, despite
>> > oldish sound?
>>
>> I do. It is not The Szigeti Document for me, that's the Prokofieff
>> 1st; an astounding musical statement.
>
> I agree about Szigeti and Harty in the Brahms. His finest commercial
> recording of it, although the circa 1946 version with Ormandy in
> Philadelphia is also superb (weird recorded sound, though). Prokofiev
> #1 is also great -- outstanding indeed. For me, so is the Szigeti/
> Beecham/LPO Mendelssohn E Minor Concerto. Stunning. The greatest I
> know, I think. (Szigeti loved it too and was very proud of it.)
What method was Columbia using for making orchestral recordings in 1946?
Slightly too early for tape, maybe; did they record onto some sort of a
master and make dubs from playing that back?
Bob Lombard
> Dontait...@aol.com appears to have caused the following letters to be
> typed in news:52639e8f-728a-4884-b2a7-
> 56adc3...@o12g2000vba.googlegroups.com:
>
>>
>> I agree about Szigeti and Harty in the Brahms. His finest commercial
>> recording of it, although the circa 1946 version with Ormandy in
>> Philadelphia is also superb (weird recorded sound, though). Prokofiev
>> #1 is also great -- outstanding indeed. For me, so is the Szigeti/
>> Beecham/LPO Mendelssohn E Minor Concerto. Stunning. The greatest I
>> know, I think. (Szigeti loved it too and was very proud of it.)
>
> What method was Columbia using for making orchestral recordings in 1946?
> Slightly too early for tape, maybe; did they record onto some sort of a
> master and make dubs from playing that back?
>
Interesting question. 1946 wasn't too early for wire though, and that
would make 'weird recorded sound' a given. I saw just recently here
references to wire recordings - hard to believe that Columbia would
use that system though.
It's snowing out there. No, not being facetious; it's snowing out there.
Dontait...@aol.com
> What method was Columbia using for making orchestral recordings in 1946? �
> Slightly too early for tape, maybe; did they record onto some sort of a
> master and make dubs from playing that back?
Essentially, yes. After 1939 American Columbia made masters at the
sessions on 16" lacquer discs, with side-breaks, which they
subsequently dubbed for the commercial 78 releases. I have read that
two copies of each lacquer was made at sessions: one for dubbing and
one to be filed away unplayed for possible future use for LPs (Peter
Goldmark had begun to envision 33-1/3 LPs as early as 1939, but then
World War II stopped everything.) When Columbia introduced the LP in
1948 they went back to their lacquer masters, dubbed them onto the new-
fangled tape, and used those masters to make their LPs. Which is why
Columbia's LP versions of recordings sound better than their 78
counterparts -- sometimes radically so.
The thing with the Szigeti/Ormandy Brahms on Columbia (circa 1946)
isn't really bad sound (on the LP it's good -- on the 78s it's
typically rather crummy); it's the perspective on Szigeti. It sounds
as if the engineers set up their microphones in the Academy of Music
without any microphone(s) on him at all. The orchestra is a bit
distant, and so is Szigeti, as if one is in a balcony listening to him
down below on the stage amidst the orchestra. It's in fact rather
interesting. Seldom encountered in concerto recordings in my
experience.
A final note: USA Columbia's recording method, masters later dubbed
for 78 issue, wasn't used by other companies.
Don Tait
Bob Harper
> Dontait...@aol.com appears to have caused the following letters to be
> typed in news:52639e8f-728a-4884-b2a7-
> 56adc3...@o12g2000vba.googlegroups.com:
>
>> On Apr 27, 2:37�pm, Bob Lombard<thorsteinnos...@vermontel.net> wrote:
>>> On 4/27/2010 11:52 AM, Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
>>
>> {edits}
>>
>>>> So, does anybody agree with me that the REAL classic Szigeti recording
>>>> of the Brahms Violin Concerto is the one with Harty/Hall, despite
>>>> oldish sound?
>>>
>>> I do. It is not The Szigeti Document for me, that's the Prokofieff
>>> 1st; an astounding musical statement.
>>
>> I agree about Szigeti and Harty in the Brahms. His finest commercial
>> recording of it, although the circa 1946 version with Ormandy in
>> Philadelphia is also superb (weird recorded sound, though). Prokofiev
>> #1 is also great -- outstanding indeed. For me, so is the Szigeti/
>> Beecham/LPO Mendelssohn E Minor Concerto. Stunning. The greatest I
>> know, I think. (Szigeti loved it too and was very proud of it.)
>
> What method was Columbia using for making orchestral recordings in 1946?
> Slightly too early for tape, maybe; did they record onto some sort of a
> master and make dubs from playing that back?
>
something about that. The booklet for the Reiner/Pittsburgh
Beethoven/Mozart (1945-46) disc in the much-lamented Sony Masterworks
Heritage series offers the following:
"For recordings made before tape masters became common in commercial
recording (around 1949), Sony classical engineers have gone back to the
rare surviving metal masters, lacquer discs produced directly in the
recording process, or mint-condition shellac pressings."
I'm thinking the "lacquer discs produced directly in the recording
process" might be the 'glass' masters I mention above.
Maybe Don Tait can enlighten us.
Bob Harper
wagnerfan
Fascinating stuff - thanks for the info. Wagner fan
td
The Szigeti Document for me, that's the Prokofieff
> 1st; an astounding musical statement.
Correct.
TD
Bob Harper
(snip)
> Maybe Don Tait can enlighten us.
>
> Bob Harper
Which I note that he did, quite completely, seven minutes *before* my
post :)
Thanks, Don!
Bob Harper
Matthew B. Tepper
@q21g2000vbd.googlegroups.com:
> On Apr 27, 2:59 pm, "Matthew B. Tepper" <oy兀earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> What method was Columbia using for making orchestral recordings in 1946?
>
>> Slightly too early for tape, maybe; did they record onto some sort of a
>> master and make dubs from playing that back?
>
> Essentially, yes. After 1939 American Columbia made masters at the
> sessions on 16" lacquer discs, with side-breaks, which they subsequently
> dubbed for the commercial 78 releases. I have read that two copies of
> each lacquer was made at sessions: one for dubbing and one to be filed
> away unplayed for possible future use for LPs (Peter Goldmark had begun
> to envision 33-1/3 LPs as early as 1939, but then World War II stopped
> everything.) When Columbia introduced the LP in 1948 they went back to
> their lacquer masters, dubbed them onto the new-fangled tape, and used
> those masters to make their LPs. Which is why Columbia's LP versions of
> recordings sound better than their 78 counterparts -- sometimes radically
> so.
>
> The thing with the Szigeti/Ormandy Brahms on Columbia (circa 1946)
> isn't really bad sound (on the LP it's good -- on the 78s it's typically
> rather crummy); it's the perspective on Szigeti. It sounds as if the
> engineers set up their microphones in the Academy of Music without any
> microphone(s) on him at all. The orchestra is a bit distant, and so is
> Szigeti, as if one is in a balcony listening to him down below on the
> stage amidst the orchestra. It's in fact rather interesting. Seldom
> encountered in concerto recordings in my experience.
>
> A final note: USA Columbia's recording method, masters later dubbed
> for 78 issue, wasn't used by other companies.
Thanks for the detailed and informative response.