Brahms Violin Concerto
Matthew Silverstein
looking through my collection today (as I was trying to track down all of
my recordings of the Mendelssohn concerto), and I realized that I only have
three: Heifetz/Reiner (RCA), Mutter/Karajan (DG), and Zehetmair/Somebody
(Teldec, I think). I haven't listened to the Zehetmair in quite some time,
but I love the Heifetz, and I enjoy the Mutter when I'm in the mood for
something lush and powerful. (Too bad the BPO winds are almost inaudible in
tuttis.)
Any recommendations? I'm open to anything from historical recordings to HIP
recordings--I generally like to have a broad spectrum of interpretations.
Matty
Matthew Silverstein
> What are people's favorite recordings of the Brahms violin concerto? I was
> looking through my collection today (as I was trying to track down all of
> my recordings of the Mendelssohn concerto), and I realized that I only have
> three: Heifetz/Reiner (RCA), Mutter/Karajan (DG), and Zehetmair/Somebody
> (Teldec, I think).
I just realized I have a fourth: Sitkovetsky/Marriner on Hannsler. I've
only listened once, but it made a good impression.
Matty
Matthew Silverstein
> I just realized I have a fourth: Sitkovetsky/Marriner on Hannsler. I've
> only listened once, but it made a good impression.
And a fifth: Oistrakh's mono recording on DG (I have it filed under Bach,
and I didn't think to look there).
Matty
Richard Loeb
news:1mj9nfjm6se88$.buwmrlxpvl9n.dlg@40tude.net...
I have fond memories of the Monteux-Szering Richard
Matthew Silverstein
> And a fifth: Oistrakh's mono recording on DG (I have it filed under Bach,
> and I didn't think to look there).
Oy--and a sixth: Milstein on EMI (filed under Beethoven, naturally). Maybe
I don't need any more, since I clearly have several I haven't listened to
in a while.
Matty
Steven de Mena
I bet you'll find the Perlman/Giulini recording if you keep digging.
Steve
wkas...@comcast.net
Matthew Silverstein wrote:
> Oy--and a sixth: Milstein on EMI (filed under Beethoven, naturally).
I recommend this one.
Bill
Paul Kintzele
> Maybe I don't need any more
*Shock* *horror*
Careful--words like that can get you expelled from this group.
You already have many worthy versions, but among recent accounts, Hilary
Hahn's performance with Marriner/ASMF is a contender--sweet tone, but
with a laserlike focus. Recorded sound is exemplary, and the Stravinsky
coupling is also very fine. Some years ago, I saw Hahn play the Brahms
concerto with Sawallisch/Philly--an amazing performance.
Paul
Frank Berger
There are so many. I'm going with Victor Tretyakov (cond. Fedoseyev) on
Olympia 102
not because it's better than a lot of others, but so that I can ask if
anyone knows when it was recorded? I also would like the recording date of
the accompanying Schumann Cello Concerto with Lusanov (cond.
Rozhdestvensky).
A few others than pop into mind are Krebbers/Haitink, Oistrakh/Konswitschny,
You'll get so many opinions that they'll probably be of little use to you.
Frank Berger
If only that was Julian.
Frank Berger
Careful, you are in danger of offending Norman.
Rich S.
<msil...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Any recommendations? I'm open to anything from historical recordings to HIP
>recordings--I generally like to have a broad spectrum of interpretations.
>
>Matty
I'm fond of the Szigeti / Harty recording. It's from the 30's, but
that's never bothered me. -Rich
Frank Berger
"Rich S." <schiebel*nos...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:q5urp11fvm4omllm2...@4ax.com...
1928 actually. I like that also.
Scou...@provide.net
<schiebel*nos...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>>I'm fond of the Szigeti / Harty recording. It's from the 30's, but
>that's never bothered me. -Rich
I will also vote for this recording as well as the
Menuhin\Furtwangler and the Erica Morini recording with Rodzinski.
S.
Matthew Silverstein
> I bet you'll find the Perlman/Giulini recording if you keep digging.
I know I've never owned that one!
Matty
Vaneyes
Matthew Silverstein wrote:
> What are people's favorite recordings of the Brahms violin concerto?
Oistrakh/Klemperer (EMI Encore).
Regards
tomdeacon
BINGO!
Give this man a cigar!
TD
Sacqueboutier
I second both if these. One that I haven't seen mentioned and I've
turned to it most often lately...
Milstein/Jochum on DGG. Don't know if it's on CD or not. I have a
transfer from an open reel.
In addtion to Milstein's wonderful sense of phrasing and color, you get
Jochum at the helm. He's is
easily one of my favorite Brahms conductors.
--
Best wishes,
Sacqueboutier
Richard Loeb
<wkas...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1134423458.7...@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Richard Loeb
"Sacqueboutier" <nos...@nocomspamcast.net> wrote in message
news:2005121218140950073-nospam@nocomspamcastnet...
Paul Ilechko
Milstein/Fistoulari
Paul Goldstein
better.
Good modern stereo versions: Krebbers/Haitink, Grumiaux/Davis, Szeryng/Monteux.
I like Oistrakh/Szell better than Oistrakh/Klemperer.
Mike
> > Oistrakh/Klemperer (EMI Encore).
>
> BINGO!
>
> Give this man a cigar!
Yes, Mr Deacon, from the Lewinski box?
Mike
Scou...@provide.net
An excellent choice......!
S.
tomdeacon
Some people are so vulgar when they get a chance.
Poor Monica!
TD
Alan Cooper
If that's Oistrakh/Konwitschny, you have his best studio recording.
You do not need O/Klemperer or O/Szell. You do need some
historicals, esp. Szigeti/Harty, Kreisler/Blech, and
Krebbers/Mengelberg. There are about a zillion good stereo
recordings. See Paul Goldstein's recommendation of three of them. If
you like Szeryng/Monteux, you'll want to hear the live
Milstein/Monteux with the Concertgebouw, too. Lately I've developed a
lot of affection for Ferras/Karajan. It's really gorgeous, and Ferras
scores points with me by playing the wonderful Kreisler cadenza in the
first movement (so does Kreisler ;-). I've been on something of a
Ferras binge recently. What a fine player he was!
AC
Sacqueboutier
Pot...kettle...black.
--
Best wishes,
Sacqueboutier
Todd Schurk
Here is a favorite that has not been mentioned-Scneiderhan/Van
Kempen/Berlin Philharmonic.
Steve Emerson
Matthew Silverstein <msil...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Monday, December 12, 2005, Matthew Silverstein wrote:
>
> > I just realized I have a fourth: Sitkovetsky/Marriner on Hannsler. I've
> > only listened once, but it made a good impression.
>
> And a fifth: Oistrakh's mono recording on DG (I have it filed under Bach,
> and I didn't think to look there).
I'll second Alan -- this is Oistrakh's greatest studio recording, with
much to recommend it that lacks in the Klemperer and Szell accounts. The
fiery recording with Kondrashin (and Oistrakh) is, however,
indispensable.
Also pretty fiery, I would recommend Francescatti/Bernstein.
And if you've got an extra dollar-fifty in your pocket, Mincho Minchev.
SE.
Mark Melson
that was available for a long time (and maybe still is?) on Sony
Essential Classics. Stern is in excellent shape, with silken tone and
a nice balance of power and poetry. Ormandy's approach to Brahms -
rich and weighty - is a little out of fashion today, but I love it.
This is one of Stern's very best recordings, catching him in his
prime.
Mark Melson
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 21:09:15 GMT, Matthew Silverstein
Simon Roberts
says...
>
>On Monday, December 12, 2005, Matthew Silverstein wrote:
>
>> And a fifth: Oistrakh's mono recording on DG (I have it filed under Bach,
>> and I didn't think to look there).
>
>in a while.
Yes, you do - at least for the conducting: Krebbers/Mengelberg, Milstein/Sabata
and (for the finale) Kremer/Bernstein. Of those I've heard, these three are in
a class by themselves as far as conducting goes (the violin playing in the first
two is hardly to be sneezed at either).
Simon
Simon Roberts
>
>I second both if these. One that I haven't seen mentioned and I've
>turned to it most often lately...
>Milstein/Jochum on DGG. Don't know if it's on CD or not.
It was briefly in one of DG's odder cheap twofers.
I have a
>transfer from an open reel.
>In addtion to Milstein's wonderful sense of phrasing and color, you get
>Jochum at the helm. He's is
>easily one of my favorite Brahms conductors.
And easily the sourest sounding oboe in any recording I've heard of the
piece.... (but yes, one of the better conducted stereo efforts).
Simon
Paul Ilechko
I didn't like Kremer at all in either the VC or the Double Concerto with
Bernstein.
Satid S.
I second this performance. This was my very first encounter with
Brahms' VC about 15 years ago. It is coupled with a nice Violin Sonata
no. 1. Ferras' solo part is clean and admirably clear while BPO's
contribution is good (if only its recorded sound were just a bit
clearer). Australian Eloquence reissueed this CD not long ago.
Since I bought his one, several others followed;
- Hoelcher/Bruno Wiel on EMI : too slow and thus lacks expressive power
in fast passages. The coupling of Bruch's VC #1 on this disk is also a
bot slow but better than Brahms'.
- Oistrakh/Klemperer on EMI : Good performance with decent recorded
sound that turns out too muddy in tutti. The coupling of Mozart's
Sinfonia Concertante by Oistrakh father/son is superb.
- Sitkovetsky/Marriner on Hanssler : the best sound that I have for
this work but too slow in fast passages. I prefer Mendelssohn's VC on
this disk.
- Perlman/Giulini on EMI : good but not surpassing Ferras/HvK. And no
coupling is a minor drawback.
I wonder if Ferras' LvB VC with HvK/BPO on DG is worth collecting ?
Satid S.
Sacqueboutier
Oboe didn't bother me here as much as he did in Barbirolli's Brahms cycle...
especially in the 4th symphony. (Let go of that cat's tail, dammit!)
--
Best wishes,
Sacqueboutier
Paul Kintzele
> Hmmmm I have been eyeing his [Jochum's] Brahms symphonies on DG originals
Do not hesitate for a second. An astonishing cycle of performances.
Paul
Matthew B. Tepper
Barton/Kalmar
P. Berman/Altrichter
Chung/Rattle
Grumiaux/van Beinum*
Heifetz/Toscanini*
Heifetz/Koussevitzky
Heifetz/Reiner
Kreisler/Blech*
Kreisler/Barbirolli
Martzy/Kletzki
Menuhin/Boult
Menuhin/Furtwängler*
Neveu/Dobrowen*
Neveu/Desormière
Neveu/Schmidt-Isserstedt
Neveu/Dorati
D. Oistrakh/Klemperer
D. Oistrakh/Kondrashin
D. Oistrakh/Szell*
Perlman/Giulini
Renardy/Munch
Stern/Beecham
Szigeti/Harty*
Szigeti/Ormandy
Szigeti/Mitropoulos
Szigeti/Munch
Zimbalist/Koussevitzky*
The starred ones are those which (at the moment anyway) I find quite
special.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made. ~ FDR (attrib.)
Matthew B. Tepper
following letters to be typed in
news:emersn-8CFC23....@nnrp-virt.nntp.sonic.net:
> And if you've got an extra dollar-fifty in your pocket, Mincho Minchev.
This evening for that dollar-fifty I got Menuhin's recording of the Nielsen.
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:oMrnf.46889$%i.4...@tornado.texas.rr.com:
I once saw his EMI remakes get an astonishingly unfavorable review (from a
not-so-trusted reviewer, admittedly). What are they like?
William Quentin
"Matthew Silverstein" <msil...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:auozuxaqwhft.1o...@40tude.net...
> What are people's favorite recordings of the Brahms violin concerto? I was
> looking through my collection today (as I was trying to track down all of
> my recordings of the Mendelssohn concerto), and I realized that I only
> have
> three: Heifetz/Reiner (RCA), Mutter/Karajan (DG), and Zehetmair/Somebody
> (Teldec, I think). I haven't listened to the Zehetmair in quite some time,
> but I love the Heifetz, and I enjoy the Mutter when I'm in the mood for
> something lush and powerful. (Too bad the BPO winds are almost inaudible
> in
> tuttis.)
>
> Any recommendations? I'm open to anything from historical recordings to
> HIP
> recordings--I generally like to have a broad spectrum of interpretations.
>
> Matty
I have more recordings of Brahms's VC than just about any other piece, I
think. It was the first piece of classical music that I seriously started
to collect (actually, it's about the only piece I have lots of different
recordings of), and it's still just about my favorite piece of music.
Anyway, of all the recordings I have, the one I listen to most often is Zino
Francescatti's recording on Sony, with Leonard Bernstein conducting the NY
Philharmonic. It's on one of those Sony Prince Charles special edition CDs,
and you get a very excellent recording of the Sibelius violin concerto as
well.
-Billy
Frank Berger
"Joe Vitale" <ru...@ironeedle.com> wrote in message
news:Xns972ADFB5EA7C8...@216.196.97.131...> news:auozuxaqwhft.1o...@40tude.net:
>
>> Any recommendations?
>
> I recently received (via an eBay auction) the live Mullova performance
> recorded in Tokyo with the touring Berlin Philharmonic and Abbado.
> Sometimes recorded-live performances are advertised as "electric" and fall
> short, but this one doesn't, as it really does hold your attention. I
> believe it's out of print (naturally) but it's well worth seeking out.
>
> Among other newer performances, I would give a nod to another live
> recording from the mid-nineties: Maxim Vengerov with Barenboim/Chicago on
> Teldec. Perhaps not the warmest of performances, but sometimes just a
> little ice from a Siberian violinist with nerves of steel is all it takes
> to warm up the stage.
>
As predicted, every recording of the Brahms VC ever made has now been
recommended. Well, almost.
Dave Cook
> What are people's favorite recordings of the Brahms violin concerto?
Szeryng/Monteux. I have this on one of those French RCA wallet-style
twofers with the awful cover art.
http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//74321845882.htm
Dave Cook
Dave Cook
> Szeryng/Monteux. I have this on one of those French RCA wallet-style
> twofers with the awful cover art.
>
> http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//74321845882.htm
Also http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=58920
Oh, and if you need to spend more cash, there's an XRCD:
Dave Cook
Matthew Silverstein
> Anyway, of all the recordings I have, the one I listen to most often is Zino
> Francescatti's recording on Sony, with Leonard Bernstein conducting the NY
> Philharmonic. It's on one of those Sony Prince Charles special edition CDs,
> and you get a very excellent recording of the Sibelius violin concerto as
> well.
How many times did Francescatti record this for Sony? I seem to recall
coming across a recording with Mitropolous (on Masterwords Heritage)
and one with Szell (on Essential Classics).
Matty
mark_str...@yahoo.co.uk
Frank Berger wrote:
> As predicted, every recording of the Brahms VC ever made has now been
> recommended.
LOL ;-)
Hey - has Pinchas Zukerman ever recorded it..? I can't remember him
ever having played the piece (in London at least).
mark stratford
tomdeacon
Yes, Mark.
He recorded it with the Los Angeles Philharmonic under Zubin Mehta for
RC A Victor. It was coupled with the Bruch No. 1 on 0926-68046-2.
TD
Matthew Silverstein
> How many times did Francescatti record this for Sony? I seem to recall
> coming across a recording with Mitropolous (on Masterwords Heritage)
> and one with Szell (on Essential Classics).
No, no, no. I did not have a good day yesterday. Those are his
recordings of the Mendelssohn concerto. Sheesh.
Matty
Sacqueboutier
> Paul Kintzele <pgk...@yahoo.com> appears to have caused the following
> letters to be typed in news:oMrnf.46889$%i.4...@tornado.texas.rr.com:
>> Richard Loeb wrote:
>>
>>> Hmmmm I have been eyeing his [Jochum's] Brahms symphonies on DG
>>> originals
>>
>> Do not hesitate for a second. An astonishing cycle of performances.
>
> I once saw his EMI remakes get an astonishingly unfavorable review
> (from a not-so-trusted reviewer, admittedly). What are they like?
Played by the LPO. They aren't quite as flexible as the DGG accounts,
but I don't really think they
are nearly as bad as some make out. As opposed to his earlier
recordings, he withdrew from Romantic excess
and focused more on the Classical roots. I find them well played,
clear in texture, and maybe a bit "straight"
compared to Furty. I have the set on LP, and rather like it.
Who was the reviewer?
--
Best wishes,
Sacqueboutier
Philip Peters
Steven de Mena
"Matthew B. Tepper" <oy兀earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:Xns972ACE34CEC...@207.217.125.201.gnresend...
> Paul Kintzele <pgk...@yahoo.com> appears to have caused the following
> letters to be typed in news:oMrnf.46889$%i.4...@tornado.texas.rr.com:
>
> not-so-trusted reviewer, admittedly). What are they like?
They were uploaded recently to the newsgroups (I believe) if you want to
audition them. I haven't heard them yet.
Steve
Simon Roberts
I'm recommending it for the conducting.
Simon
Steven de Mena
"tomdeacon" <tomde...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:1134481397.2...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
It was re-released in 2003 in a 24bit/96kHz remaster on BMG 82876 55268-2.
Same coupling.
Steve
Matthew B. Tepper
following letters to be typed in news:2005121309263577904-
nospam@nocomspamcastnet:
Hewell Tircuit, in the San Francisco Chronicle c. 1979.
Brian Burtt
"Paul Kintzele" <pgk...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Rnmnf.41577$Au1....@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> Matthew Silverstein wrote:
>
> > Maybe I don't need any more
>
>
> Careful--words like that can get you expelled from this group.
>
> You already have many worthy versions, but among recent accounts, Hilary
> Hahn's performance with Marriner/ASMF is a contender--sweet tone, but with
> a laserlike focus. Recorded sound is exemplary, and the Stravinsky
> coupling is also very fine. Some years ago, I saw Hahn play the Brahms
> concerto with Sawallisch/Philly--an amazing performance.
>
> Paul
>
I was going to recomend Hahn as well. I actually find the Brahms VC tough
to warm up to--I'm more likely to listen to this disc for the
Stravinsky--but both are excellent performances.
--Brian
Sacqueboutier
> Sacqueboutier <nos...@nocomspamcast.net> appears to have caused the
> following letters to be typed in news:2005121309263577904-
> nospam@nocomspamcastnet:
>
>> On 2005-12-12 23:16:13 -0500, "Matthew B. Tepper" <oyş@earthlink.net>
> said:
>>
>>> Paul Kintzele <pgk...@yahoo.com> appears to have caused the following
>>> letters to be typed in news:oMrnf.46889$%i.4...@tornado.texas.rr.com:
>>>> Richard Loeb wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hmmmm I have been eyeing his [Jochum's] Brahms symphonies on DG
>>>>> originals
>>>>
>>>> Do not hesitate for a second. An astonishing cycle of performances.
>>>
>>> I once saw his EMI remakes get an astonishingly unfavorable review
>>> (from a not-so-trusted reviewer, admittedly). What are they like?
>>
>> Played by the LPO. They aren't quite as flexible as the DGG accounts,
>> but I don't really think they are nearly as bad as some make out. As
>> opposed to his earlier recordings, he withdrew from Romantic excess
>> and focused more on the Classical roots. I find them well played,
>> clear in texture, and maybe a bit "straight" compared to Furty. I have
>> the set on LP, and rather like it.
>>
>> Who was the reviewer?
>
> Hewell Tircuit, in the San Francisco Chronicle c. 1979.
Yeah, I've always considered his articles the epitome of pretentiousness.
Regarding Jochum/Brahms II, he's wrong. Don't expect it to be like the
DGG set (with what
was essentially Furtwangler's BPO), but it has its own merits.
I think I'll transfer my LPs to CDR.
--
Best wishes,
Sacqueboutier
Frank Berger
"Steven de Mena" <st...@stevedemena.com> wrote in message
news:ZMadnSWeIrh...@comcast.com...
That's two Zuckerman's now. Both indespensible for the serious collector, of
course.
tomdeacon
Frank Berger wrote:
> That's two Zuckerman's now. Both indespensible for the serious collector, of
> course.
Taking your comments ironically, Frank - hell, how else can one take
your posts? - I would say that you are off the mark.
IF Pinky had bothered to stick to what he can do best and practise he
would have distanced Perlman and most of his colleagues quite easily.
But I think he got bored of the actual time he had to spend with the
instrument.
When he was "on", he was a fabulously gifted violinist. And perhaps he
can still do it today. Just don't know.
TD
Steven de Mena
I read a recent interview with Zukerman where they basically came right out
and said the same thing you did. I can't remember what he said, I think he
tried to dispute the fact Perlman has had a more successful career than he
has. If the interview was online I can't seem to find it.
I haven't seen anyone mention the Anne-Sophie Metter/Kurt Masur recording.
I'll have to go back and listen to that one after I finish the Zukerman. I
remember it being quite emotional. The performance was dedicated to her late
husband who had recently died.
Steve
peter_s...@hotmail.com
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the Bronislaw Hubermann
performance available on Music & Arts (CD-1122) with Artur Rodzinski
leading the New York Philharmonic on January 23, 1944. Hubermann was
very much a one of a kind and like it or not there is a point of view,
something that can't be said for many of those mentioned. In 1896 the
fourteen year old Hubermann performed the concerto in the composer's
presence. At the end of the Finale, Brahms embraced the young boy
saying, "You should not have played so beautifully; you are a genius,
my son!"
The EMI DVD with Szeryng is also hard to top (Paray conducting), as are
any of the Heifetz performances in circulation. Szigeti/Harty and also
Ormandy are stellar as are Milstein/Steinberg and most of the available
Kogan and Oistrakh recordings/performances (fifteen or so at last
count) are pretty much the equal of any.
Peter Schenkman
Chris
> What are people's favorite recordings of the Brahms violin concerto?
Milstein/Monteux
Krebbers/Haitink
(both with the RCO)
Heifetz/Reiner
(CSO)
Shaham/Abbado
(BPO, dvd)
Any good HIP recordings?
Chris
Paul Ilechko
>>I didn't like Kremer at all in either the VC or the Double Concerto with
>>Bernstein.
>
>
> I'm recommending it for the conducting.
I know, but it's hard to ignore the soloists ;-)
Simon Roberts
No; nor are there any bad ones (I don't know of any HIP recordings of the piece
at all).
Simon
Simon Roberts
Well, yes, but since just about everyone has been ignoring the orchestra's
contribution, and I can't....
Simon
Alan Cooper
<eme...@nospamsonic.net> wrote:
>And if you've got an extra dollar-fifty in your pocket, Mincho Minchev.
Yes. Minchev! One of the all-time great "sleepers." People generally
are flabbergasted to hear a performance of this quality by artists
they've never heard of. (The Bulgarian orchestra is excellent as
well.)
AC
Alan Cooper
<oy@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Paul Kintzele <pgk...@yahoo.com> appears to have caused the following
>letters to be typed in news:oMrnf.46889$%i.4...@tornado.texas.rr.com:
>
>> Richard Loeb wrote:
>>
>>> Hmmmm I have been eyeing his [Jochum's] Brahms symphonies on DG
>>> originals
>>
>> Do not hesitate for a second. An astonishing cycle of performances.
>
>I once saw his EMI remakes get an astonishingly unfavorable review (from a
>not-so-trusted reviewer, admittedly). What are they like?
The DG performances are generally taut, brisk, exciting, and
wonderfully played. There is no comparison with the EMI set, which is
inferior in every respect, imo. It is worth the price of the DG set
just to have Jochum's #2 finale.
AC
Gerard
Can Swensen (Lin) be considered as HIP?
Lena
You're not sufficiently focused on the percussion section. :)
Sorry, I can't recommend anything, since I can't seem to detach myself
from the Oistrakh/Konwitschny (Matty already has that). At most I'd
get another Oistrakh. :) (I.e. never accept a CD recommendation from
a love-struck listener.)
Lena
The Historian
> "Matthew B. Tepper" <oyþ@earthlink.net> wrote in
> news:Xns972ACE313C7...@207.217.125.201.gnresend:
>> special.
>
> Matthew, when you decide to cull some of those not-so-special performances,
> let me know:
Careful, you may get a disc of a Furtwangler violin sonata instead. :-)
abac...@att.net
in the NY Phil who was really impressed. He was quite surprised that it
was Z. Yes, he has tremendous natural talent, great than Perlman for
sure
AB
Matthew Silverstein
> Yes, you do - at least for the conducting: Krebbers/Mengelberg, Milstein/Sabata
> and (for the finale) Kremer/Bernstein.
Is that the recording that comes in the DG budget box along with
Bernstein's recording of the symphonies?
Matty
Ronit
an excellent Heifetz/Munch Beethoven VC on RCA red seal.
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in
Or worse, TWO!
Matthew B. Tepper
in news:1134520782.3...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
> TD is right about Zuckerman. I played the Vieuxtemps VC5 for my friend
> in the NY Phil who was really impressed. He was quite surprised that it
> was Z. Yes, he has tremendous natural talent, great than Perlman for
> sure
I once tried to persuade him to add the Nielsen concerto to his repertoire,
but he didn't like the work's odd construction, probably the first movement
with its lengthy introduction.
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in
The first two I'd happily get rid of, but they're each 2-CD sets in which
the other disc is the reason for ownership.
Simon Roberts
Silverstein says...
Yes (though I have a much older incarnation). I can't say I would recommend the
rest of the contents of that box, though....
Simon
tomdeacon
You know, you can't just be right when you want to be.
That said, we both might be wrong.
TD
P.S. I would stop quoting this "friend in the NYPhil" without providing
his or her name. Nobody knows what kind of musician he is. He could be
one of those cynical "play for the money" guys, for all we know.
Matthew Silverstein
> Yes (though I have a much older incarnation). I can't say I would recommend the
> rest of the contents of that box, though....
I've heard at least 2 (1 and 4, perhaps) of Bernstein's DG Brahms
symphonies, and I quite liked both (although neither are favorites).
It's so cheap from BMG I decided to give it a try (my order had free
shipping, don't worry).
Matty
abac...@att.net
AB
abac...@att.net
tomdeacon wrote:
> This must mean that I CAN hear after all, Arri.
>
> You know, you can't just be right when you want to be.
>
> That said, we both might be wrong.
>
> TD
for a split second I tought you MIGHT have a semblance of a musical ear
but after reading that outrageous praise of Hatto in the Prokofiev
sonata all hope is lost.... (forever)!! (Not that I have heard the
recording)
AB
> P.S. I would stop quoting this "friend in the NYPhil" without providing
> his or her name. Nobody knows what kind of musician he is. He could be
> one of those cynical "play for the money" guys, for all we know.
he is an older Russian, that is as far as I wiil go. If he was able
to have passed the audition for the NY Phil first violin section in
his early 50s he must be good enuf....
I know him through our mutual admiration of Kreisler.
So far as "cynical" goes, NOBODY beats TD
AB
>> > > TD
wkas...@comcast.net
Richard Loeb wrote:
> >> Oy--and a sixth: Milstein on EMI (filed under Beethoven, naturally).
> >
> > I recommend this one.
> Is that Milstein with Steinberg????
Yes.
Bill
Gerard
Some earlier cases.
Tepper 14 jan 2000:
(I once trudged down a hallway with Pinchas Zukerman, trying in
vain to get him to agree to play the work in Minneapolis; I was about as
successful as I was trying to get Tennstedt to conduct Zemlinsky),
Tepper 4 jun 2000:
I wish you better luck than when I tried to persuade Pinchas Zukerman to
play the Nielsen Concerto!
Tepper 26 dec 2000:
I know it's useless name-dropping, for which I shall be amply and justly
chided, but I once tried to persuade Pinchas Zukerman to play the Nielsen.
He considered it "uninteresting." There. Now I'll take my lumps.
Tepper 15 mrt 2001:
Once I tried to persuade him to take up the Nielsen Concerto,
and he dismissed it out of hand as uninteresting.
Tepper 26 feb 2002:
I tried to persuade Pinchas Zukerman to take
up the Nielsen Violin Concerto
Tepper 2 jun 2002:
I tried once to persuade Pinky to play and record this piece; but he wasn't
interested, at least in part because of the long discursive introduction.
Tepper 14 mrt 2003:
Similarly, I tried to
persuade Pinchas Zukerman to play the Nielsen Violin Concerto, but he
thought it was too oddly-constructed a piece.
Tepper 1 jun 2003:
I tried some years ago to persuade Pinchas Zukerman that he ought to
perform and record the piece, as I think it would have been ideally suited
to his temperament. Unfortunately, he doesn't like the structure of the
work (that long intro, for one thing), which leads me to suspect that he
hadn't really studied it at length and just thought it wasn't showy enough.
Tepper 11 feb 2005:
I once tried in vain to persuade Pinchas Zukerman to perform it, but he
wasn't interested.
Tepper 13 oct. 2005:
I tried to talk him into playing it, but he wasn't
too keen on it, because of the construction of the first movement.
Matthew Silverstein
> Some earlier cases.
[snip]
Nice.
Matty
Vaneyes
abac...@att.net wrote:
>
> he is an older Russian, that is as far as I wiil go....
That's far enough, being that there's only one in the 1st strings.
Regards
SG
> I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the Bronislaw Hubermann
> performance available on Music & Arts (CD-1122) with Artur Rodzinski
> leading the New York Philharmonic on January 23, 1944. Hubermann was
> very much a one of a kind and like it or not there is a point of view,
> something that can't be said for many of those mentioned. In 1896 the
> fourteen year old Hubermann performed the concerto in the composer's
> presence. At the end of the Finale, Brahms embraced the young boy
> saying, "You should not have played so beautifully; you are a genius,
> my son!"
Even without knowing this distinguished historical trivia (which I do),
I'd possibly find the Huberman version the "best", violin-wise (the
accompaniment is not bad either but not the best imaginable), of all
I've heard. Suffice it to say that I believe Huberman's rendition of
Brahms' Concerto to be five classes above his Beethoven Concerto
versions. I also have an Enescu version which has a lot in common with
Huberman in terms of phrasing, tempo-choices and ardent commitment, but
Enescu was at the time (1950) in worse shape than Huberman in 1944.
Huberman is on best behavior here - inspiration, freedom, intimacy with
the music, the richest imaginable inflections, with no "oddities".
I disagree with esteemed Alan Cooper about a zillion of satisfactory
stereo recordings existing. I haven't heard any, and I heard many. Of
course there are plethoras of recordings in which all the notes are
played at the correct pitch, but I for one am not happy with them. I
like this concerto very much and I heard a lot of recordings of it. Few
of them stand up close musical scrutiny. I will give an example: the
ample violin quasi-cadenza at the beginning of the 1st movement,
obviously inspired by Beethoven's own violin entrance in the 1st
movement of his concerto (an extended D Major-preparing dominant
cadence in Beethoven's case, a more harmonically developed but similar
in function D Major-preparing cadence in Brahms' concerto). This moment
represents the closest to an *improvisation* one gets in this
magisterial composition. The orchestra intones preparatory,
diminished-sevenths-harmonized, distorted elements from the main, D
Major theme, while the violin jumps all over the four strings in
Gypsy-like embelishments, "irrational" metrical divisions employed.
When the thematic material in the orchestral background sounds awfully
muted and the figuration in the violin part sounds awfully measured and
square, too much "in your face" (even the excellent Oistrakh does that
and I'm picking on him *because* he is so good), all in all *too
secure/predictable*, as opposed to improvisationally "embracing" the
thematic divinations in the orchestra, the quasi-spontaneous sublimity
of the subsequent blossoming of the main theme in the violin ("D F# D
B A" etc.) is half lost. It's not only a matter of violin playing and
it's not only a matter of conducting. The two have to both meet with
each other and with the composer's mind.
Another pet complain: the dramatic minor theme played by violin in
chords. The theme has so many dotted rhythms that it often sounds (even
in Oistrakh's magisterial hands) as a monument to stubbornness and
self-centered generic Brahmsian "drama".
(The tam....... ta-tam....... ta-tam....... ta-tam.......
ta-tam........ element.)
What I like to hear there, through dynamic differentiation and larger
perspective, is the great "aspiring élan" of a theme spread over more
than one octave, a theme endowed with a personality going much beyond
the catchy rhythmical profile. (Many of this specifically "dotted
Brahms themes", in other pieces as well, are having their guts exposed
in interpretation, while having their wings cut, if one may use
mixed[-up] metaphors.)
All the positive effects coming from a perfect conductor-soloist
marriage happen to the highest degree, I believe, in the
Krebbers/Mengelberg version. Krebbers wasn't the greatest violinist who
ever lived (intonation suffers here and there, in the live recording we
are talking about), but he shows himself to be able to collaborate in
an ideally musicianly matter with the much older Mengelberg. (I was
surprised to find the one Menuhin-Furtwangler collaboration I know much
less satisfying than their outstanding Beethoven Concerto.)
Perhaps in less ideal a combination, I'd also recommend though as very
highly satisfactory the Szigeti/Harty version, the Kreisler/Barbirolli
version (it has better orchestral playing, even if the older Leo
Blech's Berlinese orchestra has more of a touchingly unassuming 19th
century tone to it), the already mentioned Huberman version (the violin
playing is out of this world), as well as perhaps Milstein/de Sabata
(less perfect than the cheaply available EMI but more intense and
musically penetrating). Enescu's and Adolf Busch's (only the latter is
available, on Arbiter) would be fascinating for the historical
recordings collector and they're musically valuable but rather flawed
technically.
regards,
SG
P.S. Lena, take a break from your Oistrakh. There's a whole world out
there. ( :
tomdeacon
Don't get all excited, Arri.
Tepper just went backstage one time to fawn over the star, and like the
true nerd that he is mouthed some inanities about the Nielsen Violin
Concerto. I suspect that Zukerman took him for exactly what he is and
dealt with him summarily.
You can come to Ottawa and meet him anytime you like. He is very
approachable, in fact.
TD
tomdeacon
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
Perhaps this will be the LAST time Tepper tries to rererererelease that
story.
TD
Raymond Hall
news:1134600578.2...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Is he still in love with Jeanne Lamon?
Ray H
Taree
Alan Cooper
>I disagree with esteemed Alan Cooper about a zillion of satisfactory
>stereo recordings existing. I haven't heard any, and I heard many. Of
>course there are plethoras of recordings in which all the notes are
>played at the correct pitch, but I for one am not happy with them. I
>like this concerto very much and I heard a lot of recordings of it. Few
>of them stand up close musical scrutiny.
I agree, actually, and since this is probably my single favorite piece
of music, I have devoted an inordinate amount of time and energy to
collecting and listening to recordings of it. "Satisfactory" is not
the same as "great," nor would *my* definition of "a satisfactory
recording" be "a recording that makes Samir happy." Be that as it
may, I also agree that the historicals hold the edge. If you look at
what I wrote, you'll see that I particularly recommended
Szigeti/Harty, Kreisler/Blech, and Krebbers/Mengelberg. Not so far
from Samir. Now I happen to think that there are a few more recent
artists, including Szeryng, Ferras, Minchev--and, yes, Oistrakh--who
do similar justice to the work in their own ways. Which Oistrakh are
you talking about anyway, Samir? Not O/Konwitschny or O/Kondrashin, I
suspect.
I appreciated Samir's musicological diagnostic, which I think I was
able to follow. Lacking his expertise, I always go straight to the
treacherous ninths in the first movement to get a feel for a
performance. Are they played a tempo with drama and flair, and are
they more or less in tune? Kreisler (both recordings), Szigeti, and
of course Heifetz absolutely nail them, while some very famous
viiolinists fall short, imo, marring recordings that may have other
virtues (Morini and De Vito, for example). I literally wore out my
COLH LP of Kreisler/Barbirolli because I found his energy in the first
movement so enthralling. I still feel that way about it, even though
I have come to prefer Kreisler's earlier recording.
AC
tomdeacon
He married his cellist in the NACO, Amanda Forsythe, and has never been
happier in his life. Or so he says. Forgotten Eugenia and Tuesday
completely.
TD
SG
Alan Cooper wrote:
> On 14 Dec 2005 14:13:46 -0800, "SG" <SGG...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >I disagree with esteemed Alan Cooper about a zillion of satisfactory
> >stereo recordings existing. I haven't heard any, and I heard many. Of
> >course there are plethoras of recordings in which all the notes are
> >played at the correct pitch, but I for one am not happy with them. I
> >like this concerto very much and I heard a lot of recordings of it. Few
> >of them stand up close musical scrutiny.
>
> I agree, actually, and since this is probably my single favorite piece
> of music,
Fascinating.
> . . . I have devoted an inordinate amount of time and energy to
> collecting and listening to recordings of it. "Satisfactory" is not
> the same as "great," nor would *my* definition of "a satisfactory
> recording" be "a recording that makes Samir happy."
How dare you? ( :
> Be that as it
> may, I also agree that the historicals hold the edge. If you look at
> what I wrote, you'll see that I particularly recommended
> Szigeti/Harty, Kreisler/Blech, and Krebbers/Mengelberg. Not so far
> from Samir.
True.
> Now I happen to think that there are a few more recent
> artists, including Szeryng, Ferras, Minchev--and, yes, Oistrakh--who
> do similar justice to the work in their own ways. Which Oistrakh are
> you talking about anyway, Samir? Not O/Konwitschny or O/Kondrashin, I
> suspect.
I heard only two Oistrakhs, the Klemperer and the Konwitschny. I
actually believe it's hard to find any (unsubtle) fault with these
excellent performances from a truly major violinist. I just believe
there's more to the music than that, which I tried to suggest through a
couple of examples. Is the Kondrashin-conducted version much different
and how, if at all?
regards,
SG
Sacqueboutier
All of this only supports his story. He is quite consistent in his
facts. Why the doubt?
--
Best wishes,
Sacqueboutier
Sacqueboutier
That appears to be exactly what Tepper did in Minneapolis/St. Paul
(guessing about the location). If Zuk is
so approachable, why would you doubt that Tepper "approached" him about
the Nielsen?
I suppose you've never gone to the green room to meet an artist?
Sheesh, what a jerk.
--
Best wishes,
Sacqueboutier