Furtwangler 1951 Beethoven Ninth
Richard Loeb
Ninth with this interesting explanation
BEETHOVEN
Symphony No. 9
Elisabeth Schwarzkopf, Elisabeth Höngen, Hans Hopf, Otto Edelmann
Festspielorchester der Bayreuther Festspiele / Wilhelm Furtwängler
Live Recording 1951
In 1951 Wilhelm Furtwängler demonstrated his inspired approach to
Beethoven's Ninth Symphony twice, within a matter of only a few weeks: at
the Salzburg Festival (Orfeo C533001B) and to reopen the first post-war
Bayreuth Festival. For a long time, the latter legendary performance,
broadcast live was believed lost. It is now issued by Orfeo in a carefully
restored pressing. This was only the second time that Beethoven's Ninth
Symphony had been performed in the Bayreuth Festspielhaus, the first being
the foundation-stone-laying ceremony under Wagner's own direction in 1872,
so this 1951 performance was like a rebirth of the Festival myth.
A musical high point of post-war history.
So what have we been listening to all these years???? Richard
Ralph
> Orfeo is issuing the 1951 Bayreuth opening performance of the Beethoven
> Ninth with this interesting explanation
>
I have heard that the best Beethoven 9th by Furtwangler is the Lucerne
Festival recording from the 1950's. Is it in print?
Ralph
phlmae...@yahoo.com
I just checked and saw that Amazon has it on a single Music & Arts
disc. I'm not sure how that transfer is though. I know the Tahra
transfer is often mentioned as the best, but it's gone in and out of
print in various forms (one disc and as part of bigger sets) so many
times that I don't know what the situation with that is now.
But you'll get a lot of disagreement over what Furtwangler's best
Beethoven 9th on record is. I know I'm not alone in thinking it's the
3/42 Berlin Philharmonic performance, which is probably also available
on a single Music & Arts disc.
J.Martin
> snip
> I have heard that the best Beethoven 9th by Furtwangler is the Lucerne
> Festival recording from the 1950's. Is it in print?
>
> Ralph
It's been out on a couple different labels, but the best transfer is
generally deemed to be the one on the single-disc issue from Tahra, a
label with such poor distribution that it is always difficult to tell
what's in print. (Tahra also put it out as part of a four-CD set,
which some have deemed to be a slightly less desirable transfer.) But
copies of the Lucerne 9th show up on ebay pretty frequently, so don't
despair. It's around, and definitely worth seeking out.
J
Richard Loeb
<phlmae...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e23d046a-61ce-4e57...@t1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
Yes but my question is why Orfeo seems to write that this is the first issue
of that Bayreuth 1951 Ninth - a recording that has been issued about fifty
times - were the previous issues something else???? Richard
phlmae...@yahoo.com
> > Yes but my question is why Orfeo seems to write that this is the first issue
> of that Bayreuth 1951 Ninth - a recording that has been issued about fifty
> times - were the previous issues something else???? Richard
>
I don't know, but I wondered the same thing when I saw that
description last week on MDT's site.
SimonG
(Tahra also put it out as part of a four-CD set,
> which some have deemed to be a slightly less desirable transfer.)
I didn't know that, I have the less desirable transfer!
Simon
Todd Schurk
I believe that the Orfeo release is from tapes made by the Bavarian
Radio for broadcast. It is of course the same performance as the EMI/
Legge-though I think the EMI may have had some "patching" from a
rehearsal. I wonder if each entity (EMI & Bavarian Radio) each had
mikes set up...can anyone else shed some light? Todd S.
Lofty Becker
"Richard Loeb" <loe...@comcast.net> wrote:
The story I've heard is that the EMI issue is mostly from rehearsals,
and that may be so.
Incidentally, Wagner's performance of Beethoven's Ninth in Bayreuth
wasn't in the Festspielhaus, which hadn't yet been built. It was in the
Markgraf's Opera House, in downtown Bayreuth. So far as I know, the
first performance of the 9th in Bayreuth was that conducted by Richard
Strauss, in 1932 I think.
-Lofty
Todd Schurk
> In article <Keqdnf2i07Oq8gvanZ2dnUVZ_uevn...@comcast.com>,
There is an excellent 9th from the Festspielhaus,1963, conducted by
Karl Bohm on the "Memories" label.
Rich S.
<loe...@comcast.net> wrote:
>Orfeo is issuing the 1951 Bayreuth opening performance of the Beethoven
>Ninth with this interesting explanation
>
>[snip]
>So what have we been listening to all these years???? Richard
>
Coincidentally, I received the latest newsletter of the WF Society of
America today. Inside was a full page article and pictures of a CD
(sold by the Japanese WF Centre) that claims to be made from a tape of
the Bayreuth opening performance. To quote the article, by Dade
Theriot:
"The hack job that Mr. Legge did is an embarassment and an insult to
the Furtwangler legacy, and while it is in and of itself a memorable
version, it is nonetheless not what it has always claimed to be. Dress
rehearsals spliced together with chunks of the live performance is not
in any case the real thing."
He also notes that the applause at the end of the EMI release was
tacked on.
That's as much detail as the article gives about the particulars of
the differences, and it's not much.
On the surface at least it seems like the Orfeo release is the same
one.
Rich
Richard Loeb
"Rich S." <schiebel*nos...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:vvjdp3hp8gjg9u5km...@4ax.com...
You mean the same as the Japanese release??? Richa
Rich S.
Peter J
some English language articles, like the newsletter.
Yes, the Japanese Society issue seems to be from the same Bavarian
Radio source as the Orfeo, though I assume at this stage that the
mastering is different.
Peter
Rich S.
I guess I should clarify this by saying that the source appears to be
the same but the remastering may be different.
-Rich
Aaron Z Snyder
> "The hack job that Mr. Legge did is an embarassment and an insult to
> the Furtwangler legacy, and while it is in and of itself a memorable
> version, it is nonetheless not what it has always claimed to be. Dress
> rehearsals spliced together with chunks of the live performance is not
> in any case the real thing."
Reading this makes me wonder why Legge didn't have the horn burble in the
third movement edited out. Even in the bad old analog days that could have
been done. In other words, I can't help but wonder how much of the above
paragraph is actually true.
AZS
Curtis Croulet
So, is he saying that the famous horn bobble in the Adagio is probably the
*best* take?
--
Curtis Croulet
Temecula, California
33°27'59"N, 117°05'53"W
Aaron Z Snyder
news:e23d046a-61ce-4e57...@t1g2000pra.googlegroups.com:
> I just checked and saw that Amazon has it on a single Music & Arts
> disc. I'm not sure how that transfer is though. I know the Tahra
> transfer is often mentioned as the best....
Actually, the original release of this on M&A and the Tahra release are
essentially the same. Both have the same pseudo-stereo characteristics, and
both were released with Elisabeth Furtwängler's blessing. The M&A was
released before the Tahra, so Tahra's claims of being the first official
release are spurious.
M&A has just re-released the Lucerne LvB 9th, this time in real mono. Yes,
I was the restorer, and for that reason won't make any self-promoting
claims about the sound. I *do* hope you like it.
AZS
Rich S.
That's an excellent point. I remain skeptical until I hear the goods
or at least read a decent report by someone who has.
But there's an interesting issue here - if we're supposed to be
outraged because a recording that is patched up or drawn from more
than one performance is "not the real thing" then there's a whole lot
of recordings that need to be reissued.
Rich