Pristine release: Mid-50s Respighi by Doráti, Galliera
Andrew Rose
PASC194 - Respighi Orchestral Music
# RESPIGHI Feste romane (Roman Festivals)
# RESPIGHI Vetrate di chiesa (Church Windows)
Minneapolis Symphony Orchestra
conducted by Antal Dor�ti
20 November, 1954, Northrop Auditorium, Minneapolis
First issued as Mercury MG 50046
# RESPIGHI Fontane di Roma (Roman Fountains)
The Philharmonia Orchestra
conducted by Alceo Galliera
18-21 March, 1955, Kingsway Hall, London
First issued as UK Columbia 33 CX 1339
http://www.pristineclassical.com/LargeWorks/Orchestral/PASC194.php
Vetrate di chiesa
2. San Michele Arcangelo
(Ambient Stereo version)
Sample MP3: http://tinyurl.com/PASC194
--
Andrew Rose
Pristine Classical: "The destination for people interested in historic
recordings..." (Gramophone)
td
> XR remasters by Andrew Rose:
>
> PASC194 - Respighi Orchestral Music
>
> # RESPIGHI Feste romane (Roman Festivals)
> # RESPIGHI Vetrate di chiesa (Church Windows)
> Minneapolis Symphony Orchestra
> 20 November, 1954, Northrop Auditorium, Minneapolis
> First issued as Mercury MG 50046
>
> # RESPIGHI Fontane di Roma (Roman Fountains)
> The Philharmonia Orchestra
> conducted by Alceo Galliera
> 18-21 March, 1955, Kingsway Hall, London
> First issued as UK Columbia 33 CX 1339
>
> http://www.pristineclassical.com/LargeWorks/Orchestral/PASC194.php
>
> Vetrate di chiesa
> 2. San Michele Arcangelo
> (Ambient Stereo version)
Again we have transfers done "on the cheap".
The mastertapes for both these recordings sit in Hayes(Galliera) and
Hannover(Dorati).
Speaker's Corner manages to obtain such mastertapes for their LP
releases of Mercury and Decca materials. Testament does the same with
EMI's archive. No feeble excuse such as "the costs are too high" will
pass muster here.
WHY, I ask, do we need such amateur jobs done of these tapes. The
Dorati is a particular classic, one which I had encouraged WCF to
consider for reissue on CD. She disliked doing monaural reissues in
principle, so we never got that far. But the tapes are there to be
used.
Or ignored.
TD
Dontait...@aol.com
[snips]
> Guess old Schuchter's Hary Janos - c/w the delectable Dohnanyi:
> 'Ruralia Hungarica' (MFP 2042) will make a 14euro appearance.
> If so there's no need to do an 'ambient stereo' as the 'mono' isn't
> actually mono - I sent it back to EMI in '68 complaining the sound
> went from side to side - got Konwitchny's Wagner Overures / Czech PO -
> a Supraphon pressing in return....
It's in mono on MGM E 3019 (issued 1953), which is how I own it. I
haven't played it in some years and am currently unable to play LPs to
check, however. Total agreement about how good the performances are.
The Dohnanyi is especially good, and the Philharmonia sounds very
lush.
Schuechter's LP of Turina's Danzas Fantasticas and Tres Danzas
Espanolas by Granados (orch. Lamote de Grignon) is excellent, too.
Mine is MGM E 3018.
Don Tait
Dontait...@aol.com
> Hello Don.
> Yes - always loved that wonderful Ruralia Hungarica (the only other UK
> issue was a Turnabout - M.I.T...think c/w rEd poppy - some time since
> listenened to that.
> The original, in the UK, was issued 1955 as Parlophone PMC 1017 - but
> the MFP has some advantage in treble analysis compared to that
> Parlophone.
> Unfortunately 'Hary' is a trifle sedate - and the bass-drum is
> inaudible! (if you want to hear that stunningly reproduced then the
> VPO/Kempe (reissue - not the ASD) on World Record Club ST 763 is the
> LP to hear.
>
> Schuchter also acquired an 'odd' US coupling with his 'Colas Breugnon'
> on MGM E-3506 - ie: Harry Horlick's - Kabalevsky 'Comedians' (Paris
> CO).
> MFP also issued some St Louis/Golschmann's - the Carmen/Faust is
> rather/very good (MFP 2016) but my Tchaik: Francesca/Romeo is a bit
> less than, uh, 'pristine' !
Hi --
I don't seem to own MGM E3506 (Schuechter "Colas Breugnon"); I own
that on MGM E3112, where it's coupled with "Four Portraits from The
Gambler" by Prokofiev. Both Schuechter/Philharmonia.
Did MFP reissue the LPs Gaston Poulet made for Parlophone with the
LSO? MGM issued two:
E3073 -- Albeniz-Arbos, Turina, Granados, Falla
E3116 -- Ravel, Faure
I now find only the latter here, but I'm sure I have the Spanish one
somewhere. The performances are remarkable. Unusually slow, but
superbly done.
I never collected Golschmann's LPs except for the two Capitols of
French and American music and the single Vanguard of music by Barber.
Perhaps I should have explored those from St. Louis after all....
Thanks.
Don Tait
HaydnHouse.com
http://www.haydnhouse.com/HH4.htm to hear sample as transferred from heavy
Merc FR pressing by
Wilfrid Biscaye-Prickre
Pierre
See
td
Incidentally, Don, Universal is also in possession of all the MGM
classical tapes. They will sit unused forever until someone comes
along and licenses them, of course.
TD
Dontait...@aol.com
> Hello Don - yes - the Gaston Poulet 'Spanish' LP is in a pretty superb
> MFP transfer (MFP 2083 - previously PMC 1006).
> I'd like to do that one as the performances/playing are very
> enjoyable.
> The other (PMC 1016 - Ravel/Faure) wasn't reissued - & not got/never
> seen...however, I've another 'French' Parlophone that Andrew might not
> be able to acquire!
>
> It would be interesting to do some LSO transfers from that period -
> especially Robert Irving's 'Le Cid'/'Patineurs' (have an original LXT/
> ACL)...which is vivacious..
>
> The MGM number I quoted was for their 'Limited Edition- Request
> Series' (plain sleeved) - presumably 1960's. The Parlophone (don't
> have) is as your original MGM.
Hi --
Your message sent me to look at my shelves -- which I should have
done in the first place -- and lo and behold! there is MFP 2083, the
Spanish music program conducted by Poulet. The one you cited. I *knew*
I had it somewhere. Many thanks.
Yes, LSO transfers from that period would be welcome. I don't think
I own Irving's record of "Le Cid" and "Les Patineurs," but I love the
London LP of Irving doing the Gluck and Gretry suites in modern
orchestral dress.
MGM's "Limited Edition -- Request Series"! I remember them well and
bought a lot of them. They were sold in Chicago for bargain prices at
the local outlet of Discount Records. Yes, from about 1961 on. That
series was a product of The Record Hunter, a major store in New York
City. (If not, it was another prominent store.) MGM had stopped its
entire classical record line by then. The reissues featured a huge
number of MGM records. Among them were then-contemporary American
works, many early MGMs derived from the Parlophone recordings we've
been talking about, and such things as all of Grieg's Lyric Pieces on
about five LPs, played by Menahem Pressler. I didn't know that E3506,
containing the music conducted by Harry Horlick, was a limited edition
in that series. Thanks. I do now remember seeing the record.
Those pressings were below-par, and the packaging, in (as you wrote)
anonymous thin white cardboard jackets with cut-out center-holes and
no inner sleeve protection, was below-par too. But for $1.98, they
were neat. I've replaced as many as possible with original 1950s MGMs,
though.
Don Tait
Dontait...@aol.com
[snip]
> Incidentally, Don, Universal is also in possession of all the MGM
> classical tapes. They will sit unused forever until someone comes
> along and licenses them, of course.
>
> TD
Thanks, Tom, I didn't know that. And you're correct, of course.
There are many marvellous musical things among the MGM tapes,
including numerous works by American composers that might have had few
subsequent recordings. Harris, Harold Shapero, and others (Vincent
Persichetti's "The Hollow Men" became a favorite of mine from an MGM
LP). And of course Alan Hovhaness...so many MGM LPs of his music. One
wonders what of it has been recorded subsequently, such as "The
Flowering Peach."
Don Tait
Dontait...@aol.com
> Ok, Don..
> So - when are you gonna get your LP-playing system fixed?
> Surely there are 'local' folks �(& also contactable by various web-
> groups..) - if not an engineer �-who'd oblige ??
> Can't be a 'major' problem, surely - and you could maybe part with
> some LP's if 'recompense' was required - & which you wouldn't likely
> miss!
I'll get it fixed eventually. My McIntosh preamp died. Yes, I have
marvellous people here (my old friends at Audio Consultants in
Evanston). They'll get it fixed, as always. There are only so many
unexpected breakdowns and major expenses that I can cope with at a
time, however. It's been a VERY expensive year from my savings.
Thanks for the thought, but I think they'll only take money, not LPs
(I'm sure I know how you meant it). And although I have about 4,000
duplicate LPs here I'd love to sell, if only for a pittance, no one
seems to care or want them.
> I'd wondered who 'owned' those particular �Parlophones - some got re-
> issued by EMI in the '60's �but not thereafter AFAICR
> Presumably quite a few of the Philharmonia/LSO/etc, have George Martin
> as the producer?
>
> Yes, the Irving 'New SO' is fine (though some of the music is a bit
> 'uninspired') �& have on a slightly later (splendid) transfer of
> LXT5063 - there's also an ACL reissue (we're giving AR 'hints', I
> suspect!). �Better than Leppard's/ECO 'similar' efforts from a decade
> later in any event..
Irving "New SO"! Yes, that's the orchestra on the London LP of
Gretry and Gluck. Thanks for the correction.
Don T.
td
> On Oct 16, 3:30 pm, tinear <tin...@ymail.com> wrote:
>
> > Ok, Don..
> > So - when are you gonna get your LP-playing system fixed?
> > Surely there are 'local' folks (& also contactable by various web-
> > groups..) - if not an engineer -who'd oblige ??
> > Can't be a 'major' problem, surely - and you could maybe part with
> > some LP's if 'recompense' was required - & which you wouldn't likely
> > miss!
>
> I'll get it fixed eventually. My McIntosh preamp died. Yes, I have
> marvellous people here (my old friends at Audio Consultants in
> Evanston). They'll get it fixed, as always.
And if they can't, try Audio Classics in Binghampton, New York, just
down the road from McIntosh. They do outstanding work and are in
possession of an enormous stock of McIntosh parts.
TD
Dontait...@aol.com
Many thanks for your helpful thoughts.
Don T.
number_six
> I never collected Golschmann's LPs except for the two Capitols of
> French and American music and the single Vanguard of music by Barber.
> Perhaps I should have explored those from St. Louis after all....
>
Those two Capitol LPs were posted here last year and I really enjoyed
them.
Golschmann really kicked up his heels with Milhaud's 'La Boeuf',
especially.
Bill Anderson
=
> Those two Capitol LPs were posted here last year and I really enjoyed
> them.
>
> Golschmann really kicked up his heels with Milhaud's 'La Boeuf',
> especially.
And they are still available for those interested -
Contemporary American Music:
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?tigo4imin0y
Modern French Music:
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?sdwet2j0hjt
- Bill
Steve de Mena
> On Oct 16, 11:53 am, Andrew Rose <and...@pristineaudio.com> wrote:
>> XR remasters by Andrew Rose:
>>
>> PASC194 - Respighi Orchestral Music
>>
>> # RESPIGHI Feste romane (Roman Festivals)
>> # RESPIGHI Vetrate di chiesa (Church Windows)
>> Minneapolis Symphony Orchestra
>> 20 November, 1954, Northrop Auditorium, Minneapolis
>> First issued as Mercury MG 50046
>>
>> # RESPIGHI Fontane di Roma (Roman Fountains)
>> The Philharmonia Orchestra
>> conducted by Alceo Galliera
>> 18-21 March, 1955, Kingsway Hall, London
>> First issued as UK Columbia 33 CX 1339
>>
>> http://www.pristineclassical.com/LargeWorks/Orchestral/PASC194.php
>>
>> Vetrate di chiesa
>> 2. San Michele Arcangelo
>> (Ambient Stereo version)
>
> Again we have transfers done "on the cheap".
>
> The mastertapes for both these recordings sit in Hayes(Galliera) and
> Hannover(Dorati).
>
> Speaker's Corner manages to obtain such mastertapes for their LP
> releases of Mercury and Decca materials. Testament does the same with
> EMI's archive. No feeble excuse such as "the costs are too high" will
> pass muster here.
> TD
>
I asked the same question a couple of weeks ago regarding a Pristine
release of English music with Sir Adrian Boult, sourced from a 1950s
Decca LP. I was told Decca wasn't even contacted to see what the
licensing cost would be and then pretty much shouted down by everyone
as some sort of idiot. I felt �14 was high for a CD sourced from an LP.
Steve
td
> td wrote:
> > On Oct 16, 11:53 am, Andrew Rose <and...@pristineaudio.com> wrote:
> >> XR remasters by Andrew Rose:
>
> >> PASC194 - Respighi Orchestral Music
>
> >> # RESPIGHI Feste romane (Roman Festivals)
> >> # RESPIGHI Vetrate di chiesa (Church Windows)
> >> Minneapolis Symphony Orchestra
> >> 20 November, 1954, Northrop Auditorium, Minneapolis
> >> First issued as Mercury MG 50046
>
> >> # RESPIGHI Fontane di Roma (Roman Fountains)
> >> The Philharmonia Orchestra
> >> conducted by Alceo Galliera
> >> 18-21 March, 1955, Kingsway Hall, London
> >> First issued as UK Columbia 33 CX 1339
>
> >>http://www.pristineclassical.com/LargeWorks/Orchestral/PASC194.php
>
> >> Vetrate di chiesa
> >> 2. San Michele Arcangelo
> >> (Ambient Stereo version)
>
> > Again we have transfers done "on the cheap".
>
> > The mastertapes for both these recordings sit in Hayes(Galliera) and
> > Hannover(Dorati).
>
> > Speaker's Corner manages to obtain such mastertapes for their LP
> > releases of Mercury and Decca materials. Testament does the same with
> > EMI's archive. No feeble excuse such as "the costs are too high" will
> > pass muster here.
> > TD
>
> I asked the same question a couple of weeks ago regarding a Pristine
> release of English music with Sir Adrian Boult, sourced from a 1950s
> Decca LP. I was told Decca wasn't even contacted to see what the
> licensing cost would be and then pretty much shouted down by everyone
> as some sort of idiot. I felt £14 was high for a CD sourced from an LP.
It is.
And it is 100% profit.
No wonder Mr. Rose refuses to search out the mastertape and do it
right. You can buy the LP yourself for a buck or two from your local
Goodwill store and listen to the same recording, minus all the sonic
trickery, of course.
TD
Andrew Rose
> td wrote:
>> On Oct 16, 11:53 am, Andrew Rose <and...@pristineaudio.com> wrote:
>>> XR remasters by Andrew Rose:
>>>
>>> PASC194 - Respighi Orchestral Music
>>>
>>> # RESPIGHI Feste romane (Roman Festivals)
>>> # RESPIGHI Vetrate di chiesa (Church Windows)
>>> Minneapolis Symphony Orchestra
>>> 20 November, 1954, Northrop Auditorium, Minneapolis
>>> First issued as Mercury MG 50046
>>>
>>> # RESPIGHI Fontane di Roma (Roman Fountains)
>>> The Philharmonia Orchestra
>>> conducted by Alceo Galliera
>>> 18-21 March, 1955, Kingsway Hall, London
>>> First issued as UK Columbia 33 CX 1339
>>>
>>> http://www.pristineclassical.com/LargeWorks/Orchestral/PASC194.php
>>>
>>> Vetrate di chiesa
>>> 2. San Michele Arcangelo
>>> (Ambient Stereo version)
>>
>> Again we have transfers done "on the cheap".
>>
>> The mastertapes for both these recordings sit in Hayes(Galliera) and
>> Hannover(Dorati).
>>
>> Speaker's Corner manages to obtain such mastertapes for their LP
>> releases of Mercury and Decca materials. Testament does the same with
>> EMI's archive. No feeble excuse such as "the costs are too high" will
>> pass muster here.
>
>> TD
>>
>
> I asked the same question a couple of weeks ago regarding a Pristine
> release of English music with Sir Adrian Boult, sourced from a 1950s
> Decca LP. I was told Decca wasn't even contacted to see what the
> licensing cost would be and then pretty much shouted down by everyone as
>
> Steve
If either of you think that this release will ever return anything like
the �2000 advance fee required to license two sets of master tapes (and
even then, for just 5 years) then you're living on a different economic
planet to me. I might just as well sit here burning �500 notes.
Regardless, it's laughable that you're both so blindly prejudiced as to
condemn recordings without ever bothering to listen to any of them.
Gerard
>
> If either of you think that this release will ever return anything
> tapes (and even then, for just 5 years) then you're living on a
> different economic planet to me. I might just as well sit here
>
I don't know about your remasterings, but those notes will be completely
useless.
td
> Steve de Mena wrote:
> > td wrote:
> >> On Oct 16, 11:53 am, Andrew Rose <and...@pristineaudio.com> wrote:
> >>> XR remasters by Andrew Rose:
>
> >>> PASC194 - Respighi Orchestral Music
>
> >>> # RESPIGHI Feste romane (Roman Festivals)
> >>> # RESPIGHI Vetrate di chiesa (Church Windows)
> >>> Minneapolis Symphony Orchestra
> >>> 20 November, 1954, Northrop Auditorium, Minneapolis
> >>> First issued as Mercury MG 50046
>
> >>> # RESPIGHI Fontane di Roma (Roman Fountains)
> >>> The Philharmonia Orchestra
> >>> conducted by Alceo Galliera
> >>> 18-21 March, 1955, Kingsway Hall, London
> >>> First issued as UK Columbia 33 CX 1339
>
> >>>http://www.pristineclassical.com/LargeWorks/Orchestral/PASC194.php
>
> >>> Vetrate di chiesa
> >>> 2. San Michele Arcangelo
> >>> (Ambient Stereo version)
>
> >> Again we have transfers done "on the cheap".
>
> >> The mastertapes for both these recordings sit in Hayes(Galliera) and
> >> Hannover(Dorati).
>
> >> Speaker's Corner manages to obtain such mastertapes for their LP
> >> releases of Mercury and Decca materials. Testament does the same with
> >> EMI's archive. No feeble excuse such as "the costs are too high" will
> >> pass muster here.
>
> >> TD
>
> > I asked the same question a couple of weeks ago regarding a Pristine
> > release of English music with Sir Adrian Boult, sourced from a 1950s
> > Decca LP. I was told Decca wasn't even contacted to see what the
> > licensing cost would be and then pretty much shouted down by everyone as
>
> > Steve
>
> If either of you think that this release will ever return anything like
> even then, for just 5 years) then you're living on a different economic
If you think it will cost such money - it won't - then you're living
on another planet.
This is sheer laziness and utter greed.
TD
wagnerfan
news:4ad9e32b$0$890$ba4a...@news.orange.fr...
licensing issues but de Mena has a bug up his ass about it and just won't
listen. As for Deacon, he can't even tell two different performances apart
let alone two different masterings of the same performance. I have made life
easy for myself and blocked them both.
Andrew - keep up the great work - the wonderful reviews and feedback you
have received for a long time are well deserved and put these "objections"
in proper perspective. Wagner fan
John
>......... but de Mena has a bug up his ass.....
FBI surveillance?
td
> "Andrew Rose" <and...@pristineaudio.com> wrote in message
>
> news:4ad9e32b$0$890$ba4a...@news.orange.fr...
>
> > Steve de Mena wrote:
> >> td wrote:
> >>> On Oct 16, 11:53 am, Andrew Rose <and...@pristineaudio.com> wrote:
> >>>> XR remasters by Andrew Rose:
>
> >>>> PASC194 - Respighi Orchestral Music
>
> >>>> # RESPIGHI Feste romane (Roman Festivals)
> >>>> # RESPIGHI Vetrate di chiesa (Church Windows)
> >>>> Minneapolis Symphony Orchestra
> >>>> 20 November, 1954, Northrop Auditorium, Minneapolis
> >>>> First issued as Mercury MG 50046
>
> >>>> # RESPIGHI Fontane di Roma (Roman Fountains)
> >>>> The Philharmonia Orchestra
> >>>> conducted by Alceo Galliera
> >>>> 18-21 March, 1955, Kingsway Hall, London
> >>>> First issued as UK Columbia 33 CX 1339
>
> >>>>http://www.pristineclassical.com/LargeWorks/Orchestral/PASC194.php
>
> >>>> Vetrate di chiesa
> >>>> 2. San Michele Arcangelo
> >>>> (Ambient Stereo version)
>
> >>> Again we have transfers done "on the cheap".
>
> >>> The mastertapes for both these recordings sit in Hayes(Galliera) and
> >>> Hannover(Dorati).
>
> >>> Speaker's Corner manages to obtain such mastertapes for their LP
> >>> releases of Mercury and Decca materials. Testament does the same with
> >>> EMI's archive. No feeble excuse such as "the costs are too high" will
> >>> pass muster here.
>
> >>> TD
>
> >> I asked the same question a couple of weeks ago regarding a Pristine
> >> release of English music with Sir Adrian Boult, sourced from a 1950s
> >> Decca LP. I was told Decca wasn't even contacted to see what the
> >> licensing cost would be and then pretty much shouted down by everyone as
>
> >> Steve
>
> > If either of you think that this release will ever return anything like
> > even then, for just 5 years) then you're living on a different economic
>
> > Regardless, it's laughable that you're both so blindly prejudiced as to
> > condemn recordings without ever bothering to listen to any of them.
>
> > --
> > Andrew Rose
>
> > Pristine Classical: "The destination for people interested in historic
> > recordings..." (Gramophone)
>
> >www.pristineclassical.com
>
> Andrew - I thought you explained pretty clearly last time this came up about
> licensing issues but de Mena has a bug up his ass about it and just won't
> listen. As for Deacon, he can't even tell two different performances apart
> let alone two different masterings of the same performance. I have made life
> easy for myself and blocked them both.
> Andrew - keep up the great work - the wonderful reviews and feedback you
> have received for a long time are well deserved and put these "objections"
> in proper perspective.
More garbage from our lover of the fascist anti-semite.
I guess you haven't "blocked" us successfully, as you seem to be
commenting on our posts.
HA HA HA HA HA HA
What a turd!
TD
Steve de Mena
I never said your remasterings do not sound good. But they have the
potential to sound even better if sourced from the master tape.
You might also consider why people like myself haven't bought your
releases and how many more you might sell if they were advertised as
sourced from the master tapes.
Steve
Steve de Mena
No he didn't. He specifically said he had NOT contacted Decca about
licensing their releases. Do you consider that a "clear explanation"?
> but de Mena has a bug up his ass about it and
> just won't listen. As for Deacon, he can't even tell two different
> performances apart let alone two different masterings of the same
> performance. I have made life easy for myself and blocked them both.
> Andrew - keep up the great work - the wonderful reviews and feedback you
> have received for a long time are well deserved and put these
> "objections" in proper perspective. Wagner fan
Steve
Steve de Mena
"... the Dor�ti does appear to suffer a slight top end roll-off
towards the end of each side this happens slowly enough and is mild
enough that one is rarely aware of it when listening through."
Would the master tape have had this "top end roll-off".
http://www.pristineclassical.com/LargeWorks/Orchestral/PASC194.php
I'm listening to the sample now of Church Windows and I detect what I
consider to be traces of LP playback distortion. I'd live to hear
that tam-tam/gong at the end from the master tape as a comparison.
Steve
Bob Harper
> On Oct 17, 11:30 am, Andrew Rose <and...@pristineaudio.com> wrote:
>> Steve de Mena wrote:
>>> td wrote:
>>>> On Oct 16, 11:53 am, Andrew Rose <and...@pristineaudio.com> wrote:
>>>>> XR remasters by Andrew Rose:
>>>>> PASC194 - Respighi Orchestral Music
>>>>> # RESPIGHI Feste romane (Roman Festivals)
>>>>> # RESPIGHI Vetrate di chiesa (Church Windows)
>>>>> Minneapolis Symphony Orchestra
>>>>> 20 November, 1954, Northrop Auditorium, Minneapolis
>>>>> First issued as Mercury MG 50046
>>>>> # RESPIGHI Fontane di Roma (Roman Fountains)
>>>>> The Philharmonia Orchestra
>>>>> conducted by Alceo Galliera
>>>>> 18-21 March, 1955, Kingsway Hall, London
>>>>> First issued as UK Columbia 33 CX 1339
>>>>> http://www.pristineclassical.com/LargeWorks/Orchestral/PASC194.php
>>>>> Vetrate di chiesa
>>>>> 2. San Michele Arcangelo
>>>>> (Ambient Stereo version)
>>>> Again we have transfers done "on the cheap".
>>>> The mastertapes for both these recordings sit in Hayes(Galliera) and
>>>> Hannover(Dorati).
>>>> Speaker's Corner manages to obtain such mastertapes for their LP
>>>> releases of Mercury and Decca materials. Testament does the same with
>>>> EMI's archive. No feeble excuse such as "the costs are too high" will
>>>> pass muster here.
>>>> TD
>>> I asked the same question a couple of weeks ago regarding a Pristine
>>> release of English music with Sir Adrian Boult, sourced from a 1950s
>>> Decca LP. I was told Decca wasn't even contacted to see what the
>>> licensing cost would be and then pretty much shouted down by everyone as
>>> Steve
>> If either of you think that this release will ever return anything like
>> even then, for just 5 years) then you're living on a different economic
>
> If you think it will cost such money - it won't - then you're living
> on another planet.
>
> This is sheer laziness and utter greed.
>
> TD
>
would; Tom says it wouldn't. Who's right? Who has asked? What would the
economics be? If Andrew''s estimate of sales is right, it would be
difficult to pay much for the use of the masters without turning it into
a losing proposition. How do Testament or Speaker's Corner issues of
material as, ah, 'specialized' as Andrew's sell? Or do they even deal
with such material?
All these questions should have answers. May we have some, rather than
accusations of greed and laziness?
Bob Harper
AN
> td wrote:
> > On Oct 17, 11:30 am, Andrew Rose <and...@pristineaudio.com> wrote:
> >> Steve de Mena wrote:
> >>> td wrote:
> >>>> On Oct 16, 11:53 am, Andrew Rose <and...@pristineaudio.com> wrote:
> >>>>> XR remasters by Andrew Rose:
> >>>>> PASC194 - Respighi Orchestral Music
> >>>>> # RESPIGHI Feste romane (Roman Festivals)
> >>>>> # RESPIGHI Vetrate di chiesa (Church Windows)
> >>>>> Minneapolis Symphony Orchestra
> >>>>> 20 November, 1954, Northrop Auditorium, Minneapolis
> >>>>> First issued as Mercury MG 50046
> >>>>> # RESPIGHI Fontane di Roma (Roman Fountains)
> >>>>> The Philharmonia Orchestra
> >>>>> conducted by Alceo Galliera
> >>>>> 18-21 March, 1955, Kingsway Hall, London
> >>>>> First issued as UK Columbia 33 CX 1339
> >>>>>http://www.pristineclassical.com/LargeWorks/Orchestral/PASC194.php
> >>>>> Vetrate di chiesa
> >>>>> 2. San Michele Arcangelo
> >>>>> (Ambient Stereo version)
> >>>> Again we have transfers done "on the cheap".
> >>>> The mastertapes for both these recordings sit in Hayes(Galliera) and
> >>>> Hannover(Dorati).
> >>>> Speaker's Corner manages to obtain such mastertapes for their LP
> >>>> releases of Mercury and Decca materials. Testament does the same with
> >>>> EMI's archive. No feeble excuse such as "the costs are too high" will
> >>>> pass muster here.
> >>>> TD
> >>> I asked the same question a couple of weeks ago regarding a Pristine
> >>> release of English music with Sir Adrian Boult, sourced from a 1950s
> >>> Decca LP. I was told Decca wasn't even contacted to see what the
> >>> licensing cost would be and then pretty much shouted down by everyone as
> >>> Steve
> >> If either of you think that this release will ever return anything like
> >> even then, for just 5 years) then you're living on a different economic
>
> > If you think it will cost such money - it won't - then you're living
> > on another planet.
>
> > This is sheer laziness and utter greed.
>
> > TD
>
> Well, either it costs 2000 Euros or it doesn't. Andrew seems to think it
> would; Tom says it wouldn't. Who's right? Who has asked? What would the
> economics be? If Andrew''s estimate of sales is right, it would be
> difficult to pay much for the use of the masters without turning it into
> a losing proposition. How do Testament or Speaker's Corner issues of
> material as, ah, 'specialized' as Andrew's sell? Or do they even deal
> with such material?
>
> All these questions should have answers. May we have some, rather than
> accusations of greed and laziness?
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
I enquired some years ago about licencing a Decca recording which had
two years to go before its copyright ran out. The costs were
prohibitive - whether they would be more reasonable now I do not know.
IIRC it was £3500 for five years.
You would also need to enquire whether Testament has a cosy deal with
EMI and other labels (and Dutton), and whether charges for LP re-
release are the same as for CD.
Andrew Rose
This is from EMI:
Andrew Rose
This is part of an e-mail I received earlier this year from an EMI
Classics VP:
"For PD recordings we ask for a �1,000 advance, plus an on-going royalty
of between 12-20% of the PPD, depending on the recording. Our usual
licence period is for 5 years, for the world.
For in-copyright recordings, we ask for a �1,000 advance, plus an
on-going royalty of between 15-25% of the PPD, depending on the
recording. Again, the licence period can be up to 5 years, for the world."
This would, I'm assuming, cover the use of the Galliera in this case.
The Dor�ti would have to be separately negotiated with the rights holder
of the Mercury recordings - hence my suggestion of a total of �2000.
Andrew Rose
> How do Testament or Speaker's Corner issues of
> material as, ah, 'specialized' as Andrew's sell?
It has been suggested to me that Testament is run as something of a rich
man's hobby. I have no evidence to back this up, but the implication was
that sales only partly covered the costs and the rest came from the
wealthy individual concerned.
Pristine Classical has always been self-funding and has to support
myself and my family as well - it's our sole income and there's no rich
uncle to bail us out or pay the bills if it fails.
As such we can only operate within our means.
wagnerfan
Pretty clear to me that greed motivates your operation (!).
Maybe this will get that stupid bitch Deacon to shut his jealous trap.
Wagner Fan
Andrew Rose
> Maybe this will get that stupid bitch Deacon to shut his jealous trap.
> Wagner Fan
Plus sheer laziness, of course!
On this subject, this is part of an e-mail just received with regard to
the funding of some Cala Stokowski releases:
"...I attach the Estimate provided in 2002 by Sony for our Cala Vols 1
and 2 of Stokowski's 1947-49 NYPO recordings which, as you'll see, came
to either $10,000 or $13,000, depending on their sources.
As it happens we were able to negotiate the price down to just under
$10,000, so that was $5000 each CD. But that was only for Sony to supply
copies of the source material on two CD-Rs. Even then the sources were a
mixture, since we were told that a lot of the tapes were unusable, what
with splices falling apart, tapes stretching, the coating coming
away, and so on. They went back to the 33.1/3rd rpm lacquers in some
cases, made use of some of the tapes that hadn't been badly damaged and,
in one case, used a commercially issued Columbia 78 as that was all they
could find in the vaults.
But their charge was only for copying the stuff. We still had to get our
usual Cala engineers to de-click, de-hiss, de-crackle and de-noise what
we were sent, as well as finalise a factory master. So their fees had to
go on top, along with all the other production costs, so the overall
cost was much higher (by about �2000) than Sony's basic licensing fee.
I think in the end we sold about 1500 copies of each CD, so it doesn't
need much calculating to realise that this was totally a
non-profit-making excercise. We were only able to finance it because the
Society had received a big bequest from Jack Baumgarten of $40,000 which
we have also used on all sorts of Stokowski projects.
The same licensing costs from Decca applied to our Phase-4 releases on
Cala .. I think it was �3000 for the Scheherazade, which hit 2000 sales,
and if memory serves it was �5000 for the Handel Messiah / Vivaldi Four
Seasons recordings which we issued as a 2-CD set but which did not reach
2000 sales..."
All of which makes the EMI price seem not at all unrealistic. Note in
particular the comments with regard to unusable tapes from the period -
exactly the kind of thing one might expect to find, thus ending up
coming full circle and using disc copies as masters.
td
> wagnerfan wrote:
> "... the Doráti does appear to suffer a slight top end roll-off
> towards the end of each side this happens slowly enough and is mild
> enough that one is rarely aware of it when listening through."
>
> Would the master tape have had this "top end roll-off".
>
> http://www.pristineclassical.com/LargeWorks/Orchestral/PASC194.php
>
> I'm listening to the sample now of Church Windows and I detect what I
> consider to be traces of LP playback distortion. I'd live to hear
> that tam-tam/gong at the end from the master tape as a comparison.
Exactly.
The mastertape would not only have had no "roll-off", the highs would
have been much more faithfully reproduced than they ever were on those
early 1950s LPs.
Why we have to argue this point about the use of mastertapes being far
better as a source is beyond me, Steve.
I guess these guys have found religion and they simply "believe" what
they believe.
TD
td
Times have changed, and considerably. Most companies don't even known
they own all this stuff.
> You would also need to enquire whether Testament has a cosy deal with
> EMI and other labels (and Dutton), and whether charges for LP re-
> release are the same as for CD.
EMI has a long-term interest in Testament's survival, as they are
recycling old and largely forgotten material.
The LP or CD release should make no difference to the owner of the
material.
TD
td
> Bob Harper wrote:
> > td wrote:
> >> On Oct 17, 11:30 am, Andrew Rose <and...@pristineaudio.com> wrote:
>
> >> If you think it will cost such money - it won't - then you're living
> >> on another planet.
>
> >> This is sheer laziness and utter greed.
>
> >> TD
>
> > Well, either it costs 2000 Euros or it doesn't. Andrew seems to think it
> > would; Tom says it wouldn't. Who's right? Who has asked? What would the
> > economics be? If Andrew''s estimate of sales is right, it would be
> > difficult to pay much for the use of the masters without turning it into
> > a losing proposition. How do Testament or Speaker's Corner issues of
> > material as, ah, 'specialized' as Andrew's sell? Or do they even deal
> > with such material?
>
> > All these questions should have answers. May we have some, rather than
> > accusations of greed and laziness?
>
> This is part of an e-mail I received earlier this year from an EMI
> Classics VP:
>
> of between 12-20% of the PPD, depending on the recording. Our usual
> licence period is for 5 years, for the world.
>
> on-going royalty of between 15-25% of the PPD, depending on the
> recording. Again, the licence period can be up to 5 years, for the world."
>
> This would, I'm assuming, cover the use of the Galliera in this case.
> of the Mercury recordings - hence my suggestion of a total of £2000.
Seems that you have to get beyond the level of VP in your discussions.
They can never strike a "deal".
Talk to Steward Brown. He might give you some hints.
TD
td
> wagnerfan wrote:
>
> > "Andrew Rose" <and...@pristineaudio.com> wrote in message
> >news:4adad059$0$936$ba4a...@news.orange.fr...
> >> Bob Harper wrote:
> >>> td wrote:
> >>>> On Oct 17, 11:30 am, Andrew Rose <and...@pristineaudio.com> wrote:
>
> >>>> If you think it will cost such money - it won't - then you're living
> >>>> on another planet.
>
> >>>> This is sheer laziness and utter greed.
>
> >>>> TD
>
> >>> Well, either it costs 2000 Euros or it doesn't. Andrew seems to think
> >>> it would; Tom says it wouldn't. Who's right? Who has asked? What
> >>> would the economics be? If Andrew''s estimate of sales is right, it
> >>> would be difficult to pay much for the use of the masters without
> >>> turning it into a losing proposition. How do Testament or Speaker's
> >>> Corner issues of material as, ah, 'specialized' as Andrew's sell? Or
> >>> do they even deal with such material?
>
> >>> All these questions should have answers. May we have some, rather
> >>> than accusations of greed and laziness?
>
> >> This is part of an e-mail I received earlier this year from an EMI
> >> Classics VP:
>
> >> royalty of between 12-20% of the PPD, depending on the recording. Our
> >> usual licence period is for 5 years, for the world.
>
> >> on-going royalty of between 15-25% of the PPD, depending on the
> >> recording. Again, the licence period can be up to 5 years, for the
> >> world."
>
> >> This would, I'm assuming, cover the use of the Galliera in this case.
> >> holder of the Mercury recordings - hence my suggestion of a total of
>
> > Pretty clear to me that greed motivates your operation (!).
> > Maybe this will get that stupid bitch Deacon to shut his jealous trap.
> > Wagner Fan
>
> Plus sheer laziness, of course!
>
> On this subject, this is part of an e-mail just received with regard to
> the funding of some Cala Stokowski releases:
>
> "...I attach the Estimate provided in 2002 by Sony for our Cala Vols 1
> and 2 of Stokowski's 1947-49 NYPO recordings which, as you'll see, came
> to either $10,000 or $13,000, depending on their sources.
>
> As it happens we were able to negotiate the price down to just under
> $10,000, so that was $5000 each CD. But that was only for Sony to supply
> copies of the source material on two CD-Rs. Even then the sources were a
> mixture, since we were told that a lot of the tapes were unusable, what
> with splices falling apart, tapes stretching, the coating coming
> away, and so on. They went back to the 33.1/3rd rpm lacquers in some
> cases, made use of some of the tapes that hadn't been badly damaged and,
> in one case, used a commercially issued Columbia 78 as that was all they
> could find in the vaults.
>
> But their charge was only for copying the stuff. We still had to get our
> usual Cala engineers to de-click, de-hiss, de-crackle and de-noise what
> we were sent, as well as finalise a factory master. So their fees had to
> go on top, along with all the other production costs, so the overall
>
> I think in the end we sold about 1500 copies of each CD, so it doesn't
> need much calculating to realise that this was totally a
> non-profit-making excercise. We were only able to finance it because the
> Society had received a big bequest from Jack Baumgarten of $40,000 which
> we have also used on all sorts of Stokowski projects.
>
> The same licensing costs from Decca applied to our Phase-4 releases on
> and if memory serves it was £5000 for the Handel Messiah / Vivaldi Four
> Seasons recordings which we issued as a 2-CD set but which did not reach
> 2000 sales..."
>
> All of which makes the EMI price seem not at all unrealistic. Note in
> particular the comments with regard to unusable tapes from the period -
> exactly the kind of thing one might expect to find, thus ending up
> coming full circle and using disc copies as masters.
Seems odd that you need to quote someone else's experiences in
licensing materials rather than your own.
Stokowski's Scheherazade is a very long way from Sir Adrian Boult
conducting English music or Antal Dorati performing some obscure
pieces by Respighi.
If you are serious about your enterprise - I have my doubts about
this, frankly - you should make it your goal to secure those
mastertapes one way or another. What you are doing so far is simply
amateurish in the extreme. Hit and miss. No grand design discernible.
My suggestion is that you avoid "cherry-picking" releases. This is
ALWAYS more expensive than striking a 100 tape deal. So, do your
research, line up the 100 mastertapes you want to license over time,
and then approach EMI or Universal with your plans and start talking
price. AND, most importantly, talk to the person who can say "yes",
not the little people who can only say "no", as they are saving their
own jobs by so doing.
TD
Bob Harper
(snip)
>
> Stokowski's Scheherazade is a very long way from Sir Adrian Boult
> conducting English music or Antal Dorati performing some obscure
> pieces by Respighi.
>
> If you are serious about your enterprise - I have my doubts about
> this, frankly - you should make it your goal to secure those
> mastertapes one way or another. What you are doing so far is simply
> amateurish in the extreme. Hit and miss. No grand design discernible.
>
> My suggestion is that you avoid "cherry-picking" releases. This is
> ALWAYS more expensive than striking a 100 tape deal. So, do your
> research, line up the 100 mastertapes you want to license over time,
> and then approach EMI or Universal with your plans and start talking
> price. AND, most importantly, talk to the person who can say "yes",
> not the little people who can only say "no", as they are saving their
> own jobs by so doing.
>
> TD
So, Tom, are you offering to assist Andrew in licensing the tapes for
a price at which, with his average item sales, he can make a
reasonable profit (assuming his marketing and sales are up to snuff)?
Otherwise, you're just engaging in your usual bully-boy stuff. And I
notice you've said nothing about the report from Cala that much of the
source material was arguably no better than what Andrew has used.
Bob Harper
Bob Harper
> recycling old and largely forgotten material.
Now that's an interesting way to put it. Just how much and what kind
of a 'long-term interest' does EMI have in Testament's survival, and
how might it be expressed?
Just curious.
Bob Harper
Bob Lombard
This - and the immediately previous post by you - may have
other-than-immediate significance. Testament CDs are not cheap. They
tend to be premium, in fact. How much of this expense is tied to
Testament's cost in licensing from EMI? You may safely assume that this
question is tinged by my impression that the decision making echelon at
EMI eats walleyed woodpecker eggs.
bl
Andrew Rose
Assuming the quite rapid shift from CD sales to downloads continues -
and that a market for historic recordings isn't stifled by heavy-handed
legislation and/or a general loss of interest, internet piracy or
whatever, the day may indeed come - and perhaps sooner than might
currently seem the case - where I can indeed consider approaching the
likes of EMI and others to negotiate this kind of thing.
In the meantime, however, I suspect I know a whole lot more about my
business's particular (and somewhat unique) market than most, including
the venerable Mr. Deacon, and will therefore endeavour to continue to
operate within that market to the best advantage of our company.
Meanwhile, to add to the recent praise for our releases from Leonard
Slatkin ("The results of this remastering are nothing short of
amazing"), here are a few other choice comments on some of our recent
releases, picked out for me by a friend of Pristine's:
PASC 157 " ... You need to turn to Andrew Rose's expert transfer of a
quite spectacular Toscanini account of Brahms's Second Symphony ... in
addition to being superbly played, it also lays claim to being one of
the most impassioned versions on disc." ... Rob Cowan Gramophone
PASC 163 " ... Pristine are usefully reissuing Alfred Hertz's recordings
with the San Francisco Symphony Orchestra ... Mark Obert-Thorn has
prepared the excellent basic transfers ..." Rob Cowan Gramophone
PASC 156 "Pristine Audio's transfer is quite outstanding ... the sound
is remarkable for its time ..." Robert Matthew-Walker Classic Record
Collector
PASC 168 " ... a clear, realistic recorded tone ... Full marks for the
silent background and immaculate side-joining - this is fine
refurbishment ..." Antony Hodgson Classic Record Collector
PASC 138 "Mark Obert-Thorn has remastered with typically fastidious care
and sensitive ears" Colin Anderson Classic Record Collector
PASC " ... the Tchaikovsky Fifth has Stokowski before 'his' Symphony
Orchestra, homogeneously producing the 'Stokowski Sound' in a virile,
often explosive performance, in enhanced sonics courtesy of the Pristine
XR process ... in improved audio imaging, the cumulative effect achieves
an imperious authority." Gary Lemco Audiophile Audition
These verdicts do seem something of a contrast to "sheer laziness and
utter greed", or "amateurish in the extreme"...
Andrew Rose
This arrived in a private e-mail this afternoon from someone who's
following this discussion but prefers not to join it directly:
"...It's only the likes of Stewart Brown of Testament who can afford to
license everything because he happens to be a millionaire through
property deals and his label is purely a hobby, so its sales are neither
here nor there..."
As I've said before - I cannot personally provide any evidence for this
- but my correspondent is someone whose word I have come to trust. Make
of it what you will.
wagnerfan
Andrew - Deacon is all washed up - no one pays attention to him anymore.
Keep doing your great work!!! Wagner Fan
td
> On Oct 18, 4:55 am, td <tomdedea...@mac.com> wrote:
> (snip)
>
>
>
>
>
> > Stokowski's Scheherazade is a very long way from Sir Adrian Boult
> > conducting English music or Antal Dorati performing some obscure
> > pieces by Respighi.
>
> > If you are serious about your enterprise - I have my doubts about
> > this, frankly - you should make it your goal to secure those
> > mastertapes one way or another. What you are doing so far is simply
> > amateurish in the extreme. Hit and miss. No grand design discernible.
>
> > My suggestion is that you avoid "cherry-picking" releases. This is
> > ALWAYS more expensive than striking a 100 tape deal. So, do your
> > research, line up the 100 mastertapes you want to license over time,
> > and then approach EMI or Universal with your plans and start talking
> > price. AND, most importantly, talk to the person who can say "yes",
> > not the little people who can only say "no", as they are saving their
> > own jobs by so doing.
>
> > TD
>
> So, Tom, are you offering to assist Andrew in licensing the tapes for
> a price at which, with his average item sales, he can make a
> reasonable profit (assuming his marketing and sales are up to snuff)?
> Otherwise, you're just engaging in your usual bully-boy stuff.
Mr. Rose needs my help?
Really, Bob? You think so?
He needs a business plan which comprises quality and profits. And he
needs an ability to schmooze the powers that hold these tapes.
Incidentally, Bob, I am not a "bully". Just a lone voice in this sea
of clicking heel conformity and group-think. Sometimes I think members
of this group are like lambs being led to the slaughter. Or to the
sheering pen.
TD
td
And in order to find the answer to that question, you would have to
see their contract, Bob.
Get real.
TD
td
In other words: I am here to make a profit and get those suckers to
buy this flawed junk at whatever price I can flog it for.
Advantage Mr. Rose.
The consumer is fucked in the left ear.
TD
td
The only person who is awash in ignorance is our little local mongrel
who worships at the feet of the greatest anti-semite of them all,
Hitler's favourite composer, Richard God love him because nobody else
will Wagner.
TD
Steve de Mena
> And I
> notice you've said nothing about the report from Cala that much of the
> source material was arguably no better than what Andrew has used.
>
> Bob Harper
Bob,
The poor source material Cala referred to were the 1947-49 Stokowski
tapes from Sony. That was from the very dawn of magnetic tape
recording. Do you honestly believe that is representative of the
condition of master tapes form the 1950s, when tape recording was the
norm?
Steve
Steve de Mena
It doesn't come across as a "hobby" in the article below, or in their
high prices.
Classical: Keeping Score
By Bradley Bambarger
Publication: Billboard
Date: Saturday, January 20 2001
This issue's column was prepared by Jeremy Eichler, who contributes
regularly to Newsday and other publications.
AFTER GROWING UP in a musical family, working for years as a freelance
clarinetist in London, and spending a short time
in the real estate business, Stewart Brown sat down one day to chat
about music with his friend Keith Hardwick, a transfer engineer for
EMI Classics. The two agreed that a decades-old recording of the Busch
Quartet and clarinetist Reginald Kell playing Brahms deserved to once
again see the light of day. The material was in the public domain, so
the two simply "cleaned up" the recording, re-issued it,
and�surprise�the album sold relatively well. "What would you like to
do next?" Hardwick asked Brown.
Before long, the Testament label was born, and Brown was negotiating
with the EMI legal department for the licenses of 20 recordings from
the company's archives. Today, almost a decade later, Brown�the
label's owner and sole proprietor�has built a formidable catalog of
more than 200 historical (and often historic) recordings. Perusing the
catalog is like flipping through the record collection of an elder
relative who spent a lifetime accumulating gems such as David Oistrakh
performing Sibelius, Clemens Krauss conducting Strauss, or Solomon
playing Beethoven. The difference is that while some of the Testament
recordings may have in fact existed in your grandfather's collection,
others�such as a recent Gramophone Award-winning set of Hans
Knappertsbusch conducting Wagner's "G�tterd�mmerung" at Bayreuth in
1951�have never been released prior to their appearance on Testament.
Since his company's founding, Brown has worked primarily to mine the
capacious resources of EMI. In recent years, though, he has also
negotiated with Decca and BMG for the rights to jewels he finds
languishing in their vaults. The thrill of discovery, it seems, is
part of what keeps him going.
"It's fantastic when you actually get an unpublished tape that no one
has ever heard, like the Beethoven Ninth with [Otto] Klemperer at the
Festival Hall in 1957," he says. "Walter Legge happened to record the
concert in perfect stereo, and the tape was just lying there in the
EMI archive. He made the studio recording a few days later, but the
live performance is just so exciting."
Of course, one has to wonder that if these recordings are so valuable,
how is it that the parent companies are willing to part with them? Or,
conversely, if they are obscure curiosities from a bygone era, how can
Testament use them to turn a profit?
"It's a strange situation," Brown explains. "This very powerful
artistic catalog is no longer commercially viable for these big
companies. It would take a monumental amount of time for EMI to put
out 100 years of music. They have to be selective, but even being
selective, they already have 3,000 items in their main catalog. To
deal with everything themselves is impossible."
So Brown has room to work his particular brand of alchemy, and for
once, it actually helps to be a small independent label with low
overhead. Once the recording is licensed, he lavishes care on the
sound quality and packaging, which includes vintage photographs and
new liner notes. And because he keeps costs low throughout the
process, Brown needs to sell only about 2,000 units to break even,
depending on the project. A major label such as EMI would need sales
of closer to 5,000 units before breaking even. Testament pays the
originating company royalties for use of the material, with the usual
deal being a 12% royalty on the CD's U.K. dealer price (although
packaging deductions apply).
Among Testament's future releases will be an unpublished EMI recording
of Klemperer conducting Beethoven's "Fidelio" live from Covent Garden
in 1961. For two years, Brown has also been negotiating with BMG and
the estate of Jascha Heifetz for the rights to issue a set of the
violinist's unpublished recordings. And this year, he hopes to begin
collaborating with Sony Classical in the way that his label has worked
with EMI and others. In February comes the highly anticipated third
volume of soprano Elisabeth Schwarzkopf's previously unreleased EMI
recordings, which has Schubert, Schumann, and Wolf lieder among other
recital material waxed from 1955 to 1964. Also forthcoming is a
three-disc survey of French baritone G�rard Souzay, comprising
Schumann, Chausson, Duparc, and "songs of many lands."
As for retail interest, Brown reports that, naturally enough,
different products hold appeal for different territories. He has found
that the Japanese, for example, can't get enough of German conductors
and instrumentalists, while American collectors tend to gravitate
toward Testament's vast selection of vocal albums. According to
Harmonia Mundi, Testament's U.S. distributor, the label's best-selling
title in the states is that '57 Klemperer Beethoven Ninth. After that
comes the famous postwar Beethoven Violin Concerto with Yehudi Menuhin
and Wilhelm Furtw�ngler. Other popular items include a Brahms symphony
cycle recorded live in 1952 with Arturo Toscanini leading London's
Philharmonia, as well as several titles by the Hollywood String
Quartet and discs devoted to violinist Nathan Milstein, cellist
Mstislav Rostropovich, and such golden-age singers as Schwarzkopf,
Victoria de Los Angeles, and Anna Moffo.
Even with what looks like a glut of historical material on the market,
Testament's appeal seems clear to retailers. "We don't stock a lot of
the pirate labels with their cheap transfers," says John Greene, a
buyer for Tower Records in New York. "Testament does it right, and you
can really tell the difference."
Steve
Andrew Rose
> ...Brown needs to
> sell only about 2,000 units to break even...
Record companies I've worked for thought they were doing well when they
passed the 200 units mark!
If it was as easy to sell "only about 2,000 units" as the article
implies, the world would be full of record companies thriving by doing so.
And if I'd sold "only about 2,000 units" of each of our recordings, I'd
be a retired multi-millionaire and not sitting here wrestling with a
live 1937 Toscanini recording of Falstaff and wondering if enough will
want to hear it at the end of the week to pay the bills...
Andrew Rose
And do you honestly have any personal experience to the contrary?
td
> do next?" Hardwick asked Brown.
>
> Before long, the Testament label was born, and Brown was negotiating
> with the EMI legal department for the licenses of 20 recordings from
> label's owner and sole proprietor—has built a formidable catalog of
> more than 200 historical (and often historic) recordings. Perusing the
> catalog is like flipping through the record collection of an elder
> relative who spent a lifetime accumulating gems such as David Oistrakh
> performing Sibelius, Clemens Krauss conducting Strauss, or Solomon
> playing Beethoven. The difference is that while some of the Testament
> recordings may have in fact existed in your grandfather's collection,
> Knappertsbusch conducting Wagner's "Götterdämmerung" at Bayreuth in
> 1951—have never been released prior to their appearance on Testament.
> Schumann, Chausson, Duparc, and "songs of many lands."
>
> As for retail interest, Brown reports that, naturally enough,
> different products hold appeal for different territories. He has found
> that the Japanese, for example, can't get enough of German conductors
> and instrumentalists, while American collectors tend to gravitate
> toward Testament's vast selection of vocal albums. According to
> Harmonia Mundi, Testament's U.S. distributor, the label's best-selling
> title in the states is that '57 Klemperer Beethoven Ninth. After that
> comes the famous postwar Beethoven Violin Concerto with Yehudi Menuhin
> cycle recorded live in 1952 with Arturo Toscanini leading London's
> Philharmonia, as well as several titles by the Hollywood String
> Quartet and discs devoted to violinist Nathan Milstein, cellist
> Mstislav Rostropovich, and such golden-age singers as Schwarzkopf,
> Victoria de Los Angeles, and Anna Moffo.
>
> Even with what looks like a glut of historical material on the market,
> Testament's appeal seems clear to retailers. "We don't stock a lot of
> the pirate labels with their cheap transfers," says John Greene, a
> buyer for Tower Records in New York. "Testament does it right, and you
> can really tell the difference."
INDEED!!!
Hear! Hear!
TD
td
> Steve de Mena wrote:
> > ...Brown needs to
> > sell only about 2,000 units to break even...
>
> Record companies I've worked for thought they were doing well when they
> passed the 200 units mark!
>
> If it was as easy to sell "only about 2,000 units" as the article
> implies, the world would be full of record companies thriving by doing so.
>
> And if I'd sold "only about 2,000 units" of each of our recordings, I'd
> be a retired multi-millionaire and not sitting here wrestling with a
> live 1937 Toscanini recording of Falstaff and wondering if enough will
> want to hear it at the end of the week to pay the bills...
Sounds as though you need a new business plan.
And some of Stewart Brown's negociating abilities.
TD
Gerard
> Steve de Mena wrote:
> > ...Brown needs to
> > sell only about 2,000 units to break even...
>
> Record companies I've worked for thought they were doing well when
> they passed the 200 units mark!
>
> If it was as easy to sell "only about 2,000 units" as the article
> implies, the world would be full of record companies thriving by
> doing so.
>
> And if I'd sold "only about 2,000 units" of each of our recordings,
> I'd be a retired multi-millionaire and not sitting here wrestling
> with a
> live 1937 Toscanini recording of Falstaff and wondering if enough will
> want to hear it at the end of the week to pay the bills...
That is the problem. Most people don't want to hear it.
td
Another "atout" for Mr. Brown. He knows how to pick and choose
interesting items from EMI's enormous back catalogue.
TD
Andrew Rose
Fortunately for us, and for those who do wish to hear it, there are
usually enough of them to make it happen.
Not forgetting that I'm only in this as a result of "greed and laziness"
([C]2009 T. Deacon)...
Bob Harper
And given the stated costs of licensing master tapes for material of
marginal commercial value, he is supposed to do this how? Or perhaps you
believe he should pay on a sliding scale based on sales. That might,
come to think of it, be a fair compromise provided the company would
hold up its end of the bargain if he had a big seller.
>
> Incidentally, Bob, I am not a "bully".
Of course not. You just play one on RMCR :)
Just a lone voice in this sea
> of clicking heel conformity and group-think. Sometimes I think members
> of this group are like lambs being led to the slaughter. Or to the
> sheering pen.
By the 'majors'?
Bob Harper
>
> TD
>
Bob Harper
that many (see Ehrling Sibelius) are not. I would love to see the best
sources used for reissues, but doing so must be economically feasible,
something I do not believe to be the case at present.
Bob Harper
wagnerfan
news:a7ce7931-d17f-4eb1...@d9g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
Bob Harper
Deacons not a bully - just an obnoxious washed up fool who can't tell one
performance from another - that's the person you want to help Andrew record
companies???? - they would throw both of them out on their ears
laughing!!!!!!! (I know you were kidding!!!) Wagner Fan
wagnerfan
2000 units!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Who sells 200 units these days other than
Bocelli???? Who in thier right minds would think you would sell 2,000 units
of your historical material???? Wagner fan
td
Sounds as though you should be negociating for Mr. Rose, Bob. Not an
original thought, but certainly one way of skinning the cat.
> > Incidentally, Bob, I am not a "bully".
>
> Of course not.
Glad you see that.
> You just play one on RMCR
Strong opinions forcefully stated do not make me a bully. Nor does
defense against the vicious attacks by many here, Bob, who seem to
take joy in attacking me personally.
If or when such attacks are levelled at you, I will leap to your
defense, Bob. Not that you should get comfort from this thought, of
course.
> Just a lone voice in this sea
>
> > of clicking heel conformity and group-think. Sometimes I think members
> > of this group are like lambs being led to the slaughter. Or to the
> > sheering pen.
>
> By the 'majors'?
Not likely. Theit products are hardly even discussed here.
TD
td
You really don't have enough information to make such a judgment, Bob.
TD
Gerard
Please learn how to quote (and to make a visible difference between your words
and those of others).
td
You're asking a lot of this pea-brain.
TD
Paul Goodman
> wagnerfan wrote:
>> "schmooze' "Bob Harper" <bob.h...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:a7ce7931-d17f-4eb1...@d9g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
>> So, Tom, are you offering to assist Andrew in licensing the tapes for
>> a price at which, with his average item sales, he can make a
>> reasonable profit (assuming his marketing and sales are up to snuff)?
>> Otherwise, you're just engaging in your usual bully-boy stuff. And I
>> notice you've said nothing about the report from Cala that much of the
>> source material was arguably no better than what Andrew has used.
>>
>> Bob Harper
>> Deacons not a bully - just an obnoxious washed up fool who can't tell
>> one performance from another - that's the person you want to help
>> Andrew record companies???? - they would throw both of them out on
>> their ears laughing!!!!!!! (I know you were kidding!!!) Wagner Fan
>
> Please learn how to quote (and to make a visible difference between your words
> and those of others).
Thank you, I agree. Why he insists on blending his response in with
the previous poster is beyond me.
--
Paul Goodman
Bob Harper
the use of commercial pressings solely to 'greed and laziness'. I would
welcome more information so as to make a more informed judgment.
Bob Harper
stanley murashige
The date of the Billboard article is January of 2001; perhaps that
makes something of a difference? While I've collected quite a number
of recordings from various historical labels, I've also found lots of
interest and lots to like in the remasterings produced and sold by
Andrew Rose. If I find something of interest and something I like in
the Pristine catalogue, I'll buy it. I've certainly enjoyed and
appreciated what I've bought so far. If someone wants to call me
foolhardy and tin-eared, well, so be it.
Stanley
Steve de Mena
> Steve de Mena wrote:
>> Bob Harper wrote:
>>
>>> And I
>>> notice you've said nothing about the report from Cala that much of the
>>> source material was arguably no better than what Andrew has used.
>>>
>>> Bob Harper
>>
>> Bob,
>>
>> The poor source material Cala referred to were the 1947-49 Stokowski
>> tapes from Sony. That was from the very dawn of magnetic tape
>> recording. Do you honestly believe that is representative of the
>> condition of master tapes form the 1950s, when tape recording was the
>> norm?
>
> And do you honestly have any personal experience to the contrary?
Yes, a thousand or more CDs in my library sourced from 1950s tapes
which somehow managed to survive.
If it costs too much to license them, then fine, but don't use a
blanket excuse like this...
Steve
Steve de Mena
15 or 20% royalty for licensing doesn't seem that unreasonable for
this sort of material. I didn't expect they were giving them away.
With good marketing and talented engineers like Andrew and MOT on
board, and the ability to advertise their better sources (versus Naxos
et al) they might be able to make it work. And they could sell in
the U.S., unlike Naxos.
Steve
Steve de Mena
> Otherwise, you're just engaging in your usual bully-boy stuff. And I
> notice you've said nothing about the report from Cala that much of the
> source material was arguably no better than what Andrew has used.
It was specifically tapes from 1947-49 (the very dawn of magnetic tape
recording) from Sony New York.
I have a feeling this Cala email will be cited as a blanket reason
(excuse) why remastering from LPs is acceptable for YEARS to come here
in RMCR.
Steve
Steve de Mena
Andrew's overhead sounds like even less than Testament's. If he
could get it down to a $1,000 fee advance and sell just 200 copies,
that would be just $5 a copy. The added legitimacy of licensed
material I assume will help sales to some degree.
Steve
Andrew Rose
The majority of our recordings sell 30-60 copies. Very few ever reach
"just 200". I've been trying to say this for a long time - some of you
really have no concept whatsoever as to quite how tiny the market is for
some/most of this stuff.
That said, my primary target is a new market - the online market - which
I believe is the long term future for this and will eventually realise
the kind of sales figures that have been bandied about here. But this is
still some considerable way off in a very traditional marketplace -
we're not selling to teenagers here...
> be just $5 a copy. The added legitimacy of licensed material I assume
> will help sales to some degree.
I doubt it would make a jot of difference. The majority either want to
hear something or they don't.
Andrew Rose
> Andrew Rose wrote:
>> Steve de Mena wrote:
>>> Bob Harper wrote:
>>>
>>>> And I
>>>> notice you've said nothing about the report from Cala that much of the
>>>> source material was arguably no better than what Andrew has used.
>>>>
>>>> Bob Harper
>>>
>>> Bob,
>>>
>>> The poor source material Cala referred to were the 1947-49 Stokowski
>>> tapes from Sony. That was from the very dawn of magnetic tape
>>> recording. Do you honestly believe that is representative of the
>>> condition of master tapes form the 1950s, when tape recording was the
>>> norm?
>>
>> And do you honestly have any personal experience to the contrary?
>
> Yes, a thousand or more CDs in my library sourced from 1950s tapes which
> somehow managed to survive.
You assume - I meant do you have any personal, hands-on experience.
Clearly not. When was the last time you laced up a tape from 1951?
td
Such information would be unwise to release here, Bob. But I have to
say that I was in a position to say yea or nay to licensing proposals
for about 10 years at Polygram/Universal. Moreover, I licensend
hundreds of recordings from other companies for the GPE. So, let us
say, I feel fully warranted to make the accusation I have and stick to
it.
Perseverance wins out in the day when you are going for quality.
TD
td
Particularly with The Gramophone on board as a cheerleader. Just make
sure the ex-editor is supplied with sufficient free product and he'll
be singing from the rafters.
TD
td
Correct.
And I have tried over and over again to point out the silliness of
ploughing over fields which have already been ploughed by others.
The back catalogue on 78 RPM recordings has NOT been exhausted. But,
of course, LPs are more convenient, cheaper, and also free of
copyright. But then the tape master comes into the frame and here the
master is what is needed, not some poor vinyl substitute. With 78s the
real master is better than a copy of a copy of that master, but
largely unavailable, except to people like Bryan Crimp who has had
access to EMI's archives in Hayes for his APR releases because of his
prior work for the company as an employee.
Materials for reissue have to be VERY carefully appraised for their
value and interest to the buying public. Releasing something to 60
people worldwide is not silly. It is futile. Makes no sense
whatsoever, except as a kind of hobby enterprise.
TD
td
> Steve de Mena wrote:
> > Andrew Rose wrote:
> >> Steve de Mena wrote:
> >>> Bob Harper wrote:
>
> >>>> And I
> >>>> notice you've said nothing about the report from Cala that much of the
> >>>> source material was arguably no better than what Andrew has used.
>
> >>>> Bob Harper
>
> >>> Bob,
>
> >>> The poor source material Cala referred to were the 1947-49 Stokowski
> >>> tapes from Sony. That was from the very dawn of magnetic tape
> >>> recording. Do you honestly believe that is representative of the
> >>> condition of master tapes form the 1950s, when tape recording was the
> >>> norm?
>
> >> And do you honestly have any personal experience to the contrary?
>
> > Yes, a thousand or more CDs in my library sourced from 1950s tapes which
> > somehow managed to survive.
>
> You assume - I meant do you have any personal, hands-on experience.
> Clearly not. When was the last time you laced up a tape from 1951?
Not so long ago, actually.
Moreover, Steve worked for a much revered radio station in Los Angeles
for many years, daily working with tapes of all vintages.
So, this is just another useless taunt. You simply do not have any
idea to whom you are addressing your words and just lash out trying to
impugn the reputations of others in order to defend yourself.
TD
Steve de Mena
> Steve de Mena wrote:
>> Andrew Rose wrote:
>>> Steve de Mena wrote:
>>>> Bob Harper wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> And I
>>>>> notice you've said nothing about the report from Cala that much of the
>>>>> source material was arguably no better than what Andrew has used.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bob Harper
>>>>
>>>> Bob,
>>>>
>>>> The poor source material Cala referred to were the 1947-49 Stokowski
>>>> tapes from Sony. That was from the very dawn of magnetic tape
>>>> recording. Do you honestly believe that is representative of the
>>>> condition of master tapes form the 1950s, when tape recording was
>>>> the norm?
>>>
>>> And do you honestly have any personal experience to the contrary?
>>
>> Yes, a thousand or more CDs in my library sourced from 1950s tapes
>> which somehow managed to survive.
>
> You assume - I meant do you have any personal, hands-on experience.
> Clearly not. When was the last time you laced up a tape from 1951?
It's been about 20 years.
Steve
Kip Williams
> Andrew's overhead sounds like even less than Testament's. If he could
> get it down to a $1,000 fee advance and sell just 200 copies, that would
> be just $5 a copy. The added legitimacy of licensed material I assume
> will help sales to some degree.
And if he sells 201, there's a cool $5 profit!
Kip W
weary flake
In other words, you insist "if Polygram/Universal can license recordings
from the major record companies ANYONE can!!!", which sounds pretty
stupid.
> Perseverance wins out in the day when you are going for quality.
The record companies need to be criticized constantly until they
re-release their archives themselves. They should be ashamed to
have recorded so much just to sit on the tapes.
graham
"weary flake" <weary...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:wearyflake-EE024...@news.giganews.com...
How stupid!! They are businesses, not charities and are under NO obligation
to release anything!!
Graham
td
> td <tomdedea...@mac.com> wrote:
> > On Oct 19, 10:11 pm, Bob Harper <bob.har...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > > Perhaps not, but neither have you sufficient information to attribute
> > > the use of commercial pressings solely to 'greed and laziness'. I would
> > > welcome more information so as to make a more informed judgment.
>
> > Such information would be unwise to release here, Bob. But I have to
> > say that I was in a position to say yea or nay to licensing proposals
> > for about 10 years at Polygram/Universal. Moreover, I licensend
> > hundreds of recordings from other companies for the GPE. So, let us
> > say, I feel fully warranted to make the accusation I have and stick to
> > it.
>
> In other words, you insist "if Polygram/Universal can license recordings
> from the major record companies ANYONE can!!!", which sounds pretty
> stupid.
It isn't "stupid", it was actually kind of neat. Frankly, the
companies had lots of reasons NOT to license their material because we
were going for their stars, not their "will never sell in a million
years"!!!
Indeed, it should be far easier to get that stuff than the stuff we
went for.
> > Perseverance wins out in the day when you are going for quality.
>
> The record companies need to be criticized constantly until they
> re-release their archives themselves. They should be ashamed to
> have recorded so much just to sit on the tapes.
Shame is an irrelevant subject in business. The major companies are
under NO obligations to release their back catalogues, if their
current cost structure does not permit it. You seem to want to force
them to lose money regardless, just for your own pleasure. They don't
buy that waterfront property in Nebraska you are trying to force on
them.
TD
td
> "weary flake" <wearyfl...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
Correct.
The statement is of such utter naivete and stupidity as almost not to
deserve any response.
TD
Steve de Mena
I guess Math wasn't your strongest subject?
Steve
O
Mena <st...@stevedemena.com> wrote:
I remember when I was in Boy Scouts, they told us if we sold just 200
magazines, we'd get that shiny new Schwinn bike!
-Owen, and they didn't have Playboy as a selection back then...
Simon Roberts
$ua.4...@en-nntp-05.dc1.easynews.com:
> This - and the immediately previous post by you - may have
> other-than-immediate significance. Testament CDs are not cheap. They
> tend to be premium, in fact.
Yes, though they end up being relatively more expensive in the U.S.; in the
U.K., minus VAT, they're c. $15 (some are less). I guess Harmonia Mundi
USA doesn't care that US buyers with computer access and awareness of
sellers such as mdt are not likely to buy Testament from domestic
sources....
Simon
Kip Williams
> Kip Williams wrote:
>> Steve de Mena wrote:
>>
>>> Andrew's overhead sounds like even less than Testament's. If he
>>> could get it down to a $1,000 fee advance and sell just 200 copies,
>>> that would be just $5 a copy. The added legitimacy of licensed
>>> material I assume will help sales to some degree.
>>
>> And if he sells 201, there's a cool $5 profit!
>
Nonsense In, Nonsense Out.
Kip W
td
> Nonsense In, Nonsense Out.
The RMCR story in a nutshell.
TD