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HIP Beethoven Overtures?
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Matthew Silverstein
Apr 28, 2013, 2:23:33 AM4/28/13
to
Are there any HIP recordings of Leonore III or Egmont?
I know at least three HIP recordings of Coriolan: Savall, Bruggen, and Gardiner (all three are excellent). And Gardiner recorded Leonore II as a part of his complete recording of the opera.
Matty
I know at least three HIP recordings of Coriolan: Savall, Bruggen, and Gardiner (all three are excellent). And Gardiner recorded Leonore II as a part of his complete recording of the opera.
Matty
jrsnfld
Apr 28, 2013, 2:59:45 AM4/28/13
to
On Apr 27, 11:23 pm, Matthew Silverstein
For Egmont: Immerseel (Anima Eterna) Goodman (Hanover Band), and
Hogwood, and Bruggen(Orch 18th C.) and Norrington (London Classical
Players) in their first cycles.
--Jeff
Hogwood, and Bruggen(Orch 18th C.) and Norrington (London Classical
Players) in their first cycles.
--Jeff
Gerard
Apr 28, 2013, 4:26:42 AM4/28/13
to
Matthew Silverstein <matthew.s...@gmail.com> typed:
It depends on your definition of 'HIP'.
Harnoncourt recorded those overtures, with the Chamber Orchestra of Europe.
Harnoncourt recorded those overtures, with the Chamber Orchestra of Europe.
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Matthew Silverstein
May 1, 2013, 2:10:21 PM5/1/13
to
On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 11:10:41 +1000, Terry wrote:
> Goodman and the Hanover Band have recorded The Consecration of the House,
> Fidelio, Egmont and Leonore II.
>
> Jos Immerseel and Anima Eterna have recorded Coriolan, Egmont Overture and
> the Ruins of Athens.
>
> Bruggen and Orchestra of the 18th Century have recorded Coriolan and Egmont,
> as have Hogwood and the Academy of Ancient Music.
>
> John Eliot and the Orchestre R�volutionnaire et Romantique Gardiner have
> recorded Coriolan Overture.
Thanks. My post mentioned several of those. No HIP recordings of Leonore
III? Too bad.
Matty
> Goodman and the Hanover Band have recorded The Consecration of the House,
> Fidelio, Egmont and Leonore II.
>
> Jos Immerseel and Anima Eterna have recorded Coriolan, Egmont Overture and
> the Ruins of Athens.
>
> Bruggen and Orchestra of the 18th Century have recorded Coriolan and Egmont,
> as have Hogwood and the Academy of Ancient Music.
>
> John Eliot and the Orchestre R�volutionnaire et Romantique Gardiner have
> recorded Coriolan Overture.
Thanks. My post mentioned several of those. No HIP recordings of Leonore
III? Too bad.
Matty
Johannes Roehl
May 2, 2013, 4:50:30 AM5/2/13
to
Am 01.05.2013 20:10, schrieb Matthew Silverstein:
> On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 11:10:41 +1000, Terry wrote:
>
>> Goodman and the Hanover Band have recorded The Consecration of the House,
>> Fidelio, Egmont and Leonore II.
>>
>> Jos Immerseel and Anima Eterna have recorded Coriolan, Egmont Overture and
>> the Ruins of Athens.
>>
>> Bruggen and Orchestra of the 18th Century have recorded Coriolan and Egmont,
>> as have Hogwood and the Academy of Ancient Music.
>>
>> John Eliot and the Orchestre Révolutionnaire et Romantique Gardiner have
> On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 11:10:41 +1000, Terry wrote:
>
>> Goodman and the Hanover Band have recorded The Consecration of the House,
>> Fidelio, Egmont and Leonore II.
>>
>> Jos Immerseel and Anima Eterna have recorded Coriolan, Egmont Overture and
>> the Ruins of Athens.
>>
>> Bruggen and Orchestra of the 18th Century have recorded Coriolan and Egmont,
>> as have Hogwood and the Academy of Ancient Music.
>>
>> recorded Coriolan Overture.
>
> Thanks. My post mentioned several of those. No HIP recordings of Leonore
> III? Too bad.
A puzzling fact, IMO, as Leonore III, Egmont and Coriolan must be the
>
> Thanks. My post mentioned several of those. No HIP recordings of Leonore
> III? Too bad.
most famous of his ouvertures. We have about 10 or so complete cycles of
the symphonies on period instruments, about 5 of the piano concerti, but
only a few ouvertures (Prometheus is also as a filler on Norrington I,
IIRC). It may be the CD's fault, because you can fit the symphonies on 5
discs without too many fillers...
Message has been deleted
Gerard
May 3, 2013, 4:06:01 AM5/3/13
to
Terry <bo...@clown.invalid> typed:
> On Thu, 2 May 2013 04:10:21 +1000, Matthew Silverstein wrote
> (in article <1gwxsapj82n3z.1...@40tude.net>):
> takes into account many of the HIP factors.
So why not count Harnoncourt in?
He recorded all above mentioned overtures, excepted Die Weihe des Hauses.
All on a single CD.
> On Thu, 2 May 2013 04:10:21 +1000, Matthew Silverstein wrote
> (in article <1gwxsapj82n3z.1...@40tude.net>):
>
> > On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 11:10:41 +1000, Terry wrote:
> >
> > > Goodman and the Hanover Band have recorded The Consecration of
> > > the House, Fidelio, Egmont and Leonore II.
> > >
> > > Jos Immerseel and Anima Eterna have recorded Coriolan, Egmont
> > > Overture and the Ruins of Athens.
> > >
> > > Bruggen and Orchestra of the 18th Century have recorded Coriolan
> > > and Egmont,
> > > as have Hogwood and the Academy of Ancient Music.
> > >
> > > John Eliot and the Orchestre R�volutionnaire et Romantique
> > On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 11:10:41 +1000, Terry wrote:
> >
> > > Goodman and the Hanover Band have recorded The Consecration of
> > > the House, Fidelio, Egmont and Leonore II.
> > >
> > > Jos Immerseel and Anima Eterna have recorded Coriolan, Egmont
> > > Overture and the Ruins of Athens.
> > >
> > > Bruggen and Orchestra of the 18th Century have recorded Coriolan
> > > and Egmont,
> > > as have Hogwood and the Academy of Ancient Music.
> > >
> > > Gardiner have recorded Coriolan Overture.
> >
> > Thanks. My post mentioned several of those. No HIP recordings of
> > Leonore III? Too bad.
> >
> > Matty
>
> Unless you count Zinman in Zurich. Modern instruments, but otherwise
> >
> > Thanks. My post mentioned several of those. No HIP recordings of
> > Leonore III? Too bad.
> >
> > Matty
>
> takes into account many of the HIP factors.
So why not count Harnoncourt in?
He recorded all above mentioned overtures, excepted Die Weihe des Hauses.
All on a single CD.
Bob Harper
May 3, 2013, 8:06:22 AM5/3/13
to
On 5/2/13 5:15 AM, Terry wrote:
> On Thu, 2 May 2013 04:10:21 +1000, Matthew Silverstein wrote
> (in article<1gwxsapj82n3z.1...@40tude.net>):
>
> On Thu, 2 May 2013 04:10:21 +1000, Matthew Silverstein wrote
> (in article<1gwxsapj82n3z.1...@40tude.net>):
>
>> On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 11:10:41 +1000, Terry wrote:
>>
>>> Goodman and the Hanover Band have recorded The Consecration of the House,
>>> Fidelio, Egmont and Leonore II.
>>>
>>> Jos Immerseel and Anima Eterna have recorded Coriolan, Egmont Overture and
>>> the Ruins of Athens.
>>>
>>> Bruggen and Orchestra of the 18th Century have recorded Coriolan and
>>> Egmont,
>>> as have Hogwood and the Academy of Ancient Music.
>>>
>>> John Eliot and the Orchestre Rï¿œvolutionnaire et Romantique Gardiner have
>>
>>> Goodman and the Hanover Band have recorded The Consecration of the House,
>>> Fidelio, Egmont and Leonore II.
>>>
>>> Jos Immerseel and Anima Eterna have recorded Coriolan, Egmont Overture and
>>> the Ruins of Athens.
>>>
>>> Bruggen and Orchestra of the 18th Century have recorded Coriolan and
>>> Egmont,
>>> as have Hogwood and the Academy of Ancient Music.
>>>
>>> recorded Coriolan Overture.
>>
>> Thanks. My post mentioned several of those. No HIP recordings of Leonore
>> III? Too bad.
>>
>> Matty
>
>>
>> Thanks. My post mentioned several of those. No HIP recordings of Leonore
>> III? Too bad.
>>
>> Matty
>
> Unless you count Zinman in Zurich. Modern instruments, but otherwise takes
> into account many of the HIP factors.
>
And Zinman uses period brass and tympani, so he should certainly be
> into account many of the HIP factors.
>
counted, IMO.
Bob Harper
Gerard
May 3, 2013, 9:28:36 AM5/3/13
to
Bob Harper <bob.h...@comcast.net> typed:
> On 5/2/13 5:15 AM, Terry wrote:
> > On Thu, 2 May 2013 04:10:21 +1000, Matthew Silverstein wrote
> > (in article<1gwxsapj82n3z.1...@40tude.net>):
> >
> > > On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 11:10:41 +1000, Terry wrote:
> > >
> > > > Goodman and the Hanover Band have recorded The Consecration of
> > > > the House, Fidelio, Egmont and Leonore II.
> > > >
> > > > Jos Immerseel and Anima Eterna have recorded Coriolan, Egmont
> > > > Overture and the Ruins of Athens.
> > > >
> > > > Bruggen and Orchestra of the 18th Century have recorded
> > > > Coriolan and Egmont,
> > > > as have Hogwood and the Academy of Ancient Music.
> > > >
> > > > John Eliot and the Orchestre Révolutionnaire et Romantique
> > On Thu, 2 May 2013 04:10:21 +1000, Matthew Silverstein wrote
> > (in article<1gwxsapj82n3z.1...@40tude.net>):
> >
> > > On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 11:10:41 +1000, Terry wrote:
> > >
> > > > Goodman and the Hanover Band have recorded The Consecration of
> > > > the House, Fidelio, Egmont and Leonore II.
> > > >
> > > > Jos Immerseel and Anima Eterna have recorded Coriolan, Egmont
> > > > Overture and the Ruins of Athens.
> > > >
> > > > Bruggen and Orchestra of the 18th Century have recorded
> > > > Coriolan and Egmont,
> > > > as have Hogwood and the Academy of Ancient Music.
> > > >
> > > > Gardiner have recorded Coriolan Overture.
> > >
> > > Thanks. My post mentioned several of those. No HIP recordings of
> > > Leonore III? Too bad.
> > >
> > > Matty
> >
> > Unless you count Zinman in Zurich. Modern instruments, but
> > otherwise takes into account many of the HIP factors.
> >
> And Zinman uses period brass and tympani, so he should certainly be
> counted, IMO.
>
> Bob Harper
But Harnoncourt should not be counted?
> > >
> > > Thanks. My post mentioned several of those. No HIP recordings of
> > > Leonore III? Too bad.
> > >
> > > Matty
> >
> > Unless you count Zinman in Zurich. Modern instruments, but
> > otherwise takes into account many of the HIP factors.
> >
> And Zinman uses period brass and tympani, so he should certainly be
> counted, IMO.
>
> Bob Harper
Bob Harper
May 3, 2013, 11:00:55 AM5/3/13
to
Bob Harper
Gerard
May 3, 2013, 11:19:13 AM5/3/13
to
I had a question, you didn't answer.
wkasimer
May 3, 2013, 11:29:24 AM5/3/13
to
On May 3, 11:19 am, "Gerard" <g_nospam-hendrik...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Bob Harper <bob.har...@comcast.net> typed:
Bill
> Bob Harper <bob.har...@comcast.net> typed:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 5/3/13 6:28 AM, Gerard wrote:
> > > Bob Harper<bob.har...@comcast.net> typed:
>
>
>
>
> > On 5/3/13 6:28 AM, Gerard wrote:
> > > > On 5/2/13 5:15 AM, Terry wrote:
> > > > > On Thu, 2 May 2013 04:10:21 +1000, Matthew Silverstein wrote
> > > > > (in article<1gwxsapj82n3z.128f837o4b1dq....@40tude.net>):
> > > > > On Thu, 2 May 2013 04:10:21 +1000, Matthew Silverstein wrote
>
> > > > > > On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 11:10:41 +1000, Terry wrote:
>
> > > > > > > Goodman and the Hanover Band have recorded The Consecration
> > > > > > > of the House, Fidelio, Egmont and Leonore II.
>
> > > > > > > Jos Immerseel and Anima Eterna have recorded Coriolan,
> > > > > > > Egmont Overture and the Ruins of Athens.
>
> > > > > > > Bruggen and Orchestra of the 18th Century have recorded
> > > > > > > Coriolan and Egmont,
> > > > > > > as have Hogwood and the Academy of Ancient Music.
>
> > > > > > > John Eliot and the Orchestre Révolutionnaire et Romantique
> > > > > > > Gardiner have recorded Coriolan Overture.
>
> > > > > > Thanks. My post mentioned several of those. No HIP recordings
> > > > > > of Leonore III? Too bad.
>
> > > > > > Matty
>
> > > > > Unless you count Zinman in Zurich. Modern instruments, but
> > > > > otherwise takes into account many of the HIP factors.
>
> > > > And Zinman uses period brass and tympani, so he should certainly
> > > > be counted, IMO.
>
> > > > Bob Harper
>
> > > But Harnoncourt should not be counted?
>
> > Um, I was seconding Zinman, not commenting on Harnoncourt.
>
> > Bob Harper
>
> I did see that.
> I had a question, you didn't answer
Why should he answer it?
> > > > > > On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 11:10:41 +1000, Terry wrote:
>
> > > > > > > Goodman and the Hanover Band have recorded The Consecration
> > > > > > > of the House, Fidelio, Egmont and Leonore II.
>
> > > > > > > Jos Immerseel and Anima Eterna have recorded Coriolan,
> > > > > > > Egmont Overture and the Ruins of Athens.
>
> > > > > > > Bruggen and Orchestra of the 18th Century have recorded
> > > > > > > Coriolan and Egmont,
> > > > > > > as have Hogwood and the Academy of Ancient Music.
>
> > > > > > > John Eliot and the Orchestre Révolutionnaire et Romantique
> > > > > > > Gardiner have recorded Coriolan Overture.
>
> > > > > > Thanks. My post mentioned several of those. No HIP recordings
> > > > > > of Leonore III? Too bad.
>
> > > > > > Matty
>
> > > > > Unless you count Zinman in Zurich. Modern instruments, but
> > > > > otherwise takes into account many of the HIP factors.
>
> > > > And Zinman uses period brass and tympani, so he should certainly
> > > > be counted, IMO.
>
> > > > Bob Harper
>
> > > But Harnoncourt should not be counted?
>
> > Um, I was seconding Zinman, not commenting on Harnoncourt.
>
> > Bob Harper
>
> I did see that.
> I had a question, you didn't answer
Bill
Gerard
May 3, 2013, 11:33:41 AM5/3/13
to
wkasimer <wkas...@comcast.net> typed:
What about this being a newsgroup about recordings of classical music?
You've never seen that people are willing to answer questions in newsgroups?
Such behaviour was very usual.
> On May 3, 11:19 am, "Gerard" <g_nospam-hendrik...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Bob Harper <bob.har...@comcast.net> typed:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > On 5/3/13 6:28 AM, Gerard wrote:
> > > > Bob Harper<bob.har...@comcast.net> typed:
> > > > > On 5/2/13 5:15 AM, Terry wrote:
> > > > > > On Thu, 2 May 2013 04:10:21 +1000, Matthew Silverstein wrote
> > > > > > (in article<1gwxsapj82n3z.128f837o4b1dq....@40tude.net>):
> >
> > > > > > > On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 11:10:41 +1000, Terry wrote:
> >
> > > > > > > > Goodman and the Hanover Band have recorded The
> > > > > > > > Consecration of the House, Fidelio, Egmont and Leonore
> > > > > > > > II.
> >
> > > > > > > > Jos Immerseel and Anima Eterna have recorded Coriolan,
> > > > > > > > Egmont Overture and the Ruins of Athens.
> >
> > > > > > > > Bruggen and Orchestra of the 18th Century have recorded
> > > > > > > > Coriolan and Egmont,
> > > > > > > > as have Hogwood and the Academy of Ancient Music.
> >
> > > > > > > > John Eliot and the Orchestre R�volutionnaire et
> > Bob Harper <bob.har...@comcast.net> typed:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > On 5/3/13 6:28 AM, Gerard wrote:
> > > > Bob Harper<bob.har...@comcast.net> typed:
> > > > > On 5/2/13 5:15 AM, Terry wrote:
> > > > > > On Thu, 2 May 2013 04:10:21 +1000, Matthew Silverstein wrote
> > > > > > (in article<1gwxsapj82n3z.128f837o4b1dq....@40tude.net>):
> >
> > > > > > > On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 11:10:41 +1000, Terry wrote:
> >
> > > > > > > > Goodman and the Hanover Band have recorded The
> > > > > > > > Consecration of the House, Fidelio, Egmont and Leonore
> > > > > > > > II.
> >
> > > > > > > > Jos Immerseel and Anima Eterna have recorded Coriolan,
> > > > > > > > Egmont Overture and the Ruins of Athens.
> >
> > > > > > > > Bruggen and Orchestra of the 18th Century have recorded
> > > > > > > > Coriolan and Egmont,
> > > > > > > > as have Hogwood and the Academy of Ancient Music.
> >
> > > > > > > > Romantique Gardiner have recorded Coriolan Overture.
> >
> > > > > > > Thanks. My post mentioned several of those. No HIP
> > > > > > > recordings of Leonore III? Too bad.
> >
> > > > > > > Matty
> >
> > > > > > Unless you count Zinman in Zurich. Modern instruments, but
> > > > > > otherwise takes into account many of the HIP factors.
> >
> > > > > And Zinman uses period brass and tympani, so he should
> > > > > certainly be counted, IMO.
> >
> > > > > Bob Harper
> >
> > > > But Harnoncourt should not be counted?
> >
> > > Um, I was seconding Zinman, not commenting on Harnoncourt.
> >
> > > Bob Harper
> >
> > I did see that.
> > I had a question, you didn't answer
>
> Why should he answer it?
>
> Bill
Why do you ask if you don't know why people answer questions?
> >
> > > > > > > Thanks. My post mentioned several of those. No HIP
> > > > > > > recordings of Leonore III? Too bad.
> >
> > > > > > > Matty
> >
> > > > > > Unless you count Zinman in Zurich. Modern instruments, but
> > > > > > otherwise takes into account many of the HIP factors.
> >
> > > > > And Zinman uses period brass and tympani, so he should
> > > > > certainly be counted, IMO.
> >
> > > > > Bob Harper
> >
> > > > But Harnoncourt should not be counted?
> >
> > > Um, I was seconding Zinman, not commenting on Harnoncourt.
> >
> > > Bob Harper
> >
> > I did see that.
> > I had a question, you didn't answer
>
> Why should he answer it?
>
> Bill
What about this being a newsgroup about recordings of classical music?
You've never seen that people are willing to answer questions in newsgroups?
Such behaviour was very usual.
Bob Harper
May 3, 2013, 11:33:14 AM5/3/13
to
Henricksen's normal mode?
Bob Harper
Gerard
May 3, 2013, 11:40:13 AM5/3/13
to
Bob Harper <bob.h...@comcast.net> typed:
Rudely?
Peremptorily?
Did you actually read my question?
Have a look at all the questions by the very nice M forever you're always
willing to answer.
> On 5/3/13 8:29 AM, wkasimer wrote:
> > On May 3, 11:19 am, "Gerard"<g_nospam-hendrik...@hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > Bob Harper<bob.har...@comcast.net> typed:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > On 5/3/13 6:28 AM, Gerard wrote:
> > > > > Bob Harper<bob.har...@comcast.net> typed:
> > > > > > On 5/2/13 5:15 AM, Terry wrote:
> > > > > > > On Thu, 2 May 2013 04:10:21 +1000, Matthew Silverstein
> > > > > > > wrote (in
> > > > > > > article<1gwxsapj82n3z.128f837o4b1dq....@40tude.net>):
> > >
> > > > > > > > On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 11:10:41 +1000, Terry wrote:
> > >
> > > > > > > > > Goodman and the Hanover Band have recorded The
> > > > > > > > > Consecration of the House, Fidelio, Egmont and
> > > > > > > > > Leonore II.
> > >
> > > > > > > > > Jos Immerseel and Anima Eterna have recorded Coriolan,
> > > > > > > > > Egmont Overture and the Ruins of Athens.
> > >
> > > > > > > > > Bruggen and Orchestra of the 18th Century have
> > > > > > > > > recorded Coriolan and Egmont,
> > > > > > > > > as have Hogwood and the Academy of Ancient Music.
> > >
> > > > > > > > > John Eliot and the Orchestre R�volutionnaire et
> > On May 3, 11:19 am, "Gerard"<g_nospam-hendrik...@hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > Bob Harper<bob.har...@comcast.net> typed:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > On 5/3/13 6:28 AM, Gerard wrote:
> > > > > Bob Harper<bob.har...@comcast.net> typed:
> > > > > > On 5/2/13 5:15 AM, Terry wrote:
> > > > > > > On Thu, 2 May 2013 04:10:21 +1000, Matthew Silverstein
> > > > > > > wrote (in
> > > > > > > article<1gwxsapj82n3z.128f837o4b1dq....@40tude.net>):
> > >
> > > > > > > > On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 11:10:41 +1000, Terry wrote:
> > >
> > > > > > > > > Goodman and the Hanover Band have recorded The
> > > > > > > > > Consecration of the House, Fidelio, Egmont and
> > > > > > > > > Leonore II.
> > >
> > > > > > > > > Jos Immerseel and Anima Eterna have recorded Coriolan,
> > > > > > > > > Egmont Overture and the Ruins of Athens.
> > >
> > > > > > > > > Bruggen and Orchestra of the 18th Century have
> > > > > > > > > recorded Coriolan and Egmont,
> > > > > > > > > as have Hogwood and the Academy of Ancient Music.
> > >
> > > > > > > > > Romantique Gardiner have recorded Coriolan Overture.
> > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks. My post mentioned several of those. No HIP
> > > > > > > > recordings of Leonore III? Too bad.
> > >
> > > > > > > > Matty
> > >
> > > > > > > Unless you count Zinman in Zurich. Modern instruments, but
> > > > > > > otherwise takes into account many of the HIP factors.
> > >
> > > > > > And Zinman uses period brass and tympani, so he should
> > > > > > certainly be counted, IMO.
> > >
> > > > > > Bob Harper
> > >
> > > > > But Harnoncourt should not be counted?
> > >
> > > > Um, I was seconding Zinman, not commenting on Harnoncourt.
> > >
> > > > Bob Harper
> > >
> > > I did see that.
> > > I had a question, you didn't answer
> >
> > Why should he answer it?
> >
> > Bill
>
> Why indeed, when it is put so rudely and peremptorily, i.e. in Mr.
> Henricksen's normal mode?
>
> Bob Harper
You must be kidding.
> > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks. My post mentioned several of those. No HIP
> > > > > > > > recordings of Leonore III? Too bad.
> > >
> > > > > > > > Matty
> > >
> > > > > > > Unless you count Zinman in Zurich. Modern instruments, but
> > > > > > > otherwise takes into account many of the HIP factors.
> > >
> > > > > > And Zinman uses period brass and tympani, so he should
> > > > > > certainly be counted, IMO.
> > >
> > > > > > Bob Harper
> > >
> > > > > But Harnoncourt should not be counted?
> > >
> > > > Um, I was seconding Zinman, not commenting on Harnoncourt.
> > >
> > > > Bob Harper
> > >
> > > I did see that.
> > > I had a question, you didn't answer
> >
> > Why should he answer it?
> >
> > Bill
>
> Why indeed, when it is put so rudely and peremptorily, i.e. in Mr.
> Henricksen's normal mode?
>
> Bob Harper
Rudely?
Peremptorily?
Did you actually read my question?
Have a look at all the questions by the very nice M forever you're always
willing to answer.
Bob Harper
May 3, 2013, 12:36:06 PM5/3/13
to
On 5/3/13 8:40 AM, Gerard wrote:
> Bob Harper<bob.h...@comcast.net> typed:
questions--assuming he does such a thing as ask a question. Let me
suggest how you might have phrased *your* question so as to have
obtained a response:
Me: And Zinman uses period brass and tympani, so he should
certainly be counted, IMO.
You: But Harnoncourt should not be counted?
How about instead: "Would you include Harnoncourt, given that he employs
similar brass and tympani?"
or
"What do you think about Harnoncourt, who talks in the interview booklet
about certain period techniques he employs?"
Either of these (or many other formulations) would be fine; what you
wrote was exactly as I described--rude and peremptory, and thus I
declined to answer.
Bob Harper
> Bob Harper<bob.h...@comcast.net> typed:
>> On 5/3/13 8:29 AM, wkasimer wrote:
>>> On May 3, 11:19 am, "Gerard"<g_nospam-hendrik...@hotmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Bob Harper<bob.har...@comcast.net> typed:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 5/3/13 6:28 AM, Gerard wrote:
>>>>>> Bob Harper<bob.har...@comcast.net> typed:
>>>>>>> On 5/2/13 5:15 AM, Terry wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Thu, 2 May 2013 04:10:21 +1000, Matthew Silverstein
>>>>>>>> wrote (in
>>>>>>>> article<1gwxsapj82n3z.128f837o4b1dq....@40tude.net>):
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 11:10:41 +1000, Terry wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Goodman and the Hanover Band have recorded The
>>>>>>>>>> Consecration of the House, Fidelio, Egmont and
>>>>>>>>>> Leonore II.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Jos Immerseel and Anima Eterna have recorded
>>>>>>>>>> Coriolan, Egmont Overture and the Ruins of Athens.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Bruggen and Orchestra of the 18th Century have
>>>>>>>>>> recorded Coriolan and Egmont, as have Hogwood and
>>>>>>>>>> the Academy of Ancient Music.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> John Eliot and the Orchestre Révolutionnaire et
>>> On May 3, 11:19 am, "Gerard"<g_nospam-hendrik...@hotmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Bob Harper<bob.har...@comcast.net> typed:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 5/3/13 6:28 AM, Gerard wrote:
>>>>>> Bob Harper<bob.har...@comcast.net> typed:
>>>>>>> On 5/2/13 5:15 AM, Terry wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Thu, 2 May 2013 04:10:21 +1000, Matthew Silverstein
>>>>>>>> wrote (in
>>>>>>>> article<1gwxsapj82n3z.128f837o4b1dq....@40tude.net>):
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 11:10:41 +1000, Terry wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Goodman and the Hanover Band have recorded The
>>>>>>>>>> Consecration of the House, Fidelio, Egmont and
>>>>>>>>>> Leonore II.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Jos Immerseel and Anima Eterna have recorded
>>>>>>>>>> Coriolan, Egmont Overture and the Ruins of Athens.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Bruggen and Orchestra of the 18th Century have
>>>>>>>>>> recorded Coriolan and Egmont, as have Hogwood and
>>>>>>>>>> the Academy of Ancient Music.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Romantique Gardiner have recorded Coriolan
>>>>>>>>>> Overture.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks. My post mentioned several of those. No HIP
>>>>>>>>> recordings of Leonore III? Too bad.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Matty
>>>>
>>>>>>>> Unless you count Zinman in Zurich. Modern instruments,
>>>>>>>> but otherwise takes into account many of the HIP
>>>>>>>> factors.
>>>>
>>>>>>> And Zinman uses period brass and tympani, so he should
>>>>>>> certainly be counted, IMO.
>>>>
>>>>>>> Bob Harper
>>>>
>>>>>> But Harnoncourt should not be counted?
>>>>
>>>>> Um, I was seconding Zinman, not commenting on Harnoncourt.
>>>>
>>>>> Bob Harper
>>>>
>>>> I did see that. I had a question, you didn't answer
>>>
>>> Why should he answer it?
>>>
>>> Bill
>>
>> Why indeed, when it is put so rudely and peremptorily, i.e. in Mr.
>> Henricksen's normal mode?
>>
>> Bob Harper
>
> You must be kidding. Rudely? Peremptorily? Did you actually read my
> question? Have a look at all the questions by the very nice M forever
> you're always willing to answer.
>
I'll ignore the part about Michael as I'm not sure I ever answer his
>>>>>>>>>> Overture.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks. My post mentioned several of those. No HIP
>>>>>>>>> recordings of Leonore III? Too bad.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Matty
>>>>
>>>>>>>> Unless you count Zinman in Zurich. Modern instruments,
>>>>>>>> but otherwise takes into account many of the HIP
>>>>>>>> factors.
>>>>
>>>>>>> And Zinman uses period brass and tympani, so he should
>>>>>>> certainly be counted, IMO.
>>>>
>>>>>>> Bob Harper
>>>>
>>>>>> But Harnoncourt should not be counted?
>>>>
>>>>> Um, I was seconding Zinman, not commenting on Harnoncourt.
>>>>
>>>>> Bob Harper
>>>>
>>>> I did see that. I had a question, you didn't answer
>>>
>>> Why should he answer it?
>>>
>>> Bill
>>
>> Why indeed, when it is put so rudely and peremptorily, i.e. in Mr.
>> Henricksen's normal mode?
>>
>> Bob Harper
>
> You must be kidding. Rudely? Peremptorily? Did you actually read my
> question? Have a look at all the questions by the very nice M forever
> you're always willing to answer.
>
questions--assuming he does such a thing as ask a question. Let me
suggest how you might have phrased *your* question so as to have
obtained a response:
Me: And Zinman uses period brass and tympani, so he should
certainly be counted, IMO.
You: But Harnoncourt should not be counted?
How about instead: "Would you include Harnoncourt, given that he employs
similar brass and tympani?"
or
"What do you think about Harnoncourt, who talks in the interview booklet
about certain period techniques he employs?"
Either of these (or many other formulations) would be fine; what you
wrote was exactly as I described--rude and peremptory, and thus I
declined to answer.
Bob Harper
Gerard
May 3, 2013, 1:09:06 PM5/3/13
to
*never* use for other participants) about my question only testifies of not
*wanting* to answer.
Anyway: Harnoncourt is more HIP (imo) than Zinman.
wkasimer
May 3, 2013, 1:53:49 PM5/3/13
to
On May 3, 11:33 am, "Gerard" <g_nospam-hendrik...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> wkasimer <wkasi...@comcast.net> typed:
Hardly. I can think of at least a dozen reasons why Bob, or anyone
else, might not answer a question.
Bill
> wkasimer <wkasi...@comcast.net> typed:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 3, 11:19 am, "Gerard" <g_nospam-hendrik...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > Bob Harper <bob.har...@comcast.net> typed:
>
> > > > On 5/3/13 6:28 AM, Gerard wrote:
> > > > > Bob Harper<bob.har...@comcast.net> typed:
> > > > > > On 5/2/13 5:15 AM, Terry wrote:
> > > > > > > On Thu, 2 May 2013 04:10:21 +1000, Matthew Silverstein wrote
> > > > > > > (in article<1gwxsapj82n3z.128f837o4b1dq....@40tude.net>):
>
> > > > > > > > On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 11:10:41 +1000, Terry wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > Goodman and the Hanover Band have recorded The
> > > > > > > > > Consecration of the House, Fidelio, Egmont and Leonore
> > > > > > > > > II.
>
> > > > > > > > > Jos Immerseel and Anima Eterna have recorded Coriolan,
> > > > > > > > > Egmont Overture and the Ruins of Athens.
>
> > > > > > > > > Bruggen and Orchestra of the 18th Century have recorded
> > > > > > > > > Coriolan and Egmont,
> > > > > > > > > as have Hogwood and the Academy of Ancient Music.
>
> > > > > > > > > John Eliot and the Orchestre R volutionnaire et
>
>
>
>
> > On May 3, 11:19 am, "Gerard" <g_nospam-hendrik...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > Bob Harper <bob.har...@comcast.net> typed:
>
> > > > On 5/3/13 6:28 AM, Gerard wrote:
> > > > > Bob Harper<bob.har...@comcast.net> typed:
> > > > > > On 5/2/13 5:15 AM, Terry wrote:
> > > > > > > On Thu, 2 May 2013 04:10:21 +1000, Matthew Silverstein wrote
> > > > > > > (in article<1gwxsapj82n3z.128f837o4b1dq....@40tude.net>):
>
> > > > > > > > On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 11:10:41 +1000, Terry wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > Goodman and the Hanover Band have recorded The
> > > > > > > > > Consecration of the House, Fidelio, Egmont and Leonore
> > > > > > > > > II.
>
> > > > > > > > > Jos Immerseel and Anima Eterna have recorded Coriolan,
> > > > > > > > > Egmont Overture and the Ruins of Athens.
>
> > > > > > > > > Bruggen and Orchestra of the 18th Century have recorded
> > > > > > > > > Coriolan and Egmont,
> > > > > > > > > as have Hogwood and the Academy of Ancient Music.
>
> > > > > > > > > Romantique Gardiner have recorded Coriolan Overture.
>
> > > > > > > > Thanks. My post mentioned several of those. No HIP
> > > > > > > > recordings of Leonore III? Too bad.
>
> > > > > > > > Matty
>
> > > > > > > Unless you count Zinman in Zurich. Modern instruments, but
> > > > > > > otherwise takes into account many of the HIP factors.
>
> > > > > > And Zinman uses period brass and tympani, so he should
> > > > > > certainly be counted, IMO.
>
> > > > > > Bob Harper
>
> > > > > But Harnoncourt should not be counted?
>
> > > > Um, I was seconding Zinman, not commenting on Harnoncourt.
>
> > > > Bob Harper
>
> > > I did see that.
> > > I had a question, you didn't answer
>
> > Why should he answer it?
>
> > Bill
>
> Why do you ask if you don't know why people answer questions?
> What about this being a newsgroup about recordings of classical music?
> You've never seen that people are willing to answer questions in newsgroups?
> Such behaviour was very usual.-
>
> > > > > > > > Thanks. My post mentioned several of those. No HIP
> > > > > > > > recordings of Leonore III? Too bad.
>
> > > > > > > > Matty
>
> > > > > > > Unless you count Zinman in Zurich. Modern instruments, but
> > > > > > > otherwise takes into account many of the HIP factors.
>
> > > > > > And Zinman uses period brass and tympani, so he should
> > > > > > certainly be counted, IMO.
>
> > > > > > Bob Harper
>
> > > > > But Harnoncourt should not be counted?
>
> > > > Um, I was seconding Zinman, not commenting on Harnoncourt.
>
> > > > Bob Harper
>
> > > I did see that.
> > > I had a question, you didn't answer
>
> > Why should he answer it?
>
> > Bill
>
> Why do you ask if you don't know why people answer questions?
> What about this being a newsgroup about recordings of classical music?
> You've never seen that people are willing to answer questions in newsgroups?
Hardly. I can think of at least a dozen reasons why Bob, or anyone
else, might not answer a question.
Bill
wkasimer
May 3, 2013, 1:55:00 PM5/3/13
to
On May 3, 1:09 pm, "Gerard" <g_nospam-hendrik...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Anyway: Harnoncourt is more HIP (imo) than Zinman.
If you think so, why did you bother to ask the question?
> Anyway: Harnoncourt is more HIP (imo) than Zinman.
Bill
jrsnfld
May 3, 2013, 4:38:13 PM5/3/13
to
and addressed himself to Terry instead. This isn't the best newsgroup
etiquette, but, as we know, it is a common mistake to make, with no
harm intended.
However, I can see why Gerard would be a bit peeved. This was the
second time in the thread that his question about why Harnoncourt's
recording doesn't count as HIP was shoved aside without response.
I can only answer Gerard with my own 2 cents, which is: I didn't
mention Harnoncourt's recording because I was about 90% certain the
original poster would not count the modern-instrument as HIP, and
therefore the question was as much (maybe mostly) about use of "period
instruments" as it was about style or interpretation.
--Jeff
Bob Harper
May 3, 2013, 7:10:29 PM5/3/13
to
On 5/3/13 1:38 PM, jrsnfld wrote:
> On May 3, 8:29 am, wkasimer<wkasi...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> On May 3, 11:19 am, "Gerard"<g_nospam-hendrik...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Bob Harper<bob.har...@comcast.net> typed:
>>
>>>> On 5/3/13 6:28 AM, Gerard wrote:
>>>>> Bob Harper<bob.har...@comcast.net> typed:
>>>>>> On 5/2/13 5:15 AM, Terry wrote:
>>>>>>> On Thu, 2 May 2013 04:10:21 +1000, Matthew Silverstein wrote
>>>>>>> (in article<1gwxsapj82n3z.128f837o4b1dq....@40tude.net>):
>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 11:10:41 +1000, Terry wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>>> Goodman and the Hanover Band have recorded The Consecration
>>>>>>>>> of the House, Fidelio, Egmont and Leonore II.
>>
>>>>>>>>> Jos Immerseel and Anima Eterna have recorded Coriolan,
>>>>>>>>> Egmont Overture and the Ruins of Athens.
>>
>>>>>>>>> Bruggen and Orchestra of the 18th Century have recorded
>>>>>>>>> Coriolan and Egmont,
>>>>>>>>> as have Hogwood and the Academy of Ancient Music.
>>
>>>>>>>>> John Eliot and the Orchestre R�volutionnaire et Romantique
> On May 3, 8:29 am, wkasimer<wkasi...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> On May 3, 11:19 am, "Gerard"<g_nospam-hendrik...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Bob Harper<bob.har...@comcast.net> typed:
>>
>>>> On 5/3/13 6:28 AM, Gerard wrote:
>>>>> Bob Harper<bob.har...@comcast.net> typed:
>>>>>> On 5/2/13 5:15 AM, Terry wrote:
>>>>>>> On Thu, 2 May 2013 04:10:21 +1000, Matthew Silverstein wrote
>>>>>>> (in article<1gwxsapj82n3z.128f837o4b1dq....@40tude.net>):
>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 11:10:41 +1000, Terry wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>>> Goodman and the Hanover Band have recorded The Consecration
>>>>>>>>> of the House, Fidelio, Egmont and Leonore II.
>>
>>>>>>>>> Jos Immerseel and Anima Eterna have recorded Coriolan,
>>>>>>>>> Egmont Overture and the Ruins of Athens.
>>
>>>>>>>>> Bruggen and Orchestra of the 18th Century have recorded
>>>>>>>>> Coriolan and Egmont,
>>>>>>>>> as have Hogwood and the Academy of Ancient Music.
>>
thought it was Terry. My error. FWIW, if HIP means instruments then
neither H nor Z qualify (well, maybe partly); if it means style and
interpretation, then both are on the HIP spectrum, though I'm not sure
who is closer to 'The Real Thing', whatever that is--IF it is.
Bob Harper
Message has been deleted
Terry
May 5, 2013, 5:46:17 AM5/5/13
to
--
Cheers! Terry.
Terry
May 5, 2013, 5:46:17 AM5/5/13
to
"Gerard" <g_nospam-...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> wkasimer <wkas...@comcast.net> typed:
>> On May 3, 11:19 am, "Gerard" <g_nospam-hendrik...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> Bob Harper <bob.har...@comcast.net> typed:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 5/3/13 6:28 AM, Gerard wrote:
>>>>> Bob Harper<bob.har...@comcast.net> typed:
>>>>>> On 5/2/13 5:15 AM, Terry wrote:
>>>>>>> On Thu, 2 May 2013 04:10:21 +1000, Matthew Silverstein wrote
>>>>>>> (in article<1gwxsapj82n3z.128f837o4b1dq....@40tude.net>):
>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 11:10:41 +1000, Terry wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>>> Goodman and the Hanover Band have recorded The
>>>>>>>>> Consecration of the House, Fidelio, Egmont and Leonore
>>>>>>>>> II.
>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jos Immerseel and Anima Eterna have recorded Coriolan,
>>>>>>>>> Egmont Overture and the Ruins of Athens.
>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bruggen and Orchestra of the 18th Century have recorded
>>>>>>>>> Coriolan and Egmont,
>>>>>>>>> as have Hogwood and the Academy of Ancient Music.
>>>
>>>>>>>>> John Eliot and the Orchestre Révolutionnaire et
> wkasimer <wkas...@comcast.net> typed:
>> On May 3, 11:19 am, "Gerard" <g_nospam-hendrik...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> Bob Harper <bob.har...@comcast.net> typed:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 5/3/13 6:28 AM, Gerard wrote:
>>>>> Bob Harper<bob.har...@comcast.net> typed:
>>>>>> On 5/2/13 5:15 AM, Terry wrote:
>>>>>>> On Thu, 2 May 2013 04:10:21 +1000, Matthew Silverstein wrote
>>>>>>> (in article<1gwxsapj82n3z.128f837o4b1dq....@40tude.net>):
>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 11:10:41 +1000, Terry wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>>> Goodman and the Hanover Band have recorded The
>>>>>>>>> Consecration of the House, Fidelio, Egmont and Leonore
>>>>>>>>> II.
>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jos Immerseel and Anima Eterna have recorded Coriolan,
>>>>>>>>> Egmont Overture and the Ruins of Athens.
>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bruggen and Orchestra of the 18th Century have recorded
>>>>>>>>> Coriolan and Egmont,
>>>>>>>>> as have Hogwood and the Academy of Ancient Music.
>>>
>>>>>>>>> Romantique Gardiner have recorded Coriolan Overture.
>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks. My post mentioned several of those. No HIP
>>>>>>>> recordings of Leonore III? Too bad.
>>>
>>>>>>>> Matty
>>>
>>>>>>> Unless you count Zinman in Zurich. Modern instruments, but
>>>>>>> otherwise takes into account many of the HIP factors.
>>>
>>>>>> And Zinman uses period brass and tympani, so he should
>>>>>> certainly be counted, IMO.
>>>
>>>>>> Bob Harper
>>>
>>>>> But Harnoncourt should not be counted?
>>>
>>>> Um, I was seconding Zinman, not commenting on Harnoncourt.
>>>
>>>> Bob Harper
>>>
>>> I did see that.
>>> I had a question, you didn't answer
>>
>> Why should he answer it?
>>
>> Bill
>
> Why do you ask if you don't know why people answer questions?
> What about this being a newsgroup about recordings of classical music?
> You've never seen that people are willing to answer questions in newsgroups?
> Such behaviour was very usual.
But surely it's understood there's no compulsion! It's only a newsgroup,
>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks. My post mentioned several of those. No HIP
>>>>>>>> recordings of Leonore III? Too bad.
>>>
>>>>>>>> Matty
>>>
>>>>>>> Unless you count Zinman in Zurich. Modern instruments, but
>>>>>>> otherwise takes into account many of the HIP factors.
>>>
>>>>>> And Zinman uses period brass and tympani, so he should
>>>>>> certainly be counted, IMO.
>>>
>>>>>> Bob Harper
>>>
>>>>> But Harnoncourt should not be counted?
>>>
>>>> Um, I was seconding Zinman, not commenting on Harnoncourt.
>>>
>>>> Bob Harper
>>>
>>> I did see that.
>>> I had a question, you didn't answer
>>
>> Why should he answer it?
>>
>> Bill
>
> Why do you ask if you don't know why people answer questions?
> What about this being a newsgroup about recordings of classical music?
> You've never seen that people are willing to answer questions in newsgroups?
> Such behaviour was very usual.
not the bloody Spanish Inquisition. Nobody expects that! (cue).
--
Cheers! Terry.
Terry
May 5, 2013, 5:46:17 AM5/5/13
to
"Gerard" <g_nospam-...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Terry <bo...@clown.invalid> typed:
>> On Thu, 2 May 2013 04:10:21 +1000, Matthew Silverstein wrote
>> (in article <1gwxsapj82n3z.1...@40tude.net>):
>>
>>> On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 11:10:41 +1000, Terry wrote:
>>>
>>>> Goodman and the Hanover Band have recorded The Consecration of
>>>> the House, Fidelio, Egmont and Leonore II.
>>>>
>>>> Jos Immerseel and Anima Eterna have recorded Coriolan, Egmont
>>>> Overture and the Ruins of Athens.
>>>>
>>>> Bruggen and Orchestra of the 18th Century have recorded Coriolan
>>>> and Egmont,
>>>> as have Hogwood and the Academy of Ancient Music.
>>>>
>>>> John Eliot and the Orchestre Révolutionnaire et Romantique
> Terry <bo...@clown.invalid> typed:
>> On Thu, 2 May 2013 04:10:21 +1000, Matthew Silverstein wrote
>> (in article <1gwxsapj82n3z.1...@40tude.net>):
>>
>>> On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 11:10:41 +1000, Terry wrote:
>>>
>>>> Goodman and the Hanover Band have recorded The Consecration of
>>>> the House, Fidelio, Egmont and Leonore II.
>>>>
>>>> Jos Immerseel and Anima Eterna have recorded Coriolan, Egmont
>>>> Overture and the Ruins of Athens.
>>>>
>>>> Bruggen and Orchestra of the 18th Century have recorded Coriolan
>>>> and Egmont,
>>>> as have Hogwood and the Academy of Ancient Music.
>>>>
>>>> Gardiner have recorded Coriolan Overture.
>>>
>>> Thanks. My post mentioned several of those. No HIP recordings of
>>> Leonore III? Too bad.
>>>
>>> Matty
>>
>> Unless you count Zinman in Zurich. Modern instruments, but otherwise
>> takes into account many of the HIP factors.
>
> So why not count Harnoncourt in?
> He recorded all above mentioned overtures, excepted Die Weihe des Hauses.
> All on a single CD.
Fair enough. Why not indeed?
>>>
>>> Thanks. My post mentioned several of those. No HIP recordings of
>>> Leonore III? Too bad.
>>>
>>> Matty
>>
>> Unless you count Zinman in Zurich. Modern instruments, but otherwise
>> takes into account many of the HIP factors.
>
> So why not count Harnoncourt in?
> He recorded all above mentioned overtures, excepted Die Weihe des Hauses.
> All on a single CD.
--
Cheers! Terry.
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