Markevich Tchaikovsky Symphonies (Newton Classics)
Christopher Webber
I've had to send my 4-CD set back to Amazon, due to a frustrating
mastering fault. Each and every one of the discs contained - at
differing points - a 1/2 second break where the music had been erased
(so I couldn't even re-edit and join up the sound.)
Now I'm not saying that *every* set will have this fault; but clearly
one batch sent to the UK from Holland at least is affected, and I don't
suppose Newton have a massive batch run.
A great pity, because the performances are every bit as individual,
vibrant and emotionally varied as I'd hoped from Markevich. Some
eccentric rubati, but a very good set indeed. A shame.
--
___________________________
Christopher Webber, Blackheath, London, UK.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Webber
http://www.zarzuela.net
pianomaven
wrote:
> A warning for the curious:
>
> I've had to send my 4-CD set back to Amazon, due to a frustrating
> mastering fault. Each and every one of the discs contained - at
> differing points - a 1/2 second break where the music had been erased
> (so I couldn't even re-edit and join up the sound.)
>
> Now I'm not saying that *every* set will have this fault; but clearly
> one batch sent to the UK from Holland at least is affected, and I don't
> suppose Newton have a massive batch run.
>
> A great pity, because the performances are every bit as individual,
> vibrant and emotionally varied as I'd hoped from Markevich. Some
> eccentric rubati, but a very good set indeed. A shame.
This set was taken from previous incarnations on Philips, one of which
I produced myself. Strange that they would have had pressing faults,
specially if they used CDs as masters.
TD
Christopher Webber
>This set was taken from previous incarnations on Philips, one of which
>I produced myself. Strange that they would have had pressing faults,
>specially if they used CDs as masters.
Yes - I suspect the mass pressing equipment is the villain. Really a
shame, for such a fine set.
ivanmaxim
Uh-oh if you produced it, the missing music is the least of the
problems. One would have to be sure its all Markevich!!!!! Remember
how you fouled up the GPOC series by having the wrong pianist in one
of the sets????? cavaet emptor!!!! Wagner fan
Steve de Mena
I would hope they would not use CDs as masters. Those could have
interpolated errors or uncorrectable errors. A CD should be used as a
last resort.
I notice that "Francesca da Rimini" is included in the DUO set of the
symphonies but not in the 4CD reissue and this Newton Classics
reissue. Used Like New copies of these are reasonably priced from US
Amazon marketplace sellers.
Steve
pianomaven
> On 2/9/11 7:27 AM, pianomaven wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 9, 10:16 am, Christopher Webber<c...@zarzuela.net.invalid>
> > wrote:
> >> A warning for the curious:
>
> >> I've had to send my 4-CD set back to Amazon, due to a frustrating
> >> mastering fault. Each and every one of the discs contained - at
> >> differing points - a 1/2 second break where the music had been erased
> >> (so I couldn't even re-edit and join up the sound.)
>
> >> Now I'm not saying that *every* set will have this fault; but clearly
> >> one batch sent to the UK from Holland at least is affected, and I don't
> >> suppose Newton have a massive batch run.
>
> >> A great pity, because the performances are every bit as individual,
> >> vibrant and emotionally varied as I'd hoped from Markevich. Some
> >> eccentric rubati, but a very good set indeed. A shame.
>
> > This set was taken from previous incarnations on Philips, one of which
> > I produced myself. Strange that they would have had pressing faults,
> > specially if they used CDs as masters.
>
> > TD
>
> I would hope they would not use CDs as masters. Those could have
> interpolated errors or uncorrectable errors. A CD should be used as a
> last resort.
Perhaps.
But WCF used to say that the closest thing to her mastertape was, in
fact, a finished CD.
I never quizzed her on this claim, but I figure she had her reasons to
make it.
> I notice that "Francesca da Rimini" is included in the DUO set of the
> symphonies but not in the 4CD reissue and this Newton Classics
> reissue. Used Like New copies of these are reasonably priced from US
> Amazon marketplace sellers.
Which may suggest that new masters were cut, at least of this
particular CD. So, the fault will be in the pressing plant.
TD
MickeyBoy
wrote:
I'm curious about Markevitch's Beethoven, the performances he
conducted and the edition of the symphonies he was working on at the
end of his life. (He didn't finish it.) In addition to a thoroughly
investigated score, he added "historical, analytical, and practical
studies." This edition is very scarce in US libraries.
Any comments?
ivanmaxim
>
> - Show quoted text -
His Verdi Requiem was my first and stil one of favorites, though the
live performance which preceded the studio (available on Opera share)
is even more dramatic. Wagner fan
Bob Harper
#5 is split over two discs. Now the Newton set--4 CDs--splits #s 2 *and*
5 and gives us *less* music than the Duos (no 'Francesca'). Harrumph.
Bob Harper
mark
The engineers at JVC preferred using CDs as masters, at least they did
when I ran both BMG and MHS. They agreed with WCF in that respect. I
don't know why people believe that a 1630 master will have fewer
errors than a CD when the opposite was often the case.
Ultimately, it comes down to quality control in the mastering process.
The people at JVC were real sticklers for this. They made sure every
master they produced was in good shape. You'd be amazed at the
corrections that can be made - and the disasters that can be avoided -
if one bothers listening to a master before sending it off to press
the CDs.
jrsnfld
I'm interested to know what Markevitch did in his edition that would
be considered remarkable or unusual. Perhaps you know? What are the
studies you are referring to?
Examples of his conducting Beethoven are not too hard to find. They're
good recordings.
--Jeff
Sava Savanovic
release of Markevitch Tchaikovsky.
Amazon.uk site lists only Symphonies and just the LSO on the cover:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tchaikovsky-Symphonies-London-Symphony-Orchestra/dp/B004AB2F4E
While prestoclassical lists the Symphonies and the Francesca da Rimini
and has both LSO and New Philharmonia on the cover:
http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Newton%2BClassics/8802036
same with europadisc.uk
http://www.europadisc.co.uk/classical/93453/Tchaikovsky_-_Complete_Symphonies.htm
are there two batches?
Paul Goldstein
jrsnfld says...
>Examples of [Markevitch] conducting Beethoven are not too hard to find. They're
>good recordings.
The 5th with the Lamoureux O is more than good. Has a better recording of a
Beethoven symphony by a French orchestra ever been made? I can't think of one.
Kerrison
> There is definitely something strange with this Newton Classics
> release of Markevitch Tchaikovsky.
>
>
> While prestoclassical lists the Symphonies and the Francesca da Rimini
> and has both LSO and New Philharmonia on the cover:http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Newton%2BClassics/8802036
>
>
> are there two batches?
Newston's own website is no help either ... it says "Newton Classics
Release Details" and then proceeds to give none whatsoever ...
jrsnfld
> In article <2d55b270-ad97-4fbe-a31c-cc47d5644...@y35g2000prc.googlegroups.com>,
I'm very partial to Schuricht's cycle (and also Masur's recent live
cycles with ONF), but I haven't compared straight up. I might like
Markevitch more in the 5th. But the real question is, how many
recordings of Beethoven symphonies are there with French orchestras?
The competition maybe good, but not numerous.
--Jeff
Christopher Webber
>Newston's own website is no help either ... it says "Newton Classics
>Release Details" and then proceeds to give none whatsoever ...
No. I mailed them, and have had no reply. That's why I sent the set back
to Amazon. They need to get their act together, if the website's
anything to go by.
--
___________________________
Gerard
> Kerrison <kerrison1...@yahoo.co.uk> writes:
> > Newston's own website is no help either ... it says "Newton Classics
> > Release Details" and then proceeds to give none whatsoever ...
>
> No. I mailed them, and have had no reply. That's why I sent the set
> back to Amazon. They need to get their act together, if the website's
> anything to go by.
This seems weird.
The picture on the site of Newton Classics mentions 2 orchestras, like the item
on the site of PrestoClassical and Europadisc - both with Francesca da Rimini of
course.
Also on MDT:
http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//8802036.htm
But at Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/Tchaikovsky-Symphonies-London-Symphony-Orchestra/dp/B004AB2F4E
and here
http://www.bol.com/nl/p/muziek/complete-symphonies/1000004010963927/index.html
and here
http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Peter-Iljitsch-Tschaikowsky-Symphonien-Nr-1-6/hnum/4970683
there is another issue with only one orchestra, and so without Francesca.
Weird label.
pianomaven
Yes, I agree, Bob. That split caused me many hesitations. But the Duo
Series was above all "value for money", so extra music was part of the
equation from the beginning. It is a pity that they have eliminated
this "extra", but that always pushed the music to the edge of a CDs
capacities (at the time; today, 83 minutes seems quite possible) and
they probably don't want to have to deal with rejects in the factory.
In the end they will have to deal with this fault. So, you can't win.
TD
pianomaven
Philips always kept CD copies of every CD manufactured and this proved
to be a wise decision as some of the early 1630 masters ended up with
defects over time and they needed those CDs to produce a corrected
master for production of later CDs.
TD
td
> In article <2d55b270-ad97-4fbe-a31c-cc47d5644...@y35g2000prc.googlegroups.com>,
One has to wonder where this prejudice against French orchestras
originates. From actual experience? Gossip? Some American critical
opinion which has become widespread?
In any case it is without any foundation.
Similar prejudices against American orchestras (brilliant, shallow,
mechanical) are also quite silly.
TD
Edward Cowan
early CD set? One feature that brought a lot of comment in the earliest
years of the CD (1983-1993) was the existence of "mutes" in the
published discs. Does anyone here remember "mutes"? These were little
silent breaks in the continuity of playback, regarded at the time as a
flaw in CD production...
FWIW, I have encountered a few CD's in my collection, dating from that
period, which my current CD player (McIntosh MCD 205) cannot read.
Usually they still play in my BD player (Panasonic BDP 09FD), as do a
few of the "bronzed" CD's from Pearl. --E.A.C.
Christopher Webber <c...@zarzuela.net.invalid> wrote:
> A warning for the curious:
>
> I've had to send my 4-CD set back to Amazon, due to a frustrating
> mastering fault. Each and every one of the discs contained - at
> differing points - a 1/2 second break where the music had been erased
> (so I couldn't even re-edit and join up the sound.)
>
> Now I'm not saying that *every* set will have this fault; but clearly
> one batch sent to the UK from Holland at least is affected, and I don't
> suppose Newton have a massive batch run.
>
> A great pity, because the performances are every bit as individual,
> vibrant and emotionally varied as I'd hoped from Markevich. Some
> eccentric rubati, but a very good set indeed. A shame.
--
hrabanus
Gerard
> Perhaps the CD set to which you refer could have been a reissue of an
> early CD set? One feature that brought a lot of comment in the
> earliest years of the CD (1983-1993) was the existence of "mutes" in
> the published discs. Does anyone here remember "mutes"? These were
> little silent breaks in the continuity of playback, regarded at the
> time as a flaw in CD production...
I don't think that this is the case here.
The earlier CD set was made by Philips and was a very well known set, acquired
by many. Nobody complained about "mutes".
td
> Edward Cowan wrote:
> > Perhaps the CD set to which you refer could have been a reissue of an
> > early CD set? One feature that brought a lot of comment in the
> > earliest years of the CD (1983-1993) was the existence of "mutes" in
> > the published discs. Does anyone here remember "mutes"? These were
> > little silent breaks in the continuity of playback, regarded at the
> > time as a flaw in CD production...
>
> I don't think that this is the case here.
> The earlier CD set was made by Philips and was a very well known set, acquired
> by many. Nobody complained about "mutes".
And there were none. I have both the original set AND the Duo Series
volumes.
Clearly this is a Newton Classics manufacturing problem, which,
knowing Theo Lap, will be solved smartly.
TD
ivanmaxim
If Theo Lap knew you he wouldn't admit it!!! Wagner fan
Terry
I see no prejudice. Quite the opposite, in fact.
--
Cheers, Terry
td
What a jerk.
I worked with TL for years when he was at DG. Indeed, he was
instrumental in getting the GPE started.
You should concentrate on your sucking, Dickey.
You are totally out of your depth here.
TD
td
MickeyBoy
HI Jeff,
No, I don't know. His edition of Beethoven (Peters) includes detailed
notes and analyses of the symphonies, besides a score scrupulously
reviewed in light of manuscripts. I first came across this in a book
about Max Rudolf in which he says he just bought Markevitch's edition
of Beethoven. I'm rather curious about what a non-academic and active
conductor and composer would find in the symphonies.
Dave Cook
> The engineers at JVC preferred using CDs as masters, at least they did
I'm surprised. Redbook CD is not a very reliable data source.
Dave Cook
td
> On 2011-02-09, mark <markstenr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > The engineers at JVC preferred using CDs as masters, at least they did
>
> I'm surprised. Redbook CD is not a very reliable data source.
Too bad WCF is not here. She would tell you that you're wrong.
TD
Russ (not Martha)
> Perhaps the CD set to which you refer could have been a reissue of an
> early CD set? One feature that brought a lot of comment in the earliest
> years of the CD (1983-1993) was the existence of "mutes" in the
> published discs. Does anyone here remember "mutes"? These were little
> silent breaks in the continuity of playback, regarded at the time as a
> flaw in CD production...
>
Many years ago I had a copy of Strauss Ein Heldenleben & Macbeth /
Kempe / Dresden SKO (EMI CDM7 69171-2) in which the >>>entire<<< track
containing 'The Hero's Works of Peace' went mute. Everything popped
back to normal in the following track. The defect showed up only when
the CD was played on certain models of Sony players. Never got an
explanation I could understand.
Russ (not Martha)
Johannes Roehl
> On Feb 9, 5:07 pm, oldgerman...@nospam.com (Edward Cowan) wrote:
>> Perhaps the CD set to which you refer could have been a reissue of an
>> early CD set? One feature that brought a lot of comment in the earliest
>> years of the CD (1983-1993) was the existence of "mutes" in the
>> published discs. Does anyone here remember "mutes"? These were little
>> silent breaks in the continuity of playback, regarded at the time as a
>> flaw in CD production...
>>
>
> Kempe / Dresden SKO (EMI CDM7 69171-2) in which the>>>entire<<< track
> containing 'The Hero's Works of Peace' went mute. Everything popped
> back to normal in the following track. The defect showed up only when
> the CD was played on certain models of Sony players. Never got an
> explanation I could understand.
Crazy technology...
FWIW I never experienced "mutes" like that and do not think they were
common back then (I started collecting in '88).
I have the Markevich, including Francesca, in a larger box that also
contains the piano concertos with Haas, Manfred and some fillers (cond.
Haitink). I do not remember any problems with these and checked the
first disc last night again, it played fine.
There are also an earlier (mono) Francesca and symphony #6 on DGG,
included in the Masters Box dedicated to Markevich.
Johannes
Christopher Howell
> Christopher Webber wrote:
> > Kerrison <kerrison126-spar...@yahoo.co.uk> writes:
> > > Newston's own website is no help either ... it says "Newton Classics
> > > Release Details" and then proceeds to give none whatsoever ...
>
> > No. I mailed them, and have had no reply. That's why I sent the set
> > back to Amazon. They need to get their act together, if the website's
> > anything to go by.
>
> This seems weird.
> The picture on the site of Newton Classics mentions 2 orchestras, like the item
> on the site of PrestoClassical and Europadisc - both with Francesca da Rimini of
> course.
> Also on MDT:http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//8802036.htm
>
> and herehttp://www.bol.com/nl/p/muziek/complete-symphonies/1000004010963927/i...
> and herehttp://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Peter-Iljitsch-Tschaikow...
>
> there is another issue with only one orchestra, and so without Francesca.
> Weird label.
I can clarify a little, I saw the (or "a") Newton set in a shop today
and it had the symphonies with no extra pieces and all with the LSO
I can also say from my LP collection that Markevich recorded the 6
symphonies plus a terrific Manfred all with the LSO
A slightly later LP had Francesca on one side and I forget what on the
other and this time the New Philharmonia was used
So any set which included Francesca should name both orchestras
Chris Howell
td
Well, yes, unless they simply wanted to save space on the cover,
Chris. The bottom inlay card should, however, reveal all the forces
used.
TD
Kerrison
>
> - Show quoted text -
Why should they "want to save space on the cover" by showing only one
orchestra, when the illustration via this link clearly indicates
there's room to show both, which is precisely what it does? ...
http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Newton%2BClassics/8802036
http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Newton%2BClassics/8802036
Gerard
Sure. I suppose it was known that Francesca was recorded with another orchestra.
But is there any explanation for the 2 different issues: one box with the
symphonies only, and another box with the same symphonies AND Francesca?
Sol L. Siegel
@mid.individual.net:
> I have the Markevich, including Francesca, in a larger box that also
> contains the piano concertos with Haas, Manfred and some fillers (cond.
> Haitink). I do not remember any problems with these and checked the
> first disc last night again, it played fine.
> There are also an earlier (mono) Francesca and symphony #6 on DGG,
> included in the Masters Box dedicated to Markevich.
I think I've mentioned before that Philips reissued the stereo
Francesca three times: twice in Duos (with Symphonies 1-3 and
in a set of tone poems devoted largely to lesser-known ones
with Inbal) and on a single-disc issue of the 5th. I still
have the 5th and the tone-poem set. No problems with either,
BTW.
- Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA USA