Boston Globe: Naxos announces "American initiative"
Mr. Mike
[Dunno if someone already posted this...]
CLASSICAL NOTES
Naxos takes on America with new series
By Richard Dyer, Globe Staff, 07/03/98
Ten years ago Klaus Heymann began to upset the apple cart of the star-driven
classical record business. In creating the Naxos label, he proved that it is
still possible to make good records and sell them at budget prices in
sufficient numbers to keep making more. While the big companies were still
competing against themselves, even internally, by constantly rerecording the
standard repertory, Heymann, Naxos, and its sister label, Marco Polo, set
off to record the whole literature of music. Heymann's company is
repertory-driven.
In a visit to Boston a week ago, Heymann was eager to talk about Naxos's
forthcoming American music initiative, which begins with an initial schedule
of 200 CDs; more than 25 of them have already been recorded, and the plan is
to issue about 20 discs a year - a figure that, Heymann says, '' puts us for
this one project just behind the full recording schedule of Polygram - on
all three of its labels: London, Philips, and Deutsche Grammophon!''
Heymann is humorously unsympathetic to the executives of the major record
companies who are stewing in their own juices, and quite sharp-tongued about
efforts to beat him at his own game, like BMG's Arte Nova label. ''Arte Nove
has a great record, Michael Gielen's recording of Zemlinsky's `Lyric
Symphony,' but have you heard those operas? ''
The American music project follows up on the success of some Naxos ventures
in other countries. ''A record of Swedish orchestral favorites sold 50,000
copies in Sweden,'' Heymann says, ''and that record put us on the map in
that country. We have done the same thing in Finland and in Norway. I think
Naxos still has a lack of profile in the States, and some of the major
newspapers write about the record industry with no awareness of what we are
doing. I'm hoping this project will help change that.''
The initial repertory list includes projects that ought to have been
undertaken by someone years ago, like the complete symphonies of Roger
Sessions (9) and Roy Harris (13). The series will explore neglected masters
of the more distant past; Naxos will record the Second and Third Symphonies
of George Whitefield Chadwick (who served for decades as president of the
New England Conservatory), as well as four CDs of the symphonies and suites
by Florence Price (1888-1953), the first African-American woman to write
symphonic works. There are some curiosities on the list as well, including a
disc of works by Louis Scarmolin (the composer who was an inspiration for
the film ''Mr. Holland's Opus'') and a record of two symphonies by Meredith
Willson, who is best known as the composer of ''The Music Man.'' Many
records promise to be of special interest to New England listeners,
including a disc (already recorded) of the two violin concertos by Walter
Piston, featuring violinist James Oliver Buswell, who teaches at NEC.
Most of the orchestral recordings will be made abroad because American
orchestras have priced themselves out of the market.
''It costs at least $70,000 to $80,000 to record an orchestral CD in
America,'' says Heymann. ''That is too much - you cannot expect to make it
back.'' Buswell's Piston record was therefore recorded with the Ukrainian
State Symphony Orchestra. Heymann hopes this situation will change. ''We
have had approaches from American orchestras that are interested in working
out something with us, but in addition to the economic problem, none of them
can do a special project quickly - naturally, they want to program the works
they are going to record into their seasonal schedule, which is set long in
advance.''
Heymann says the project is ''beginning on the fringes'' and will
deliberately avoid the most standard American works to start with. ''We
don't want to do Bernstein and Copland, at least right away; we can't
compete with their own recordings, which are now at budget price on other
labels.'' But the project does include several items likely to have popular
appeal, including the complete band and orchestral music of John Philip
Sousa and three volumes of Victor Herbert.
In addition to the American project, Naxos has embarked on several other
ambitious endeavors. Its historical series, most drawn from meticulously
mastered Met broadcasts from 50 years ago and more, is off to a strong
start - ''Don Giovanni'' (with Ezio Pinza, conducted by Bruno Walter) and
''Tristan und Isolde'' (with Helen Traubel and Lauritz Melchior) have sold
more than 10,000 copies apiece, even though the discs are not available in
the United States because of legal issues. Naxos Audiobooks has started to
record the complete Shakespeare for the first time in more than 30 years
(''Hamlet,'' ''Romeo and Juliet,'' and ''A Midsummer Night's Dream'' have
been released); in Germany, Naxos has started an audiobook project recording
literary classics in that language. Twenty-five records in its complete
Liszt piano music series have been recorded. And Naxos has built up a loyal
following for its recordings of guitar music and organ music.
Naxos is always alert to gaps in the recorded repertory. Heymann, who
recorded the complete orchestral works of the Strauss family, now has his
eye on the unrecorded operettas of Johann Strauss Jr., more than a dozen of
them.
The label reached peak production (or, as Heymann puts it, ''our worst
excess'') in 1996 with 300 releases; now, the company has cut back to about
150 CDs a year so that it can exert more control. Even so, Naxos and Marco
Polo have a backlog of about 550 unreleased recordings. Some of Naxos's
first recordings have now been replaced (''We are aware of the weaknesses of
some of our early catalog,'' Heymann forthrightly admits), but the company
still tries to avoid duplicating its own efforts. ''Some records we will
never delete, even if we do record the same repertory again; we've done all
the Rachmaninoff piano concertos with the pianist Bernd Glemser, but I will
never delete Jeno Jando's recording of the Second - that's a classic that
has sold more than 400,000 copies.''
Naxos has invested more heavily in educational efforts than some of its
major competitors and is also making an effort to reach audiences that go to
concerts. ''Lots more people go to concerts than buy records. In Auckland,
New Zealand, 100,000 go to a free outdoor concert - and we don't sell
100,000 records a year in New Zealand yet. I want to change that.''
The 1998 University of Louisville Grawemeyer Award for musical composition
has gone to the opera ''Marco Polo'' by Tan Dun, a work that was presented
by the New York City Opera last season and recorded by Sony Classical. This
year 187 works from composers in 32 countries were submitted for the
prestigious prize.
The Marlboro Festival in Vermont announces its 48th season of concerts,
which run July 18 to Aug. 16. The famous school, founded by Adolf Busch,
Marcel Moyse, and Rudolf Serkin, is now under the direction of an artistic
committee of three notable pianists: Richard Goode, Andras Schiff, and
Mitsuko Uchida. The festival presents concerts Saturday nights and Sunday
afernoons, as well as two Fridays (July 24 and Aug. 14), and the repertory
is drawn from works musicians at Marlboro have been preparing that they
consider ready for public display. Boston-based performers this summer
include mezzo-soprano Mary Westbrook-Geha and baritone Vincent Dion
Stringer.
This story ran on page D16 of the Boston Globe on 07/03/98.
Copyright 1998 Globe Newspaper Company.
Rodney Bigence
Please let there be some of the as-yet unrecorded Persichetti works on their
list.
Steve
It's nice to know that RGB and I agree on something (Persichetti). As
far as the plans announced thus far, it's almost too good to be true.
If they have 10 years of releases already in the can, now I have to
start worrying about my mortality. I don't want to die before all this
stuff is released.
Steve Wolk
Rodney Bigence
Steve wrote in message <359D42...@erols.com>...
>It's nice to know that RGB and I agree on something (Persichetti).
Yes, it is.
If Naxos is going to extend its definition of American composers to include
_naturalized_ Americans, I would hope they would also pick up on someone
like Vaclav Nelhybel, and all the other wind ensemble composers beyond
Sousa.
>As
>far as the plans announced thus far, it's almost too good to be true.
>If they have 10 years of releases already in the can, now I have to
>start worrying about my mortality. I don't want to die before all this
>stuff is released.
I think we're actually talking around the year 2010 for the end of the
project. I can just see myself coming out of the music store with the final
batch of releases, then suddenly clutching my chest and dropping dead to the
sidewalk before I have a chance to hear them.
Steve
It appears that, with the exception of green markered cd's, Rodney
and I have much in common. It's been many a moon since I've heard any
Vaclav
Nelhybel on very old Serenus LP's and I think tonight I will reacquaint
myself with this music. And I heartily second Rodney's endorsement of
music by composers for wind ensemble.
I hope the Victor Herbert recordings will include "Naughty Marietta"
and "Babes in Toyland". Herbert is a composer much under-represented on
recordings. Anyone who hasn't heard Beverly Sills sing "Art is Calling
for Me" (I Want to Be a Prima Donna) on an EMI CD of 1975 vintage is in
for a real treat.
For the umpteenth time, I'll plead with Naxos to re-record the music
released on LP back in the 60's by the Society for the Preservation of
the American Musical Heritage.
What treasures were here (at $6/record, postage paid). Composers
represented included
William Henry Fry, George Bristow, John Knowles Paine, Arthur Foote,
George T. Strong,
George W. Chadwick, Arthur Bird, Horatio Parker, Henry K. Hadley, Louis
Coerne, and more. They are among my most treasured LP's.
Steve Wolk
Peter
> Ten years ago Klaus Heymann began to upset the apple cart of the star-driven
> classical record business. In creating the Naxos label, he proved that it is
> still possible to make good records and sell them at budget prices in
> sufficient numbers to keep making more. While the big companies were still
> competing against themselves, even internally, by constantly rerecording the
> standard repertory, Heymann, Naxos, and its sister label, Marco Polo, set
> off to record the whole literature of music. Heymann's company is
> repertory-driven.
I still wonder when we will see, i.e. hear, the first Naxos "Ring"?
Matthew B. Tepper
In article <359DD4...@ix.netcom.com>, p_ul...@ix.netcom.com spake
unto the unwashed masses:
>
>> Ten years ago Klaus Heymann began to upset the apple cart of the
>> star-driven classical record business. In creating the Naxos label,
>> he proved that it is still possible to make good records and sell
>> them at budget prices in sufficient numbers to keep making more.
>> While the big companies were still competing against themselves,
>> even internally, by constantly rerecording the standard repertory,
>> Heymann, Naxos, and its sister label, Marco Polo, set off to record
>> the whole literature of music. Heymann's company is
>> repertory-driven.
>
The good news is that we will finally have a complete Dohnanyi _Ring_.
The bad news is that it will be conducted by *Oliver* Dohnanyi.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://www.deltanet.com/~ducky/index.htm
My main music page --- http://www.deltanet.com/~ducky/berlioz.htm
And my science fiction club's home page --- http://www.lasfs.org/
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
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Rodney Bigence
Steve wrote in message <359DB5...@erols.com>...
> It appears that, with the exception of green markered cd's, Rodney
>and I have much in common. It's been many a moon since I've heard any
>Vaclav
>Nelhybel on very old Serenus LP's and I think tonight I will reacquaint
>myself with this music.
Was Serenus the label that also first recorded Nicolas Flagello's music?
As regards Vaclav Nelhybel, there's also that wild recording of his TRITTICO
on the Reference Recordings label, conducted by Frederick Fennell. Just
wonderful.
I'm actually in the odd position of having _played_ more Nelhybel than I've
otherwise heard, be it live performance or recording. There was a fantastic
piece whose name has slipped from my memory, that my high school band
played -- a real showpiece. And the woodwind quintet in which I played
bassoon back then used to bash away at a set of short pieces by Nelhybel; I
remember the first piece was a very rapid, uninterrupted melody with all the
parts in perfect parallel to each other.
>And I heartily second Rodney's endorsement of
>music by composers for wind ensemble.
I'd actually give a lot for some recordings of the music of -- wait for
it -- Clare Grundman. I _know_ Grundman was far from being a "great"
composer, but at the same time, it was hard for anybody to get through their
high school band days without encountering _some_ music by him. I really
can't hear the "What shall we do with a drunken sailor?" melody in my head
without hearing it from Grundman's OVERTURE ON AMERICAN SAILING SONGS (I
believe that's close to the correct title).
> I hope the Victor Herbert recordings will include "Naughty Marietta"
>and "Babes in Toyland". Herbert is a composer much under-represented on
>recordings. Anyone who hasn't heard Beverly Sills sing "Art is Calling
>for Me" (I Want to Be a Prima Donna) on an EMI CD of 1975 vintage is in
>for a real treat.
Indeed. There's also that wonderful "Up in Central Park" CD with Sills and
Sherrill Milnes, with Herbert's "Sweethearts," "'Neath the Southern Moon,"
"Thine Alone," and "It Never, Never Can Be Love" on it. What bliss.
> For the umpteenth time, I'll plead with Naxos to re-record the music
>released on LP back in the 60's by the Society for the Preservation of
>the American Musical Heritage.
>What treasures were here (at $6/record, postage paid). Composers
>represented included
>William Henry Fry, George Bristow, John Knowles Paine, Arthur Foote,
>George T. Strong,
>George W. Chadwick, Arthur Bird, Horatio Parker, Henry K. Hadley, Louis
>Coerne, and more.
I'll sign that petition.
Simon Roberts
Matthew B. Tepper (ducky兀deltanet.com) wrote:
: In article <359DD4...@ix.netcom.com>, p_ul...@ix.netcom.com spake
: unto the unwashed masses:
: >
: >> Ten years ago Klaus Heymann began to upset the apple cart of the
: >> he proved that it is still possible to make good records and sell
: >> them at budget prices in sufficient numbers to keep making more.
: >> While the big companies were still competing against themselves,
: >> even internally, by constantly rerecording the standard repertory,
: >> Heymann, Naxos, and its sister label, Marco Polo, set off to record
: >> the whole literature of music. Heymann's company is
: >> repertory-driven.
: >I still wonder when we will see, i.e. hear, the first Naxos "Ring"?
: The good news is that we will finally have a complete Dohnanyi _Ring_.
: The bad news is that it will be conducted by *Oliver* Dohnanyi.
That wouldn't be bad news.
Simon
Tony Duggan
Peter wrote:
>
> I still wonder when we will see, i.e. hear, the first Naxos "Ring"?
Sometime next year, I believe. Recorded by "one of the German houses."
--
Tony Duggan
Staffordshire,
United Kingdom.
scri...@dial.pipex.com
Donald Patterson
Rodney Bigence wrote:
>
> As regards Vaclav Nelhybel, there's also that wild recording of his TRITTICO
> on the Reference Recordings label, conducted by Frederick Fennell. Just
> wonderful.
Incredible!
>
> I'm actually in the odd position of having _played_ more Nelhybel than I've
> otherwise heard, be it live performance or recording. There was a fantastic
> piece whose name has slipped from my memory, that my high school band
> played -- a real showpiece.
"Symphonic Movement"? "Prelude and Fugue"? Both are great pieces.
"Festivo"? Junior High fare. More like Trittico light.
>
> >And I heartily second Rodney's endorsement of
> >music by composers for wind ensemble.
Me too. Bring it on. Could give the Corporon series some competition.
>
> I'd actually give a lot for some recordings of the music of -- wait for
> it -- Clare Grundman. I _know_ Grundman was far from being a "great"
> composer, but at the same time, it was hard for anybody to get through their
> high school band days without encountering _some_ music by him. I really
> can't hear the "What shall we do with a drunken sailor?" melody in my head
> without hearing it from Grundman's OVERTURE ON AMERICAN SAILING SONGS (I
> believe that's close to the correct title).
"Rhapsody on Old American Sailing Songs" I believe.
--
Don (former JH and HS band director)
)**********************************************(
)* Don Patterson *(
)* Asst. Principal Trombonist *(
)* "The President's Own" *(
)* United States Marine Band *(
)* don...@erols.com *(
)**********************************************(
http://www.marineband.hqmc.usmc.mil
)**********************************************(
)* DCP Music Printing *(
)* Professional Computer Music Typeset *(
)* Music Arrangements *(
)* don...@erols.com *(
)**********************************************(
The views expressed are my own and in no way
reflect those of "The President's Own" United
States Marine Band or the United States Marine Corps.
Alan Swindells
In article <6nlrd4$djs$2...@news.islandnet.com>, dba...@camosun.bc.nospam.ca
(Deryk Barker) wrote, of a possible Naxos Ring:
> : Sometime next year, I believe. Recorded by "one of the German houses."
>
> Instead of singers and an orchestra? Isn't this taking economy too
> far? :-)
One of the events at the recent ISCM 'World Music Days' festival
in Manchester was a production by an Ambient Music group called
'The Sound of the Building' - in which the natural resonances of
the spaces inside were made to resonate, or to ring - it could be
them, then.
--
Regards: Alan * alan...@argonet.co.uk *
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...
Ralph Waldo Emerson
Mario Taboada
Serenus! What a blast from the past. It's good to know that, amidst the
flood of CDs, the cantankerous LP collector is alive and well.
By all means, somebody rescue the Serenus catalog. There's also lots of
excellent material from old Nonesuch LPs, especially modern music, that
remains unreissued. While we reminisce, does anyone remember Gold Crest
LPs? I recall some early recordings by Malcolm Bilson on that label
which never resurfaced as far as I know. They also recorded Earl Wild.
Regards,
Mario Taboada
Donald Patterson
Rodney Bigence wrote:
>
> Thanks for the link, which I immediately investigated and bookmarked. Any
> personal recommendations?
Any of the Corporon discs are very good. Not as visceral as
the old Eastman discs perhaps, but with much better sound and
ensemble (balance, tone, blend, etc.).
Any of the Dallas Wind Symphony discs conducted by
Fennell are excellent.
The Marine Band discs on Mark (various convention performances) are
good. :-) I am on only one...the Midwest 1993. A fantastic
band disc is the USMB at TMEA in 1991. A most incredible
Firebird Suite (Stravinsky/Knox), Le franc juge (Berlioz/Knox).
I was at that concert as a member of TMEA. It was there that
I learned of the impending opening for which I auditioned and
won.
>
> Am I correct in assuming that the Bernstein Candide Overture and Slava
> mentioned on a couple of the albums' track listings are actually the
> Grundman arrangements of those pieces?
Yes. I prefer the older Beeler arrangement of Candide, but with
the advent of the Grundman, Boosey and Hawkes seems to have withdrawn
all
copyright permission to perform and record the older version...
at least for profit. I assume that if a school somewhere has the
older arrangement, they can program it without threat of lawsuit.
>
> Thanks again.
--
Don
Steve
If you mean the label which specialized in recording music for bands,
that would be Golden Crest. Lots of good stuff there. Music by Piston,
Persichetti, Alfred Reed, Iannaccone, Tull, Claude Smith and Dello Joio,
among others.
Steve Wolk
Matthew B. Tepper
In article <na.a8ddcf4860....@argonet.co.uk>,
alan...@argonet.co.uk spake unto the unwashed masses:
>
>In article <6nlrd4$djs$2...@news.islandnet.com>,
>dba...@camosun.bc.nospam.ca (Deryk Barker) wrote, of a possible Naxos
>Ring:
>
>
>> : Sometime next year, I believe. Recorded by "one of the German
>> : houses."
>>
>> Instead of singers and an orchestra? Isn't this taking economy too
>> far? :-)
>
>One of the events at the recent ISCM 'World Music Days' festival
>in Manchester was a production by an Ambient Music group called
>'The Sound of the Building' - in which the natural resonances of
>the spaces inside were made to resonate, or to ring - it could be
>them, then.
Or how about Elliott Schwartz' "Elevator Music"? When I was an
undergrad at San Francisco State, the new music prof Herb Bielawa and I
tried to get one of the dorms to let us put this on, but it never
happened....
>--
>Regards: Alan * alan...@argonet.co.uk *
>
>A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...
> Ralph Waldo Emerson
--
Mario Taboada
<<Klaus Heymann, ladies and gentlemen, not the cheapest date in the
electronic sweatshop, but getting there.>>
Being a self-confessed cheap guy myself, I rather like Klaus. He has
picked some winners from among the underpaid, to the point of making
them stars (Jeno Jando, Maria Kliegel, Benjamin Frith), and brought back
superb musicians who were not recording (Christiane Edinger, Gyorgy
Pauk, Franco Rossi and the Bartholdys, Idil Biret, Tim Hugh and several
others).
What's your complaint, exactly? For example, American orchestras prevent
much small-ensemble repertoire from being heard by demanding that
everyone get paid, not just those who play. Imagine paying an entire
orchestra to perform Stravinsky's Octet, or his Histoire du Soldat,
or....it's insane. For another, the repertoire of most American
orchestras is pitifully straightlaced and anachronic.And what kind of
repertoire are the "major" labels exploring? Heymann has to watch his
purse (that's a given in business) but he is not screwing the public and
I don't think he is forcing anyone to record for him either. Between
Marco Polo and Naxos he has recorded a lot of interesting stuff, some of
it superb. On top of that, the stuff stays in print and sells! What a
disaster!
Regards,
Mario Taboada
Steve
Whatever Klaus pays them, it's more than what anyone is paying the
Philadelphia Orchestra (and others) these days.
Steve Wolk
Alrod wrote:
>
> >Most of the orchestral recordings will be made abroad because American
> >orchestras have priced themselves out of the market.
> >
> >''It costs at least $70,000 to $80,000 to record an orchestral CD in
> >America,'' says Heymann. ''That is too much - you cannot expect to make it
> >back.'' Buswell's Piston record was therefore recorded with the Ukrainian
> >State Symphony Orchestra.
>
> Yep, them residuals are pesky things. Better to give everybody $150,
> pat them on the head, send them home, and sell the results of their
> work for 40 years.
>
> Klaus Heymann, ladies and gentlemen, not the cheapest date in the
> electronic sweatshop, but getting there.
>
> BTW, have you seen
>
> http://members.tripod.com/~conductor_2/index.html
>
> Such a deal!
>
> Alrod
Alrod
>Most of the orchestral recordings will be made abroad because American
>orchestras have priced themselves out of the market.
>
>''It costs at least $70,000 to $80,000 to record an orchestral CD in
>America,'' says Heymann. ''That is too much - you cannot expect to make it
>back.'' Buswell's Piston record was therefore recorded with the Ukrainian
>State Symphony Orchestra.
Yep, them residuals are pesky things. Better to give everybody $150,
Steve Smith
All I've got to add to this sub-thread, as it's developed, is:
1. I enjoyed playing the music of Jared Spears in high school - very splashy
and cinematic.
2. I enjoyed playing the music of Warren Benson in college - very dramatic and
moving.
3. I also enjoyed playing music by Juan Orrego-Salas in college - very dramatic
and moving, and difficult as hell.
4. The one wind band recording of Karel Husa's "Music for Prague 1968" I have
on CD (Eastman / Hunsberger, CBS 44916) gets the notes right but is bloodless.
The tape I have of my college wind symphony playing it under the observation of
the composer misses some notes but is shattering emotionally (though I may be a
tad too close to it to be objective). This is one of the finest pieces of the
late 20th century. And I don't care half as much for it with strings.
5. If Naxos can record the music of the American wind symphony tradition and
successfully market it to band directors, band members and nostalgic former band
members, they might be looking at that gold mine Klaus H. envisions when he
talks about his best-sellers in other territories.
Hell, *I* get misty over silly things like "La Fiesta Mexicana" and "Rocky Point
Holiday." And, limited series by Corporon, Fennell, and the Tokyo Kosei Wind
Orchestra aside, this repertoire is largely untapped. What's the problem?
After all, the few of you who've promulgated this particular sub-thread have
convinced me I'm far from alone in this.
In sympathy with the poster who requested more Persichetti, I would point out
that he wrote one of the greatest wind symphonies. I'd also love a nice
recording of the Vittorio Gianinni wind symphony. And William Schuman's "George
Washington Bridge." And... and... and...
VIVA FISHER TULL!
Steve Smith
ssmi...@sprynet.com
Alrod
>What's your complaint, exactly? For example, American orchestras prevent
>much small-ensemble repertoire from being heard by demanding that
>everyone get paid, not just those who play.
To be exact, Herr Heymann pays no royalties, no residual payments. I
agree that some of the other AFM and AFTRA rules are controversial,
but just a session fee and fuck-you-buddy doesn't cut it in my book.
As long as he's making money on their work, they should get a cut,
however small. And that goes for the Ukrainian Starving Gesellschaft
der Musikfreunde, too. (P.S. He doesn't pay pension or health benefits
either.)
If you're nostalgic for Vox Boxes, great. Shelf after shelf to choose
from of indifferently conducted, not-very-well-played, adequately
engineered recordings - don't make it good, make it Thursday, not one
out of thousands a first choice ever.
OTOH, try to imagine how it feels as an artist to have work you did
twenty and thirty years ago still generating income for others, but
not for you.
Sidelight: TV rerun residuals. The Three Stooges sold their residual
rights to over 200 shorts back to the studio for a minimal lump sum in
the early 50s, just before the films were released to television. They
didn't get penny one for over 40 years of TV play. And at least one
cash-strapped actor on M*A*S*H sold his residual rights for a lump sum
one-twentieth of what he would have gotten otherwise in royalties.
Except mit Klaus, you don't get to choose. No residuals, no buyout
fees, just $150 for showing up, forever.
>Between
>Marco Polo and Naxos he has recorded a lot of interesting stuff, some of
>it superb.
You bet. He's done for classical recording what Nike has done for
running shoes. Maybe if he looks hard enough, he can find an offshore
orchestra that'll work for 20 cents an hour.
Alrod
Donald Patterson
>
> All I've got to add to this sub-thread, as it's developed, is:
>
> 1. I enjoyed playing the music of Jared Spears in high school - very splashy
> and cinematic.
...and repetitive, and redundant, and reitterative, and...
>
> 2. I enjoyed playing the music of Warren Benson in college - very dramatic and
> moving.
Mostly lacking in structure, but very colorful. Benson is best
as a colorist. Think of abstract art consisting of
swashes of color skillfully blended, creating no particular
image, but an emotional felling. That is what Benson does
for me.
>
> 4. The one wind band recording of Karel Husa's "Music for Prague 1968" I have
> on CD (Eastman / Hunsberger, CBS 44916) gets the notes right but is bloodless.
> The tape I have of my college wind symphony playing it under the observation of
> the composer misses some notes but is shattering emotionally (though I may be a
> tad too close to it to be objective). This is one of the finest pieces of the
> late 20th century. And I don't care half as much for it with strings.
I the college band the U. of Michigan conducted by Husa? On Golden
Crest.
A great LP. Wish it would turn up on CD, but don't hold your breath.
Speaking to the owner of Mark Records, I was informed that the Golden
Crest catalog was for sale, but at an astronomical price. Unrealistic
for any company interested in reissuing the band discs from that catalog
to realize a profit. The estate of Clark Galehouse is quite firm in
their price. All the while, the Ampex master tapes are deteriorating.
Many are probably already past rescue. Keep that tape. If you have
the old LP, it is a real keeper.
BTW, I think I like the Eastman performance a bit more than you do.
>
> 5. If Naxos can record the music of the American wind symphony tradition and
> successfully market it to band directors, band members and nostalgic former band
> members, they might be looking at that gold mine Klaus H. envisions when he
> talks about his best-sellers in other territories.
Yes. But I suggest he tap into the college band scene in this country
to do so. Some fine ensembles would take the fee for their music
departments and produce some fantastic discs.
>
> Hell, *I* get misty over silly things like "La Fiesta Mexicana" and "Rocky Point
> Holiday."
Well...not misty, but I certainly enjoy these works.
(Actually, I'm kinda sick of Fiesta. We have played umteen times
since I have been in the Marine Band. It was written on commission
for the Marine Band.)
> And, limited series by Corporon, Fennell, and the Tokyo Kosei Wind
> Orchestra aside, this repertoire is largely untapped. What's the problem?
One problem is that the Kosei discs are horribly over-priced in the
U.S. A Naxos series would solve that problem.
> In sympathy with the poster who requested more Persichetti, I would point out
> that he wrote one of the greatest wind symphonies. I'd also love a nice
> recording of the Vittorio Gianinni wind symphony. And William Schuman's "George
> Washington Bridge." And... and... and...
>
> VIVA FISHER TULL!
YES!!! I studied theory with Mickey. Much of his band music is
notable. Someone should put on disc in good sound. I was part
of a recording session in college devoted to his band music (ca.1980).
Unfortunately, Golden Crest used their new Soundstream digital system,
without knowing what to do with it, and produced the most distorted
sounded LP I have ever heard. Galehouse came to Sam Houston St U. and
set his microphones high up in the vaulted ceiling and way bakc from
the ensemble. The hall had a wonderfully warm resonance, being made
of wood and glass. All he pisked up, however, was distant reverb.
They tried to boost it in their studios, and the product was so
distorted that anything above a mezzoforte was pure static. ARGGGH!
...and the session went SO well. This was the second disc of Mickey's
music in that series. The earlier one was recorded at Sam Houston St.
by my brother (part of the SHSU recording crew) and the tape flown
to Crest studios for mastering. A much better tape.
Wendy and Jeremy Cohen
> 5. If Naxos can record the music of the American wind symphony tradition and
> successfully market it to band directors, band members and nostalgic former band
> members, they might be looking at that gold mine Klaus H. envisions when he
> talks about his best-sellers in other territories.
I think I posted this before but it might have just been an E mail..
I am a "band" person and own a ton of band/ wind ensemble cds.
Just about any band work you want to hear can be found in the Mark
Custom catatlog. They have all of the performances form the Mid West
convention which include top notch high school, college and militsry
bands (even Don P.). You can find just about any piece in the band
repertoire on either a live concert or studio recording. Lately it has
become trendy for collge bands to record junior high band literature for
band directors to use as a reference, so folks who remember playing a
piece years ago by peole like: Grundman, Kinyon, Spears, Macbeth, Claude
T. Smith, etc.. can find those too. The only work I know of that they
don't have is a piece I have conducted Gordon Jacob's Old Wine in New
Bottles. You can get a catalog from them at:
Mark Custom Recording Service Inc.
10815 Bodine Rd.
PO Box 406
Clarence NY 14031-0406
Phone 716 759 2600
Fax 716 759 2329
Help someone finds this useful.
Jeremy
Lani Spahr
>
> Steve Smith wrote:
>
> > 5. If Naxos can record the music of the American wind symphony tradition and
> > successfully market it to band directors, band members and nostalgic former band
> > members, they might be looking at that gold mine Klaus H. envisions when he
> > talks about his best-sellers in other territories.
>
> I think I posted this before but it might have just been an E mail..
> I am a "band" person and own a ton of band/ wind ensemble cds.
>
> Just about any band work you want to hear can be found in the Mark
> Custom catatlog.
The only work I know of that they
> don't have is a piece I have conducted Gordon Jacob's Old Wine in New
> Bottles.
I've got a recording of that which I did with the American Chamber Winds
at the WASBE convention in Manchester, England in 1991.
--
Cheers,
Lani Spahr - oboist
Paul R. Goodman
<don...@erols.com> wrote:
>Steve Smith wrote:
>> 4. The one wind band recording of Karel Husa's "Music for Prague 1968" I have
>> on CD (Eastman / Hunsberger, CBS 44916) gets the notes right but is bloodless.
>> The tape I have of my college wind symphony playing it under the observation of
>> the composer misses some notes but is shattering emotionally (though I may be a
>> tad too close to it to be objective). This is one of the finest pieces of the
>> late 20th century. And I don't care half as much for it with strings.
>
>I the college band the U. of Michigan conducted by Husa? On Golden
>Crest.
>A great LP. Wish it would turn up on CD, but don't hold your breath.
>Speaking to the owner of Mark Records, I was informed that the Golden
>Crest catalog was for sale, but at an astronomical price. Unrealistic
>for any company interested in reissuing the band discs from that catalog
>to realize a profit. The estate of Clark Galehouse is quite firm in
>their price. All the while, the Ampex master tapes are deteriorating.
>Many are probably already past rescue. Keep that tape. If you have
>the old LP, it is a real keeper.
The University of Michigan band recording mentioned above was indeed
conducted by Karel Husa. It was a live performance from a retirement
concert honoring Dr. Revelli back in 1971. By the way, there is a
little bit of misinformation on the back of this LP. In the liner
notes concerning the recording it is mentioned that Apotheosis of This
Earth, which is coupled with Music for Prague, was recorded at a later
date, in April 1974, also with the composer conducting. This is not
true. I was in that band in 1974 and we never played that work or had
Husa as a conductor. I believe both performances came from the 1971
retirement concert.
- Paul Goodman
prg...@ibm.net
Mario Taboada
notions from Capitalism's Cretaceous Period being posted by a securely
tenured academic, who need never wonder where the next check is coming
from?>>
You obviously don't have any idea of the pitiful salaries academics
make...I can tell you that, right after leaving one of those marvellous
academic situations my salary tripled (in the for profit sector). Don't
be ridiculous.
Regards,
MT
Steve Smith
> Just about any band work you want to hear can be found in the Mark
> Custom catatlog.
That is a very good point. I think even *I* am on a Mark recording or two... But the
one drawback is that Mark has no mainstream retail distribution. That's where I think
Naxos could come in and sweep up. Imagine if every kid who ever felt her or himself
moved by having performed a piece could conceivably go to a local store and buy a
copy, and for a price that a high schooler could really easily afford, too. That's
what I'm getting at, not to take a thing away from the Mark label.
I know getting a Mark recording takes very little effort, but my past experience in
the retail world leads me to believe that very little effort is often still too much,
all present company obviously excepted.
Steve Smith
ssmi...@sprynet.com
Rodney Bigence
>I know getting a Mark recording takes very little effort, but my past
experience in
>the retail world leads me to believe that very little effort is often still
too much,
>all present company obviously excepted.
Good point. This newsgroup represents fanatics talking to fanatics, and
what we're willing to do to get a desired recording exceeds what civilians
are willing to do. Contrary to the old wisdom, the world does _not_ beat a
path to the door of the inventor of the better mousetrap; the world buys
what it can pick up from the shelf of the nearest and most convenient store.
Distribution is everything -- or close to -- in retail.
a...@cts.canberra.edu.au
nfna...@NOSPAMrocketmail.com (Alrod) wrote:
>
> To be exact, Herr Heymann pays no royalties, no residual payments. I
> agree that some of the other AFM and AFTRA rules are controversial,
> but just a session fee and fuck-you-buddy doesn't cut it in my book.
> As long as he's making money on their work, they should get a cut,
> however small.
What might look like a modest session fee to you is a lot of dough in
Bratislava or Katowice or Budapest or Kiev. These musicians can't wait for
residuals or royalties -- they need cash. Many of them make more dough than
they would if they did get royalties, because frankly how much in royalties
would you make from a DGG full-price recording of a Boismortier opera, or a
mass by Obrecht?
>And that goes for the Ukrainian Starving Gesellschaft
> der Musikfreunde, too. (P.S. He doesn't pay pension or health benefits
> either.)
Do DGG or EMI pay pensions, health benefits or child care?
Haven't heard the Uke band yet -- I want the Martinu symphonies -- but they
might be another Polish National Radio Symphony Orchestra, a great band on the
wrong side of the tracks, capable of terrific performances. I might also cite
the Capella Istropolitana which has developed from being the Naxos all-purpose
chamber orchestra into a very prepossessing HIP ensemble, which would not have
been possible without those Naxos contracts: I can recommend their Locatelli
concerti grossi absolutely.
>
> If you're nostalgic for Vox Boxes, great. Shelf after shelf to choose
> from of indifferently conducted,
Nonsense. They just don't sound like Stokowski
> not-very-well-played,
Tripe
>adequately engineered recordings - don't make it good, make it Thursday,
The information on the back of a Naxos label shows that they usually take 4
days. Some of the earlier Naxos stuff was not well recorded, and some of the
French piano music still sounds as if it was recorded inside the piano, but on
the whole standards of recording seem to have improved dramatically since the
early days.
>not one out of thousands a first choice ever.
Messaien. 20 peeks. Bird catalogue.
Rossini. Il Barber. Tancredi
Couperin (Louis). Harpsichord pieces
Walton. Symph. 1
Gorecki. Sad Symph.
and many more that come close to it. Their "Messiah" seems to have a very
strong following, but then their "Messiah" is probably unique, as is their
diet version of the Faur'e "Requiem". And if you can hear the Szymanowski
"Stabat mater" without shedding a tear ... maybe it's not technically
perfect, but the fervour is all there.
>
> OTOH, try to imagine how it feels as an artist to have work you did
> twenty and thirty years ago still generating income for others, but
> not for you.
OTOHA, if you ain't recording you ain't getting anything at all. And the big
orchestras have simply priced themselves out of a commercially difficult
market.
>
> Sidelight: TV rerun residuals. The Three Stooges sold their residual
> rights to over 200 shorts back to the studio for a minimal lump sum in
> the early 50s, just before the films were released to television.
Did they hire a lawyer before they took this breathtaking decision? If they
were so broke they had to sell their residuals, that's not the studio's
fault. IMHO the 3S should be paying *me* to watch their corn shows, but
that's another story.
Lionel Bart sold the royalties to "Oliver" and so he doesn't get a single
solitary stiver of the big money that's made from revivals. But he blew 30
million pounds in five years by throwing big parties (in Tangier among other
places) and being fleeced by his pals. That's his fault and nobody else's. My
eyes are dry until the next time i play that Szymanowski.
> Except mit Klaus, you don't get to choose. No residuals, no buyout
> fees, just $150 for showing up, forever.
That's the free market for you. He's not running the St V de P
> Maybe if he looks hard enough, he can find an offshore
> orchestra that'll work for 20 cents an hour.
He'll also find some mid-shore ones like the Bournemouth bands that'll take
what he's offering just to stay in business. And it's only a matter of time
before some of the cash-strapped in-shore ones start talking turkey.
>
> Alrod
>
We really are still living in the sixties, aren't we ?
**************************
Thatcher of Kesteven
(Maggie to you)
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
Alrod
astonishing selfishness:
>What might look like a modest session fee to you is a lot of dough in
>Bratislava or Katowice or Budapest or Kiev. These musicians can't wait for
>residuals or royalties -- they need cash.
They should get both. They won't.
>Many of them make more dough than
>they would if they did get royalties, because frankly how much in royalties
>would you make from a DGG full-price recording of a Boismortier opera, or a
>mass by Obrecht?
Obviously, you've never worked in a situation where unexpected royalty
payments come in over the transom and get you over a dry spell.
Inexperience shows.
>>And that goes for the Ukrainian Starving Gesellschaft
>> der Musikfreunde, too. (P.S. He doesn't pay pension or health benefits
>> either.)
>Do DGG or EMI pay pensions, health benefits or child care?
Yes, to the first two. They have to. And somehow they've managed to
survive for 70 years doing it.
>> If you're nostalgic for Vox Boxes, great. Shelf after shelf to choose
>> from of indifferently conducted,
>
>Nonsense. They just don't sound like Stokowski
Is that supposed to be repartee? I dislike Stokowski as much as
Swarowsky. I also dislike unwarranted praise of semi-talented
wannabees like Adriano (too cheap for a second name?) who can only get
sessions by giving their work away, in the hope that a REAL record
label will pick them up and pay them appropriately.
>> not-very-well-played,
>
>Tripe
Listen again to the Naxos Aida. Now that's tripe!
>> OTOH, try to imagine how it feels as an artist to have work you did
>> twenty and thirty years ago still generating income for others, but
>> not for you.
>
>OTOHA, if you ain't recording you ain't getting anything at all. And the big
>orchestras have simply priced themselves out of a commercially difficult
>market.
Not really. The big orchestras are dealing with massive cultural
change on the cusp of a new century and new millenium, and are being
left high and dry along with many other of the artifacts of the
previous zeitgeist. All of the music you love is under threat, not
just recordings by a handful of orchestras.
>> Sidelight: TV rerun residuals. The Three Stooges sold their residual
>> rights to over 200 shorts back to the studio for a minimal lump sum in
>> the early 50s, just before the films were released to television.
>
>Did they hire a lawyer before they took this breathtaking decision?
Yes.
>Lionel Bart sold the royalties to "Oliver" and so he doesn't get a single
>solitary stiver of the big money that's made from revivals. But he blew 30
>million pounds in five years by throwing big parties (in Tangier among other
>places) and being fleeced by his pals. That's his fault and nobody else's. My
>eyes are dry until the next time i play that Szymanowski.
And because Lionel Bart was an asshole, all performers must suffer?
You're under arrest for impersonating a logician.
>> Except mit Klaus, you don't get to choose. No residuals, no buyout
>> fees, just $150 for showing up, forever.
>
>That's the free market for you. He's not running the St V de P
No, and he's not abiding by the free market practice of the last 70
years either. He's changing the rules, shafting his musicians and
driving out recordings by more competent artists.
>We really are still living in the sixties, aren't we ?
Better the 1960's than the 1860's. Starving orphans in the street is
the free market at work too, but some of us have moved passed that.
I noticed the rebuttal was posted from an .edu suffix. Are these
notions from Capitalism's Cretaceous Period being posted by a securely
tenured academic, who need never wonder where the next check is coming
from?
Alrod
Steve Smith
> > 1. I enjoyed playing the music of Jared Spears in high school - very splashy
> > and cinematic.
>
> ...and repetitive, and redundant, and reitterative, and...
Fair enough. But repetition of ideas and motifs is very appealing to younger people
and helps them get a handle on unfamiliar music. That's my theory and I'm sticking to
it... I enjoyed playing timps in "Alleluias" and "Fallen, Fallen Is Babylon" and still
remember that music 15 years later.
> > 2. I enjoyed playing the music of Warren Benson in college - very dramatic and
> > moving.
>
> Mostly lacking in structure, but very colorful. Benson is best
> as a colorist. Think of abstract art consisting of
> swashes of color skillfully blended, creating no particular
> image, but an emotional felling. That is what Benson does
> for me.
That's fair enough, as well. "The Solitary Dancer" and "The Leaves Are Falling" are
the primary pieces I remember here, and the way Bach's "Ein Feste Burg" is woven
through and against the deliberately monotonous (as in Ravel's "Bolero") thread of the
rest of the music makes it pretty gripping given a good performance... it *was* a
reaction to the JFK assassination, after all. And oddly enough, here I find Eastman /
Hunsberger pretty satisfactory (Centaur CD 2014).
> > 4. The one wind band recording of Karel Husa's "Music for Prague 1968" I have
> > on CD (Eastman / Hunsberger, CBS 44916) gets the notes right but is bloodless.
> > The tape I have of my college wind symphony playing it under the observation of
> > the composer misses some notes but is shattering emotionally [snip]
>
> I the college band the U. of Michigan conducted by Husa? On Golden
> Crest.
Not even close to that level. The Trinity University Wind Symphony directed by Dr.
Eugene Carinci, in the presence of the composer, San Antonio, TX circa 1986. And my
tape is just that, a tape of our concert. And I know we flubbed notes, and I know I
was too deeply inside the music to be objective, but the experience was so
incandescent that I'm forever in awe of the music.
> BTW, I think I like the Eastman performance a bit more than you do.
With a bit of distance to lend a modicum of objectivity to my listening experience, I
listened again to that CD last night after posting. And while the music still reduces
me to tears at the end, that performance and recording still largely leave me cold.
> > Hell, *I* get misty over silly things like "La Fiesta Mexicana" and "Rocky Point
> > Holiday."
>
> Well...not misty, but I certainly enjoy these works.
I was being more than a little facetious about those two specific pieces and should
have included a ;-) but was afraid it might skew the earnestness of my post overall...
> > And, limited series by Corporon, Fennell, and the Tokyo Kosei Wind
> > Orchestra aside, this repertoire is largely untapped. What's the problem?
>
> One problem is that the Kosei discs are horribly over-priced in the
> U.S. A Naxos series would solve that problem.
The problem to which I was referring was actually the paucity of available wind
ensemble repertoire, and a subsequent poster very correctly referred me to the Mark
catalog, which I'd overlooked due to its unavailabilty in ordinary stores. But you
definitely hit the nail right smack on the head as regards that Kosei series, which
otherwise had (has?) quite a lot to recommend it.
And Don, I'm not at all surprised that you're down with Fisher Tull, given that you're
a fellow former Texan. (For non-Texans that distinction was only meant to reflect the
composer's geographic location, not his musical content. I'm sure you all have
similar local hero composers.)
Steve Smith
ssmi...@sprynet.com
Alrod
>> notions from Capitalism's Cretaceous Period being posted by a securely
>> tenured academic, who need never wonder where the next check is coming
>> from?
>
>money one can make in the private industry with the measily academic
>salaries.
>Inexperience shows.
Not so fast. You did not read carefully enough.
I'm not talking about the amount of money, I'm talking specifically
about the predictability of its appearance. A secure salary, however
small, gives a very different life from the free-lance experience.
I've lived both and the sensations are very different - the free-lance
has bursts of feverish activity followed by unnerving periods of
nothing at all, and perpetual uncertainty as to whether he or she will
actually get paid for what work there is.
I hope that isn't too tough a distinction.
If you ask very young city kids where milk comes from, they will
answer "cartons". They have to be taught about cows. By the same
token, music doesn't come from CDs - it comes from musicians.
Funny how some people need to fill up their CD shelves so compulsively
that they forget there's an arm moving every bow, a mouth forming
every embouchure, hands touching every keyboard. These body parts
belong to people who've devoted their entire lives to getting good at
what they do, people who deserve proper reward for that devotion.
Long before the 1960s were even dreamed of, employee contributions to
health and retirement funds for musicians were considered a reasonable
cost of doing business, but apparently not now for Herr Heymann.
It is disgusting to think that we as collectors need our selfish
little CD fix so badly that we might want to return to the economic
Stone Age. Count Esterhazy had more enlightened policies about taking
care of the sources of his music.
Alrod
Donald Patterson
>
> Donald Patterson wrote:
>
> > > 1. I enjoyed playing the music of Jared Spears in high school - very splashy
> > > and cinematic.
> >
> > ...and repetitive, and redundant, and reitterative, and...
>
> and helps them get a handle on unfamiliar music. That's my theory and I'm sticking to
> it... I enjoyed playing timps in "Alleluias" and "Fallen, Fallen Is Babylon" and still
> remember that music 15 years later.
Yeah, yeah. I used his stuff too. I also used the music of Claude
Smith.
I don't really think much of either, but they are useful in the
teaching business.
>
> > > 2. I enjoyed playing the music of Warren Benson in college - very dramatic and
> > > moving.
> >
> > Mostly lacking in structure, but very colorful. Benson is best
> > as a colorist. Think of abstract art consisting of
> > swashes of color skillfully blended, creating no particular
> > image, but an emotional felling. That is what Benson does
> > for me.
>
> That's fair enough, as well. "The Solitary Dancer" and "The Leaves Are Falling" are
> the primary pieces I remember here, and the way Bach's "Ein Feste Burg" is woven
> through and against the deliberately monotonous (as in Ravel's "Bolero") thread of the
> rest of the music makes it pretty gripping given a good performance... it *was* a
> reaction to the JFK assassination, after all. And oddly enough, here I find Eastman /
> Hunsberger pretty satisfactory (Centaur CD 2014).
Understood. We in the Marine Band often have to trot out a commissioned
work we premiered at the completion of the National Cathedral in
Washington, D.C. Titled "Meditation on *I am for Peace*", it fits
my description to a tee. I have played Solitary Dancer and find it
a bit more structured than this, but still mostly a color piece.
>
> > > 4. The one wind band recording of Karel Husa's "Music for Prague 1968" I have
> > > on CD (Eastman / Hunsberger, CBS 44916) gets the notes right but is bloodless.
> > > The tape I have of my college wind symphony playing it under the observation of
> > > the composer misses some notes but is shattering emotionally [snip]
> >
> > I the college band the U. of Michigan conducted by Husa? On Golden
> > Crest.
>
> Not even close to that level. The Trinity University Wind Symphony directed by Dr.
> Eugene Carinci, in the presence of the composer, San Antonio, TX circa 1986. And my
> tape is just that, a tape of our concert. And I know we flubbed notes, and I know I
> was too deeply inside the music to be objective, but the experience was so
> incandescent that I'm forever in awe of the music.
Just a few years later, the Texas All-State band played the piece. I had
a horn player in that band. I was teaching in Tomball, TX at the time.
>
> And Don, I'm not at all surprised that you're down with Fisher Tull, given that you're
> a fellow former Texan. (For non-Texans that distinction was only meant to reflect the
> composer's geographic location, not his musical content. I'm sure you all have
> similar local hero composers.)
I still feel his loss. He died of lung cancer in 1994.
A. B. Bonds
>
> >> I noticed the rebuttal was posted from an .edu suffix. Are these
> >> notions from Capitalism's Cretaceous Period being posted by a securely
> >> tenured academic, who need never wonder where the next check is coming
> >> from?
>
> about the predictability of its appearance. A secure salary, however
> small, gives a very different life from the free-lance experience.
>
> I've lived both and the sensations are very different - the free-lance
> has bursts of feverish activity followed by unnerving periods of
> nothing at all, and perpetual uncertainty as to whether he or she will
> actually get paid for what work there is.
>
This is not terribly different from the academic scene of today; note my
Capitalist ".edu" suffix. Tenure is rapidly disappearing and you have to
have demonstrable income through research to justify your existence. No
research, no raises, no job, ultimately. To get research, you have to
respond to market demands.
>
> Long before the 1960s were even dreamed of, employee contributions to
> health and retirement funds for musicians were considered a reasonable
> cost of doing business, but apparently not now for Herr Heymann.
> Remember that part about market demands? In case you haven't noticed,
classical CD sales are in the toilet. In part this can be attributed to
appalling management practices of some companies, but the fact that many
US orchestras require payment to an extent that cannot be justified by
sales hasn't helped.
The good folks working for Herr Heymann did not have a gun to their head.
I am sure that they were happy to get the work. If you are unhappy that
they got the work, that's your problem. Find another job.
The Golden Age is over, learn to live with it.
A. B. Bonds
Alrod
>classical CD sales are in the toilet. In part this can be attributed to
>appalling management practices of some companies, but the fact that many
>US orchestras require payment to an extent that cannot be justified by
>sales hasn't helped.
I agree. But when Herr Heymann puts the blame on orchestral recording
rates, he is pretending that only one factor out of many is the whole
problem. You and I know that the whole situation is metastasizing for
a multitude of reasons, but Heymann insists that he can fix everything
if he is only allowed to steal.
I am not surprised Naxos is now putting out Met and Toscanini
broadcasts, making it the only international label with pretensions to
legitimacy that also deals openly in grey market goods. I guess the
lack of residual payment obligations just proved irresistible. I
always thought Heymann had the instincts of a pirate, and now he has
proven it.
>The good folks working for Herr Heymann did not have a gun to their head.
>I am sure that they were happy to get the work. If you are unhappy that
>they got the work, that's your problem. Find another job.
>The Golden Age is over, learn to live with it.
Thanks for the update, but I have been announcing the end of the
Golden Age around here on and off for three years, and usually get an
argument about it.
And I do live with it, as you suggest. I recently discovered that I
have immediately sold off fully nine-tenths of the Naxos releases I
have purchased, for the reason of their appalling mediocrity. No, I
don't buy Naxos any more. The quality control stinks.
Alrod
a...@cts.canberra.edu.au
nfna...@NOSPAMrocketmail.com (Alrod) wrote:
> On Wed, 08 Jul 1998 01:35:25 GMT, a...@cts.canberra.edu.au wrote with
> astonishing selfishness:
>
> >What might look like a modest session fee to you is a lot of dough in
> >Bratislava or Katowice or Budapest or Kiev. These musicians can't wait for
> >residuals or royalties -- they need cash.
>
> They should get both. They won't.
But they get to eat. Actually there's a kind of Volkswanderung going on as the
best musicians move from East to West. That's why Naxos is recording more and
more in France and the UK.
>
> >Many of them make more dough than
> >they would if they did get royalties, because frankly how much in royalties
> >would you make from a DGG full-price recording of a Boismortier opera, or a
> >mass by Obrecht?
>
> Obviously, you've never worked in a situation where unexpected royalty
> payments come in over the transom and get you over a dry spell.
> Inexperience shows.
You got unexpected royalties for your Boismortier opera and Obrecht mass
recordings? Must have kept you in baked beans for a whole week ...
>
> >>And that goes for the Ukrainian Starving Gesellschaft
> >> der Musikfreunde, too. (P.S. He doesn't pay pension or health benefits
> >> either.)
>
> >Do DGG or EMI pay pensions, health benefits or child care?
>
> Yes, to the first two. They have to. And somehow they've managed to
> survive for 70 years doing it.
And can they afford to going to go on doing it for the next 70?
>
> >> If you're nostalgic for Vox Boxes, great. Shelf after shelf to choose
> >> from of indifferently conducted,
> >
> >Nonsense. They just don't sound like Stokowski
>
> Is that supposed to be repartee? I dislike Stokowski as much as
> Swarowsky.
Stokoski isn't all that bad. it's a question of horses for courses.
> I also dislike unwarranted praise of semi-talented
> wannabees like Adriano (too cheap for a second name?) who can only get
> sessions by giving their work away, in the hope that a REAL record
> label will pick them up and pay them appropriately.
Not Adrian Leaper and the Big Canary? He makes a living. Much more comfy than
sitting around in rainy Manchester waiting for the Halle to die.
>
> >> not-very-well-played,
> >
> >Tripe
>
> Listen again to the Naxos Aida. Now that's tripe!
One swallow doesn't ... I can't stand Aida, and I normally wouldn't go to a
budget label for something that needs a cast of Ks. I believe they do a very
nice Magic Flute, however.
> >
> >OTOHA, if you ain't recording you ain't getting anything at all. And the big
> >orchestras have simply priced themselves out of a commercially difficult
> >market.
>
> Not really. The big orchestras are dealing with massive cultural
> change on the cusp of a new century and new millenium, and are being
> left high and dry along with many other of the artifacts of the
> previous zeitgeist. All of the music you love is under threat, not
> just recordings by a handful of orchestras.
All the music I love, eh? They're going to take away my Fats Waller record?
Look, the big orchestras are losing dough hand over fist, record sales are
down, contracts are being torn up left and right. This would have happened
even if HNH had stuck to flogging transistors to GIs in 'Nam. He saw a market
and he went for it. That's how things work around here.
>
> >> Sidelight: TV rerun residuals. The Three Stooges sold their residual
> >> rights to over 200 shorts back to the studio for a minimal lump sum in
> >> the early 50s, just before the films were released to television.
> >
> >Did they hire a lawyer before they took this breathtaking decision?
>
> Yes.
Tell me who he is so I can avoid him ...
>
> >Lionel Bart sold the royalties to "Oliver" and so he doesn't get a single
> >solitary stiver of the big money that's made from revivals. But he blew 30
> >million pounds in five years by throwing big parties (in Tangier among other
> >places) and being fleeced by his pals. That's his fault and nobody else's. My
> >eyes are dry until the next time I play that Szymanowski.
>
> And because Lionel Bart was an asshole, all performers must suffer?
> You're under arrest for impersonating a logician.
Whatever Mr Bart may have been doing in Tangier, rectum does not come to mind
whenever I hear "Consider Yourself" or "Where is Love?" or even "Who will
buy?". My point isn't that *nobody* should get royalties or residuals. It's
that we shouldn't feel too sorry for people who take a chance by selling
them. Lionel Bart simply thought that nobody could blow thirty million just
by having a good time, and he was wrong.
People can only get royalties if the market exists for what they're
producing. I imagine that the Yo Yos and Robertos will always be able to get
them, despite the efforts of certain superstars to bankrupt any management
foolish enough to hire them. IMHO people like Kennedy are doing far more to
wreck classical music than Klaus Heyman. But if people can make an honest
buck by working for a flat fee I don't see why we should regard them as some
kind of blackleg labour.
>
> >> Except mit Klaus, you don't get to choose. No residuals, no buyout
> >> fees, just $150 for showing up, forever.
> >
> >That's the free market for you. He's not running the St V de P
>
> No, and he's not abiding by the free market practice of the last 70
> years either. He's changing the rules, shafting his musicians and
> driving out recordings by more competent artists.
He's changing rules that would probably need to have changed anyway. He's
giving good money to people like the Polish RSO and the Oxford Camarata who
may make less per disc, but then they make an awful lot of diskc.
I can't see that he's driving out recordings by any artists, whether more or
less competent. That's done by people like the late [--------] ( insert name
of famous dead musician here)whose recordings are also widely available at
mid price. You'll have noticed on this group that the moment any Naxos
recording is mentioned, somebody comes up with half a dozen budget or
midpriced rereleases of the same repertoire. Nobody is forced to buy Naxos.
You pays your money and you takes your choice.
>
> >We really are still living in the sixties, aren't we ?
>
> Better the 1960's than the 1860's. Starving orphans in the street is
> the free market at work too, but some of us have moved passed that.
I understand that the free market reforms of the Reagan/Clinton presidencies
have taken a lot of the starving orphans back off the streets again, and that
desperate places like Harlem are really looking up now.
> I noticed the rebuttal was posted from an .edu suffix. Are these
> notions from Capitalism's Cretaceous Period being posted by a securely
> tenured academic, who need never wonder where the next check is coming
> from?
Nope. But ironically enough, a lot of the bands from places like Kosice who
originally signed up for HNH were products of the Marxist Mesolithic system --
and victims of its collapse.
>
> Alrod
>
*****************************************
Thatcher of Kesteven
Beware of Princess Margaret's Imitations!
*****************************************
a...@cts.canberra.edu.au
nfna...@NOSPAMrocketmail.com (Alrod) wrote:
> I recently discovered that I have immediately sold off fully nine-tenths of
the Naxos releases I have purchased, for the reason of their appalling
mediocrity. No, I don't buy Naxos any more. The quality control stinks.
>
> Alrod
>
As a matter of interest which one did you keep?
*************************
Thatcher of Kesteven
Steve Smith
> > And Don, I'm not at all surprised that you're down with Fisher Tull [snip]
>
> I still feel his loss. He died of lung cancer in 1994.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That *is* a loss, and since I moved to NYC in mid-'93, I hadn't even heard
that he'd passed.
I'll be quiet now. But thanks for the exchange and the information, Don.
Steve Smith
ssmi...@sprynet.com
John Gladney Proffitt
compact disc on Albany TROY 223, Orchestral Music of Fisher Tull?
Contains Symphonic Treatise; Overture for a Legacy; Capriccio; and Trumpet
Concerto No. 1.
Very attractive music.
--
John Proffitt
KUHF-FM Radio
Houston, Texas
Alan Swindells
nfna...@NOSPAMrocketmail.com (Alrod) wrote:
> >Do DGG or EMI pay pensions, health benefits or child care?
>
> Yes, to the first two. They have to. And somehow they've managed to
> survive for 70 years doing it.
I don't think so. They might (indeed do) for their salaried
staff, but to a second violin, retired from the LSO? Do you
pay a pension to the guys you employed last week to repair
your windows?
No, you don't.
And why not? Because you don't employ them, that's why, any
more than EMI (or Naxos) employs the members of the orchestra
that recorded for them last week.
The fees that Naxos pays are less than most, but reflect, if
you will, that the high fees demanded by American orchestras
mean that many of them no longer make recordings at all. The
laws of the free market suggest that they might try to cut
their fees a bit.
Alrod
>>
>> Yes, to the first two. They have to. And somehow they've managed to
>> survive for 70 years doing it.
>
>I don't think so. They might (indeed do) for their salaried
>staff, but to a second violin, retired from the LSO? Do you
>pay a pension to the guys you employed last week to repair
>your windows?
For crying out loud. We just found people who never heard of a
Musicians' Union, which maintains health and retirement plans for all
working members. Of course the record labels have to pay into such
plans, which are administered by the unions. If you earn a certain
threshold amount over a certain period of time, you qualify for
pension and health care. This has been in place at least since the
1920's.
Where ya been?
Alrod
Alrod
>the Naxos releases I have purchased, for the reason of their appalling
>mediocrity. No, I don't buy Naxos any more. The quality control stinks.
>As a matter of interest which one did you keep?
Selectivity is a dirty word to a glutton.
Alrod
Alan Swindells
nfna...@NOSPAMrocketmail.com (Alrod) wrote:
> For crying out loud. We just found people who never heard of a
> Musicians' Union, which maintains health and retirement plans for all
> working members. Of course the record labels have to pay into such
> plans, which are administered by the unions. If you earn a certain
> threshold amount over a certain period of time, you qualify for
> pension and health care. This has been in place at least since the
> 1920's.
Ah, abuse?
FWIW, when I hire a group of people to do a job of work for me,
I make a block payment to them. I do not make separate payments
to them, their pension fund, the Inland Revenue, their laundry,
etc, etc. This applies to musicians as much as to jobbing
carpenters.
What do you do? Presumably in the US you have to do this sort of
thing all the time. Doesn't work like that everywhere you know,
but it could explain why so many American orchestras are without
a recording contract.
Jeffrey Smith
All qualitative subjective judgement is highly comparative. In
absolute terms Naxos may be mediocher, but when compared to some of
the junk put out at full price by other labels it is far superior.
Jeffrey Smith.
Alrod
>I make a block payment to them. I do not make separate payments
>to them, their pension fund, the Inland Revenue, their laundry,
>etc, etc. This applies to musicians as much as to jobbing
>carpenters.
>
>What do you do? Presumably in the US you have to do this sort of
>thing all the time. Doesn't work like that everywhere you know,
>but it could explain why so many American orchestras are without
>a recording contract.
Bet you have a really interesting take on "Amadeus."
Alrod
Mario Taboada
<<All qualitative subjective judgement is highly comparative. In
absolute terms Naxos may be mediocre, but when compared to some of
the junk put out at full price by other labels it is far superior.>>
Without talking about junk, let's take DG and Naxos for comparison:
* Jeno Jando's wonderful Haydn sonata recordings are far superior to the
nonexistent DG competition.
* The Moeran string quartets by the Maggini on Naxos are far superior to
the nonexistent DG competition.
* Benjamin Frith's sensational Mendelssohn series on Naxos is far
superior to the nonexistent DG competition
* Naxos's excellent catalog of guitar music, including the landmark Sor
edition, far surpasses that of DG (which relies on old recordings by the
great Yepes and a very few by Soelscher).
* The Kodaly's Haydn quartet series on Naxos far surpasses the old
recordings by the Amadeus on DG.
* The Bartok chamber music disks with Jando, Pauk et al surpass DG's
offerings, if any are in print (I don't think so).
* The Szymanowski piano series with Roscoe on Naxos surpasses the
nonexistent competition from DG.
* Jeno Jando's Bartok concertos hold their own with Geza Anda's; ditto
for the Mozart concerto series.
* Jeno Jando's Beethoven sonata set competes (beats, mostly) the
incomplete set by the late Gilels.
* Christiane Edinger's Bach solo violin set is only barely below the
Milstein set on DG, an uncontroversial Hall of Fame candidate.
* Tim Hugh's brilliant recording of the Britten cello suites on Naxos
surpass the nonexistent DG competition.
* The excellent Spohr clarinet concertos and piano trios on Naxos
surpass the nonexistent DG competition.
* The Stuttgart Brahms sextets on Naxos surpass the nonexistent DG
competition.
* The Saint-Saens trios on Naxos far surpass the nonexistent DG
competition.
* The Smetana quartets by the Moyzes on Naxos surpass the nonexistent DG
competition.
* The Dvorak quartets by New Vlach on Naxos so far surpass the old
Prague set on DG.
Shall I continue?
Regards,
Mario Taboada
Simon Roberts
tmail.com>Distribution:
Mario Taboada (matr...@sprintmail.com) wrote:
: * Jeno Jando's wonderful Haydn sonata recordings are far superior to the
: nonexistent DG competition.
: * Jeno Jando's Bartok concertos hold their own with Geza Anda's; ditto
: for the Mozart concerto series.
: * Jeno Jando's Beethoven sonata set competes (beats, mostly) the
: incomplete set by the late Gilels.
[sundry snips]
: Shall I continue?
Well, I will; while you're on a Jando kick, you might as well note that
his Bach WTK beats the only DG competition I can think of (Gieseking; am I
overlooking something?).
Simon
Paul Goldstein
>
> Jeffrey Smith:
>
> <<All qualitative subjective judgement is highly comparative. In
> absolute terms Naxos may be mediocre, but when compared to some of
> the junk put out at full price by other labels it is far superior.>>
>
> Without talking about junk, let's take DG and Naxos for comparison:
>
> * Tim Hugh's brilliant recording of the Britten cello suites on Naxos
> surpass the nonexistent DG competition.
>
I have to dissent on this one. This is one of the most curious
productions I've ever heard. It sounds like a recording of 2
simultaneous events: a playing of the music and a nearby aerobic
workout class. To the extent the playing is heard, the microphone seems
to have been placed inside the cello. And there must have been a
spotlight mike taped to Mr. Hugh's heaving bosom. In short . . . I find
this recording a technical disaster.
Halvard Johnson
And the Eder Quartet's Shostakovich series beats out any such series
on DG.
HJ
Halvard Johnson (hjoh...@umbc.edu)