Most awful piano concerto
Rugby
the work in 1906 per the liner notes.The cd also contains the premiere
recording of Rubinstein's Caprice russe. Really essential to any
collection; so bad must be heard to believe;the Caprice even more
vacuous than the Concerto,hard to imagine as that may be after one
hears the Concerto.Even worse than I recall after first hearing it
years ago. Makes the Martucci # 2 seem a masterpiece.
sechumlib
Well, there's always the Grieg - if you're looking for something to fit
your title.
Matthew B. Tepper
with Daniel Epstein is NOT among the Ormandy/Philadelphia Orchestra
recordings that I'd most like to see reissued.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Harrington/Coy is a gay wrestler who won't come out of the closet
yenda smejkal
"Rugby" <steve...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1177417126.3...@n35g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
are not good enough to play anything else...and it really is pretty
hackneyed...i have heard good performances of it,,,but they are few.
i think the yellow river concerto is a gorgeous piece and i listen to it
often.
the only piano concerto i have never really warmed to is the Britten...
MrT
Have you heard the Bax Symphonic Variations? Not even Joyce Hatto can
rescue that stuff. Chaikovsky's piano concerti are also dreadful,
despite the popularity of the first one. The Paderewski, on the other
hand, is pleasant and I am sure it is a lot of fun for the pianist (I
recommend Earl Wild's performance). Wasn't there an incredible
potboiler concerto by Scharwenka?
Best,
MrT
Kerrison Spartan
Have you ever heard any of Kurt Leimer's Piano Concertos ? He recorded
his 4th (he was the soloist) in New York with Stokowski and the
Symphony of the Air, in 1959, for the German 'Electrola' label and
it's just ghastly, starting off like "Chopsticks" arr. Bruckner and
going downhill from there. He also recorded two more of his concertos
(one for the left hand alone) with, of all conductors, Herbert von
Karajan, and the Philharmonia, for the same label. I've never heard
that LP but rumour had it that Karajan's fee for the sessions paid for
a brand new aeroplane! One assumes from this that Leimer had pots of
cash.
Charles Milton Ling
> Some Committee or Other, "Yellow River" Concerto. The RCA version of this
> with Daniel Epstein is NOT among the Ormandy/Philadelphia Orchestra
> recordings that I'd most like to see reissued.
>
as though a seriously impaired shade of Rachmaninoff was one of the
members of the "committee".
Which makes me remember Rosemary Brown, of course. Her LPs I *do* have,
and won't ever part with.
Greetings to all,
Charley
--
Charles Milton Ling
Vienna, Austria
Matthew B. Tepper
following letters to be typed in
news:954c3$462e4c10$d52f8ebb$84...@news.chello.at:
> Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
>> Some Committee or Other, "Yellow River" Concerto. The RCA version of
>> this with Daniel Epstein is NOT among the Ormandy/Philadelphia
>> Orchestra recordings that I'd most like to see reissued.
>>
> Ah, I wish I had that one. I recall reading somewhere that it sounded
> as though a seriously impaired shade of Rachmaninoff was one of the
> members of the "committee".
> Which makes me remember Rosemary Brown, of course. Her LPs I *do* have,
> and won't ever part with.
Only one Rosemary Brown LP was issued in the US, on American Philips, in
one of their typically crappy pressings. I have another one, on Japanese
Philips, but I can't at the moment recall what was on it.
Matthew B. Tepper
be typed in news:1177434587.9...@r3g2000prh.googlegroups.com:
> Have you heard the Bax Symphonic Variations? Not even Joyce Hatto can
> rescue that stuff.
What about Margaret Fingerhut?
Matthew B. Tepper
following letters to be typed in news:1177435254.159794.246000
@r3g2000prh.googlegroups.com:
> Have you ever heard any of Kurt Leimer's Piano Concertos ? He recorded his
> 4th (he was the soloist) in New York with Stokowski and the Symphony of the
> Air, in 1959, for the German 'Electrola' label and it's just ghastly,
> starting off like "Chopsticks" arr. Bruckner and going downhill from there.
> He also recorded two more of his concertos (one for the left hand alone)
> with, of all conductors, Herbert von Karajan, and the Philharmonia, for the
> same label. I've never heard that LP but rumour had it that Karajan's fee
> for the sessions paid for a brand new aeroplane! One assumes from this that
> Leimer had pots of cash.
I mentioned here a few months ago that one of these recordings, the Left Hand
Concerto with Karajan, has lately been reissued on Colosseum Classics COL
9200.2, coupled with Richard Strauss' "Panathenäenzug" (possibly the premiere
recording of that work, although I don't want to pull a Waleson).
Alan Cooper
@r3g2000prh.googlegroups.com:
> Chaikovsky's piano concerti are also dreadful,
> despite the popularity of the first one.
One of the many reasons that MrT and I get along so well (although I grudgingly admit to
some affection for the uncut slow movement of #2). I'd have to say that Glazunov's Piano
Concerti are a rung below Tchaik's (not even Richter can make anything of the f-m), but the
winner and still champion is Bortkiewicz #1, which sounds like a pastiche put together by a
Russian PDQ Bach. I also have great affection for Dohnanyi #2, an old-fashioned romantic
potboiler with a "big tune" in the first movement that belies its date of composition by a
half-century or so.
AC
Charles Milton Ling
> Charles Milton Ling <cml...@teleweb.at> appears to have caused the
> following letters to be typed in
> news:954c3$462e4c10$d52f8ebb$84...@news.chello.at:
>
>> Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
>>> Some Committee or Other, "Yellow River" Concerto. The RCA version of
>>> this with Daniel Epstein is NOT among the Ormandy/Philadelphia
>>> Orchestra recordings that I'd most like to see reissued.
>>>
>> Ah, I wish I had that one. I recall reading somewhere that it sounded
>> as though a seriously impaired shade of Rachmaninoff was one of the
>> members of the "committee".
>> Which makes me remember Rosemary Brown, of course. Her LPs I *do* have,
>> and won't ever part with.
>
> Only one Rosemary Brown LP was issued in the US, on American Philips, in
> one of their typically crappy pressings. I have another one, on Japanese
> Philips, but I can't at the moment recall what was on it.
>
Ah, I have two, ordered from England at the time, I believe.
It is not easy to argue that one is not sufficient, of course.
C.
Russ and/or Martha Oppenheim
"MrT" <symbi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1177434587.9...@r3g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
> Wasn't there an incredible
> potboiler concerto by Scharwenka?
>
There are four of 'em; Earl Wild made a terrific recording of #1, which I
would hardly rank amon the "most awfuls." I like the scherzo so much I
usually play just that, and hardly know the rest of the concerto.
To stay on topic, i have to say that of the standard concertosI dislike
Grieg's the most . The Yellow River, of which I caught a bit by accident
on FM, is truly vile.
Of the non-standard concertos I've heard that least resembles music, I would
vote for Carter.
Russ (not Martha)
graham
"Russ and/or Martha Oppenheim" <moppe...@satx.rr.com> wrote in message
news:462e59e9$0$19434$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
>
> >
> Of the non-standard concertos I've heard that least resembles music, I
> would
> vote for Carter.
>
Graham
Andy Evans
We have to be thinking "worse than the Warsaw Concerto" so something
like The Yellow River Piano Concerto of which Takemitsu said ""How
could a nation as great as China come up with such a composition!"
sechumlib
If the whole nation, or even a committee thereof, is listed as the
"composer", I can see that as a possibility. And that WAS the situation
with regard to that "work".
Russ and/or Martha Oppenheim
"graham" <g.st...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:1CuXh.122583$DE1.52473@pd7urf2no...
The Minotaur is about my speed.
Russ (not Martha)
boombox
Try the Dennis Eberhard Piano Concerto "Shadow of the Swan" (dedicated
to the victims of the explosion on the Russian submarine Kursk) in the
Naxos American series. Woof!
mpe...@comcast.net
His title says "most awful," not "most popular."
Marc Perman
sechumlib
I stand my ground.
Bob Lombard
"sechumlib" <sech...@liberal.net> wrote in message
news:462eb610$0$24767$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
Aha! Elitism, and not subtle either.
bl
Sol L. Siegel
wrote:
>Well, there's always the Grieg - if you're looking for something to fit
>your title.
Whoa... If the Grieg is bad, how about a weak imitation of it? That's
what the original version of the Rach PC1 sound like. (Remember, it's
his Op. 1.) I was amazed to learn just how big an improvement the
rewrite actually was.
- Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA
"It may take a village to raise a child - but it only takes one idiot
to burn down the village."
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Sol L. Siegel
wrote:
Old saying: a camel is a horse that was designed by a committee.
Camels, however, are useful.
dk
Richard Schultz
: Well, there's always the Grieg - if you're looking for something to fit
: your title.
I take it that you've never heard the "Yellow River" Concerto.
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"You don't even have a clue about which clue you're missing."
Richard Schultz
: Some Committee or Other, "Yellow River" Concerto. The RCA version of this
: recordings that I'd most like to see reissued.
as filler?
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"You go on playing Bach your way, and I'll go on playing him *his* way."
-- Wanda Landowska
Matthew B. Tepper
following letters to be typed in news:f0mqat$4db$3...@news.iucc.ac.il:
> In article <Xns991C4D578E5...@207.217.125.201>, Matthew B.
> Tepper <oy?@earthlink.net> wrote:
>: Some Committee or Other, "Yellow River" Concerto. The RCA version of
>: this with Daniel Epstein is NOT among the Ormandy/Philadelphia
>: Orchestra recordings that I'd most like to see reissued.
>
> Not even if they used historical recordings of Florence Foster Jenkins
> as filler?
Nope; I've already got both the BMG and Naxos editions of FFJ.
yenda smejkal
favourites...and i far prefer Hatto to Fingerhut in this
work...tchaikovsky's i rather like too..most of all no.2.
yenda smejkal
"Matthew B. Tepper" <oyž@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:Xns991C7B053C2...@207.217.125.201...
it?
Beaver Lad
Milton Ling <cml...@teleweb.at> wrote:
============================================
Rosemary Brown!!! I have two LPs by her. Are there more? And is she
still among the living?
Richard Schultz
: Rosemary Brown!!! I have two LPs by her. Are there more? And is she
: still among the living?
Would it make any diffrence if she were not?
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell bad."
Matthew B. Tepper
following letters to be typed in
> "Matthew B. Tepper" <oyþ@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:Xns991C7B053C2...@207.217.125.201...
>> Kerrison Spartan <kerrison1...@yahoo.co.uk> appears to have
>> caused the following letters to be typed in news:1177435254.159794.246000
>> @r3g2000prh.googlegroups.com:
>>
>>> Have you ever heard any of Kurt Leimer's Piano Concertos ? He recorded
>>> his 4th (he was the soloist) in New York with Stokowski and the Symphony
>>> of the Air, in 1959, for the German 'Electrola' label and it's just
>>> ghastly, starting off like "Chopsticks" arr. Bruckner and going downhill
>>> from there. He also recorded two more of his concertos (one for the left
>>> hand alone) with, of all conductors, Herbert von Karajan, and the
>>> Philharmonia, for the same label. I've never heard that LP but rumour had
>>> it that Karajan's fee for the sessions paid for a brand new aeroplane!
>>> One assumes from this that Leimer had pots of cash.
>>
>> I mentioned here a few months ago that one of these recordings, the Left
>> Hand Concerto with Karajan, has lately been reissued on Colosseum Classics
>> COL 9200.2, coupled with Richard Strauss' "Panathenäenzug" (possibly the
>> premiere recording of that work, although I don't want to pull a Waleson).
>
> i love the Panathenaenzug...is it a new recording and if so, who is
> playing it?
As I said, it is Kurt Leimer, in a 1972 recording with Günter Neidlinger
and the Nürnberg Symphoniker. This was once on a Colosseum (East Germany)
LP, where it was paired with a Zsolt Deaky recording of "Metamorphosen."
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:250420070351575128%beav...@febloo.ralnig:
> In article <954c3$462e4c10$d52f8ebb$84...@news.chello.at>, Charles
> Milton Ling <cml...@teleweb.at> wrote:
>
>> Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
>> > Some Committee or Other, "Yellow River" Concerto. The RCA version of
>> > this with Daniel Epstein is NOT among the Ormandy/Philadelphia
>> > Orchestra recordings that I'd most like to see reissued.
>> >
>> Ah, I wish I had that one. I recall reading somewhere that it sounded
>> as though a seriously impaired shade of Rachmaninoff was one of the
>> members of the "committee".
>> Which makes me remember Rosemary Brown, of course. Her LPs I *do*
>> have, and won't ever part with.
>
> Rosemary Brown!!! I have two LPs by her. Are there more? And is she
> still among the living?
I recall having read an obituary for her a few years ago; this seems to be
confirmed by Wikipedia. Whether she is still composing, that I do not know.
aleksios
> [...] The Yellow River Piano Concerto of which Takemitsu
> said ""How could a nation as great as China come up with
> such a composition!"
Nonsense! The "great nation of China" did not produce the YRC, any more
than the great nation of Russia produced Tchaikovsky's concerti, or the
small nation of Norway Grieg's PC.
Although it is usually credited to Yin Chengzong, the YRC was the
product of a committee. Besides the aforementioned, its members were
Chu Wanghua, Liu Zhuang, Sheng Lihong, Shi Shucheng, Xu Feixing. It was
based on a composition by Xian Xinghai (reputedly Mao's favourite
composer). A little about that time here:
<http://preview.tinyurl.com/2h7xd5>
--Alex (the great philistine)
Norman M. Schwartz
"Matthew B. Tepper" <oy兀earthlink.net> wrote in message
>
> I recall having read an obituary for her a few years ago; this seems to be
> confirmed by Wikipedia. Whether she is still composing, that I do not
> know.
>
aleksios
> [...] I've already got both the BMG and Naxos editions of FFJ.
Masochist?
--Alex (the sadistic philistine)
Peter123
> his 4th (he was the soloist) in New York with Stokowski and the
> Symphony of the Air, in 1959, for the German 'Electrola' label and
> it's just ghastly, starting off like "Chopsticks" arr. Bruckner and
> going downhill from there. He also recorded two more of his concertos
> (one for the left hand alone) with, of all conductors, Herbert von
> Karajan, and the Philharmonia, for the same label. I've never heard
> that LP but rumour had it that Karajan's fee for the sessions paid for
> a brand new aeroplane! One assumes from this that Leimer had pots of
> cash.
There's also SXL2100 Leimer Piano Concerto No.4, Kurt Leimer/Piano,
Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra conducted by Robert Wagner. I've yet to
see a copy of this, or the ones below.
Details of the Electrolas are:
EMI-Electrola SME 91 753
Kurt Leimer: Klavierkonzert c-Moll
Kurt Leimer: Klavierkonzert für die linke Hand
with Philharmonia Orchestra London, Herbert von Karajan
EMI-Electrola C 063-29030 Kurt Leimer: Klavierkonzert Nr. 4
with Symphony of the Air-Orchestra New York, Leopold Stokowski
More details here: http://www.kurtleimer.ch/index.htm
Matthew B. Tepper
to be typed in news:200704251610418930-alex0192@gmailcom:
The BMG I bought so I could produce a gift CDR for a few friends which
compared several recordings of "Mein Herr Marquis," with performers such as
FFJ and Charlotte Church. The Naxos I bought for the single worst item on
it, a wretched song called "Please don't say no, say maybe," sung by one of
my favorite singers -- Lauritz Melchior.
makropulos
> Of the non-standard concertos I've heard that least resembles music, I would
> vote for Carter.
>
My clear first choice for most awful among the non-standard repertoire
would be the Piano Concerto Op.31 by Pfitzner. I once endured a live
performance of it and have subsquently heard the Marco Polo recording.
Rugby
The Paderewski is grand, wonderful slow movement,not a trifle as one
might fear.
Sorry, but I call Scharwenka # 1 the "Barnum and Bailey" Concerto
after the first movement theme.Even Wild cant save the work.Scharwenka
4 is worth a hearing.
Tchaikovsky 2 is awful.
Then there is old double-note, Henri Herz.......has anyone done ( or
did he compose) a Leopold deMeyer concerto ?
sorabji...@lineone.net
made in this thread of both Carter and the "Warsaw Concerto" (the name
of whose composer, Add-in-sell, seems faintly appropriate); it
occurred to me a few years ago that, when Carter was commissioned to
write his "Boston Concerto", it was perhaps a good thing that the
commission came from the Boston Symphony Orchestra - imagine what the
work would have been his it come from the Warsaw Philharmonic...
Best,
Alistair
sorabji...@lineone.net
Best,
Alistair
mo...@goldmail.de
> and the Nürnberg Symphoniker. This was once on a Colosseum (East Germany)
> LP, where it was paired with a Zsolt Deaky recording of "Metamorphosen."
>
Colosseum was/is a West German label based in Nürnberg, affiliated
somehow with the US. Bolet recorded for it (Sgambati and Prokofieff
piano concertos), they recorded Elly Ney in her very late years on
many Lps with Beethoven etc.
The most awful piano concerto is likely only to be known to those who
own it on LP: it's the rare Salt Lake City made Lp with Linda Babits's
live performanc eo0f her "Western Star" Concerto from the
fifites . ....and I daresay that the bashing of the Grieg concerto is
mostly done by people who can't write a decent tune themselves, let
alone harmonizing it just properly...
gustav
Matthew B. Tepper
news:1177571357.8...@r3g2000prh.googlegroups.com:
> The most awful piano concerto is likely only to be known to those who own
> it on LP: it's the rare Salt Lake City made Lp with Linda Babits's live
> performance of her "Western Star" Concerto from the fifites . ....and I
> daresay that the bashing of the Grieg concerto is mostly done by people who
> can't write a decent tune themselves, let alone harmonizing it just
> properly...
I'm perversely curious to hear this Babits piece. I'd also like to hear that
piano concerto by some French-Canadian composer whose name I can't remember,
which has been compared with the Warsaw Concerto.
And has anybody yet mentioned Ferde Grofé's awful concerto, which was once
recorded by no less than Jesús María Sanromá?
sechumlib
> and I daresay that the bashing of the Grieg concerto is
> mostly done by people who can't write a decent tune themselves, let
> alone harmonizing it just properly...
Oh, that's definitely true. On the other hand, I totally reject any
philosophy that includes "don't criticize it if you can't do it".
That's purest bullshit.
aleksios
> The BMG I bought so I could [...] The Naxos I bought [...]
He doth protest too much, methinks...
--Alex (the knowing philistine)
Alan Briker
Wild perform this with the BSO at Carnegie Hall many years ago (before he
recorded it). The entire audience was grinning from ear to ear after the 2nd
movement. OK- so there's not an original thought in the piece. But it is
tuneful, virtuosic, fairly well constructed, and just plain fun. Is there a
law that says a work of classical music must produce tears, sweat or
orgasmic rapture to be taken seriously?
BTW, I agree with those who dislike the Rubinstein Concerti. I don't even
find much to admire the 4th, which remains on the fringes of the repertory,
while the others deserve their obscurity.
Alan Briker
On 4/26/07 10:46 AM, in article 4630bb5b$0$9900$4c36...@roadrunner.com,
makropulos
> piano concerto by some French-Canadian composer whose name I can't remember,
> which has been compared with the Warsaw Concerto.
>
There's at least one recording of it around - probably more. (I heard
it once - on a disc that also included the Warsaw Concerto if I
remember rightly - it's nothing like as much fun).
yenda smejkal
"Rugby" <steve...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1177417126.3...@n35g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
> Just for "fun" acquired the Anton Rubinstein # 5. Lhevinne debuted in
> the work in 1906 per the liner notes.The cd also contains the premiere
> recording of Rubinstein's Caprice russe. Really essential to any
> collection; so bad must be heard to believe;the Caprice even more
> vacuous than the Concerto,hard to imagine as that may be after one
> hears the Concerto.Even worse than I recall after first hearing it
> years ago. Makes the Martucci # 2 seem a masterpiece.
>
Copland... just never worked for me at all!
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:4630bb5b$0$9900$4c36...@roadrunner.com:
True! You don't have to be a chicken to recognize a rotten egg.
Al Eisner
> On 2007-04-24 08:18:46 -0400, Rugby <steve...@gmail.com> said:
>
> > Just for "fun" acquired the Anton Rubinstein # 5. Lhevinne debuted in
> > the work in 1906 per the liner notes.The cd also contains the premiere
> > recording of Rubinstein's Caprice russe. Really essential to any
> > collection; so bad must be heard to believe;the Caprice even more
> > vacuous than the Concerto,hard to imagine as that may be after one
> > hears the Concerto.Even worse than I recall after first hearing it
> > years ago. Makes the Martucci # 2 seem a masterpiece.
>
> Well, there's always the Grieg - if you're looking for something to fit
> your title.
I don't know -- I sort of like the Grieg, if I haven't heard it for a
long time. (And after hearing Grieg's String Quartet in concert last
year, I'd have to rate the Concerto as a masterpiece.)
I bet that the worst concerto ever is something that no-one (or almost
no-one here) has ever heard. That is, it was proabbly too bad to
record. Among well-known concertos, I would nominate the semi-pop
"Warsaw Concerto" (I think someone else has already mentioned that).
I've (perhaps fortunately) not heard the "Yellow River".
--
Al Eisner
San Mateo Co., CA
sechumlib
> I don't know -- I sort of like the Grieg, if I haven't heard it for a
> long time. (And after hearing Grieg's String Quartet in concert last
> year, I'd have to rate the Concerto as a masterpiece.)
Yup, pretty much all of Grieg is a catastrophe. I'll make an exception
for the Holberg Suite.
mo...@goldmail.de
> "Rugby" <steveha...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> just remembered...the WORST i have ever heard was the one by Aaron
> Copland... just never worked for me at all!
Depends on whether one had the chance of finding obscure Lps. THE
worst in my collection is the live performance recording of Miss Linda
Babits' own Piano Concerto "Western Star" on the Salt Lake City based
label from ca. 1958. A close second is Francesco Mignone's Piano
Concerto on some South American label and a more than deserved third
place goes to the piling up of banalities in Ferde Grofe's Piano
Concerto played by Sanroma, the (tortured??) dedicatee.
Gerard
> On 2007-04-26 18:52:47 -0400, Al Eisner <eis...@slac.stanford.edu>
> said:
>
> > I don't know -- I sort of like the Grieg, if I haven't heard it for
> > a long time. (And after hearing Grieg's String Quartet in concert
> > last year, I'd have to rate the Concerto as a masterpiece.)
>
> Yup, pretty much all of Grieg is a catastrophe.
I disagree completely.
Just enjoyed Eva Knardhal's BIS recordings (the concerto is included).
Alan Cooper
@news.wanadoo.nl:
Compromise position: Grieg in large forms is mostly a catastrophe (including the Concerto
and the String Quartet, imo), but that's only a small percentage of his output. I love the
Lyric Pieces and many other piano works, choral music, songs, and incidental music.
Knardahl is terrific in the piano music, I think, but my all-time favorite Grieg disc is the
Bis version of Peer Gynt that has the incidental music integrated into a condensed version
of the play. Wonderful!
AC
sechumlib
> Compromise position: Grieg in large forms is mostly a catastrophe
> (including the Concerto
> and the String Quartet, imo), but that's only a small percentage of his
> output. I love the
> Lyric Pieces and many other piano works, choral music, songs, and
> incidental music.
> Knardahl is terrific in the piano music, I think, but my all-time
> favorite Grieg disc is the
> Bis version of Peer Gynt that has the incidental music integrated into
> a condensed version
> of the play. Wonderful!
To each his/her own.
sechumlib
>> <Pine.GSO.4.58.07...@flora05.slac.stanford.edu>,
>> eis...@slac.stanford.edu says...
>> Among well-known concertos, I would nominate the semi-pop
>> "Warsaw Concerto"
I wouldn't include the Warsaw in my definition of "concerto", despite
its name. It's just hyper-movie music.
Rugby
Liszt E Flat, Mendlessohn # 1, and both Dohanyis to the "awful" list.
sechumlib
> I must also add the Martucci # 2, Rota's,
> Liszt E Flat, Mendlessohn # 1, and both Dohanyis to the "awful" list.
I disagree, not very respectfully, on the Liszt and Mendelssohn.
Michael Schaffer
> Kerrison Spartan <kerrison126-spar...@yahoo.co.uk> appears to have caused the
> following letters to be typed in news:1177435254.159794.246000
> @r3g2000prh.googlegroups.com:
>
> > Have you ever heard any of Kurt Leimer's Piano Concertos ? He recorded his
> > 4th (he was the soloist) in New York with Stokowski and the Symphony of the
> > Air, in 1959, for the German 'Electrola' label and it's just ghastly,
> > starting off like "Chopsticks" arr. Bruckner and going downhill from there.
> > He also recorded two more of his concertos (one for the left hand alone)
> > with, of all conductors, Herbert von Karajan, and the Philharmonia, for the
> > same label. I've never heard that LP but rumour had it that Karajan's fee
> > for the sessions paid for a brand new aeroplane! One assumes from this that
> > Leimer had pots of cash.
>
> Concerto with Karajan, has lately been reissued on Colosseum Classics COL
> 9200.2,
Someody posted that on Operashare a while ago.
> coupled with Richard Strauss' "Panathenäenzug" (possibly the premiere
> recording of that work, although I don't want to pull a Waleson).
>
> --
> Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
> My personal home page --http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
> My main music page ---http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:46340526$0$15136$4c36...@roadrunner.com:
I agree with you; and I must also admit that the Martucci #2 is the only work
by that composer that I would ever wish to hear again (except for those
performances of his other works as conducted by Toscanini).
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
everett....@pxlfrm.cz
the 2nd would be a good runner up). Brilliantly written: true.
But from start to finish it's simply pornographic, satisfying the
perverted desires of voyeuristic audience members. It provides
an unequalled vehicle for a pianist to parade himself as the
aesthetic equivalent of a degraded and degradable sexual
object. It's one of the most culturally obscene pieces ever
written.
Everett Norcross
sechumlib
Why is that all so bad - assuming it's true?
O
Forget that Penthouse magazine, I'm a gettin' me one of the
Rockmaninoff CD's!
-Owen
JohnGavin
You lost me at the word "Easy". I knew right there that the rest of
the post wasn't worth reading.
Rob Lindauer
Yes, whatever gets you Rachs off....
--
Rob Lindauer - Please change "att" to "sbc" for my real email address
Simon Smith
> On Apr 29, 10:45 am, everett.norcr...@pxlfrm.cz wrote:
>
>> Worst piano concerto? Easy: the Rachmaninoff 3rd (although
>> the 2nd would be a good runner up). Brilliantly written: true.
>> But from start to finish it's simply pornographic, satisfying the
>> perverted desires of voyeuristic audience members. It provides
>> an unequalled vehicle for a pianist to parade himself as the
>> aesthetic equivalent of a degraded and degradable sexual
>> object. It's one of the most culturally obscene pieces ever
>> written.
>
> You lost me at the word "Easy". I knew right there that the rest of
> the post wasn't worth reading.
Quite so. By coincidence, I just listened to Thibaudet's recording of
the 3rd and was surprised by how much I enjoyed it. (Not that I have any
particular reason to assume it would be bad.)
I still think that the Tchaik 1 is one of the most appallingly crude
pieces of music I have ever come across, especially given its
unassailable foothold in the 'standard repertoire'. (On second thoughts,
those two things often go together.)
Simon
Michael Schaffer
Man, who fucked you in the ass? Was it your uncle or your father, or
one of the many "uncles" your mother kept bringing home? In any case,
can you put a plug in it? Thanks.
Richard Schultz
: Man, who fucked you in the ass? Was it your uncle or your father, or
: one of the many "uncles" your mother kept bringing home? In any case,
: can you put a plug in it? Thanks.
Ever the gentleman, I see. I wonder what the poor folk of the U.S.A. would
do if you hadn't emigrated there in order to show them what true culture
is like.
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"an optimist is a guy/ that has never had/ much experience"
yenda smejkal
>I must also add the Martucci # 2, Rota's,
> Liszt E Flat, Mendlessohn # 1, and both Dohanyis to the "awful" list.
>
but the dohnanyi nursery variations have to be my all time greatest
dislike...even more than the concerto by britten!
yenda smejkal
<everett....@pxlfrm.cz> wrote in message news:f12b16$uk7$1...@aioe.org...
the RAchmaninoff 3rd is the greatest masterpiece in piano literature - the
Prokofiev 2nd concerto is the only work which really challenges it...
I do with people would engage their brains before they write nonsense on
here!
Matthew B. Tepper
following letters to be typed in news:_GLZh.4499$%9.568@newsfe7-
gui.ntli.net:
Really? I think the Variations are a wonderful piece. Don't really know
the Britten, but now I suppose I must investigate!
JohnGavin
> <everett.norcr...@pxlfrm.cz> wrote in messagenews:f12b16$uk7$1...@aioe.org...
> > Worst piano concerto? Easy: the Rachmaninoff 3rd (although
> > the 2nd would be a good runner up). Brilliantly written: true.
> > But from start to finish it's simply pornographic, satisfying the
> > perverted desires of voyeuristic audience members. It provides
> > an unequalled vehicle for a pianist to parade himself as the
> > aesthetic equivalent of a degraded and degradable sexual
> > object. It's one of the most culturally obscene pieces ever
> > written.
>
> > Everett Norcross
>
> i have never read such diatribe!!!!!!
>
> the RAchmaninoff 3rd is the greatest masterpiece in piano literature -
No it's not.....why do people have to go to such extremes??
yenda smejkal
>> dislike...even more than the concerto by britten!
>
> Really? I think the Variations are a wonderful piece. Don't really know
> the Britten, but now I suppose I must investigate!
well it is subjective i suppose but i have never been able to warm to the
nursery variations to me they simply sound trite and just irritate,.
Britten i dont like at all really although the recording of the concerto by
andsnes does make a positive case for the music ithas to be said
yenda smejkal
"JohnGavin" <dag...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1178046339....@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
work - for one thing there is that assumption that a virtuosic work is a
kind of second class piece of music, but more than that there is the failure
to understand the complex structure and the sheer magnificence of the piece.
On one hand i do have to concede that music is to a certain point
subjective, there are those, for example who would consider mozart concerto
21 a 'great' piece of music...that is their concern and for another posting
i guess!
But it is one thing to not care for the RAchmaninoff 3rd as a personal
choice but there is no way anyone could even begin to challenge its
greatness.
I maintain my original statement that everett norcross has written diatribe
and has yet to engage their brain!
JohnGavin
> "JohnGavin" <dagd...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
You claimed it to be "the greatest masterpiece in the piano
literature". That just strikes me as a silly claim - one that even
Rachmaninoff would probably have a good laugh at (after feeling a bit
embarassed).
Ian Pace
is truly dreadful (Bolet used to play that), lacking even the charm and
brilliance of Scharwenka's concertos. I haven't heard it, but I'm told Chick
Corea's concerto would be a contender for this category :)
sechumlib
<yenda....@ntlworld.com> said:
> but the dohnanyi nursery variations have to be my all time greatest
> dislike...even more than the concerto by britten!
Again, as to the Dohnanyi I (not so respectfully) disagree.
sechumlib
<yenda....@ntlworld.com> said:
At least the Dohnanyi and Britten use the musical equivalents of
capital letters and punctuation in the correct places.
sechumlib
<yenda....@ntlworld.com> said:
> the RAchmaninoff 3rd is the greatest masterpiece in piano literature - the
> Prokofiev 2nd concerto is the only work which really challenges it...
Oh, come on. I can think of dozens of concertos I'd rather hear than
the Rach 3rd. Don't know the Prokofiev 2nd, but I do like the 1st and
3rd.
sechumlib
<yenda....@ntlworld.com> said:
> i beg to differ - the writer has simply no understanding of this great
> work - for one thing there is that assumption that a virtuosic work is a
> kind of second class piece of music, but more than that there is the failure
> to understand the complex structure and the sheer magnificence of the piece.
>
> On one hand i do have to concede that music is to a certain point
> subjective, there are those, for example who would consider mozart concerto
> 21 a 'great' piece of music...that is their concern and for another posting
> i guess!
>
> But it is one thing to not care for the RAchmaninoff 3rd as a personal
> choice but there is no way anyone could even begin to challenge its
> greatness.
>
> I maintain my original statement that everett norcross has written diatribe
> and has yet to engage their brain!
So you're telling us, in your somewhat illiterate way, that we HAVE to
agree with you that the Rach 3rd is the GREATEST EVER or we're
philistines writing diatribe? And that WE'RE the only ones being
subjective - you aren't?
JohnGavin
>
> - Show quoted text -
By the way, I've always been highly fond of the Rach #3 - but that's a
quite seperate issue.
yenda smejkal
"sechumlib" <sech...@liberal.net> wrote in message
news:4637a6c6$0$1381$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
typing test!
Perhaps you could be kind enough to stick to the point in hand!
yenda smejkal
well it is certainly one of the greatest - and of course no composer would
have considered his work the greatest ever written during his life time.
But the RAchmaninoff 3rd does deserve is place amongst the very greatest -
along as I mentioned, with the Prokofiev 2nd, which I remember Toradze said
in an interview was the greatest concerto of the 20th century. If this is
the case, the RAchmaninoff 3rd cant be far behind.
The real subjective question is whether these works of the 20th century are
greater than those works written before - that is of course a matter of
opinion - there is little on the same scale apart perhaps from the Brahms,
for virtuosity of course there are the Liszt and others, but for every
aspect of great music the Prokofiev 2 and Rachmaninoff 3 take some beating.
yenda smejkal
'illiterate'! The Rachmaninoff 3rd is arguably one of the greatest
concertos in the piano repertoire - subjective - well in a sense all this is
subjective.
As a side comment, as you are so up on the etiquette of typing, the use of
upper case words does denote shouting...not, I am sure, the impression you
were trying to convey!
yenda smejkal
listen to it personally or not!
If there are greater works than the Rachmaninoff 3 and Prokofiev 2 then I
should be interested to read the list...but if you have the Grieg in there
anywhere I very much doubt that I could contain my laughter!
Charles Milton Ling
Well, if we continue in that direction, Keith Emerson (whom I rather
enjoyed when he was doing what he was good at) wrote a piano concerto,
too. Rather than describe it, I shall be lazy and call it too bad for
words.
Greetings to all,
Charley
--
Charles Milton Ling
Vienna, Austria
yenda smejkal
"Ian Pace" <i...@ianpace.com> wrote in message
news:bANZh.3108$8E....@newsfe5-win.ntli.net...
Now this is interesting, as I had forgotten the Saint Saens 3. Of all his
piano concerti it is the most disappointing. It is not entirely unpleasant,
but it is weak compared to the others - at least that is my view.
Of course the Egyptian is a marvellous piece, and I listen to it often!
sechumlib
<yenda....@ntlworld.com> said:
> But the RAchmaninoff 3rd does deserve is place amongst the very greatest -
> along as I mentioned, with the Prokofiev 2nd, which I remember Toradze said
> in an interview was the greatest concerto of the 20th century. If this is
> the case, the RAchmaninoff 3rd cant be far behind.
This dialogue has bottomed out in total silliness.
sechumlib
<yenda....@ntlworld.com> said:
> Well first of all it has been a long time since I have been discribed as
> 'illiterate'!
I didn't "discribe" (i.e., DESCRIBE) YOU as illiterate. I said you were
writing "in your somewhat illiterate way", which has been demonstrated
in several posts in this thread.
sechumlib
<yenda....@ntlworld.com> said:
And why did you draw THAT conclusion?
sechumlib
<yenda....@ntlworld.com> said:
>
> "sechumlib" <sech...@liberal.net> wrote in message
> news:4637a724$0$1381$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
>> On 2007-05-01 14:31:47 -0400, "yenda smejkal" <yenda....@ntlworld.com>
>> said:
>>
>>> the RAchmaninoff 3rd is the greatest masterpiece in piano literature -
>>> the
>>> Prokofiev 2nd concerto is the only work which really challenges it...
>>
>> Oh, come on. I can think of dozens of concertos I'd rather hear than the
>> Rach 3rd. Don't know the Prokofiev 2nd, but I do like the 1st and 3rd.
>>
> The comment was on the 'greatness' of the work, not on whether you wanted to
> listen to it personally or not!
>
> If there are greater works than the Rachmaninoff 3 and Prokofiev 2 then I
> should be interested to read the list...but if you have the Grieg in there
> anywhere I very much doubt that I could contain my laughter!
Is this person a dodo, or not?
sechumlib
Actually, I suspect (without knowing) that you're not illiterate. I
think you simply don't care how accurate your grammar, punctuation and
spelling are, which is worse yet since it shows your lack of concern
for the people who have to read your diatribes.
JohnGavin
> "sechumlib" <sechum...@liberal.net> wrote in message
>
> If there are greater works than the Rachmaninoff 3 and Prokofiev 2 then I
> should be interested to read the list...but if you have the Grieg in there
> anywhere I very much doubt that I could contain my laughter!
I found this Jorge Bolet Masterclass on the Rachmaninoff #3 excellent
to watch. The students are, for the most part, very fine pianists,
and Bolet clearly knows the piece backwards and forwards! One of the
best masterclasses I have ever seen:
Here is part I of 5:
JohnGavin
CORRECTION: Part I of 12!